Calls & Texts Too old?

[new_rabbit]

So I met up with this girl at a party, we had a good vibe and I spoke with all her friends before finally suggesting we should hang out and taking her number.

Afterwards, I texted her the usual text which includes asking about her, telling about me and scheduling a meeting, to which she replied

> about next week I don't know, I have so many things to do, but none is planned, so I don't know when I'll be free or not

ok. No biggie, seems like she's fine with meeting overall. But then she asks me how old I am, to which I jokingly reply "don't worry I'm legal". She insists by saying "no but really" so I give her my age (25)

the conversation stops there, and 24hrs after I try to schedule again and get this response

[Her] You're kinda too old for me lol
My limit is 23
[me]: Hmm and what determines that limit?
[Me]: We're not going to get married when we meet eyes. I'm fine with whatever outcome, but I usually don't want to rule out before knowing the person
[Her]: Yeah but it doesn't matter for me
You can be the most amazing person ever but I just can't
Too much gap years

I don't really know what to say in response. Seems like she's interested but has this hardwired response. She's 18 going on 19 while I'm 25 going on 26.

What could be a good approach to resolve this?

 

[rockstar]

[Her] You're kinda too old for me lol
My limit is 23
[me]: Hmm and what determines that limit?
[Me]: We're not going to get married when we meet eyes. I'm fine with whatever outcome, but I usually don't want to rule out before knowing the person

I would have done a frame flip here instead. Like:

"Are you worried that I'll think you're too immature?"

You don't want to be defending/justifying yourself here. You want to flip the pressure back on her and let her to the explaining. I don't think that 25 vs 18 is an issue, so I'm not going to accept a girl framing that as a problem. Instead I'm going to imply that her thinking it's an issue is naive.


You could have used other frame control methods there too:

you: "Yeah, you're too young for me - I don't want to have to spend half of our hangout explaining to you how Santa isn't real"
her: "Lol, no, it's just that blah blah"
you: "Where would we even hang out anyway? Chuck e cheese?"
her: "omg, stoppp. I'm not a baby"
you: "I actually thought you seemed pretty cool and mature when we met at the party. So I'm a little surprised to hear you're so sheltered that you're scared to hang out with someone who's 25."
(maybe a bit too overt at the end, but the point is that you're the one evaluating her rather than trying to convince her)


But instead you start debating and let her dig her her heels in to the frame. Now it's harder to respond, because you already took her statement to seriously and made her frame stronger. So you need to send something a little more emotionally triggering

 

[Will_V]

I spoke with all her friends before finally suggesting we should hang out and taking her number.

Something tells me that her friends are somehow involved, directly or indirectly, in her reaction. For instance, since her friends all met you she might think they would see it as weird for her to date a significantly older guy. Or maybe one of her friends made a comment about you. Whatever the case is, meeting a girl's friends makes her much more self conscious about any issues that she might otherwise overlook, especially when she's younger, less independent, and more worried about fitting the norms.

Afterwards, I texted her the usual text which includes asking about her, telling about me and scheduling a meeting, to which she replied

> about next week I don't know, I have so many things to do, but none is planned, so I don't know when I'll be free or not

This is a very uninvested response and suggests she's already backing out, hence why I think something happened before that to make her change her mind on the whole thing.

Complaints about stuff like age are usually just an excuse when she's otherwise looking for a way to bail.

ok. No biggie, seems like she's fine with meeting overall.

Not exactly. She makes a generic disclaimer about having any free time in the near future. It could be true but usually it's not, girls who are keen will always have a slot or at least sound like they are trying to make one.

But then she asks me how old I am, to which I jokingly reply "don't worry I'm legal". She insists by saying "no but really" so I give her my age (25)

Again it's another sign that she's uninvested - it's very unlikely that she's there thinking 'I am so ready to meet this guy, but I just really need to know his age first'. People's attention and perceptions are dominated by their emotions - when she wants something she skips right past all the problems, and when she doesn't, her mind starts looking for things to question and ways to rationalize backing out.

the conversation stops there, and 24hrs after I try to schedule again and get this response

[Her] You're kinda too old for me lol
My limit is 23

This is bullshit, the idea that you being two years older than her 'limit' would make her reject you 'even if you're the most amazing person ever' is just pure nonsense. She's just gotten the number you gave, subtracted 2 and thrown that out as her Final Limit.

How are you going for the close? Not sure it would make so much of a difference here but if you are pushing too hard without creating rapport it could contribute to a reaction like this.

[me]: Hmm and what determines that limit?

Not the best way to proceed, never go straight to a negotiation on something like that, the moment you say something like that she prepares to defend and rationalize the decision (which is the last thing you want) since she knows you're going to be trying to convince her otherwise. Teasing/joking is by far the better option here.

[Me]: We're not going to get married when we meet eyes. I'm fine with whatever outcome, but I usually don't want to rule out before knowing the person

Not too bad, the frame is the right one but it's still a bit negotiating, maybe something a bit more direct and playful would work a bit better. I would go for something like 'hey don't jump the gun we're just getting to know eachother'.

[Her]: Yeah but it doesn't matter for me
You can be the most amazing person ever but I just can't
Too much gap years

Yeah she's defending a predetermined position. For whatever reason she's already convinced that she has to bail, but it's not clear it has anything to do with her view of your age. It could be that, but if so I would bet it has more to do with what her friends think of your age than what she does.

I don't really know what to say in response. Seems like she's interested but has this hardwired response. She's 18 going on 19 while I'm 25 going on 26.

What could be a good approach to resolve this?

If you aren't going to meet her again, it's probably done imo. If you'll run into her again the best way is to just back off trying to close, maybe try to build up some kind of intrigue or emotional response so that next time you meet you can spin that up a bit. Like 'ok cool I understand it might seem a lot for you since you're just a spring chicken but I think we vibe' or something like that - and then next time you meet you can tease her about being a spring chicken or whatever.

For her to cross whatever boundary she's set up for herself she has to have enough of an emotional response to you that she ends up ignoring it, no amount of rationalization is going to work.

 

[new_rabbit]

@rockstar @Will_V those are very good analyses and suggestions! Unfortunately, I've already tried something else after reading @James Cruse's guide and fumbling with the messages sent so far..


[Me] Well I usually date 20-27
[Her] So you see
[Me] Yet...
[Me] Part of me still wants to get to know who this Italian girl is before she's out of the country
[Me] Still thinking about it tho

I take it from it is pretty much done atm unless I get "an emotional response" but I don't really know what it means and how to do it. In any case the chances of bumping into her are pretty much non existent.
I'll still try the "do you think you're too immature?" Approach because there's nothing left to lose (tbh usually girls just ghost me if they're not interested so the fact she's replying at all still gives me a smidge of hope)

 

[Chase]

@new_rabbit,

Good analyses and suggestions from @rockstar and @Will_V here.

As they pointed out, you dipped into persuading/convincing, which is a kiss of death for attraction.

Any time you feel like trying to convince/haggle on a girl's standards, gotta stop yourself and reassess.

First thing to point out here:

[Her] You're kinda too old for me lol

"kinda", "lol"... these are "I'm trying to take the edge off" prevarications. You get these when girls are telling you something they think you might dislike, but they still care about your opinion to some degree.

Objections aren't great, but prevaricating objections are different from total shut-downs (i.e., "Sorry, too old for me").

Personally, with any kind of objection like this, my preference is just to troll the girl on the silliness of whatever her supposed standards are:

HER: You're kinda too old for me lol​

HER: My limit is 23​

YOU: That is a serious problem indeed​

YOU: You could get ejected from the sorority over that ​

HER: I'm not in a sorority lol​

YOU: Uh-oh... what other limits have you broken to get kicked out?​

HER: Haha ummmm let me see...​

YOU: Sheesh, there's a whole list of them​

HER: Haha​

YOU: It's a good thing I am too ancient for you​

YOU: I am getting the sense you would complicate my awesome life​

HER: Oh I would​

Just get a little banter like that going to take the edge off the 'rejection' and leave her buzzing with a fun text message flirtation.

You can quit responding once the mood is positive and there's nothing more productive to say right in the moment.

Then a few days later you just ask her out again, and flip the frame on her:

YOU: Hey Kara, hope the anthropology project went well. Let me know when you're free for a bite or a drink this week or next​

YOU: But as friends only (age gap; I need someone a little more grown for "more than just friends" )​

Then if you get her to meet up just keep escalating then backing off while pressing her on it:

"It's a good thing you're too young for me because I can tell you're trouble."
"Man, if you were a little more grown we could be a great team."
"You and I would really get along if you were just a little more mature."

Just leave the frame flipped and troll her with it until she can't stand it anymore and has to prove to you how 'grown' she is (by making moves on you).

Chase

 

[rockstar]

This is a very uninvested response and suggests she's already backing out, hence why I think something happened before that to make her change her mind on the whole thing.

Complaints about stuff like age are usually just an excuse when she's otherwise looking for a way to bail.

^Yeah, I meant to mention this when I replied. She was already not compliant, and then OP kept pushing for the meetup (bad) before the age excuse came out anyway. It sounded like it was already a losing battle

 

[new_rabbit]

^Yeah, I meant to mention this when I replied. She was already not compliant, and then OP kept pushing for the meetup (bad) before the age excuse came out anyway. It sounded like it was already a losing battle

What's the correct response in such cases then? Backing out and trying to build rapport by just chatting?

 

[James Cruse]

Her] You're kinda too old for me lol
My limit is 23
[me]: Hmm and what determines that limit?
[Me]: We're not going to get married when we meet eyes. I'm fine with whatever outcome, but I usually don't want to rule out before knowing the person
[Her]: Yeah but it doesn't matter for me
You can be the most amazing person ever but I just can't

The time to use the re-frame was immediately after she said the “you’re kind too old for me lol”.

You bought into her frame like it meant something and then logically tried to question it and then invested alot into what she said.

In this text conversation - it should have been re-framed immediately as:

“Yeah, you’re right. I usually date women who are (age) - (age) (older than her). You may be abit young for me. But we’ll see . . “

This casually dismisses her frame and introduces your own qualifying frame to her.

If she then began to buy into your frame and you got some momentum with her compliance & investment following this - then you could soft close her for a date later.

Realistically, you should have qualified her on her age in person - when you first met her.
You should have qualified her in general when you met her in person, which I’m guessing you didn’t do.

My friend recently was asking my advice on a very similar situation:

my friend got approached by a girl & her friend at a club, she’s was interested, they kissed alot, danced together, went to a different club, spent hours together at these clubs, her logistics weren’t good (with her friend, apparently) so they exchanged numbers for a date next week at the end of the night.

They both proceed to text on the weekend and he asks her on date easrly week, she says yes to the date.
Then shortly after she agreed to the date, she randomly brings up his age to say “you’re too old for me” (he wasn’t & she wasn’t too young).

The issue was never his age - it was that he didn’t competantly or thoroughly seduce her when he was with her in person.

She’d also qualified him on his age when they met at the club, and she had no issues with his age then and never mentioned it again throughout the hours they spent together

To summarise:

I suspect your in person seduction was weak and when you asked her for some compliance and investment in text for an in-person meet - she just used whatever logical objection she could find (due to her lack of interest) to plausably deny why she had been wasting your time for attention, but had no interest in taking anything further + she could excuse her poor time-wasting behaviour to still continue believing (to herself) that she’s not a flighty inconsistant person who needs to get attention from men she has no real interest in.

Most guys think they have poor text game skills because that’s where alot of their rejection happens but actually: women use texting to reject men from a (non-threatening) safe & non-confrontational distance - rather than risk her physical safety, awkwardness or confrontation in person by rejecting you.

This is why getting numbers for many guys starting out can be meaningless - women use it as a distance barrier to safely & non-confronationally reject men they’re not interested in + get those same men to end an in-person interaction using a phone number & a promise of a date they have no intention of ever going to - with the added bonus of ego-boosting/boredom busting attention they’ll get from you with your texting.