Problem with leading

Huge Jack Man

Space Monkey
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There’s this girl I’ve started talking to a couple weeks now and it’s been difficult leading her. We sleep together quite often and when it comes to sex I dominate her but in order aspects like where to go hangout or things to do and stuff she seems quite disinterested or she’ll act bored or she will tell me she doesn’t want to do any of that. But I remember her talking about her exes and how she liked them just taking her to places without her knowing where they’re going in the first place and just being spontaneous but when I try it with her she just rejects or turns me down. Is it that I’m not assertive or dominating enough? What practical stuff do y’all recommend for me to turn this around? I don’t have a car yet so I understand that’s what her exes have over me and bus rides might not be ideal but still. Her being this way it’s kinda making me feel less of myself and can’t tease her or flirt as hard because it’s like whatever I might bring up might get shut down
 
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Freakester

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She likes you as her toyboy and nothing else.
Either she doesn't want you to do the boyfriend dance because she is afraid she will end up falling for you or she doesn't see you that way.

Either way, just keep doing her and find other chicks for LTRs if you want one.
 

Huge Jack Man

Space Monkey
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She likes you as her toyboy and nothing else.
Either she doesn't want you to do the boyfriend dance because she is afraid she will end up falling for you or she doesn't see you that way.

Either way, just keep doing her and find other chicks for LTRs if you want one.
That’s the thing though she keeps asking me when am I gonna ask her to be my girlfriend. She randomly drops it in our convos sometimes
 

Freakester

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That’s the thing though she keeps asking me when am I gonna ask her to be my girlfriend. She randomly drops it in our convos sometimes
LOL, you are fucked. Not really, but sort of.

It could one of these three things since there is a lot of information we are missing. I could be totally wrong so feel free to take others advice.

1. She is auto-rejecting because you haven't asked her FORMALLY to be your girlfriend. She thinks you are playing her.
2. She doesn't like the activity you propose. She might not go bowling with you, but a movie date? Have you tried asking for different activities?
3. She is just testing you and see if you have fallen for her. In this case, if she wants to just fuck, she will dump you and move on.

do you want her as gf? If yes, just ask.
 

Will_V

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There’s this girl I’ve started talking to a couple weeks now and it’s been difficult leading her. We sleep together quite often and when it comes to sex I dominate her but in order aspects like where to go hangout or things to do and stuff she seems quite disinterested or she’ll act bored or she will tell me she doesn’t want to do any of that. But I remember her talking about her exes and how she liked them just taking her to places without her knowing where they’re going in the first place and just being spontaneous but when I try it with her she just rejects or turns me down. Is it that I’m not assertive or dominating enough? What practical stuff do y’all recommend for me to turn this around? I don’t have a car yet so I understand that’s what her exes have over me and bus rides might not be ideal but still. Her being this way it’s kinda making me feel less of myself and can’t tease her or flirt as hard because it’s like whatever I might bring up might get shut down

Sounds like your frame control isn't matching her expectations, and perhaps her exes were a bit on the aggressive/controlling side.

Some girls act that way when they are looking to get put in their place or pushed away so they can start playing the kind of game that excites them. It might also mean that she finds your frame weak when you are bringing up these things. Maybe she really doesn't like the fact you don't have a car - I mean, spontaneous excursions to random places feel a lot different on the bus compared to riding alone with you while you drive her to some unknown destination.

Personally I'd push her on it a bit, tell her I don't like the attitude and to tell me what's really up. Get her to explain herself, bring out what she really doesn't like, and be ready to come back with some solid frame control.

Don't do that with a soft or reactive frame though, or it could easily blow up in your face.
 

Huge Jack Man

Space Monkey
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Sounds like your frame control isn't matching her expectations, and perhaps her exes were a bit on the aggressive/controlling side.

Some girls act that way when they are looking to get put in their place or pushed away so they can start playing the kind of game that excites them. It might also mean that she finds your frame weak when you are bringing up these things. Maybe she really doesn't like the fact you don't have a car - I mean, spontaneous excursions to random places feel a lot different on the bus compared to riding alone with you while you drive her to some unknown destination.

Personally I'd push her on it a bit, tell her I don't like the attitude and to tell me what's really up. Get her to explain herself, bring out what she really doesn't like, and be ready to come back with some solid frame control.

Don't do that with a soft or reactive frame though, or it could easily blow up in your face.
Sounds like your frame control isn't matching her expectations, and perhaps her exes were a bit on the aggressive/controlling side.

Some girls act that way when they are looking to get put in their place or pushed away so they can start playing the kind of game that excites them. It might also mean that she finds your frame weak when you are bringing up these things. Maybe she really doesn't like the fact you don't have a car - I mean, spontaneous excursions to random places feel a lot different on the bus compared to riding alone with you while you drive her to some unknown destination.

Personally I'd push her on it a bit, tell her I don't like the attitude and to tell me what's really up. Get her to explain herself, bring out what she really doesn't like, and be ready to come back with some solid frame control.

Don't do that with a soft or reactive frame though, or it could easily blow up in your face.
Your replies are always so insightful @Will_V. I think I might have an idea on what she really doesn’t like because I remember the other day I asked her to book a doctor’s appointment for me whenever she uses that route because she’s closer to the doc. She then replied that why don’t I just call the office. She added that she has never been in the situation where she has to be doing everything like calling for appointments and making plans. I personally let her do it because I thought I was getting compliance from her but i guess I overdid it and now she doesn’t see me as a leading type. What is the balance where I can let her do stuff but still less? If I start to be more leading right away and taking her to Uber rides to spontaneously to places, will she still see me as weak since I never was doing that?
 

Will_V

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Your replies are always so insightful @Will_V. I think I might have an idea on what she really doesn’t like because I remember the other day I asked her to book a doctor’s appointment for me whenever she uses that route because she’s closer to the doc.

OK this one right here smells like a problem. Here you are asking for compliance (and not the sexy kind) while highlighting the fact you don't have a car.

I wouldn't be surprised if that rankled her and now she isn't interested on riding the bus with you.

She added that she has never been in the situation where she has to be doing everything like calling for appointments and making plans. I personally let her do it because I thought I was getting compliance from her but i guess I overdid it and now she doesn’t see me as a leading type. What is the balance where I can let her do stuff but still less? If I start to be more leading right away and taking her to Uber rides to spontaneously to places, will she still see me as weak since I never was doing that?

When girls tell you this sort of stuff about themselves you have to take them at their word. One of my exes was like this. She loved impromptu sex in the morning or middle of the night, and would tell me on multiple occasions how she liked the idea of being woken up and led somewhere without knowing where she was going. Very adventurous (although quick to be upset when anything went wrong! lol), loved travelling and experiencing new things, and of course loved to be dominated in bed.

She also gave me no end of bs when I failed to organize or plan anything properly. I had to throw her out of my place one time when she got out of hand - she came back in a lot better mood shortly after.

These kind of girls will eat you for breakfast if you don't have a) very good frame control and b) the willingness to lead all the time and be a dominant force in their lives. For them, the strength of your presence, the firmness of your handling of them (without being reactive at all!), and your willingness to take things out of their hands and present them with a simple, satisfying path to take is what feels reassuring. I believe it comes mainly from having a somewhat doted on relationship with her father.

In my experience these girls are can be quite emotional and bad at conflict resolution, but of course they are lots of fun to be with.

As far as what you can do, all I can say is that you will need to have an iron frame, where you don't get upset but you are willing to come back firmly on stuff you don't like and put her in her place, and act all the time like everything is going exactly to plan, it's all under control, and that she'd better get in line - even if you're broke like I was, lol. It's not an easy place to be, but satisfying if you enjoy walking a fine line.

Can you please give an example or idea of what soft or reactive frame looks like?

OK let's take the example of the car. Let's say it upsets and annoys her that you don't have one. And you're in a conversation about going somewhere and she's acting like it's boring.

If you get at all whiny or needy (soft) and say something like "Why don't you like XYZ? I'm trying to find something fun for us to do!" that's a weak frame. Especially when body language and tone is also weak. She will loathe you for that.

A firm, strong frame would be something like:

Her: "That sounds boring."
You (frowning): "I don't like that attitude. I'm not your tour guide to sit here coming up with activities for you to do. I want to go and have fun doing XYZ with you, but not if you're going to be unpleasant. How about you tell me what's really the problem?"

With a bit of an edge in your voice, and all your nonverbals on point, that might work out well. What you want her to do is realize that OK, you might not be perfect, but you aren't putting up with any bs. She'll still be able to feel safe with you.

And especially if she then says something that's hard to take about your car or your means or even about you, you cannot get upset and start trying to justify yourself. The frame you want to convey to her is like ok you can say what you want, but in my world I'm king and this is what's happening and that's that, tag along or leave.
 

Huge Jack Man

Space Monkey
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When girls tell you this sort of stuff about themselves you have to take them at their word. One of my exes was like this. She loved impromptu sex in the morning or middle of the night, and would tell me on multiple occasions how she liked the idea of being woken up and led somewhere without knowing where she was going. Very adventurous (although quick to be upset when anything went wrong! lol), loved travelling and experiencing new things, and of course loved to be dominated in bed.

She also gave me no end of bs when I failed to organize or plan anything properly. I had to throw her out of my place one time when she got out of hand - she came back in a lot better mood shortly after.

These kind of girls will eat you for breakfast if you don't have a) very good frame control and b) the willingness to lead all the time and be a dominant force in their lives. For them, the strength of your presence, the firmness of your handling of them (without being reactive at all!), and your willingness to take things out of their hands and present them with a simple, satisfying path to take is what feels reassuring. I believe it comes mainly from having a somewhat doted on relationship with her father.

In my experience these girls are can be quite emotional and bad at conflict resolution, but of course they are lots of fun to be with.

As far as what you can do, all I can say is that you will need to have an iron frame, where you don't get upset but you are willing to come back firmly on stuff you don't like and put her in her place, and act all the time like everything is going exactly to plan, it's all under control, and that she'd better get in line - even if you're broke like I was, lol. It's not an easy place to be, but satisfying if you enjoy walking a fine line.
Wow it almost sounds like the same girl lol. This is very helpful. One last thing though. How do I establish that firm presence in our day to day interactions and not only when she’s being defiant? And also how do i do the handling when I’ve already acted weak?
 

Will_V

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Wow it almost sounds like the same girl lol. This is very helpful. One last thing though. How do I establish that firm presence in our day to day interactions and not only when she’s being defiant? And also how do i do the handling when I’ve already acted weak?

By the way, it sounds like she already is your girlfriend. If you are sleeping with her all the time and doing day to day activities at some level, that's the definition of a girlfriend to me. And it's not surprising she's brought up the 'girlfriend' label already.

And that also reveals a bit more of what's going on - if she is for all intents and purposes your girlfriend already, and there are things she's not happy about, such as your lack of car right now (or other things), guess what she's going to do? She's going to start being difficult and testy, because she's grappling with the idea of submitting fully to a man who isn't in the position she would like him to be in.

Given you've known her for 2 weeks, if I read your OP correctly, that's a pretty damn fast escalation of the relationship, and it's going to put pressure on you and release a lot of the pressure she might have felt to prove herself to you. Which means trouble for you. Might want to slow down a little.
...

As for establishing the right frame, you'll have to give me some examples for me to be specific. But I'll try and make some general points.

The main thing is really to have absolute certainty of yourself, and the willingness to let her go (or at least leave her to sulk) if she causes too much trouble and doesn't follow your lead.


First is conflict resolution or dealing with problems together. The way I learned how to do this (adapted from Girls Chase) is to have the frame of:

1) I'm always willing to listen to you and reiterate or update my frame if you come to me calmly with any problems, but I won't tolerate bad attitude.
2) <Take responsibility if I've done something wrong> I didn't do things right that time, but I know what mistakes I made and I've fixed it (and make sure you have!). That's all there is to it.
3) You can give your input but the ultimate decisions are mine.
4) If you don't like what's on offer, you're free to leave.

The way I did this was to always encourage her to talk to me about problems (since she was fairly emotional and bottled things up), and to always reward her with some attention and reassurance if she did it while behaving well, but if she was acting up (or out of control) I would simply tell her she was being unpleasant and ridiculous and end the interaction.


When it comes to everyday things, I don't know what to say. I'm a pretty chill and independent sort of person, but if there's something I don't like I'll say so. I don't expect or need her to be around all the time, and for me quality time together is sex, post-sex conversation, or adventures. My ex here was already occupied with study and work, so that took care of her attention and gave me plenty of time alone, which I like.


Overall the attitude here is one of complete certainty in yourself as a leader of your own life (to which she is trying to attach herself). A leader doesn't ever put anything above his mission. That's what makes him fit to lead, he can and will sacrifice everything for the mission, including himself. The mission here is your life. She is your lieutenant. If she isn't with you, it's not going to work. You'll work with her to solve problems, but only to a point. If she has to go she has to go.

And you really have to see things that way, it can't be a facade. It's in my personality to be in the drivers seat, to be setting frames, making decisions, strategizing, and expecting loyalty. If that's you, but perhaps you fell into bad habits, I'd suggest setting straight your identity, for your own sake. And if it's not, well you have to consider whether she's compatible.


Another point: you said before you wanted to get her to do things for you. Maybe your girl is different, but while my ex was always keen to be my lieutenant on adventures or enterprises, she wasn't so content doing menial tasks. I don't know if that could have been changed, maybe yes, maybe no. But I wouldn't count on it.

This means that the best way to make her happy was to do adventures or ventures together. When it came to my business, she was pretty happy to do what she could to help. When it came to sailing together, which we both enjoyed, she was very happy to be taught the ropes and to be given a role (as long as I was there to handle it if anything went wrong!). When it came to camping together, she was great and did her part well.

But when it came to more menial tasks, it was hard to keep her motivated and she was frequently unhappy about things (though everything she did, she did well, and I always praised her on it). What she wanted really was excitement and new experiences without too much responsibility, and the feeling of being a queen with her king.

This is again where you have to be very clear to yourself on what you want, and not promote a girl fast who you aren't really sure if you are compatible with.

Hope this helps!
 

TomInHo

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I think the best course of action is keep her as an FB like @topcat said and look for a girl that likes doing activities like you

And if she drops hints about wanting to be your GF, honestly just shut it down

Tell her you enjoy the physical aspect of your relationship but are not sure about the other stuff because she doesn’t seem to like the do the things you want to do together

It’s a win win for you. Because she either shapes up when she realizes that her being boring is blowing it with you

OR

You find a girl that’s down with what you want off rip without all this silly back and forth
 
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