Perceived Higher Value Or Mindset

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
41
Hi

Just thought I'd segway from my field report here because it just dawned on me that a direct question may prevent unnecessary mistakes from occuring. So the deal is there is this cute lady who moved onto my apartment complex last week. She has a son who is at least 10 years old so she is a woman in her late 20's, maybe even early 30's. There is a good possibility she is a older than me by a few months to a few years (less than 8 years I suspect though).

Value/Perceived Value Roundup

In my field report I named her Clarise so I'll give a quick summary of what are my concerns as I interact with her:

- She owns a car (I think a Honda mini car). I don't own a car, in fact I ride my bicycle
- She moved into the vacant apartment side which has 1 bedroom, 1 living room area (which she has converted to a bedroom area hence no has living room area now)
- She has 2 king size beds one for her and the other for her son's room and a ton of furniture. I have a twin sized bed, desk, 1 chair and a wardrobe (very nice room setup but small area though as I outlined in the Mini Bachelor Pad Tips post.
- She a large fridge (with ice maker) and a nice kitchen area (large dishdrain, cupboards, chairs). I on the other hand do not have a kitchen area and frankly I rarely cook so I only have a plug in stove which I can easily store under my bed when not in use. And I only use it once per week for the most part.
- She has a job which I can tell pays way more than I currently earn. Based on her entire setup, I'd guess she earns double or triple what I currently earn.

......................................

Maybe I'm just overthinking stuff. But whenever I meet a woman who has more going for themselves than I do, I immediately proceed with caution. It's a big insecurity and while this lady Clarise has been very nice since meeting me, I never really know how she perceives this. So while I am a very ambitious person (who could very well live a more modest life, I've chosen a more minimal lifestyle for now... but there is a twist. Because if it does turn out that this woman is around my same age and she has accomplished far more than I have, I'm going to feel insecure while interacting with her.

On the flip side, I've heard of millionaires who were minimalists and no one could tell the difference.

But in the case of speaking to women, there might be a caveat i.e.

- If I walked around like a bum, no fashion sense, then a woman can take that at face value to say this man is possibly low value
- If I choose not to take haircuts, then a woman would be right to assume I don't take care about my appearance. It does not matter if my reasoning is I'm saving $50 per haircut / $200 per month to invest in some new business. Yeah ambitious but only I know that, she does not.

So same with these 2 examples above, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience not caring about perceived value vs. real actual value when dating women who seem to have it more figured out in life.

Thanks

PeacockMan
 

topcat

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
715
- She owns a car (I think a Honda mini car). I don't own a car, in fact I ride my bicycle
- She moved into the vacant apartment side which has 1 bedroom, 1 living room area (which she has converted to a bedroom area hence no has living room area now)
- She has 2 king size beds one for her and the other for her son's room and a ton of furniture. I have a twin sized bed, desk, 1 chair and a wardrobe (very nice room setup but small area though as I outlined in the Mini Bachelor Pad Tips post.
- She a large fridge (with ice maker) and a nice kitchen area (large dishdrain, cupboards, chairs). I on the other hand do not have a kitchen area and frankly I rarely cook so I only have a plug in stove which I can easily store under my bed when not in use. And I only use it once per week for the most part.
- She has a job which I can tell pays way more than I currently earn. Based on her entire setup, I'd guess she earns double or triple what I currently earn
None of this has anything to do with your “value” and women don’t care, unless you do..

Focus on the sorts of experiences you can provide her conversationally & sexually..

This article was written for you.

To add a personal anecdote, i’ve never owned a car, can’t even drive and for years fucked girls (some of them quite well-to-do) in a tiny room with mold growing in it and poor air circulation
 

ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
1,673
There is value in being a side dick, too.

Are you trying to get her to be your long term girlfriend or just have some fun?

Because it seems you’re psyching over the former which doesn’t help either.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
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Oct 9, 2012
Messages
5,558
This is oneitis, homie. You’re fixated on one woman who lives next door to you and analyzing and overanalyzing everything about her to the point of exhaustion despite having no actionable data on her.

Actionable data:

  • Does she give you approach invitations?
  • How does she respond to your compliance tests?
  • When you asked her out, what did she say?
  • How quick did she agree to a date over texting?
  • On the date, how responsive was she to your moves?
  • Were you able to pull on the first date?
  • Did she give you any LMR, and if so, how much?

Until you get any actionable data with her, you can spend a lifetime turning over “the details” in your head trying to guess what she might or might not want with you and you will never know (see: mental masturbation).

Anyway, I will give you another perspective: she’s a single mother. She could have half of Jeff Bezos’s fortune and you’d still be higher value than her unless you were a meth head. Maybe even then if you were a meth head who cleaned up good!

So go ask her out, and if she says no, shrug it off and go ask out 10 more women.

Chase
 

Hue

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
1,453
Hi

Just thought I'd segway from my field report here because it just dawned on me that a direct question may prevent unnecessary mistakes from occuring. So the deal is there is this cute lady who moved onto my apartment complex last week. She has a son who is at least 10 years old so she is a woman in her late 20's, maybe even early 30's. There is a good possibility she is a older than me by a few months to a few years (less than 8 years I suspect though).

Value/Perceived Value Roundup

In my field report I named her Clarise so I'll give a quick summary of what are my concerns as I interact with her:

- She owns a car (I think a Honda mini car). I don't own a car, in fact I ride my bicycle
- She moved into the vacant apartment side which has 1 bedroom, 1 living room area (which she has converted to a bedroom area hence no has living room area now)
- She has 2 king size beds one for her and the other for her son's room and a ton of furniture. I have a twin sized bed, desk, 1 chair and a wardrobe (very nice room setup but small area though as I outlined in the Mini Bachelor Pad Tips post.
- She a large fridge (with ice maker) and a nice kitchen area (large dishdrain, cupboards, chairs). I on the other hand do not have a kitchen area and frankly I rarely cook so I only have a plug in stove which I can easily store under my bed when not in use. And I only use it once per week for the most part.
- She has a job which I can tell pays way more than I currently earn. Based on her entire setup, I'd guess she earns double or triple what I currently earn.

......................................

Maybe I'm just overthinking stuff. But whenever I meet a woman who has more going for themselves than I do, I immediately proceed with caution. It's a big insecurity and while this lady Clarise has been very nice since meeting me, I never really know how she perceives this. So while I am a very ambitious person (who could very well live a more modest life, I've chosen a more minimal lifestyle for now... but there is a twist. Because if it does turn out that this woman is around my same age and she has accomplished far more than I have, I'm going to feel insecure while interacting with her.

On the flip side, I've heard of millionaires who were minimalists and no one could tell the difference.

But in the case of speaking to women, there might be a caveat i.e.

- If I walked around like a bum, no fashion sense, then a woman can take that at face value to say this man is possibly low value
- If I choose not to take haircuts, then a woman would be right to assume I don't take care about my appearance. It does not matter if my reasoning is I'm saving $50 per haircut / $200 per month to invest in some new business. Yeah ambitious but only I know that, she does not.

So same with these 2 examples above, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience not caring about perceived value vs. real actual value when dating women who seem to have it more figured out in life.

Thanks

PeacockMan

Helpful article here.

Perception of a guy having money doesn't not get that guy laid, and, may in fact hurt your chances.
 

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
41
This is oneitis, homie. You’re fixated on one woman who lives next door to you and analyzing and overanalyzing everything about her to the point of exhaustion despite having no actionable data on her.

Actionable data:

  • Does she give you approach invitations?
  • How does she respond to your compliance tests?
  • When you asked her out, what did she say?
  • How quick did she agree to a date over texting?
  • On the date, how responsive was she to your moves?
  • Were you able to pull on the first date?
  • Did she give you any LMR, and if so, how much?

Until you get any actionable data with her, you can spend a lifetime turning over “the details” in your head trying to guess what she might or might not want with you and you will never know (see: mental masturbation).

1. The only approach invitations I can recall based on this article are: requests for help. But at the same time this could also be a girl who is used to getting free stuff from men by being super nice. Since she has moved in, she has:

- Asked me to move in her washing machine and fridge (both of which the moving company could not figure out how to put in the house and I was able to put them in the house on my own... )
- Tonight at 12:28AM, she called me to say a rat was in her radio and I need to come quick to kill it. So I rush over there and it's a big excitment. After I help her with that I sit on her bed and I'm thinking to myself "do I escalate to kiss her" because she is just engaging me in random conversation. But then I don't and I leave her bedroom shortly thereafter and return to my bedroom where I am at now writing this.

2. Based on Compliance Tests for Attracting Women I would say no and that's because I have not asked

3. I have not asked her out in person as yet. However the 1st day she moved in she did hint that we would play a lot of games together e.t.c.

4. I need to update that field report I started. But in summary on Monday night we had a text conversation:

PeacockMan: What are your plans for Christmas?

Charise: Not one thing lol

PeacockMan: (shared my plans for Christmas to spend time with family). You cook very well I assume?

Charise: Lol you'll be the judge of that (laugh and monkey hold face emoji)

(Then she asks me to help her with moving her fridge to a different room because the door jams are too small for it to go in the kitchen and the moving company were too lazy to deal with it. So I go and help her. This is after 8pm now. By the time I meet her at her apartment door, she gives me permission to enter and says she is going in the road and will be back soon and she went in someone's car (I don't know if it is male/female driving and the relationship they are to her). So after I do that I go back to my bedroom on the complex and she texts me after 10pm

Charise: OMG Peacockman you're amazing....!!!!. Thank you sooo much!! You're a gem (emojis smile, diamond, 100%, tick)


PeacockMan: (responding to her text "you'll be the judge of that" I say) Sure, here's waht I'm thinking. How about on Christmas Eve we both buy something, anything and prepare dinner together? Then I'll be the judge (ranger emoji, devil emoji)

Charise: Ok I'll think about it. Sounds great

..............

This brings me back to the article https://www.girlschase.com/content/tactics-tuesdays-when-she-texts-you-well-see

From reading this, I believe the best option is to "Ignore and back burner her (don’t know her well / at all)" since I've only known her for 9 days.

So yeah, from those questions, that is where I am stuck. I think I'm fucking up big time by coming across as a handy man instead of getting the right signals. And to be honest while she did call me out of my bed about a rat after 12pm, I do not think she would lie about a rat just to get me in her bedroom. But she was super comfortable with me there. And I did not see it as appropriate to start kissing or escalating. I did not get that vibe at all. While she had on a blouse and a short tights, I did not get the "I called you over to fuck vibe".

I'm a bit stuck as to where to go from here as I do not want things to get weird between us. My plan however is to wait until Sunday to see if she does agree to us cooking dinner together and if she does not, I'll suggest something else.

As for the responses I got from Topcat and Hue thanks much gentlemen!

PeacockMan
 

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
41
Ok so the Christmas has been busy. But since my last post I've realized a few things off / things that make me realize it is not worth the effort:

Off Things

- She had a contractor gentleman come to her room to install the AC and do other fixes and I overheard her several times shouting at the guy and calling him names such as "idiot", "worthless". From my understanding the guy is also at fault for taking much longer to get the work done, however I feel her reactions standing over the guy as he did the work and name calling was a bit excessive.

- I don't really dig girls with lots of tattoos and seeing her around the house in the past week, she has a lot of tattoos on her ass, back, legs and I do not dig girls with lots of tattoos for anything long term. Yeah maybe a fling here or there, I think tattoos are cute, but they don't turn me on to say "oh she could be my girlfriend".

- She is a reformed party girl. I found out when one of my neighbors on the complex, (who I'm cool with) he made general conversation and she started talking about how she used to do a lot of party promotions.

- She is a bit aggressive and demandish in conversation. For example she asks me to do her a favor to carry her washing machine around the back of the house and her text message is

"Please to carry the stove around the back for me. I need it to go inside now man it's been out there far too long now. Take it around the back and will have you put it in when I come".

I did call her out on it by saying "hey can you send a voice message please as I don't fully understand." My response was to better understand if she was talking down to me or simply frustrated of not having another man around to help and her wanting to cook food. She did delete the message and did admit it looks a bit demandish. So I don't think she means any harm but it's very aggressive than I am used to.

There was even an incident today where I lent her a phone charger and when she finished using it, she sent me a text "please come to the front for the charger". Maybe I am overreading this, but she asked me a favor so why do I need to walk to the front of the property to collect something she asked me for?

- I've noticed that most of the times she calls/texts me it is to help her with something: kill a rat, borrow something, help her move something

- As Chase said about her having a son, not only does she has 1 son, but she has 2 sons and is not married. A few days ago we had where she threw all men in the "all men are trash" category. Not having 1 care in the world that she is talking to a guy right then and there. So in other words she is talking down to all men or she does not have any romantic interest in me or she has an archtype of men she typically goes after and that is not me.


Not Worth The Effort

- As for my experience in dating, I am honestly not skilled enough as yet with women to know how to interact with a single Mom with all of the things I listed above.

- I do not know what the dating dynamics would look like and to be frank I like my personal space. She likes too close that it could honestly fuck up my own mentality if things went down hill. Hypothically me and her started dating then we broke up, I would not want to see another guy coming in the house and fucking with her. I prefer that happen with a chick I do not have to see on a daily basis if we do break up so I can have peace of mind.

- If we were to start dating, it would feel too much like a LTR from the get go. From going on dates, to walking into her on a Saturday morning as we both do house chores. Oh fuck no! Then as I cut the yard, there she is probably on her veranda with her sons. Fuck no!

- Whenever I ask for compliance to spend more time with her, she has not given an answer to confirm interest. The casual date invites thus far are:

  • Let's go outside on a Sunday when the ice cream man is coming around then chill afterwards. She went on the road and didn't text back to say anything
  • Last week I invited her to watch a movie and she did not get back to that message. In fact she overlooked that message to ask me to help her with something
  • Today she called me to borrow the charger and she came around to my room for it. She is free for the rest of the day but when I casually invited her to play a game of cards or do some other activity later on this evening, she didnt respond.

So I think this report is closed on this chick and on to the next girl it is for me.

PeacockMan
 

gameboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
488
I bet 99% there was no rat. You had your chance there...

But it's good you're not hung up on this girl anymore. You could still do something casual with her if the opportunity arises. Who knows maybe there's another rat... ;)
 

ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
1,673
Ok so the Christmas has been busy. But since my last post I've realized a few things off / things that make me realize it is not worth the effort:

Sounds like you’re deep into auto-rejection to me.

But anyway, I agree she doesn’t sound like girlfriend material.

However, why did you not notice these things before? (the tattoos are very obvious ones)
And, why not just being a side dick?
 

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
41
I bet 99% there was no rat. You had your chance there...

But it's good you're not hung up on this girl anymore. You could still do something casual with her if the opportunity arises. Who knows maybe there's another rat... ;)

What got me confused if there was a rat or not was she was banging her radio with a broom. She almost destroyed the radio over it. So when the radio was outside, I offered the opportunity for her to sleep in my room for the night and she said no.

I'm going to tie in what you said with what @ulrich has to say as well.


But anyway, I agree she doesn’t sound like girlfriend material.

However, why did you not notice these things before? (the tattoos are very obvious ones)

The 1st day I met her she had on long work attire and the only thing I saw was a tattoo on her upper thigh. And other days she had on a big pajamas until... Christmas day for the 1st time she was barely dressed and I saw her entire ass and lower back covered in tattoos.

Tying this back with @gameboy advise, I've noticed something strange with Charise

She gets super sweet and nice when she wants something from me.

But occasionally gets a bit stern / seemingly annoyed when I ask for compliance. Yeah she will do what I ask but it seems like a bother to her at times. When she still had the fridge, washing machine, and stove to come in the house she seemed very warm and receptive asking me for help. But since they've come in the house, it seems her willingness to comply has gone down.

Come to think of it, I believe I am part to blame as well and it reminds me of the article


To be honest here are the mistakes I probably made:

- When she invited me in her room because of the rat, maybe I should have offered to sleep in her bed and keep her safe for the night and make it fun (we probably would have fucked then)

- There are times she seemed to be flirting and I'd share some information with her and her response would be "boy you are lying lol". And that threw me off. I am not used to sharing information with women and then they immediately respond by saying "you are lying". She does it a lot during conversation sometimes with a smile and other times no smile that I wonder if this is all flirting or when she is actually serious. So that has caused me to double guess my flirting and honestly my conversation has not been as smooth and flirtatious with her as it is with most other women. But as I think about it more now, I do remember some movies where the girls who were most attracted to guys would say the craziest things "boy you so stupid", "I hate you dwl lol", "boy you lying (smirk)". But again I don't have any experience interacting with women who communicate that way so I've not been at the best of my game.


Sounds like you’re deep into auto-rejection to me.
And, why not just being a side dick?

Yes I'm in a bit of auto rejection because there are other crazy moments happening outside of this chick that is pulling my attention away from being able to just focus and flirt. And also because I'm not used to women with her communication style.

Unfortunately I don't know the steps to bounce back from this situation to being her side dick. Is there an article I could read?
 

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
41
And, why not just being a side dick?

On a separate note, she is giving me mixed signals to her level of interest and I'm starting to wonder if she is in auto rejection because I did not look to fuck during the times she invited me in her apartment to fix stuff or bring her stuff.

Ok my brain is spinning to this article

https://www.girlschase.com/comment/842 on How to Tell a Girl is Horny

So here would be my last test. I'm thinking the next time I see her in person to say something like

"Hey Charise I am curious are you single? (pause and wait for a response). The reason I am asking is you are an amazing gal and I was a bit hesistant to let you know since we are neighbors but I do fancy you a lot and I'd like to take you out on a date sometime soon (smile). Even though we are neighbors"

Would saying something like that in person or via text be a good idea?
 

gameboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
488
I wouldn't bother asking her for a date given that you've been in her bedroom at night already and nothing happened.

Just be more sexual with her in general when you see her.

To be honest, you are giving me serious nice guy vibes. Which is great, you sound like an awesome dude, but it doesn't get women wet unfortunately. If you can change that you might have a chance. But I agree this girl doesn't seem to be LTR material, so if something happens make sure it's casual and don't get hung up on her.
 

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
41
I wouldn't bother asking her for a date given that you've been in her bedroom at night already and nothing happened.

Just be more sexual with her in general when you see her.

To be honest, you are giving me serious nice guy vibes. Which is great, you sound like an awesome dude, but it doesn't get women wet unfortunately. If you can change that you might have a chance. But I agree this girl doesn't seem to be LTR material, so if something happens make sure it's casual and don't get hung up on her.

Understood! And key note you made there "when I see her".

What I did a few minutes ago was to block her number and delete her name from my contacts so that she has zero ability to call me again to ask any favors.

I've silenced her number on Whatsapp so if she calls it goes unanswered. This step I believe will allow me to focus on other tasks or women while opeing the opportunity for our only interactions to be face to face when I see her around the apartment complex. If she asks why she cannot get through to me, I'll just give her the excuse "I've set my phone on a break so I rarely see calls/texts coming in". She'll get the idea that is she wants my non sexual attention, she better get sexual or find another man to do her handyman stuff.

PeacockMan
 

gameboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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488
Hmm not sure if blocking her is a good move. Seems a bit extreme to me unless you are really fed up with her and never want to see her again. But given that you are neighbours youre going to run into her anyway. So you dont want to seem butthurt.

Might be better to just "be busy", leave her calls unanswered for a day... Or even tell her straight up "no" once in a while when she asks for favors.

Assuming you still want something with this girl, it would be ideal if she would see you with another girl (preselection). or at least assume you are busy with another one.
 

ulrich

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
1,673
What I did a few minutes ago was to block her number and delete her name from my contacts so that she has zero ability to call me again to ask any favors.

Damn, man. You’re balls deep into auto-rejection.

I think the best thing you can do here is stop focusing on this woman and date other ones.
 

PeacockMan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
41
Hmm not sure if blocking her is a good move. Seems a bit extreme to me unless you are really fed up with her and never want to see her again. But given that you are neighbours youre going to run into her anyway. So you dont want to seem butthurt.

Might be better to just "be busy", leave her calls unanswered for a day... Or even tell her straight up "no" once in a while when she asks for favors.

I agree I don't want to come across as butthurt. Since I deleted her number she called my Whatsapp number twice today and the 1st call that went unanswered she replied afterwards saying "error call". Which I believe is just a shit test to find out if I'm still there. The reason is she called again in the evening and that's when I replied with a casual "hey what's up...". She read the message this morning and no response since. I see women do this whenever they realize they can no longer see my profile pic, about or status so they are checking if I actually blocked them.

Unfortunately in the past I've learnt that leaving the door open for certain women to easily come back, I usually fall for the temptation. In the past I've sworn "I'll stop talking to her for 2 months"

Whoops!

Somehow on the day I'm:

  • Having a dry spell
  • Got off a stressful day at work
  • e.t.c.
That's the moment these women decide to reach out looking for attention! And there goes my ass chasing again... slowly falling into oneitis thinking I will get her this time. Or worst I be right there at the phone and I refuse to answer the call and I feel guilty as hell because I had the time to answer but chose not to. Now the next time I'm interacting with her, it will be in the back of my mind subconsciously.

@gameboy you are the better man at me in this regards and I applaud you for that ability! Maybe when I have more options with women I can pull this I don't care or I'll ignore her vibe off. But for now, I remove all things that will trigger temptation and that keeps me sane and on the right path.


Damn, man. You’re balls deep into auto-rejection.

I think the best thing you can do here is stop focusing on this woman and date other ones.

I agree!

PeacockMan
 
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