My end of a year review of 2023 the bipolar mix with cringe year....

[Skills]

Was anyone ever being pushy with LMR? Even 20 years ago DYD was "two steps forward, one step back"... in MM it was "freezouts", i.e. total pulback. Personally I had a massive LMR problem in the summer of 2010, maybe half my pulls ended up with blue balls. I found just giving some girls 4 hours instead of 3 solved all of it... that plus really listening to them in comfort... nobody knows how to listen, if you do it's amazing.

Cool thread as every year

Exactly...

 

[Teevster]

Was anyone ever being pushy with LMR? Even 20 years ago DYD was "two steps forward, one step back"... in MM it was "freezouts", i.e. total pulback.

There is a major difference between these two strategies. Sure nobody vouched for "bull-blown" pushy persistence - well on second guess, there are prob some red-pillers/neodirect guys who praise it, but in the community,... no nobody suggested being needy.

But there were forms of persistence that were of the more active sort: the push and pull escalation as you advocated, and the step back and try to reframe her objections to sex and then once you get a green light resume escalation (a strategy I have liked - which I do not use anymore as I consider them better as preventive measures than reactive measures).

Today, I only believe in two lmr strategies:
- Preventions
- Freeze-outs (there are also many different ways to freeze out - I tend to prefer the non-reactive one).

-Teevster

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

My post was actually not directed at you, it was directed at Skjlodr's post:

Whenever girls are giving LMR I have become way less pushy about it with great effect

What does that mean, "less pushy"?
This is an innovation?
Who was pushy before?

You said you totally agreed with his post, so I guess my question was kinda directed at you too.
But your latest post doesn't really answer it.

Unless by pushy you mean "verbally pushy", which yeah... that caused all my LMR in early 2010.
And when I stopped trying to reframe LMR and instead gave them some more time and more listening, the LMR went away.

 

[Teevster]

Who was pushy before?

There were lots of resistance busting lines and reframes floating around in the past - some better than others, and some that I also have used in my past (like in 20213). Today, I consider them ALL pushy - any technique that seeks to reframe sex as good, liberating, empowering, whatever to a non-compliant girl as a response to her non-compliance is inherently pushy. So, by refraining from using such reframes, one is less pushy than before. Being totally passive against LMR is the way NOW.

You may have used to full-blown passive route since day 1. I am not sure that is necessarily a good thing because it isn't always the best way to deal with LMR caused by ASD. But considering women in the west do NOT resist due to ASD but because of comfort/attention-seeking (or both), the passive response is better. It DOES NOT mean it has always been that way.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Today, I consider them ALL pushy

That was my conclusion 13 years ago yes. As I stated.

any technique that seeks to reframe sex as good, liberating, empowering, whatever to a non-compliant girl as a response to her non-compliance is inherently pushy.

Yes

But considering women in the west

Oh I see what you did there. Shifting the goal post from "is not being pushy an innovation" to "is handling LMR without being pushy a cultural thing."

I'll play along, but I disagree. I have ~25 flags and only half a dozen of them are in Asia, a half dozen in the West. This isn't a cultural issue.

Further, CJ stopped being verbally pushy in like 2007, had no LMR, and he gamed in the US and Australia.

But considering women in the west do NOT resist due to ASD but because of comfort/attention-seeking (or both)

This is the case worldwide: when you're inside a sexual frame and a discretion frame, there is no ASD.

It is indeed a comfort issue, as I stated in my post: "Give them more time, and listen better."

Last comment: I don't have time for dick measuring. I'll take a break from the forum.

 

[Teevster]

Oh I see what you did there. Shifting the goal post from "is not being pushy an innovation" to "is handling LMR without being pushy a cultural thing."

I'll play along, but I disagree. I have ~25 flags and only half a dozen of them are in Asia, a half dozen in the West. This isn't a cultural issue.

Further, CJ stopped being verbally pushy in like 2007, had no LMR, and he gamed in the US and Australia.

In general I would agree, but at least in my experience, whenever dealing with an insanely conservative girl, who clearly wants to fuck, and isn't playing mindgames, and actually WANT YOU to convince her that fucking strangers is ok, leave room for such strategies, in fact, those are the strategies that work in this context.

In the past, those strategies may have worked better in general, without implying that they ere necessarily the best strategies. It is hard for me to go back in time and test, but I am open to that possibility. Nevertheless, my forte has always been dealing with LMR, including "those from hell" so I guess I must have done something right.

This is the case worldwide: when you're inside a sexual frame and a discretion frame, there is no ASD.

That's an idealistic view of it in my opinion. In most cases, this is true, but I do not think one can that simply reframe someones conditioning just like that. That residues of it remain during the late-game is not unheard of, even if you had managed to set a sexual frame earlier on (which is of course ideal, but also not always doable).

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

@Teevster and @Karea Ricardus D. you guys are not too far apart, and what you guys do is not what what @Skjöldr used to do he was on a period were he had the salesman commission breath (a salesman that is about to get fired if he does not meet the quote on a last day of a sale) and try to push things from negative compliance (he did not have the experience and the calibration down yet), eventually he got more chill, more relax and know when to back off and when he did not have it....

There are girls were you have to persist(no the pushy needy context, but to comfort, get her to open up to find hidden real issue), of course a good seduction is to make her want to do it, and no act from negative compliance to address this before hand. But, now a days the back off in my opinion works cause some girls are just testing (it is a shit test) to see if you will get pissed if you don't get it(red pillers), or get pushy... My take, once they see you are cool and you withdrawal the attention you are good...

 

[Teevster]

There are girls were you have to persist(no the pushy needy context, but to comfort, get her to open up to find hidden real issue), of course a good seduction is to make her want to do it, and no act from negative compliance to address this before hand. But, now a days the back off in my opinion works cause some girls are just testing (it is a shit test) to see if you will get pissed if you don't get it(red pillers), or get pushy... My take, once they see you are cool and you withdrawal the attention you are good...

100% in agreement.

(With the exception of girls who fall out of the mainstream - e.g. negative sexual conditioning)

-Teevster

 

[POB]

I can also add that historically, the gay scene was a gold-mine. Now, I think it is shit because of wokeness that has killed the good old gay community (mostly about sexual liberalism)

Agree 100%.
Can't stand being around them anymore (besides my old gay friends).

About bissexual girls, I also saw an increase in older bissexual women (like above 35).
I'm currently dating a 41yo old bi, and she's been very open about the idea of sharing pussy with me.
Of course she loves cock more, but it doesn't prevent her from wanting girls too.
My ex was like that too (I introduced her to it, she ended up loving it).

 

[Skjöldr]

What does that mean, "less pushy"?
This is an innovation?
Who was pushy before?

Lemme clarify:

So, previously I operated from the belief that if you took a step back in a seduction it would kill the seduction and that if you brought a girl to the brink and didn't close the deal, you would be very likely to never see her again. This mentality made me needy in some situations.

Now I'm non-needy and "outcome independent". Not only have I realized that the philosophy/strategy mentioned above is ineffective, it's unnatural for me now. I have had sex with many great women and had crazy good sexual experiences, so I'm cool with letting a girl go. Through experience I have become way more calibrated and laid-back.

I agree with the freeze-out and prevention. Funny, when you mentioned prevention I thought about that Patrick Star and Man Ray meme. I have sometimes felt that way after doing 2nd gen verbals on a girl all night with her agreeing with me on all my frames around sex, only for her to say "Wtf no, I'm not a slut" when push comes to shove. Tbh that's why I shifted to comfort+prizing, works way better for me. Prevention only goes so far and some girls are very stubborn... Might have to just do a freeze-out and/or shift the vibe and try again on another day. I actually laid my oneitis by going on like 5 very long dates with her, so some girls can be outliers... (she gave me a blowjob on the second date however)

Anyways, I made my own meme just now and thought it would be funny to share, if any guys know what I mean

Patrick Star and Man Ray

An image tagged patrick star and man ray

imgflip.com

 

[Skjöldr]

This is the case worldwide: when you're inside a sexual frame and a discretion frame, there is no ASD.

Disagree

It is indeed a comfort issue

I agree

 

[Skjöldr]

I believe that a girl would be more inclined to go home with a guy she feels safe with+she feels can give her good sex, but he might be a bit judgy vs. a non-judgemental guy who can give her good sex, but she doesn't feel safe with him.

Because at the end of the day she can just decide "fuck him and his opinions! atleast he will give me orgasms without killing me"

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Lemme clarify:

So, previously I operated from the belief that if you took a step back in a seduction it would kill the seduction and that if you brought a girl to the brink and didn't close the deal, you would be very likely to never see her again. This mentality made me needy in some situations.

Now I'm non-needy and "outcome independent". Not only have I realized that the philosophy/strategy mentioned above is ineffective, it's unnatural for me now. I have had sex with many great women and had crazy good sexual experiences, so I'm cool with letting a girl go. Through experience I have become way more calibrated and laid-back.

I agree with the freeze-out and prevention. Funny, when you mentioned prevention I thought about that Patrick Star and Man Ray meme. I have sometimes felt that way after doing 2nd gen verbals on a girl all night with her agreeing with me on all my frames around sex, only for her to say "Wtf no, I'm not a slut" when push comes to shove. Tbh that's why I shifted to comfort+prizing, works way better for me. Prevention only goes so far and some girls are very stubborn... Might have to just do a freeze-out and/or shift the vibe and try again on another day. I actually laid my oneitis by going on like 5 very long dates with her, so some girls can be outliers... (she gave me a blowjob on the second date however)

Anyways, I made my own meme just now and thought it would be funny to share, if any guys know what I mean

Patrick Star and Man Ray

An image tagged patrick star and man ray

imgflip.com

Interesting take...

do you mean just comfort in general (like the way its taught in pua circles and game OR sexual comfort OR Both

And what's your go to materials/gambits/frames for sexual comfort & prizing

 

[Skills]

100% in agreement.

(With the exception of girls who fall out of the mainstream - e.g. negative sexual conditioning)

-Teevster

Like religious nuts? I would be kj have not have those in years thankfully

 

[Skjöldr]

Interesting take...

do you mean just comfort in general (like the way its taught in pua circles and game OR sexual comfort OR Both

And what's your go to materials/gambits/frames for sexual comfort & prizing

Both. Sometimes I talk about how girls need to be relaxed to orgasm. And girls can be stressed during sex, so being comfortable allows the girl to orgasm more easily, because she shifts her focus from her mind to being relaxed in her body in the moment. Could also mention how important consent is and that sex is amazing when the people involved feel no pressure and are just free to enjoy eachother. Cute stories work well too.

On the non-verbal side, being calibrated and non-needy.

One time I just whipped out this video and watched it with a girl after she asked me "what are your expectations when bringing a girl home?". It was a short and sweet way of lowering her guards completely and I ended up banging her with zero resistance afterwards.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Both. Sometimes I talk about how girls need to be relaxed to orgasm. And girls can be stressed during sex, so being comfortable allows the girl to orgasm more easily, because she shifts her focus from her mind to being relaxed in her body in the moment. Could also mention how important consent is and that sex is amazing when the people involved feel no pressure and are just free to enjoy eachother. Cute stories work well too.

On the non-verbal side, being calibrated and non-needy.

One time I just whipped out this video and watched it with a girl after she asked me "what are your expectations when bringing a girl home?". It was a short and sweet way of lowering her guards completely and I ended up banging her with zero resistance afterwards.

Appreciate this bro..

Totally agree on the non needy aspect too... since I adopted a more laid-back approach, my game has improved

 

[Bismarck]

Interesting read Skills good thread, even if I may not agree with everything you wrote.

I suspect girls requiring more comfort (by the way Skjoldr stealing your Tea and Consent YT video idea for my next date) may also derive from the mainstreaming of ideas about toxic masculinity. Hence, a guy has to contrast himself with that. Still, to my knowledge, Dev was putting slut shaming tech to great use last year.

Looking at my last couple of years, I haven't been getting great results since I stopped guiding.

pre-corona: 2019 (10 girls), corona / no more guiding: 2020 (3 girls), 2021 (4 girls), post-corona: 2022 (6 girls), 2023 (5 girls). Still, in my most promiscuous years I was doing 2014 (16 girls), 2015 (16 girls), and 2017 (15 girls), which in itself isn't much more than 1 girl per month.

As a guide, it was much less effort, and abundance was sort of built into it since there was twat almost every time I went to work, especially during the warm months, which was most of the year, and even if they didn't all put out, taking them out for a drink was fun.

The lesson for me is that for cold approach to reap rewards by itself, it has to be done very often, especially so for day game-only gamers such as myself. I'm also past the age where you can use Tinder or other such apps to procure hot young girls due to the age restriction features.

The only time I tried Tinder, in 2020, I got shadow-banned right from the start, getting presented with girls that I wouldn't even notice IRL. The algo considered me a 5, so I uninstalled the app, after spending 20 bucks on the special features to see more unattractive girls who had swiped me right or left or whatever.

Social circle game is not a consistent source of snatch. Anonymity is preferable. You can also shoot for younger baes with cold approach than you might have access to in SCs.

 

[Skills]

Interesting read for me Skills good thread, even if I may not agree with everything you wrote.

I suspect girls requiring more comfort (by the way Skjoldr stealing your Tea and Consent YT video idea for my next date) may also derive from the mainstreaming of ideas about toxic masculinity. Hence, a guy has to contrast himself with that. Still, to my knowledge, Dev was putting slut shaming tech to great use last year.

Looking at my last couple of years, I haven't been getting great results since I stopped guiding.

pre-corona: 2019 (10 girls), corona: 2020 (3 girls), 2021 (4 girls), post-corona: 2022 (6 girls), 2023 (4 girls). Still, in my most promiscuous years I was doing 2014 (16 girls), 2015 (16 girls), and 2017 (15 girls), which in itself isn't much more than 1 girl per month.

As a guide, it was much less effort, and abundance was sort of built into it since there was twat almost every time I went to work, especially during the warm months, which was most of the year, and even if they didn't all put out, taking them out for a drink was fun.

The lesson for me is that for cold approach to reap rewards by itself, it has to be done very often, especially so for day game-only gamers such as myself. I'm also past the age where you can use Tinder or other such apps to procure hot young girls due to the age restriction features.

The only time I tried Tinder, in 2020, I got shadow-banned right from the start, getting presented with girls that I wouldn't even notice IRL. The algo considered me a 5, so I uninstalled the app, after spending 20 bucks on the special features to see more unattractive girls who had swiped me right or left or whatever.

Social circle game is not a consistent source of snatch. Anonymity is preferable. You can also shoot for younger twat with cold approach than you might have access to in SCs.

Well, if you were a tour guide you are the highest value person in that situation and authority figure and dealing with tourist.... which is awesome... Yes cold approach has to be done constantly I mention that in the post... If you are not doing online correctly now a days is like a company with no website... There are ways to get around the problems that online present... As per post you need cross gaming now a days for better results... Or find and angle or niche, like tour guiding... But cross gaming, being consistent with the sarges are crucial to get laid... ask @Devilicious he cross game with online and laid a lot fast once he got the structure, momentum carry to cold approach and social circle...I was against online cause I am a game purist myself for years but not cross gaming including that is foolish... Not being consistent with cold approach kills any type of progress and momentum... Those are 2 mistakes... For social circle I personally don't like it... Now all game styles have gotten harder due to consistency (supply of women), but easier if the supply is there due to more sexual freedom and openess....

 

[Tony D]

I just hook up with tourists. Super easy if you have a private room in a heavily touristed spot. Though, I prefer to be alone in the forest or jungle. Seriously. It's really nice and my intellectual game is stratospheric. Also, my 2024 business game is going to skyrocket. All this Instagram dating and online dating stuff is loser game. If you can put that much effort into online game, why not just go out and cold approach. Remember "Attraction is not a choice?"

On the fashion trends, I have no idea. I've lived out of my backpack for three years. I remember caring about what I wear.

AI heavily affected me as a writer. Actually, it made me go full stop on my foray into copywriting as a hustle. Now, I'm back to creating get girls content and I'm working like a machine to just make a dent in young men's overloaded consciousness. Most of us can't even comprehend what AI is about to do the world, to our daily existence, the economy, sexuality. Now is the golden era, and I predict some very dystopian outcomes. So get ready for that!

My cold approach skills are 10/10 at 45 years old. However, in the travel scene post covid, fewer women travel solo, and the hotter ones are staying home. Now they roam in packs. I think there's a lot of media induced fear, and less German and Eastern Euro women travelling solo, which has always been my bread and butter. Oh how I miss Russian girls. They're nowhere to be found. Most hot women from North America are Russian 5's. I love German girls too, even though they're westernized, I still love them. But they aren't travelling alone like they used to.

The digital nomad life is my favoritie way to be, so I'm a bit out of touch with what it's like in modern western city life.

 

[Skills]

I just hook up with tourists. Super easy if you have a private room in a heavily touristed spot. Though, I prefer to be alone in the forest or jungle. Seriously. It's really nice and my intellectual game is stratospheric. Also, my 2024 business game is going to skyrocket. All this Instagram dating and online dating stuff is loser game. If you can put that much effort into online game, why not just go out and cold approach. Remember "Attraction is not a choice?"

Yeah tony you always been a true sigma.... Tourist are super easy my ratio sky rocket with tourist (they are dying in my neck of the woods i blame probably the economy).... I disagree with online and insta being a loser game, and they are 2 separate things, for example i think insta for me too much effort but online once you do the innitial effort (right pictures, right profiles, right structure is super easy) ordering home pizza (is not hard).... Also, in the post i CLEARLY advocate cross gaming..... I never say do cold approach or online i said cross game... Also in my review of 2022 entering 2023 i saw a coach phenomenon that i excluded this year cause i did not follow much the pua scene last year:

- following the above we have a lot of pua teachers that smartly got the fuck out of usa/England to a more favorable sexual market places such as Colombia, Brazil, Eastern Europe, Thailand, Mexico.... good for them, but a lot of the stuff they teach will be hard to relate to usa.. This alarming trend cont. worst they are though no exchange sex for money, indirectly very close to this... (is like a latin america dan balzirian flah game)...

On the fashion trends, I have no idea. I've lived out of my backpack for three years. I remember caring about what I wear.

yeah fashion went to shit! like 90 style, but women going baggy with jeans and pants sucks...but more naked with other clothes good..

AI heavily affected me as a writer. Actually, it made me go full stop on my foray into copywriting as a hustle. Now, I'm back to creating get girls content and I'm working like a machine to just make a dent in young men's overloaded consciousness. Most of us can't even comprehend what AI is about to do the world, to our daily existence, the economy, sexuality. Now is the golden era, and I predict some very dystopian outcomes. So get ready for that!

Already as i said in the op a lot of my friends for tech industry lost jobs...

My cold approach skills are 10/10 at 45 years old. However, in the travel scene post covid, fewer women travel solo, and the hotter ones are staying home. Now they roam in packs. I think there's a lot of media induced fear, and less German and Eastern Euro women travelling solo, which has always been my bread and butter. Oh how I miss Russian girls. They're nowhere to be found. Most hot women from North America are Russian 5's. I love German girls too, even though they're westernized, I still love them. But they aren't travelling alone like they used to.

Good insight tonny, i wonder if is the popularity of true crime, (i don't watch manosphere videos now all i personally watch is true crime) and i seen like 5 episodes people getting killed traveling and shit! maybe fuck women ras... Like i don't want to travel myself...

The digital nomad life is my favoritie way to be, so I'm a bit out of touch with what it's like in modern western city life

you are not missing much....