Journal

[bobbyb112]

Curious, what is your pull line?

I'll answer, but with a lecture first. The lecture is, any given line isn't the "key" to success. Vibe is the key, and the words you use to do any part of the interaction are more incidental. Focus on vibe. For the pull line, what matters is everything you did before, and if you did a good job, the words work. If you didn't, they won't work. Lecture over.

Nothing crazy. "I have some wine at my apartment, want to go grab a drink there?" or "Let's go have some wine on my roof" or "I have a roof with a great view of the city let's go hang out there."

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date the other day.

We met up for drinks. Sat. Talked. Vibed. Asked for compliance like showing me her jewelry. Tried to touch, but didn't really work. Walked. Invited her home, she said not really. We walked and sat in some grass for a bit. Pulled her in. Tried kissing her. She said I don't kiss on the first date. I backed off. We talked more. Walked back. She left to go home.

The deep diving was decent. Talking about things. Turning it sexual I didn't really do well if at all. Touch, I tried to get closer, but it was the classic situation where she is sitting straight up in a chair with space between us, and it's hard to get any closer. Also, I worry I might be too witty or jokey during the date. Then again, aren't I making it fun? Not sure. Much of the date seemed good, with conversation. I guess I'm not sure if I saw any "indicators of interest." Then again, I rather rarely do see them. My voice was not on point. That is something to be aware of more, how my voice sounds. It kind of goes with the witty jokes. The witty joke tone is not good for asking real questions.

The negative compliance was not good. But the positive compliance was good. So I guess there is good stuff there. Upon meeting her, I wanted to have us move to a different bar both because I wanted to try it and for the compliance piece. But she had already gotten a table, so I stayed with the original plan.

Something I'd like to try is more hypnotic talking. More sensual. Instead of witty banter. That is probably what the seduction was missing. Less witty jokes, more sensual conversation. The witty banter is good, it just isn't needed the whole time.

I will ask her out again, but there is a 0.5% chance she says yes. She was more attractive than girls I normally go out with. She was 24, and not fat. I wouldn't say I was nervous. You just have to be that much more on point to get more attractive girls.

I met up for drinks with another girl another day recently. She was fat, and I decided pretty early on that I wouldn't try to pull her home. We talked and deep dived for a while. She gave hints of wanting to move it forward, saying "do you date immigrants?" (in her good but not perfect English). I also touched her on the arm once, and she lit up. I took her question as a sign of wanting to move it more sexual. Which I would do by touching her more and getting physically closer. I could/ should/ would have, for the practice. But I didn't move on from the deep dive section to the sexual section, and we parted ways after some time.

It's funny to me how these girls that give little if any signals of liking you, then say or do something to imply that they like you, or want you to turn it more sexual or whatever. Put another way, am I missing signals to move things forward, such that she feels the need to be more blatant? I don't know. Is moving your hair once to the side a signal of interest? Is sitting up straight like a soldier, and not touching back when you touch them a signal of interest? I don't know. But multiple girls who have done this have indeed come home with me and become lovers. Others, not so much. What is the signal it's time to turn the conversation sexual? I rely on a rough sense of timing right now. But is there a better signal?

This girl was also weirdly quiet when walking together. Was she just wanting it to be over, and just going with it to be polite? Or was she awkward because liked me and didn't want to mess it up? Or was she deciding what to do or not do if I made a move? Or was she interested, then annoyed that I missed her signals and then went into auto-rejection? Or maybe she is just quiet and okay with silence in general? Hard to tell.

Sometimes I think the best game is to just have excellent body language (straight back), a deep voice, and facial expressions. Forget the rest. These are the most important parts.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date with a girl the other day.

We met in front of one bar. We moved to another one. We talked. She was good at talking, meaning she could talk a blue streak, so I listened for a while, asking some questions and teasing her. I needed to interject and tease her more, though, because if I just let her go on and on, these somewhat interesting but ultimately platonic stories would go on for a while. I back some physical touch. I invited her back for a drink. There, we kissed for a second, but she stopped and said "I don't know you enough yet." We talked for a while more. I did ask about some more qualifying things, including if she did anything artistic. This was more helpful, because she was qualifying herself, plus it is more interesting to me. We kissed some more. Then she said she had to leave. She said she enjoyed meeting me, and if we wanted to meet again to text her.

For this girl, I needed to interject more, to tease, clarify, and probe more. Some girls are easy to get talking. Some are harder. This girl was easy, because she was good at talking. But I just let her go, and she went on with these long stories. I need to interject. Otherwise, it doesn't feel personal enough. It feels like I was the audience for a monologue. This happened with another girl I remember. She talks and talks, and it's interesting talking in general, but it is just not personal enough. I need to interject. What's good about these talking girls, is when you do ask qualifying questions, they talk a lot, which is qualifying herself. For example with this girl, I asked her about if she did something artistic, and she talked about drawing for like 5 minutes. With the other girl, I asked if she did something artistic, and she talked about writing and music for like 5 minutes. Point being, they are ready and willing to invest, you just have to interject to get to the questions you need to ask.

I also wore a watch, and used it to check time. I didn't want to stay at the bar for more than 60 minutes, because then it starts getting stale. If not sooner. That was about the time when we bounced from the bar to my place.

As far as posture, I felt I did this somewhat well. A few times, I checked in with myself to make sure I was sitting up straight. This is important, after sitting all day at a desk. And it is attractive.

I should make a list of things I want to talk about and get answers for. That way, I can ask them, and spend too much or too little time in them. For example, 1 passion/hobby, and 1 thing that's artistic. Artistic has emotional connotations, which is nice. Passion can be travel, or an Instagram account she makes money with posting memes (one girl did this), a sport like martial arts, hiking, theatre, etc. Exactly what it sounds like. Passions or hobbies. Then, I can move on to sexual topics, somehow. What makes her light up? That is what I'm trying to get to.

I also made sure my energy was more on-point today. I went to the gym and lifted, then did 30 minutes of zone 2 cardio. I also walked for about an hour. Ate well. Took a short nap. Pretty healthy day, overall. However, I did have to poop the whole date. Which isn't good. Not that you have to feel perfect to run dates well. But you might as well make sure you're feeling as good as possible.

The girl from the last post unmated with me on the app. We had coordinated through the app, so I won't be able to reach out to her again. So I don't even have a chance for a second date! Honestly, I think the best strategy on dating apps is to just never expect a girl to go out with you twice. If you don't close it on the first date, she's as good as gone. I'm sure it's that way with girls you met via night game or day game too. But at least in my experience with the apps, they rarely want to meet up again. This girl in this post said she enjoyed meeting me and maybe wanted to meet up again. I will text to find out. She was closer to the kind of girl I like, which is good. It is easier to get second dates with girls more similar to you. That is just common sense. People like hanging out and dating people who are like them. So that is a positive factor on meeting up again.

I can definitely see the benefit of social momentum. I only talked to a few people all day, then on the date you feel somewhat clammed up. Social momentum helps with this. Life is funny.

 

[bobbyb112]

I had a date the other day.

We went to the bar nearby. Sat and talked. She was very good at asking questions, and looking interested. We talked about some good things. She talked about the creative stuff she wanted to try, as well as athletic stuff. We also talked about the art of conversation, how asking questions is good. After about 1:15, I asked if she wanted to go back, but she said she wasn't thrilled about it on the first date. So we kept talking, and eventually I said I needed to go.

This was another one where I had trouble turning it sexual. That is, we have the good conversation, but it doesn't really get sexual or intimate. I tried getting close to her, or having her show me her jewelry. She stayed away, sitting straight up, seemingly a mile away, in the chair next to me. How on earth do you cut space and get closer? Or, frame things in a sexual way, so your conversation adds sexual energy? How can I escalate the vibe?

We talked for such a long time. It was vaguely interesting. But there's only so much talking I can handle. Sometimes you have to just shut up. Maybe I should start paying less attention to girls. They just like talking. Maybe I should look away, or look less interested. I'm not sure what this would accomplish. This girl was very good at asking questions. Which is cool. But sometimes you have to stop, take a pause, and allow the silence draw the other person into the conversation. Or maybe not.

How do I lead the conversation to sexual topics, or otherwise turn it sexual? Also, how do I get women to use a sexier voice when they're talking with me? I like sexy voices.

I used my smirk, which I feel helps. It gets me in a more sensual mode, and is fun and playful, and lowkey and intimate. That is the goal, anyway.

It's funny, the girl from a few days ago talked too much, much of it interesting, but ultimately not productive as far as a seduction goes. This girl was good at asking questions, which was engaging socially, but not ultimately not product as far as a seduction goes. Honestly, next time, I think I'm just going to look away when girls talk. If you give them attention, they will talk a lot. And not get close.

I know girls' agenda is not seduction. But still, wouldn't being seductive encourage suitors to pursue them more? C'mon women,
make me want to see you a second time (after not having sex on the first date).

How do I take it from a social conversation to sexual, without her keeping it social? That is my big question.

After asking her home, she did turn her legs a little more to me afterwards, getting incidental contact with our legs. Maybe this was her realizing that "hey, this guy does like me, maybe I need to do something." Or not.

Maybe I just need to tease them more. Right from the beginning. Tease her. Sure, good deep dive conversation is good. But establishing a teasing dynamic is more productive for seduction, and fun. That is what I want to do. Make sure to tease her personally more.

The smirking did seem to work. It also gave a slower, deeper, more hypnotic, more intimate voice. I liked that. I'll keep it. Posture-wise, I made sure a few times to sit up straight. I probably was sitting up straight most of the time. That is good. That probably helped a lot. Posture is valuable. So my fundamentals are 1. posture (straight back) 2. smirk (low, deep, intimate, hypnotic voice) 3. tease (active game, making the interaction fun, which you can then tease her more in a sexual way later).

For teasing, I did this with a girl a month or two ago. Going out, I made it a point to try to tease her. It worked, in that the conversation was more fun, and we ended up closing the deal. Other times, I've tried teasing or joking, but it comes across as too jokster-y or entertainer-y. What is the reason for this? You're not teasing HER, you're making jokes about the situation. Even if they are clever or witty, they aren't PERSONAL to her, and so they come across as being an entertainer or social, rather than intimate. Teasting HER rather than making clever general jokes is what you want to do. This goes along with good posture, and a smirk, because you are strong and in your frame, and can take the "risk" of teasing her. The point is, that it is PERSONAL to her. This is what I want to try and work on.

 

[bobbyb112]

The other day I saw a girl I've seen 4 times now.

We've had sex each time, and she has been rather into me. However before she was leaving this latest time, she said I want to ask an awkward question. Sure. Have you been sleeping with other people? Yes. Okay, I would have liked to know for health reasons. Hm, right, luckily it's all healthy, so we're good there for now. (Silence for a minute). Me: I see this as casual, and then developing into more. Her: My concern is I feel like I like you more than you do me, and what if it doesn't turn into something more? Me: That's valid. Well, we should think about it. Okay. Me: It sounds like health reasons are important to you, so, if I sleep with other people do you want me to tell you? Her: Yes.

Then I walked her out and said goodbye and whatnot.

Later she texted "I'll let you know if I'm free next week". The old "don't call me we'll call you". She's done. That's how I read it, anyway.

As a side note, this was one of the girls where her vagina is smaller/tighter than my dick. Every time we have sex it feels like she is going to rip my dick off with her pussy. My dick hurts. It makes the sex quite a bit less enjoyable. In my experience, around 20% of women I've had sex with their vagina is small enough so that sex hurts for me. I wonder if it feels that way for them too. It's annoying, because it lowers the pool of women I'd like to see more. Oh well. Has anyone else experienced this?

So, this is a classic balance between value and attainability. Also, deciding what you want with a girl. Also, the process of converting them from casual lover to girlfriend. Let's pretend my desired plan here is to turn her into a girlfriend. The trick is keeping it going, for 3 months or whatever, until you allow her to call you her boyfriend. The point is, in this process, I sort of want to balance value and attainability enough so that she doesn't feel overinvested and go into auto rejection. In other words, as she said, she seems to like me more than me her. And I don't dislike her, I just want to keep it casual for the 3 month getting to know each other period.

This is the girl who the very first date, I used my smirk plus strong posture plus maybe teasing, and she hooked pretty hard. I also pulled her into me, and this seemed at the time, and looking back now, to create quite an experience for her. This is cool. It's cool seeing the power to get a girl to fall for you, figuratively and literally. I definitely want to use this more. This was definitely the hardest a girl has every hooked/fallen for me. Indeed, most times, they hardly seem interested at all, whether or not they sleep with me! I need to practice it more. Also, I might need to practice telling a girl I'm not boyfriend material. Disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend. I'm not sure how to do this necessarily.

A not-so-small part of this is texting. She will text me random stuff, on the days between seeing each other. Now, here's a question for the seducers. Do you like texting with a girl between meeting up? How often do you do it? Daily? Every other day? Never? My preference is never, because I'm busy. But do you risk coming across as unattainable or too aloof? Maybe.

Maybe I could use the "I just don't want to rush into anything." This seems like a weak-ass thing to say, though. It sounds like a guy who is wishy washy. Then again, I understand the frame. It's saying "not yet." You're trying to string along the other person. Is it better to tell them in a more upfront manner, I want something casual? Or better to have them figure it out from your actions? So many options.

As far as running this early relationship, how do you avoid the girl becoming too invested, and wanting too much too fast? That seems like what is happening with this girl. It's funny, because most girls I've slept with don't want to see each other again. Now this one likes me TOO much, and is risking going into auto rejection because I don't want to see her every other day or text her nonstop. What gives? Quality problems.

What's funny is I met this girl on Bumble. She said she had just joined the app, and gone on only one other date with another guy, who was not great. She has only slept with around 5 people her whole life. Point being, if she starts swiping again, she'll be one of the flakey app girls in no time flat! (That's my cynical and accurate take as it regards to apps). I don't envy the position of girls. They want a guy who is "high value" that other girls want ... but ideally they wouldn't want to share that man with other women. Such is life.

I'm not sure if there was a better way for me to set expectations from the beginning. Like, "I want this to be casual." Maybe this was the right time to set those expectations, because it is still pretty early, after where she is "converted" to seeing each other more, but before it goes on too long. Maybe she will buy into the frame. Maybe she won't. In my dating life, there have been 1 girl I saw around 7 times, 1 around 6, 2 3 times. You could call this a sticking point, in terms of converting girls to ongoing relationships. Then again, none of those other girls were ones I would have wanted to turn into girlfriends, necessarily. But, that doesn't mean I don't want to practice the skills! I guess this is a reason to go after girls you find attractive. It's more motivating to put yourself out there (for approaching), and being convicted in your desire to eventually turn her into a girlfriend to stick with it or invest.

Anyway...

It makes me wonder what non-game guys do. Do they say "yes I want you to be my girlfriend how long before we have sex?". Obviously that isn't a great alternative. This dating stuff takes forever. It's a bit of a wonder to me that so many people in the world are actually together. Then again, many people are together more out of fear/scarcity rather than abundance/preference. So any of the game stuff you do is valuable. It all contributes towards that abundance mentality that master daters possess.