Seppuku's Journey into Seduction



Seppuku's Journey into Seduction

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:42 am

Hi guys,

I am Seppuku, a 45 years old french national living and working in Doha, Qatar. I initially established myself in the Middle East along with my family (wife and two kids) back in 2008. In 2012 I went through my divorce after living 15 years with the same woman. Things finally settled in friendly terms, and ex wife returned to France with kids. And here I was, single on my own again after 15 years, thinking that I would live the rosy life with girls once more.

However, after fucking up with my initial dates prospects, I quickly found out that things are not that easy:

    1. How do you get dates with women? It's been 15 years since last time I had one
    2. Whatever I used to do to get women in my late twenties do not work anymore. It's simply not congruent with the 45 years old man I have become.
    3. Qatar is a muslim country where having a girlfriend is called "illegal fornication". That tells it all. You have to be very careful here about who you're seen with and by whom
    4. The dating market is particular. Available western women are in very short supply. Muslim girls are simply out of question. On the other hand you have plenty of filipinas and christian lebanese women.
    5. No salsa classes here, or very few. I went to one class at the Sheraton hotel, and there were 14 guys and two girls, thank you, I'm out of here.
Fortunately, I stumbled into girls chase shortly after my divorce. It was an eye opener, and my chance to relearn everything from scratch. Upon reading the material there, my initial effort was essentially to work out my fundamentals, and to learn about getting social confidence with strangers. I lost a lot of weight and changed my whole wardrobe, working out a style, somehow after George Clooney, congruent with the man I was. At the same time I kept reading in girls chase, impregnating myself with the ideas there which were all new to me.

It is only in June this year that, after a long period of being happy to be just on my own, I finally decided to kick myself out of celibacy. Things started picking up for me in September this year, when suddenly I got more dates than I could handle. I have now a girlfriend, while still occasionally dating other girls on the side. In this journal I want to write down what had been my journey so far (based on personal notes I took for myself) as well as my future attempts at improving myself.

I hope you enjoy reading it.
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July 12 - walking in Paris

Postby Seppuku » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:35 am

Since I started my personal notes (end of June 2014) I had numerous examples of cases where I try to approach a girl (usually indirect approach based on situation) and try something new. At this point my goal was never to try to pull a girl home, as I think I am not yet ready for this. Instead, I am trying to learn how to build confidence approaching women, how to build social momentum and social proof. Here is one note dated July 12, where I was on a holiday in Paris, walking in the streets and trying to gain social momentum.

    12 July - Day out in Paris with objective to gain social momentum. I am dressed casually but with a jacket George Clooney style.

    * I am walking behind two asian women (30+) and watch their sexy braids swinging. One of them turns back, notices me accidentally (or not!) and sees the pleased smile on my face. She turns towards me a second time, very briefly to check again... All was in the body language. We walk separate paths.
    * I walk Rue de Rivoli next to le Louvre. There is this young pretty woman selling bottles of water. I approach in a serious tone. "Excuse me. Do you know where is the Carousel du Louvre?" "No, sorry!" "You don't know?" (sexy voice) I smile. She laughs. "And what are you selling? Bottles of water? Well, but I am not thirsty". The conversation in itself is empty but all the communication was in the sexy undertones, smiles, charm, and positive body language. One thing I tried here was to engage her with a neutral body language to build up intrigue, then release the tension with a sexy smile.
    * 10 meters further there is this group of 3 young persons approaching people with marketing samples. I plan to talk to them but before I know it this young lady puts one sample in my hands. I ask her "Do you now where is the Carousel du Louvre?" The young man steps in and indicates me the way. I watch the sample she gave me. "So meantime, you gave me this?" "It is a sample or perfume from Lacoste" she replies. I show her my Lacoste shirt. "Did not know Lacoste was into perfumes... How should I do with your sample?" She shows me how to get the small napkin inside: "People put it anywhere they like." she says. I smile. She laughs. "No, I did not mean this place:-)" giggles. I answer: "For now I will be more modest!" I put the perfume on my neck. That was funny because she made up the sexual innuendo.
    * At the Carousel du Louvre there is an inverted pyramid. Tourists from everywhere are continuously taking shots of it. There is a little asian hottie waiting for her friend. I pretend not to notice her and come close to her. I have my phone ready and I prepare to shoot a picture of the pyramid. She gets closer and look. Someone bumps into my visual field, and she exclaims "Oh!" I initially pretended not to notice her and she tried to grab my attention. "Great!" I say. Missed shot. I try to engage her with a comment but her friend has come back and they both go away. This is an example of sign of interest I am getting occasionally but which vanishes before I even have time to react. How does one capitalizes on something like this?
    * At the chocolate shop, this lady (45+, or maybe 50+, yet still attractive) is very flirty and smiling. I buy a box of chocolate.
    * Later as I walk back I cross the young woman with the bottles of water. She spots me, she smiles. "Did you find it?" "It's right there. In it, there is this famous chocolate shop". I show her the bag. "Have a good day!" Of course the former sexy tension has disappeared by now. Either you act immediately, or you don't, but later is too late.
    * I walk my way to Chatelet. There are two young black girls with provocative shapes. I end up walking right behind them, they're headed to Chatelet too. I think of approaching one of the two with "Excuse me, the blue shirt matches very well your skin color"... But I don't. At some point we reach a crowded area and they stop and look around. I pretend not looking at them, and I have the feeling that one of the two noticed me. Now they're walking behind me. Finally we walk separate ways.

    Today I gathered a lot of positive reactions. I think my look is now in sync with me, projecting the right image.

    Good things:
    * The two girls Rue de Rivoli: Approach on a serious tone and body language, release the tension with a smile then use sexy tones; use sexual innuendos
    * Big approach invitation from this asian tourist who staged something to grab my attention. Everything fell when girlfriend was back.

    What I could have done better. Given the circumstances it was hard to even arrange a date. I could have gone for phone numbers nevertheless.
    * The girl with the bottles of water: ask her name, place a compliment, ask for her phone. Then follow up by texting.
    * Should have approached the two black girls

    I am aware that there is no underlying plan behind my interactions. Gathering validation is good, it helps building confidence, but leads nowhere. What I need is a proper process.
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August 4 - cold approach in a cafe

Postby Seppuku » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:40 am

There have been more and more attempts and experiments. For the cold approach I manage to do it occasionally when there is an obvious situational opener. The thing I don't do yet is the direct approach, with compliment... But I am sure I can get there. Then when I am into an improvised interaction I find my interaction goes nowhere because of lack of structure. There are also many cases where it is obviously no possible logistics now, yet I still want to try the approach. Here is an example taken from this summer vacation. I was then in a village in the south of France and for several days I have been sitting each morning in a cafe, with a nice and sunny weather and so many beautiful ladies walking around. We all know the feeling!

I noticed a beautiful girl, in her late twenties probably, with long sexy hair and nice womanly shapes. She is obviously the waitress in a nearby restaurant and she comes in the morning to have a coffee in the same cafe, before starting her day in the restaurant. There has been no obvious opportunity to approach her. Either she was seating too far (it would have been to obvious for me to walk there in front of everyone) or seating with friends... Until that morning of August 4th. Problem being, I would leave the town the next day and back to Doha, and had important stuff to do in the evening. There was really no obvious way of how to conclude this. Yet she was now seating the table next to me and no one with her. I was then seating here with my brother but after 15 minutes he left. I have to talk to her!

When my coffee is finished I ask the waiter for another one. I then turn towards the girl and say "Mademoiselle! Would you like to have another coffee?" Well, it's her second coffee already, she had already too much, she replies. OK, some resistance. It's a woman job to resist, and it's man's job to persist. Chase's article "She wants to submit" https://www.girlschase.com/content/she-wants-submit is a must read. We exchange a few words, then I ask "So, can I join you at your table?" Well, she's about to go, and anyway she was reading a nice book. "Well it looks more like your were browsing your iphone! OK I am not going to be shy any longer" and I just sit at her table. "OK, if you insist!" she says and now suddenly she has a sexy smile and open body language. Persistence works! My coffee arrives and we start chatting. Her work, no vacations in her job, etc... Question arises of where I live and work. Well that's a slightly tricky one. Saying you work in Qatar is an easy bait and usually build curiosity but then the discussion evolves about how is life there, and suddenly it's all about me, not her. I usually try to give some quick and generic answers and put the conversation back on her. Well for now I have to think of an exit before it all crash down. As I see no obvious logistics immediately available, I prefer not to overspill my beans and leave her on a high. After all I am likely back there next vacations. My coffee is finished, I stand up. "I have to go now. What is your name?" we exchange our names, I shake her hand, we smile and I leave.

Would be curious to hear how other guys would have handled this.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:18 am

You did okay. Approaching seated women isn't the easiest thing in the world.

To make it easier I would do this.

(1) As soon as you notice her, approach, don't wait for a good opportunity (there are of course exceptions... she is with a colleague, etc)... this is because she is aware of your presence and you will look timid if you approach minutes/hours/days later.

(2) Assume attraction -- just walk over to her table, sit down, smile and say "I noticed you had only your book for company, so I had to come and introduce myself. I'm Seppuku." or "I thought you would need some company other than your book, so I came over to say hi. I'm Seppuku." or whatever comes naturally. (I did this last night so I know it works, she didn't have a book though so I just said I thought she would need someone to talk to... or whatever).

(3) Try some cold approach tactics before she is sitting down... "hey, stop for a moment" (she's walking past you with her coffee) or "hey, come and sit here"... this works much better than you coming into her territory. Or better still intercept her at the register or outside the shop or whatever. In these cases use a "totally cute" opener or "I could not help noticing your cute outfit... you look fabulous... I'm Seppuku." or similar.

(4) I wouldn't offer her a coffee, asking to sit at her table is acceptable but best avoided.

cheers, Ray

Edit: Rereading your OP the best compliment to use would have been about her hair maybe, not her outfit (that's just a standard fallback I use for women who look well put together).
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:54 am

Hey Ray,

Thank you for the feedback! It's definitely all good advice. About sitting at her table, are you suggesting that I should sit without even asking? Well, that would make sense!
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August - Back to Doha as a single dad

Postby Seppuku » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:31 am

Well, I have advertised this journal as 'dating in Doha' but so far my posts were about my attempts in France, lol. But all vacations come to an end, and early August I am back to Doha. The new thing, though, is as per our recent agreement with my ex wife, I have my two children with me for one full school year. It is a unique situation. Will it spell an end to my on-going initiative at self improvement with girl? Actually not, as we will see!

It turns out that advertising yourself as a single dad gives you an aura. You are a responsible Man! You stand out of the crowd. And you are respectable. When you are out with two kids, it attracts curiosity of women and gives plenty of opportunities to opening conversations. Plus, it opens new contexts to meet more women (nurses, school,...). Well I am not arguing about having kids just for the sake of picking girls!

It does, however, make things harder on logistics.
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August 9 - flight back to Doha

Postby Seppuku » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:34 am

I am traveling with my two children, on our way back to Doha after one month of vacation. In the plane, a few rows behind us there are two very pretty brunette girls in their twenties, and one of them seems to be looking at me when I look in their way. There is a very pretty, asian looking flight attendant proposing drinks and she is now serving my kids. My daughter is 7 yrs old. "She understands english but a bit shy to speak!" I tell her. For me it will be argentinian wine: "I've already had too much french wine during my vacation!". When she serves me I touch her hand as I take the glass and hold the touch for a little moment, then release. Touching is the very big thing I am experimenting these days, and it works wonders!

Later she passes by: "How was the argentinian wine?" Smiles. "Very nice, I will have some more during lunch!" After lunch, she comes by again. "They are so cute!" she says about my kids. "What is your name?" I ask. She shows me her badge "Etienne". "In french, this is a man's name!" She continues down the corridor and she is now near the two girls. I stand up and come just behind her, catch her attention by gently touching her arm just below shoulder. She turns back. With a slow smile and sexy tone I say "but you do not look like a man!" she giggles and go, I return to my seat. Now the two girls are staring at me each time I turn back.

Later I ask Etienne "Where are you from? Usually I can more or less figure it out, but in your case, I don't know!" "I'm from India, northern part of India". And it is true that in some part of India near central Asia you find white skinned, asian looking girls. By the way here in Doha, I came across a couple of girls from Kazakhstan, absolutely gorgeous, guys!

Regarding Etienne, I ponder what to do next. There is about an hour of flight left, and soon we'll start the landing. I am thinking of going to the back of the plane (where she stays with other flight attendants) and ask to meet later in Doha for a lunch with my little family. But it would have not looked natural, and I don't have a pen. Whatever the excuse I don't do it, how stupid of me.

As we exit the plane, the two girls are now right behind me. Soon they are headed for flight transfer, and we go for the exits.

Yes, it seems the two girls were telegraphing IOIs, but I had to pick up my battlefield. However I failed to act with the flight attendant. It's amazing how we make up excuses not to act.
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Doha - some IOIs in August

Postby Seppuku » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:24 am

I eventually started to have interesting (and successful!) interactions with women in September, and I am trying to fast forward to reach there, but there are a few interesting cases of signs of interests from August that deserve some mention.

August 15. Natasha is a waitress working at one of the 5 stars hotel here in Doha. She has long braided black hair, dark skin, very appealing woman shapes and overall very sexy. We're in the lounge with my kids and having fruit cocktails. I engage in casual chat with her as we are drinking, and initially try not to telegraph too much interest. As I go for the check I ask her "Where are you from?" "For Nepal, sir" Well I would have never guessed. I observe a short silence, then "You are beautiful!" It was spontaneous, I said it calmly with emphasis on the adjective. "Thank you sir" she answered in a neutral tone. Well as she does not look too excited,I assume that she is getting this sort of compliment all the time and leave. Two weeks later as I was in the same lounge for a coffee, and no longer expecting her, she passes by and irradiates me with a big, warm smile! I smile back, a flirty smile. I was caught off guard here and before I know it she's gone. This is an example of transient sign of interest where I am not able to react fast enough. Also it shows that a genuine compliment expressed with conviction can develop with time! Sometimes with the girls you just have to suggest something and let the suggestion act by itself!

September 5. My children and I are at the swimming pool of the Ritz Carlton, and I notice this young woman, maybe early thirties, beautiful and sexy ass, suggestive swimming suit, overall nice body. She bends over and I can guess her vulva through the suit. I get aroused. She is with her husband and a 2 year old child. A bit later at the cold pool, I am struggling to get in the water. She arrives alone and get straight into the cold water. I look at her, she looks me back and says "I am not so brave [...]" I answer something like "You actually look very brave". Her husband comes with their child, she leaves. Later I reach the hot pool and she is there "So you go into the hot pool first then cold one?" She answers something then leave. My god she has a wonderful, sexy back side. Interaction is off then, she is with her child, I am with mine. When I leave, end of afternoon, she spots me and smile. I remove my sunglasses, smile back and say "bye bye!". This one, with husband nearby, I am not sure how to capitalize on it.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby BarryS1 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:00 pm

Seppuku, I am really interested in Arab culture. It's my goal to travel to Morocco in the next year or so. I have not had much contact with Muslim girls, mostly Christian Syrian and Assyrians.

After reading and talking to my friends about Arab culture, it seems that there's a bigger group dynamic over there. People are more invested in family, girls go out in groups, and displaying intimacy is forbidden. That's the exact opposite of what I do here!

Can't wait to read more about it, I'm definitely subscribed!
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:41 am

I agree, I'm keen to hear more about the gaming with kids side too. I'm divorced with 3 boys aged 6, 5 and 4 who I have every Wednesday and every second weekend. When I'm with my kids I tend to focus on "long game", because I have a pretty solid routine and I have women in all the different places we go... zoo, aquarium, chocolate shop etc... though recently I've started to burn it down, zoo chick and aquarium chick nogo it seems, chocolate shop is a maybe... I find daygame not really possible with kids because of their age, my concern is if I go direct "I noticed how cute you look" and she seems partway receptive then I need to focus my attention on her until I can get her relaxed and sharing, if I have to attend to the kids (give them water, break up fights, take them to the toilet etc) then it will disturb the flow. Having said that, GC is not just about pickup it's about self improvement, so I make a habit of talking to mums and whatnot whenever I'm out with the kids. I'd be keen to hear your experiences Seppuku and how they contrast with mine, how old are your kids BTW? Also do u have some help (while you are at work e.g.) because it would be good to reserve some time for yourself to practice daygame I think.

cheers, Ray
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:20 pm

Hey Barry,

From what I have seen, the Arab culture is another conservative culture from a traditional society. You know, the no sex before marriage, arranged marriages between families, etc... Here in the Gulf you have some cases where the spouses meet for the first time at their wedding. There is also a culture of no public display of affection and "dress modestly". You will also find that muslim girls have a *huge* social pressure to marry with muslims only; if you're not muslim you will face pressure to marry the girl and adopt islam. Dating pre-marriage is frowned upon.

If you want an easier taste of arabic culture you should maybe try christian lebanese / syrian girls, which are gorgeous by the way... Things will be easier but again, you'll find that they're often from a conservative education.

That's my take from what I have seen at least! No judgement, but personally I have chosen for now to avoid muslim girls and all that sort of complications.

Seppuku
PS Of course things are never all that clear cut and I'm sure you can find exceptions; the arabic families that settled in the West tend to have much less strict views on dating and relations.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:45 pm

Hello Ray,

My kids are 12 and 7, so maybe a little bit easier, but agreed, difficult to do the direct approach with compliments when you have your children watching you. I have the impression that the indirect approach will be more practical; I had already a number of "they're so cute" comments that make a good entry point into a conversation. The tricky part will be the transition. In my last post regarding Natasha the waitress I went to the counter, leaving kiddies on their own, and then made the compliment far from them.

Yet for now the main question I face is about logistics. For one girl I had late september, I found it practical to introduce her to the kids. They got used to her, liked her, so now I bring her home three times a week and take her to the bedroom after they're in bed. I also get occasional help at home from a nanny when I go out on a date. I have her put the kids to sleep before 9. If I'm about to return, I call her and tell her she can go home, so the living room will be available if I bring my date back (this scenario has not occurred yet but I'm working on it actively :-)

More post planned! The next one about Karen, the nanny in question :-) lol.

Cheers!
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby BarryS1 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:20 pm

Seppuku wrote:
If you want an easier taste of arabic culture you should maybe try christian lebanese / syrian girls, which are gorgeous by the way... Things will be easier but again, you'll find that they're often from a conservative education.


Those are my favorite, even here in the U.S.! :D

Is that the type you are going for too?

EDIT:

One of my Jewish friends in the U.S. dated/slept with an Islamic girl w/o her friends or family knowing. He said she would introduce him as "my friend". When I move to a larger city, I will try this out with the girls here.
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Early september - Karen

Postby Seppuku » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:40 am

When I arrived in Doha in August I was resuming my job immediately, yet my kids would be at home all day long until school starts in September. A connection introduced me to Karen who was available for afternoon part time job. OK so her task would be to be present for the kids and do a minimum of household maintenance and cleaning. Karen is a 25 yrs old Filipina, probably 1m70 high, long dark her, sexy almond eyes and appealing curvy shapes, and I liked her immediately... But well, I'm the Boss. On initial interactions I touched her arms and her reaction was smooth but soon we were into the boss - employee routine, so I decided not too spill my beans too much at this stage and wait until she's no longer working for me. The moment came early September; what I needed is something sharp that put me without any ambiguity in the proper frame. My initial plan was a direct call.

    Sep 3rd. Finally the first free moment to contact Karen is at 21:30. I go for the Whatsapp text rather than the call. My goal for now is to plant the frame, rather than actually securing a date. I text "I find you a very pretty young woman with a charming personality. Couldn't tell you before as I was your boss!" "thank you, u make my heart big... hahahahahaha" "I propose we meet over a fruit juice. Do you have some time this week-end? Like after 8pm?" "Ok sir, I will just let you know" [typical filipino style lame excuse]. "Meanwhile, can I ask you to send me a picture of you? a recent one?" When I text a girl nowadays, I always ask her for a picture as a form of compliance request. She immediately sends me a nice one. Well I don't expect much feedback from her regarding my prop. But the idea now is for me to recontact her, this time by phone directly, and ask again. But first, some radio silence.

    Sep 8th. By 21:45 I call Karen. We have a 30 minutes discussion on the phone. I use my sexiest voice. I set the frame without ambiguity, this is about having a date. I repeat my compliments done last week over text and make sure they have impact. "Thank you for the picture [...] beautiful almond eyes and sexy smile" "Before you engage with a boyfriend, don't you want to know him a little bit better first?" "You and me we are the same! I suggest we meet on Wednesday at the Kempinski hotel". When she starts along the "I will let you know" way, I mention its not an answer then embark into personal questions "Are you seeing someone?" "Have you been with a western guy?" "Have you been with a 40+ old man?" "Are there any boys around you these days?" etc... to which she willfully answers. About being open with my interest: "I use to keep these things for myself when I was younger... But what is the point?" "I hope these direct questions don't make you uncomfortable" it appears they don't. So she had a boyfriend in the Philippines but they broke up as he could not wait for her; her problem now is to trust a man; and no, she's never been with a western or 40+ man. I tell her I will be waiting for her at the main entrance of the City Center shopping mall at 8 pm on Wednesday, please don't make me wait 30 minutes. She says she will do her best. "No, don't tell me that!" OK let us see if she is going to show up or not. After the call, we follow up with 30 minutes of whatsapp exchange about the Philippines.
In hindsight the justification for the date (knowing each other) was lame and not useful, and the "No, don't tell me that" was too defensive. For the rest I have achieved some objectives: I have expressed my interest clearly, I set myself out of the Boss frame, and I have planted the picture of her being with a 40+ western man (I believe in planting ideas). We also have the principle of a date.

    10 Sep. Early morning I have a Whatsapp message from Karen. "Sir, is it OK if we meet next time? Because this time I still feel shy..." Aha. I like the fact that she is asking for my permission. "If you're telling me that you feel shy, of course I understand! But next time you will feel the exact same shy. That's why it is a good idea to meet nevertheless. [...] We can make it short, like one hour. I also suggest to change the venue. We still meet at 8pm city center [...] Have a nice day ahead." I make a concession to make the whole thing appear less intimidating. Anyway if she comes, it won't matter anymore and we can still do a 2hr date on whichever venue. For now, let us see if she follows my lead. Otherwise we will start it again slower.

    ... And it is a flake. There was no answer whatsoever to my previous message, so I go at the agreed place and wait fifteen minutes. Nobody, no message, nothing. Her whatsapp is showing a last seen time of 16:29 namely 4 hours ago...Her phone could be off. After fifteen minutes of waiting I return home. It occurs to me that I haven't built enough comfort with her. Coming from a higher status, I need to work my attainability by relating more.

    14 Sep. 21:55 Quick call to Karen. Try to build some more connection and comfort. "So you don't want to see me? That make me so sad!" (smiling sexy voice). "Yes sure, because I'm shy!" (giggles). "Last time I did speak to you quite straightforwardly, maybe you're not used to this?" "You sound sleepy, do I wake you up?" Apparently she had a quick sleep but was about to go out to buy food. Communication is smooth, she's not trying to escape or something. I ask her about her ex-boyfriend. It was her first boyfriend. They met when she was seventeen, been with him 3 years then he left to Japan, and she left to Qatar, and they did not meet in five years... And two years ago he found a wife. This is still so present in her mind. "You must have loved him a lot! But long distance relationships are not easy!" I emphasize my first serious girlfriend, my best memory. "That was long ago - I am older then you" "how old are you sir?" She forgot "Well I already told you, but if you forgot, then I'm not saying again :-)" Tone is relaxed, calm, cool, low voice. "And you haven't been with someone since then?" "No sir, because only work and sleep..." I mention that I had a 22 year old girlfriend last year from eastern europe, and stability issue quite draining. (Hoped to see her qualifying). Also communicate some pre-selection hopefully. OK, so "we don't see each other but I hope we still speak to each other" "Yeah". I leave her and promise to recontact her.
After that, I haven't pursued the interaction further as I was busy bring other women on the loop... But we had more chances to interact and I think she did telegraph me some interest.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:19 am

This is a difficult one, changing a frame once it's been set requires incredible patience, consistency and calibration... considering that, you did pretty good. Some comments though.

Firstly you could try being a bit less direct in your intentions... she should be thinking "OMG is he interested or is he not... am I good enough for him?" and the way you can do this is with some double entendre or letting her fill in the gaps... it's hard to think of an example off the bat, but my latest journal post has something that would apply to your situation... "Karen, you really are extremely charming... " blah blah "you charmed my children... and you didn't stop there, did you?" accompanied with a sexual smile or even a wink... so instead of saying "I feel charmed by you" you let her fill in the gaps and figure out what you mean. Or just saying sexual stuff... "So how was your test?" "It was hard" "Oh but you like hard things don't you... was it long as well?"... etc... again, let her fill in the gaps. As Franco mentioned to me in response to an early question of mine, you don't want to reference sex between you and her directly, it can scare them off.

Sercondly it was bad to let her hold leverage over you in regards to the date... again you can check out my next-to-last journal post, the Korean woman called Yeonhee... she was busy Tue... I was busy Wed and Thu... she wouldn't commit to Fri, seemed to be saying she might have to meet her friends or some such... so instead of leaving it as a "maybe" on Fri. thus implying I'd have to leave it open until she confirmed... I just said "oh well in that case let's try for next week some time, we can stay in touch by text" or similar... once she feels she can dick you around like this it's pretty much all over, although you already gave her a fair bit of power by declaring your intentions up front... and after being stood up you were probably too keen to re-engage and too forgiving, don't be afraid to say when they're of line... this silly cutesy "I'm shy" stuff is probably a bit of an act, she wouldn't do that with a dude she's keen to fuck and to fuck like yesterday. That's where you need to be.

Honestly though, these days the amount of effort I'm willing to put into any one woman is not much... when you do daygame you usually send them a text 1-4 hours after meeting (called the icebreaker text) and these days if they don't respond to the icebreaker I basically NEXT them straightaway, although I might make an exception in the case of Yeonhee because we invested in a pretty long interaction, so it's probably worth one more text just to make sure she's really not interested. I guess you probably felt pretty invested in Karen since you'd spent some months getting to know her and thinking about your being together. Which is only natural. So it was worth burning it down. But even better, avoid this kind of investment!!

cheers, Ray
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:43 pm

Hey Ray,

ray_zorse wrote:Firstly you could try being a bit less direct in your intentions... she should be thinking "OMG is he interested or is he not... am I good enough for him?"

Agreed. The only reason I did this is because I wanted some powerful electric shock to get out of the Boss frame.

ray_zorse wrote:Sercondly it was bad to let her hold leverage over you in regards to the date... again you can check out my next-to-last journal post, the Korean woman called Yeonhee... she was busy Tue... I was busy Wed and Thu... she wouldn't commit to Fri, seemed to be saying she might have to meet her friends or some such... so instead of leaving it as a "maybe" on Fri. thus implying I'd have to leave it open until she confirmed... I just said "oh well in that case let's try for next week some time, we can stay in touch by text"

That's very good stuff, I will apply it! By the way I will find time to read your journal.
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September 24 - discovering WeChat

Postby Seppuku » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:17 pm

Sep 24. Today my old blackberry has crashed and since it's a company phone I have to return it to be replaced. So I have now to load all apps again, and I take the chance to look for new apps, especially messaging apps. Whatsapp is very good but let's see some others... and I end up installing WeChat. Well I understand that WeChat is not well known in the West yet, but it is already well established in Asia. I quickly find out that it has a feature called People Nearby, I start it, and surprise! There are lots of profiles of connected users, men, women, with pics, and all located withn 10 kms. It is possible to send a "Greeting" which is like a friend invite in FB. Have I accidentally unveiled the hidden secrets of Qatar dating?

Within 24 hours I have sent maybe 20 greetings to ladies with good looking profiles. Then I have my first invitation accepted by Carmelita. We spend part of the afternoon chatting. In the evening, we exchange pictures and she is a very good looking Philippines lady, 40 years old, we discuss our relationship status and setup a date for Friday 26. Later on in the evening I chat with Tracy, a 29 years old Filipina, pretty cute. She's working night shifts. The conversation is left open. The next day morning Tracy texts me first around 7:30 meaning that she's interested in keeping the connection.
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26 Sep. Date with Carmelita - the power of touching

Postby Seppuku » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:41 pm

In the afternoon, while at the swimming pool, I re-engage with Carmelita. I want to feel if she is going to flake or not. "Tonight after 8 pm I am meeting with a charming woman and I haven't thought what I'm going to wear!" Not too bad. It compliments her, but at the same time I give her a chance to tell me if she's not planning to come. "Don't worry about what to wear, you look great anyway!" "Now I'm in a good mood :-)" We chat over several things, cookbooks, her sisters, swimming, then I tell her "I really look forward to see you tonight at 8" then off.

At 8pm, I enter the lobby of Kempinski hotel, where we agreed to meet. On the sofa there is a pretty woman checking her phone. Her pretty face looks slightly older than from the pictures... but OMG her body screams sex. Miniskirt, perfect bare legs, high heels, slim body, long sexy hair... We smile and shake hands.

At the restaurant I work to establish comfort. I put on a warm smile and look straight into her eyes. I touch her hand on many occasions. She speaks of her boyfriend (who left the country several months back) and the miseries of a long distance relationship. I relate by explaining my story with Odile, a girlfriend of mine 17 years ago. I make her talk. I explain my married life and how I did not cheat in 15 years, although temptations. I explain my current life with my children. "But now that you're going to have a girlfriend, are they going to accept her?" In a sense this is good because she's projecting herself into the role. OK I explain that, in the end, this is no one else's problem than me. So now we have a very clear frame of relationship established.

Then it comes to pictures. I seat next to her and touch her bare arm while she hands me her phone. I show her some of my pictures. She complains about her nose. I tell her that all asians I have met complain about their nose. Next I have my hand over her hips for a brief period of time, then return to touching more her hand and arm. After I paid, I guide her to the exit with my hand on the small of her back.

We're heading now to the Intercontinental Hotel, Strata bar at 55th floor, which is right next to my building. She now speaks continuously, with no need from me to prompt her. I park at the parking of my building and we walk to the IC [this is something I do often now. When we come back to the parking later on I will have the option of inviting her home]. I take her hand as we walk. She reminds me it's Qatar and holding hands publicly is not allowed, so she takes my arm instead... and after a couple of minutes she takes my hand back in hers. "There are no Qataris in sight" I say. We reach the IC, there is an official reception there, and suddenly tens of Qataris around "Ooops. Ooops" I say. She laughs and take my arm. "You're sure taking the arm is allowed?" We reach the elevator. There are two highly sexy girls waiting. Carmel takes my arm again. In the elevator I put my arm around her waist on the opposite hip. I can tell the two sexy girls are paying attention to us with corner vision.

At the Strata bar we continue to chat but I now hold her hand all the time and start caressing her skin... which is extraordinarily soft, fresh and pleasant. I examine her perfect manucure and she elaborates the details of how it's done. I caress her whole arm back and forth, and at times caress her hair. At one point, I have my hand and her bare thigh. She keeps speaking, no help needed from me. The Filipina waitress is watching us and smiling. Finally I take the bill and we leave.

We hold each other around the waist. When we leave the elevator she takes my hand. We see many young women in miniskirts entering the hotel. "Surely if they can dress like this, we can hold hands?" I say. Out of the hotel, there are suddenly many Qataris around. "Ooops Ooops" she says, laughing. Her hand is around my arm now. After a couple of minutes, we are again hand in hand. When we get near my car, I pull her towards me and smile. We make a very brief kiss then get in the car. "Kissing in public not allowed" same story. Inside the car I am on her and kiss again. "Inside the car no one can see" but there is some resistance from her, she keeps the mouth closed. After a couple of tries, I start the engine and drive. As she is guiding me in Doha, we are now more silent... but now I have my right hand caressing her bare thigh continuously. Her skin is incredibly soft and smooth, OMG... Can't leave my hand now, it belongs there. She reengage the talk. I ask her to send me her phone number. She takes my number. She starts asking me questions like "Are you passionate?" to which I have answers like "maybe..." We finally arrive. I get close to her and kiss. This time it is more tender... but mouth closed. Before she exits, I want her to know that I liked it. "I really enjoyed myself tonight. I find that you are a very sweet woman.." "Really? I will give you a missed call so you can keep my number". After I reach home, I engage her briefly by text. She tells me again that I look great and have nice nose. On which I say "I actually LIKE your nose!" "Only my nose?" "No, not only your nose. The list would be long". "But I will only tell you little by little". "My Friday Cinderella, it is midnight!" and we wish each other good night.
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27 Sep to 3 Oct: A busy week!

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:51 am

What a busy week! WeChat is proving a very efficient way to meet interested women. I was pinging 15 to 20 women each day and starting getting results. I also had the second date with Carmelita which turned out to be a flop, no matter how good the first date was. I nevertheless ended up dating three women this week. Here are some of my notes for this week.

27 Sep. Marianne has accepted my invitation in WeChat and we engage in casual chatting throughout the day. In the evening I start serious deep diving with Marianne by text. She's a pretty 26 yrs old Filipina with a 3 yrs old daughter back in the Philippines. I build some rapport first then ask her out, with a time constraint: "I am going to travel abroad next week and was wondering if you would be available for a dinner before that?" Answer is finally negative. "Am hesitating". I can tell she likes me though, so I decide we need to build more comfort first. "OK we'll take more time to text each". "I'm not forcing anyone to do things they don't want, obviously!"

28 Sep. In the morning, I get a Whatsapp message from Marianne wishing me good morning. Later in the morning Carmelita contacts me to say she will have a training at the W hotel [very near my working place]... I take it as a hint that she wants to take the chance that she's near me, to meet. Bingo. We fail to arrange a business lunch but agree to meet right after business hours. Meeting at 4:20pm in a quiet area of the Kempinsky Lounge. We chat a bit about various things, but here she is with her gorgeous body and bare legs next to me. I caress her hair, kiss her in the neck and soon touch her legs. She starts getting nervous... Suddenly she is worried that I am not spending my time with my kids. "This is my worry, not yours. Let me worry about it!". Then she is worried people are going to watch us. I get her to look around and there are just two guests who obviously are not paying attention. But well. 6:45 pm we leave and I drive her back. In the car I again have my hand on her bare leg. Her skin is so smooth! Almost drives me mad. At a traffic light there is a bus full of construction workers. "They could see us!" OK so I put my hand on her leg, from below. "Now they can't see us!" When we reach her home, I try kissing her but face a big resistance. I get a peck on the lips. Obviously our second date is a flop and my mistake is all too evident, I have failed to rebuild comfort again before getting physical, instead, I just resumed where I left things on Friday. Big lesson, rebuild comfort first!

Later the same night I start engaging a serious chat with Marianne. I deep dive, plant the frame (qualities she looks for in a man, ...) and qualify her (what's her education degree?) then at some point, the interests shifts and she starts asking questions. The hook point! What's the reason for my divorce, etc... In the end, she tells me "Now I am ready to meet you face to face!" We further agree to meet on Wednesday evening.

29 Sep. Chinese beauty Ina accepts my invitation on WeChat. She's 30, working as massage probably in W hotel. I initially suspect a prostitute. I ask her a picture - if she's a prostitute she probably either won't give away a picture for free or will send something aggressive to tease me. Ina sends me back 3 pics immediately and she's beautiful. I send her a picture of me business style. She says I look good, and that it's real (she means it). I ask her if she has a boyfriend and she says yes. She's open and honest. I tell her I appreciate. I also connect with Kathy who turns out being a married woman at home. Communication is not too straightforward and she declines my pic request. Marianne spontaneously sends me a picture of her. In the evening I call Carmelita. We talk a few things, mainly about our latest date. I know I made her uncomfortable. "You noticed?" Test: I mention that I am going to be free to go out on Thursday or Friday. "We'll see!" OK this means no. "OK as you like!". Then I go silent on her.

30 Sep. In the morning, Tracy is back to me. We chat and I inform her on my upcoming vacations. I tell her I will get a tablet and install WeChat on it so we can go ahead with video calls. Marianne starts telling me about the health problems of her sister, her need for 5000 Riyals and how she's been begging her boss for an advance. Well that sounds not good and makes me cold. In the evening though we chat and she asks me to call her "I want to hear your voice!" we further discuss on the phone - I take my nightly sexy voice of course. She obviously does the same and her voice is nice, sweet and sexy.

1 Oct. Marianne is now asking me to lend her the money. What the fuck, it makes me mad. OK, so I revert to her and tell her 1. date tonight canceled, and 2. we will meet briefly on Friday instead. The rest of the day she's in drama mode, tears etc... Besides, I am now connected to Jenalyn, a 40 yrs old Filipina at the reception desk of my building. Some chat with Ina; she says she is now in W Hotel so not far. It infers that she is employed by W to massage. In the evening, Marianne is back with more drama. I call her to defuse the drama. OK I can see she's sincere and actually a good person in distress.

2 Oct. Can't believe. In the morning I make a round of invites in WeChat and one girl reverts to me almost instantly, and she's a beauty. Rachel is a 31 old Philippines girl. We exchange on our relationship status and our respective miseries. We exchange pictures. She says I look good. She qualifies herself. I tell her I am going on a vacations 2 days from now. She actually ask "So I will meet you tomorrow for some time? What do you think?" So she's asking for the date, that's good. We agree on seeing each other on Friday evening. More chat happens with Rachel in the late afternoon. We decide that we both like movies.

3 Oct. I meet Marianne in the City Center mall at 11am. She behaves shy. She's actually cute, very feminine, good feminine shapes. We go for a drink in a coffee shop. I tell her that it's best we put the date idea on hold for now. She first needs to go through those difficult times of her life first before thinking of romantic involvement. She grabs my hand and hold it tight. After about 45 minutes I leave. Later during the day she texts me many times. I barely answer. She's probably did not get (or not want to get) my point on putting the date idea on hold!

I try pinging Ina as I go to W hotel to book a table at a restaurant there. Is she on duty today? Yes. "I'm at the W." "Why?" "Passed by at italian restaurant" "OK" "Are you working here?" "No". So my god, if not employed by W, where is she working and what is her job. I again think she might be a prostitute. More small talk. I ask "Do you have a day off?" no answer, the channel goes silent. At the restaurant, I ask for a table for two for tonight and mention it is a date. The waitress tells me she can arrange something nice.

I will detail the date with Rachel in my next post.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:49 am

Hey Seppuku mate I don't want to offer too much comment/critique/opinion if it's not asked for, but it occurred to me you might be taking away the wrong message from your interaction with Carmelita and so it seemed important enough to jump in.

My analysis would be that on date one she was practically throwing herself at you, and all you had to do was get her to a seduction location and close the deal. This figures because at 40 she should know her own mind.

What you could have done was when you were going to leave the hotel say "It's still early, let's go for another drink... I'll take you to a place I know with great music where the drinks are really cheap"... then lead her back to your apartment. On the way she'll probably ask where she's going, just say "you'll see"
or as I did recently, squeeze her hand and say nothing.

By not acting you missed a big window (again my analysis based on the information in your post, not authoritative), and missing windows makes women go cold on you. Usually they really hate you after a missed window (because they feel like a slut and that they've taken a risk in opening up to you and it's backfired)... but in this case even after you disqualified yourself as lover material you still had significant boyfriend value, so she's resumed contact but slowed things right down.

Definitely don't take any crap about how you made her feel uncomfortable at face value, that's all bullshit. I just didn't want you to take away the message you need to move slower, cos you need to move faster bro.

cheers, Ray
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:43 am

Hey Ray,

For Carmelita, I did not know what to make of her resistance to the kiss on our first date. But true, I can see very well in hindsight how right you are. I can see how it would have worked better. More learning to do, obviously...

Anyway, thanks for advice!
Seppuku
PS. You're absolutely welcome to comment!
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October 3 - date with Rachel

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:21 pm

I take and accept Ray's point that I should have taken Carmelita straight to home on my first date. She was most probably hoping for it but hoped it would be coming from me so she could deny responsibility. Yes, it is Girlschase main message, too. I am not familiar with the idea of first date lay but I am here to learn, so I hope to improve this in my future interactions. And by the way you guys feel free to comment at all times. Yet, in the case of Rachel for tonight's date, logistics was fully impossible as my ex-wife was visiting us and staying with the kids at home [while I was out dating, lol]. In Qatar, sex in other places than home is strictly NOT recommended.

At 7 pm I meet Rachel at the city center (same place I met Marianne earlier this day). She just sent me another selfie that she just took with her shorter hair. She's beautiful and has an easy, friendly and accommodating personality. We walk to the W hotel to the restaurant, and they have organized a table with a rose on it plus many petals all over the table. I tell Rachel I told them I was coming on a date with a woman and they said they would do "something nice", but I did not expect something that obvious. To me it's too much but she seems to like it. We talk about our former love lives and I get her story with her husband. Quite a sad one, to be honest. Then we show pictures. I take the chance to move by her side and touch her as we view her pics. She shows me her varnished nails and I take the chance to take her hands. I tell her "now that you cut your hair, I can tell you that I prefer longer hair!" After the dinner we decide to walk to the Intercontinental Hotel, at Strata bar [my favorite date location, because of the city view from 55th floor]. On the way there, I try guiding her with arm on waist or by holding her arm. She says that it's her last time with short hair (probably her compliance with what I said earlier). We agree to put her bag in my car. After that on our way to Strata I take her hand. Reaction is to hold my arm. Then slowly hand again. We do the way partially hand in hand. In the elevator I again take her arm. Upstairs, we find the Strata bar is closed. There are windows, though, and while we look at the view, I gently lay my hands on her. Strata is closed for the beginning of Eid Al Kebir [a religious holiday]. OMG. I plan to take her to the Marriott. On our way, she remembers her 10pm curfew [many workers here have a curfew - doors close at a given time]. Suddenly we have to rush back to my car. In the car, I ask her hand in mine and she complies. Before she leaves, I approach my face to hers, smile and wait. She smiles and gives me her cheek. I do not kiss. She gives in and finally kiss me on the lips - a gentle reasonable kiss but kiss nevertheless. Later we chat for some time and I give her a quick call. She has left the rose in my car [she had kept it from the restaurant]. After I return from the car with the rose, we joke that my ex wife could have find it.

The next day I will leave Qatar for a 2 weeks vacation in France while my ex-wife keeps the children in Doha. This is my first time in France as a single since 1997. About Rachel, she will become my girlfriend about a month later but of course I don't know it yet.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:18 pm

In regards to Carmelita I forgot to mention that kissing in public is a definite no no (in Chase's words)... I thought you might be interested to read the following pair of FRs from September this year involving a date of mine that went like the date with Carmelita, hence my first hand knowledge haha:
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7700
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7938
In this you can see what Chase said about kissing in public and about being too honest about your pickup ambitions... in retrospect I also see I moved much too slowly and should have pulled her home, didn't and slid into boyfriend territory and ultimately got friendzoned... for an example of kissing in public and having it go well, and pulling her home with plausible deniability, see this:
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8741
These are only a few months apart, illustrating it's possible to address your previous errors in every outing and improve fast :) Sounds like you are also hitting the dating scene hard and gaining experience rapidly :) I'm keen to hear about France :)

cheers, Ray
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:06 am

Hey Ray,

I loved your LR with this Chinese girl Elle! That was a very smooth pull, congrats!

About kissing in public, I did not know that, so thanks for the tip. The question I have now is, if you know you won't be able to pull the girl at home, for logistics reason for instance, and you're having a date with her, are you going to let her go home without at least a kiss?

Anyway ideally, I agree, the best is to build up sexual tension, then bring her home, and kiss her as part of the sexual escalation process. My goal is to reach this point.

Cheers,

Seppuku
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Oct 4th. Experiments with eye contact

Postby Seppuku » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:04 am

It's just been a busy week, where suddenly after months of getting nothing, I suddenly get dates with three girls in 6 days, plus two other contacts in waiting. I have to reassess what I thought of online dating. I had tried POF and some other sites before and I had found them useless. But this WeChat worked like magic to get me dates. It saves time by browsing quickly through the numbers and finally retain only those girls who are attracted. It will definitely slow down my learning curve on day game and direct approach, but on the other hand will help me a lot with the many other aspects of the game required to turn dates into lays. Second, it will help me develop the confidence, abundance mentality and outcome independence all useful for day game.

For now I am off to France for a two weeks vacation on my own. In the plane I experiment with eye contact and touch. The flight attendant is a cutie, probably Chinese. When she comes by to serve the drink I lock my eyes into hers, hold her gaze and smile. This is not casual eye contact, this is deep eye contact, where you try to see her soul. She smiles back warmly. When she gives me the glass I gently touch her hand. Next time she passes by she looks straight into my eyes and smile. Then she becomes a bit flirty. Seems efficient, now she is asking for more! Should I pursue with her? I decide that she is not pretty enough though. Cute face but otherwise tall and skinny, not my type. Yet, let us see if she's motivated. Later on I go next to her in the attendant cabin and ask for a glass of water then stays around a little bit. I want to see if she's going to start engaging a chat, or give me approach invites... and she does not.

This eye contact thing seems powerful enough! During my stay in France I tried more experiments of the same kind with sales girls in shops; the response was generally positive so it is something I have to use more! In one case, though, the girl sustained my gaze persistently and I found it almost challenging me. While speaking to her I held her gaze; it lasted one minute or more and finally she broke eye contact first by looking at the side.
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Oct. 13th. An easy lay

Postby Seppuku » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:03 am

My trip to France turned out to be less eventful as I hoped. The weather was shitty all the time so no long daygame sessions in Paris. Instead I spent my time visiting relatives and long term friends.

Now to the lay. Well guys, this was an easy one, I don't think it really deserves an LR. We can view this as long term game. Stella was my girlfriend 20 years ago, and since then, I married, she married, I divorced, and she is in the process of divorcing. In the meantime she's been chasing me all the time. In 1999 she found my email and contacted me. In 2008 she found my facebook and contacted me. She managed to connect with all my family and friends, too. And since then she's been constantly initiating chats on FB. We have chatted again and again on our marital lives so we are very much up to date on the topic.

On October 12 I came to Rennes (a large city west of France) to visit my all time buddy there, so inevitably there are some FB pictures posted and Stella finds out I'm in Rennes - she lives 20 km away. She contacts me using Facebook messenger. She implies that she will have her next morning available. I ask her if this is an invitation for a coffee. Yes. Now guys when I asked that, I was naively expecting a meeting in a local cafe, but she actually meant a meeting at her place. So I agree to bring some coffee with me and come the next day to her place.

13 Oct. Meeting with Stella. I arrive 50 minutes late as I was caught in a traffic jam. We haven't seen each other since 1995, 19 years! She opens the door... And she's probably more pretty now than she was then! She has some hair coloration, and got womanly shapes. Still beautiful blue eyes and warm smile. I touch her arm as we kiss hello on cheeks. She prepares the coffee and we start chatting on the sofa. We go through a mutual tour of our married lives and chat for maybe an hour. She asks me to stay for lunch. She's definitely not into cooking so I prepare the lunch and cook. I'm still unsure of what to do next. After the lunch, as she starts preparing a second round of coffee, I decide that leaving as just friends won't do. Her smile wins me... I lead her to the sofa with a hand on her waist. She has a pleased surprised expression on her face. "I am going to be a little familiar!" and as we sit I put my arm over her shoulders and pull her towards me. "I did not expect..." she says :-) Of course not Stella, I think. You invite the guy you've been chasing 20 years at home and did not expect this, lol.

She puts her head on my shoulder. We stay some time like that as I caress her hair, softly touch her hands. Her cheeks become very warm and red. Soon we are kissing each other very gently and softly. I have my hands on her body. I touch her tit gently then move my hand over. We kiss deeper, tongue. I am caressing her whole body and hold her tit. I start kissing the exposed part of her tit. Soon I extract her nipple and suck it. My hand is on her ass. She has her hand on my belt and gently unbuckle it. She has now her tit out and I'm still sucking it. I start removing her trouser. Not yet fully removed but I have now my hand on her bare bottom. Trousers removed, shirt removed... It's black underwear on white skin. I caress her pussy through the pantie. I am now in underwear too. We move upstairs where her bedroom is. It's dim. She's now standing fully naked in my arms. I caress her whole body and kiss her then we lay on the bed and I start shagging her... For a good 30 minutes. We then lay in each other's arms silently for some time. We dress then kiss before parting.

In the evening she texts me and says that she feels good :-)
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18th October. Back to Doha - Aimee, Badoo and texting dynamics.

Postby Seppuku » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:46 am

On my trip back to Doha I had to make a brief overnight stop to Beirut for personal matters. At the check in counter in Paris, the waitress is a young gorgeous lady with a flirty smile. When she reads my passport she voices my first name, I say "nice meeting you", she answers same, "my name is Sabrina by the way..." I have a couple of humorous comments to which she laughs, then before leaving I gaze her deeply in the eyes and tell her "you have very beautiful eyes" and smile. She answers with a warm smile and says "that compliment goes straight to my heart, thank you!" "Personal policy, when I think it, I say it". I turn and leave and start thinking that I could have asked for her phone... Well I am about to depart and she's at work, so logistics is very bad, but maybe longer term game? In Beirut, I am checking out of the hotel. At the reception desk of the hotel there is this young and pretty brunette, absolutely gorgeous. I approach with an initial neutral expression then smile to break the tension. She smiles back. As she prepares the bill I ask her "and your name is?" "Arianne". After I paid, I lock my eyes into hers, smile, lean towards her then say softly, almost whispering, with a sexy tone: "and you have beautiful eyes!" She suddenly have a shining smile! Her face literally illuminates. Saying goodbye, I look deeply into her eyes again. She breaks eye contact looking down. Then I'm off to Beirut airport.

As said in a previous post, I am ready to do more online game as WeChat proved very helpful. Again, I still have loads to learn on direct approach and day game. But in the meantime I think online game can really help me with other parts of gaming. Online game allows to browse through numbers and to pre-select only those girls who are readily interested, based on fundamentals (essentially the profile pics). It short circuits many early steps of gaming and put you straight into dates. The focus in now on the later stages, namely date-to-bed. Having multiple dates also puts you in a better mindset, a mindset of abundance and pre-selection. So I decided to install Badoo on my tablet... and immediately on-boarded new women. On Oct. 17th I get in touch with Aimee, a 30 years old sexy Filipina working in Doha. We quickly switch to Whatsapp which is a much more convenient chat platform than Badoo, then go on to deep diving, exchanging pics and voice messages. Then I start getting loads of shit tests. When I tell her I have my children with me, her reaction is initially sharp. "You need to sort out your life!" Well, truth is that it's already pretty sorted, I tell her. "I am not a woman for you", etc... and in general I think I manage to pass her tests quite well.

When I finally reach Doha airport I have messages from Stella, Aimee and Marianne asking me if I reached safely. Ever since I met her the day before my departure, and asked her to put a date idea on hold, Marianne has been texting me diligently two to three times a day, wishing me to "take care always" etc... Aimee sends me more sexy pictures of her. In the evening, I have more text exchanges with Rachel as well. In general since end of september, and until now as I am writing this, I have had an uninterrupted stream of text messages with at least two or three different girls every day. I must say this is a complete change in dynamics compared to a month ago.
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21 October - 2nd date with Rachel

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:35 am

Still in the process of brwosing through my notes for the important events of this last 6 months. Goal is to catch up to today then go into a normal day to day journaling mode

21 Oct. I pick her up at her place then drive all the way back to my apartment and park in my basement parking spot. On our way to the Intercontinental Hotel, I take her hand. When we reach public places, she drops my hand. We reach the buffet restaurant and sit in a quiet place and casually chat as we're having our dinner. Later she wants to show me some pictures and as I come closer, I kiss her on the lips, soft and short. After the dinner, we're holding hands and moving to the Strata bar at 55th floor. There, as we're having soft drinks and enjoying the city view, we continue deep diving into each others stories. I am holding her hand and caressing the skin of her arm which is incredibly soft. At some point, I break the contact intentionally to see if she reengages. And now she's reaching her hand towards me to touch me. I take her hand back and restart. We have a good emotional bonding. In the elevator, I am holding her by the waist. We walk back to my parking and when we're out of public spot I hold her hand again. We're now close to her curfew (10 pm! Yes guys that's the reality for a lot of people working in Qatar) so well I will content myself with the kiss for now. As we reach my car, I draw her into my arms and kiss her. As I drive her back, my hand is on her leg and her hand is on mine. Before I let her go we have another kiss. At this stage, the kisses are still short and soft. She is still not fully giving herself into it.

Later the evening, she texts me "Let take it slow ok? BF/GF status after we're sure of each others feelings". "I get your point, but do you get mine? I am 45, not 18", I answer. I like this line. By this I mean to convey that I will not have the patience to be fooled around like a teenager, but at the same time it keeps her guessing. As she asks about what I meant I tell her it's late and we can continue the discussion later. Well done, I did not surrender to her frame.
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24 October and beyond - onset of relationship with Rachel

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:38 am

I decide that it will be helpful if I officialize her with respect to my children. That will simplify a lot of logistics issue, especially regarding her 10 pm curfew. At the same time she is a beautiful and very sweet woman and I don't mind starting a relationship with her. So we agree that she'll come to my home on Friday (week-end day in the gulf...), meet my children and have a cooking date.

24 Oct. Cooking date with Rachel. Kids and myself pick her up at her home right after our swimming pool, then all go to my place. I don't kiss her right away. When we're in the kitchen we start preparing the dinner. I try a kiss, and it feels much warmer than previously. Lots of touching now from both sides. She prompts me to touch her belly and check the tummy. She's very thin and there's nearly nothing to worry about. She now touches me a lot, belly, chest, arms, face... I go for the second kiss... and now get a real one, warm, open mouth. Wow. At some point I stop soliciting her kiss and touch, and she engages me. After dinner we're both in the kitchen and finish cleaning dishes. We're alone, kids in the next room. I take her in my arms, hold her close and engage into a long and passionate kiss. I am caressing her bare arms, and also kissing her in the neck. The kiss goes on and she is now turning on. She starts caressing my arms too, and her hands move up to my shoulders under my tee shirt. My hands go down on her body and I hold her bottom briefly. She is getting aroused, I can tell from her breathing. Reality catches up ultimately as my children are just next door, and we have to cool down. We watch a movie with my kids and she is in my arms all the time. We're touching and caressing each other in the meantime. After I drive her back, we have a very tender kiss before departing.

28 Oct. Rachel spends the evening with us. We prepare the dinner then eat... few kisses in the kitchen... Then we watch the cartoons with the kids. Rachel is in my arms all the time and I caress her bare legs. Her skin is soft. While watching I take her hand and kiss her fingers then gently take then in my mouth. She likes it. Next she gives me her hand, and put her fingers in my mouth again and again. When kids are in bed we engage into a very passionate kiss. She literally eats me. I have my hand on her legs, then up under the skirt on her bottom. I am now caressing her whole body as I kiss her neck. She soon gets on top and continues the passionate kiss as she presses herself against my body and my dick through the trousers. She has a very sexy underwear. I start kissing her small but cute tits "they are very beautiful!" then start kissing her legs then go slowly upwards. She stops me short before I reach her pussy. "OK not now! But I will eventually kiss every single place I like!" I gently fondle her pussy through the panties as we continue kissing. It's past 9:30 and we need to leave in 10 minutes, so we both agree that it's best to take the time to make love properly for our first time, and stop here for now. I finally drive her back home. Wow I don't remember ever have been kissed like this.

31 Oct. I pick up Rachel at 10:30 and bring her home. We have our first kiss in my car before coming to my apartment. Greetings to children... then I take her discreetly to my bedroom. We have a passionate kiss on my bed and my hands are all over her. We then go to the kitchen and start preparing the food. I bring my son to a birthday party then we take daughter out at the park, then mall. As we come back, I tell my daughter that we are going to take a little rest in my bedroom. I bring Rachel in my bedroom and we immediately start kissing passionately. I lock my door then we're on the bed. This time my hands start to wander beneath her panties. I have her take off her bra and as I kiss her bare breast my finger meets her pussy. She takes off her trousers and I am now playing with her pussy. Her kisses are very passionate, softly biting me. I take off my tee shirt and she now kisses my torso. There is now no coming back. I take out my trousers then pants. I remove her pantie. I take a condom. "Before putting my hat I want to feel you!" and I penetrate her. A few there and back then out and I put a condom. The shagging starts... We're finally out of the bedroom and spend the rest of the evening socially with the kids, dinner and movie. We have a tender kiss in the car when I drop her home.

From now on I am seeing Rachel regularly three times a week. The kids have accepted her very well so most of the time she's at home with us.
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25 October. Following up on my interactions

Postby Seppuku » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:20 am

So I am on-boarding Rachel in my life. She's a beauty and a nice woman. Given my circumstances (single dad with kids) I decide it will be convenient to officialize my relationship with her to my kids so that I can bring her home regularly. Logistics is a big thing in this country (It's Qatar, a Muslim country). There is no fucking in public place (it's prison) or in the car - even holding hands in public not allowed. And many girls like Rachel have a curfew such as 10pm, designed to prevent this sort of things precisely, and they can't bring a guy at home. OK so I took Rachel home and presented her to my kids, we had a cooking date, and things at this stage are warming up.

But... I can't just give up my on-going seduction learning process. I am with Rachel but all the logistics constraints mean that I still have a lot of time on my own. She can't establish herself in my home, she can't stay overnight, and we can't meet more than three times a week. So there will be more time slots available to meet other women. The thing is, now my kids know Rachel I can't show them another girlfriend, it would be too much for them... Yet I'd like to take more women to bed. So the plan now is to have Karen (yes, that nanny from my previous post lol) babysit my kids in the evening and put them to bed at 9pm, while I'm out. When I'm about to come back (hopefully with a girl) I give her a call and tell her she can leave. The idea is to take the girl to the living room while my kids are sleeping.

So that's the plan at least (and the one I finally executed for the first time in my FR - Joanne). But for now I have several interactions going on.

    * Marianne is still sending me three messages a day (she's been doing so for one month now). I initially tried not to answer too often but she keeps sending diligently. On the 25th October she starts complaining I'm busy. I answer that yes, I am busy, "but remember what we discussed when we met" I refer to what I told her earlier, that we should put the dating plan on hold until all the difficult events in her life are sorted out. And from this day, she went cold. No more texts, and she blocked me on WeChat and Whatsapp. Ah girls...
    * Jenalyn had been pinging me on WeChat several times while I was on vacations to Paris. Well, I answered irregularly whenever I could. After my return when we meet (she is at the reception desk in my building) she sends me warm and sexy smiles. Problem is that it could turn messy as we meet everyday in my building. I am bringing Rachel home these days, and sooner or later she will find out. So I keep her low on my priority list... But soon, she auto-rejects.
    * Stella is sending me Facebook messages once in a while. We agree that we will meet when I return in France in Christmas vacations.
    * Ina and Tracy, my earlier WeChat contacts. Well I keep the contacts alive but basically try to save them for later. Ina has a boyfriend anyway so no need to put lots of efforts here.
    * Carmelita... I messaged her after I returned, just to check. Got a polite answer but well, no excitement now.
So there's Aimee left. In the week after my return, we've been in contact by Whatsapp regularly. The interaction was fiery. Ups, downs, lots of shit tests, then she goes silent, then comes back to me. Overall I think I avoided the pitfalls and traps. From my notes:

    * Oct 22nd: Aimee reengages me. At some stage I send her a selfie. "You like taking selfies, ha? And send to your chatmates ;-)" "Not really, but they're sending their selfies so I have to respond." It is now established that I have chatmates. "How is it, by the way?" OK so I accept the open chat. "But I expect you to be open in return!" I tell her about the three dates I got the week before vacations. "Of the three, I am still seeing one". She tells me of a date of hers that went wrong on Monday, and now asks me to introduce her to nice guys :-) for potential dating! I do not give in to the trap.
    * Oct 23rd. Aimee is back to me, and she sends me a nice selfie, and I compliment her. I joke her playfully throughout the day. "At work now. - Me too, busy morning. -Lol, busy with ur girlfriend? - At work? Not this kind of work unfortunately lol. - Hahahaha" etc...
On 25 Oct. after all the game going on with Aimee in the last week, I decide I have to do something. I ask her to meet on Monday, but she says she has work. Well I thought she had only morning shift that day. Then she sends a whole set of challenging questions. Why do you want to meet me? You have girl already. You don't have time for me. I don't think that will happen... etc... I avoid the "you have girl" argument by mentioning she's dating too. She seems resentful I did not ask her out last week. I make a token resistance, then conclude "Anyway I am not arguing. It's OK, I had to ask." And I know she will be back.

And bingo, by 8 pm she's back on my Whatsapp. "Can you meet me tomorrow?" we set up a meeting for the next day in Ezdan mall.
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October 26 - Date with Aimee

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:52 am

On Oct. 26 I finally have the date with Aimee.

She initially tries changing the plan at the last minute, asking me to pick her up in the Villagio Mall (which is far and very inconvenient for me, and not what we agreed). I stay firm. "I am coming to Ezdan Mall at 7pm as agreed and hope to see you there."

I meet her at the Ezdan - she managed a taxi to get there on her own lol - and from the start it doesn't tick, she avoids looking at me and my eyes. It makes an uncomfortable situation. She is otherwise pretty and wears a sexy dress.

In the car I ask her to unfold her hair and she does. I try to make her at ease, and try to make her speak but she barely speaks. She has her mystery smile and avoids my eyes. We reach the Lounge. As we eat, I start touching while talking to her. I take her hand and caress it, I have my arm over her waist, I caress her hair, I touch her bare leg and caress it. The touching is accepted. But she still is on the defense, and not fully giving into the date. Deep diving is difficult as she barely answers questions.

The fact that she avoids looking my eyes finally puts me off. After two hours together, I still could not make her comfortable and I drive her back. Before she leaves, I lean towards her and smile. She first gives me her cheek, but I don't give in. She finally gives me the kiss. Later I text her "You did not look like enjoying your time. It's OK, was nice meeting you". "What you mean? I enjoy. Why you think bad?" "You did not look into my eyes". "I'm not used to. You're such a nice man" "Am I?" "Yeah. Gentleman." "I'm a man and also have my selfish side". Etc...

And that was pretty much it with Aimee. Later in November and December she's been back in touch with me several times, and even sent me (spontaneously) some sexy pictures of herself in underwear. After that we agreed on a second date - but I got sick and had to cancel at the last minute. Since then her working contract in Qatar was cancelled and she was sent back to the Philippines. Today we're still in touch on Whatsapp.

It seems that she was into me after all. In retrospect I think she was used to dating much more aggressive guys and was very defensive when we met. One thing is sure, from my previous interactions with her she is an emotional roller coaster, and she would have required lots of energy, more than what I was prepared to give.
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November to Date - that's pretty much it!

Postby Seppuku » Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:18 am

As much as October was active, November was quiet. I was meeting Rachel three times a week (taking her at home) and had little time for meeting more girls, and in addition I got sick from a bad cold for most of the month. But I did not want to end my efforts at self improvement, so late November I started to work out a new logistics plan to free up some time, and I started the dynamics again on Badoo, building up new contacts and potential dates. As described somewhere else, the plan is to go on an evening date and bring back a girl home after 9pm when my kids are sleeping and the nanny's gone back home. That led me to the beginning of December when I started to actually date Joanne - described in my FR. The last date with her was on Dec 13th, then I was off the country for Christmas vacations with kids and family, and here I am now.

So that pretty much concludes the review of my personal notes from the last 6 months. Of course there is no case for complacency and compared to the more experienced guys in this forum I still have a long way to go. Yet, I have observed some progress:

* Fundamentals improved
* The beginning of a process
* Out of celibacy
* Took two girls to bed and still in touch with many more

So that's already a number of my early goals reached. Yet there is plenty of room for improvement. I need to take more women to bed and move further away from the Provider game.

* More qualification and compliance in my game
* Simplify dates and move faster

Another thing is I have slowed down the direct approach. Online dating allowed me to skip some of the early steps, get more dates and focus on the latter parts of the game. It's definitely helpful and useful learning, and in addition it starts building the abundance mentality. Yet I don't want to give up the direct approach learning curve, and that's another goal.

So from now on, I will be in real journaling mode, reporting events and monitoring progresses on the go instead of retrospectively.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ThrowDown » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:53 pm

Seems to me that online dating is doing many wonders for you! ;) I'm going to check it out for myself. Normally the old school approach is how I do things; however there are opportunities everywhere, especially in a world of technology advancement.

Congrats on your progress. :)
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:35 am

Hey ThrowDown,

Thanks and happy new year to you.

Online dating worked well for me in Qatar so far for two reasons I believe: 1. Upped my fundamentals, and 2. Higher relative status. The last point is because here, middle aged western expats here are usually well established professionals; and so far I have appealed to girls from the Philippines which are usually lower status. Well, I will be not ashamed of using every potential advantage I have on my way to learning. My goal for now is to learn later stages of the game, like taking the girl home and escalation.

Your "old school" approach is a great one, I am conscious I am missing whole avenues of pickup and plan to return there later on :-) If I can get some more abundance mentality and outcome independence with the online game, maybe it will help me with the approach anxiety!

Anyway it's a lot of fun so far!

Seppuku
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Jan 5 - setting up a date with Ina

Postby Seppuku » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:14 pm

So while I was away in vacations, my girlfriend Rachel blew a fuse and without warning turned silent overnight on the 25 Dec. The little explanation I managed to get from her was, quote, "this is not real love", at least not her idea of what real love should be. Yet, believe me, we fucked very often and very well, most of the time 1 hr or more, she expressed her pleasure in a most vocal way and she wanted it even more than I did. Well whatever, I no longer have the patience to play into this, so I let her go. And this is where, my friends, I was very happy to have left all my options open.

Joanne (my FR) is still pinging me religiously, and Aimee (a one time date) sending me messages from the Philippines. Then there are 7 new online matches, work in progress, plus previous contacts, some of them that I had left open simply because of lack of time to investigate further.

One of these previous contacts is Ina, the Chinese beauty that I met on WeChat (but never face to face), at the same time I was dating Carmelita, Marianne, and Rachel... the other girls happened to take precedence over Ina. She had hinted at a boyfriend, and I told her I was dating some hot girls, and I made it clear that I was on WeChat to meet and date beautiful women. At some point I told her straight "You are a beauty for sure" and then the underlying idea was that we should be dating. After that, we had some short small chat once in a while, but today, Jan 5, I decided that the time was right.

I notice she's online on WeChat and decide to set a date.

Me: Happy new year, Ina
Her: Thanks same to you
Me: Let us meet for real
Her: ?
Me: Like a drink some time this week if you're free
Her: Maybe. But I just free on the day time
Me: Now driving. Let me think. Will chat you later.
Her: Ok Bye

One hour later. I have decided to insist on an evening date first before suggesting daytime, and in general to give her a little fight.
Me: Finished driving, crazy traffic. I have my work during daytime. You don't have any evening free?
Her: Yes here always traffic. I don't have evening time
Me: Ok. Until what time can you make it in the day?
Her: Before 12 am.
Me: Difficult.
Her: Yes.
Me: Too bad. My omens said I would meet a chinese beauty in 2015. No luck for now ;-)
Her: Just started 2015. Have all year. You have time don't worry
Me: Haha ;-) I'm not a patient man.

2 mins later
Me: How about lunch time 12 to 2 pm?
Her: Haha. On sunday maybe.

30 minutes later
Me: Back home at last :-) Ok for sunday at 12, at W hotel. I propose the italian restaurant there. I meet you in the lobby of W.
Her: Ok.
(some small chat - just to appear normal after securing the date)

Now given the daytime constraint, I know I will not be able to pull anywhere. During the day, I have my kids at home. Difficult also to be absent from work in the morning. So I don't see how I can arrange a logistics plan; yet I still want to go and meet her, see how the chemistry goes. If she likes me, I'm sure she will find some ways of freeing up some evening time.
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January 9 - Setting up a date with Joy

Postby Seppuku » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:19 pm

This past 7 days I was very active on the various online dating sites, and made up 15 new contacts. Some of them turn out to be just noise; yet I have some interesting new leads, one of them being Anne. I also recontacted some former contacts that I could not investigate further the last two months. We've seen Ina in my previous post. Joy is another one.

Joy initially contacted me spontaneously on Dec 4. After very little introduction she proceeded straight to asking me about my plan on Saturday 6th, and insisted several times on meeting me. Unfortunately I had plans already (I was dating Joanne... 2nd date) and in spite I told her that I had already plans she kept insisting. Well no luck that time. So on my preceding text I had asked her about her plans on coming Saturday. Wow so much interest out of the blue, so impulsive. So I decided to reconnect and on Jan 5 sent her a new years greeting and mentioned I was available on coming Saturday.

In the morning of Jan 8 I see that Joy has answered by giving me her phone. "Well noted. I'll text you later". By 9:30 am I send her a text message. She answers right back on Whatsapp. We do some deep diving. She's a 31 years old Filipina, mother of 3 (11, 9 and 6) separated from husband since 2009 when her youngest was 1 yrs old. To test a girl's interest in going further I usually ask her for a picture... They either oblige or resist the request. It's another compliance request at the end of the day... I ask her, and she obliges with no resistance. I plant the idea of being with me "have you been with a western boyfriend before?" "well you may expect some differences I guess" so now I've planted the idea of being together. The meeting on Saturday is not confirmed, it will depend if she has night shift or not. "To be honest this is my first time to have a date because I'm afraid to go out alone" "well at this stage we don't even know if we're dating ;-) It's still suspense" "I don't think so"

Well the false suspense is resolved the next day, Jan 9. In the morning I send a little check up text "good morning" to see the vibe and it still looks good. We do not text the full day, and by 8pm I reiterate my request for a dinner on Saturday (tomorrow!). "I will tell you later". "You still don't know about your shift?" It turns out that this is still a little resistance on her part. After a couple of minutes she texts back "OK for tomorrow 8pm. Where do we go?" We agree on an Italian restaurant. We'll see that tomorrow Jan 10th then!

My dating schedule is getting busy. There is still a date planned with Ina on the 11th. And Joanne is still in regular touch. Will have to accommodate some time for her I think before she autorejects. And then there is an interesting new date prospect, Anne, but will put this separately if it ever materialize.
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January 10 - a flake

Postby Seppuku » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:18 am

Joy texted me early morning to cancel tonight's date. Official reason, she had to take evening work to prepare for a big sale week. She said she would be back with another time. I answered that sounds too much like maybe, and she answered "I let you know by coming Sunday". Well my paranoid (or experienced ?) mind tells me of another possible reading, namely she got a more interesting date coming up and put me second priority. She's now waiting to see the outcome of the date to decide on me. Who knows for sure? Well anyway I played it cool. If she does not come back as she said I will see.

In the meantime Joanne is now sick with fever and flu, so our catch up date is postponed for now.
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January 13 - quick lunch date with Ina

Postby Seppuku » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:27 pm

There were no further news of Joy after our last exchange. I am keeping it silent for now and will maybe revert to her later with a low key text.

The planned date with Ina did not happen on Sunday as agreed. She texted me to apologize for not coming but suggested to do Tuesday (13th) instead. Well this is a quite positive sign, instead of the usual lame excuse to flake. On Tuesday morning I text her "Hey Ina, see you today at 12" and she checks in, "OK".

As mentioned earlier I know I don't have a possibility of pulling out: there are my housemaid and children at home at this time - so I only go to check the vibe. At 12 I turn at the appointment and she comes with a modest 5 minutes late. She's an absolute beauty without the apparent distance and coldness of so many beautiful girls. Long hair, almond eyes, gorgeous lips, charming smile, naturally sexy. We go to the restaurant as planned. I tell her "it's confirmed, you're a Chinese beauty!". English is neither of us native language and we have some difficulty of understanding each other but by patiently repeating some parts and articulating we manage to have a gentle conversation. I attempt my touch compliance routine but the environment is daytime and business lunch style so I'm restrained in what I can do. At some point I notice that my body language is too much onto her so I hold back a bit. It goes well. Somehow the conversation ends up trapped around my ex-wife. It's woman curiosity (and probably behind some degree of jealousy) so I take it as a sign of interest but I know I need to defuse it quick, and finally get to change the topic. About her job, she again does not want to say much about it. "I already told you what I do". For the record she told me earlier that she does "massage". When I asked if she was doing it in a hotel or beauty saloon she answered "private". I had inferred that she might be some sort of high end prostitute. The fact that she keeps silent on the subject now and avoids it confirms me in my assumption. She is polite, well mannered, she seems fairly affluent. We discuss views on marriage and she shares my view that what matters is to be happy, as opposed as to be married. Apparently divorce is fairly common in China. I did not know that - I had seen mostly conservative societies in Asia, whether Japan, Philippines, South Eastern Asia. She has a British boyfriend, and I mention my (ex) girlfriend Rachel. We've known each other only by chat and exchanged pictures, it's our first meet. I ask her "So how do I look compared to my pictures?" and she answers "You're more handsome than your pics". This day I'm dressed with a business suit (I'm just out of work) and elegant shirt and matched tie, I think I'm at my best elegance business style. All the time I think I have displayed confidence, deep eye contact, charming smile. "You're as beautiful as your pictures and that's a lot" I tell her, looking straight into her eyes and smiling. She briefly looked down. Finally knowing that I have nothing to lose, I tell her "I'm available for dating". My free time is in the evening, but that's when she's working. We both go. She's the first to text me and thank me for the time.

Vibe was good. She gave me indicators of interest, remembered details of our chats, and gave me (I think) genuine compliments. She has a busy night life, I suspect she's a high end prostitute but she did not expressed direct interest for money. She has a boyfriend but she seems to have a liberal mentality. She seemed to be into me to some extent. It sounded genuine, not another woman looking for more orbiters and validation. Overall I am thinking if I could turn her into a Friend with Benefits - and looking forward to those benefits. Let's see how this evolves.

Later tonight Joanne is back to me - we've been in daily touch over my vacations. On Sunday evening she gave me some drama on Viber like "You do not seek a relationship" then about my views on marriage. OMG. So we did not even get a proper kiss yet but already a drama. These girls, do they have any sense? If they want a relationship they should give more kisses and less drama, not the other way around.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:17 pm

Wow. Ina sounds hot. You must be displaying a fair bit of value to be getting all these women hot and bothered ;) The difficulty seems to be avoiding the boyfriend frame, I find that hard also.
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby Seppuku » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:20 pm

Hey Ray, my work on fundamentals, after reading GC, has helped apparently, I've been called sexy now, much more than in my younger days. And yep, you nailed it, the boyfriend frame. It has to do with the age I guess. 45, established in life, ideal boyfriend candidate. Well better than nothing, but working to improve this.
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January 16 - caught in the bubbles

Postby Seppuku » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:52 am

Just to be precise, I always change the girls name here - they could be identified and get into serious trouble.

Joanne is blowing a fuse. She gave me a drama that I am not looking for a relationship, merely a "companion". More of the drama is my views on marriage. She feels she owes a marriage to her father and she whines that all the guys she met are divorced and have a trauma from marriage. Well nevertheless what are these women who make a fuss about relationships and marriage but refrain from giving you a proper kiss. Actually for the right girl I am pretty open to the outcome but a relationship starts with a kiss and a good fuck. Sorry to be blunt.

More bubbles are coming out of Anne, my match from last week. We've chatted a lot, and probably too much. Probably killed it. Another one adamant about marriage. Now she's getting crazy with questions on my ex wife. I don't know what's with them, they have to compare themselves with my ex or whoever has been in my life. Leave this to me, please! So, when it became too much I told her "The topic of my ex-wife is now closed". See if she reverts to me after that. I have already asked her out and she answered "I'm thinking", so it's still open. She seems to be a bit crazy and drama prone anyway, I have to be careful not to get stuck into another energy drainer.

And there is Kiara, my Tinder match. She's a flight attendant from Qatar Airways. When I initially asked her out (on Jan 4) there was no answer. Following Ray's advice (thanks !) I did not let her get the leverage on me, so as she was still silent I told her "It's ok, we can do next week if you're busy". On Jan 11th she texted me "I'm free tonight or tomorrow". I proposed a date on the 12th, the next day, and she said "OK sure". Then no news of her on the 12th. On the 16th she's back again with a "hey". I answered a short text. No news yet. Not sure about this one, she's either an attention whore (as Colt described) or really interested but shy to meet me.

Here is something about online game. As opposed to meeting a girl in the real world, in online game I find it is necessary to undergo a little bit of information exchange, some degree of deep diving, before it can be turned into a date. Yet you should not be caught into too much chatting, which eventually is not good (probably what happened with Anne), kills mystery and removes the point of a face to face meeting. There is a line to be drawn, but some girls want to suck you into the chatting world, way beyond this line. I am curious to see what Colt has to say on the subject on his new webinars.
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January 17 - Maeva and trying Colt's stuff

Postby Seppuku » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:01 pm

This morning I went through Colt's two first webinars "Getting laid on Tinder". Well here it's essentially WeChat, but it works pretty much the same. The mobile app determines the users in a 10 km radius and display their profiles. The profiles are in a facebook fashion, a profile pic then lots of public pictures or posts or links. You approach by sending a "Greeting" which is very much like a friend invite in FB except that you can join a very short text message. If the invite is accepted, you can then proceed to text message. I've had some success in September which led to great dates and my (ex) girlfriend Rachel. But since then I've had little more success on this app. Not sure what changed (I think I'm approaching the same way I did).

So I decide to apply a few of Colt's stuff immediately. First I put a picture of myself, actually on my 3rd date with Joanne, nice setting, dressed casual and cool, except that I crop Joanne out of the picture... almost entirely, as advised by Colt, so there's a very little bit of her left, her arm and a bit of long hair. It communicates pre-selection (great idea!). Second, I use the "song lyric" unconventional opener prescribed. I'm not too much aware of recent songs... So I turn to classics... And I decide to use Elvis Presley's "Love me tender" lyrics as an opener. So in my opening text, I write "love me tender love me true" and that's it. According to Colt, that works, go figure... It has at least the merit to be distinctively away from the usual "Hi" which is 99% of all openers. Up to now I admit that I did not pay attention to my opener text because I believed all is in the profile pic. And guess what, that worked. Got three responses (friend invites accepted) all within 10 minutes after I approached.

One of them is from Maeva, a 25 yrs old filipina, and in a couple of minutes it will turn into a same day date before I even have time to ask.

Me: Hi! So you're xxx? [she used a nickname in WeChat]
Her: I'm Maeva
Me: I'm Seppuku nice to meet you.
Her: You're in Doha?
Me: Yes. How old are you Maeva?
Her: 25, and you?
Me: 45. You look adorable :-) I thought this elvis song suited you well
Her: Haha. Where do you live in Doha?
Me: In West Bay, very close to the City Center mall
Her: I work in the City Center Mall
Me: That's why I see you at 300m [WeChat show the distance to other users]
Her: You're from?
Me: France. And you?
Her: Philippines. By 5:45pm my job finishes
Me: Ok. We drink a juice.
Her: Where can we meet? Just for friends :-)
[Some logistics. We agree on a venue]
Me: Can you send me a picture? [I always ask. It's my compliance request]
[She sends a nice one]
Me: Thank you [\Love icon] Beautiful
Her: You can send me too
[I send]
Me: I also have the same picture, without the shirt, but I'm not sending you yet lol ;-)

The date

I arrive in time. She's delayed with her boss, but she keeps texting that she'll come for a short while, so I can guess she must be very nervous. There is a little confusion about the place but we manage to meet. She's beautiful. We go to a cafe and I start the game which consists first of all to make her feel comfortable. Eye contact, confident smile, then deep dive and let her talk. A compliment "You're more beautiful than your pciture!". I start to build my touch compliance routine, first touching her arm and shoulders, then hands. Then I silently request her hand in mine, which she does for brief period of time. She explains that, like many asians, she does not do much public display of affection. I explain that well, in Qatar, anyway you should not because it can cause you serious trouble if police catch you. "That's why I think we should be better having a drink at the Kempinski lounge". The idea is now in the air. I clear with her that she has more time in front of her then we change venues and head to the Kempinski hotel, a 5 minutes walk. On the way there, I tell her "Very important, put your arm along your body" She does, I do the same. "Arms length not matching. If we hold hands I will have to bend or you wear heels" she laughs and start explaining about her high heels. After a while we're walking in an empty street and I hold her hand. We reach the Kempinski Lounge and get a table. I sit next to her, and hold her hand all the time from then on. It's dim light, very little people, quiet atmosphere. We have a cider beer. More deep diving. She's now very comfortable with my touch. I touch her arm, her back, her hair. We speak about an hour. She has to go for an evening part time job, and I have my children waiting for me at home. I make sure we have some plans in line for later in the week. Wrapping up, I reiterate my compliment. She says "You're very handsome!" "Thank you, it goes straight to my heart!" Well I'm 45 years old and I get a genuine compliment from a beautiful woman twenty years younger, I never had anything like that when I was tenty five. We go out hand in hand and get into a cab. "You have the right to kiss me here" I tell her, pointing to my right cheek, and she does. Very cute. She's not yet comfortable for the real kiss. A traditional asian woman who has never dated a westerner. After I leave, she immediately sends me a stream of very excited texts: "See you soon [...] I like your company [...] I like the way you are [...] But I will let you know you're handsome [...] nice meeting you [...] let me know your plan"

As we know with women nothing is ever granted but this starts pretty good. Next date planned on Tuesday. Logistics sounds good, she lives not too far, her workplace is a 5 minutes walk from my home, she lives with her brother so no real curfew or similar shit, she's doing regular hours, no crazy night shifts. If things go well I'm considering to make her my new girlfriend.
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January 20 - Second date with Maeva

Postby Seppuku » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:17 pm

In the last few days I felt like shit. Although the first date seemed very promising and exciting, I could feel in the scarce text interaction I had with Mae that something had changed. To start with, immediately after I left her she texted me excitedly then in the very same evening turned silent. The next days my attempt to engage her was very unresponsive, just one sporadic text. So I decided to go silent as well and see. After my being silent, Maeva finally reverted to me this morning.

... [some greetings]
Me: I look forward to see you at 5:45 pm same place.
Her: It's fine but maybe we can do next time? We have family dinner out. Just notice yesterday night
Me: Can we do today as planned please?
Her: I will try
Me: No you tell me
Her: Which place we'll go?
Me: At 4 seasons hotel. This time we can try the beach bar. Make sure you have a jacket.
Her: I will try OK? I will ask my bro
Me: We make it short so that you can be back early. We can do 6 to 8
Her: Ok
Me: I'll be at City Center Mall at 5:45 same place
Her: See you at commercial bank outside of CC
Me: OK, I will be there

This is not what we had said. We were supposed to go out and I was to tell her the plan... So now there is a family dinner and I had to insist my way in.

I go at said time, and the second date turns out to be a fuck-up. To start with, her supervisor has not arrived meaning that she cannot leave her shop. While I wait she suggests that we do another time, and she lets me know she will join her family for dinner at 7:30. I tell her that no, I have come all the way to meet her and want to meet her. She sends me a picture of her in the meantime. I end up waiting one hour - breaking my 15 minutes no show rule. Finally I take her to the Mariott bar just next to the mall. Most of the excitement of last time is gone. I lock my eyes into hers and smile, holding her hand. I get her to kiss me gently on the cheek. I try to get a replacement date, she tells me all her week is full and taken. So I try the hard push method and insist. She says she will let me know. I say no, I want to know now. She says again that she will let me know. I say I don't like this, I want to know now, and insist again and again. "Why? You like me?" "Of course I do". She finally says Monday, but it does not sound too convinced. I take the counter approach. "Look, you are free to go anytime. I'm not forcing anyone to do things they don't want. I like to speak to people who want to speak to me too." etc... Anyway don't believe this Monday.

In the course of discussion I have this question popping up "So you are muslim?". Although I am French by my nationality, culture, first language, childhood, education, I happen to have an arabic name, which equates to muslim for many people. I actually happen to be christian. This question is of huge importance for Filipinas... But this one I had cleared it last time, I had already told her. But the matters comes again. My guess is she had spoken about me to someone else who told her that I must be a muslim with my name. Now, that would explain the turn in the relation. Incredible. I asked her "did I tell you truth about my marital status? My children? So why would I lie about my religion?" Looks like it starts to make some sense in her brain. Nevertheless we finally settle the bill and leave.

On our way to the taxi she tells me that she had understood that we would meet on the night before. Hence the already panned family dinner tonight and her aloof behavior the day before when I texted her. I ask her if she was upset that I did not invite her 24h earlier."No. I don't get angry. But sometimes I cry" On these loads of misunderstanding, I leave her. I tried the hard push, but I don't want to be the chaser now. Need to see if she reverts to me at all or if it's totally gone. Right after I left the taxi she sends me a text "Thanks". This one does not count. There has been no further exchange since then.

It is likely a fuck up, although many elements were out of my control. The mistake about the date was apparently genuine so she must have spent some time wondering why I was silent. Then the fact that this religion subject surfaced again, although we had cleared it on date 1, tells me that she must have discussed this with someone.
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January 23 - year to date statistics

Postby Seppuku » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:53 am

It's been three weeks into this new year and I can already draw some statistics on my online game. I have had 29 new contacts / matches this year, breaking down as follows:

    * Interacted with but quickly gone cold: 4
    * Meaningful interactions other than above: 9
    * Mamas hitting on me, or otherwise unattractive: 4
    * Unresponsive: 2 [these girls matched but never responded to my opening message]
    * Window shoppers and time wasters: 4
    * Unexploited matches (still prospective): 4
    * "Love me from afar" matches: 2 [girls from Africa hitting guys in Qatar]
Results

    *Dates: 3
    *Flaked dates: 2
    *Planned dates: 2
    *Date being discussed now: 1

Some of them are not actually interested in going anywhere than having a chatmate. These one suck your time for nothing; it is important to spot them early. Some of them would be interested but are over guarded, they test you over and over until you finally say something which does not fit into their super tight ideal picture dream guy. They're usually the 33+ yrs with a sense of a deadline and expiry date. Then there are the desperate mamas, 40+. No one hit on them so they have to do the approach etc... They end up orbiting me lol. Pour souls, really, it is not easy growing old as a woman, long past the days in their twenties when they thought they were on top of the food chain. The initially excited then grow cold segment deserves special attention.

Prospective thoughts

I've implemented a few changes in my profile and approach, from Colt Williams webinar, and that seems to improve my match rate, from probably one in fifteen, to about one in five. That's my estimate so far but it's been only a week. I am also implementing changes in my communication. Some pitfalls I avoid: my ex wife seems to drive some crazy; my children here (I'm a single dad) this I try to skip until I met her in person; my first name which fosters suspicion that I might be a muslim pretending to be christian. The latter one is surprising if coming from the west, as it was to me (honestly I never cared about that before) but for some women here (like Filipinas) it is a very big question. No need to shoot myself in the foot again, I now introduce myself as Pierre now, which is my second name btw.

Upcoming dates

I have finally agreed to a date with my orbiter Laurie, a 44 yrs woman who approached me two weeks ago and since then been texting me twice a day. She seems well preserved from the picture, let us see in real life.
Tomorrow I have a date planned with Lianna, a 30 yrs old cutie.
This morning I've been in touch with a 26yrs old and we have discussed about a date although no firm agreement yet.
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January 24 and 25 - three dates back to back

Postby Seppuku » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:08 pm

24 Jan. During the day, in the afternoon I get to arrange a same day date with Renee my latest match on WeChat and we agree to meet around 9pm.

At 7:30pm I finally get to meet my orbiter Laurie... And it is a non event. I understand why her pictures are taken from afar, lol, she looks much older in reality than in the pics. On top of that she's too shy to even look into my eyes. We have a quick drink, I give her a friendly vibe but I can't wait it's finished. While we are drinking I message Renee "what is your phone number?" and she answers. Although we had plans to stay one hour with Laurie, after 30 minutes by common agreement I drive her back then drive to pick up Renee.

She leaves a 100m away from Joanne's place lol. She's tall, quite sexy and feminine plain shapes, long hair and glasses, her face is otherwise pretty ordinary. Overall pretty sexy with her heels and fitting pants. However her vibe is cool from the start. We start deep diving into each others story as I drive towards the Strata. I park in my parking lot then as we walk to the Strata I take her hand, and she holds it without objection. We spend some relaxed time, the waitress comes and I joke "we have one Sex on the Beach and one Guilty Pleasure please". I want to try bringing sexual topics. When the drinks come I ask again the waitress "Sex on the what? Did you say?" Renee answers "On the beach" and I tell her "reminds me that I have never tried that" "I would not advise you to try it" "Why not?" "I mean here in Qatar" "OK sure, but how about in the Philippines, you have so many beaches" etc... I still hold her hand. She regularly breaks contact but I keep taking her hand again. At some point it is me breaking contact and she then touches my forearm and leg. We are still deep diving into each others lives, bf gf, etc... At some point I caress her hair and bring in a compliment. Her vibe is still very cool.

After we leave in the elevator I hold her around the waist but her response is very neutral. As we get near my car I want to give a try. I don't feel it as her response to me was mild, but I want the data point on my experience to build in the confidence. I start talking about my apartment, how I moved into a smaller flat after my family left, but still large enough. "Would you like to come and see my flat for 5 minutes?" "OK" I still lead her by her hand and start talking stuff to divert her logical mind. We reach my flat. I show her my large kitchen with window bays and living room. As we stand in the living room, I take her in my arm and approach my face to hers. She faces her head away and say "We should go". This is going uphill so I see no point to insist here, and we leave for the car. Before I drop her at her home, I lean towards her and ask for the kiss again, but she just gives me her cheek. "Don't do in public places" well it's dark and no one in the street, but what the fuck, so be it, and I leave.

She texts me while I drive back, some thanks for the nice evening bla bla. OK first she probably has a colder personality than the other women I dated which were all very warm, and I did not initially know how to best handle this. She has a very strong and willful personality as well, so I should have started with her much more dominant... She is the same height as me which makes it harder. This is probably going uphill. In order to continue I want to see if there is some genuine will of hers to continue the interaction.

When I reach home I text Lucy (I called her Lianna in my previous post - whatever, I make up all names here) just to test waters about the date tomorrow and she responds. Her last text is "Good night Pierre see you later" so I infer I am still in.


25 Jan. Date with Lucy. During the day I poll her and it appears she has slept only two hours and she is sick with cold chills, headache, sore throat and blocked nose. Yet she is still in. As for myself I have slept 4h30 and not at my best self. We keep the date as agreed. For today I think it's best not to overdo it, just go, meet and see if we like each others.

By 8pm as I'm about to go she texts me to pick her up in a different place - it's closer and fine with me. She's out with two girlfriends and when we meet she asks me to drop her friends another place first. Fine with me. I want to play it cool and besides, the Philippines girls here are afraid to take taxi on their own. I decide to play it to my advantage, with social confidence and charisma. As we drive to the drop point I engage the group, tease them and get them to laugh. They're giggling and become excited and playful. They joke that Lucy is very happy today lol. I finally drop the two girlfriends. After they left I'm with Lucy and drive to the Strata bar my favorite date place. She's a sexy little kitten, thin, long brown hair, fitting blue jeans, very elegant and very pretty. The current seems to be flowing well between us from the first.

After the excited charismatic pitch with the three girls, I tone down a bit the vibe to make it cooler and sexier. I park in my parking lot (my building's parking) then as we leave the car I take her hand without asking and we walk all the way to the Strata nearby. She follows my lead very well. We have both a non alcoholic cocktail and deep dive gently into our stories. We're hands in hands all the time and I can tell she likes my touch as she is gently caressing my hand. As she looks away, I try "Look at me!" and she complies. She's sick though and she's here with me instead of being in bed. I decide to make it reasonable for now and drive her back. She hints at further meetings. In the car as I drive my right hand is on her leg and she puts her hands on mine.

Overall it went all smoothly, relaxed, no uncomfortable silence. She seems to be fairly into me. In the next days I will tone down the dating and online game and focus on my interaction with her.
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January 27 - interesting interaction with Renee

Postby Seppuku » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:55 pm

Renee is the 26 yrs old Filipina I went out on a date last saturday night. As I reported in my previous post, I had already decided that she's tough headed, non compliant, and that to get anywhere with her would require a longer fight than I am prepared to give. I have had my share of this type of fighter girls in my youth and believe me, if you ever get into a relationship with a woman like this you need to have steel nerves and tough skin. So after our date I kept silent... until the 27th in the morning when she reverted to me first. It is 9:30 am and I am in my office when I receive her text. I report this interaction below because it's an interesting data point in my opinion. As said elsewhere, I change all names here, including mine.

[... some greetings ...]
Her: Send me a voice note here
Me: Sure, but why?
Her: I wanna hear your voice
Me: OK give me time, there's my colleague in my office now lol
Her: Willing to wait

That's a compliance request, but that's alright because she wants to hear my voice. I send her a 3 secs recording of me saying good morning. But soon it turns into compliance escalation. I give a fight.

Her: That's a very short one. I want a 5 mins one
Me: That's a phone call
Her: OK. 2 mins
Me: You know you will quit listening before the 2 minutes. Send me a good morning
Her: I'm waiting.
Me: I sent you a good morning. You did not. You're not being polite! Only takes 3 secs
[... more ...]
Me: would appreciate you return the greeting. I'm not as greedy as you, a good morning will suffice.
Her: Then you'll send me a 3 mins voice note?
Me: Then I will send you something, yes.

She sends a good morning voice note

Me: OK I'll send you something but for now I have to attend a meeting.

One hour later I send her a 20 secs voice in which I say a short french poem. She does not understand french anyway, all she wants is my voice. The text interaction now slows down, some sporadic texting, until later in the afternoon. She ask if I'm going to bring the kids to see Paddington the movie.

Her: Or daddy is tired? [there was a bit of mockery here in my opinion]
Me: No that's ok. A bit tight schedule though
[...]
Her: What makes your schedule tight [she sounds curious about my schedule]
Me: Out of office at 5, then movie 5:30. Manageable of course but tight. Then 7:30pm go back home then cook, then eat then send kids to shower, then to bed etc...
Her: Daddy must be tired [again... she sounds now challenging me]
Me: Well perhaps not enough. We could try some experiments on human resistance [...] We can add a date on top of this, lol [I had no plan of going this route with her... but she challenged me and I'm up to it]
Her: You can try. [The hell with this woman, I don't care]
Me: OK. Are you available after 9:30 pm tonight? We do some drinks
Her: Not tonight though. Some other time?
Me: Science will have to wait then. I was initially thinking of asking you for tomorrow night [not true. I had no such plans]
Her: Haha. Tom will be a better idea. But let me confirm before 5 pm tomorrow [Wow. Can't believe. Will not let her go this route]
Me: You want me to wait 24hrs for the answer to a simple question... You have other plans?
Her: Friend is arriving tom. OK. Then don't wait. Not tom. Let's arrange next week then.
Me: How about tonight then?
Her: I'm tired :-)
Me: Haha, so it's you tired lol. Same, experiment on human resistance, but you're the subject! See at which point you fall asleep. Let's meet tonight, I pick you at 9:30 then we go to the crowne plaza.
Her: Can I confirm by 8:30pm?
Me: [Tired of this, after all I don't care] OK deal

Two hours later
Her: Hi Pierre, I can't make it today. I'm good to go out. Sorry.
Me: Alright, Renee, we do another time then.

She initially said she was busy this evening, but then she would have sent the tomorrow date into limbo, trying to double date me, so instead of pushing this away to next week [= never] as she suggested I decided to try for tonight anyway. She was probably expecting the confirmation for a date tonight and accepted me as a contigency plan. I have no plan to contact her again, but would be curious to see if she comes back to me... again!
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January 30 - brief interaction at cashier

Postby Seppuku » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:41 am

Online game has absorbed me in the last 4 months, with some degree of success. I have come to the point where I think I can pull dates consistently and plan to post more on where I stand today with online game.

However the momentum I started building on daygame before (however small) was interrupted. One benefit from the online game is that I start building some abundance mentality. I can easily move on to the next girl because I have a process to get dates. Therefore I don't care so much about fucking it up. And this, must benefit the daygame too, and help me overcome approach anxiety. I have to test this. Furthermore, daygame is also a broad avenue I cannot afford to miss.

Need to re-build the momentum again. This interaction happened spontaneously yesterday at the cash counter in Carrefour the local hypermarket store. It was early morning, the lady at cash counter was still fresh and relaxed and there weren't loads of guys waiting in the queue behind me. This is what makes hitting on cashiers difficult usually, high stress, pressure, plenty of people.So, easy today, and here she is with her long breaded hair and very sexy smile. I pull my own sexy smile. She initiates.

Her: [smiling] Is it your daughter birthday? [I bought candles]
Me: My son. He turns 12 year old. Do you remember me? Or too many customers?
Her: No sir, because I'm just back from vacations...
Me: I do remember you, I saw you before, your sexy smile... But I don't remember your name... Show me your name card?
Her: [she complies] Ann. What's your name?
Me: I'm Pierre

[In the mean time the debit card machine turns off as it was expecting my code and I did not enter it in time. She has to re enter the amount]

Me: See? I was distracted, your name, your sexy smile... My son turns 12 years old, and I also have a daughter age 7. I'm a single dad!
Her: Nice to meet you [She looks at me] Now I will remember you [she bows]

I leave her and then think that I should have asked for her number! One of my sticking point in daygame is that I have to go over the "test her reaction" only and really pull a process. The good point is I now have a better picture of the latter phases in the process (dating).
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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:58 am

The problem you're having with the cashier is something I have struggled with in all my interactions today (and generally -- not pulling the trigger after establishing rapport is a sticking point for me). But I can tell you you need more rapport with her than what you described, before pulling the trigger. Start by comlimenting her and asking her name, preferably before starting your transaction. Based on name and appearance cold read her on her ethnicity... try to display some knowledge of, or interest in, her country (even just knowing the name of the capital city helps... for instance there's a lot of Taiwanese girls here and I usually ask them if they are from Taipei and if not, whether they speak Hokkien at home)... then ask how she came to be in Qatar (usually its student or working holiday in the case of women around here)... see if she opens up a bit, then hit her up for a date at a high point, if you don't ask these basic questions she will probably flake as she'd feel you only asked her out on looks alone & must be pretty shallow I feel.
-Ray
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January 31 - End of week review and thoughts

Postby Seppuku » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:41 am

This week I tried another opener from Colt Williams's online dating program. "Just distracted by your cuteness" and variations around that seem to generate a good response rate. As said last week I also changed my pictures along his suggestions. Altogether it seems that I have improved my response rate from 1 in 15, to about 1 in 5. This is the number of answers I get to online cold approaches, which results in further interaction happening.

10 new contacts this week, breakdown:
* 4 I'm not finally interested (too old, or too basic expression level)
* 2 time wasters, including one "love me from afar"
* 2 gone cold
* 2 Actual new prospects (work in progress)

Learnings so far
* A match should be turned into a date quickly or slip into a chat trap
* Therefore do not try to get new matches if you do not have available time within at most 48 hrs
* The question arises when you get contacted but do not have free time soon. Several contacts lost to this. "Text you later" is fairly risky.
* On WeChat about 20pct response rate, i.e. 1 in 5
* Match to date rate: about 1 in 10
* Date to bed rate: still unknown but maybe one girl I date in five ends up in bed?
* So maybe about 250 approaches for one bedding

Actions taken
* Avoid chat trap
* Push for a date soon
* Avoid issues around my name
* Don't communicate certain things before face to face
* Shit happens, change in hearts, external factors etc... so reduce time spent in initial dating

The Match-to-Date and Date-to-Bed rates can be both improved, however there is an extra dimension as compared to daygame. In online game you often discovers surprises along the way:
* She could be older
* She could be less cute or fatter
* She could be dumb (yes! I had these)
* "Love me from afar" time wasters, contacting you from other countries, either want a platonic daydream chat, or want you to help her get a visa ;-)

these make the online game less efficient in percentage terms. You don't have these in daygame because you see who you are dealing with from instant 0. In online game you see the person face to face for the first time, on the first date.

My dating capacity: 2 per week realistically. One of them could be a recurring date (2nd date from the previous week), so it's really one new date per week. With current efficiency, that's about 50 approaches. As said above, generating the matches too early is counterproductive because they will soon expire. So the idea is to do about 25 approaches a day within two days of the planned day.

One sticking point: the strong "Anti-Sex" frame
I have seen that many times already. Very early, usually on Date 1, the girl pushes a very strong "anti-sex" frame. She mentions about some past experience about guys who've been trying to bring them to bed or FWB them, with a negative tone, and then she carries on by mentioning all the options she could have if she was interested "only in sex". You get this in your face in date 1 like a wall. So far I had been a bit surprised and dealt with it as I could. Juvy, Imee, Mae did it, and it has held me back. Key to my success I think is to handle that without bowing into it. The approach I am planning now is to go around it, without facing it upfront, by throwing vague answers, but proceeding nevertheless. In other words don't engage her logical mind on it and otherwise ignore and proceed.
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Quick note

Postby Seppuku » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:04 am

In my previous post I reported my first estimate on statistics, based on 4 months of experience in on-line matching apps.

Would love to hear from you guys what are your statistics, based on whatever flavor of the game you are practicing!

Just don't hesitate to drop a note on this, or whatever comment you want to make!
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