A ray of light in the darkness



A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:37 am

I have recently discovered journals, and in order not to bore the community with my baby steps I will try to post FRs in here unless they are particularly noteworthy, I have gotten better at troubleshooting my own interactions but any & all feedback appreciated ;)

This is a kids weekend so I had no outlet for my approach addiction, Ihave once or twice done an approach while out with my kids but only if they are well and truly occupied with an activity (park, wild bird show in one case, etc).

So I decided to get a bit of tinder action in, while doing housework and getting kids dressed and all those things I have to do... I have been having one really long go-nowhere interaction with a cute 39-year old, probably over-invested there, also a lot of really short boring interactions (what do you do, etc) where the girl has lost interest pretty quickly... I did have one possibility I'll call Fan... a nice 34yo Asian chick with a quirky profile... decided to get out some game. The convo IIRC was like this:

Ray: hiya, looks like we both have good taste ;) [thanks RDawg! stole this! nice low pressure non-needy opener!]
Fan: hi how r u Ray?
Fan: we sure do have good taste ;)
Ray: i'm fine thanks, bit of a slow day, just had pancakes then went back to bed
Fan: I want to sleep in, but somehow I cannot. you made pancakes? yummmm
Ray: yeah, I have exactly the same problem, that's why I was up so early [it was about 9.30am at this stage] what other foods do you like, sexy foods? oysters, chocolate...??
Fan: so what do u do mr?
Fan: the other picture in your profile is kind of arty, what's the story?
Ray: haha long story, how much time do u have? i'll tell you over a coffee... I find your profile intriguing too, let's do it :)
Fan: tempting... :-)
i'm not looking for hookup or one night stand.
friendship maybe.

what kind of work do you do?
Ray: temptress! [a chase frame] I have a very good job ;) you first
Fan: Accountant
Ray: I studied accounting for 2 years...very interesting. how are you on economics, finance, management?
Fan: I did undergraduate in bankong finance [note spelling error]... never worked in that area though
Ray: it's great to hear you've studied bonking, how about we recruit you to my company in that case? ;) [hoping to setup a role play as I'd just reread Chase's roleplay article last night]


If she responded positively I would have said: "this role will require attention to your appearance, a passionate attitude, and the occasional all-nighter, any of these going to be a problem? ;)" negatively I would have said "oops, anyone can make a typo ;)" thought I had all the bases covered, well in the afternoon she unmatched me! Gutted!!! hahahaha

In the afternoon I was out with my kids and re-approached cute coffee shop chick, greeted her by name but I do not think she remembered our conversation, it was 1-2 weeks ago, so that didn't go off as I hoped, but I had her recommend something to eat anyway, this is usually a good strategy for getting a bit of investment and more opportunity to talk with a hired gun. Anyway, NEXT! should have number closed in the first instance but I was not focused enough, was just passing time I guess. I should note I banned myself from approaching hired guns until I dealt with my approach anxiety, but this is in pretty good shape so I can probably go back to number closing waitresses, shop assistants and the like, this can be very easy at times.
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NEXTable offence

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:02 am

I have been having a relationship of sorts with a married woman whom I'll call Sam... I have written about her previously. Anyway she turns out to be pretty troublesome, just the process of getting into her pants involved a fair bit of drama and this was followed by a kind of a honeymoon period of a few weeks where she helped me with some projects and I fucked her a lot, what happened then was that contact tailed off a bit, I think her husband was a bit unhappy about her spending large amounts of time around at my place, even though he didn't know what was going on AFAIK.

From there on she several times wanted to come over for sex but only gave me same-day notice, and they were times when I had other dates lined up through cold approach or whatnot. So I politely told her to give me more notice next time (I didn't tell her I was seeing other women, just that I wasn't going to be home). We also a few times met up with our kids present, I was okay with giving her a kiss discreetly or whatever, but she was keen to do more, and although I have never been comfortable with this I wasn't strong enough in setting my frame to eliminate this behaviour. At one stage her daughter walked in just after we'd come apart and this was a bit of a wakeup call. Fuck!

So I also had to lay down some ground rules about security, no sexting (not sending me pornographic pictures from the Internet, not sending me pictures of herself naked and not sending me text referring to us having sex or whatever) and nothing going on while kids present. I thought she understood about this but she then sent me a wall of text about how I'm not giving her what she needs, she feels I see her as only a fuck, and she's going to cut off contact et cetera blah blah. This was directly against the first ground rule because I don't want anything about our relationship in writing.

Because of this I ignored her for 3 or 4 days, the text coming from her was truly pathetic, a few days after she cut off contact she wanted to come around for one last fuck, I felt she had been punished enough (but failed to notice she was once again violating the ground rules) and politely replied I wasn't going to be home and would require more notice in future. Then she repeated this bullshit thing she does which is getting a new piercing when she feels rejected and then sending me pictures of it (I once told her I found nipple piercings erotic although I don't particularly like other piercings and she has perhaps not got this).

Fucking hell, this is really difficult, so after ignoring her another 3 or 4 days I decided again she'd been punished enough and sent her a "how's life" text, we exchanged a bit of news and this was good. I did this partly because I'll be seeing her on Wednesday (unless I decide to break the regular playdate which I don't want to do) and I'd prefer things not be awkward. After this she sent me another pornographic picture from the Internet and I'm fucking pissed off. I reckon this is hard NEXTable, I really cannot continue dealing with this, I do not want pornographic pictures, sexts and other crap sent to me all the time.

On a different tack I'm trying to reboot my life a bit because I've been experiencing approach addiction and it has been wrecking my routine. I have taken initial steps by resuming my diet and making it 100% strict so I cannot eat any other food than my diet food, because there were too many exceptions sneaking in before, resulting in my not losing any weight the last 2~3 months.

So I was walking from the office to the supermarket to get salad and tofu etc, when I noticed a girl walking beside me, clearly an approach invitation. I was experiencing approach anxiety so instead of opening her I checked her out and immediately regretted it, she was not bad but I couldn't open after an eye contact error, she got a bit creeped out and sped up and crossed the street. Oops. I felt a bit low.

Then went into the supermarket and after a while noticed someone awesome, tall in black stockings and a black and white miniskirt, but I was a bit shy to approach. I turned in front of her to go into an aisle, figuring if she walked into the same aisle as well, it would be an approach invitation, but she didn't. I was at the checkout when I noticed her leave without buying anything, so as soon as I finished I went after her, determined to get some balls and open her come what may, but she apparently wasn't going my way and I didn't see her anymore. Fuck!

This was a pretty shitty outing but the problem is that I am not scheduling my game, I am experiencing exactly the scenario outlined here:
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7372
I feel terrible if I see a good looking woman and do not approach her, unfortunately this is all too common, especially as I am still a little anxious about doing approaches when I am not warmed up.

With this constant turmoil going, on my work is slipping a bit, and I have also been spending too much time on Tinder and other online crap, so I have totally deleted Tinder and Facebook, that felt good.

I now need to schedule my approaches and my time on girlschase forums, not to mention the homework for all my other self improvement classes and so on, so I can get a bit more control over things. I also want to get more early nights and give club game a miss for a time, instead focusing on day game, insta-dates, and insta-date lays.

A positive: I also deleted my tumblr profile and noted in the process that I haven't looked at porn since mid June. I think that's around the time I discovered GC, it took me about a month to do some initial work on fundamentals and get serious about approaching, then that's around the time I joined the forums here. Great, gone from porn addiction to getting physical with girls in just 4 months, nice Ray, nice :)
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby Howell » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:59 pm

Love reading your journal, man! I'd say scheduling is a hugely useful thing to get into. Your drive to practice restraint and lead a more efficient healthy lifestyle has encouraged me to get my schedule back into shape -- as I too have been spending too much time lately on Tinder and OkCupid, and have been lazy about work and writing stuff. Now I'll only talk over those in bulk at specific times during the day, the same way I treat my email, and will follow a more reasonable work schedule. I get too ambitious sometimes and over-plan, which is discouraging instead of encouraging.

Keep it up; and I'll see you around the forum!

-Howell
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:02 am

Thanks Howell :) You can hold me accountable :) :) I will check out your journal (or struggle) too :)

Now a huge facepalm, if only I could have the last hour back and do things differently.

My regular JP teacher is away and I had substitute teacher who I will call May. She is very pretty, her hair is long since last time I saw her and she's super friendly and nice and funny. I debated before the class whether to do my usual routine of demanding she not use polite speech and using the rough masculine pronoun for myself and decided against it (chickened out rather). During the class saw a few opportunities to turn things sexual and did not take them, chickened out again. Still towards the end of the class the convo was flowing, we were supposed to be asking each other questions from a script but kept adding extra deep diving questions and getting to know each other. At this point I should have changed direction and started a seduction.

Anyway at the end she kept saying "see you again in 2 years!", a joke cos it had been a while since we last did a makeup class together, realized as we left the room I had missed the hugest escalation window, she was making it easy for me to ask her out and probably thinks I am a total lame ass now. Although she did comment on my fashion style being greatly improved, I wish I had taken the opportunity to compliment her on her new hairstyle...

Fuckety fuck, why so timid, maybe I am having a bad week although I am trying not to curse myself because being fair 1.5hrs ago I had no idea how it would go, seems so obvious now that I should have treated it as a seduction but I guess it wasn't then. I was a bit slow on the uptake, need to get more of a BMOC "I'm going to take everything sexual and if you have a problem with that, I couldn't give a fuck" style going at all times...
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:19 am

Banged out another 15~20 approaches in the city around dusk. I just had to get a fix to improve my mood after earlier facepalm. Feeling great now. One flakey number close, one very solid number close -- she called her phone from mine to make sure she had the number, we discussed Thursday, she said she has some interviews so will text me with a definite time. Only slight problem, she was getting off escalator when I came around the corner talking to another girl later. I don't know if this will act as social proof or make me look like a sleaze. But interestingly the solid number close (I'll call her June) actually made contact with me first when she bumped into my foot from behind and apologized. So she may not realize I'm doing approaches. I was also approached by a hot Jehovah's witness girl doing missionary work from USA, bantered a bit with her amd let her colleague ramble on at me for ages, their approach was not really on point so I explained that I also do approaches and why, and tried to share some GC tips with them, think it fell on deaf ears. hahaha. TBC
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:57 am

Bang! Another solid number close... last post I was in Starbucks, did another few approaches there, another 5 or so on the way to the car, stopped at a bar halfway home where I haven't actually had good results to date (very small and intimate, often nobody there, or groups of locals who all know each other) but this time it went great. Fay turned to me as I came in and sat at the bar beside her, so I met her eye contact after (of course) and greeted her "Hi there", bided my time as she was in a group of 3 but eventually opened her properly, went super well, engaged in some light banter to start (her scarf, she could get a bushranger look going if she moved it down from its original position of tying up her hair, etc).

On this occasion I wanted to mix it up a bit so I decided not to go for the usual questions of what does she do, etc (can be a bit of a downer when you are just trying to relax, and it's a different scene from city where basically everyone is a student, at least the foreign girls that I usually open). She gave me a great lead by telling me she knows the barman through the community garden where she has a plot, wonderful cos I love gardening and not only that, now that I'm househunting in the city to improve my logistics I'm gonna need a plot as well, also we both have a similar attitude to gardening since we aren't that knowledgeable but just love putting plants in the ground and sometimes learn something from it.

Got some real solid chase frames in, as we got to discussing festivals and how she had met one of her ex's there, so I expanded on a previous cold read of saying she was very good at drawing people out of themselves and that she had a lovelysmile and she would have had this guy under her thumb in seconds, haha, this also led to a discussion where I qualified her on being willing to grab life with both hands and take chances on people and we discussed this for quite a while. Lovely.

After last drinks I asked her out with a yes ladder, "have you been enjoying the conversation?" "yes" "and you would like to see me again?" "yes" "then how about we exchange numbers and go on a date" "ok!" This occurred in the presence of her sister who was waiting for us to say goodbye to each other, but I wasn't too concerned since she is a local girl (finally!!) and Aussies are pretty uninhibited about this kind of stuff. No cockblock there at least not as yet.

Fay put her number in my phone and then rang her phone and then got her phone out to make sure the call came through. Lovely. I will send her an icebreaker as soon as I'm home. Just reminded me to send June one too.

Edit: Couple of things I forgot to mention. Firstly got a sexual frame in after asking her out, she was talking about another open mic night soon (we had discussed open mic and karaoke, apparently she can sing if not well) and I said I saw more possibility in a karaoke private room, with a cheeky grin and both she and the sister laughed at this. Secondly my pipeline was totally fucking empty, Veronique has flaked after okay first date but with little sexual tension. More concerningly Lottie (Vietnamese chick whom Franco has helped me with) flaked too after 4 dates and all this stuff about how comfortable she is with me etc! Fuck! I could probably persist a bit, but I don't like how the last date went and I think it's time to NEXT her even if she does have a good explanation for not responding in 36 hours. Anyway so it's great to have something solid to work with again.
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A useful(ish) outing

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:37 am

So today decided to do a few hours daygame in between dropping kid #3 at kinder and picking up kid #2 (normally I would go home for a sleep since I usually have only 4-5hrs due to the incompatibility between my usual routine and my kids routine).

I went to the shopping centre opposite my home, it's pretty big and ideal for daygame, but I haven't had good results there yet (just one insta-date IIRC and a few number closes that flaked). Time to give it another shot.

Cutting a long story short I did about 15 or so approaches, results not quite what I was hoping for. I warmed up by just talking to random people (a mum with a trolley full of party food -- is she having a party, what's the occasion etc... and a woman wearing hearing aids like mine which led to an interesting conversation)... then I started to hit up attractive women. However the only conversation of any note was with cute phone shop lady who I know through a mutual friend and who I've been deep diving a bit on and off (but she doesn't count, as a hired gun and Asian student)... What went wrong?

1) Approaching some girls I found intimidating (blonde, 8s and 9s, my own race, etc). A bit of neediness crept in, e.g. instead of trying to move them to a coffee shop, trying to accompany them somewhere.

2) MIxing up the approach. I tried a fair bit of the "hey, stop for a minute" opener which was mostly OK but I didn't proceed smoothly from there. I also used only genuine tailored compliments (not just "cute") and I think some of these might have sounded a bit random, the good thing about the "cute" opener is it clearly establishes you like their body.

3) Lack of approach anxiety, due to good warmup procedure. This has several effects (1) I get lazy and overconfident and start to cut corners, like not grounding my opener and not explaining that I just had to come and get acquainted (2) my facial expressions, too happy, I would have looked like a kid in a candy store, it's hard to get out a slow sexual smile when you are already grinning from ear to ear, I will have to tone it down a bit (normally I have trouble smiling during an opener).

4) My outfit, my usual daygame shirt was in the wash so I wore a more formal shirt which in retrospect works better for nightgame. I've bought some muscle t-shirts which I think will give a more casual look for daygame if I'm not wearing a shirt.

I need to be more reserved, more mysterious. Need to make them work harder for information about me. Generally sharpen up banter and conversation so I can hook more quickly in daygame.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:15 pm

Progress with June... I was a bit slow on sending the icebreaker but decided to take a risk and send it at midnight. Because I thought this would be better than the following morning. This is what transpired:
00:00 Ray: hi June, I'm home now at last :) I hope you got your omelette prepared for tomorrow :) cu Raymond [we had discussed diet foods, see also below]
18:35 June: Hello Raymond, how are you today? I just finished work and get home... Hope you had good day... :)
19:32 Ray: Yes similar thing here, busy day :) Lets grab that drink or bite to eat, how does your schedule look from Friday on [thanks Chase, I'm using the "grab" wording to avoid it coming off sounding like a formal date]
19:42 June: I'm going to work until 9pm or 10pm on Friday night... How about Sun ?
19:50 Ray: Okay..what time did u have in mind? earlier is better for me [I normally go to my mum's for dinner on Sundays, thought maybe I'd take June to Botanic Gardens in the day]
19:51 June: How about 7pm sunday night?
[fuck, drafted a lot of replies saying no what about later/earlier etc... eventually decided to KISS and blow off the family dinner, well this isn't a disaster because I've streamlined my social life considerably, ditched a whole lot of friends who tool me, and I'm also reducing contact with family for similar reasons, also I can't eat the food my mum cooks atm]
20:12 Ray: okay, then lets go to pho [restaurant], that's a permissible diet food :) :)
20:23 June: hehe ok cool... see you soon... have a good night :))

Yes this is promising indeed. Plan of attack:

1. We'll spend about 20~30min at pho but we'll probably have to sit opposite each other at a communal table so unlikely any kino. I'll order and pay for us in Vietnamese, they know that I do this in this restaurant so hopefully that'll be a bit of social proof. It's a bit of a fine line because I don't want to show off and/or become boyfriend material. At the same time there's guys out there who are into the bamboo and just want an Asian looking woman and don't care about their culture. I want to differentiate myself from those guys. Hmm. I'll try for some banter and deep diving over the meal. I'll ask her a bit about her dating experiences in Vietnam and in Australia to try and get a sense of how I can best close this deal. If appropriate I may drop some boyfriend disqualifiers in there (any tips/guidance on this would be appreciated).

2. When we finish I'll say "let's go" and grab her by the hand and lead her down the street. If she asks where we are going I'll say "you'll see, it's close by here". We will go to a bar which I like which is 3~4 city blocks away, very quiet on a weeknight and you can sit on a couch. She probably doesn't drink, so we'll just have soda waters and I'll see if I can get some touch and kino going. We'll stay for 1 drink.

3. Then again I'll say "let's go" and grab her by the hand and this time I'll take her to sit by the river, this is a further couple of city blocks away. We will go past my car and pick up something to sit on and a sleeping bag so we can be warm (someone mentioned they keep one in the car at all times, good idea). If she asks what is happening at this point I'll tell her we are going to look at the stars by night. Hopefully the weather is good (if it isn't I'll try to get a car based makeout going). Escalate...close!

Fingers crossed :)
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Another useful outing...day + night game

Postby ray_zorse » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:31 pm

Before I begin, the stricter diet is going extremely well -- I've lost around 2~3kg this week. I had extra time with my kids b/c youngest son's birthday, house got trashed as usual, had a deadline at work, totally stressful week and my sleep has been all over the place but I had basically caught up by this morning (Friday morning) so went to the gym and then had a sleep in. I found it hard to concentrate at work so I shut down the computer at 17.30 and went sarging :)

Starbucks
I was on a mission to compliment everybody I spoke to that day, so I told the serving chick that I liked her earrings (she didn't hear so I said it again and she accepted the compliment), asked how she was going today and gave my order. She wasn't sure if I'd ordered soy or regular milk, so she asked me and I said regular, then kicked myself because I could have said with a straight face "Breast milk, please" and then laughed and told her regular. My idea is to go a bit BMOCy in this way, get it established early on that I notice her as a woman, and then say outrageously sexual stuff whenever it occurs to me.

Spoke to a number of cuties, one of them I stopped on the way to her table (while I was sitting down) and delivered the totally cute line, asked what she was up to and she said study so I teased her about setting up camp in there. Another one was doing psychology homework and I suggested she may need a human subject to practice on, but she wasn't too interested and returned to her work. As I was leaving I addressed the camping one by name and said bye, see you later and she was happy (smiled).

The street
Lost count here, some highlights... woman about my age with a yellow top I told her "I could not help but notice your yellow top, you look great" or similar and we chatted a moment, whatever event she was going to I told her she would have no trouble picking up guys in her current outfit and she laughed and we went our separate ways.

Another one was a hot 22-year old Eurasian coming out of a shop and I stopped her and told her she looked amazingly cute...for a Jehovah's witness. hahaha she was amused although she pretended to be cross, so I touched her arm and smiled and said I was only teasing her, at this point she introduced her mum who was coming out of the shop and so I chatted with them for a while, they invited me to their convention and I said "would there be more girls as cute as you?" and other similar stuff. Should have number closed the mum, she was a bit flirtatious hahaha but I won't be in their city in the near future I guess.

Another highlight was a lovely tall girl in black and white walking with 2 friends, she was slightly behind them so I stopped her for a moment and told her she was totally cute and she was happy, I asked what she was doing and if she was with the other girls and she said yes, I said "so does that mean you wouldn't have time for a quick coffee with me" and she said "I'm married, I don't have coffee with strange men" so I smiled and said "only discreet ones" and she liked that. I let her go on her way.

I called in briefly at a balcony bar but no women mingling around, there was one group which didn't look that approachable (at my current skill level) so I left.

Stopped a lovely tallish girl in a black lace dress who was crossing the street, I was halfway across the pedestrian crossing when I made eye contact with her and gave her a compliment and walked back with her, I asked what she was up to and she said meeting friends and indicated the meeting spot, I said "what would your friends think if they saw you hitting on strange men?" and she said "ohh, uhh, they wouldn't be too impressed!" and I replied "but they know you have a playful side"... and we batted this around a minute or so, she then said she was going to wait for her friends, so I touched her on the shoulder and wished her goodbye.

I also opened a hot young girl with shitloads of makeup on in a group, her friend immediately started telling me to fuck off, out of luck and so forth but I held my frame and
kept talking, teased the cockblocking chick about how she could go to the police academy to learn how to stop things getting out of hand, anyway it turned out I'd opened a 15 year old hahaha so I said something like "no way, thought you were much older, then again I could hardly see anything underneath all that makeup!" hahaha.

I then started walking down by the river to see if I could scope out a good private spot to set up the sleeping bag when I pull someone there, it wasn't great although possible. Approached another woman who was on the way to a dance class, she turned out to be married but was OK to chat for a bit, a funny thing happened when we walked in tandem up to a power pole or similar, she did not seem clear where she was going so I grabbed her around the shoulders and pulled her over to my side of the pole but I think she was a little freaked that I was getting physical and left soon after.

At this point I'd done maybe 15 approaches and I'd used a fair bit of compliance (hey, stop for a moment) and I had been on a mission to practice bantering and turning things sexual, for this reason I did not attempt any deep diving as I normally do (a lot of my approaches turn into a kind of 20 questions as I struggle to keep it going and I'm trying to avoid this). I failed to hook but nevertheless had a moderately entertaining time, and definitely improved my banter.

I made my way gradually around the edge of the city, wasn't too sure what to do, was hungry but unsure where to get food that would be OK for my diet, did various approaches here and there but nothing worth mentioning.

There was one woman I wished I had opened, I noticed her lace skirt as she was crossing the street a bit ahead of me, she seemed to be heading for a group of guys so I didn't open immediately, she then walked past them and I thought she would go into one of the bars in the street and I could casually come in after, but she continued on and I realized she was going into a carpark. By this stage she was a long way away and I have not really wanted to chase women down since I now have the "hey stop for a minute" opener in my toolkit.

I noticed that as it was getting a bit later (though not dark yet) it was much harder to find women alone, they seemed to have gotten into their groups or met their boyfriends for the evening. So eventually ended up back at the car, ready to start night game in the area I'd chosen (I went and grabbed some food in Little Vietnam on the way).

The beachfront
Since I now have public sex in my toolkit I'm less worried about logistics and I'm keen to find some venues further afield. After parking by the beach I went to the local pub but nobody worth approaching, if I'd had more balls I could have approached some small groups I suppose. I noticed a circle of about 20~30 hot young women in netball t-shirts in the main room of the pub, again it was a bit hard to approach, I noticed a pair with an empty seat either side and was weighing up the approach when their friends got back and filled the seats so decided not to worry about it (I don't want to approach from behind). So I decided to blow this place off and went back to the car to get changed into my nightgame gear, brush my teeth, apply more cologne etc.

The main street
For a Friday night it was pretty dead, there were about 10~12 bars on this street and I went into about half of them, I don't think I did any approaches inside but I did a fair few in the street, some of them were promoting (handing out coupons for stuff) so we kind of approached each other at the same time. The best one was circus chick, when she told me her occupation is circus training I stepped back a bit, looked her body up and down and said "wow, you must have a tight body hidden under all those layers" and she was up for it. I think I maybe could have number closed here, she was telling me a lot about places she goes in the city and maybe hinting to meet up there sometime, but I froze up a bit, I was trying to think of a yes-ladder but it didn't come, so after an awkward pause I just chatted with her a bit more and closed out.

The waterfront bar where I've number closed in the past
So I walked back past my car and down the beach some way to another main street and went to a bar I've been before which is near the beach. This was probably the best venue all night, because it wasn't too loud and there were heaps of women there, I would have approached about 10~15 and gotten pretty good reactions.

One of them seemed pretty keen but unfortunately I was cock blocked by the arrival back to the table of her group, there was a drink in front of me so I asked some guy if I'd taken his seat and he said yes, but instead of polite-me just getting back and returning it I stayed put, saying vaguely "oh... can we get another seat somewhere" and apparently they could. But some orbiter pulled my girl away to outside and I didn't want to chase so I just stayed at the table getting ignored for a while and then thanked them for their hospitality, shook hands and left to chat up more women at the bar.

In one case I told a tall woman "I couldn't help noticing how tall and cute you are" (this is a line which works well for me) and started chatting, but unbelievably got cockblocked by the same orbiter who came up and engaged her, so I started talking to her friend, who was also cute, and this went fine, except I overdid it with the chase frames (they were trying to leave and I suggested her friend was intending to stay and hit on random guys instead, and the one I was talking to got a bit offended and started doing that smirky sort of shrug that girls do when they're telling you to fuck off).

Chatted to various other people, some guys, a girl I'd opened earlier who turned out to have a boyfriend, etc, but eventually decided to blow. As I was leaving I had the following text convo with June from previous post:
22:48 June: Hi Raymond, hows your day? I hope you had a good day...
22:49 June: Do you still want to catch up? If so, may we make it on Sat afternoon if you are free becoz I'm working on sunday night as well...
23:07 Ray: yeah, we can do that...btw, where r u now? if u dont have early start we can go for a drink, im not far away (place) [it was probably unnecessary of me to push for immediate meeting but I was kind of bored and I felt it was an okay risk because June seems keen]
23:08 June: oh im in city
23:09 June: do u want to meet up at 5.30pm on sunday?
23:09 June: sorry i mean saturday
23:12 Ray: yeah thats fine, so I take it you're going to sleep now? how was work?
23:14 June: cool... Today is very busy... Yeah Im going to sleep now becoz im tired ...
23:14 June: Enjoy your night and take care ... Night :)) Raymond
23:16 Ray: cu tom. sleep well :)

This is astonishingly warm for someone I've only met so briefly. I suspect that she deliberately bumped into me as an IOI. This woman knows what she wants! hahaha

On the way out of this bar I also engaged one of the netballers "hey, are you one of the netballers I saw at [bar] earlier... I wanted to say hi but you were in a pretty tight group", we got introduced by name and she agreed they are pretty tight, told me a little about their adventure and noted that the group was down to about 50% of its former size... by this time most of the others had gained admittance so they went off to the bar, I think she touched me on the shoulder as she was saying bye so I probably could have persisted, but I decided to keep going (it would be uphill going trying to isolate her from her group I thought, and I didn't want to become an orbiter).

Totally crap venues
I then went to the fashionable shopping street some way from the beach which is supposed to have great nightlife etc, well it blew... went into one club for all of 20 minutes, the music was shit and the crowd ancient (without girlschase however I could only aspire to this kind of crowd, as it is I go for mid-20s women, 30s sometimes). I approached some women for the sake of form but they were pretty ugly. Came out and found I had a parking ticket, fuck! Tried another club and it was crap, there were some hot women but all sitting on couches or around tables in groups with lots of guys so it was hard to get a look in, I opened a few women at the bar but nothing doing.

The last club I went to try I couldn't find but eventually blew it off and decided to go to the city, this was a shame because I'm trying not to become a regular at my favourite city clubs (subject of earlier FR "badass night out" among others) but overall I had to go where I felt there would be the best chance of some pussy and that was it. Not to mention that I knew the music would be good and I could have a good time and just work a bit of game into it, instead of focussing totally on game.

The pussy factory
Yes lots of Asian totty as usual, but pretty tight groups which are hard to break into (Asian women are really into defending each other's pussies). Lots of drunk guys trying to grab women and pull them in for dances and so on. Which makes it a bit hard to calibrate since I have to show leadership without being like those guys. Anyway I certainly did more than 20 approaches, maybe closer to 30 (my usual shotgun style), I had some dances with drunk girls and copped a few feels (but blew them off when I realized they were drunk).

The chick there that I liked the most I'll call Connie. I saw her come in with 2 friends and noticed her style which was jeans, some kind of jacket/vest and a headband, she looked really interesting as well as being cute, quite dark skinned Asian looks and big sexy lips. So I gradually made my way over, pre-opened from the side and told her "I saw you come in and I couldn't help noticing your outfit, you look fabulous!" (I've been trying to impart more emotion into my compliments) and we got introduced, she then indicated her friends (who were dancing and I couldn't easily engage them) so I said "ohh, so I've gotta pass the test huh, get the picture" with a grin, anyway conversation wasn't really possible so I eventually disengaged, pinged her a number of times and eventually (much later) said to her something like "when you finish your beer come and have a dance with me" and she looked me dead in the eyes and said "ookay", however when I went to take her hand 5min later she wasn't into it, fuck, I persisted a bit and we started dancing together and looking into each other's eyes with me smiling a sexual smile that widened into a genuine smile cos I was really happy, that's when she ejected, oh well... so I went off to dance somewhere else, met other chicks and so on, but a bit of weird shit went on with Connie also.

Firstly I was dancing on the stage with some other guys around me when the first of Connie's friends came up onto the stage next to me, so I opened her with "hi there" and we started to do a sexy dance with the others watching... this went fine so she went back to her group and then the second one came up to me and did the same thing, got another sexy dance out and this was great too, had my hand on her arse which was really lovely (I digged this 2nd chick), anyway soon enough she goes back too and then I think they pushed Connie over towards me, she came up on stage with her back to me and I just placed my hands lightly on her shoulders and danced a little, but she ejected soon after... hmm was a little puzzled at all of their behaviour so a little later I followed Connie towards the bar and tried to verbally engage her again, first I tried to confirm her name was actually Connie and I hadn't misheard, but I should have just grabbed her by the hand and taken her outside to get to the bottom of things, I think I failed in leadership here by being too timid and basically too keen to try to differentiate my own "softly softly" non chasing approach from all the drunk guys. Anyway she ejected again after a very brief conversation that I could not really hear. But for some reason was hanging around me a bit, totally weird-ass shit all this.

I was in the process of chatting to a Korean chick when lights went up, but I could see this chick was not gonna detach from her group (it was very difficult just moving her outside so we could hear properly, as she insisted on going to get a guy friend to come out with us, she was still happy to talk but we got cockblocked by bouncer kicking us out), I suggested we all go for coffee nearby but nothing doing. So eventually I just left by myself. Towards the bottom of the stairs I spotted a guy I had made friends with, making out with one of the drunk chicks I'd danced with (tattooed girl, she looked hot even if she wasn't that svelte)... so I offered them a lift, thinking this guy needed a boost in the logistics department, but nothing doing, he was trying to figure stuff out with her, but she was drunk, so good luck to him I guess. I doubt he got laid.

The deep-house party
Wasn't ready to throw in the towel so I did what I did last time (FR: badass night out) and went by this other club, well paid $10 entry but the beats were not totally to my taste, there was a bit of pussy there but nothing like last time. Mostly pretty unattractive. After checking out the various dancefloors and evaluating various girls from the viewpoint of approaching, I went back to the bar, positioned myself behind a quite attractive chick, but failed to open when she turned towards me, realized I was tired and it was time to go home.

Wrap up
At this point I had been gaming for 10 hours straight. I think the most valuable part was the daygame (improved banter and early sexualization)... maybe if I can combine this with the deep diving which I can already do (but I want to make it deeper), then I might bring home the bacon?

However I think there was another factor to my lack of success which could be my voice fundamentals, I have a lot of trouble with my voice, because I am hearing impaired, and I am taking voice classes which have helped enormously, but improvement is very slow, especially as I do not really have time to do the homework properly. In the car on the way from daygame to nightgame I diagnosed that my voice could be an issue and I think I improved matters in this area for the rest of the night. Anyway I've been practicing breathing from my diaphragm (which is one of the main things taught in voice class) and this is useful because I need to breathe from my diaphragm in order to breathe properly while I'm doing my gunslinger walk (cannot breathe from your chest if you have your chest thrust fully out and upwards). Getting it. Yawn
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All coming unravelled...damnit!

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:51 am

So a promising interaction is now in trouble, check out the latest from June:
14:06 June: Hi Raymond, may we catch up at 6pm becoz im afraid of i finish late a bit... Come and see me at [her workplace]
14:06 June: please
14:23 Ray: meet me outside (place -- near her workplace) (address) cant miss it. ill shoot for 18.15 could u close up by then?
16:21 June: becoz i have one friend go with me... do u want to go to (place...far away) to have something to eat with us? If so please see us at [her workplace]... we work there
16:30 Ray: wow showing me off already ;) lets postpone to another time that would be more private. after u get back to city tonite maybe.
17:03 June: ok
17:03 June: but its quite late
17:19 Ray: say 22.00ish?
20:01 June: hi
20:01 June: im in city (place)
20:01 June: wanna catch up at 8h30??
This is a bit rich, I'm now chilling with some friends and she's not replied to my previous text about arrangements and suddenly I have to jump... I don't want to comply directly but I still want to see her
20:05 Ray: yeah okay ive just had dinner w some other friends will leave in a bit. might be closer to 9
20:07 June: ok
20:27 Ray: on my way, meet me outside the police station cnr (street) and (street) in 20min
This was to give her time to walk there, it's a couple of city blocks through a heavily trafficked pedestrian mall so no issue getting there at all
20:50 June: please come to (place -- she hasn't left)
I was totally worried I would get there and find she was still with a group of friends and I would have no status other than an orbiter all night
20:52 Ray: nah, its too loud there, im not in party mode atm.. I know the place to go where we can talk a bit, get properly acquainted
20:58 June: becoz i live in (street)
20:59 June: if we can meet up here, its close to my place to come home afterward ... i hope u understand my situation
In other words there's fuck all hope of me getting sex tonight... I'm not too happy
21:02 Ray: oh well, maybe some other time.. ive just got to the bar, its called (name) bar opposite (originally proposed meeting place).. im comfortable here, can get u home later of course
21:08 June: Yeah, maybe I go home... I worked all day and thought catch up with you but its ok...
21:09 June: becoz Im quote tired now after work... but if u want to meet up,,I thought should somewhere close (street), its easy for me to get home... enjoy your night
21:12 June: and one more thing, I was not showing off anything with you... just my workmate was hungry, She asked me to have dinner after work but I remember the date tonight with u.. so just ask if u r interesting... just friends... its all
Not sure what she means by that last part, hope she's not saying I'm friendzoned, however the language of "date" seems to imply boyfriendzoned
21:17 Ray: yeah thats okay I was only teasing u, sorry I can be a bit playful like that & forget to dial it down w people I don't know well. look, schedule me a bit more time next time & im sure we can work things out...hope u get a good rest, long day eh xx

Hmm.. how did I do?

Maintained my frame... I was starting to think she was being a bit of a pain in the arse, constantly rescheduling the date and asking for compliance, have to knock this on the head if I'm going to get anywhere with her. But I'm sure I could have been smoother and navigated this resistance instead of going home dateless, especially given I'd already blown off my friends and driven all the way into the city... fuck, and she couldn't walk a few blocks to see me? Sounds like it was just going to be a quick cup of coffee and then "I have to go home" kinda deal, that's not OK when I'm the one investing and coming into the city to see her.

All I know is the old compliant me would have gone along with her demands and then wondered why her pussy didn't get wet, hopefully I have maintained the attraction? She certainly seems to be falling all over herself to justify things and becoming defensive, so this appears to be a sign of investment. That last text I did not really need to send, normally I try never to send the last text and I could have been an asshole and just ignored her. But I was worried she might go into auto rejection so wanted to be a bit nicer.

Anyway, around the time I texted "im comfortable here" I had started another interaction, got some solid investment by having these 2 girls at the next table come and join me at mine (I opened the first one with "hey, come over here" while the second one was at the bar, when she came back I had them move their bags, coat etc over to my table).

The first one was a barista by trade, had moved to my country 2 years back but this didn't give us much mileage. Frankly she was a bit boring. I tried to prepare to turn things sexual by asking about the conversations she has with customers at work, but she said she's just working at the machine all day. She wanted to know what I did and I said "we help companies to save money" and didn't budge, I just practiced some long pauses in the conversation while I stared at the bridge of her nose to get her talking again and this went okay, I'm not really that good at it but getting there.

The second one was a psychologist, not as hot but not bad. I asked her a few introductory questions about whether she's in private practice or research etc, and then turned things sexual by asking how she would handle having a hot man come in and talk all about his relationship problems while meanwhile she just wanted to jump his bones, she replied that she would refer him to someone else, I kept it going a little after this.

I was starting to get bored with psychology so I turned back to the first one and said "hey, have you got a new tatt?" as I had just noticed it (was a bit shiny, looked like some kinda film on it, as seems to be usual for new tatts and I asked about it). Got a fair bit of mileage out of the tatts too, asked her how she chose the shop and she mentioned she had used them before so I started teasing her about all the naughty intimate tatts she has, hehe it seems the original decision to go into this shop was pretty spontaneous so I qualified her on that.

Around this time they decided to move on so I guess I hadn't exactly hooked, if they'd decided to stay I might have number closed the tattooed one eventually, but I was really just practicing my banter and rapport.

I ended up leaving while they were settling their bill and so I walked around a bit, normally I would go out and replace my date by cold approach if she flaked like this, but it was 22:00 and I felt that street approach was not going to have as much potential as bar/club game however I did not feel like more bars/clubs so basically decided to go home.

I called into one bar on the way back to the car though, it looked quite expensive, crowd was in suits and fancy dresses and they were watching rugby (I had not bothered to put on my nightgame outfit and was still dressed in jeans and a muscle t-shirt, I looked pretty good though and had no problems getting in). I did 2 approaches:

The first approach was to a HB9 with curves in a beautiful dress, who came back to the bar and sat beside me after I'd ordered my drink (because she was in a group of 3, the other 2 were also good looking). I knew this might happen because I'd seen her handbag previously. She did not respond to my pre-opener touch (which was admittedly pretty subtle) nor my "hi there" which was slightly after, so I think she didn't want to be hit on and I didn't push it. I would have done better with a "hey stop there for a moment" opener as she walked past but unfortunately I was facing the bar and didn't see her until she came into her seat. This would have been great practice had she pre-opened. I later saw other guys trying to hit on her (at least that was my interpretation), not sure how well they did though.

The second approach was to a not-hot married lady sitting at a table near one of the TVs, I went over to her and sat down opposite (turning my body to the side as I sat in the chair so as not to be too intimidating) and asked her if she needed some company other than her mobile phone, I've found this to be a useful line in recent weeks. She said oh no my husband has just gone to get drinks so I asked her a few questions about her shopping (she had bags with her) and then said I'd leave her to it.

Yeah, anyway, time to get a good sleep for the first time in ages. The best thing I did today was going to the gym for a 5km run and a good workout with weights, gonna do the same tomorrow. The second best was the dinner, very enjoyable, though I only ate Vietnamese coleslaw (goi), it was very yum. The rest of the day was forgettable...

Edit: My other number close, that I thought was solid, but flaked, rang me up, didn't get me the first time so I sent a text "hey there.. sup?" and she rang again today, she wanted to say that she didn't want to go on a date, but she apologized for having given me the wrong impression, as she had not wanted to refuse her number (hahaha the power of the yes-ladder), I told her that was fine (actually although she was attractive I wasn't really feeling it primally in the first place), and that I really appreciated her having taken the trouble to clarify the situation, because most girls don't do that, and that I was happy that when we bump into each other again things won't be awkward, so then we just chatted a bit more about dating, asking people out and so on and got a few chuckles in, she's a really great girl so I'm happy to have that sorted.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:45 am

Taking a bit of a break from game, got some stuff to do on my dissertation. Kinda regret not opening a cute 30s-looking woman this morning, walking on a quiet street towards the Courthouse, probably a legal bod of some sort, I'd just picked up some stuff from there and was walking back to the car. Still I had to get to work...

I have setup a date with an older lady I met some weeks back while clubbing, she's not someone I'd put a lot of effort into, in fact I forgot her number was in my phone. We had tried to set up a meeting and failed to find a mutually suitable time (she works a lot) and then left it. Since my pipeline was pretty empty I got things going again, and I think she may be good to pull back to my place for a quick lay. I hope so.

Exchanged the following text with June, who I am rather keen on, have to keep reminding myself she's replaceable. Need to get that pipeline full or I'll slide into scarcity mentality again :(
12:11 Ray: hey June, its beautiful weather today :) how's your day? I'd like to do something fun with u, to make up for failed arrangements last time...what time u finish study? :)
17:08 June: Hello Raymond, my day is okay... I'm afraid I can not make it up today becoz Im busy today... I'm exciting for summer coming... becoz I will go to the beach...

Hmm for 5hrs I thought she was flaking for good and in that 5hrs I really regretted sending the previous text "yeah thats okay I was only ... schedule me a bit more time ... long day eh xx" because it removed a lot of the power from me in the interaction. Basically it was rewarding her for creating drama. Note to self: Any hint of drama go silent for 24hrs or more... Anyway looks like I have plugged a leaky ship maybe?

Not too sure where to go from here. I want to wait till tomorrow and say something like "bet you'll look cute in your summer bikini ;)" ... this would be kinda close to turning things sexual which is a good thing. But turning things sexual by text message is kinda risky too. Also giving girls too many compliments can make u look like an orbiter a bit. I dunno. I don't think I'll press for meetup ATM. It's always a bit risky proposing a time cos if they're busy and then you continue pressing for meetup, you look a bit chasey. In this case it was a calculated risk because I wanted to try to create urgency, guess that didn't come off.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:15 pm

I have had a fair bit of trouble getting myself to open women on the way to work, especially near the tram stop as I guess I'm sensitive to becoming "that guy"... well today I did some opens :)

As I got out of the car I spotted a woman in a nice dress, so I locked the car and walked at a slightly faster pace until I was alongside her, opened her with "hi there, where are you off to today?" well it turns out she was off to submit her thesis, so I asked a few questions like had she got it bound and had she applied for her thesis allowance etc (just to show I'm not clueless in these matters) and then I asked the topic, it was a creative writing thesis and basically a love letter. Haha! So I said a bit longer than the average love letter? Are you good at writing love letters? So how many boyfriends do you have, anyway? Just one was the answer. Not deterred I said I bet he loves getting the odd love letter and she agreed. I said you have to be careful what precedent you set though...once the frequency drops off ;) Then I realized this was a bit of a downer, I could have recovered by suggesting she get some more boyfriends to correspond with, or starting to talk about the explicit content of these letters, but actually she started walking across my path so I just put my hand on her shoulder to guide her and said I was heading off another way and left her. She was happy.

Halfway to work I opened another cutie, a little maybe middle Eastern girl who was coming out of an apartment, just locked eyes with her straightaway and said hello! She came a little closer and I said "I was just walking past when I noticed how amazingly cute you are", however I didn't deliver the line as well as I could have, voice fundamental a bit off and maybe looked a bit serious (though I added a smile eventually) and also didn't follow up with my name. We paused a moment and she said "thankyou!!" (in a cute accent) and made to leave, so I just touched her on the shoulder, smiled and continued on my way.

Then at the tram stop I spotted a tall girl in a lovely floral print dress playing with her phone while waiting for the lights, she was a bit away from me and I hate girls on the phone so I didn't open, but after I crossed the road I saw her coming my way so I turned back and said "hey, stop for a moment...that's a very cute dress you have on. My eye was drawn to you (touching her shoulder)... I'm Raymond", she introduced herself too and I asked what she was up to today, she said just going to work... I said the weather is so amazing today nobody should have to go to work!! and she agreed, I said "well I bet you'll brighten somebody's day in the office!" she asked what I was doing and I said just a half-day, I have a class later but I'll do some work first... she indicated the way she was going, I said me too, I asked what kind of work she does... she said she's a student adviser, I said "ohh...(sexy smile)...can you advise me on how to meet more hot women like you?" and she laughed and asked me what I do. I said we help companies improve their operations...realized this was a bit of a downer so then I said "but I prefer helping women improve their operations"... she laughed and said "how's that going, helping women with their operations?" I replied "today's results maa maa...medium!" she then indicated her building which is the same as my building. So we got into the foyer and I said "amazing, we are in the same building too, I'm on the 6th floor... why don't we go for coffee sometime?" and she said "come and find me!", skipping off towards the careers centre... I said "hey!! give me a bit more to work with huh!!" and she turned and wished me a great day and went. Haha.

I'm really getting better at the banter and taking things more sexual.... speaking of which I've just finished my Japanese homework. We are practicing "no wa" , "no o" and "koto"... Here it is:
Watashi no shumi wa karaoke o utau koto desu. (My hobby is singing karaoke).
Demo, josei to futari de heya ni hairu toki ni, utau no o wasuremasu. (But, when I go into a karaoke room with just a girl as the two of us, we forget to sing).
Desu kara, renshuu suru koto ga dekimasen. (That being so, I cannot practice).
Kore o suru no wa, uchi de ii deshou. (Doing that, would be better at home).
(Neisu ni suru no ga amari raku ja arimasen). (Doing it on the couch is not that comfortable).

Hahaha I've actually been taking my homework sexual for a long time even before Girlschase just for fun (and because I have the hots for the teacher), didn't realize how important it is though.

My Japanese teacher is very cute and we get on well, lots of banter and deep diving all the time, sometimes after a class our cheeks are sore from laughing. She says she loves her boyfriend so I have scaled back my plans to scale this summit. But it sounds like her life is pretty boring and reading between the lines I don't hear a lot going for the boyfriend except he sleeps a lot while she does the housework. Hmm.

But given recent escalation problem with the substitute teacher I have been racking my brains for a solution, I would like to give my number to my teacher and have her give it to the other teacher, which I'm sure she'd be willing to do. But the problem is this would not send a message of discretion and might embarrass the other teacher. So I'm not gonna do that. I think the best solution is simply to fuck the first teacher's brains out, and then have her pass on a recommendation to the other teacher. It's really the only way I can see. So I'm considering burning it down by at least asking my usual teacher out for coffee.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:22 am

Just typed up a huge post about the interactions with the JP teachers and the 15~20 girls I opened today and the details of all the conversations. Clicked on something by mistake and it all disappeared. Fuck. I cannot be bothered entering it all again. Next time. Did an insta-date with an HK tourist and got a flakey number close with a Chinese business major who was hot hot hot. Nothing much to come of tonight's work except experience (forgot to apply the sexual vibe again so insta-date didn't go anywhere). Did exchange names with a hot tattooed bartender chick who I was flirting with last week, might be something there? Social proof since I bring all my dates to her bar, hahaha. Banter is improving, came out with a lot of outrageous sexual frames although mostly failed to hook because I was concentrating on banter rather than deep diving I guess.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:21 am

Interesting day yesterday. Well firstly it was a fucking pear shaped day in Court and I wandered around the city for an hour or so getting my head together afterwards, spotted a few really hot women and was keen to approach but I was in my head a bit. Anyway so went and picked up my kids and had a pretty good time with them at the museum, etc. Ex fucked me over in the evening by being half an hour late to changeover (judge has given me an extra half hour, big woop, but this doesn't start till next week), anyway so I was late for my date. I didn't speak to ex or make eye contact, this would have looked a bit reactive but honestly I'm past caring, have been thinking for a while I'm rewarding her too much with my attention and I'm gonna stop this. I'll only acknowledge her presence if she's done something I want to reward.

The date!
I won't bother giving her a name, but anyway I met her some weeks back at a bar and number closed, I made friends with her friends too (who encouraged us to get together) but ended up moving on since she was in party mode and I was not getting the lurrve and was at risk of becoming an orbiter. She's oldish (40~50ish I think) but pretty cute. I had had trouble making a date with her due to her schedule and forgot her number was in my phone, but as mentioned in a previous journal entry I made a date with her when my pipeline got a bit empty.

So I followed process pretty well! Thanks Smith for your useful answers to my questions on process. Built some intrigue (I don't think she gathered a single fact about me, not my profession, my age, nothing, as I made noncommittal responses to her questions and quickly turned it back to her)... eye contact was not too bad although I didn't manage to make any sexually charged pauses since she talked a lot.

Because I was late she had chosen a dark spot outside in the beer garden and after I kissed her hello, I had to sit at 90 degrees to her, this was okay (and I got a bit of touch going by pretending to check her temperature after she said something and a few other bits and pieces), but after we got a second drink I moved her to a couch and started to get a bit of kino going. I took her hands and commented on her jewellery at length, commented on her toenail polish and sandals and ended up with her leg in my lap as she talked and talked, I didn't shut her down because she was sharing valuable emotional stuff & stuff about how she sees herself etc. So I was just stroking her leg a bit and holding hands with her intermittently. Nice.

I was trying to think how to structure the pull when a flautist started up and it got a bit loud, so I just said "let's blow"... her car was parked out front (she had pointed it out previously) and so I said "you drive, my car is further away, we can come back for it later" (this was a mistake, as will be seen, but I was keen that nothing interrupt the flow). We got in and I told her to go straight ahead. We kept talking, we have a common interest in motorbikes so this gave a bit of material. When we were about halfway to my house she said "where are we going, anyway?" and I said "straight ahead". Hahaha. I directed her to my joint and let her in (she stopped for a smoke while I went around the back, since I had left my house keys in my car, luckily the back door is never locked).

I poured some drinks while she took a toilet break. I forgot to have her take her shoes off, another mistake in retrospect. Now I put some disco music on and showed her the lights, smoke machine, lasers etc in my living room. In retrospect I wouldn't be such a showoff because it wasn't necessary. We started to grind together and I started to get an erection. At this point I was sittin' pretty. Next I commented on her tattoo and lifted up her shirt to have a look, it's a full back dragon one. Nice. This is where things went a bit pear shaped.

The missed escalation window
As I was lifting up the shirt she said she would take it off. I assumed she meant so I could see the tattoo better. I could see it perfectly fine so I said "oh you will...eventually". There might have been a bit more going on here, I'm not really sure, maybe I wanted to take things a bit slower and build a bit more comfort between us? But I can see as clear as day now, that I should have skipped some steps, trouble was I was following my own process and not adapting it to the circumstances. Had no idea this was an escalation window... thing is, if I'd done as she invited, she would have felt more in control of the seduction.

So as I put her shirt down and turned her around again to face me she started saying stuff like "I'm funny about being touched"... and I said "hmm, hadn't noticed that up until this point"... she then said "I have rules" with a pretty smart alecky expression on her face, this seemed utterly ridiculous to me at the time, she went on that she doesn't do one night stands so I laughed and said "well it's lucky we've met twice then isn't it"... she said something more about rules and I just smiled and said "right" and went in to kiss her. In retrospect this was a mistake (1) I acknowledged her rules (2) the kiss was reactive (3) I was too aggressive about it because I was trying to shut down her thread and I used too much tongue and it was basically a big "fuck you" and dominant move, it didn't feel good and I broke it off pretty soon.

Getting blown off
Decided to back off a bit and we went into the kitchen to get the drinks and talked a little more. After a while I decided to take another shot and so I led her by hand back into the living room/dance room and started to put some more music on. However she sat down on the floor and wouldn't get up to dance with me, indicating I should sit with her instead. I didn't comply of course. Eventually I got her up and went for a little more kino and she started getting into her bullshit again. So then I did something rather funny which was, I had pushed my mattress into my kids bedroom which is behind a curtain, so I just basically pushed her through the curtain and we fell into the bed. We were hugging on the bed and things were looking a bit better when good ol' logical brain kicked in again and she started getting antsy and saying stuff like, I had better let go or she could get angry. Hmm. I relaxed my grip and had her kiss me, but it wasn't passionate, and then she got up and said she was going and I could have a lift back to my car if I wanted. I said 5 minutes, lets just play around together for 5 minutes and then you can go if you still want to. She left. I stayed lying on my bed for a while, figuring she probably wouldn't really leave without me, but apparently after a while she's sent me a text (I saw it later) saying "bus is leaving if u want a lift..." and then went. Fuck. Hahaha I probably deserved this, the whole thing was pretty funny.

The take home
The interesting thing is that these days I don't even notice rejection, even though I'm not getting a lot of lays I'm firmly in an abundance mindset, all I could think about was how I was delighted to have managed a successful pull, I had followed process superbly, and then I started to analyze her strange behaviour (obviously she was DTF when she came to my place since she's not stupid, she knew where we were going of course)... and realized I had missed an escalation window, I just thought, thank God for Chase and GC since I would never have cracked this without help. Good stuff studs ;)

The aftermath
So now I had to go get my car, it was only 22.00 so it was easy to get a bus and a tram down there. This took about an hour. While I was waiting for the bus I saw a group of teenagers playing around at the adjacent bus stop, and I was really keen to approach this one chick in a long flowing skirt. But I was too chicken. Approaching groups is hard though. Anyway so I got on the bus and they continued their playing around, when I looked around to observe, a mature Chinese lady caught my eye and smiled. She was in the row behind me. So I introduced myself, well she barely spoke English, but she indicated she had just finished work and she is a masseur! Great stuff! So I got some kino going by having her flex her arms while I felt her muscles and complimenting her on how strong she is. She lapped it up. After a while we were still struggling to communicate so I had her move over and sat in the seat next to her (should have moved her into my row in retrospect). I tried asking where she lives, she didn't understand. I told her she is very pretty, she looks good and various other things and this went down well. We got to my stop so I grabbed her hand and attempted to lead her off the bus (I've been doing this kinda thing a lot lately), she wouldn't comply, but she farewelled me with a smile. I wish she had complied, imagine having a masseur in my rotation :) We could teach each other Mandarin and English too, talk about mutual benefit :) :) I wish I had got her number. Will have to be more focussed next time. Maybe I will see her again, since the shopping centre and bus station are right near my home... I hope so :)
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby Smith » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:22 pm

Hey Ray,

Good job pulling her home!

The missed escalation window
As I was lifting up the shirt she said she would take it off. I assumed she meant so I could see the tattoo better. I could see it perfectly fine so I said "oh you will...eventually". There might have been a bit more going on here, I'm not really sure, maybe I wanted to take things a bit slower and build a bit more comfort between us? But I can see as clear as day now, that I should have skipped some steps, trouble was I was following my own process and not adapting it to the circumstances. Had no idea this was an escalation window... thing is, if I'd done as she invited, she would have felt more in control of the seduction.

So as I put her shirt down and turned her around again to face me she started saying stuff like "I'm funny about being touched"... and I said "hmm, hadn't noticed that up until this point"... she then said "I have rules" with a pretty smart alecky expression on her face, this seemed utterly ridiculous to me at the time, she went on that she doesn't do one night stands so I laughed and said "well it's lucky we've met twice then isn't it"... she said something more about rules and I just smiled and said "right" and went in to kiss her. In retrospect this was a mistake (1) I acknowledged her rules (2) the kiss was reactive (3) I was too aggressive about it because I was trying to shut down her thread and I used too much tongue and it was basically a big "fuck you" and dominant move, it didn't feel good and I broke it off pretty soon.


It's good you can recognize the missed escalation window, which means you will be much better at spotting it in the future and recovering from it.
When you decline her 'investment' to take off her shirt, it probably made her feel 'cheap', so she went on to say how she doesn't do ONS blah blah blah as her anti slut defense. You had the right idea to thread cut her when she's expanding on her rules, because you don't want her to invest the conversation on these rules that she will break later ;) In this case, it's probably better to address it (state your frame and belief) before she kept expanding on it then change the topic immediately. You could say something like: "Well I don't really do ONS too. Sex is just sooo much better if you have a real connection with another person! but anyway...want something to drink?" (of course, don't say this if you really just want a ONS and don't wanna see her again)
Or "Well I think being able to express your sexuality and enjoy sex is a good thing, and I respect women more if they are able to enjoy it too."
You're not trying to argue with her. You're just simply stating your belief and she could choose to follow it later if she want. Also, it would be very hard to disagree with this, and if you have been deep diving well and made her feel connected to you, then you're both gonna get what you want. If you kept escalating, she's gonna get the idea that you guys have some kinda connection.

Always err on the side of too aggressive. I think the kiss was an ok move to shut her up. How did she react to the kiss? and how did u react to her reaction?

We were hugging on the bed and things were looking a bit better when good ol' logical brain kicked in again and she started getting antsy and saying stuff like, I had better let go or she could get angry. Hmm. I relaxed my grip and had her kiss me, but it wasn't passionate, and then she got up and said she was going and I could have a lift back to my car if I wanted.


It would have been better here to pull away and rebuild comfort, but you were pushing the boundary, so it was a good learning experience.

Good progress!
"When it seems impossible, when it seems like nothing is going to work, you're usually just a few millimeters away from making it happen." Anthony Robbins
"It's impossible to improve without failure" Johnny Soporno
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:05 am

Thanks for the tips Smith, I will think about your question and respond from my PC later, just posting a quick smartpjone update. I'm in a touristy spot camping with my kids for the w/e. The campground is a bit of a disaster PU wise. So many obese couples in their 60s+... hope I never get too old to chase tail & settle... hmm.

It's hard to do any real cold approach with kids in tow so I'm just focusing on building conversation. Lovely chick in the coffeeshop this morning, thought it might be family run so asked if she was related to the older lady making coffee, she wasn't, failed cold read but no biggie. Exchanged a lot of smiles and some compliments but no real conversation.

Chatted to a couple of mums in the playground by our tent, didn't really get them talking about themselves though.

Introduces myself to a couple of Irish chicks in koala park, had previously asked them if they'd seen my son who ran ahead. Went for some compliance in telling them to walk with us, didn't get it.

Matters improved in the coffee shop with what looked like a small tour group (8ppl or so). Spoke to a hot chick to ask if she waa part of the group and where everyone was from. She turned out to be Belgian. A pair of them were Japanese as I had suspected. So I had one of them come over to my table and commenced a conversation of decent length in Japanese. I was totally locked in, she wasn't. Turns out she is pretty young and in high school here. I told her she looks older. I used PinotNoir's tip of referring to her as "chan". Eventually dismissed her to go eat her food. We decided to leave so I called past her table later to say bye and good luck w her homework (as we'd been discussing w/e plans, yeah bit lame I know).

It's a shame I switched focus to this group cos the barista was very friendly and chatty and goes to uni near my home. I might have number closed, only remembered about her after getting back to the car. I think it would be too weird now to go back to her workplace and re-engage her. Damn.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:24 am

Hmm well today I actually stumbled upon a social event, had just gone to get some vegetarian food with my office buddy (a dude I went out for nightgame with in a previous FR), and went to the 2nd level of the restaurant and a whole lot of girls smiled at us as we came in, thought it was just the fundies talking, but as a matter of fact it was a postgraduate society meeting and they were welcoming us as new members, actually I knew a good proportion of the people in the room. Anyway, the girl who was organizing it I really liked (tall and Chinese) and we had a brief chat, she kept thinking I was a new student and saying she hadn't seen me before so I said we should definitely hang out together, it wasn't really that easy to get her number since she was busy organizing a big group of people but will chat to her later on.

So then we introduced ourselves to various other girls, heaps of them are Persian like my buddy and he seemed to be getting on pretty well with one of them. There's a hotty I've often seen in the kitchen, who also turns out to be Persian, I had her come over to our table and introduce herself, promised to chat with her later on sometime when I see her next. Then I turned my attention to some of the other Chinese girls there (as you do) and one of them was small and cute, I complimented her on her shirt and said she looked fabulous and chatted with her for a bit, but eventually we got separated (but only after finding out which floor and office she's in in my building, though it might be a bit weird to approach her there), and I only spoke to her once or twice for the rest of the night.

After the meal, and after getting to the bowling venue, I introduced myself to the final Chinese girl (by this stage I'd spoken to everyone female in the group and quite a few of the guys as well), I'll call her Yin. She turned out to be pretty cool and we talked about quite a lot of topics, she has only been here for a few months and I asked her a fair bit about life in China and vice versa. I gained a bit of compliance by having her sign herself into my team in bowling as well. In the breaks while we waited for our turn she seemed to be investing a bit, asking me things like what sports I play and stuff like that, we were sitting pretty closely and I had a bit of touch going, (actually I started this immediately upon getting introduced, guiding her off the staircase into the venue and so on). So this looked pretty promising.

I was just getting ready to number close her when she turned to another Chinese guy (who is a good guy) while I was having my turn and started a conversation with him, I realized I had better move a bit faster or he might end up with the goods, bided my time a little and after we'd both had another turn I closed with a yes ladder "you said you like bar and club right?" "what do you mean" "I mean you said that in China you used to go out a bit?" "yes" "and in Australia you need more people to hang out with right?" "yes" "so how about we exchange numbers and go out one night together, you and I?" she thought about this for a moment, smiled and said "okay"... so we exchanged numbers and a text and continued normal conversation for a bit. I also had her drink some of my drink of soda water and she seemed to be down.

As it was winding down we were talking about entertainment stuff and I asked if she has tried darts, proposing that when this finishes we should go and have a game of electronic darts together... I think some misunderstanding may have crept in here, her English is excellent but some things she needed clarification on here and there... after the game finished there was a fair bit of milling around, taking photos, getting shoes etc and I said to her, "darts?", I thought she agreed and I tried to set a discretion frame by saying "if we get separated while saying goodbye to everyone I'll just meet you there OK?" (it was next door), I'm not quite sure of her response but at the time I took it to mean we would just say goodbye and go there together. Anyway so after getting shoes we were still standing around, and so I said well let's go, the difficult thing was that the other Chinese guy was sorta hanging around, and I don't think she knew how to handle this situation, so I just took her hand and led her out, trouble was the Chinese guy was kinda following us, my problem was that if we fucked around then he would join us and we'd become a group and she'd invite him for darts and I couldn't isolate, so I wanted to fuck off out of there.

Anyway so we go into the darts venue, she was trying to tell me something on the way out of the other place and I had her repeat it a few times but it was kinda loud so I couldn't hear very well, anyway in the darts venue she was saying something like "oh did you mean now?" and I said yeah, I think she may have ducked out to tell the Chinese guy she was playing darts with me... anyway, she came back by herself so that was OK but the vibe seemed a bit different, she was saying stuff like she had to get back to the university and so on, asking things like how much did the darts cost and how long would it take and what was the general plan, I first said well it's still pretty early, we can make it up as we go along... ended up saying we could go back to the uni after darts... this wasn't too relaxing and didn't really have a good insta-date vibe but I suppose it was an insta-date of sorts.

Anyway I had her stay for one game which took a while, tried to get her to buy a beer for us to share but she seemed to be saying she'd left her purse back at the uni, hmm... went to try to get a beer anyway but had not enough cash, and card minimum was $30, so there was no real chance of getting any relaxant into her system... hmm I did my best anyway. The game was really fun and there's no doubt we were both enjoying ourselves.

We then walked back to the uni which took a pretty long time and I deep dived her quite a lot on the way, trying to get to the bottom of why she'd chosen this course etc... she said that she loved computers in high school but didn't understand how they worked, only how to use them and this is why she'd ended up in this area... expanding on this theme a bit and it's probably the closest I've come to a proper deep dive, a lot of my deep dives are shallower than I'd like. Trying to go deeper I said well every time you get in a car it's the same thing, you know how to drive it but not how it works... why computers instead of car mechanics for instance? Didn't get a satisfactory answer on this (I'm not sure if she understood the question properly) but ended up teasing her a bit, she had got good at bowling and darts and if I gave her a spanner she could become a car mechanic, why not :)

Sometime during this walk I proposed a further hangout back at her place, we could get a couple of cans of beer and chill for a bit there, she said no on account of her roommate... I agreed and tried to set further discretion frames in saying I prefer to do things discreetly and privately etc (she must have realized I was talking about us being alone together)... I then asked if she was hungry thinking maybe I could pull her back to my place to make some food but nogo, she was still full from the meal we'd had before bowling... so I just qualified her on having eaten the whole thing when a lot of other plates were barely touched... we went up to her floor, stopped at my floor but I didn't get out (perhaps should have ended things on my terms at that point)...

On the way between floors I said something like let's go together to get your purse or your bag or whatever it is and then we can go get my stuff from my office... she didn't seem down so I asked what her plans were, maybe she was talking about her officemates or something so I said okay, sure, if you're busy I'll say goodbye now (sounds a bit chasey / not closing out on my terms in retrospect), instructed her "come here" a few times but she didn't comply, however since she's only been in Australia for a month or two and only really hung out with Chinese I didn't think she understood I was going to kiss her goodbye, so I verbalized it and then went in for the kiss and she seemed okay with it. But as I left she looked a little confused about things overall. I'm not sure how I could have played this one better. Hmm.

Although I've been working on my sexual eye contact I didn't really get a chance to use it since we were constantly on the move all night. I used touch but probably fell into the trap of using too much, she early on did invest with a bit of touch but I felt her investment was diminishing throughout the course of the night, maybe I wasn't mysterious enough or came across too chasey / needy... hmm. Getting women to invest is a real problem area for me and its the thing that Smith has been helping me with, I need to use cold reads more and ask a lot less questions, since I often seem to be driving the interaction as here. Also, although it was a fun hangout and she shared a fair bit about herself, I had difficulty turning things sexual, I guess I should definitely have done this more aggressively, even though it was social circle.

Oh well. Another useful experience, but similar sticking points to what I've been struggling with lately.

Edit: I now realize when she doubled back to square things with the Chinese dude he probably said he would wait for her at the office (he is probably the officemate she referred to at the end), which would have given her a time limit, put a huge dampener on her vibe and activated her anti slut defense. What a major cockblock. Honestly he heard a few fragments of our conversation (although I was being pretty discreet) and should have realized I was gaming her and to get the fuck out of the way, instead acted like a white knight / defender of the culture & vagina. At least that's my take.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:06 am

Just a PS to say this would have been easier to handle if I had had my own city pad, my logistics suck. I managed to pull a girl home once from the city (LMR, gave up too early and accepted her frame), have all but given up hope of repeating the same trick. Have been househunting for quite a while. Last night was poring over the listings for the millionth time that week and decided my expectations were unrealistic and I had better lower my standards.

So I started getting pretty keen to pull the trigger on this 2-bedroom 2-bathroom in an ultra-modern 40 level tower that I've had my eye on. It's not my 100% preferred location (which is the main street and so tightly held it's ridiculous), but it's only one block away and has the advbantage of being half a block from a very upscale shopping mall that I want to pull chicks from (both locations are either side of a major underground train station and have trams, so transport isn't an issue).

So I called the real estate agent in the morning and inspection is difficult because it's tenanted and the price is too high (this may be why it's been advertised for a while). But I think maybe we can do business. She is gonna call me back. C'mon let's fix these fuckin logistics!!
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:01 pm

A cool morning. Went to the appliance barn to get a garment steamer since my best shirts are getting wrecked from constant ironing. Resolved to pay everyone a compliment since I did not do this last time while buying a keyboard and let a cute Asian with pearl earrings get away. Well actually chickened out or did not see good compliments in the moment but spent some time chatting with chick in ironing dept, Firstly about ironing and lifestyle issues, then as it turned out we were both crouched on the ground checking some boxes for water capacity etc and it felt kinda intimate so I started asking her more personal questions/started to cold read, when we were both laughing together I asked if she's single, well she isn't so I said I had better not interfere but otherwise I would definitely have asked her out for a not - coffee (a joke because neither of us drink coffee yet she sells coffee machines). She was happy. Then went back to chatting/deep diving and concluded the sale. I bet she will get a bonus cos I bought 5 yr warranty as I always do. She was touching me a fair bit as we went over to the register, wonder if I could have made sth from this interaction? Also did a cold read on the register chick by asking if she was Indian and then saying at first I had thought her accent might be American, yup well she opened right up explaining she had lived with relatives in America and Canada for a time growing up, etc. Overall good start to the day.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:21 am

Usual Tuesday afternoon/evening daygame. A ton of approaches, only got to the hook once. She was sharing etc, went for a rather awkward and hesitant yes ladder, she prevaricated a bit and eventually offered her number but I declined saying I didn't think it was worth it if she was just being polite. Have not managed to capture a teasing or playful vibe really so either I'm in a more serious mood or I need to change it up. Hmm. Having a meal while I rethink.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:19 pm

Zoo girl is back on reception... greeted each other warmly. She told me about her recent assignments. She doesn't organize the sleepovers in the school holidays anymore, a shame cos I had some sexual frames ready... but I think she was happy I remember stuff about her. She complimented my appearance, hmm! But may have felt obliged since I did same last time. Think I noticed rings on her left hand, maybe bad sign? A colleague was in earshot and someone came up behind so I had to eject, I am really frustrated at my inability to move things forward. I think maybe instead of trying to number close, next time I might just ask if she had a break in next couple hours & could meet us & tell us more about her latest work (a video apparently)... might be lower pressure? Hmm.

On Monday a cute teacher at the school initiated eye contact and greeted me in assembly, I know her slightly and I think she a be keen. I have hatched a plan to go visit her in her classroom and say I haven't had the chance to thank her properly for her engaging my son at orientation and persuading him to join the class. I want to get a chase frame in, along the lines that son wasn't the only person she charmed that day, and deep dive her about working with kids etc. Can't decide whether to do it this arvo (but she has 16.00 staff meeting) or next Wednesday morning. I'd prefer to be fresh but OTOH if I move fast it will look like I've just remembered b/c she engaged me at assembly... hmm.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:29 pm

Insta date yay!
I have 1.5hrs or so in the middle of the day, between pickups/dropoffs, on a Wednesday and I've been using this for a bit of daygame near my home, I haven't had good results there but I feel it's worth persisting because the logistics are sweet. Some things I've been wanting to focus on lately:
1. Picking women who are already interested in me/receptive to an approach
2. Maintaining my fundamentals during the open (posture, voice, eye contact)
3. Conversation: sexualizing it, banter, sexual tension w/ pauses, eye contact

Anyway so on point 1 I hit the jackpot today, I did what I often do, which is when there's some congestion etc (in this case in the supermarket aisle) I meet someone's eyes and just smile a slow sexual smile... in this case she turned out to be from Saudi Arabia and wearing what I think is a hijab, and a robe, so pretty traditional dress, but anyway she was receptive to the sexual smile and so I marked her down for an open. Continued on to the checkout and what do you know, she ended up behind me (an IOI?) so I opened by saying I couldn't help noticing her, she is cute even though I cannot see very well (teasingly indicating her hijab), turns out she's a student, etc, etc, we get to the front of the line and I say we can talk more after we finish our shopping. I finished first so I went to sit on a seat outside, luckily I had a salad to eat, so I didn't look lurky.

When she eventually came out I was kinda half expecting her to look down and scurry off avoiding me (because I've had a really hard time with cold approach lately) but no, I addressed her by name and waved her over and instructed her to come and have a coffee with me, she doesn't drink coffee so I went with plan B (very useful) which is the chocolate shop right nearby... she actually insisted on paying for my chocolate, even though I did not understand her at first (I was so bowled over by this). I instructed her to sit in the back of the shop where it is quieter. I failed to lead, but when we arrived at the table, she asked me where she should sit, haha (Saudi Arabian women must be pretty submissive) so this went OK. I went into a cold read, first I tried Iranian but then Saudi Arabian and she was pretty impressed. She's from Mecca. This gave some good material, we chatted about this and Islam (luckily I am knowledgeable on this) and other things.

Although I didn't build much sexual tension, this was because the conversation flowed very easily, and more importantly the sexual framing was nicely integrated and didn't come off as forced. I asked her about growing up in Saudi Arabia, about boyfriends and such things, and just teased her relentlessly about it all, she said she doesn't have any boyfriends and I pretended to mishear, she doesn't have many boyfriends, only 3 or 4? A lot of jokes about how when she reveals a bit more skin her number of boyfriends will go up and so forth, and how she's not allowed to wear short skirts because her knees are incredibly sexy and so on, but I can only speculate as to what goes on behind closed doors, etc. Number closed on a high point, she agrees to hang out on the weekend. I had to go pick up the kids so I walked her halfway towards the bus stop, I had a fair bit of touch going and I said, so you're allowed to kiss right and she laughed saying no, no! I teased her a bit more about this about how she's almost Australian now, and we say goodbye with a kiss, etc, she still didn't seem down, so I said we could continue her training next time, and farewelled her.

Take home
Go for women who are already into you. Even if you aren't totally into them initially (she grew on me throughout the interaction, she's pretty chilled even though she's been indoctrinated into a whole lot of conservative bullshit). Collect positive reference experiences in order to stay encouraged and focused.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:08 am

So today's events highlighted to me that I have another problem which I need to address.

In the morning after the gym I checked GC and some old post had had new activity and I read this post and it recommended the book "No more Mr Nice Guy"... I am far too much of a nice guy and have been really struggling to project more of an assholeish vibe, although some have said to me not to do this if it's not who I am... struggling to work out who I in fact am, I read about 60% of this book before work, it was absolutely fascinating and certainly described me pretty well (although I'm not as bad as some of the saddest cases in the book, since I've been around the block a few times, and I usually have pretty good instincts when something is wrong, even if I don't act on them).

After uni I had my voice lesson at 17.00, well the teacher, who I'll call Melody, rang me around midday to ask if I wanted to go out to the pub afterwards which is something we'd discussed previously, I haven't been out with her for a while, but it's something we do when not otherwise occupied on a Thursday. I was glad she suggested it because I have been wanting to seal the deal with her for a while, but didn't want to come across as chasey. Melody is 50ish and TBH I don't find her that attractive (she looks better in clothes) although she has cute pictures of herself from her acting career some decades back... but I want to keep her sweet because the voice classes are helping.

Anyway so the class went okay, although it frustrates me a bit that she doesn't run the classes very efficiently, she's a bit indecisive and leaves the agenda to me a lot. So I spend a fair bit of time leafing through her voiceover material, plays, novels, poetry etc and picking things I want to do. So I'm not using my voice all the time, and the class is expensive (I think if I was giving her great sex I would insist on a discount / free class however)... She also seems to encourage me to flit around a lot, whereas I want to get each thing perfect before moving on (Gettysburg address, Julius Caesar act 3 scene 1, etc). Anyway, it is what it is, and it helps, so I'm still doing it.

Afterwards we went to the pub and this was good too, TBH we are more like friends and so we talk about a lot of stuff, I haven't maintained all that much mystery with her and this is hurting me as will be seen, anyway it is actually good to have a friend because I have ditched most of my friends lately, except uni friends. We talked a lot about travel (her trip and a trip that I'm considering, etc)... and life generally... and her frozen shoulder is always a big topic (boring but important to her)... blah blah blah. I was mentioning my weight loss goals when she said I didn't have a pot (actually I do although it's small and cute) and I said she'd have a chance to check more carefully later. She replied that she is on her period, she just wants to tell me that. Bleh, I don't really believe her, that's what a lot of women say when they want intimacy without sex.

We get back to the house and she does her usual thing of checking messages while I wait for her in the lounge. Bleh again. She pours me a wine. I tell her I've had a headache since the afternoon and have her massage my temples. I have to give her fairly precise instructions but TBH it doesn't really feel that good, I'm feeling a little frustrated but I persevere by saying well if you had a headache, how would you want to be massaged... and surprisingly enough this improves things a lot and she starts doing stuff I wouldn't have thought of and it feels good. I have her caress my chest and pinch my nipples and some other stuff which also doesn't feel good. But she also starts saying things like "is this how you would normally behave on a date?" and mentioning that I'm very demanding and this is unusual and so on, this seems strange. I just make some obvious response about how I would like to have my needs met, and she obviously hasn't met many guys who know what they want and how to get it.

So I know I have to handle things very carefully because she's pretty inexperienced and doesn't know how to touch me, she becomes very tense when I kiss her, and otherwise behaves like a bit of a dead fish which I put down partly to her frozen shoulder. What I want to do is build some comfort and have her relax, so I ask her what is the most relaxing thing she can think of, and times when she's felt totally transported and out of her body what causes her to get on that plane... she replies that she has some marijuana cookies if that's what I mean. Haha no it isn't, so I press her a bit more and eventually she says that a massage would relax her. Fine, we move into the bedroom, she doesn't believe I can massage her but I know I'm pretty good at it (though unfortunately we establish that she has no massage oil handy).

So after a long time she does actually begin to loosen up (amazing) and I go to kiss her and generally start getting intimate, well this is a long process. I'm far from turned on at this point. I'm using a new strategy for dealing with any ED related issues which is I'm not going for the pussy straightaway. I might tease her a little but basically I feel that if she wants to be fucked she is going to have to earn it by getting me turned on, and I won't reward her until she makes an effort. After what seems like an age she becomes a bit more responsive to my kisses and starts to caress my chest in a way that doesn't actually feel bad but feels good. So I start taking deeper breaths and sighing a bit and generally relaxing and enjoying it, I'm starting to get hard and I'm moaning a bit when she comes out with some unflattering comment about my heavy breathing, I feel a bit offended but I just calmly tell her that that's how she knows to keep doing what she's doing (as if it wasn't obvious this is a communication strategy).

Anyway then she changes position to something that just doesn't work and I stop breathing / moaning for a while hoping she'll get the hint, eventually I have to tell her to return to what she was doing and to play with my body more, she says "you mean your penis?" and I say "well that depends, just play with my body generally" and she kind of half heartedly complies but the moment is gone. Then she drops this bomb on me: Blah blah I don't want you to get an erection because then I'll have to deal with it and you'll want to an orgasm etc (she uses very clinical language which I find to be a total turnoff). I say it would be better not to assume stuff. We bat this around a bit and she I suppose wants to know if I'm having a good time, I say something like "yes, I am enjoying the intimacy, there's about a billion nerve endings in the body though and if they were being stimulated at the same time it would be way more optimal", hmm, we make out a bit longer and eventually she gets up and puts her clothes back on. She has also at some point gone into more of her crap about how demanding I am, I laugh and say "every time I arrive for the lesson I ask you politely for a glass of water when normally I would just walk in and say get me a glass of water babe... since you're my teacher I'm dialling it right down, and you still think I'm demanding, go figure?".

I don't really care if I fuck her or not, because she's not that attractive. But I feel she's upset I'm making her work for it and not fitting into her normal frame. I also feel a bit used, because I have given up my evening for her at her request, and this is the kind of treatment I get in return, basically just criticism and non-compliance.

I now lie in bed for a bit looking up her frozen shoulder issue which she wants me to do, all the information is in wikipedia but apparently she hasn't looked it up. Anyway I learn a fair bit and it's interesting so I don't really mind doing it, I just feel like a pussy for offering (earlier) and complying (now) when I'm getting treated in this shit way.

Then I get up to go, I'm about to put my shoes on when she asks me to help put the doona cover on the doona... this musta been my breaking point because I give her a quizzical look, she backs off saying "you don't want to do it?" and I say "well, not really..." and she says "fine, I'll get the cleaning lady to do it tomorrow". Then she says, "Give me a hand making the bed then"?! I retort, "Do I look like a chambermaid?" finally getting a bit of backbone. She gets all offended and starts talking about her frozen shoulder and how I don't help women etc... I say "that's ridiculous, when you were unloading the car before starting the lesson you asked me to hold your dry cleaning and I did it, totally against my better judgement... then when we got back from the restaurant you asked me to bring in one of the bins, and again I did it, because it wasn't too much effort, even if this was also totally against my better judgement... and now you're offended I won't do your housework for you as well? Come on get real..."

By this stage I'm like "whatever"... I take one side of the sheet and help her stretch it across the bed... I think we're done when she goes into some crap about "haven't you ever helped a woman with the housework" and I'm like "err, I'm used to doing the whole thing myself, that's why I got divorced..." anyway so I end up tucking in the sheet, with hospital corners, while explaining that I run my own household and there's no fuckin reason why I would feel compelled to do someone else's housework as well as my own... but I still do it because I feel that refusing would be childish, having made my point. This was a mistake, I should have stuck to my frame and refused to do it.

So anyway I return to getting my shoes on and she says "you're going?" in a tone like I'm acting childish, WTF? I didn't start any argument and I've basically complied with her requests even if I honestly told her what I thought of them... Anyway I don't want to leave things on this note so I kiss her goodbye and build a little more comfort, she then says I have obviously had a bad experience with women / my wife and it has fucked me up or some crap, I say "whaaat?? I was put on this planet to set myself goals and achieve them, and to do what I need to do to enjoy my life, why would I want to spend it running around making other people's problems my own? You obviously haven't met many men who are just into living their own life"... whatever. I go.

I think it's pretty clear from this story (which I'm almost embarrassed to write up) that I have a real nice guy problem and that women are taking advantage of me. I have actually cleaned up my act and have been refusing compliance more, the reason I got into the above fucked situation was basically a matter of congruence, it's been bothering me ever since she asked me to look at her phone, her computer, her answering machine, etc... that I need to put a stop to this, but I didn't want to seem reactive, it's much better to just set the frame from the beginning instead of allowing expectations to develop (this is partly why I've ditched a lot of my social circle in fact).

Fuck, well, tomorrow is another day, just need to persevere with improving myself. The journal helps me to learn from my experiences though. All this has happened before but hopefully putting it in journal form will inspire me to do something about it. I did check the "no more mr nice guy" website to see if there was a support group in my area, there isn't. They have forums, but they're full of pathetic needy men who have failed at their first relationship, blame themselves, and plan to repeat it all again. :(
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:53 pm

Update, well lately I have been having the problem that not only are the multiple sticking points in my game but my work and personal life has been slipping a bit too, since I've been putting all my effort and spare time into going out 2~3 times a week and every weekend to approach a ton of girls. For instance I hadn't done any gardening for some months and pre GC this was one of my major hobbies. I decided to take a break from approaching for a week or so and just concentrate on getting my shit together. Like going in to work on the weekend and doing a ton of housework and blah blah.

But since I have a pretty good routine and I like hanging out in places like Starbucks and walking the streets of the city I decided to continue doing those things a bit, but just solely focusing on my posture, walk, and eye contact. Because eye contact is really difficult to do and it's a bit bound up with approach anxiety, like if I'm not really in state for approaching then I'm constantly checking girls out and thinking "oh she's not hot enough to approach" or whatever. So if I'm not approaching it's much easier to keep the eye contact sorted. What I'm trying to do is look above everyone else, not check girls out except in my peripheral vision, and not make any unintentional eye contact with anyone. Unintentional eye contact flusters me and I have trouble holding it and/or breaking it correctly. Whereas intentional eye contact I'm fine with.

To practice eye contact discipline I make sure I have a focal point at all times, which might be a street sign, a traffic light, a tree branch, the roof line of a nearby building, whatever. Then I make sure I look at that. As I turn a corner, or if I have to look around to make sure a tram isn't coming, or whatever, I think about my eye contact strategy and what my new focal point will be.

I also visualize laser beams shooting out of my eyes and burning anyone they touch. And if I make an eye contact error such as checking out a girl then I visualize her getting burnt and blistered and cut in half and falling on the ground in a smoking heap... I feel really sorry when I injure someone like this. Although I have a tendency to chop guys' heads off if they are tall, but that's OK, they're only guys, heh heh heh. I find that my eye contact discipline slips when tired.

The other thing I'm doing is checking my peripheral vision carefully for IOIs. Last night there was an interesting one, I saw a short but attractive Asian girl in a black and white outfit, miniskirt and stockings (in my peripheral vision) and sped up a little to try and catch up to her, I came alongside her at a pedestrian light that was red. Although she was a good 2 metres away she turned in my direction multiple times to look at me. Hmm! I should have approached but was unaccountably shy. So then she crossed the road against the red and I thought she was going to the tram stop in the middle of the road. But as she got there she turned and looked at me again. She waited a bit and continued crossing against the red. Shortly afterwards I crossed and I nearly caught up to her again, I was gonna say something like "hey I notice you are in a bit of a hurry, what's up?" anyway after we walk another block or two and she's crossed another smaller street on the red (and I do the same, as I usually would), she turns around, sees me, does a kind of double take and looks a bit fearful, fuckin' hell, no point approaching now I think... (I haven't given any indication I'm aware of her).

Alek's article published today is really on the money, after you see them you have to approach immediately or it will look creepy. I did one other approach yesterday just because she looked really hot (even though I wasn't in state and wasn't officially doing approaches) but I walked alongside her for about 20~30sec before saying hi there, and I think this was too long, anyway she blew me off though not in an unkind way (didn't give her name, apologized and said she was meeting someone and hurried off). Anyway the main point of the article I had already figured out for myself, doing a ton of approaches just isn't that productive, you need to approach women who are already into you, and this is something I've been trying to get my head around (hence the focus on eye contact discipline).

I also did a little game in the appliance store, firstly chatted to the cashier who I've mentioned earlier (the Indian one with the U.S. accent) and she hooked me up with another cutie who turns out to be half Vietnamese and half Chinese who helped me with an ultrabook that was on clearance... we spent about an hour haggling over the price and organizing accessories etc, and in this time I deep dived her quite a bit and got some nice sexual flirting in... said something like "I couldn't help chuckling a bit when I saw you have SALE written on you" and she says "yeah, we HAVE to wear this" and I say "oh right, definitely no taking it off then?" and some other lines like that. I also get in some other teasing which in retrospect might have been a bit strong although I suppose it's important to disrespect them a little bit instead of kissing butt.

Unfortunately failed to number close on a high point although this was not really my fault since I was still in flirtation mode when her boss and some other colleagues became involved (I negotiated pretty hard with the boss and feigned disinterest and got even further discounts than what my Chinese/Vietnamese friend could arrange which was already good, this probably gave me some status in her eyes), anyway we are walking over to the register together when I say "I would have liked to talk with you some more, but then the others got involved... if you would like to catch up with me for a coffee sometime, give me your number"... in retrospect this sounded a bit chasey, weak and vague, I wanted to use a yes ladder but the clock was ticking and I had to say something... she doesn't say yes or no and we get to the register and I have to switch to discreet mode, but as it turns out I have to come back the next day and she promises she will be there. Hmm. We finish with a handshake and normally I would refuse a handshake (too friendly) but in the presence of the register chick I have to be discreet. I should have held her hand for longer and winked or something.

The next day I'm feeling a bit nervous and over invested (fuck) and after finishing hundreds of jobs it's afternoon and I can't put it off any longer so I put my good clothes on and head down there. Register chick isn't there so I can't use her to get in state. I browse a bit in the store, eventually go over and there's my target but she's surrounded by other staff. Hmm. By this point I'm pretty much totally in my head, and fail to recapture the vibes. Also she offered value by asking about my son and I failed to reward her for this, mainly because I'd turned my hearing aids right down to reduce feedback and couldn't hear her properly... fuckin' hell so frustrating. Anyway so I finish the transaction, I don't bother trying to game her anymore because I'm not in the mood and she isn't doing anything to make it easier for me. Fuck it. We finish with a handshake again and I stupidly comply. (In retrospect I should have said... in the presence of 2nd register chick... "no kiss?" get some laughter going "you weren't just flirting with me to make the sale were you?" and gotten another chuckle and said "I'll see you later" or something... but I wasn't fast enough).

About the hearing aids and the feedback issue it's been particularly bad lately, but it's a problem I've struggled with all my life and it's so fucking pathetic and primitive the state of the technology and that it basically hasn't advanced at all in since I was a kid... or has it? Since GC I've been trying to take more responsibility for making myself attractive and for finding outside-the-box solutions to these kind of issues (actually switching to sexual smiles has helped the feedback a fair bit but unfortunately I often make a joke and cannot help laughing and this makes my hearing aids come out and makes a noticeable whistling sound that totally disrupts the flow of the interaction especially as I'm constantly reaching up to my ears to push the hearing aids back in again and so on)... So what I'm trying at the moment is, I've ordered some innovative memory-foam earmoulds (generic type, they aren't made especially for a particular person) from a 3M spinoff company that will arrive Wednesday... if that doesn't work I have another plan which is a bit more radical (a kind of 1950s style aid with some Bluetooth earbuds thrown in), but it's not something I can do in 5 minutes. This feedback problem is a massive sticking point and makes me feel like a total fuckwit. It's definitely screwing up my approaches, once a person knows me they're a lot more forgiving, but during the approach if anything seems off then it will kill attraction straightaway.

I'm also reading a book about dealing with toxic shame, this is because "No more Mr Nice Guy" has pinpointed toxic shame as a potential reason why I am having nice guy issues and guess what, I think it really is the core of the issue... basically in my interactions with girls I've often felt I'm not good enough for them, for instance I settled on a wife who my brain knew was way beneath me, but my emotions felt she was the best I could get... and since then I had a great girlfriend who really loved me and was fabulous in bed as well but I somehow sabotaged it by feeling I was too old for her and I was lucky to get her and towards the end basically trying to buy her companionship by being a provider and this fucked me up... all of this I think is shame based. Also the fact I've always been shy around girls and had trouble expressing my sex drive, again shame based... Well I won't go into details but I guess my father is shame based too and he has been violent etc... so I think I'm gonna try to do something to resolve my shame issues, at the moment I'm simply reading everything I can get my hands on, and I'm also trying to uncover repressed memories from my childhood/adolescence. It's funny how reading these books and learning about shaming behaviours constantly reminds me of shaming things that have happened to me, whereas when I look back over my childhood, I conveniently ignore all these incidents, and think of it as a happy childhood where I was loved and nurtured and so forth... this exactly fits what is in the literature. Another thing is that I'm a total perfectionist, which is always fucking up my uni work, and this is also likely to be shame based from what I'm reading. Anyway I don't intend to turn into a whinger but I do intend to see if there are subconscious reasons I'm sabotaging myself and to get to the bottom of them.

I'm at uni now, I'll go to Starbucks later and do a little more uni work on my new Ultrabook while checking for IOIs and gaming the Brazilian chick who works there :)
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby Dern » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:30 am

Yeah, I've also been wanting to tone down on my approaches recently. Only be thinking of how I carry myself. I realize I'm an approach machine, so there's no need to waste effort on girls who likely aren't going to be interested. Just gotta improve fundamentals and look for them IOIs. I like the idea of the eye contact exercise. I like always want to be looking straight ahead, and only giving eye contact to people who I notice from my peripherals looking at me first.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:16 am

Exactly Dern. We're on the same page.

Girlwise not too much to report, I did a few approaches here and there.

Leaving uni the other night I saw a white jacket on a cute Asian chick turn the corner and start walking beside me, well I choked a bit (there were lots of other people around too) so just walked a bit faster, however she walked behind me for quite a while and pulled up next to me again at the pedestrian lights so I opened, "Hi there... (no response) can you hear me? I couldn't help noticing we are walking the same way, I'm Ray" and ended up having quite a nice conversation, I'm practicing not being the driver and just doing a cold read here and there to keep things moving and this worked OK. I think I only asked her one or two questions and those were in the vein of "you look like ..." "i'm actually ..." "oh, really? so you ...?" She works as an immigration agent and deals with students. She was carrying her shopping and we agreed we were both going home. I got some touch going by pulling her in to me by the elbow and guiding her as we passed an al fresco restaurant where there was less pavement. As we got to the corner of her street (she had earlier blurted out which street whilst I was adding a pause) I said "do you have to go home right now? why don't we go and get a coffee or something and keep talking?" and she demurred so I said "okay, it was nice talking to you (big smile)" and left her.

What I could have done better: Open immediately... this would have given me more time to get to the hook. Move the interaction forward at a high point rather than when we are about to leave each other, this looks a bit lame. Anyway considering I wasn't gonna do an open at al, and there were no IOIs, this was fun, and really improved my mood.

Starbucks the next morning... two Vietnamese women approached me from a nearby table and asked me to take their photo on their iPhone which I did. One was significantly older than the other so I tried a cold read "mother and daughter" well they aren't, it was her older sister... oops... anyway she opened up and told a lot about herself while the younger sister didn't say much, older one is a teacher and has been doing a 4 month certificate here and about to return to Vietnam, younger one is training as a pastry chef... actually I would have liked to deep dive the younger one more since pastry cheffing is kind of a hobby of mine but oh well... older one was 40 so I lied and said my age was 40 as well and she can call me "older brother" (anh)... ordinarily I'm more honest but this just slipped out. Since I'm looking for something casual I tried to number close the older one but I think younger sister's presence was a cockblock, they made various excuses (doesn't give out her number, has no phone, has kids, etc) so I said "okay, I don't mind, it was nice talking to you" and farewelled them at the front of the store. Again, this really lifted my mood.

Yesterday (a public holiday) very festive atmosphere, everyone hanging with their friends in the city etc... I opened a cute Vietnamese girl in the line at Starbucks, she came over around the time I got in line and kinda stood there awkwardly until I opened her with a "hi there, what are you up to today?" and my name... when she told me her name and it was Vietnamese I spoke some VN to her and she was kinda surprised... chatted a little more but she wasn't really hooked, eventually I grabbed her elbow and guided her into the spot in front of me in the queue, this was not ideal because now she has her back to me and isn't talking, also it makes me look like a bit of a white knight... after a few moments I touched her shoulder with the back of my hand to get her to turn around again and asked her how old she is, in Vietnamese... she was a little confused at first since my accent isn't too good, also she's only 19. Anyway the interaction didn't really improve from there, so I didn't approach her again after ordering (also she'd told me she's with a friend and I saw them together while I worked at my ultrabook for the next half hour, practicing eye contact discipline with only a few slipups). Anyway she was slightly on the plumper side and dressed in a tight white lacy top and black vinyl skirt, looked incredibly fuckable, so I was happy that I had the balls to approach...

So anyway although I only did a few approaches in the last week they were fun and more importantly my dissertation is going fucking well, I've nearly finished another chapter, I have been working late at the office every day (including weekends and public holidays) and when not doing that, chilling at home by myself and trying to recover my former liking for solitude, also doing the housework and yardwork and so on which I used to enjoy. But mainly, reading the following book: Healing the Shame that Binds You: Recovery Classics by John Bradshaw... this is a fucking good book and everyone should read it. It's useful as a deeper look at the phenomena described in the "No more Mr Nice Guy" book that's been discussed in forums and the recent article. I am going to try the exercises in the book, stay tuned.

And now the best news I kept for last... the new hearing aid gear arrived from the United States by Fedex and guess what, this shit works!!!! It's maybe a little too early to get excited but the feedback seems to be definitively stopped with these new memory-foam earmoulds, and they're also quite a mature product, they are disposable (I bought enough for about 10 weeks) and they have a locking system that attaches to the hearing aids with no fuss, I had considered making something myself out of some memory foam earplugs and some tubing, but it's much better that someone else has done the R&D and fine-tuned everything.

I cannot express how amazingly thrilled I am about this hearing aid thing, and it is all down to GC because otherwise I would have still been in victim mentality (I'll never get good with girls... it's not my fault... I'm deaf... blah blah blah), instead I've just been proactively working through all the issues that cause me not to get girls and finding solutions. Since doing my first approaches a few months back I've been scouring the Internet every few weeks for a solution to this issue and had all but given up hope when I just stumbled on this website and ta da! It just shows you should never give up.

The problem has basically been that every time I smile (and other facial expressions too) a loud piercing whistle comes from both ears and I have to reach up and adjust my hearing aids and if I'm laughing I have to hold the earmoulds in my ears until I stop laughing... and I've unconsciously adopted facial expressions that minimize this, for instance whenever I see photos of myself I see the edges of my mouth turning down a bit and a tightness there which comes from trying not to move my ears... it will take time to unlearn all this, but I'm hoping my interactions with girls will be much more natural now, and that my facial expressions will be warmer and more welcoming.

Have to go pick up my kids now. Things are progressing. Hope you enjoyed the read.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:16 am

Have just had some great conversations at school with the new aids, approached a cute Asian prep mum and made friends with her, etc... feeling on top of the fucking world, the good weather is also great.

Couple of things I forgot in above update (1) I called my dentist to find out what is going on with my bleaching trays and the super duper bleaching solution he is supposed to be ordering from the US for me, apparently it comes in refrigerated transit, he will call me back... (2) this morning on the scale I was 200g away from breaking 90kg barrier at long last... so excited.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:11 am

Well today we had a birthday in the office and we usually send an email around and put together a party, I've mentioned this in another post where some dude asked about leadership in social circle. Usually I bring the cake which is a fun thing to do since I enjoy baking and decorating... trouble is I've been agonizing over this kind of stuff lately since I'm trying to stamp out situations where I spend a lot of time and effort on other people without demanding an equivalent or greater value exchange upfront. On the other hand the chick who organized the party this time did explicitly ask me to make it and so I wasn't just volunteering my time and effort. Also she organized a terrific surprise for me last time with a cake, a gift, a card etc in recognition of my efforts... so decided to go ahead. TBH it took a long time and I couldn't really afford that time but the result was pretty awesome despite my taking a lot of shortcuts in the decorating phase.

Well the chick I've had trouble with (hit on her, wasn't calibrated, now we largely ignore each other except I still choke up a lot when I do see her and say stupid shit), actually approached me at my desk about it and I had a relatively normal conversation with her (only choked a bit) and so that was a plus I guess (she had brought the candles and some of the other stuff). Another good thing that happened was I was able to invite a lot of the new students from the office to the party and thereby provide social value, I didn't feel that I had to ask permission since I was providing a good part of the party.

Yeah OK so it went well although my posture and voice fundamentals were off, I guess I felt a bit intimidated by this girl's presence (fuck, and there's no reason for this since I wasn't even attracted to her initially and purely approached her since she seemed to react well to my new fashion and posture etc)... anyway so as I was leaving the uni I was still feeling a bit all over the place and really regret not having made one approach, I came up behind a short but hot Asian chick (never saw her face though) and I wanted to say "Hi there... I couldn't help noticing your cute arse in those tight pants, so I wanted to compliment you and say hi"... since these approaches have been discussed a bit on the boards lately. Well I choked. :(
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:39 am

A kids weekend -- makes gaming difficult. Also felt tired and stressed, a bit irritable. But I was a good dad most of the the time and had arranged a full schedule of playdates, parties etc. The only real thing I wanted to mention in this report is that at my niece's birthday party there were lots of yummy mummies who I didn't know cos my brother lives in the country. I was only practicing conversation and didn't turn things sexual. But I introduced myself to every hot woman and had a conversation of at least some minutes with each, though I cheat a little cos the last two were in the driveway as they were leaving (at different times), I hadn't been able to approach earlier for whatever reason... the best conversation:
hi, I'm Ray (shakes hands)
Hiya, I'm ..., I'm a school friend of (my brother's wife)
Yeah, that's what ... said (hotty #2 who I opened earlier and who has just gone off to toilet or something leaving hotty #1 alone and approachable) ... so you still keep in regular touch?
Yeah, blah blah blah, everyone having kids blah blah
It looks like you're still kid free though... need to find a handsome guy I think
Oh I have one blah blah blah
So do you like to travel?
Oh yeah last year blah blah blah
Yeah so that's what you need to do while kid free
Yeah blah blah
And if you could go anywhere in the world where would you go? (Thanks Chase)
Blah blah... now hotty #2 is back so I include her and ask her same question
Blah blah blah...

Her kid is cute so I fix him up with some toys and start rebuilding a train track with some of the other kids including some of mine... this keeps me occupied for a bit, I am still practicing my conversation with the kids, and looking pretty in-control and adding value... then hotty #2 comes around next to me and engages me... I sit back in my chair and I'm totally locked in whilst she's not remotely, and we chat about travelling with young kids and how it's no biggie whatsoever and we're on the same page about stuff generally, she's cool. Eventually they leave and I grab a hug and a kiss from each first.

I forgot how good it feels to get investment from girls. Awesome. I was really surprised and happy when she came and engaged me. I must have beem doing something right.

Unfortunately my mum was a bit tired from the party and didn't want to look after all my kids while I went to the JP school soxial mixer. So I took the younger kids thinking they could practice a bit of JP with my teacher who they already know. Muscalculation -- it was very loud and crazy busy and packed to the gills with hot young women, many of them Asian, in their best party frocks, if only I was on form and kid free could have pulled for sure... unfortunately I was tired and irritable and confused by the loudness and couldn't comprehend the stupid bingo game as I couldn't hear shit, opened a few girls on my team but basically looked, acted and felt like a total chode. We left a bit early. Food was good though (my diet well and truly broken this w/e, fuck, will explain this in another post, have an important step to take tomorrow wrt. my inner game and comfort eating so I remain optimistic).
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:30 pm

So I finally made an approach to a cute teacher at my son's school who I'll call Helga, we got along well at my son's orientation and we've noticed each other around a bit since then. So this morning I was in assembly and I decided I'm gonna approach at the end of assembly. Well I felt a bit nervous but when it finished I arranged it so I would be walking along a path outside and she would be coming the other way with her class back to her classroom. I don't make eye contact until we're pretty close. This is how it went down
Me: Hey there Helga (I turn around and slot in beside her)
She smiles and greets me. We walk a bit in silence.
Me: You are looking very lovely... I love your scarf!
She smiles a bit more and thanks me. We walk a bit more.
Me: I never got a chance to thank you for engaging (my son's name... who hadn't wanted to participate in the orientation for the first half hour, well she charmed him, and also me)... Obviously you are pretty experienced at this
Her: Oh yeah I've been a teacher for 7 years blah blah
Me: No way! ....
Her: I've done this for this long and then grade 1 and 2 and blah blah
Me: And you're happy with Prep for the time being
Her: Yeah it's blah blah blah... she's sharing
We get to some steps... I'm feeling a bit nervous and losing the thread of what she's saying, so decide to close things out before I make a booboo, I'm also conscious that I don't want her to think I'm being aimless / changing direction for her sake
I put my hand on her arm...
Me: I was just heading back that way but it was great we got a chance to chat
Her: Yeah! ... and thanks so much for saying that... she touches me briefly too
Me: Okay bye I'll talk to you again soon... smile

Walk away kicking myself for having ejected too early, I could have walked with her to her classroom and number closed on the way... still I guess I'm practicing a kind of social circle hit/run game since I've been a bit aggressive in the past in social circle and burnt myself, maybe better to build a little comfort before going for the date? Trouble is I probably won't run into her again soon unless I make it happen so I might look a little chasey, shoulda just gone for it while I had the chance. Fuck.

Gotta push those interactions more. Still at least I got out of my head and spoke to her and complimented her and (I think) conveyed intent... hopefully she picked up on it. It was good practice if nothing else.

Edit: I was wearing new tight tan pants in a 34in waist, a white shirt with some businessy pinstripes, cream v-neck in a soft wool, both in an M and my dark tan boots. I looked good. My posture, walk and voice were on point. Also I was practicing cold reads and not asking questions as is my usual habit these days. It is starting to get easier. Also garnered a lot of compliments for my outfit last night which was simply jeans, muscle t-shirt and blazer, this outfit was literally just something I threw on as I was leaving the house, and I said so. Sprezzatura rules...
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:31 am

Okay so here is where it gets interesting... I had a few more interactions today but none really worth reporting, what I'm writing about now is inner game.

So to recap I read "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover... and two things jumped out at me (1) nice guys aren't that nice, passive aggressive is a better description... check (2) the root cause of nice guy syndrome is toxic shame... I had never heard of this, but, check. The rest of the book was kinda obvious especially to someone who's read GC and who's been married like he has.

So I researched toxic shame quite thoroughly and the go-to is "Healing the Shame that Binds you" by John Bradshaw. Well having read the book from cover to cover it really resonated with me, most of the things described I've experienced in some form or other. I decided to return to part 2 and follow the steps precisely to treat this thing. The steps were things I particularly didn't/don't want to do, and that's why I committed to following them precisely.

Well the first step is to join a 12 step programme, like Alcholics Anonymous... I was addicted to illegal drugs for 12yrs but I'm not now. I'm not an alcoholic, and nor am I an overeater, although I use both those things to mood-alter (as a relief from the negative self-messages which I'll describe next). But I did find a suitable 12 step group which is called CoDA, Co-Dependents Anonymous. It's specifically about dealing with self-worth problems that manifest themselves in toxic relationships, i.e. all my LTRs to date.

The reason you join the 12 step programme is to crack open the protective shell that the toxic shame hides behind. That is, you feel bad about yourself (that you are not good enough, fundamentally flawed, a bad person and so on) and as a coping strategy you make sure nobody finds out. But by protecting these bad feelings about yourself you're basically nurturing them and letting them grow. So the solution is to open up to a trusted person or group who has walked that path before.

After the 12 step programme the next step in the book is a series of meditations. These are basically self hypnosis (you can record the steps on an audio tape or similar and follow the instructions while meditating), and what they do is tackle the negative self messages which have become unconscious. I literally was not even aware of them because my conscious self messages are overwhelmingly positive -- I'm a high achiever, etc, etc. But through following the instructions in the book I started to pay more attention to my self-talk and I realize that spontaneously things would pop into my head, for instance partway through analyzing an interaction to work out where my date went bad, a thought popped into my head "that's all you're worth". I dismissed this instantly as a nasty, cynical thought. But it's strange that it came up at all.

So the meditations are partly based on NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming), what you do is re-experience events that have caused you trauma and in your mind handle them differently. There are various tricks to fool your mind into rewriting its history, for instance the creation of anchors, e.g. you think of a time when you were particularly assertive and powerful and then touch your thumb and forefinger together on a particular hand to associate it with these emotions. Then when you're re-experiencing the traumatic event you can recall those emotions by accessing the anchor and use them to deal with the trauma in the moment. That's the next thing to try.

I will write an update later on. Anyway, I went to the first 12 step meeting tonight and it was really fantastic, I thought very helpful, and the people were really warm and open. The thing is that GC has kind of become my substitute 12 step group since I was unwilling to seek help, and the GC community are really supportive, for example you can talk about porn addiction or ED which you would never discuss with people in real life that you're intimate with, and you won't be judged, only encouraged.

But at the same time, weakness is not encouraged here, manliness is, and so certain things were going to be difficult to open up about. We can see this in Altair's thread (Altair if you're reading this I apologize for referring to you in the 3rd person, please understand I want us to help and support each other). Altair is experiencing similar issues to what I am, he feels he is unworthy of the girls he is after. Anyway, I'm determined to solve the problem and willing to research it and do what I need to do.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:59 am

Have realized that in nearly all my interactions lately I've been too much of a pussy to go for the date or number (I guess looking for the perfect high point or thinking I didn't know her well enough or whatever), probably missed a lot of low hanging fruit as a result.

So today a slow day, slept for most of it, have had a cold and a really sore neck lately but eventually got an outfit together and went shopping, was just gonna get groceries and a massage but ended up buying shitloads of awesome clothes first, found a suit in a silky light grey fabric, I just wanted the jacket to wear with jeans but grabbed the pants too cos the cut and the fit was transcendental, cannot wait to wear them (unfortunately bought a grey suit for Court just before discovering GC and it's too loose/baggy, now I've lost a bit of weight and I know to buy tight fitting and this is great). Everything was marked down...

Anyway so I was waiting for the register when cute 30s chick with red curls comes over and opens up another register for me, is this an IOI? So I start passing her the clothes and chatting about nothing much, her/my day etc, she asks if I knew it was super Saturday and so on. Then I say
Ray: So how did you end up working here?
Her: I applied for a casual position last year and I liked it
Her: How about you, what do you do
how about you, what do you do?
Ray: We help companies save money
Her: Oh? (she turns and does some other stuff and calls out to me) What's your method?
Ray: Making them more efficient
Her: (wants me to continue but I don't)... oh well that's always good
Ray: So you had some experience in this area.
Her: I used to run a business importing homewares and wholesaling them, blah blah
Ray: Oh? (I don't want to say, why did you stop, cos I figure the business failed and this would be a downer)
Her: I gave the business to my husband in the divorce
Ray: So now you're very much single...
Her: (smiles) Yep!
Ray: We should get together sometime
Her: (giggles and laughs a bit in an embarrassed but happy way)
Ray: Put your number on the receipt for me
Her: Okay!
Ray: So you always work on the weekends.
Her: Oh I work anytime, all the time...
Ray: That comes from being a business owner.
Her: (looks confused)
Ray: When you're a business owner you're working all the time right
Her: Oh yeah
Ray: Are you capable of relaxation? (I try to smile flirtatiously but I probably should have thrown in a wink too, she probably misses the sexual frame)
Her: Oh totally yeah... (she finishes ringing up the sale and I pay)
Ray: Okay I'll be in touch see you

There were some other shirts / shorts I noticed while in line and I kinda wanted to keep shopping but following Chase's rule of never frequenting the same venue where you have a girl pending, I left... probably good for my wallet.

Texted an icebreaker after my massage "Hey [her name]...new friend :) it's Ray save my number :)" no response yet. I had been thinking of hitting her up for tonight since I have realized I'm moving much too slow generally... but maybe she is gonna flake, oh well.

I did another approach to a cute girl working in a different store although did not have the balls to go direct, she knew what was happening though since I just asked her about her day and so on rather than about the merchandise. Talked to her for 5¬10 min about her background, studies, plans etc. She went off to help another customer, I hung around a bit and left, figured I had not generated sufficient attraction...still was just having fun.

On the way to grocery shopping missed an opportunity when I caught some woman checking me out, she wasn't super hot but after breaking eye contact I kicked myself for not opening. Need to be way more on the ball here...

Now I think I will go out wearing my new suit jacket and jeans and get a drink somewhere, see if my momentum carries me.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:58 pm

Okay did nightgame for the first time in a while... hit up a number of lounge bars and a pub down the main street near my home as I gradually headed into the city and hit up the main venue that I like (the English pub with live music and grinding to techno and lots of pussy) around 22:30...

The first few venues weren't that productive, I was in my head a bit but I gave it a shot, e.g. I sat next to one girl with a bit of a Dita von Teese look going and spoke to her a bit, I probably came on a bit strong (ordered her to put her phone away and talk to me and she didn't comply) and she fucked off after 5 min or so without saying goodbye.

I tried a bit of night street game, did quite a few approaches to women walking by themselves and had a few brief conversations but nothing substantial. Things started to get better in the 3rd venue when I hung out near the bar and did some "hey stop for a minute" openers and "I saw you glancing over my way and I noticed you look cute and..." kinda stuff.

I met a cute little German chick and it went like this... "hey while you're waiting for your drink I wanted to introduce myself, I'm Ray..." she replies, I say "I can hear an accent where are you from?" she replies, I say "oh cool and what made you come to Australia?" she says "my boyfriend" and so I say "I don't want to be your boyfriend" ... I continue to tease her, each time she says anything I go "oh because of your boyfriend?" hehe. Her friend gets back and they fuck off but I first ask her what city she's from, tell her I've been to her city, and ended up in the red light district and it was like oh my God... (I should have been more of an asshole about this, there were like smackheads cooking up on the pavement next to our car etc)... I say well I would have liked to talk to you for longer because you're cute, after they go I realize I should have said "and I see you as a fuck buddy" just for fun. Anyway I decide to make a point of telling this to the next girl I meet when I have an opportunity. I open some more ladies, one of them is very tall and gorgeous and I caught her checking me out and I tell her so. But she has to go back to her table as her sister is visiting, blah blah.

So I wander off down the street and end up outside this smallish place where there is live music from zithers etc (folk style) apparently its a CD launch and lots of people are lining the pavement and its chockers inside... so I step up just inside the door where I see a HB9 who is very tall and classy, I correctly guess that she's selling the CDs (they are $10) and I tell her she's gorgeous and that if she wasn't working I would drag her down the street to somewhere quieter, she says "oh that's a bit cave mannish" and I'm delighted, I say truthfully "yep, that's what we're aiming for... there is a real shortage of cavemen in this city isn't there"... we banter back and forth (turns out she is about 2cm taller than me and she's not wearing heels either) but I can barely hear shit and so I tell her "since we can hardly communicate why don't we exchange numbers and continue this later on", she shows me her wedding ring and so I counter by showing her my tungsten rings, I wear one of them on my wedding finger just to confuse women... she says "I'm married!" and I reply "I don't want to be your boyfriend... I see you more as a fuck buddy" and she says "right! that's enough" in a pretty offended tone so I back off a bit... I put my hand on her arm and say "I'm just teasing you, I didn't mean to offend you..." I eject, happy that I pushed a boundary.

As I'm heading back to the car I see Dita von Teese again, she's holding a bottle of wine outside a bottle shop and fiddling with her phone. I don't realize who it is for a moment and I'm just gonna open and ask if there's enough wine for 2... then she turns to me and I say "oh hey it's you... do you have time for me now, or should I just fuck off?" This was meant to be ironic but maybe came across a bit pussy-pedestal-ish. She says "I'm just waiting for a cab" so I reply "oh right... where u headed" and she is going home which is nearby. So I say "I was just heading back to the car now, I'll take you there" "no thanks" "oh c'mon, we can listen to some music in the car and talk for a bit" she's not down. This last bit was me trying to be more of a PUA than a white knight but it's too late, the vibe was down the toilet from the first time she blew me off.

So now I head into the city, the first venue I hit up is the one that specializes in Asian beer, I don't really like this venue but I figure I'm too early to hit the dance floor next door and I want to chill for a bit and open some more women first... the line is like 10ppl deep and stretches the length of the bar and it's hardly moving but I open quite a few women in the line, get a few blowouts, but some of them are receptive. The best one I'll call Julia, I compliment her cute outfit (she's in a figure hugging flower print skirt and a matching boob tube kinda deal, pure class though) and tell her she's very tall and gorgeous... we banter a bit about the ppl in front of us, eventually she splits off to the right and I go to the left to avoid them... she's making more headway than me, so I ask her to order me a soda water and she complies! She also will not accept payment for it, so this looks pretty good, but I do not capitalize because they are heading back to a table somewhere and I do not want to look like I'm following them. Should have number closed in the line maybe... another guy was trying to hit on her but was being a white knight (letting her go ahead of him etc) so I chuckled a bit that my approach would generate a bit more investment than his... Having got my free drink I then head to the back of the venue to the queue for outside (smoking area) and open a cute Turkish tourist girl, she was really tall and stunning, and we have a good conversation, but once again we part ways at the head of the queue as I don't want to follow her to her table. Damn really need to be maximizing my results, thought I might see her later (and actually I did talk to her German friend later in the other venue).

So now over to the pussy factory, well I'll cut a long story short since I didn't have heaps of conversation and a lot of it just consisted of introducing myself to women, telling them they're cute and having it fizzle out from there... a nice Mexican chick, I knew she was South American from her looks but I forgot to do a cold read so wasted an opportunity there... a tall gorgeous Kenyan chick, I got some conversation going but I knew it was sunk when she tricked me into complying with looking after her coat when she went to the toilet (she said she was going to the toilet, I said you'll come back? in hindsight this looked needy... she said okay and then after turning to go she casually indicates her coat... so like a pussy I go okay, I didn't really have a leg to stand on since I'd already basically agreed to wait for her)... this pissed me off and when she got back I told her "that took fucking ages, you owe me a drink now" and she doesn't comply. Next! I also use this line "you owe me a drink now" on a few other women on the dance floor, one who falls over onto me, and another who splashes me with a tiny drop of her beer, and I get some laughs with this.

I bumped into a good mate I hadn't seen for 6mths or so (since before GC, he actually did not recognize me for a bit due to my new hair and style), he was with his housemate [Housemate] who I also know, and who turns out to be a real cool dude and to have some game. They introduce me to 3 Chinese girls and I banter with them for a bit, I deep dive one of them on and off (in between drinking with my buddies, I normally don't drink but I made an exception to have a round of shots with them with beer chasers cos I was delighted to see them)... introduce myself to the bar girl who is pouring the shots and she's cool too. I fail to get my favourite Chinese girl to go and dance with me tho.

A French chick (working holiday I think) I spoke to for ages in the corner, basic deep diving stuff, had my arm around her for most of the time but when she said she was going I went for the number and no dice... I think I did not generate enough attraction as I just did friendly vibe and forgot to toss in any sexual stares or whatever... this because I was kinda tired and reverting to normal nice guy self. So I then ordered her to give me a kiss and she hemmed and hawwed a bit and said only on the cheek, I fixed her with a sexual stare at that point and let a bit of tension build but eventually pointed to my cheek and she kissed me (it felt great actually, very soft) and went off.

I go back to the DF pretty drunk and happy and do more game, I get some grinds with a few different women and this goes okay. I also do a circuit around the venue and sit down with a cute Asian (slim, white shirt and tight black skirt, she's fucking hot), she turns out to be 34 and Korean and it goes okay in the beginning (frame battle since we cannot hear each other, she refuses to move into the seat next to me and I refuse also, shoulda known she'd be trouble, she obviously has some game)... she begins asking for compliments and I bust her stones... e.g. "I'm ugly" "oh well I'll just have to lower my standards then"... "I'm old" "don't worry, old is the new young"... she begins asking me a lot of questions about myself and because I'm exhausted and cannot think of deflecting moves I comply... end up telling her about my marriage, my kids, my divorce and so on... not voluntarily but I don't tell lies so it was hard to avoid. Next time I'm just gonna say things like "yeah I have a harem of 17 wives but I'm a bit bored with them so I came out to fuck some more women tonight" or "I have children in outer Mongolia, don't worry I send them 20 cents a month" but didn't think of this approach in the moment. We talk for ages and it's getting a bit stale, that fucker also moves me to another table (why did I comply) and has me mind her umbrella while she goes to the toilet (I say "I'm not fucking hanging around here looking after your shit and waiting for you" but when she explains she only wants to go to the toilet and she'll be quick I decide not to be a dick, still I wish I hadn't complied)... eventually I decide enough of this shit, time to see if she'll put out, so I move her into a dark corner and tell her to snuggle in close... and although I've basically had my hands on her body the whole time we've been talking she won't comply now... seeing what is coming... so I order her to hold my hand and she doesn't comply either... fuck this, I'm on the verge of telling her to get lost but I decide to try a bit of deep diving and then give it another shot, since I realize I have talked too much about myself... but I guess I blew my chances. Eventually I say "ohh well come and have a dance with me" she won't comply "c'mon we are just talking about boring shit lets just go and do something fun" etc etc but no dice. I go back to the DF and continue gaming though my vibe is shot.

Or not quite! I then get some slow intimate dancing going with a hot hot hot Chinese chick, she was a bit plump but had a huge soulful moonface and a great outfit going, I'm hugging her to me and she's reciprocating and grinding my hardon into her body in time to the beats and she's loving it, we can't communicate at all (it's too loud, I just grabbed her and started dancing with her because her friend picked up some other guy and she was left out)... I'm feeling her stomach, her breasts, I'm getting my hand up her skirt and I'm trying to generate sexual tension by caressing her face and neck, eventually she goes to consult with her friend and after me and the other guy wait for a moment I grab her back and continue, however I think I should have moved her to outside for some deep diving, because I'm going through the same routine of grinding and feeling her up and it's getting stale. Eventually she ejects, the three of them go off somewhere and I don't follow. Later I see them coming back and I make sure I'm dancing with someone else (Thai chef chick who is a bit of a fatty but actually extremely cute and nice, she isn't that into me but consents to a little grinding anyway).

Moonface and friends proceed to cockblock me for the rest of the night, at one stage I did catch her eye and indicated her over, but she didn't comply (I'm finding this move to be extremely useful because it's low effort and it filters out the women who are going to be useless). Anyway I open a lot more women but it's getting late and I'm tired so it doesn't really go anywhere useful. By the end I've probably approached at least one target from nearly all the groups in the venue, and it's a really big venue.

When it closes I offer Housemate a lift home, but apparently my other mate is asleep in the car waiting for him, so no need. So head out of the venue and banter a lot with Thai chef chick, she says she works in the morning and so I suggest a date for later in the week (even though she's fat) but she's not down, makes some excuse about how we can catch up next time we see each other in the English pub, and so I say "in other words no... but it was fun dancing with you, next time turn around and face me though". Housemate joins in the conversation, I dunno if he met her earlier or if he's jumping in off my back, but they are getting on fabulously, and I'm happy for him. Later after we all go down to the street I see him number closing her, so I fuck off so as not to spoil the vibe... I open some more women down at street level but I must say it's like a wolfpack out there, there's absolutely nothing I can do to distinguish myself since if any girl peels away from the group of guys she's with immediately another horde descends on her... I realize there's no point having any game in this situation so I cross the street and go to Burger King and see if I can get a bit of gaming going there.

This is where it gets kinda interesting. I come in and open a cute-ish girl with nice tits by telling her I like her outfit, I then go order and I get my food, she's sitting near the counter so I turn to her/her group and ask her if she knows where I can get a straw... she says "yeah on the floor over there" and indicates, and sure enough the straws dispenser has been spilt onto the muddy floor... so I tell her she can go get me one and lick it clean for me (rediscovering my asshole vibe) and she's amused.

At this point a really hot little chick comes in and as she's about to get in line I open her and tell her she's totally cute, I'm really into this girl and she comes and sits beside me and I put my arm around her and start chatting her up, but then her boyfriend comes over and starts being a dick, like interrupting mid conversation to give her a really ostentatious kiss on the lips...

I also see another dude, who has clearly read GC, come over and try to number close someone from the table of women that I first spoke to... this dude was everywhere, opened a lot of the same groups I did in the venue... wasn't a bad guy but I see his game is a bit off, she is clearly just giving him her number to get him to fuck off... he's trying to get a text off to her (this is why I think he's read GC) when they all leave and he's like hey!!! wait!!! come back I'm sending you a text!! or whatever and she just blows him out really rudely. Haha.

Anyway back to my little cutie, well I compliment her on her outfit and her bangles and so on, some other guys sit down at the newly vacated table and they start getting into a drunken argument with her which is hilarious... she can clearly give as good as she gets, but she's a total pussycat to me. I start whispering in her ear and dick boyfriend comes over demanding to know what I'm saying, I stare him down and go "does it matter?" I'm so looking for a way to number close this chick discreetly. She says she needs to go to the toilet, so I say I'll show her where it is, she's down so I get up and begin guiding her across the restaurant, but dick boyfriend comes and starts being possessive again, by this stage I want to deck him and make off with the goods but it's not worth it, she's not at the stage where she'll choose me over him. Later I realize the right strategy would have been to tell her this: "Okay... here is the plan. We are gonna get up and casually walk to the door over there, while your friends are ordering... when we get to the door... RUN!" and this might have worked if I was dominant enough.

I hang around in Burger King for a while cos it's raining hard out... open a cute Chinese cutie in a tracksuit who is there with her friend, she was pretty put off by my approach but I calm things down and get some basic information out of her, cannot figure out what she's doing in the city in a tracksuit at 3.30am though. I ask her if she was clubbing and she's like "yeah right, do I look like I've just been clubbing?" and she eventually leaves me hanging on this, and goes off with her friend, oh well. I see Housemate come in with Thai chef chick and I say hi, they look kinda embarrassed to see me and fuck off, I hope he got lucky :) I shoulda let them make out in my car since they obviously couldn't use their car with my buddy sleeping in it, but I don't realize this until later. I talk to a Nepali dude out the front who is cool. I see dick boyfriend and the 2 girls going in various directions, and their body language looks like he's fighting with my girl (I'm not surprised cos he's a total dick, not a man, his insecure behaviour proves it)... I decide to go get my car and make an effort to steal this woman away into it, but when I get back with the car, I cannot locate them. Oh well.

It's time to go home. I'm exhausted and empty handed. But I got a slow dance, coulda been a great makeout if I'd gone for the kiss while I had the chance. I feel pretty down and insecure. I think of all the rude blowouts I got, and start to take them personally. I think of how my game was nonexistent in the latter part of the night (not rejecting compliance, giving too much information about myself, not moving women or going for the number at a high point, etc etc) and feel a bit depressed, like it's gonna be a long fucking journey to get better at this. But having written up the highlights above, I realize it was actually a pretty successful night. Certainly I opened a shit ton of women and had a lot of fun, basically 6 months ago I would have gone out, and not opened any women, and just made cow eyes at them on the dance floor... H'm!

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm going to an outdoor rave festival in two weeks, I'm planning to spend the whole time opening women. My more subtle game will shine here which it didn't tonight, since it's not a meat market and has more alternative chicks... luckily I spent years going to raves every weekend, so I know exactly how to handle this. I want to get laid at a rave for the first time, I've always been too timid to go for it before, and had no game, well that's history now, there will be 1000s of women there and I reckon I can do this. Anyway it turns out my buddy who I met tonight will be there, so we'll be able to drive/camp together and have a secure home base. Yeah!!
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby snipefield » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:29 pm

Hey Ray, that's an impressive outing, you really gave it all you had!! I enjoyed the cocky/funny comebacks. Kudos for persisting with the girl at BK with the boyfriend. Were you not concerned at all when you opened her that the cute-ish girl with nice tits who you commanded to lick off the straws would be upset that you started to talk with someone else?

Also, did you see the hot little chick's boyfriend before opening her? Was not he not aggressive when he approached you?

Also, the conversation with the cashier in the store from your previous post was instructive for me. I liked the detailed breakdown of how to introduce some sexual tension into the conversation with the relaxation double entendre.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:11 pm

Thanks bro, well the cocky/funny comebacks are an area where I hope to improve so they become automatic, but at the moment it's a lot of effort and if I come out with 3 or 4 in an outing I'm pretty rapt. :)

As to the cute-ish girl with the non-cleavage (lots of upper/inner slope but not pushed together haha)... well the whole point is preselection / making them jealous so it's actually a great idea to turn and flirt with some other chick for a while and see if it spikes, in this case it didn't (they left) but also I wasn't really engaged with her in the first place, just kinda sitting opposite their table and bantering a bit. A similar rationale applied with Moonface and Thai chef chick, I saw Moonface & co making their way over to the DF again so I wanted to get some preselection / IDGAF going by dancing with some other girl, just so it didn't look like I'd been waiting anxiously for them to get back.

I forgot to mention that I encountered Moonface near the DF after the lights went up, she started to turn away so I said to her loudly "it was nice knowing you" and slapped her playfully on the ass haha... also down at street level after I engaged two other touristy women and walked with them for a bit discussing plans for the continuation of the night (this at 3.30am, they insisted they had to go back to their hostel and pack for a 6am airport bus, I said no point going to sleep now, let's just party on etc)... I gave up and farewelled them, and began to walk back, and encountered Moonface again! This time I just said "heyy.." in a tender tone and touched her on the elbow as we passed each other. I think these antics were good for conveying interest without appearing chasey, whatever, she wasn't down, really regret not handling it all better.

Hot little chick's boyfriend: Nope he came in slightly after her, and I was sitting down near the queue so she basically filled all my vision as she went to get in line. TBH I probably wouldn't have had the balls to open if I had realized she was with a guy (but I reckon I need to change this as they are often just guy friends)... anyway no he wasn't that threatening, he was tall but that's about all you could say. I wouldn't say slobbish, but he reminded me of that quote from Chase's ebook, that most guys tend to continue dressing the way they did as children... hair average, weight average, no real musculature, etc. Anyway his behaviour was so beta that I could never be scared.

Cashier chick: Flaked... damn! I obviously did not generate enough attraction, but I'm glad I pushed the envelope by moving fast for the number. I'm gonna keep doing this.

Thanks so much for the detailed questions / feedback. This journalling shit is fun. I saw your latest posts too. Go get em bro ;) Ray
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:38 am

OMG this is as weird as hell, in a good way...

Some background: Last Sunday after my nightgaming adventure I slept in and then went to visit some family friends, this was because I wanted to visit my grandmother's BFF who is sick and staying with her son. Anyway the son (an Aussie) is married to a Chinese wife who is hot. I'll call her Ying. I guess she is late 40s and he is early 50s?

Well the first thing I noticed is on the phone her accent is OMG so sexy, sounds kind of British (Queen's English), she was born in Aussie and raised all over the place (Papua New Guinea, Hong Kong...??)...anyway so I was deep diving her for like hours, in reality I just wanted to keep her talking so I could listen to her voice. Well she is very religious and very much in love with her hubby, so nothing is going to happen, but still. She is also very altruistic, doing this 24hr care of her mother-in-law (with help of people from the Church) and so on... although I don't really buy the altruism, I think she wants recognition, so I was trowelling it on. I used all my GC conversation skills.

She was telling me about her bible classes and I said I'm interested in bible study. But actually I meant like academic bible study...like comparative linguistics sorta thing, where you have multiple copies of the source documents in different languages from different periods, and you can figure out that somebody added a certain passage to the Gospel of Luke later on which totally changes its meaning, or was inserted to make it sound like some bloodthirsty prophecy of the Old Testament came true, or whatever... anyway she talks a lot so I didn't get a chance to say any of this, instead she was inviting me to bible study, etc... I was adding cheeky stuff like "would it be sinful to hit on girls in bible study class" and she says seriously "ohh well not at all, I'm sure lots of lifelong relationships have formed through bible study". Etc, etc...

Another interesting thing that happened was they invited me to dinner and a young Costa Rican student from my uni came along too (I think they know her through the Church or maybe from a kind of "salon" that they give on Wednesday evenings for groups of students). She was pretty nice and I deep dived her a bit. She ended up sitting next to me at the end of the table, so I served her some dinner and had her move her chair in a bit etc, I probably looked like (a) I wanted to hit on her -- I didn't because I wasn't attracted enough, she wasn't giving strong signals and I was worried if things went badly it would get back to my hosts, (b) I was being a white knight -- that also wasn't the case, serving her food is because this is polite in Japan and has become a habit for me. In reality I was just being myself, and outcome independent.

Anyway so this is the text conversation I had with her (Ying, not the Costa Rican student) today:
08:21 Her: Good morning Ray, [my husband] has someone he would like you to meet :) and we are wondering if you a free on [date] for dinner. We know you have the boys on [day of the week] - is that every [day of the week]? Can you let me know? Enjoy the beautiful day we have been blessed with!
16:19 Me: hi Ying, sorry I had not got back to you, kids keeping me busy, on [day of the week] I am tied up until [time] in [place] so the earliest I could get there would be [time], that works fine for me though. I'm intrigued as to who I will be meeting :)
00:21 Her: That is alright Ray. I also have had a very full day. We saw your parents for dinner - here at home. We will look forward to seeing you on [date] around [time], if we don't see you before. I am also intrigued by who you will be meeting as I have heard of her but have not yet met her. If you are open to meeting single young women we know many:)

My God... I made quite an impression it seems.

Incidentally the lady I was visiting is married to a dude who I have become kinda close with, and he wanted at one stage to set me up with his daughter, or maybe it was his granddaughter, I never got around to calling her because (1) I was going through some issues at the time (2) I was shy (3) I was worried if it went badly it might impact on things...

What's the right thinking here?
(1) My hosts will have built me up as a BF candidate
- BF-disqualification in that situation will look like disrespecting my hosts
(2) Avoiding giving information about myself will be tricky
- Asshole-ish responses to her questions will look like disrespecting my hosts
- My hosts may feel tempted to fill in the blanks if I do avoid giving information

For these reasons I think I should decline... this could get a bit messy and at worst fuck things up with my family. But actually I think I'm gonna proceed because (1) it will be hard to say no to Ying and (2) I don't have much else going on right now, I took a break from daygame to concentrate on my life, but I think it's time to return to it soon.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby snipefield » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:47 am

Very interesting, Ray! I like your sober assessment of the situation. Still, it's nice to know your charm is getting your social circle to work for you (in the best way they know how).

I had a New Testament historical analysis class just like you discussed. We used a textbook by Bart Ehrman, check him out, I think you will enjoy it (if you don't know of him already).
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:19 am

Thanks man I will check it out. See also Christopher Hitchens. I saw your latest approaches. Very cool. IIRC Troy also commented you do a lot of approaches -- you do. More than me ATM but I am stepping it up. I realize I have been too complacent with long gaming chicks in places I frequent and waiting for the perfect timing to ask them out -- it never arrives. Also have stagnated by doing only occasional, usually situational, opens.

Other day opened another cute teacher on yard duty with "so you are a teacher here" and it ended up being a long conversation, even though I earlier said I had to go, she then re engaged me... hmm but for some reason did not turn it sexual or anything but friendly, my game was off but I think maybe this is because I was not all that attracted (even though she was totally pleasant looking etc), just no hit of adrenaline?

I had just come from a shop in another part of town, where I was not even sure if I had time to go inside at all b/c traffic was terrible, it was further out of my way than expected, and being late for school pickup is a no-go... but fuck it, it was a really interesting shop (selling recycled and vintage clothing) and I really wanted to start constructing the bad-boy look from here, https://www.girlschase.com/content/6-outfits-will-help-you-look-sexy so I went in.

Awesome move, they had exactly what I wanted, sorta old style biker jacket, very fitted, in soft black leather with snaps on the lapels, some zips and a badass built in belt. Chick in there was hot and kept giving me these really warm friendly smiles and eye contact and helping me in every way possible, we chatted a bit about the merchandise, I got her name and introduced myself with a handshake and I said "I would have liked to stay and talk with you for a bit longer but unfortunately I have to go"... Facepalm, should have asked for her number at this point, but instead I said "maybe some other time, I'd like to look through all the other interesting gear here too when I can", my reasoning was I hadn't built enough of a connection, but I should have skipped steps given her IOIs looking back. I could have been even more badass by having her show me the storeroom (which had several similar jackets in my size) and whispering sexual shit in her ear as she did so, note to self, I'm gonna try this kind of stuff and "I saw your sexy ass in those tight jeans and ..." type openers etc. Because why not.

Anyway back to Charlotte... as she worked the VISA machine I told her I could not help noticing the awesome tattoo on her forearm and we talked about this for a bit then I ejected with some lame ass remark about traffic and time pressure. Anyway I will go back and show her the rest of my bad boy outfit some other time (I had asked her about distressed jeans, etc and explained what I was aiming for generally). A good thing about my long gaming is I have girls literally all over the place (as will be seen in next part of my report) so I never really feel the urge to do anything creepy or weird such as going to a shop I don't actually need to go to. This helps me to keep things congruent and avoid pressure on me and her.

So today I took my kids for a skate at the beginner ramp in the skateboard shop in the city, saw a fat but gorgeous Asian woman there while I was chatting to the owner, thought she worked there but maybe not cos didn't see her after. Kids were very grumpy and cranky and I had to put them in time out and got pretty angry and stressed by the time we left (no sleep does this to me) but we proceeded with the plan of getting me some Chelsea boots and then giving kids a treat in the chocolate shop (both are in the most expensive and poshest shopping street right in the centre of town, surrounded by shops like Tiffany and such like). This was serendipitous.

So I've been taking the kids to the chocolate shop after we go to the riverside city park or whatever, for a year or two, but more frequently lately, and we stay a while so they can eat a croissant and then a dessert while I have an amazing hot chocolate... a month ago I met May, I didn't really speak to her beyond politness as she took my payment (felt shy and was in my head/not in gaming mode) but 2 weeks ago I re-opened her "I remember you from last time, what's your name?" and got out some game, a little kino etc, a little deep dive (though she hasn't given me a lot to work with so far), speaking her language -- she's Vietnamese -- and now she makes sure to take our table when we are there. She likes my kids too. (I usually put shirts on them and although they get covered in chocolate as does the entire vicinity, they are quite well behaved in this environment, lucky as it's really more of a posh adult-oriented place and they could easily be snotty at us).

So today I greeted her in Vietnamese and by her Vietnamese name (hard to pronounce) and asked her health -- she was happy -- game on. My youngest got stroppy about some mistake I made in his order and blew up a bit, and so I saw an opportunity for kino, leaned in close with touch and said in a low voice "it's been that kind of day..." Things pretty ordinary from there, more conversation (about her week, routine etc) whenever she was in the vicinity but it got busy so eventually I took the chocolate monsters to the toilet, cleaned them up and went to leave.

Well initially some coworkers were kind of around but I spent a little time asking her the total in Vietnamese and paying, it thinned out and she then did 2 things: addressed me by name with strong eye contact (her remembering my name 2 weeks later after serving hundreds of customers is a strong sign of investment, I realized at the time) and complimented me on my kids, I grabbed the chance.
May: Bye Raymond! You are so good with your kids, they are very well behaved.
Ray: (Smile, nod acknowledgement) I am usually busy with my kids and you are busy with your customers. (At this point the room goes a bit quiet so I lower my voice conspiratorially) So next time you have a day off join me for a drink. (I realize this could be ambiguous so I mime sipping a cup of tea -- VN girls often don't drink alcohol)
May: Okay. (She is nodding, she seems down, there may be a slight smile although her vibe is fairly neutral)
Ray: Write down your number for me. (Still conspiratorially)
May: (Looks over behind me and to my right to another customer waiting whom I had not noticed, my bad) I have to help this customer. Next time.
Ray: (Nods) You had better be ready. (Slight smile, eject)

Hmm. This could be the politest blowout I've ever had, but I think she is for real (if not no biggie). I won't hurry back but next time I'm there I'll just converse naturally and see if she slips me her number. I hope so. Note the boss or manager does seem to keep an eye on things (spoke to him briefly today before we were seated).

I feel great because I took action (I don't care about the result or lack thereof, I am pretty much outcome independent).

In other news I spent up big at the boot shop. My plan was to get fitted and then maybe get the Chestnut boots, and then bid on some ebay auctions for the black ones second hand to wear with my recycled leather jacket (there is an auction finishing tomorrow so I had to know my size before then)... however they had a special (reduce from $880 to $750 if you buy two pairs, also get two matching belts for $130)... so ebay wouldn't have been that much cheaper, these boots are handmade and hold their value very well, should last 10yrs with re-soling. So I just fucking went for it. Yeah!! The black ones look sick with skin tight jeans, recycled biker jacket and a dress shirt. You can't see the belt well but that's also sick. My mum will prob cover it since my birthday is coming up anyway.

Note the boots are Craftsman by R M Williams, made in South Australia. I saw a picture of our former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd wearing them with a suit to meet President Obama, apparently Obama liked them so much he wanted to know how to order them online. I highly recommend them to GC readers, see also styleforum.com or similar (can't remember) which has a kind of "last post you will ever need" explaining all the intricacies of sizing, construction, lasts (or is it laths), the different leathers (kangaroo... or ostrich anyone), etc. It compares them favourably to several European brands of custom made shoes with side by side photos and so on.

I also chatted up a cute checkout chick in the new supermarket opened last week near my home. A perfect opportunity for a deep dive as I could ask her what she was doing before. She may have caught me checking out her tits but it did not seem to bother her. Said I would see her soon and talk some more later since I'm right nearby. Then my card didn't work, had to pay her $5 by cash and card the rest. Damn those boots! So I joked that as I've held up her line I owe her a drink now and she laughed. More slow gaming... but I do feel it's good to build comfort and get them at least somewhat used to you before burning it down.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:55 pm

OMG OMG I now officially have a player reputation!! I am so excited, not sure that I have really earned it, but it can only make things easier from here :) :)

More about that in a moment, just a few notes on preceding days.

Sunday uneventful, we went to the garden store and I saw some hot women I wanted to open, but I do not push myself hard when I am with the kids so I was waiting for them to come into my vicinity, in each case they rejoined their BF pretty soon. Oh well.

I really did not enjoy the family dinner on Sunday. I was cranky and tired due to lack of sleep. But even so. Going to these dinners is basically something I do for everybody else's sake. Particularly so my kids could play with their cousins and that's legitimate... but why do I religiously attend every Sunday even in the off weeks? Now that I am trying to upgrade myself to value my time more and stop complying with others' wishes... I realize I really should be making a cost/benefit analysis, and ditching it if it is not providing me value for my time spent.

Family dinner - pros
- I can flirt with my cousin's GF, she's a fatty but sexy and nice.
- I can see my sister Charlotte (see OR "women are dirrrty")
- I can touch base with my mum and my sister-in-law
- Brownie points w my mum who wants all family to attend
- I can flirt with older Filipino lady who helps my mum with the dishes, this time I complimented her on her outfit, she looked fabulous in a red top. I asked if I could borrow it to dress up as Santa on Christmas haha. Then she was telling me how she woke up with a sore shoulder, so I said I'll stand behind her and massage it while she does the dishes, I only charge $20 an hour (she told me this is what she charges) and we kicked this around for a while, eventually I offered her a discount to half price because she has a very sexy back, etc etc hahaha. One slight issue with this interaction was I instinctively went to get some touch going and then held myself back thinking it wouldn't be appropriate -- and this blocking reaction is something I am trying to eliminate. (Note she is married).

Family dinner - cons
- Generally boring conversation
- Takes many hours
- By the time dinner is served I have usually eaten so many cheese and biscuits I feel sick. I just fuckin knew this would happen when I ate the first one and I have worked hard to eliminate this, but only really had a few successful outings where I didn't eat cheese and biscuits. Fuck so frustrating.
- Generally fatty food and desserts although there are usually healthy options too. It's just I don't want to be near unhealthy food, it's too problematic for me. Fuck again.
- Other sister-in-law I don't really like, she never acknowledges me and I find this insulting. I'm willing to do some of the work.
- My grandmother's incessant whining and complaining.
- My dad putting people down all the time -- I was listening to him talking to my grandmother about her hired help -- this lady is so awesome, she puts up with so much shit and still loves my grandmother... anyway my dad was encouraging her to give her the sack for being less than 100% attentive while she goes through some personal issues... I can't believe how entitled they all are, I mean I'm not innocent myself (just spent $750 on two pairs of boots) but I don't dump on poor people.
- Fuckin hangers-on, my cousin's husband's mum usually comes along even though this couple actually lives 1hr away and never attends, she's not too bad but I find her presence intrusive, also her son, who is at uni but seems to be a bit of a mother's boy, he tends to come, and then just mope around being boring, and it often falls to me to take pity on him and drive a conversation etc. Well not this time, I ignored him. Ha.
- Having little common ground with my brothers, I particularly detest one of them (his girlfriend is having IVF and she attended without him, she's cool so I talked with her for a bit, but boy I feel sorry for her when she has a kid and discovers what a dick he is... she has a pretty fucked up family background herself so she probably doesn't value herself even though she is stunningly beautiful and very talented). Anyway my brothers are always thick as thieves about their steel company, and all their penis extension toys (motorbikes, boats etc that I have basically no interest in whatsoever, I don't have the time or the money to waste on things like that).
- I always feel bad about myself in these people's company, they look down on me as being immature, bad with money, a relationship fuckup etc... and I always seem to be trying to justify myself to them and raise my value in their eyes. Fuck.

Yeah anyway... maybe I'll give it a miss, at least in no-kid weeks. The best things about the night (1) chatting with the help and (2) getting 15 mins of shuteye when no one looking.

So anyway I got kids home and had enormous conflict with youngest, took an hour and multiple 5 minute timeouts in the laundry before I could break his defiance over an issue that was really not worth making an issue in the first place, but it was a matter of principle that once I say no it sticks. Felt totally exhausted from this and lay down on my bed, nearly went to sleep and then phone goes off! It's my skype date!

This woman I hadn't spoken to before, well she's young and hot, her only bad feature is probably her front teeth but they're pretty much fine. Video chatted her for 1hr and got some outrageous sexual frames and flirting in, my most successful language exchange to date... for example
(we are talking about the time difference)
Her: You have to go to bad now. (she means bed)
Me:You first!
Her: Starts laughing uncontrollably.
Me: It's pronounced "bed"... e.g. you are bad in bed
Her: Starts giggling all over again. No I'm god girl!!
Me: You are naughty girl!! But I'm a God in bed!
Her: Gets the joke...laughs so hard she falls off her chair
Her: God you mean like in Heaven
Me: I take girls to heaven (I've been keeping it more deadpan, just smiling a bit but I cannot help kacking myself now... the great thing about these Skype interactions is you can see yourself the whole time, imagine being on an insta date with a mirror on her shirt, you can calibrate yourself more easily, I have eliminated some troublesome expressions/mannerisms)
Her: You always say the flirt, you are a bad man... etc

Anyway I felt a lot better after this. Haha.

So I hatched a plan to re approach Helga the cute teacher, this time in her classroom before school... get some dominance going (have her sit down and pay me attention, get her number etc)... maxed out my outfit, got kids organized, was only 5min late leaving the house... anyway cock blocked again by my fucking 5 year old who decided to stage a major trantrum at care so I had to ring my ex and her mother to come and help deal with it (my time finishes at 9am so its over to them)... arrived at school with 5min before the bell, thought I would approach Helga anyway and walk her down to assembly, start to go find her then realize the logistics are not good. Anyway she came late, I did catch her checking me out from the other side of the stadium but she was too far away to establish proper eye contact so I looked away to the side. Tried another stratagem to "bump into her" afterwards but timing was off. I had a coffee date setup with another mum in any case. Damn.

Now here comes the juicy bit, this mum had requested to meet with me and talk with me about an issue, well it turns out that word on the street is I'm sleeping with Sam, my mistress mentioned multiple times in these posts... Our friendship is no secret but I'm not sure how people knew we were together, I guess she has been indiscreet cos I haven't, in fact I've repeatedly stressed to her about security and she hasn't complied until after multiple soft NEXT... or maybe people just guessed. Apparently people are keeping tabs on how often and when we meet (it's actually no secret that we have a regular Wednesday playdate)... so apparently some gossipy mum has said to the mum I'm having coffee with (whose name is coincidentally also Sam)... that I am lining her up as my next conquest. Supposedly every time we're in the vicinity the electricity crackles between us, this is news to me since I'm not even attracted to Sam #2 (have met her for coffee once before and deep dived her and shared a lot but this was only on a friendly basis)... I threw in some half hearted chase frames "Ohh then you should stay at least a hundred metres away from me... but you're not are you... ;)" and I'm certain this was an IOI, if I played my cards right she mighta been down. But I didn't want to, I'm sick of screwing women just because they chose me. Told her as far as I knew she was happily married but if I'm under a misapprehension then do explain... I wasn't sure that I had done anything to express interest, not that I'm uninterested since you're an attractive woman... etc. We got onto discussing society generally, slut shaming and so on. This woman is cool. But she asked if I'd mind not approaching her in the playground due to her reputation, she's happy to be friends though. I said sure, whatever, personally I wouldn't let the gossip control me, but then again I'm not a woman... also when she initially brought up this topic I just laughed and said oh right... everyone thinks I'm getting lots of sex... awesome that's the nicest compliment I've been paid in a while etc (got this from someone's FR on how to handle player reputation)... anyway I was a bit non plussed overall but it's gotta be good right. Pity about Sam getting slut shamed tho. Note I didn't confirm or deny any of the rumours to Sam #2.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:27 pm

Update after thinking about this on way to lunch, my cluster B ex was mentioned as part of the "keeping tabs on Ray" brigade and I now realize she likely started the rumours to get revenge on Sam for giving evidence against her in Court... what happened was the ex falsely claimed I had acted threateningly towards her at the school fete (and had stalked her to an interview at the kindergarten), I had a kick arse legal team and I had Sam give evidence that she'd witnessed nothing untoward in my interactions with ex (and a letter from kinder staff confirming ex to be a lying bitch) and I beat her arse. Hmm. It's either that or Sam's drama at the grade 1 drinks mixer which occurred before we ever fucked, but I thought that went under the radar since everyone was plastered.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:25 am

Solid outing today. I did not really plan it but I was kinda early for an appointment (to look at an apartment in the city) so I started opening girls on the tram and so forth. My first open got funny looks cos I just went straight in with "Hi there. What are you doing today?" kind of stuff, but mostly it was direct tailored compliment, a few times totally cute/gorgeous and quite a bit of "Hey, stop for a moment" in conjunction with those. Although lately I don't really overthink it, first I stop them and then I just say whatever, once they're facing me I can notice if they have nice eyelashes etc. It's really good to be a bit more relaxed and in the moment like this.

I have to be quick so I won't go into details, opened a shit ton but I was only really focusing on cold reading and maintaining my voice and posture and this went really well. However, banter suffered a bit. Where the cold reading tailed off here and there, it went a bit 20-questions like, but I didn't really care because I was just having fun. I wasn't aggressively pushing for numbers or anything, just enjoying the nice weather and seeing if I could find some interesting conversations to pass the time. There were a couple of noteworthy interactions:

Absolutely smashing Filipina in business attire (light blue/green suit, skirt), lovely makeup, gorgeous features and she checked me out as I was crossing the street and passed her, I grabbed eye contact with her, held it and went straight into "hey, stop for a moment"... turned around and said "I was just crossing the street when I noticed how absolutely gorgeous you are, so I wanted to introduce myself. I'm Raymond"... She had in fact stopped in the middle of the road, so I got some kino going as I guided her back to the other side. Then we got introduced, her name something like Saraya but I didn't catch it well. I guessed Chinese based on her physical appearance although the name didn't fit. She said she needed to get back to work but I kept her talking, I found out she's Filipina, so I came out with "you're beautiful" in Tagalog, basically just showing off (mistake #1) also it was redundant since I'd already direct opened (mistake #2) and probably came across corny and insincere (mistake #3). I said well if u need to get going then let's get together for coffee later and she made some excuse, either misunderstood or deliberately misunderstood that I meant now, and she said no she really has to get back. I've then continued to dig a hole for myself by saying... "oh..am I handsome?" in Tagalog, would have sounded needy (mistake #4) , anyway I wish I had handled this better because it's the first time I've stopped a girl who checked me out and she was such a stunning one at that... better to break out the language skills later when you have them on a date I think, but I'm not so good at this because I'm naturally a bit of a show off. (Does this come from insecurity/neediness? I don't really think so, I was good at drama and stuff at school, just like expressing myself and engaging people).

Lovely tall woman sitting down close by the central shopping centre / tram stop, I approached her from the side and stood next to her saying "I could not help noticing your pink shoes, you look fabulous... you also have some coordination going [indicating her pink phone case]". Turns out she was meeting a friend for a film. She was instantly friendly and engaging to me and totally up for being approached, I guessed Korean and business student and she was Chinese and Engineering student, but she mentioned she gets called Korean quite a lot. Introduced ourselves, I sat down with her, I was going to sit on her other side, but she misinterpreted my shoulder touch as moving her over and complied. I started to mention how when I was in engineering the first time around there was like one woman and 200 men whereas more recently I did engineering at our uni and there's more women than men... but didn't get far into this when her friend turned up. I ask what uni she's at and it's my uni so I say "Right that's it... we are going to have to meet up for a coffee then"... number closed, but realized I'd forgotten her fuckin name, decided to be honest about it and sent her the following text 20min later:
14:35 Me: Beautiful tall not-Korean lady with pink shoes, I apologize that I did not catch your name properly when we introduced ourselves? Hope u return safely from your intergalactic adventure :) Raymond
14:39 Her: My name is Ella. It was nice meeting you :)
14:52 Me: Thanks :) I'm around the campus Thursday if that suits u to meet up, otherwise from next Tue :)

No reply yet, but she's probably watching the film. Hope it works out.

Long conversation in the tram, opened her by asking if she was a tourist, I wasn't really that attracted but it passed the time. Then closed another Chinese cutie after I changed my outfit at the car (from business jacket which I put on for the apartment inspection, to bad-boy jacket for Japanese class) and started walking back to the office... Her name June (lots of these lately haha) and she said she was going to school, this raised questions as she looked all of 16, so I asked how old she was, 18, game on. Haha. She was pretty engaged, I really liked her and chatted a bit about her foundation study, her plans to study Environment next year, I suggested she skipped a few grades in high school in China and was spot on (she and I have this in common). To be honest I think she'll flake, I may have used too much touch? But anyway I got her number after she excused herself because she's going back to China soon for the holidays, I replied "ohh I'll be here..." meaning when she gets back.

Great to be back in business.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:49 am

More approaches before & after JP class, number closed an Aussie chick who was cute though I can't remember much about her (in fact forgot I had the number, better icebreaker now), went for a meal, got a little flirting in w waitress but she seemed uninterested overall, meanwhile other chick behind counter is checking me out very frequently and obviously, caught her eye several times & winked, went to talk to her but due to boss's presence didn't push her hard. (But I did quite well just engaging her since I had no real reason to do so).

Ended up a bit tired & in my head, still did more approaches although they were off. Realized I had got some small splashes of curry on my shirt (fuck) and would have to get a tram to the car to change. Went to Nando's and spent a while with soap, water, tissues but little improvement.

Outing over or so I thought. Well on the tram I glanced at a cute Asian girl's mobile screen (I was standing directly in front of her seat) and saw Katakana characters. Game on!! I decide to address her in Japanese. I do not know how to say "hey there" so I hesitated and went with "excuse me! I noticed that you are Japanese". She was down. I cannot remember the exact conversation, we talked about our day, our work, plans for the evening and so on (remember my vocabulary isn't great do I have to keep to relatively simple, obvious topics). I start to ask her out with some hesitation to find the correct phrasing
Me: you are in the city every day?
Her: yes
Me: ... (conjugating the verbs in my head)
Her: I have to get off at the next stop (she knows what is coming and wants me to get it out asap hahaha)
Me: Let's meet to drink something this week
Her: OK!
Me: Thursday?
Her: OK!
Me: Teach me your phone number
(Tram stops)
Me: I have to get off here too, the carpark is nearby
(We get off, we are both holding our phones)
(We start to talk but the sun is in our eyes, I grab her by the hand and lead her across the street and into the shade)
Me: It...(I conjugate I into past tense w difficulty) was bright
Her: It was in our eyes (teaches me how to say it)
Me: You're really not a teacher?
Her: laughs
Me: You are speaking leisurely, simple Japanese. Thank you (I reward her with touch... she's down)
Her: Let's exchange numbers then
(I call myself from her phone, then I save myself as レー, she's impressed, note to self better icebreak her too, in JP naturally)
Her: Where did you park?
Me: Beside dead person (I don't know how to say cemetary)
Her: laughs
(more conversation about how I learned JP, for how long, do I recommend my language school for her friend)
Me: Is your friend as cute as you? (I didn't go direct so I want to express interest)
Her: Uhhm.. she's cute [compared to me]... (she's being modest, comparatives in JP are a bit hard to explain)
Me: I think she wouldn't be cute [compared to you]... (I smile... she accepts the compliment, it doesn't sound so backhanded in JP cos of the grammar, sounds more like "I doubt that!")
(we talk about language exchange etc... she's deep diving me and I don't resist cos my usual go-to's I cannot easily translate)
Me: So where does your friend live then? (she's going to eat with friend)
Her: Ohh it's a house that way.
Me: Let's walk together.

I think I dropped the ball a bit by sharing too much (but I do get it back onto her regularly) and by not closing out on my terms. I walk east with her for a couple blocks when I had to go north, however this wasn't so much a flaw in my game as a misunderstanding cos I had understood her to be going the same way as me originally, when I realized I should have closed out though.

She says to me at each corner, don't you have to go that way, the second time I go yeah and I close out with a kiss on the cheek and a warm hug, she isn't expecting the kiss so I catch her on the upper cheek but she's down. The conversation dies down a bit in these two blocks, I suggest stopping for a drink in a nearby pub on the way to her friend's but she had already msg'd the friend, another error on my part. Anyway I throw in some pauses and she fills them w questions so it's all good I think.

I acted a bit needy possibly, because I was just bowled over at meeting such a cute and friendly woman with whom I could converse naturally and freely despite my limited grasp of the language, this never happens, I'm always stumbling and mishearing things and emcountering words I don't know... looking back I realize she did everything possible to make it a success, strong sign of investment compared with typical lazy person who would switch back to English at first hurdle.

Gonna go send some icebreakers. Then put my shirt in laundry nooster. Haha
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:13 pm

More goodness this morning.

I was having my regular 7.30~8.30am Wednesday playdate in the food court area (though that probably makes it sound grander than it is) of a local shopping centre near the school. We sit at tables while the kids run around and play, there's a fair bit of traffic to/from the supermarket, bakery, coffee shop... so I see some cute women heading in to the coffee shop and I'm heading that way myself, I think they've already ordered when I come in, and tall black hair checks me out as I walk to the counter. I get a stamp in my coffee card and then register lady calls tall black hair back for her coffee card, I grab it and pass it to her, establishing some eye contact and smiles. But I don't pursue it in the presence of her friend, I head back to our table. I'm taking a sip of my coffee, when we again check each other out and I give her a half smile. H'mm!!

So now fast forward to the school, well I've grown a pair and decided to approach Helga again come what may. It's a very happy festive atmosphere with everyone dressed up in international costumes. I get a little warmup chatting with school registrar about her clan tartan as we walk up to the office together, I then go to Helga's classroom planning to say "I couldn't resist the idea of coming to check out your costume, how have things been?" or similar... but it's locked up and deserted. I let my son have a play in the prep playground while I chat to another cute Finnish mum who I know, waiting to see if Helga will make an appearance but she doesn't.

As we wander down towards the stadium again for the international day parade, I see tall black hair again, I had not realized she's actually a teacher at the school (grade 3 as it turns out). Fuckin' game on! She's assembling her kids so I go over to talk with her, but before she notices me she scoots back inside her classroom to get something and so I continue on down. Fast forward to the assembly, well it takes a bit of time to get organized and while waiting I pre open her with an elbow touch and it goes like
Me: Didn't I see you in the shopping centre before?
Her: Yeah!
Me: I wanted to come and say hi, but you seemed busy with your friend. I didn't realize you're a teacher here.
Her: Yeah my friend is too, she's over there with her class. (Indicates far side of the stadium near Helga's class)
Me: I'm Raymond (I offer my hand and she takes it)
Her: Chloe.
Me: Do you always get coffee in the shopping centre before work?
Her: Yeah it's becoming a bad habit of mine, blah blah... we chat about coffee consumption, we both want to reduce it
Me: Wow you're looking very international, I like your costume... bit different to last time I saw you (smile)
Her: Yeah blah blah... we chat about the fact she's teaching grade 3, it's a good medium (they're a bit mature but still pretty playful)
Me: What do you think about working here?
Her: Oh yeah it's totally great, it's a real community feeling blah blah
Me: Yeah I've only had good experiences here, so you live in the local area? (I decide to check logistics)
Her: [An inner city suburb]
Me: Oh right, you're coming a bit of a way, what's the traffic like in the mornings?
Her: Oh no traffic, it's really good blah blah
Me: Yeah cool cos I'm house hunting nearby, I think it will be fine to do the school runs from there
Her: Oh right where are you looking?
Me: In the city actually, people ask how it will be with kids but I'm kinda enjoying the single lifestyle, want to party it up a bit
Her: Yeah cool [my suburb] is really good, there's lots of bars in [X] street and so on
Me: Yeah isn't [bar] in [X] street?
Her: Yeah that place is great, always makes me think of pirates (I think about it, yeah there is a kinda nautical theme)... do you go there a lot?
Me: Oh not lately, been going out in the city more... I don't really want to become a regular so I like to mix it up a bit
Her: Cool yeah...
Me: I can meet you in [bar] (smile)
Her: (she isn't expecting this but she's pretty much down) Yeah!
Me: Write down your number for me when you get a chance (I'm hoping she'll have a pen on her but apparently she doesn't... don't want to get my mobile out now)
Her: OK!
Me: I can be found in the shopping centre on Wednesdays from about 7:45am if I don't see you before then
Her: OK!
Me: blah blah... we continue talking about school related stuff, I ask her if the prep orientation was yesterday but she doesn't know. Then one of her kids needs her.
Me: Puts my hand on her upper arm and holds it while leaning in... I'll let you attend to your flock... exchange smile and EC, eject

Ha not bad, I like the ultra casual way I asked her out... this works well in social circle. Also I didn't push hard for the number cos basically a number close is meaningless, what matters is generating enough attraction to seal the deal... I'll see her again and see if I can keep it going. I never approached Helga (cock blocked again by my 4 year old having to go back for his shoes whilst we're on an intersecting trajectory), but if she checked me out across the stadium, as I think she has done in the past, she probably would have seen me talking to Chloe with smiles and touch, very smooth. Hopefully I can eventually get a reputation as the go-to for cute teachers hahahaha.

We then headed down to the zoo and I was redirected from zoo girl's line into another line... chick is totally cute, has a little nose ring, and there's some other staff member I've seen before in the booth.
Me: Hiya... big smile, EC... I had over my membership card and driving licence
Her: Hi, and who do we have here today?
Me: [my son's name, there's 2 other sons on the membership and for some reason they ask this every time]...
Her: (addresses him) hi there, what animals do you want to see today? she gives him a map
Me: So are you in training by any chance?
Her: Yeah! blah blah, she's sharing
Me: Smile, EC... I haven't seen you before. I see your name is Danny... I'm Raymond (we shake hands)
Her: blah blah, being polite
Me: I turn to the other lady... keeping an eye on things? (in a cheeky tone)
Other lady: yeah blah blah, she's sharing too
What I wish I had said: "Ohh well Danny, someone as cute as you is gonna need a lot of supervision or things could get out of hand ;)" OR... "Hey Danny I hope your training goes well, I'm happy to give you a workout any time I come in ;)"
What I actually said: Hey well I hope you have an absolutely wonderful day, see you soon... exchange smile and EC, eject

We go and sit down to eat some mango, I discreetly check out the ordinary ticket booth and zoo girl is there. So I think fuck it, grow a pair, and when we finish the mango, we go over to talk to her as well... (normally I don't want to make things awkward so I only talk to her when I have an excuse to do so)
Me: Hey there zoo girl... smile, exchange EC... we were admitted by a trainee today.
Her: oh and how did that go?
Me: Fine... (slight pause) she was cute, but not as cute as you. (smile... we are overheard by her colleague behind, but this is pretty tame so I think fuck it)
Her: hahaha so how are things?
Me: Oh not bad, it's just a short visit today cos we had some errands to do... what about you, what's new?
Her: Oh my partner and I are moving into a house in December, lots of changes afoot (haha now I've stepped up the directness she's disqualifying herself, I don't mind, she's cool)
Me: Oh that sounds like great news... smile
Her: Yeah haha must be growing up a bit, doing all that adult stuff!
Me: Ohh well I'm probably regressing in that regard, I'm actually doing the opposite, moving from a house to an apartment... cos I'm really enjoying the single lifestyle at the moment, want to party it up a bit... smile
Her: Ohh cool well let's just make a swap! haha
Me: So you're buying the house? Whereabouts? ... blah blah we chat about real estate and other stuff. I also ask her about her video work again and tell her she's a star.

The sexual tension is gone. But I still think it's cool to have made a friend. It's the first real proper conversation we've had, the others were good but pretty brief. I wasn't that excited about her anyway since I noticed her rings as I mentioned in a previous post. I'll just have to game that Danny when she's no longer under supervision haha.

Got home and made an offer on an apartment. So excited. Who wants to come to Melbourne and help me christen it with lots of random sex with Asian students? hahaha

Edit: I think I'm getting perceptibly more IOIs with my new bad-boy outfits, every FR lately has had some kind of girl checking me out it seems. This is fucking bad-ass!!! I think my attainability is better. Or it's just a kind of an image thing. I was looking pretty preppy before, kinda business attire with an edge or elegant casual... my normal attire I think is fine for places like a casino where you have to be a bit dressy, but for day-to-day and street game, I think more casual style is working a lot better for me.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby snipefield » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:16 am

Ray,
Really like the transition to the date from the interaction with the teacher. Smooth!
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:48 am

Thanks Snipefield I was hoping to get some feedback on latest. Funnily enough I had the feeling in the moment that she was kinda taking the convo in that direction as an escalation window so naturally I grabbed it. May have misread this since she seemed the tiniest bit surprised when I did, but maybe just surprised that her ploy actually worked? hahaha anyway lets hit those windows whenever and whereever possible :)

Another thing I forgot to add is I have been sharing that I'm enjoying the single lifestyle, if I can do it in a way that's relating to her (talking about the househunting or whatnot)... while this doesn't exactly say I'm single it at least strongly implies it, so despite the implication I might be playing around, it's still a bit of a -value/+attainability move, as Chase would put it. The reason I do this is because these women see me with my kids and will naturally assume I am unavailable particularly if I am high value. At least that is what I usually figure when I meet hot women in the playground, zoo etc. (I spoke to many at the zoo today, which again I put down to my more casual, attainable style).
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:37 pm

Okay so I've got my first slay which has been written up in FRs section, and I have gotten some gratifying feedback from the studs ;)

With this under my belt I was pretty fucking pumped to go to a trance festival the following day (actually had been planning to leave Thursday night but was too busy haha)... I don't really know what the trance scene is like in the USA but I know it's huge in Europe (I met people from Sweden, Germany, France, ... have been to festivals in Netherlands and other places)... if you know Burning Man festival then I guess this was kinda similar except shorter, just 4 nights (with the stages operational Fri/Sat).

So I decided to get in state by approaching women everywhere along the way, chatted up some cute festival goers in different country towns and had long chats with deli operators, fruit shop chicks, etc while getting shit sorted for the festival... got there and found a number of relatives and friends were there, and had saved a big space to make a mega camp well it was sick, but I was a little bit in two minds cos I was thinking of just setting up a really little anonymous camp somewhere to pull women to.

Anyway well I set up my camp etc, and got down to the doof in the early afternoon (local terminology... trance parties are doofs and this word can also refer to the dance floor)... had chatted to a German chick directing traffic and so forth... but when I got there I totally froze up, fuck it... couldn't approach. Well I felt a bit miserable but eventually locked eyes with some chick who held the eye contact, I was kinda heading her way already, so I lasered her while making my way over and introduced myself "Hi there... I'm Raymond and you?" well she's shaken my hand and then just smiled broadly and turned away and kept dancing, not ideal but I had my start! Fuck yeah!

From this point it got a little easier, I introduced myself to some other cute women, but TBH was not really feeling it, there was a tension between my eyes and I needed to loosen up a bit. So contrary to my normal philosophy I decided to get some alcohol on board, well I downed a massive Scotch and dry with my cousin (loaded with ice, it was like 40 degree heat out there)... as the alcoholic rush kicked in I just totally hit my stride, introduced myself to a shit ton of women, great reactions, lots of grinds etc.

I continued approaching and getting grinds until the evening hit, the fabulous thing about this first afternoon was the pre-selection, all the women I'd previously approached could plainly see me opening other women even hotter than them (I used exclusively direct tailored compliment), and getting great reactions. Pretty soon I'd approached like 90% of the people in my immediate vicinity (guys too), also started just grabbing women as they walked past and grinding with them as well, it was all good fun ;)

The problem with all this though, is that reactions != results... like I was having a really good time, but I was just doing my normal shotgun opening style that works well in clubs, so I wasn't really establishing deep connections with women... later I went to check out the market area, and this seemed to offer much better possibility for daygame style approaching, however, I did not really want to do this (or at least not too much), because I regard dancefloor approaches as more challenging, and I just fucking love the doof, I mean if you are going to a dance party and then just hanging out in the market to pick up girls in hot raver gear then why not just stay home...??

The other thing to consider is that I am a really good dancer, I mean I'm not trained or anything, but in freestyle I go fucking hard, because I really love it, I wear sick raver clothes that I've made myself and get a lot of compliments, so this works very well as a pre-opener, because when you are dancing you can pretty much go wherever you want on the DF and position yourself somewhere that a hot girl can see you, without appearing to have noticed her... and then when you approach her, you are golden.

Anyway so I eventually went to have a sleep (had got about 3hrs sleep after posting my LR and then getting up early to meet my trainer at the gym), headed back down in the evening and started to focus a bit more, I was still approaching women but I had to tell myself to (1) slow down and enjoy the party (2) look for IOIs, these were pretty abundant however (3) try to establish more of a connection with each woman. Anyway somebody I'll call Klara approached me, she called me by my brother's name initially but we quickly sorted it out, she is kinda oldish and not super cute, but has a hot, hard body and was down to grind, no coquettishness or fucking around, she seemed very into me. A voice in my head was saying "pull" but another voice was saying "bide your time... you're having fun... see what else the night will bring". In retrospect I hate this second voice, should have just taken her and fucked her then and there. This was to be a recurring theme and it's a massive sticking point for me.

Later Klara's fucked off for half an hour or so and I've begun grinding with an Indian fatty, lots of sexual tension, she seemed down to kiss me on the DF but I didn't go for it, should have. Where I've fucked up is when Klara's come back unexpectedly and seen me with the other chick, I felt a bit sorry for her and reached out to pat her on the arse, this has kinda set the cat among the pigeons and I've ended up with jack, IndianFatty: "Is that your girlfriend?" Me: "No!" blah blah, shouldn't have been defensive. Another problem was that IndianFatty was there with a male orbiter who then latched onto me for the rest of the weekend, he wants to go out with me this week. Hmmm. Why this was a problem, was that IndianFatty's behaviour was kinda subdued in his presence (reputation or whatnot), anyway window closed I think, didn't matter though.

So anyway I found this to be a bit of a downer, luckily my friends arrived soon after and we had a bit family circle going, so all good really, we went over to check out the main stage too (the music was slower and more hiphoppy on the main stage which is why all the serious hard core party freaks were hanging out at the stage closer to my camp). I did more approaches there, but I was getting tired again and becoming uncalibrated. I got one rude blowout when I tried the totally cute opener, but I have decided the totally cute opener is not appropriate to dance parties... it looks too aggressive/like hunting and the vibe of dance parties is meant to be very open/cooperative and comfortable... I also discovered my cousin is into PU, he was trying to teach me some moves etc, though TBH I felt I was probably working on my skillset a lot more consistently than him, anyway my cousin wants to go out with me to do PU later. I'm not sure if he's into daygame, he didn't mention it, maybe doesn't know about it?

I went to sleep for the rest of the night. Kinda wish I hadn't missed all the good music but I'm keeping in mind the advice on the main site (maybe from an article of Colt's) about when you go out, get plenty of rest and be on a solid foundation cos girls pick up on this stuff. Unfortunately I have sleep apnea and didn't have my sleep machine, so I really needed to get as much sleep as possible at doofs. I'm planning to buy an expensive attachment so I can run the sleep machine from battery (when I have time).

So more goodness the next day, once again I violated my rule and got completely shitfaced on alcohol, but this was not really a huge problem because I was practising a kind of Tucker Max style, basically just working on my IDGAF vibe and being self-amused... for example I've approached a hot chick down near the showers and said:
Me: Hi there, I love your cute outfit... you look fabulous
ChopsticksGirl: Ohh thank you (big smile... her hair is in a bun with chopsticks in it)
Me: You've even provided chopsticks, so I can eat you up (I smile warmly and quickly eject, but I speak to her again a few minutes later, just to prove that I can)
Me: Looks like a bit of a wait huh...
ChopsticksGirl: Yeah

A lot of this kind of shit went down, I cannot really remember it all now. The afternoon is a bit of a blur, I seem to remember trying to get grinds with women and getting a little frustrated when none of them were up for it, I think possibly they're more defensive on the second day because they've met all their friends and gotten into groups so there's reputation damage issues? I dunno really. Maybe I was just too drunk, but they were reacting to me fine in other respects apart from when I'd pull them in to me.

In the evening one of the headline acts was on (Shpongle) and although I thought the set was pretty crap (not hard enough except in the last half hour) everyone else was raving about it... anyway we attended in a huge family group and I spent the whole time with Klara, just feeling up her hot body, she had apparently forgiven me for the previous night's antics. I think my family was laughing at me a bit, maybe they do not really like her, but I think she's cool (and I never pay attention to other people's bullshit). Another woman I'd cold approached, whom I'll call Megan, was dancing beside us for most of the time, I was getting some preselection, even if Klara is older etc. Klara made friends with quite a few other groups of hot women as well throughout Shpongle's set, and this was a good sign, I didn't bother to introduce myself however.

The night however I turned into an approach machine, I was really getting in fine state and once again had approached about 90% of the women in my immediate vicinity (I started this project as it was getting dark, it was more difficult after it got fully dark but this is where things got interesting)... quite a few of them knew me already of course. So this shy little chick has approached me (I've seen her at doofs before and had given her some EC and smiles in the afternoon I think)... given me a hug and a big kiss and naturally I've pulled her in for a grind, this seemed to be going well until her friends pulled her away, I think they were concerned it could get heavy, hahaha but this didn't stop them all wanting a grind themselves, I was happy to oblige... pretty soon various other random women were included too. And then I was hit by a fucking whirlwind: Megan... she's come bouncing up to me, just grabbing me and hugging me and whispering huskily in my ear "I can't get enough of your energy..." she's then proceeded to kiss me with tongue for about 20 seconds before pulling away, I felt really pissed off that I didn't pull away first, taken by surprise I guess? Anyway so we've had a massive dance together, both of us were doing moves we'd never dreamed of... it was really exciting, in the state I was in there's no way I'd have considered pulling her off the DF (although I clearly should have) because I was just having too good a time, not because of Megan, but getting all the other validation too.

Later when things calmed down a bit and I moved to another part of the stage I opened someone I found really hot, a cute Japanese woman, everything about her was awesome, the way she was dressed, her sparkling eye makeup and so on... I think I first asked her for some of her drink and she's like really? are you sure?... It was fucking strong, something like Malibu and Coke... so after a brief conversation in Japanese I've tried to pull her off the DF "Let's go sit down somewhere so we can talk", grab her hand and try to pull her away (first attempted pull of the night and very belated) but did not succeed. I was probably not dominant enough. Fuck. I've gone off to get a beer by myself anyway, but re approached her later with a strong drink of my own... said to her "Tsuyoi aruko-ru de yowanakatta no?" ... "How is it you're not smashed from the strong alcohol??" and gotten a laugh as we've shared the Scotch and Dry, anyway I've continued to hit and run for a few hours just saying a bit of funny flirtatious shit here and there... Her: "Tomodachi o nakushita" "I've lost my friend..." Me: "Hitori de samishii ne" "Being by yourself is lonely isn't it..."... if I'd had better reactions I might have gone for the pull a second time, but basically it had become a bit chasey, she wasn't down for a grind and I was wasting my time with her. Shit. It was also a total shame because my Japanese friend who is very shy was hitting on the second chick and seemed to be burning it down, I was really happy for him, but then I gave him some sips of my drink, he doesn't handle alcohol very well, and he started getting totally smashed and uncalibrated, I felt extremely guilty and responsible.

Hmm so eventually I've gone off to the other stage, done some approaches along the way, met some interesting people at the other stage (another Japanese woman who was probably tripping on acid, at least not making a lot of sense, but happy for an introduction etc)... a really nice couple who were very kind and provided good feelings for me for the rest of the party, etc... I tried to pull a woman from the side of the doof to go for beer, but she wasn't down. (I think it was a re-approach but I cannot really remember, only that I was making an effort to move women at this stage). Once again I was getting tired and uncalibrated so I decided to call it a night, and went to sleep.

Couple of other notes, cannot really remember where they fitted in but I approached BlackAndWhiteGirl from a neighbouring campsite, she and I had a bit of a flirtatious thing going (I told her I liked her black and white style, she had like a black miniskirt and white see through top with a black bra underneath for a lot of the time)... she said she's here with her boyfriend so I used Mr.Rob's response "Oh yeah I've got a puppy at home too...(change the subject)"... she seemed to enjoy this dominance. I also pulled up my chair to a different neighbouring campsite and spoke to another cute woman, it seemed like it might be going somewhere but I never saw her after that. And while looking for my Japanese friend's campsite I approached a couple of women sitting down in their site, and invited myself to join their conversation for an hour or so.

The last day the vibe is always way more chilled and relaxed, everyone's tired but happy and defenses are down, however I have to be careful not to ruin the vibe by being too aggressive. People are starting to say to me stuff like "I saw you out there shooting the women last night..."... or another dude from our camp "How are the women going Ray?" and I'm like "Oh you'll have to ask them..."... I've also tried to hit on a couple of women we are camping with, the first time everyone's really assembled at the site and sitting down some introductions are made, so I immediately say to the hottest one "Hey Janie I love your cute outfit, you look great" (she does) in front of everyone and people are a bit like OMG Ray is totally shameless... hahaha well she had a boyfriend, and so I've switched my focus to another one, a cute (but plump) little thing, but after a while I discovered I did not really like her, the conversation was bullshit and she's sucking on this electronic joint the whole time. She also seems to have an orbiter, this guy is like one of the biggest dicks I've ever met, so fucking submissive and retarded, he kept trying to suck up to me all night with all this name dropping and approval seeking... older guy who obviously cannot get laid. He even rocked out a dress for the second half of the party, all gut and Y-fronts under it.

Anyway back to the last day, well I'm taking it a bit more chilled and spending a bit of time drinking and bonding at the campsite, but I go out and do more approaches on the main stage of course, a shit ton of approaches, get some good grinds, but I may be shooting above my pay grade, I open a lot of really hot women but I'm a bit intimidated to take it too much further. One woman is particularly funny, she asks where I'm from and I make her guess etc, then eventually I say I'm just Aussie and she's surprised, so I show her my hearing aids and explain that I'm deaf and deaf people speak with an accent (this is how I used to handle it before I got any game, here I just CBF gaming really)... she's mortified although I try to explain that it's cool, I don't mind discussing it... she then says "I'm training to be a speech pathologist so I should have known that etc"... she clearly feels very bad so I tell her it will cost her a kiss. She gives me a big kiss on the cheek in front of some other women I've opened. Haha. She's good for a grind, so I hit and run for the next hour or so, in between other approaches, I'm not really sure what happened to her after that, but she was pretty cool.

I also have a dance in a family group in the afternoon, I give CuteButPlumpElectronicJointGirl a grind and get told off by other site mates for apparently making her uncomfortable, WTF? If she's not up for it she's capable of saying so... Anyway we have a sick, sweet time, eventually I peel off to get into some more IDGAF antics... for instance I'm talking to ShortFreshIroningGirl who had rocked out an ironing board the previous day and pretended to iron everyone's clothes while dancing... she has amazing skin and eyes and looks like she's just got up, though she's apparently gone hard all night... she's having trouble with her spray bottle so I'm trying to help when IrishHotPantsGirl walks past so I reach out and spank her on the bottom... ShortFreshIroningGirl is shocked and immediately goes over to tell tales on me, I just gaze into the distance with a bored look and keep dancing... eventually she comes back and I tell her if she's really luck she can get one as well... (and later on, she does haha). Some GlitterChick who I've been playing around with a bit (not sure if we ever introduced each other by name), I grab her water bottle and tip it on her, but there's not much left... so I go to my backpack and rock out a 4 litre canister that I carry with me, and come up beside her, grab her hat and dump this on her as well, she loves it. I also approach Megan later on and ask for some of her water, whereupon I empty that on her head as well, she's also down (but from my viewpoint it's getting a bit stale).

Interestingly I am gaining a bit of a reputation with my IDGAF antics and the fact that I apparently know all these hot women around us, the kinds of guys who have options are basically just looking at me and chuckling a bit, saying things like "you sly dog you..." or implying it... the kinds of guys who don't have options are clearly believing that I must have the biggest social circle known to man (it's far out of their comprehension that I had just met all these women in the preceding hours/days) and are trying to get close to me to be part of it. I respond by doing stuff like convincing them to go shirtless, confiscate their shirts etc... I'm also shirtless for the first time, I wouldn't really say I look pumped, but I have nothing to be embarrassed about this days... I'm covered in glitter because GlitterChick has gone around putting great handfuls of it everywhere.

Umm so I'm having lots of fun and getting grinds but I'm still conscious that time is getting short and that reactions != results... music finishes that evening so I try a bit of market game, long story short well I get some interesting conversations with different Japanese women, but I'm too much of a nice guy (don't want to cut some Mexican dude's lunch) and I'm too submissive... fail to move them, miss windows, things go stale and they suddenly fuck off and so forth... really frustrated with myself. Oh well. One missed window, this cute Japanese chick says she wants some more music... I don't have any fucking clue where to get more music (I want more myself) but I know people are listening to music back at the camp, I don't really want to take her there so I say something really negative about it and shoot myself down, it appears I have no idea what I want from her. Should have said, let's go listen to some trance in my car. In retrospect, plausible deniability is still really important, even at trance parties.

The worst thing about above missed window is I decide to go off by myself to look for some trance and I fucking find some, there's an unofficial sound system not too far from my camp... I approach and say "hey nice doof you've got going here" and StringDressGirl says "hey! welcome aboard!!" and starts hugging me and kissing me and grinding me etc... She gives me some spinning lights on a string to play with and we keep this going for ages, I probably spend about 3 hours at this doof and meet various other members of their camp, pretty soon there's like 50 ppl there, mostly just sitting and chilling but there's some amazing hoop action from HoopGirl (she tells me the next day that her hoop cost $400 from the United States, it looks absolutely fucking incredible, all spinning lights and flashing different colours as she spins it)... I get on fucking fabulously with StringDressGirl (she looks absolutely stunning, blonde hair, some bindi's and stuff on her face and various glitter and other makeup, she's wearing only a pair of black lace panties under string dress, I joke that she has air conditioning and get some laughs)... my hands are all over her body. I get a bit of leadership in when I pull her out of her social circle and make her come and dance with me, however, I then proceed to miss windows and fuck myself up, same story as always: I'm having fun, I don't want it to end, I know intellectually that the clock is ticking, but I don't feel it, and then when she fucks off with some guy from her site I'm left with my dick in my hand feeling disappointed. I have the best conversations I've had the whole party with her, we really connect (but maybe I wasn't mysterious enough).

I'm feeling a bit tired, and depressed about StringDressGirl disaster, I'm over invested so I know that if I do see her again I'm likely to do something uncalibrated and fuck it up. For that reason I go off and have a sleep, I'm planning to set an alarm for in an hour and then go out to do some more approaching, but my phone battery is flat. So I just go to sleep until dawn. Fuck it. Whatevs. When I get up again, I have a shower, and I rock out another good outfit and go to check things out, and I see HoopGirl and some of the others but I'm not really in the mood to converse. So I just grab my backpack and water and continue on. There's not much happening at this time, I do a few half-hearted approaches on the road to the market but nobody hot. I get a little solid flirting in with the girl who makes the breakfast wraps. She's also a raver and she remembered me from the doof and the outfit I was wearing (IOI!!). I had opened by saying I remembered her from the previous party and I'd admired how she handled the breakfast rush, juggling a hundred balls in the air it looked like. (Previous night I'd also gotten some solid flirting and a kiss with the girl who takes the money for icecream).

Yeah so my party is winding down a bit, I don't see any strong possibility of pulling women back to my tent at this point so I pack it up and clean up the site (everyone else is sleeping). I see StringDressGirl while I'm shooting the fat with an Austrian neighbour (we are gonna meet up this week for drinks with my cousins etc)... so I tell Austrian dude I'm gonna go number close that girl, and from the top of the hill I can actually see her waiting outside the toilets for her friend, perfect for a discreet number close (though I believe she probably hates me now for missing windows, it's still worth a shot)... but alas, when I get down the hill she's nowhere to be seen. So I take a dump. I approach some other women (oldish or whatever) on the way back to the market, have a long conversation with HoopGirl, have a coffee etc and then I pack it in. Bye bye!

My sticking points this outing were
- Being too in the moment, having fun and forgetting to game the women
- Seeking reactions instead of results
- Not establishing enough of a connection with women before going for the pull
- Too hesitant on pulling women from the DF (if I don't really want to go away, why would they?)
- Missing windows, not using plausible deniability
- Getting shitfaced on alcohol (I forgot to mention that 1-2hrs before meeting StringDressGirl, I was really feeling it, and had to go to the coffee shop to sober up, nearly fell asleep there, although I eventually had some good conversations and succeeded in getting some investment... anyway I think my game was off due to the alcohol).

I would highly recommend dance parties as a place to hone your game. Very forgiving environment. All the advantages of club and social circle, and no disadvantages. I'm defo gonna get a ticket for the next big festival (as long as it falls on a not-kids weekend). And this time I'm gonna get myself a lay. I'll hone my game in the meantime.

Edit: My whole body hurts. Haha.
ray_zorse

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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:36 pm

IndianFatty is now texting me. This is hilarious. Here we go...
Mon 21:52 Her: Hi whose number is this?
Mon 21:53 Her: I got this number from [orbiter] ..
Tue 12:19 Me: Is this IndianFatty perchance ;)
Tue 13:12 Her: Nope this is not IndianFatty.. This is a girl u came to c in the morning before leaving [festival]... I really hope that I'm talking to the right person ... Well it will be good if you give me your FB ID so that I could add you and we both know who we are talking to..

Oh fuck, I'm laughing so hard now... (I obviously misheard her name but it's her)... perhaps I will have her meet me sometime soon and nail her, might have to inquire as to her logistics first... what is even funnier is that [orbiter] was very keen to hang out with me, conversation went like this
Orbiter: Hey man do you have Facebook
Me: Nah I don't use Facebook but we can get in touch if u want
Orbiter: Yeah lets do that
Me: Oh yeah let's just sort it out in the morning
Orbiter: (goes and gets a pen)
Orbiter: So what's your mobile number
Me: (writes it on his arm... it's totally dark and degenerates into an illegible scrawl... I lift his arm into the light and make various corrections... he repeats it back to me several times)

It just doesn't get any funnier than this... he has now sent me quite a few messages about various shit... anyway I had seen IndianFatty packing up her tent as I was driving out of the festival and jumped out, gave her a kiss, told her it was fun hanging out with her and she was cool... and that I'd swapped numbers with [orbiter] and she should come and hang with us or some similar shit... I had no idea she would be chasing ;)
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:58 pm

More goodness from IndianFatty...
Tue 14:34 Me: hey u are talking to the right person :) Raymond :) obviously i had misheard your name due to the loud music when we introduced ourselves... so u got home safely, how do u feel? my whole body hurts hahaha
Tue 15:14 Her: Yep safe and sound... But worse come down ever ... I feel so sick at the moment... I have been throwing up,.. Just been in bed since yday ... Hey do u reckon u can send me your pic for me to remember who u are... Sorry I have been pretty fried at [festival] :P
Tue 15:15 Her: This is me anyways...couldn't get the best, at this stage.. I'm pretty fried ... Can't smile even :(
Tue 15:23 Me: hahaha i just had a door-to-door salesman take a picture 4 u, this is how i look now. im about to rock out a shirt and head into city for class, where ru located? cheer up :)
Tue 15:25 Her: Hahaha I remember this face ... I live in [place]... Where do u live
Tue 15:51 Me: near u.. how about ill call in after class, see if i can't bring a smile to that pretty face...do u feel up to it? no need to be shy ive had bad comedowns b4
Tue 15:53 Her: No lovely I'm not in the mood at the moment,. Plus I start work at 5, so I really can't catch up ... Will text you when i have got the day off... But you dint tell me... Where do u live??

I follow my normal philosophy of not sending the last text of the conversation. Leave her hanging. Besides I don't want to submit to her questioning.

It's official, I now have killer logistics ;) I'll be moving in 2 weeks. I also chatted up a cute receptionist in the realtor's office, although I notice my conversation is regressing a bit, instead of just relating I'm sharing too much about myself and possibly going off on tangents she's not that interested in. Anyway, she did not seem to mind. I noticed a definite IOI as I walked in the door in a killer white outfit before she quickly composed herself, but for some reason I decided not to burn it down and I was really just being friendly, not going for the #.

I was a bit late for JP class as realtor was a time waster and traffic was terrible but it did not matter as I'd called ahead to explain I might be late. Complimented the teacher as I usually do. Didn't get a chance to speak with the tall hot one except hi.

After class I noticed several unbelievably hot Asian beauties who were ripe for an approach, also got some other IOIs, but I was a bit frozen and also had to hurry back to the car. Instead of moving the car and returning to do cold approach I chickened out. Oh well. Actually there was a time pressure and I had a messy house and car, but still, I wussed out. Hmm.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:06 pm

Morning of kids day... no teacher action this time but I caught up with my mistress Sam (we are going to an Xmas party to drink tonight, she said I can pick up other girls if I want but I told her as far as I was concerned it was a date and I wouldn't be that much of a c--t). Spoke to a not hot but friendly mum I know, and used touch which is my latest project in the school scene. Then I approached another mum who I have a bit of a crush on, I wanted to compliment her on her cute floral dress, but I remembered I recently complimented her on her red duffel coat so I worried it might sound insincere. Instead I walked her up to the office (she is also a school receptionist) and applied some touch and casual flattery about her talented children (one of whom has a disability and is integrated here).

At the Aquarium with my 4 year old I just directly approached SpanishGirl even though she wasn't actually working any register, conversation went like this
Me: hi there SpanishGirl, how are you?
Her: fine/whatever (can't remember)
Me: my son would like another stamp booklet...oh hey he's found them already
Her: do you have your membership card with you?
Me: oh nah I'll have to give you this (my license)
Her: okay! come over here (she opens up a register over the other side of the room)
Me: yeah I've been carrying my zoo card more lately but I don't know where our Aquarium cards are
Her: it's okay!
Me: I had a feeling you would be here SpanishGirl, because you work very hard! Are you saving for a trip or something?
Her: oh not really but I'm always a hard worker!
(I notice we are momentarily alone, so I burn it down)
Me: Tell me something SpanishGirl (I attempt to make strong eye contact but chicken out and look at her lips, a bad habit of mine since I read lips)... would you like to go for a coffee sometime, so we could get to know each other better?
Her: (looks down) Oh actually I'm in a relationship
Me: oh yeah that's cool, well I always enjoy talking with you when we come in
Her: yeah (she looks a bit embarrassed but not unhappy)
Me: okay see you!

Well that was beta as hell, I didn't get any real flirting in, didn't get any investment from her in the conversation, so didn't ask her out on a high point, and asked her in a timid beta way that invited her to say no. Lately when I go for the number I say "Let's go do X! Write your number down for me.", just straight compliance and pretty alpha. I'm tired and my game is off. But I'm still better than 95% of other men, because I did try!!!

I do better with IndianBaristaChick upstairs in the cafe.
Me: hi there, how are you today?
Her: fine/whatever (can't remember)
Me: we'll have a coffee, one of these, and the icypole... can I just say that you have amazing eyelashes? (she really does)
Her: oh thank you! (she is shy but happy)
Me: pays...we'll just come back in a minute (her colleague is back so I decide to be discreet)
...
Me: oh perfect timing... thanks... oh you also did me a flower?
Her: (shy smile) yeah
Me: awesome looks like a great coffee... see you next time (smile, eject)

some old fatty was hanging around when I went to get my coffee so I didn't push hard, actually was just being friendly... what I wanted to say "I remember talking to you last time, didn't you say you just finished your studies... business I think it was... or hospitality...?"... or a chase frame "do you do a flower for all the guys, or only those you are chatting up?"

This was still a bit beta but much better. I also helped a German tourist, etc, nothing all that noteworthy though.

Have dropped my son off but too tired for cold approach in the shopping centre... cleaned till 1am, read till 2.30am, got up at 6.15am... very bad, need to get things in control.
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Re: A ray of light in the darkness

Postby ray_zorse » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:45 pm

Did some solid approaching in the local shopping centre today, took me a long time to get out of my head and only one real conversation of note (chitchat about Xmas shopping, she was hot and friendly and I maybe ejected too early as I was getting anxious)... some fun convo's with shop assistants.
Me: hi there how's your day going
Her: good what about you
Me: oh not bad..so you busy today? lots of ppl buying Xmas presents I expect
Her: yeah starting to get that way
Me: not just selfish people like me! (cheeky grin, I indicate my book, a thriller chosen for me by a fatty I approached in the store)
Her: haha I would go the selfish option, I love a good read
Me: I can think of situations where you would be (pause) very... unselfish! (sexual smirk, hold strong eye contact)
Her: (thinks about this as I laser her) oh! chuckles a bit as she gets it
I continue to buy the book and say bye, smile, see you

If only I could tap this IDGAF style anytime...

While writing this FR I saw a HB9 and hurried out of the coffee shop to open her. She spared me half a glance and then ignored me. Ouch. Hahahaha
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