Can y’all help me past this sticking point!?

Sub-Zero

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WTH am I doing wrong? I can’t get past this sticking point; I can get girls to give me their numbers and comply easy, but when it comes to a date, it just ain’t happening, I only get dates from very interested girls and ones that I pretty much fuck the first night, these girls pretty much tell me they want to fuck so it’s pretty normal to do so.

I’ve pretty much read the “girls taking you seriously” article countless times and do what it says.

But I’m trying to figure out how to get more women, this shit is nerve wracking, having a girl all on you, texting calling you, approaching you, etc. but when it’s time to put up or shut up they’re a whole different person.

I make sure not to tell too much about myself, I don’t text them all day, only to set up dates, I literally read a fucking article right before I do something to make sure I do everything right.

I try to move fast as I can, then some bullshit happens with the girl and we don’t date.

I have girls talking about they want to suck my dick and have my kids, straight up change on me the very next day.

Wtf!

That is my sticking point, getting dates from girls consistently, I have had more girls come over to fuck then girls I took on dates haha. Thing is, how often will girls make it easy for you? That’s why we have this site, I’m trying to get girls very interested in me and girls that are not, so I can have them all!

I can have all the girls approach me and all the matches in the world, but if I can’t even get them out, it makes me feel bad.

I want to go on dates and get experience, I want to learn how to maneuver through the dating dance that way I’ll be good with any date.

I’m trying so hard not to give up and quit.

It’s mind boggling and this has been going on for ever!
 

DarkKnight

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Sub-Zero

I'm going to make a big assumption since I have usually seen your posts about being online.

These girls are from online are they not? Tons of girls who are chronically on dating apps are nothing but attention whores. Some of them are not even as single as they make themselves to be. If they keep refusing to date or make something happen you need to take a hint.

Some guys, have great succes with online game, I am NOT one of them. Either tweak your online game or put your focus more on real girls that you interact with outside.
Because it is easy to attribute this to bad luck or something like that, but I think your main culprit is attention seekers. Yesterday a girl right in front of me was taking 10 minutes for the perfect instagram picture and really it looked as if she was seeking an injection of heroin or something. Online apps are full with these people.
 

Sub-Zero

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I just started online dating a few weeks ago, but yeah them too. I’m talking about all kinds of girls from day game, night game, social circle. Its bugging me because it has happened a lot, even when I was younger girls would say all these sexual things and talk all this sex shit, but when it comes time to show up, it’s a whole different person. I’m like, I just talked to yo ass yesterday and you said you wanted to go out. I know girls change they mind, but damn.

It’s like something gotta give, I’m getting all these matches, but shit is going nowhere, I should have fucked at least 50 chicks by now haha.
 

fog

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for me, i was able to get online girls out on dates with reliable consistency after i developed a routine that all girls who found me high value responded the exact same to.

you should brush up on your game concepts and then do the same. itll enhance your learning curve. you likely have all sorts of little things that need to be fixed, but your convos are all random and its hard to gauge any patterns in the way that girls respond to you

or you could just add me on facebook and send me screenshots of convos you have going on currently. ill tell you what to say and guide you.

im also willing to login to your tinder and get dates for you.

do you know how to set frames? maybe try experimenting with setting a strong relationship frame right from the start, see how that goes.
 

Sub-Zero

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Hey Fog,

My convos are pretty much the same.

I open them with something I like, their smile, lips, etc.

They usually work for me.

After that they say aww, then I ask them quick questions about themselves like how long they lived out here, are they from here?

After like 2-4 messages, I propose we meet up for a coffee or drink and they give me their number.

I even tried your opener with “what are you looking for” it worked well, but I lost a lot of girls because I guess it comes off like I’m trying to fuck, but to me, it does make things easier to know where they stand.

I sometimes call them to see if I like their energy and to make them more likely to meet up once they see I’m a cool dude.

Then they just start acting hella weird when it comes to meet up, they say their down, but then they just on some bullshit.

This is with like every girl so far, so it’s something I'm quite not getting. I make sure to set the date up ASAP, I make sure to keep convos short and I pick easy dates.

It’s like they just straight up change up, but I don’t know what to do. I try to talk more on the phone to make things easier, and these girls no nothing about me.

So I assume they are talking about me off pure attraction because I have no bios, just pics and they don’t nothing about me.

It’s weird man, I don’t give them attention and I make sure to make everything lead up to a date.

A relationship frame as in what exactly? Like boyfriend? Seems counterproductive.

I know these girls are attracted to me and know I’m not a platonic dude, so I think they know I want them sexually.

So what’s your routine? What would you do differently with what I told you?
 

fog

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im gonna ramble cuz im really high

so it sounds like youre opening and transitioning to some basic screens, maybe a little bit of rapport building. and then when you feel shes gonna be receptive to it, you close and give her your number.

other options besides the basic screens that you could use are

1. qualify her
2. get her to qualify to you
3. banter
4. sexualize the convo
5. rapport

you could transition from your opener into some of those and see if they make a difference.

so yes you used the super heavy screen "what are u looking for" which only leaves you with the DTF chicks. but you can also do a heavy screen which would leave you with only the relationship girls. something like "how long was ur last relationship?" or "have u ever dated an older guy?"

if you use those heavy relationship screens, girls will put you in the boyfriend zone and assume youre down for something longer than a hookup. do you successfully get girls out on dates when you do this type of screen?

well if you do, that'd be pretty cool but not ideal cuz ur probably not looking for a relationship. so youd have to come up with less heavy, but still flirty and suggestive screens that will set a frame thats right in the middle of hookup and relationship, that will get you the largest chunk of girls. think about how youre framing things!

anyways sometimes you call them to build more investment, sometimes you dont. are girls more likely to hang around after you call them and get more investment from them? or do they still get weird?

you never mentioned what you do when you are texting them after you get their #.

anyways what i found worked for me was

open-get her to qualify to me-qualify her aggressively-close

heres what it looks like. my sequence after the open is a false disqualification routine:
fog: ur adorable
girl: thanks ur pretty hot yourself
fog: are you actually 22 tho?
girl: yes...
fog: gosh ur young
girl: its not that bad, we're only 5 years apart. plus i like older guys
fog: hmmmm well...i guess i can let ur age slide for now. are u an open minded gal?
girl: yes i am very open minded
fog: i only surround myself with open minded people. if u werent i would have jumped off a bridge. can you give me an example of how ur open minded?
girl: that's the only way to be.
girl: yes well blablal investing lots lahlalvlablabla
fog: wow that's awesome darling! we should get together and see if we'll get along.
girl: ya im down!

literally goes that way every single time, and had no problems with it whenever I used it
 

Mr.Rob

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Maybe try not getting those overtly sexual interactions until your 100% sure your gonna close right then and there. When you get very sexual like that and then have to set up a date it kills all the mystery and tension and girls know exactly what comes next. You'll see a big drop off rate with that.

Try to keep interactions chill and flirtatious. Drop the overtly sexual stuff. If girls are just volunteering it without any prompting try meeting a different demographic of women and see if it keeps happening (perhaps its just me but I feel like you target hood rat types of chicks).
 

Mr.Rob

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Maybe try not getting those overtly sexual interactions until your 100% sure your gonna close right then and there. When you get very sexual like that and then have to set up a date it kills all the mystery and tension and girls know exactly what comes next. You'll see a big drop off rate with that.

Try to keep interactions chill and flirtatious. Drop the overtly sexual stuff. If girls are just volunteering it without any prompting try meeting a different demographic of women and see if it keeps happening (perhaps its just me but I feel like you target hood rat types of chicks)...

Also if your getting most your numbers from nightgame your bound to have a very high drop off rate unless your game is ultra tight.
 

ElderPrice

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Your post was a little hard to follow for me. So what are you saying your problem is? You can easily get numbers but then they just don't come out on dates with you? What dates are you proposing? Coffee? Drinks?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried asking these girls out on something OTHER THAN a date? Something like "Hey my friends and I are going hiking, want to join?" Or "Hey I'm going shopping today at ABC mall. Want to tag along?"

If you try these and they say agree, it could be your date ideas, or your frame that we are totally meeting on an official DATE are what's killing you. Maybe every guy these girls meet tries the coffee --> pull routine on them and they are incredibly bored and over it? Who knows. Try asking them out for something that sounds like friends-territory rather than a date and see what happens.

That's at least what I'd try, and what I'm actually working on myself at the moment.
 

fog

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ElderPrice said:
Your post was a little hard to follow for me.

same man, i thought i was the only one. sub has a habit of this though. makes it hard to help especially without convos
 

Sub-Zero

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fog said:
ElderPrice said:
Your post was a little hard to follow for me.

same man, i thought i was the only one. sub has a habit of this though. makes it hard to help especially without convos
ElderPrice said:
Your post was a little hard to follow for me. So what are you saying your problem is? You can easily get numbers but then they just don't come out on dates with you? What dates are you proposing? Coffee? Drinks?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried asking these girls out on something OTHER THAN a date? Something like "Hey my friends and I are going hiking, want to join?" Or "Hey I'm going shopping today at ABC mall. Want to tag along?"

If you try these and they say agree, it could be your date ideas, or your frame that we are totally meeting on an official DATE are what's killing you. Maybe every guy these girls meet tries the coffee --> pull routine on them and they are incredibly bored and over it? Who knows. Try asking them out for something that sounds like friends-territory rather than a date and see what happens.

That's at least what I'd try, and what I'm actually working on myself at the moment.

My bad for making shit hard to follow, I’m very paranoid a bitch might find this site, but my convos are basic enough they are pretty much the same.
 

Sub-Zero

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ElderPrice said:
Your post was a little hard to follow for me. So what are you saying your problem is? You can easily get numbers but then they just don't come out on dates with you? What dates are you proposing? Coffee? Drinks?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried asking these girls out on something OTHER THAN a date? Something like "Hey my friends and I are going hiking, want to join?" Or "Hey I'm going shopping today at ABC mall. Want to tag along?"

If you try these and they say agree, it could be your date ideas, or your frame that we are totally meeting on an official DATE are what's killing you. Maybe every guy these girls meet tries the coffee --> pull routine on them and they are incredibly bored and over it? Who knows. Try asking them out for something that sounds like friends-territory rather than a date and see what happens.

That's at least what I'd try, and what I'm actually working on myself at the moment.


My problem is getting girls to come out, doesn’t matter online or offline, I am proposing coffee and drinks. What you said in the first sentence is exactly what’s happening. I’ll try out the friendly date ideas.
 

Sub-Zero

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Mr.Rob said:
Maybe try not getting those overtly sexual interactions until your 100% sure your gonna close right then and there. When you get very sexual like that and then have to set up a date it kills all the mystery and tension and girls know exactly what comes next. You'll see a big drop off rate with that.

Try to keep interactions chill and flirtatious. Drop the overtly sexual stuff. If girls are just volunteering it without any prompting try meeting a different demographic of women and see if it keeps happening (perhaps its just me but I feel like you target hood rat types of chicks).

Nah I meant these girls are on me in person hard, I try not to escalate because there’s no point if I can’t bring them somewhere. I try to get them out later and they act like a whole new person that wasn’t sweating me. These girls are giving me all these compliments and feeling on me n shit and then when it’s put up or shut up, they change.

I try to avoid hood rats, my girls lately have been black and educated, doesn’t mean they aren’t hood rats, I guess.

But wouldn’t hood rats be more about fuckin tho?

These bitches are a headache man, I can see why people hate them, but I love pussy too much to go my own way.
 

Sub-Zero

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fog said:
im gonna ramble cuz im really high

so it sounds like youre opening and transitioning to some basic screens, maybe a little bit of rapport building. and then when you feel shes gonna be receptive to it, you close and give her your number.

other options besides the basic screens that you could use are

1. qualify her
2. get her to qualify to you
3. banter
4. sexualize the convo
5. rapport

you could transition from your opener into some of those and see if they make a difference.

so yes you used the super heavy screen "what are u looking for" which only leaves you with the DTF chicks. but you can also do a heavy screen which would leave you with only the relationship girls. something like "how long was ur last relationship?" or "have u ever dated an older guy?"

if you use those heavy relationship screens, girls will put you in the boyfriend zone and assume youre down for something longer than a hookup. do you successfully get girls out on dates when you do this type of screen?

well if you do, that'd be pretty cool but not ideal cuz ur probably not looking for a relationship. so youd have to come up with less heavy, but still flirty and suggestive screens that will set a frame thats right in the middle of hookup and relationship, that will get you the largest chunk of girls. think about how youre framing things!

anyways sometimes you call them to build more investment, sometimes you dont. are girls more likely to hang around after you call them and get more investment from them? or do they still get weird?

you never mentioned what you do when you are texting them after you get their #.

anyways what i found worked for me was

open-get her to qualify to me-qualify her aggressively-close

heres what it looks like. my sequence after the open is a false disqualification routine:
fog: ur adorable
girl: thanks ur pretty hot yourself
fog: are you actually 22 tho?
girl: yes...
fog: gosh ur young
girl: its not that bad, we're only 5 years apart. plus i like older guys
fog: hmmmm well...i guess i can let ur age slide for now. are u an open minded gal?
girl: yes i am very open minded
fog: i only surround myself with open minded people. if u werent i would have jumped off a bridge. can you give me an example of how ur open minded?
girl: that's the only way to be.
girl: yes well blablal investing lots lahlalvlablabla
fog: wow that's awesome darling! we should get together and see if we'll get along.
girl: ya im down!

literally goes that way every single time, and had no problems with it whenever I used it

The convos are really short, like where they’re from, etc. after those few questions I get on the phone for a little and we talk more about her. Like her life n shit, what she does, where she lives, what’s she looking for, etc.

Then I set the date up.

I only recently started the calling thing because I just started doing online, if it was mostly in person I might just stick with text.

I appreciate the advice man, I’ll try to follow those examples.
 

Sub-Zero

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Thank you all for the replies! I really appreciate them! If I ever confuse you tell me! I’m glad this thread got some traction because this is a sticking point I’ve always dealt with even as a teen.
 

Mr.Rob

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Try Daygame instead (I assume your not having girls grind on you and feel you up doing daygame). Nightgame/clubs are always going to have the problem of flakes from girls that were into you in the moment and your gonna keep bangin your head against the wall. There is a way to get club numbers to not flake but it involves building a deep connection and requires a lot of attraction (as in bambi eyes type attraction not her grinding on you telling you how she's gonna fuck u).

Do daygame and see if you can get past the issue.

Also protip for writing a post that is easy for ppl to help you on is your posts are always super emotional "I need help NOW with this huge problem! You've got to help me Im so desperate for answers! [fill in emotional rant]"

Instead try writing your post as you would then save the draft and come back the next day and write a very clear and concise post where ppl dont have to try and interpret what you are getting at. Highlight the exact problem your having, what you've tried to counteract the issue, and exactly what you need help with. Plus then you wont always come across as the overly emotional guy in desperate need and you'll be seen more as the cool and collected guy who just needs some insight.
 

Sub-Zero

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Hey Rob, some girls have done the same to me with day game as well, I don’t do it the most, but when I did I dealt with the same shit.

After all these years I guess I should make day game the 100% focus instead of the less out of the 3.

You’re right tho, I’m an emotional fuck, might have to take meds, don’t want to get addicted to anything tho. I’m not crazy or anything, but I let my emotions show too much, I guess it’s a coping mechanism for shit I go through.

I have always been dealing with bullshit, feel like everything’s against me since birth, no matter where I try to improve I deal with unnecessary bullshit most people don’t.

Anyway, yes, I’m going to try to work to be more of a cold person because I feel I’m too emotional even if I try to be a cool person. I’m going to try to shed all emotion and not care because I get emotional over many things.

I take women too seriously and I’m starting to legit hate them and have become very jaded.

Just had an embarrassing dating experience recently, so I’m thinking I might take another dating hiatus or something.

Thanks for the advice Rob, I’ll try to chill out.
 

Mr.Rob

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Your already pretty cold to begin with I dont think you need to be more cold. If anything you could use some warmth, forgiveness (towards women that is), and joy in your life. Shit you know Im in an equally fucked situation but I'm still quite warm and joyful. But not every guys wants to be that guy, some guys want to be the dark tormented soul and it can be used effectively to get girls but well there's no joy.

Skip the meds its just a mental habit you have to break. How does the ideal man you'd want to be respond to situations? Denzel Washington or John Wayne don't get all emotionally flustered they just take responsibility for it and go "well shit, lets figure this out" cool and collected.

It just takes awareness mostly and proactively forcing new behavior until its habituated. If u change your diet and do meditation it will make it X100 times easier to do tho.
 

Sub-Zero

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I try to be a warm guy I do, but it seems I can’t be with these women. Just had a crazy dating experience I never had before and I liked this girl a lot and let things slide when I would cut off or curse her out back in the day. Anyway I didn’t tell her how I felt or any validation, she has played the most games with me, when I had nothing but good thoughts about her.

This happens a lot with girls I like, they just assholes. That’s why it’s hard for me to be warm, it’s like a weakness they sense, if you show you are a decent guy who doesn’t curse her out or tell her you just want to fuck, she perceives you as weak. It’s like an extreme, you’re either a nice guy or you’re a asshole, but you are on the whole other side of both sides.

Anyway to the point, that’s why I figure I might as well be cold because being warm seems to always lead to a girl who thinks she can toy with me, I had the worse dating experience of my life because of my warmness.

I’m glad you’re able to stay warm all throughout the bullshit. I don’t wanna be a mean guy, but it seems girls don’t respect Anything unless I tell them I just want to fuck and that’s it. These chicks aren’t hood rats or anything they’re college educated and act well enough. I feel sometimes the advice here is too nice for me to use for these women sometimes. Idk.

Yeah I don’t wanna be on meds either. I’ll try to write more and just in general be more calm with everything.

Right now I’m still fuming over what this girl just did to me after she lied to me and lead me on. I have done mediation before, but my mind had too many bad thoughts I had to stop. I try to eat healthy, but I’m inconsistent, I’m working on that as well.

Appreciate the reply man. Having a decent amount of replies and support from my fellow seducers helps calm me down with this dating shit.
 

Mr.Rob

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but it seems girls don’t respect Anything unless I tell them I just want to fuck and that’s it.

Wow Id love to hear your convo's if thats the case. Its very interesting how much girls are out to get you I cant say I relate to that.

Idk man Im pretty nice (but command respect with my presence) and am just firm when a girl tests me in not looking like a weako. So I kinda do both.

I cant relate to the "battle frame" well of defeating the evil enemy hah, maybe were just talking to different girls.

So give a few examples of girls "being assholes" or playing games with you. I never run into this as a problem like ever really so Id be curious to hear your exact experiences.
 
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