ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?



Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:23 pm

ThePhoenix wrote:Iʼm thinking you have a limiting belief, in which you equate dominance with popularity, attention, and/or physical toughness — which is a bad conceptualization for someone who is not naturally extroverted.

Maybe POTUS wasnʼt the best example, but another might be a mafia boss. Well, he does get attention too, but Iʼm more interested in his behaviour, not his popularity or the attention heʼs getting. Think about how he acts. He can just speak one word and youʼre dead. Do you think he raises his voice and acts rowdy? He doesnʼt need to. The loud drunk is the way he is because he has nothing else. In a way, heʼs insecure; not like the mafia boss at all.

Dominance means you get your way.

A practical example of dominance would be when Seppuku gets up on a date and simply tells the girl theyʼre going to go listen to some music. Here he is not even asking her, he is simply directing her to do as he pleases. She is, of course, free to refuse, but his behaviour simply assumes that she wonʼt, because he is so used to getting his way with women. That is dominance.

Phoenix

Thank you again for your thoughts! Regarding day game, yes, I'm continuing to look for better venues. There's a big mall in the middle of town I haven't gamed at yet. It's next on the list. Perhaps next weekend.

Regarding the conversation on dominance, I know what you mean. You can be cool, collected, and dominant. I'm just not understanding how that applies to a social situation. Like, what am I supposed to do based on that concept? The mafia boss ALSO has a lot of social proof. He has a whole entourage with him. He has people to give the "kill that guy" command to. What would an aspiring seducer of women who goes out alone do with this? If I chill by myself, it doesn't matter how cool or chill I look... nobody approaches or gives approach invitations. I'm actually sort of convinced I have a natural vibe that for some reason repels people rather than attracts them. Meanwhile, the guys that command attention are loud and are seeking the spotlight, rather than playing it cool. And if the idea is YOU have to do the approaching and NOT sit and chill to the side and do nothing, the louder/tougher guy is going to command attention. And if you're not loud/tough, you're not. At least this is where I'm not understand how your point relates to what me or someone in my position is supposed to do. Does that make sense?

Thanks again!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:54 pm

4/5/19 Possible Epiphany.

In my efforts to try and figure out what's messed up with my vibe, I've of course been reading articles and watching videos on the subject. In a couple RSD videos, they touch on a subject that I hadn't consciously noticed, but makes sense when I think about it. I'm sure a similar idea is mentioned here on GC. That idea is the one of giving vs. taking. The RSD videos speak of it as coping vs thriving.

The gist of it is, generally speaking, when you're not doing well, it's because you're taking. In a social context that would mean showing up to a social event and working to only consciously fulfill your needs or desires. Not necessarily in a rude or offensive way. In a way like, you go to a party to meet your friend's friends, as opposed to you bringing your own friends for your friend to meet.

When you are doing well, it's because you're giving. You socialize with the conscious goal to 'give' some sort of value to others. Something like making introductions, showing someone a good time, or just doing whatever to increase the energy of the event.

I hadn't really thought of all this in this paradigm before. When doing so, it seems to make sense. When I'm going out to meet new people or to meet girls, it's because I'm trying to add to my life. When I go out and get bored, it's because nothing is particularly happening to fulfill my desires (to meet people or meet girls). I don't think I can recall the last time I did something socially with the goal to help someone ELSE.

With this new understanding, I'm excited to try going to a venue and trying to GIVE to everyone there rather than take. The only holdup is I'm having a hard time understanding how to do this socially! How exactly do you add to the energy? How do you make someone else's night? How do you approach new people with the goal of making new friends or with picking up girls... while trying to GIVE them something to add value to THEIR lives? Like, specifically, what would one do? Especially as a quiet introvert that doesn't drink? Interesting stuff to think about!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:11 am

ElderPrice wrote:The mafia boss ALSO has a lot of social proof. He has a whole entourage with him. He has people to give the “kill that guy” command to.

The key here is inference. Although itʼs not quite as powerful as actually seeing it in action, women do make inferences based on your own behaviour. For instance, last year I hit on a girl in day game who I didnʼt even recall I had hit on before, and my memory lapse created a very powerful inference in her that I must get lots of girls. Suddenly she got a lot more friendly! (More detail is here.) She doesnʼt need to actually see the thugs at your command in order to unconsciously expect them to exist. If your own behaviour is totally congruent with the fact that you get your way, sheʼll tend to think you do.

ElderPrice wrote:And if the idea is YOU have to do the approaching and NOT sit and chill to the side and do nothing, the louder/tougher guy is going to command attention.

This is again where day game (or even on‑line) is an advantage, because in those venues, there generally are no loud, tough guys you have to compete with. The brain is very temporally local in emotional assessments. (I know this the hard way based on how hard it is to drive myself to approach the only black girl in a store even though I know thereʼs many tens of thousands of them in the city.) So, if there are none of those loud guys around at the moment, you can get her attention easily. With that said, you will probably need to just make an approach blindly, since nobody is on her radar and girls donʼt usually approach, anyway.

Also, this ties into the “Law of Least Effort”. (See this and this.) If you make it seem like you went to almost no effort to approach the girl, you retain the cool, collected mafia boss vibe even though you had to do the approach. Thatʼs why I like approaching in stores, because I can just act like Iʼm browsing around, then when I work my way to the girl or she happens to come close, I just grab something off the shelf and tap her with it or do whatever Iʼm going to do, and it seems to her like I literally just happened to be standing there and then noticed her. Actually, your stopping girls that happened to come near the spot you were standing in, was a good tactic from that perspective.

ElderPrice wrote:... That idea is the one of giving vs. taking. The RSD videos speak of it as coping vs thriving.

... When Iʼm going out to meet new people or to meet girls, itʼs because Iʼm trying to add to my life. ...

... How do you approach new people with the goal of making new friends or with picking up girls... while trying to GIVE them something to add value to THEIR lives?

Itʼs a good observation, but it also reveals that on some level you have a belief that seducing a woman is taking from her. Consciously, I know better, but Iʼm still working to fix this unconsciously, too. Somehow I still think that way even though Iʼve seen on several isolated occasions how much a woman can want my dick. With more successes I will fix this. The reality is that women love being swept off their feet and they love being taken sexually by men who know how to do it. So really, youʼre giving every bit as much as youʼre taking. You just need to weaken the vicious cycle of unconsciously believing (because society has brainwashed us to believe) that your advances are unwanted, which becomes a self‑fulfilling prophecy.

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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Thank you again Phoenix! Agreed on all your points.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:52 pm

4/7/19 So far so good with this new paradigm. It helped me go outside my comfort zone and do some LEGIT cold approaching.

The last two nights were, socially speaking, great nights. I had a lot of fun and despite nothing happening on the girl front, unlike other nights afterward I was not depressed. I felt like I had a good time. I credit this to the new paradigm I stumbled on this week - the idea of taking vs. giving.

On both of these nights, I gave myself only one thing or cue to focus on: make everything I do about GIVING others a great night. Dance with others so they can have a great dance that night... converse with others so they can partake in a fun conversation that night... etc etc.

I didn't just want to limit the testing of this paradigm to the same old same old partner dancing I always do. I'm not a terrible dancer so I figure the odds are good I always generally GIVE girls a good dance and add value to their nights. So testing this paradigm with partner dancing wasn't going to work. I'd have to try something different.

Normally I'll hit up multiple venues on a weekend night just so I can keep partner dancing. For instance, one will offer dancing earlier in the night before switching to "club mode," while another might offer partner dancing all the way until closing time. I've always left the first one to go to the second later. This time I was motivated and energized to stick with the first venue, stick around until after it went into "club mode," abandon the dance floor entirely, and try some old fashioned, LEGIT cold approach.

Once club mode began, I left the dance floor and just started walking around, back and forth throughout the packed venue, drinking nothing but cold water. I was doing this alone. The few friends that turned out for partner dancing had left, and I didn't bump into anyone in the venue that I knew. I was as alone as it gets, and enjoyed every minute of it! As expected, it took a bit to push through the initial AA and get started, but once the first open is made, the rest start coming easy. I was warming up. I basically tried opening as many receptive or easy looking opportunities as I could spot.

I smiled at everyone I walked past, in case anyone smiled back and looked open to a conversation. I mostly tried direct compliments as ice breakers. I pointed at one guy as our paths crossed and said "That's a great beard!" He smiled, said thanks and kept walking. I said to another guy "That's a great jacket! Looking sharp!" He didn't hear me and kept walking. I walked past a group and said to a girl in the middle "Do I know you? Have we ever danced before?" A part of me legitimately thought this, though I was 95% sure I haven't met her before. She smiled and said no awkwardly. I smiled, shrugged my shoulders and walked away. This one was a side experiment to see if when I walked past her again going the other way she'd stop me and start an interaction (didn't happen). One girl I could have sworn made eye contact or checked me out from a distance. I eventually made my way over there and started a conversation. I smiled and said playfully "Hey did we make eye contact earlier? It was a girl in a blue dress. Was it you or someone else?" We had a short conversation. She was happy to converse, but wasn't hooked and quickly dropped the boyfriend line. I eventually wished her a great rest of her night and bounced. Another girl and I were walking past each other. I pointed, smiled, and said "THAT's an awesome dress!" She said thanks and kept walking. At one point I stopped for a second to look around and see if I recognized anyone. A guy standing next to me bumped into my shoe, apologized, and we started a pleasant conversation about the venue and our shoe choices that evening. We then moved on.

I did this for about a half hour then called it a night. No hooks, no bites. I also wanted to end on a positive note. I felt good after stepping outside my comfort zone and doing these opens. Maybe I did 10 or so total? If I tried another 20 and whiffed on them all, then I might have risked going home depressed. So I'll take my small victory now, and when I go out again to try this exercise again, I'll make sure to do more approaches. Looking forward to it!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:17 pm

4/13/19 No progress with girls, but making progress with myself.

Last night I took a break from the usual partner dancing and tried something new: I hit the clubs. My motivation was simple. I've been feeling good lately after doing a better job of forcing myself to do some LEGIT cold approaching. Going to a dance night and asking girls to dance doesn't really count. I've also been feeling good about the new mental paradigm I recently came across: the idea of giving vs. taking. While going about life holding the giving mindset, I've just felt better. Better mood, and much less butthurt and depressive thoughts when things don't go well. So due to these factors I thought: Fuck this, let's go for some volume, do some legit cold approaching, and see what happens - not just see what happens in terms of results with girls, but how I feel afterward (assuming I bomb again).

The sign that I am for sure making personal progress is this: Until last night I hated clubs. They were my least favorite thing ever. I don't like that music in terms of taste, I don't like the loudness of the music, I don't like the alcohol component, and I don't like everyone's on-guard personalities. It's just never, ever been fun. But I'm happy to say that last night I checked out several clubs and I had a pretty good time. This is a big deal for me. I'm actually surprised to be typing it! I would have never thought that I'd ever have a good time at a club but it finally happened!

So what did actually happen? Actually, basically nothing haha. It was that mindset that did the trick for me. The mindset of solely trying to provide OTHERS with a good time rather than trying to 'take' a good time for myself. Of all the people I talked to, none of them looked like they regretted meeting me. Most smiled and appreciated the conversation. And with each open that didn't hook, I was able to keep my motivation and move on to the next one.

In terms of girls (since that's what this is ultimately about), I got nothing. I wasn't counting my approaches, but it had to have been around 20 give or take. They just didn't hook. Well, to be more specific, the ones that hooked were the unattractive ones, like the fat girls of the group. Any girl that was remotely attractive didn't come close to hooking. Oh well.

Before if I had a night like this where I bombed so hard and got absolutely nothing from any girl the least bit attractive, I would have been VERY depressed for the next 2-3 days. I do feel sliiiiiightly down but nowhere near like before. Nowhere near where I feel unable to make use of the rest of the weekend and have a good time. So from here I'll figure out what I want to do the rest of the weekend and keep at it. I'd like to incorporate day game and again try something tonight that isn't dancing. Though to be honest, dancing sounds like fun after bombing so hard :)

Hooray on the growth!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:54 pm

Good job man!!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:32 pm

Thanks man!

4/14/19 Another club outing. Useful experience. My luck seems to be running on fumes haha.

I couldn't find a more appealing option, so I went to the same venue I usually go to on Saturdays. I got there early to do the partner dancing, but then I stuck around til late after it had turned into club mode. This is only the second time I've stuck around for club mode.

I did this last weekend. Again I stayed away from the club dance floor and just walked around by myself opening as many people (ideally girls) as I could find. Again I didn't count my total opens. Maybe 20-30? Guys included.

I got 3 hooks from girls, but like Friday night, luck just wasn't on my side. One of the hooks was a girl I was not attracted to at all, one was from out of town and leaving the next day, and one was engaged.

Two interesting things that happened last night:

First, for the first time I was able to create a group from scratch. I was standing by myself on a side of the establishment. I then opened three people standing next to me. Two women and a guy. I actually opened the very pretty milf first by commenting about her unique glasses. She never hooked and wasn't interested, but her group liked talking to me and the fact that I struck up a conversation with them. So now we're standing there as a group of 4. I then spot a couple that I opened maybe 20 minutes prior just standing around and people watching. I invite them to join the group and make introductions. Now we have a circle of 6 people. We kept talking for 5 or so minutes, but then the conversation died down and people started leaving the circle. Point of the story: I created a group from scratch and kept it alive for 5 minutes. That was pretty cool. Haha.

The other interesting thing that happened was this engaged girl. I was standing in this same area and noticed possibly the sexiest girl I'd seen all night just dancing to herself. She had been drinking but wasn't totally drunk. She was with a girl friend and a guy. I make some eye contact. I notice the guy is being a little more hands on with the other girl, so I figure this girl is single. Then they take a break from dancing club style. They look at their phones (looked like YouTube), then start attempting country two step, as if they just watched a tutorial. Perfect ice breaker. So I approach, asking if that's what they're trying, and I offer to help since I know how to do that. They were just messing around and the topic drops. The guy and girl go somewhere so I start talking to my target.

She quickly hooks and the fun interaction begins. Some flirting, some sexual conversation topics, playful conversation, talking closely, some initial touching... all there. Then comes the bad luck. She says she's visiting from North Dakota and is engaged. Wonderful. But the hook still holds and the conversation changes. She wants to help me meet a girl that night. She wants to be my wing. First, she offers some interesting analysis of, well, me. She says I'm a 6 but because I displayed enormous balls to approach her cold, that bumped me to an 8. She roasted my clothes, mainly my shirt. This was disappointing because I was wearing all new clothes that I recently bought to try and step up my usual attire hahaha. But she was right about the shirt. The shirt was the least sexy of all the new shirts I bought. But I was wearing it because of all the new shirts, it has the best, softest fabric and moves the easiest for dancing. So I knew the shirt wasn't great. She suggested I unbutton one more button, but I objected, saying I have acne and scars on my chest and that it's my one insecurity. She understood. She then wrapped her arm around my shoulders and we started walking around the venue. She would stop at certain points to let me look for girls and point out any that I liked.

Eventually we come across the other girl I mentioned. The wing girl points her out and offers advice: She's standing in the middle of her group of girls and isn't being touchy at all with the guy next to her. She's single and available. Wait for two instances of eye contact, then approach. Use a cheesy pickup line. I did everything but the cheesy pickup line haha. She actually looked familiar so my opener was asking if she was a girl named Clair that I had met at the same venue a month ago. Nope. Different girl. So the conversation began. She was hooked, but ever so slightly. The conversation went on and that's when she revealed she's a student, about to leave for the night because she has to get up at the crack of dawn the next day to begin her drive back to Minneapolis now that the semester is over. Wonderful.

So an interesting night with interesting experiences. I'm not sure if I'll have time today to day game. Maybe next weekend I'll not go out Saturday so I can get up early on Sunday to make sure I have time to day game. We will see!
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