Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks really



Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks really

Postby Space » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:09 am

Chase wrote:SZ, look at all the mainstream bodybuilding programs out there. [...] And despite the level of mainstream awareness, how many guys are actually swole? Some areas have more jacked guys than others... but most guys still aren't all that ripped.


Big Daddy wrote:If you're benching 225+ lb for sets of 5, you're already "hot" for 99% of girls, probably excluding those who are into bodybuilding. It's a nice surprise when she touches your body or you take off your shirt.


mindful wrote:I went from scrawny 125 lbs to about 150 lbs right now (30 yrs old). I feel a lot better because I know I'm not "skinny" anymore and have a more fit look. My goal is to be 155-160.


First, I've heard most body building advice is broscience. I've recently learned more about the Greek god look by clicking a link from the personal site of Darius Belejevas.

Second, I'm not American by I've read an article by Roosh that in the US you have to have this Greek god caricature type of male body to get laid properly. Well, mostly. Given body building is broscience, I'm not super convinced that this Greek god type of body has any health, or that matter, any practical benefits at all.

Health. Let's consider your target aren't American girls, you have relative choice in life already with a more or less average physique you are fine with, and your goal is to stay healthy. Maybe you prefer activities like like hiking and yoga (I'm more convinced these have actual health benefits than working on your a Greek god physique).

Practical benefits. I'm not convinced these are the most healthy exercise forms (for men), but let's say you are more into activities like cycling, running, or tennis. Heck, the Tour de France is one of the most popular live sport event (in Europe). Tennis is also followed by millions. One of the most popular sports is running for some reason, but I'm not convinced it's the healthiest one (for men). But I'm sure as hell sporting the Greek god look isn't the most practical physique if you want to be good at these activities. Or for the matter if you want to enjoy hiking or yoga. My point is, professional hikers, yogis, cyclists, runners, and tennis players all must sport sporty bodies by definition, but sporting this Greek god look would surely be detrimental to their sporting careers.

Bottom line: are there any good reasons to sport the Greek god look if your target isn't American girls? What are sane alternatives for health and practical reasons? Speaking of non-American girls, by anecdotal evidence, some are clearly into more (saner looking) leaner, thinner guys than Greek god types. (I don't read the science papers like Chase do, but for that matter, science itself isn't an exact science either, so to speak.)

PS. I just realized we have subforums here in Lifestyle like Health, Wealth, Travel, and Fashion and while 99% of posts in the main Lifestyle category can fit into one these, almost no one post in these sub-categories. So for the practical reason for anyone to find and read my post, I've posted this in the main category as well.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:13 am

Ops! For clarification. The thread Are looks really so unimportant? got me thinking. In this direction.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Motiv » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:10 am

Space,

I became a weight lifting enthusiast four years ago (inspired by Hector’s comparing himself to Jason Mamoa!), and a former GC writer even composer an article related to my transformation. I believe the thread I started, “My Body Transformation,” is still viewable in the Lifestyle category.

The short of it: muscles help. You don’t have to be ultra huge or on steroids, but the visible sign of a shapely, masculine body goes a long way to making your interactions with women easier and smoother.

Lastly, the act of pushing your body past physical limitations boosts your testosterone and builds emotional fortitude. Two things women detect inately. Trust me, it’s worth taking up weight lifting.

-M
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Eliasmusic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:05 pm

Completely second everything Motiv says... It won't get you laid, but if you already have game, then being big will 1- make it a whole lot fucking easier, and 2- make high quality girls easier.

Plz trust me here, as someone who has been both quite small, and quite large. I am 6 foot (182cm,) and naturally weigh about 68- 70kg. I’m fucking skinny. I can not put on any fat, however I can work my weigh up to 85 kg of muscle in about 6-12 months. To do this, I work out almost daily, and eat about 16000 kilojoules a day, or 4000 calories. I need a huge caloric surplus, (double the RDI) otherwise nothing happens. Typical Ectomorph… If I go out partying and forget to take snacks, I have literally lost 1-2kg muscle mass over the course of the weekend.

Aaaanyway, basically the difference in chicks response to me is huge. Let me outline 4 scenarios in ascending order of desirability: 1- Bad game/little man = getting laid very occasionally by chance. 2- Bad game/big man = Girls show immediate interest, but my total lay count does not rise dramatically from option 1. 3- Good game/little man = I have to put the effort in and approach and be charming and emotionally open etc, but I do fairly well. 4- Good Game/big man = It's fucking so easy it makes me sad... Literally, girls will come up and start touching my arms in clubs, and if I was trying to be celibate I would legit have a difficult time of it. It's just a big time saver... YES, you can get 9s and 10s while not being one yourself, but why not become as attractive as possible, it's easier for you, and there is a serious lack of attractive guys in the world... the women need you! Plus... It's not the end of the world, but girls usually want to be sexually dominated and fucked by an animalistic man... it really fucking helps if you're a lot bigger than them. Read this if you haven't already, it's genius
https://www.sdc.com/swingers-blogs/engl ... 50769.html

Re weightlifting-
You do not want to limit yourself to one kind of exercise, you will end up looking like a gym junkie if you only gym… You will end up stringy and Golem like if you only boulder (not quite but hey.) For the perfect physique, I would do mostly weights, but then mix it with a little bouldering, gymnastics/calisthenics, and some running or cycling to boot. Even within the gym, do NOT get caught doing the same amount of sets and reps for too long… mix it up with a big fucking 10x10 day.

Secondly, be very aware of your body type.

Like I said, I eat about 16000 kilojoules a day, or 4000 calories.
My brother on the other hand can cain 10kg of fat in about a week, and needs to reduce to 4000 kj a day (1000 calories) or half the RDI to lose any fat.

Peace and Love,
Elias
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Thanks for the tips, guys! Where I'm in life now, my perspective is that I just aim to be as healthy as possible. That's it.

I know nutrition and exercise are topics with so many contradictory advice. And broscience. But my sense is that being big does not equal being as healthy as possible. It may have a positive correlation (or even a negative correlation if you do something wrong), I don't know.

Let's say I aim for a healthy body and lifestyle and at worst, in the end I have to work twice as hard to get the nice ladies as the big men of this community. And you know what? That seems like a perfectly fine compromise to me between emotional and physical health and being a Super Seducer(TM) if that's a healthy lifestyle at all. As if the big guys in the community who also know their stuff in and out get the fruits of their work only half as easily as me? That's not a big deal. It means I'm still infinitely better than the average guy who isn't into pickup at all. Does my perspective on life makes sense to you?


The SDC.com site seems like an interesting one, thanks for letting me know! But for a full disclosure it would be interesting to know if the above was written by a girl from an Anglo-American or former Soviet country, or from anywhere in the rest of the world? Just so you know these things are supposed to be calibrated to your geographic location. I know I'm a minority non-American here. So someone smart had to assume I must me a troll, because what else can I be if I simply have a different perspective in life than him? That's logic.

What's the exercise regimen you can recommend to go healthy, not necessarily to go big?
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:20 pm

Eliasmusic wrote:Completely second everything Motiv says... It won't get you laid, but if you already have game, then being big will 1- make it a whole lot fucking easier, and 2- make high quality girls easier.

Oh! It's worth making clear how do you define a high quality girl. You know, your mileage may vary.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Motiv » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:43 pm

Space,

I’m a simple, intuitive guy when it comes down to getting the results I want.

V-taper. That’s the bottom line for me. Get your body fat low enough to have a visible six pack, and focus on building your shoulders, arms, chest, and back. Of course, don’t skip legs, but I do not obsess over legs. Men naturally excel over women in upper body strength, and women generally respond very positively to a muscled male torso.

I am not that big. 16ish inch arms on a good day. 15%ish body fat (cutting back down to 12%).

As for health, that’s not really my field. Just follow the obvious: don’t drink too much, get lots of veggies, and keep your cardio up to par in one from or another.

-M
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Eliasmusic » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:27 am

In terms of health, yea make sure you are getting enough vegetables.
It pays to take a multivitamin to supplement.
Avoid sugar like the plague.
Meditate.
Cycle on and off Tribulus Terrestris and Horny Goat Weed for a Testosterone and libido boost.
Avoid TOO much cardio, you want a mix of heavy weights (anaerobic) and cardio (aerobic)

In terms of high quality women, I mean women who think they're high quality and who generally are chased by a lot of guys.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Sat May 04, 2019 8:59 am

@Motiv, @Eliasmusic
Space wrote:Second, I'm not American by I've read an article by Roosh that in the US you have to have this Greek god caricature type of male body to get laid properly. Well, mostly. Given body building is broscience, I'm not super convinced that this Greek god type of body has any health, or that matter, any practical benefits at all.

Are you Americans? I'm curious if you've had the chance to check out the above resource. I'm World Game guy. There's a chance that we live in somewhat different realities.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Sat May 04, 2019 9:00 am

Urban Dictionary wrote:Broscience is the predominant brand of reasoning in bodybuilding circles where the anecdotal reports of jacked dudes are considered more credible than scientific research.


Chase wrote here:
Chase wrote:SZ, look at all the mainstream bodybuilding programs out there. You've got Body-4-Life, 4 Hour Body, BodyBuilding.com, a bunch of other ones that are probably super well known with large brand recognition and lots of people familiar with them / household names even. You've got guys perpetually on the top of Amazon's best seller lists in the space like Michael Matthews with Bigger Leaner Stronger. And despite the level of mainstream awareness, how many guys are actually swole? Some areas have more jacked guys than others... but most guys still aren't all that ripped.

I'm curious if you've read some of the top reviews of Bigger Leaner Stronger on Amazon. When evaluating a book's Amazon reviews, I like to concentrate on the not so raving but relevant ones, containing insightful criticism. This is where the topic of workout gets super confusing and contradictory.

So much so that you guys, @Motiv and @Eliasmusic give me advice

  • That is at least quite different from one another, maybe even contradictory?
  • Which assumes the familiarity with special language a layman like me is not well versed in, let alone has the background to evaluate the merits of the thinking behind such language

We wrote with Chase here:
Chase wrote:This is more due to diet than anything. Food in the West is loaded with sugar and sugar replacements (like high fructose corn syrup). It's in everything -- it's in the bread, it's in the pizza crust, it's in peanut butter, it's everywhere. People live hectic lives and don't cook their meals anymore like they do elsewhere in the world; all the food comes out of a box or a jar. It's all processed stuff, loaded with junk that goes straight to their fat deposits. And women on average hold onto more fat than men. So the men get fat; the women, fatter.

Space wrote:By the West, do you mean the US? In Europe we don't have so much high fructose corn syrup as you guys over there. Maybe because our agriculture doesn't focus as much on corn. There was a Michael Moore documentary about HFCS.

After all, maybe you want to say it's mostly diet, less so about exercise? We are at it. This is just a hypothesis, but I think the average people for average prices in an average supermarket can buy somewhat healthier (or less unhealthy) foods in Europe than in the US. Not talking about hing end chains, like Whole Foods. Then whether you put the processed on unprocessed foods into your shopping bag depends on your local culture, and your individual circumstances such as your busy life.

This is the Lifestyle section of the forum, not the Getting Good With Girls section. So is health really more dominantly about diet than exercise? That's the first question. An important one. Of course, both diet and exercise information is full of contradictions and controversies and that shouldn't mean you should avoid any form of exercise and you shouldn't strive for eating reasonably healthier. Even though the information isn't clear. I know, it's complicated. I just naturally tend to go not to the V-shape route, but to the opposite direction when it comes to health advice. See my first post!

The second question is how pursuing the V-shape or the Greek god or the American frat boy caricature or whatever you want to call it body type relates to health? Is there a positive or a negative correlation, or perhaps there isn't any correlation? I'm obviously skeptical about the positive correlation. We assume the caveman had at least a relatively healthy build (even though he lived a short and miserable life) as he didn't sit in an office chair all day starting at a screen but he had to be constantly on the move to gather enough food to survive. Would sporting a Greek god body would have been more beneficial or detrimental to his well being? I'm not an expert on the topic but I assume sporting a Greek god body wouldn't have beneficial to Mr Caveman's objectives. In fact, maintaining it would have been quite expensive to him in terms of burning scarce resources.

There is a school of though which says the health is is the legs. That's the school of thought I assume Mr Caveman subscribed to. That's the school of thought I naturally inclined to subscribe to. And to connect it to something relevant to our purposes, there is dating advice praising the benefits of the ability to walk sexily. Which man walks more sexily? A Greek god body type who hasn't concentrated as much on his legs as @Motiv suggested or a guy who is the opposite? Someone who does mostly healthy leg exercises when working out concentrating function rather than aesthetics? Logic suggests me the latter should definitely walk sexier.

Then the next logical question: Is attraction more about looks, such a non-functional, V-shape body, or about movement, such as a sexy walk, even though the man who walks the walk has an aesthetically less appealing body than Mr Greek god but useless statue?

And finally: I find the idea of working out for the sole purpose of getting girls psychologically damaging. As long as the purpose is getting healthy or there is a direct correlation, I'm all in, but working out only for girls? That sounds like a totally depressing and a mentally damaging attitude to me. (The first video here.) It simply isn't a useful way to spend my resources like my time.

I'm not overweight, I have an average to slightly athletic, lean figure. I never feel myself inferior to a meathead in a situation when for example we approach the same girl at different times. Working out and mutual attraction are both complex topics but I always feel like I connect better to girls who value a thoughtful conversation or an emotional connector or whatever it is to the visual stimulus of a caricature type of body. I don't much remember losing this or that girl to a meathead. Girls into meatheads aren't my type of girls in the first place. On the other hand, my type of girls aren't that much into meatheads (I suppose). So to each to his or her own. Of course, the meathead is just a stereotype and I'm probably just as much a different stereotype in this example but you get the idea.

Eliasmusic wrote:Meditate.

This is indeed something I should do. So I don't usually feel out-Alpha'd (or how to say it) by the meathead, but by the calm, slow, and peaceful guy, quite possibly a meditator. Yeah, that's a common (even if not frequent) experience I can relate to. I remember David Deida (a writer inspired many) wrote in his book that you should do breathing exercises. I don't remember the part where he wrote you should build a V-shape body though. I'm not even sure it wouldn't be detrimental to your efforts regarding your breathing exercises. That's a point.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Thu May 30, 2019 6:02 am

Space wrote:
Eliasmusic wrote:Meditate.

This is indeed something I should do. So I don't usually feel out-Alpha'd (or how to say it) by the meathead, but by the calm, slow, and peaceful guy, quite possibly a meditator. Yeah, that's a common (even if not frequent) experience I can relate to. I remember David Deida (a writer inspired many) wrote in his book that you should do breathing exercises. I don't remember the part where he wrote you should build a V-shape body though. I'm not even sure it wouldn't be detrimental to your efforts regarding your breathing exercises. That's a point.

Consider James Marshall, founder of The Natural Lifestyles. He doesn't look like a body builder, but he is an avid proponent of meditation, and by his job description, he is supposed to be good with women, right? At least he looks good enough to me to model.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Thu May 30, 2019 6:04 am

Fertility paradox in male beauty quest
Scientists have uncovered an evolutionary paradox where men damage their ability to have children during efforts to make themselves look more attractive.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Will KZ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:02 am

Space wrote:Fertility paradox in male beauty quest
Scientists have uncovered an evolutionary paradox where men damage their ability to have children during efforts to make themselves look more attractive.


Hey Space, that article is specifically about steroid use, which so far no-one has advocated in this thread, though of course it is a not-so-secret part of many bodybuilding routines.

I completely understand where you're coming from in preferring overall health to muscles - this guy's article suggests bigger people die younger, even if they have a lower BMI - https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress. ... xpectancy/

I actually enjoy weightlifting/bodybuilding as a sport, though no-one would ever think of me as a bodybuilder - I have an athletic physique. Even though I do like to lift, I prefer a game of football, tennis, surfing, or a long walk/hike in a park or beach. (Speaking of tennis, if you really care about longevity, it seems to be a top sport -https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/well/move/the-best-sport-for-a-longer-life-try-tennis.html and dancing (I think ballroom) seems to be the to be the best dementia prevention - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... y-dementia). Obviously these are articles, to really be sure you have to read the studies themselves, journalists often skew scientific results in their presentations to the public, either through ignorance or commercial necessity.

I actually would like to build a kind of Greek God physique, and am considering focusing on that for a while, I enjoy lifting but it's never been a priority. It's not just for girls though, often when I'm walking down the street I find people walking directly into my path, as if I'm not even there, and I have to correct my body posture for them to seem to acknowledge my presence and move back out of the way. I imagine a stronger build may improve my posture, and help people show me more respect naturally, without me needing to be so mindful of it. I also think it'll help regarding testosterone and women and I'm not going to pretend that isn't part of my motivation. Through what the meatheads call fuckarounditis, I've found my favourite routines to be reverse pyramid training styles, that is what I'd use. But I have a similar worry that it might be detrimental to my health long term, and I try to take a long term perspective in most things. I've also dated gorgeous girls without being a jacked guy, so I know it's not a necessity for my dating life, but I do feel it'll overall improve things enough to justify giving it a go.

Lastly, Jack Lalanne lived to 96 - I doubt he ever took much in the way of anabolic steroids, and he was a strong, muscular guy. So bodybuilding isn't necessarily an early death sentence. But if going to the gym makes you miserable, and if a lack of muscle isn't holding you back in any serious way, I understand why you're not interested. You don't need to be guilted into going by strangers on the internet any more than I need to be guilted into a poly relationship.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Zorz » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:46 am

I will share my experience hoping to help. I started bodybuilding 2 years ago. First of all getting really big (like a Greek God) is not possible unless you train for more than 5 years, almost every day, without skipping a meal or unless you are on drugs (a big no no for me). It takes a long time and much pain to build muscle.
The benefits regarding women were the following for me:
1. My face looks more wild with more corners and women love that.
2. Before I went to gym, I was constantly trying to fix my posture and my walking and I just couldn't get them the way I wanted them: musculine and steady. A year in bodybuilding and fixing my posture and the way I walked was easy, after watching a few videos. What changed? My muscles became stronger, and thus the way I move and stand is more steady and musculine (deadlifts and squats are the the best for your posture). The difference is huge with women when I walk on the street.
3. My voice became deeper.
4. My testosterone levels are higher, I am more aggressive with women.
5. I last longer in bed because I don't get tired easily now. Also my moves during sex are more smooth now
6. My body looks bigger and healthier

All in all, bodybuilding will not bring women to your bed, but it helps a lot if you are trying to bring them.
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Re: Greek god body type: health and practical considerations (Was: Are looks rea

Postby Space » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:54 pm

Will-

Good insights about dance and tennis!

Zorz-

Thanks for sharing your personal experience! I don't know what else I could add that I haven't written so already before here.

Space wrote:We wrote with Chase here:
Chase wrote:This is more due to diet than anything. Food in the West is loaded with sugar and sugar replacements (like high fructose corn syrup). It's in everything -- it's in the bread, it's in the pizza crust, it's in peanut butter, it's everywhere. People live hectic lives and don't cook their meals anymore like they do elsewhere in the world; all the food comes out of a box or a jar. It's all processed stuff, loaded with junk that goes straight to their fat deposits. And women on average hold onto more fat than men. So the men get fat; the women, fatter.

Space wrote:By the West, do you mean the US? In Europe we don't have so much high fructose corn syrup as you guys over there. Maybe because our agriculture doesn't focus as much on corn. There was a Michael Moore documentary about HFCS.

After all, maybe you want to say it's mostly diet, less so about exercise? We are at it. This is just a hypothesis, but I think the average people for average prices in an average supermarket can buy somewhat healthier (or less unhealthy) foods in Europe than in the US. Not talking about hing end chains, like Whole Foods. Then whether you put the processed on unprocessed foods into your shopping bag depends on your local culture, and your individual circumstances such as your busy life.

Health is an extremely complex subject, how your diet affects it notwithstanding. Even though I don't look like a Greek athlete nor do I have any special deep desire to do so (maybe, if I find it to be a natural fit to my other, more important pursuits), but I'm pretty sure I'm doing better health-wise than average:

  • I look younger.
  • I suspect I simply have access to better food in the average European supermarket for average prices than most Americans do in their local equivalent (correct me if I'm wrong!) and isn't health mostly about what you eat in the first place?
  • Yeah, I don't exactly do American style 'going to the gym' workout, but guess what? Most people in the world you would consider healthy don't do it either. Did I say health is an extremely complex subject? I'm doing what's required in this area by multiple sources to the bodymind and of course, I'm still open to explore new avenues as well. I don't want to mention the whole filed is mostly broscience as I've mentioned if before more than once so that's it for today.
Let me think! Did The Way of the Superior Man or any other, similarly classic book on masculinity mentioned anything like you have to go to the gym like an American, there is simply no other way around it?
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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