Are looks really so unimportant?



Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:11 pm

I'm not the best looking guy. I'm probably closer to the worst. As a barometer, note that I need to use doctored photos to get matches on dating apps. Anyway, I've really been struggling to get anywhere with the women that I meet through the apps. But, when I come on here and read the FRs and LRs, I see that a lot of them involve the woman giving the guy a clear approach invitation or even opening him. The almost romantic idea I have from GC is that of a mysterious guy with no special looks forming a special connection with a particular woman, making her feel so much lust and passion that it's just inevitable that she gets together with this guy, who would otherwise seem unassuming and regular. But even Hector, in one of his videos, explained that women probably already like you, but you do not notice. In the video he shows how the liking is based only on the guy's looks. On top of that, as I've mentioned before, the GC veterans on here have great looks. Many of them are tall and have a full head of hair past the age of 23, for example.

On the other hand, Chase's by now legendary articles give a lot of scientific evidence on why looks aren't important. But - I'm just playing devil's advocate - perhaps it might be possible to find scientific articles supporting the opposite belief. So what's the right answer and what is holding back the guys on here who aren't doing so well? Am I right to go looking (no pun intended) at looks or is the prevailing view on GC - though it may be from good looking guys - the correct one? Thanks and hoping for a good discussion!
strictlyincreasing


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Lover » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:40 pm

From what I'm seeing, you're trying to draw the conclusion that because somebody's good looking, naturally they will get the girls to bed. If it worked like that, we would all be handsome from our handsome ancestors. But that is not the case, is it? We all look weird as fuck. Some have big noses, big eyes, bushy eyebrows, big ears, severe acne, our hairline recedes, and what have you. Heck, you could even tell me that muscular guys get all the girls, and I would be like "well, they're doing something actively to attract more mates, and what are we doing? Complaining they clean up???"

Looks do matter, there's no denying that. And maybe the veterans you talk about, did something to maximize their looks too. But looks alone won't get you anywhere.

In a hypothetical situation, imagine guy A, who is in the top 5 % of good looking guys. And to put on of it, he's got some muscles he knows how to show off. This guy hangs out with his buddies on the regular, hit the bars every other weekend and have a hard time meet girls. He's mostly used to talk about things factually rather than emotionally, he doesn't challenge the women he meets, he is mostly interested in guy thing (cars, computers, electronic gadgets etc.), and he never talks about the gym because he thinks it turns most women off. Girls opens him all the time. On a random night, he is opened by girl A. She offers him a drink to make him relax in her presence and look good in his eyes. But he only wants to know facts about her (where does she live, what does she do in school or work). If the girl stays around and asks him about his favorite hobbies, he doesn't talk about the minor hobbies he would have a higher chance to connect with her on. He blabbers on about the cars, iPhones and so on. She is not hooked on the conversation. She excuses themselves and leaves, disappointed.

On the very same night, guy B is in the bar. He is an average guy in regards to looks - nothing too special about him. He's pretty much like guy A when it comes to interests, but he's passionate about basketball and wants to be the best. As a result, he might only hit the bars once every month because he doesn't have time for more. And when he is there, women rarely open him because he's just average looking. There are TONS of better looking guys. Yet he casually opens girls here and there. Some dismisses him right away, but some of them gets curious about him because he just goes up to them like he's talking to a good friend - like he does with girl A. She asks him what he does. He talks about basketball, and how he's passionate about it. How that last important goal he or his teammate made the last second the other day secured an important victory. He talks about how scary it was they could have lost that match by such a margin, and if their coach hadn't lifted their spirit in the end, they might very well had lost it. When he talks about all of this, there is a sparkle in his eyes, and it gets her all curious and interested in him. Girl A doesn't understand all the details of his hobby since she was never interested in ball sports. BUT she happens to be just as passionate about ballet and tells him about it. She has to match her energy level to his now. And he teases her as she tells him about her hobby, challenges her, makes her qualify to him. And now that they're here, she WANTS to qualify to him. She WANTS to feel more of this connection they share. Maybe just for this conversation, maybe for this night, maybe for more. But she has definitely forgot all about the good looking guy A at this point.

point is: looks are good for getting some girls interested. But it rarely does anything to keep their interest by itself. Which of these guys would stand a better chance of taking girl A to bed, you think?

also read this funny article, and decide for yourself if you want to join a pity party, or take responsibility for your women life.

Maximize your looks as much as possible. You could take care of your skin, grooming and fundamentals as a start. See Chase's and Darius' articles about that.

As far as online dating goes: Put up your best pictures - even if your photoshopped ones are the best. I had my Tinder set to search for guys as well to get some inspiration for my pics. Only lesson worth mentioning is that even some of the best looking guys use photoshop as well. I thought that was somewhat pitiful because I thought they didn't need it. But whatever people can do to upgrade themselves, they will. You should do the same now that you're here.

To answer your title: looks are not the alpha and omega for taking women to bed. If you ever see good looking guys clean up, they definitely have something else going for them.
Sexting is one of the most stress relieving actions you can ever do. Probably even more if she also sends nudes

Formerly known as Ajay
Lover


Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:02 am
Location: Europe

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby fog » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:23 pm

Consider this quote by Mystery:

attraction is an emotion that responds to survival and replication value


The facial features of a guy is not a predictable indicator of his survival and replication value. Therefore, they play a small role in female attraction.

So what is more important?

- preselection
- ability to protect loved ones
- social proof
- stability & dependability
- access to resources
- and more!

You can use game to convey all these things to women!
fog

User avatar

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:46 am
Location: a forest

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:10 pm

songbird fog wrote:Consider this quote by Mystery:

attraction is an emotion that responds to survival and replication value


The facial features of a guy is not a predictable indicator of his survival and replication value. Therefore, they play a small role in female attraction.

So what is more important?

- preselection
- ability to protect loved ones
- social proof
- stability & dependability
- access to resources
- and more!

You can use game to convey all these things to women!


But isn't Mystery's book outdated in the modern day? Back when that book was written, text messaging wasn't even common. Moreover, Mystery learned this from his own experiences. What if his learning was flawed because he came in as an incredible looking guy? I'm not arguing either way but I'm just saying that it's possible that he was wrong.


Ajay wrote:From what I'm seeing, you're trying to draw the conclusion that because somebody's good looking, naturally they will get the girls to bed. If it worked like that, we would all be handsome from our handsome ancestors. But that is not the case, is it? We all look weird as fuck. Some have big noses, big eyes, bushy eyebrows, big ears, severe acne, our hairline recedes, and what have you. Heck, you could even tell me that muscular guys get all the girls, and I would be like "well, they're doing something actively to attract more mates, and what are we doing? Complaining they clean up???"

Looks do matter, there's no denying that. And maybe the veterans you talk about, did something to maximize their looks too. But looks alone won't get you anywhere.

In a hypothetical situation, imagine guy A, who is in the top 5 % of good looking guys. And to put on of it, he's got some muscles he knows how to show off. This guy hangs out with his buddies on the regular, hit the bars every other weekend and have a hard time meet girls. He's mostly used to talk about things factually rather than emotionally, he doesn't challenge the women he meets, he is mostly interested in guy thing (cars, computers, electronic gadgets etc.), and he never talks about the gym because he thinks it turns most women off. Girls opens him all the time. On a random night, he is opened by girl A. She offers him a drink to make him relax in her presence and look good in his eyes. But he only wants to know facts about her (where does she live, what does she do in school or work). If the girl stays around and asks him about his favorite hobbies, he doesn't talk about the minor hobbies he would have a higher chance to connect with her on. He blabbers on about the cars, iPhones and so on. She is not hooked on the conversation. She excuses themselves and leaves, disappointed.

On the very same night, guy B is in the bar. He is an average guy in regards to looks - nothing too special about him. He's pretty much like guy A when it comes to interests, but he's passionate about basketball and wants to be the best. As a result, he might only hit the bars once every month because he doesn't have time for more. And when he is there, women rarely open him because he's just average looking. There are TONS of better looking guys. Yet he casually opens girls here and there. Some dismisses him right away, but some of them gets curious about him because he just goes up to them like he's talking to a good friend - like he does with girl A. She asks him what he does. He talks about basketball, and how he's passionate about it. How that last important goal he or his teammate made the last second the other day secured an important victory. He talks about how scary it was they could have lost that match by such a margin, and if their coach hadn't lifted their spirit in the end, they might very well had lost it. When he talks about all of this, there is a sparkle in his eyes, and it gets her all curious and interested in him. Girl A doesn't understand all the details of his hobby since she was never interested in ball sports. BUT she happens to be just as passionate about ballet and tells him about it. She has to match her energy level to his now. And he teases her as she tells him about her hobby, challenges her, makes her qualify to him. And now that they're here, she WANTS to qualify to him. She WANTS to feel more of this connection they share. Maybe just for this conversation, maybe for this night, maybe for more. But she has definitely forgot all about the good looking guy A at this point.

point is: looks are good for getting some girls interested. But it rarely does anything to keep their interest by itself. Which of these guys would stand a better chance of taking girl A to bed, you think?

also read this funny article, and decide for yourself if you want to join a pity party, or take responsibility for your women life.

Maximize your looks as much as possible. You could take care of your skin, grooming and fundamentals as a start. See Chase's and Darius' articles about that.

As far as online dating goes: Put up your best pictures - even if your photoshopped ones are the best. I had my Tinder set to search for guys as well to get some inspiration for my pics. Only lesson worth mentioning is that even some of the best looking guys use photoshop as well. I thought that was somewhat pitiful because I thought they didn't need it. But whatever people can do to upgrade themselves, they will. You should do the same now that you're here.

To answer your title: looks are not the alpha and omega for taking women to bed. If you ever see good looking guys clean up, they definitely have something else going for them.


Ok fair enough about the ancestors. But GC has taught us that women are very conservative and go by social proof etc. So the tastes of women could very well change over time. What if we are living in an age in which looks reign supreme?

That hypothetical situation wouldn't occur. Guy A would be reading the GC material and moving fast. He'd isolate a woman within 20 minutes of meeting. The GC vets have done this many times.

Moreover, guy B is not relevant to my discussion. I'm talking about a below average guy who seems like he does not have a hope in hell, looks wise. It's just a hypothetical character, but I feel like he could go open a woman, try to move her within a few minutes, as advised by GC, and get told no every time because she's not interested.

What I am saying is that many articles on GC and reports on the forum say that the guy knew that the woman was into them from the very start. But how could she be into him if not for his looks? It just seems that most successful LRs on here are in that category, rather than a guy meeting a woman and upping her mood through game, persistence and moving fast.
strictlyincreasing


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby radeng » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:50 pm

You’re looking for an excuse about why aren’t succeeding. While looks are very important, most aspect of looks are changeable. These are a large part of non verbal fundamentals and they are crucial to your game and vibe.

If your face looks like shit, that’s fine, you can still do pretty well:
1) be in great shape - no brainer and what every guy should strive for
2) get a great haircut
3) fix walk and posture
4) use eye contact and body language that is dominant

Ugly guys who do the above well can still get laid. Now if you throw in verbal tactics on top of that you can out compete guys who are much better looking than you. How do you get good with your words? You talk to people all the time. How many girls have you approached today??

So yeah looks help for sure. No one is saying they don’t matter, especially not GC where we put a huge amount of focus on making out looks. But being ugly is no excuse to not do well. I have plenty of ugly friends who smash hotties on the reg. I have model friends who only get laid a couple times a year.

If you’re finding yourself using this as an excuse it’s time to man up and approach more.

Also. In online dating the importance of looks and amazing photos is exaggerated. If looks isn’t your strong point then gtf off dating apps and get to the real world. Play to your strengths not your weaknesses.

Cheers,
Radeng
radeng


Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:15 pm

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Space » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:59 pm

strictlyincreasing wrote:I'm not the best looking guy. I'm probably closer to the worst.

Do you have a great haircut and a nice wardrobe? You may be interested in checking out Girls Chase resident style expert, Darius Belejevas' contribution.
I can say I greatly improved my looks by a relatively decent haircut (I have difficult hair) and even only half decent clothes. Truth to be told, I have no idea how much of an impact these small adjustments make. Probably the most they do is to help me to feel better about myself. I remember a former self of mine when I also felt fugly. Now a distant memory. I haven't read Chase's now legendary article you referred, but didn't link to. :)

strictlyincreasing wrote:As a barometer, note that I need to use doctored photos to get matches on dating apps. Anyway, I've really been struggling to get anywhere with the women that I meet through the apps.

You probably shouldn't be on those apps in the first place. I've never been on Tinder. Did I miss a thing? I'm not saying there is no value in chatting up girls. Someone once has famously said that online chat is like a girl simulator. You have on-demand access to the female mind. A lot to learn from, but that's another story.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:07 pm
Location: The Old Continent

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:48 pm

radeng wrote:You’re looking for an excuse about why aren’t succeeding. While looks are very important, most aspect of looks are changeable. These are a large part of non verbal fundamentals and they are crucial to your game and vibe.

If your face looks like shit, that’s fine, you can still do pretty well:
1) be in great shape - no brainer and what every guy should strive for
2) get a great haircut
3) fix walk and posture
4) use eye contact and body language that is dominant

Ugly guys who do the above well can still get laid. Now if you throw in verbal tactics on top of that you can out compete guys who are much better looking than you. How do you get good with your words? You talk to people all the time. How many girls have you approached today??

So yeah looks help for sure. No one is saying they don’t matter, especially not GC where we put a huge amount of focus on making out looks. But being ugly is no excuse to not do well. I have plenty of ugly friends who smash hotties on the reg. I have model friends who only get laid a couple times a year.

If you’re finding yourself using this as an excuse it’s time to man up and approach more.

Also. In online dating the importance of looks and amazing photos is exaggerated. If looks isn’t your strong point then gtf off dating apps and get to the real world. Play to your strengths not your weaknesses.

Cheers,
Radeng


Most guys trying to do well with girls are in great shape already. They also have excellent posture because that comes along with the mobility exercises that they do while getting in shape. Their body language and eye contact are dominant because they are typically going to feel big and powerful with their muscles. Those are a given. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

But for number 2, I'm bald, and it seems like no woman will give me a chance if I try to escalate or request a significant amount of compliance. About 70% of a guy's looks are hereditary. Does he have a full head of hair past the age of 23? Is he taller than x (where x depends on the country he's in, typically)? What if he's bad in those 70% and the last 30% doesn't work for him, even when maxed out?

Maybe I am just making excuses, but that's what I feel is happening to me. People on here are talking about how women give them flirty eyes, suggestive talk, opening them, proximity etc. and I just have not experienced any of it yet. It feels like there's no way to compete with the other men, no matter how much I earn or how much knowledge I obtain from places like GC.
strictlyincreasing


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Big Daddy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:51 pm

strictlyincreasing wrote:About 70% of a guy's looks are hereditary. Does he have a full head of hair past the age of 23? Is he taller than x (where x depends on the country he's in, typically)? What if he's bad in those 70% and the last 30% doesn't work for him, even when maxed out?


Do you think this guy would have any problem attracting girls?:

Image

And how about this other guy?:

Image

Now keep in mind that you just made a decision on whether this guy would be able to fuck a lot of girls without seeing a) his face b) his hairstyle. You made your decision based solely on his physique and his style. There is your answer. It's more like 15% hereditary, and even that's under your control to some extent e.g. learn to balance your baldness with a certain style that fits it.

My recommendation if you need any motivation is: find a guy who is bald, short and anything else that you consider a limitation, then go and find examples of guys who are exactly like that but still do great with girls and do everything in your power to mimic them.

PS, if you can grow a beard, by all means do it. It looks fantastic on bald guys and tbh every guy that wasn't born with Brad Pitt face genetics is better off hiding half of his face.
Big Daddy

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby fog » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:11 pm

strictlyincreasing wrote:But isn't Mystery's book outdated in the modern day? Back when that book was written, text messaging wasn't even common. Moreover, Mystery learned this from his own experiences. What if his learning was flawed because he came in as an incredible looking guy? I'm not arguing either way but I'm just saying that it's possible that he was wrong..


Mysterys book was published in 2005. Thats 13 years ago. Evolution takes place over the course of millions of years, it could not have changed in 13 years.

Yes, if it was just mystery who has benefited from his learnings then i could agree that they could be flawed. but the mystery method has helped a wicked ton of people get laid - even not so good looking people
fog

User avatar

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:46 am
Location: a forest

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Space » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:36 am

strictlyincreasing,

One of the most successful local dating coach here is also totally bald.

Space wrote:Do you have a great haircut and a nice wardrobe? You may be interested in checking out Girls Chase resident style expert, Darius Belejevas' contribution.

Did you check out Darius' latest post for Girl Chase, Total Image Mastery for Men Who are Bald?

I'm not from American culture, so I do not hit the gym as many Americans here do.

There you go. I gave you three additional data points.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:07 pm
Location: The Old Continent

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Big Daddy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 am

Oops, I just realized I fucked up the image links. I'm copying the post again:

strictlyincreasing wrote:About 70% of a guy's looks are hereditary. Does he have a full head of hair past the age of 23? Is he taller than x (where x depends on the country he's in, typically)? What if he's bad in those 70% and the last 30% doesn't work for him, even when maxed out?


Do you think this guy would have any problem attracting girls?:

Image

And how about this other guy?:

Image

Now keep in mind that you just made a decision on whether this guy would be able to fuck a lot of girls without seeing a) his face b) his hairstyle. You made your decision based solely on his physique and his style. There is your answer. It's more like 15% hereditary, and even that's under your control to some extent e.g. learn to balance your baldness with a certain style that fits it.

My recommendation if you need any motivation is: find a guy who is bald, short and anything else that you consider a limitation, then go and find examples of guys who are exactly like that but still do great with girls and do everything in your power to mimic them.

PS, if you can grow a beard, by all means do it. It looks fantastic on bald guys and tbh every guy that wasn't born with Brad Pitt face genetics is better off hiding half of his face.
Big Daddy

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby razir110 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:02 pm

My dear friend, I can totally relate to what you are saying here.. because I've been there!

In my opinion the looks do play a role. All girls say that. But do the looks play a DECISIVE role? I would say they def don't!

Put it this way: I think I am a decently well looking guy. But I'm not handsome. Actually, I use to have many problems with self esteem in my teens with the way I looked, cause I was, well, really ugly back then. It's true that genetics change a person over time, but trust me, I worked a lot on my appearance, my clothes, my body, hairstyle, etc. This makes a huge difference in your looks. It's just what impresses women aren't your looks. Being good looking will def give you more green lights from girls. But then don't forget that you don't really need a green light to approach her. And now look at this: you are really good at talking but not good looking, you will def score loads of girls, but if you are handsome and have few to say, you won't get laid. What if you are both handsome and good talker you ask? Well congrats, nature has been nice to you and you will fuck like a horse your whole life, but the nature has been nice to very few of us, men. Yet, you see average guys with beautiful girls, don't you? As a matter of fact, the handsome guys don't usually date beautiful women, the gorgeous girls are taken by average looking men. This would never happen if the looks were decisive. And don't think it's about his wealth or something else. It's about social skills.

More, if girls are being approached by an ugly guy, their expectations will be very low. If the guy is handsome, they will expect him to be a good seducer. So you can use this to your advantage. Approach them, you will get tested a lot and blown off by them, but if you learn how to deal with objections (just read the article on GC ;) ), the girls will think like "damn! 5min ago I wouldn't have even looked at this guy, but now I am interested to see what he can bring to the table."

Look at this from another perspective:

If you want to be an engineer, you have to be good with numbers, good at maths. True. But do you have to be a math genius? No! You just have to be good and still make a killer career in engineering. If you have the gift for numbers then great, you can be a rock star, but what if you don't? You shouldn't even try to become an engineer? We wouldn't have engineers in this world if you had to be the best of the best to do this profession. And it's the same with every single human activity, including women. It's like saying that you must be Leonardo DiCaprio to approach women... We would all die virgins and the human race would be extinct.

Now this is very important my friend!:

If you keep living your life thinking that you can't get girls because you weren't lucky enough to be born handsome, you will live as a victim. And living your life with victim mentality is the worst thing you can do to yourself. It disempowers you, it takes away your initiative and you will always be the result of the circumstance, not a creator. And pssssst.. ..women can SMELL LACK OF POWER MILES AWAY! So my advice to you is: 1 stop being a victim.

How? by doing the nº 2: accept responsibility: It's not your responsibility that your weren't born with the best genetics. But if you want to change your life, get a girlfriend and be happy, it's your responsibility, from this moment, to do your absolute best to become good with women, no matter what you will have to go through. You can't change the past, but you have the control over your future.

Best!

PS: Mate and for Christ sake, quit the fucking dating apps! Delete that shit from your phone right now. Approach in person! Don't hide behind a smartphone screen my friend, this won't solve your issues! Only approaching in person will make you good with women. If you don't have the looks then it will def be tough for you to get matches and shit.. because 94% of communication is non verbal!!! You must use your NON-VERBAL COMMUNICATION, not the superficial photos that say nothing about you to the girl.
razir110


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:54 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:06 pm

Space wrote:strictlyincreasing,

One of the most successful local dating coach here is also totally bald.

Space wrote:Do you have a great haircut and a nice wardrobe? You may be interested in checking out Girls Chase resident style expert, Darius Belejevas' contribution.

Did you check out Darius' latest post for Girl Chase, Total Image Mastery for Men Who are Bald?

I'm not from American culture, so I do not hit the gym as many Americans here do.

There you go. I gave you three additional data points.


I've seen that article before. Well, as I said, I was always doing numbers 1 through 4. As for my style, I have tried different styles. The edgy or bad boy look makes me look too unrefined. But I'm not skinny like that guy Neil in the photos; by all admissions, I should pull any look off better. But my fundamentals still aren't considered good. The problem with all of those looks is that, where I live, they are high effort and might be considered tryhard. Can you really rock up to a date dressed like that and have the woman be ok with it? If you look like that and the woman is wearing a simple sweater or skirt, then, aren't you making her look bad (as described in https://www.girlschase.com/content/how- ... ches-dates) Moreover, is a simple change in clothing going to get a lot more yeses from women? If it might, I will explore further. I have had bad dates even when I went with the bomber jacket badass look, but should I have stuck with it?


Big Daddy wrote:
strictlyincreasing wrote:About 70% of a guy's looks are hereditary. Does he have a full head of hair past the age of 23? Is he taller than x (where x depends on the country he's in, typically)? What if he's bad in those 70% and the last 30% doesn't work for him, even when maxed out?


Do you think this guy would have any problem attracting girls?:

Image

And how about this other guy?:

Image

Now keep in mind that you just made a decision on whether this guy would be able to fuck a lot of girls without seeing a) his face b) his hairstyle. You made your decision based solely on his physique and his style. There is your answer. It's more like 15% hereditary, and even that's under your control to some extent e.g. learn to balance your baldness with a certain style that fits it.

My recommendation if you need any motivation is: find a guy who is bald, short and anything else that you consider a limitation, then go and find examples of guys who are exactly like that but still do great with girls and do everything in your power to mimic them.

PS, if you can grow a beard, by all means do it. It looks fantastic on bald guys and tbh every guy that wasn't born with Brad Pitt face genetics is better off hiding half of his face.


The first guy would look skinny with clothes on. He would struggle bald. The second guy is a trick photo because it's well known that we associate his style with a hipster beard and haircut. But, in my opinion, both would struggle while bald. I'm actually in visibly similar shape to the second guy (more bulky, less tall...) and I'm not exactly batting the women away with my fundamentals. I tried the beard and, because I already have a tough looking face, it looked very extreme. People hesitated to make eye contact with me, for example. Would you then recommend that I go more for a The Rock style look without a beard?

I'm really trying to find a guy who is bald, short and just like me while doing well with women...but no matter where I go, I do not see bald guys who look like me that are doing well with women. They are typically in a LTR that started when they had hair or are single and working on it like I am.


razir110 wrote:My dear friend, I can totally relate to what you are saying here.. because I've been there!

In my opinion the looks do play a role. All girls say that. But do the looks play a DECISIVE role? I would say they def don't!

Put it this way: I think I am a decently well looking guy. But I'm not handsome. Actually, I use to have many problems with self esteem in my teens with the way I looked, cause I was, well, really ugly back then. It's true that genetics change a person over time, but trust me, I worked a lot on my appearance, my clothes, my body, hairstyle, etc. This makes a huge difference in your looks. It's just what impresses women aren't your looks. Being good looking will def give you more green lights from girls. But then don't forget that you don't really need a green light to approach her. And now look at this: you are really good at talking but not good looking, you will def score loads of girls, but if you are handsome and have few to say, you won't get laid. What if you are both handsome and good talker you ask? Well congrats, nature has been nice to you and you will fuck like a horse your whole life, but the nature has been nice to very few of us, men. Yet, you see average guys with beautiful girls, don't you? As a matter of fact, the handsome guys don't usually date beautiful women, the gorgeous girls are taken by average looking men. This would never happen if the looks were decisive. And don't think it's about his wealth or something else. It's about social skills.

More, if girls are being approached by an ugly guy, their expectations will be very low. If the guy is handsome, they will expect him to be a good seducer. So you can use this to your advantage. Approach them, you will get tested a lot and blown off by them, but if you learn how to deal with objections (just read the article on GC ;) ), the girls will think like "damn! 5min ago I wouldn't have even looked at this guy, but now I am interested to see what he can bring to the table."

Look at this from another perspective:

If you want to be an engineer, you have to be good with numbers, good at maths. True. But do you have to be a math genius? No! You just have to be good and still make a killer career in engineering. If you have the gift for numbers then great, you can be a rock star, but what if you don't? You shouldn't even try to become an engineer? We wouldn't have engineers in this world if you had to be the best of the best to do this profession. And it's the same with every single human activity, including women. It's like saying that you must be Leonardo DiCaprio to approach women... We would all die virgins and the human race would be extinct.

Now this is very important my friend!:

If you keep living your life thinking that you can't get girls because you weren't lucky enough to be born handsome, you will live as a victim. And living your life with victim mentality is the worst thing you can do to yourself. It disempowers you, it takes away your initiative and you will always be the result of the circumstance, not a creator. And pssssst.. ..women can SMELL LACK OF POWER MILES AWAY! So my advice to you is: 1 stop being a victim.

How? by doing the nº 2: accept responsibility: It's not your responsibility that your weren't born with the best genetics. But if you want to change your life, get a girlfriend and be happy, it's your responsibility, from this moment, to do your absolute best to become good with women, no matter what you will have to go through. You can't change the past, but you have the control over your future.

Best!

PS: Mate and for Christ sake, quit the fucking dating apps! Delete that shit from your phone right now. Approach in person! Don't hide behind a smartphone screen my friend, this won't solve your issues! Only approaching in person will make you good with women. If you don't have the looks then it will def be tough for you to get matches and shit.. because 94% of communication is non verbal!!! You must use your NON-VERBAL COMMUNICATION, not the superficial photos that say nothing about you to the girl.


Hey thanks for this post. It's really eye opening and I should think about it. The part about women having low expectations from an ugly guy is going to really help my mindset. Well, it just seems like cold approach isn't done in the city/country that I live in and I have never in fact witnessed it in person. Are you sure that I should try it? I've read about dealing with objections and I should be fine there. But something about approaching around here seems incorrect or incongruent.
strictlyincreasing


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby razir110 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:32 pm

Mate think about this,

How many times you were looking at a girl and didn't talk to her?
How many times you overcame the fear of approaching and went to talk and got rejected?

Now think of the way you feel about it later on. Personally I have no problem with rejection. It's fine, you are a stranger that approached her out of the blue, she owe you nothing, she doesn't have to be nice to you or to date you or anything. She has her full right to reject you and as I said, it's fine, I did my job, I am not a panda I don't have to be liked by everyone.

But now think about the feeling you have after not approaching. I fucking hate that feeling. Like "man she was there and you didn't have the courage to open" this feeling is what bothers me the most, I absolutely hate it. And probably so do you.

How do you prefer to feel then? as the guy who tried and got rejected which is no big deal or the guy who didn't have the balls to try and now is thinking about what could have happened?

So approach is the only solution.

About the part that it's not normal in your country, well unless you live in Saudi Arabia or a place where it's just socially unacceptable, then girls will love your cold approach if it's not really done over there. Women love to be approached and even if you fuck it up you will get respect from her as the guy who at least had the balls to say hi.

When I say about the low expectations, just use it as a way to not think about the looks, because those you can trim but not change. Think about the social skills. These are something you can drastically improve at.
razir110


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:54 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Big Daddy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:47 pm

strictlyincreasing wrote:The first guy would look skinny with clothes on. He would struggle bald. The second guy is a trick photo because it's well known that we associate his style with a hipster beard and haircut. But, in my opinion, both would struggle while bald.


If you're benching 225+ lb for sets of 5, you're already "hot" for 99% of girls, probably excluding those who are into bodybuilding. It's a nice surprise when she touches your body or you take off your shirt.

If you want to look bigger in clothes go bear mode and allow yourself to be 15-20% bf. Now you said something about your style, which brings us to the bolded part. Consider this as well...

I tried the beard and, because I already have a tough looking face, it looked very extreme. People hesitated to make eye contact with me, for example.


I think you read some of these reports online where the girl is extremely receptive to the guy and assume it must be the same with every girl. This is not the case at all. Most of the time it's just that out the hundreds of girls that the guy ran into, that particular one was SUPER into him.

If you let your beard grow, you are indeed going to become very polarizing, but that's something you want to do. Sure, a lot of girls will be turned off by that. But a few will go crazy. A girl friend of mine only go for bearded fatty men, because according to her, they're "real men."

(Make sure the girls you appeal to are the ones you're attracted to. Learn what your type of girl values then become that guy.)

But you have to able to dial back on that polarization if it's too much. That hipster outfit might help give a more friendly feel to you. Or maybe a pair of eyeglasses instead of contact. However if you are jacked, bald and bearded no one is going to assume you're a nerd. I have long hair, which is more feminine, so I also have a beard to balance it out.

The Rock is actually a great example. He's giant and super jacked but he's super friendly and approachable. No one in their right mind would label him a pussy though. You have to experiment and find what works for you and the type of girls you want to attract in your life.

P.S. to attract girls on Tinder you gotta be either Brad Pitt or a monk, because if you're not a model you'll have to be patient to swipe through thousands of girls. Cold approach is hard but it's a time shortcut in that sense.
Big Daddy

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby mindful » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:57 pm

I think looks / physique is important. Probably less so in college / teen years but as you get older you should be working on your physical appearance and working out.

I went from scrawny 125 lbs to about 150 lbs right now (30 yrs old). I feel a lot better because I know I'm not "skinny" anymore and have a more fit look. My goal is to be 155-160.

I also feel way more confident around girls and it defintely helps with attraction.

Looks play less a role if you are higher status in some way.
mindful


Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:33 pm

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Space » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:15 am

Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:07 pm
Location: The Old Continent

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:55 pm

Big Daddy wrote:
strictlyincreasing wrote:The first guy would look skinny with clothes on. He would struggle bald. The second guy is a trick photo because it's well known that we associate his style with a hipster beard and haircut. But, in my opinion, both would struggle while bald.


If you're benching 225+ lb for sets of 5, you're already "hot" for 99% of girls, probably excluding those who are into bodybuilding. It's a nice surprise when she touches your body or you take off your shirt.

If you want to look bigger in clothes go bear mode and allow yourself to be 15-20% bf. Now you said something about your style, which brings us to the bolded part. Consider this as well...

I tried the beard and, because I already have a tough looking face, it looked very extreme. People hesitated to make eye contact with me, for example.


I think you read some of these reports online where the girl is extremely receptive to the guy and assume it must be the same with every girl. This is not the case at all. Most of the time it's just that out the hundreds of girls that the guy ran into, that particular one was SUPER into him.

If you let your beard grow, you are indeed going to become very polarizing, but that's something you want to do. Sure, a lot of girls will be turned off by that. But a few will go crazy. A girl friend of mine only go for bearded fatty men, because according to her, they're "real men."

(Make sure the girls you appeal to are the ones you're attracted to. Learn what your type of girl values then become that guy.)

But you have to able to dial back on that polarization if it's too much. That hipster outfit might help give a more friendly feel to you. Or maybe a pair of eyeglasses instead of contact. However if you are jacked, bald and bearded no one is going to assume you're a nerd. I have long hair, which is more feminine, so I also have a beard to balance it out.

The Rock is actually a great example. He's giant and super jacked but he's super friendly and approachable. No one in their right mind would label him a pussy though. You have to experiment and find what works for you and the type of girls you want to attract in your life.

P.S. to attract girls on Tinder you gotta be either Brad Pitt or a monk, because if you're not a model you'll have to be patient to swipe through thousands of girls. Cold approach is hard but it's a time shortcut in that sense.


I can bench 225lb for 5 reps and my physique is similar to Kevin without a shirt. It hasn't made a difference. Almost none of the women that I got on dates from the dating apps cared at all. The type of girls that I'm into are the conservative type who come from a close family, have a good job or are hoping for one and don't do much partying/drinking, and prefer to stay home and watch TV or read a book. All I know is that people like that did not even give me eye contact when I had the beard. It was only other tough men who did. For the type of women that I'm into, all I know is that they date guys with good medium length hair. Extreme hairstyles don't go down well with them, as far as I can tell.

All I am saying is that on most LRs here, it looks like the woman selected the guy first by giving him a very clear approach indication. I'm looking around for any of those and they don't seem to come. All I can think that it could be are my looks. The Rock doesn't count for our examples because he's a movie star.
strictlyincreasing


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby razir110 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:52 pm

Man you've received like 50 reasons on why you should just cold approach and a bunch of advice on how to look better. All I read from you is that your not their type bla bla.

I don't want to be harsh on you, but you seem to come here searching for validation of your self-inflicted negativity.

You are being a victim right now. Go back to my reply and re-read it...
razir110


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:54 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Michal » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:11 am

I will add one more thing to the discussion. Women are very atuned to emotions, feeleings and vibes. Emotions are an energy. There are different levels of that, I found this about 2 years ago as reference from someone, not sure from whom really:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHIgOGuUIAANBEm.jpg
Image
You can google different frequencies and emotions for more info.
I am a fairly sensitive guy so I can tell easily based on the energy of the person they exude and that there is some truth to that cone in the picture above.

You will never hear this in real life because guys just take everything at face value. It is always "get more money, get buff, get a car, get a house, buy these clothes, lift this much, score this many goals in a match, have this amount of followers". To some extent, you should do these, you need to a place to live, you should lift weights because it has trendemous effects on your psyche and body and nowadays, we men, do not have that many opportunities to do purely physical stuff and get in touch with our physical side in general.

How does this tie to looks?
Think about the difference of the energy you put out when you feel like million bucks. You probably just did something that had a great impact on the world. Like your actions can influence your surroundings. You will have that good posture and head held high naturally. That is the looks part that women like. Same with confidence. Women do not give a shit about confidence itself. But it is a sign of success, sign that what you do in life actually brings back rewards.

And yes, you can influence a lot of that but not by focusing on alternating the atoms in your body to have different interactions with each other and different frequency.
But by stuff like deciding what you want to achieve in your life and going after it. Once you have it, you will walk with purpose, you will naturally waste less time, be more efficient etc.
Btw. changing your vibe takes time. There are definitely things that will make the change happen faster but the instruments of that are different for each one of us. For me, it was getting a driver's licence, finishing master's degree in university and then getting a job. Looking back, probably because I lived the life that my parents designed for me. But even after getting the job, my male friends kept saying I am much more confident. And if they notice, women notice too. So you should strive toward being in control of your life really. To go after something that you want or feel that you need. You cannot fulfill the needs of someone else if you did not fulfill yours yet. You can temporarily, but not in a long term really.

And one last argument to all the looks stuff.. look at Christian Bale. Look at all his different transformations. Same guy, but with different look, he just comes across as a completely different guy. Just to let you know that you have control over all this, except for how wide apart your eyes are and stuff like that.
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... &strip=all
Image

http://www.stylisheve.com/wp-content/up ... 013_01.jpg
Image

https://images.tmz.com/2017/09/06/0906- ... etty-7.jpg
Image

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10 ... 073262.jpg
Image

https://1gr.cz/fotky/bulvar/15/081/org/ ... 074871.jpg
Image

https://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/ ... bale-2.jpg
Image

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/61/b7 ... 7b2544.jpg
Image
Michal


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:49 pm

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Big Daddy » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:57 pm

@ si

Listen, I never had blatant IOIs too, or at least not that I can't recognize, but I fuck girls just fine. I get what you are saying because it seems like they are so lucky but a) you don't need it to fuck girls b) chances are you're bad at reading signs too.

At this point we've given every rational reason to convince you of the contrary, and now you'll have to make a choice: either throw everything the we've said out of the window and continue to think like you do and accept the results you have, or try to chance your mind and see if you can get different results.

P.S. I know a beautiful Hardvard-intelectual type who drools over guys with bodies like the one I've linked to. She also has been a relationship with a scrawny guy with a beer gut for several years.
Big Daddy

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:02 pm

razir110 wrote:Man you've received like 50 reasons on why you should just cold approach and a bunch of advice on how to look better. All I read from you is that your not their type bla bla.

I don't want to be harsh on you, but you seem to come here searching for validation of your self-inflicted negativity.

You are being a victim right now. Go back to my reply and re-read it...


I think that you're right. Cold approach is better than everything else. But where would I find the kind of women that I am into?



Michal wrote:I will add one more thing to the discussion. Women are very atuned to emotions, feeleings and vibes. Emotions are an energy. There are different levels of that, I found this about 2 years ago as reference from someone, not sure from whom really:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHIgOGuUIAANBEm.jpg
Image
You can google different frequencies and emotions for more info.
I am a fairly sensitive guy so I can tell easily based on the energy of the person they exude and that there is some truth to that cone in the picture above.

You will never hear this in real life because guys just take everything at face value. It is always "get more money, get buff, get a car, get a house, buy these clothes, lift this much, score this many goals in a match, have this amount of followers". To some extent, you should do these, you need to a place to live, you should lift weights because it has trendemous effects on your psyche and body and nowadays, we men, do not have that many opportunities to do purely physical stuff and get in touch with our physical side in general.

How does this tie to looks?
Think about the difference of the energy you put out when you feel like million bucks. You probably just did something that had a great impact on the world. Like your actions can influence your surroundings. You will have that good posture and head held high naturally. That is the looks part that women like. Same with confidence. Women do not give a shit about confidence itself. But it is a sign of success, sign that what you do in life actually brings back rewards.

And yes, you can influence a lot of that but not by focusing on alternating the atoms in your body to have different interactions with each other and different frequency.
But by stuff like deciding what you want to achieve in your life and going after it. Once you have it, you will walk with purpose, you will naturally waste less time, be more efficient etc.
Btw. changing your vibe takes time. There are definitely things that will make the change happen faster but the instruments of that are different for each one of us. For me, it was getting a driver's licence, finishing master's degree in university and then getting a job. Looking back, probably because I lived the life that my parents designed for me. But even after getting the job, my male friends kept saying I am much more confident. And if they notice, women notice too. So you should strive toward being in control of your life really. To go after something that you want or feel that you need. You cannot fulfill the needs of someone else if you did not fulfill yours yet. You can temporarily, but not in a long term really.

And one last argument to all the looks stuff.. look at Christian Bale. Look at all his different transformations. Same guy, but with different look, he just comes across as a completely different guy. Just to let you know that you have control over all this, except for how wide apart your eyes are and stuff like that.
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... &strip=all
Image

http://www.stylisheve.com/wp-content/up ... 013_01.jpg
Image

https://images.tmz.com/2017/09/06/0906- ... etty-7.jpg
Image

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10 ... 073262.jpg
Image

https://1gr.cz/fotky/bulvar/15/081/org/ ... 074871.jpg
Image

https://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/ ... bale-2.jpg
Image

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/61/b7 ... 7b2544.jpg
Image


Thanks for that message. That's a really interesting cone. I'm going to look at what my life view is on certain days and work backwards.

Well I do have good posture because of my special mobility routine. And, as mentioned, I am in shape. I'm due to start a very high status job soon. But none of those looks that you posted except for the last one are accessible to me because I'm bald.

It seems like the best thing for me to do is to try cold approach and ignore the fact that I don't seem to get approach invitations. Is that the way to go?
strictlyincreasing


Space Monkey
Space Monkey
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Marty » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:05 am

Big Daddy wrote:If you're benching 225+ lb for sets of 5, you're already "hot" for 99% of girls, probably excluding those who are into bodybuilding. It's a nice surprise when she touches your body or you take off your shirt.

Not sure about benching but here are my latest numbers, am I "hot"? :-D
ImageImageImage
Marty

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Big Daddy » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:24 am

Hey Marty,

It's hard to say! If you try to predict your max while doing sets of more than 5 reps it starts to skew the results. It's also hard to progressive while doing high reps. Is there any reason behind doing sets of 20? (And also not doing free weights?)
Big Daddy

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Are looks really so unimportant?

Postby Marty » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:52 pm

Hi Big Daddy

I chose to do this new thing called eGym because it tells you exactly what you need to do. That is what I need, as I am not an enthusiastic workout person. In the past when I have joined a gym I have sort of wandered around not really knowing what to try in the weights area, and ended up just doing a lot of cardio.

This system makes you do 2 sets of 8 exercises, measures everything and tracks your progress. It also adjusts the seat and the weight for you when you log in so there is no wasted time. Basically you can do the 2 circuits in 30 minutes and get out of there. You only get 50 seconds rest time between each set. It's actually what motivated me to join this gym, and I keep going back several times a week, it really works for me.

At the beginning a trainer helps you set it up. I don't know whether she wanted me to do 20 reps or whether the system automatically allocated that to me based on my strength measurement. But I have to say it is about right, after 20 reps I am worn out and ready to move onto the next thing. I don't think I could do 21!

I think it measures your max strength and sets the bar at 40%-50% of that for the 20 reps. Every 6 workouts it switches to negative training and you do that for only 15 reps.

The computer has asked me to remeasure my max strength twice since I jointed, and each time it has gone up on all the stations.

So I have no idea whether there is any reason behind doing 20 reps, as far as I am concerned I am the least knowledgeable party among myself, the lady who set it up, and the computer.

-Marty
Marty

User avatar

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
 
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Europe


Return to General

AVAILABLE PROGRAMS

girls chase programs eBook Video Mastery Package Phone Coaching w/ Cody Lyans Email Coaching w/ Cody Lyans

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests