How important is college education in having high-quality people in life?

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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311
So basically I am happy to improve myself in all areas of my life, except formal education. One thing I do not want to do is go to college. I'm 24, and a high school grad, and quite content with it. I want to travel a lot, have friends and gfs all over the world, and live in a way which is not possible if I get a traditional job. So I just don't see any utility in getting an education.

However, that is also my biggest concern. At this point I'm unsure what kinds of people I want in my life cause I've not spent enough time with different kinds of people. However, I want to keep the options open. In a few years, I see myself making 100K a year, having good physique, playing two instruments fairly decently, visiting at least 5 countries, speaking beginner level French and Spanish, being a good conversationalist and having solid fundamentals.

What I'm really concerned about is, are these enough to get long term friends and GFs who have perhaps Masters or Phds (I'm fine with high school grad friends and GFs too if they are successful and ambitious and other things are going for them, but I don't want someone who is happy being a waitress or construction worker). I'm not as smart to understand quantum physics or economics by any means, but I think I'll be able to hold my own with scientists and the likes by watching YouTube videos that explain things in layman terms, so long as they do not divulge into technical jargon.

So what am I looking at here? Will not going to college severely limit the kind of people I have in my life, or can I improve myself enough to make my education level a non-issue. In your experience, what percentage of doctors, lawyers, bankers, CEOs, accountants etc. will dismiss me immediately the moment they find out I never went to college?

I'm open to considering college in case in your experience you've found it to be extremely important, but only as an absolute last resort.
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
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2,092
If you are in a field that hires based on college degrees then very important. The fact you mention people with Masters and PhD's means you attach value to those degrees. Typically you develop those friends through professional societies. Being in a professional society generally involves qualifying through knowledge (tests), degrees, or years of experience.

Now if you are an entrepreneur, you can use people with those degrees to help you develop and market your ideas and products. But in that case, your friends are going to be other entrepreneurs who achieve the same level of success you are at in your life. If there is one thing that is true, a successful businessman can sniff out an imposter who is all show and no go , braggadocious and flashy.

I have a number of friends in our local community who will say, "I don't have a fancy degree from a prestigious university, but I hire people who do."
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
311
Fuck This,

I attach value to education yes, the assumption is that the person actually knows and cares about his field of education, and is passionate about his or her subject. That makes them fascinating in my eyes. In case someone hated their education and hates their job, I don't think I'll value them much.

I understand common ground is important. However, what do you think about meeting a highly educated and successful professional during a vacation, in a hobby class, in the grocery store, in a hotel lobby etc. Can a guy ever have enough charm and conversation skills to turn them into lifelong friends and connections, despite his lack of education and common professional background?
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
6,553
sneaky_charm,

If you want tribalism and superficial attention: Get a college education and be 'meh' like many.

I meet my President with hardwork.
I liaise with other schools with hardwork.
I get Chase Amante to message me back when i got intermediate.
I get RSD Madison to follow me.
I get PAtrick Bet David to put a comment on my non pc instagram.
I get RSD Luke to follow me.
I dated girls with higher education than me. A lot of them are diploma or degree holders.

All this above are important stats, and i do get
lost in them, but it doesn't mean anything unless i do something
or they do something with me.


If you go to college and learn a skill (doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc)? Yes. Go for it.
If you go to college and learn 'gender studies' per se? You aiming for tribalism and superficial attention. Might be what you want if you like the spotlight. No right or wrong

Zac
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
311
Hey Zac,

So you're saying despite my lack of college education I should be able to make highly educated and successful friends?

Also, out of curiosity, how did you end up meeting the president? I'd love to hear the story.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
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Messages
5,480
Sneaky-

The guy I knew with the most high quality successful friends only had a G.E.D. Dated women with advanced educations. Etc.

But he also had an incredibly dynamic personality and was a creative and philosophical genius.

I knew one other guy with only a high school education who would often date educated women. This guy was dumb as rocks on paper but very street smart, good-looking, and charming. His relationships tended to be fairly short though... women would eventually kick him out of their apartments and he'd need to find someone else to glom onto.

Both guys actually were 'glommers', in that they would really glom onto people and suck them into their worlds. And get people to give them stuff... lots of stuff. Money, housing, allegiance, you name it.

I haven't known anyone else with a high school degree only who ran/runs in the circles I tend run in... college educated, professional folks. Or entrepreneurs. Everyone else I know has a college degree. So those two guys are my only model for "high school degree, wants to be around people with higher educations than him."

Now, I only have a bachelor's. But I spend a lot of time around people with master's and PhDs. So I also do this to an extent - bringing people who have higher educations than myself in. But I feel like it's a bigger leap from high school diploma only to degree-holding professional friends and girlfriends than it is from bachelor's degree only to higher degree-holding professional friends and girlfriends.

It's more about how people think than anything. People who haven't passed through the university system very, very rarely think about things the same way those who have passed through it do. I don't know if it's necessarily that university gives you different ways of thinking about and interacting with the world and other people. Or if it's that there's selection bias in play, and the people who attend university are the ones who think this certain way. I definitely remember a couple guys who dropped out my freshman year of university, and thinking "these guys don't really seem like the university sorts" before they dropped out. Although there were a few others who didn't seem the university sort who made it to graduation.

But anyway, that's my model for how you make it with highly educated / very professional people if you do not have a classical education. Be a dynamic, talented 'glommer'... or I suppose there's another route, which I haven't seen in-person, but you can see it with a guy like Henry Ford: get successful enough that you can hire all the highly educated professional people you want.

Beyond that, if you want access to these people, the safest bet is to do what everyone else who wants access to these people does, which is get a college degree.

Think of a college degree in this sense as your "I'm a Member" card. If you don't have it, usually you can't get in. But if you have a bunch of money or you're extremely socially skilled + have some other awesome trait (like brilliance or charm), you might be able to talk your way in (even still, you are still always dealing with some degree of 'outsider factor').

I don't know you, but one of these may be a fit for you. Maybe that's the reason your handle is "sneak charm", eh?

Chase
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
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Messages
311
Hey Chase,

I haven't known anyone else with a high school degree only who ran/runs in the circles I tend run in... college educated, professional folks. Or entrepreneurs. Everyone else I know has a college degree. So those two guys are my only model for "high school degree, wants to be around people with higher educations than him."

Personally I want to be around college educated people because I like reading, and want people who do too. I suppose most folks who are not college educated fall into these 3 categories:

1. Those who couldn't get into college because their grades weren't good enough
2. Those who see college as useless and as something that pretentious people go to
3. Those who wanted to go but couldn't for financial or other reasons

The first two categories are most likely to hold dead-end jobs their whole life. Probably never read a book outside of high school. I DO NOT want such people in my life.

The third category is probably ambitious, and is very likely to move up the ladder too if they work hard enough. Probably reads too. So I'm okay with having these people IF they have ambition.

Personally, I had the chance to go to college. I didn't because I chose online entrepreneurship and college education will not help me at all when it comes to career. I wasn't the smartest, but can probably get into Top 100 - 150 national universities in the US.

Also, I tend to feel totally okay with college educated women, no inferiority complex or nothing, so I believe getting educated girlfriends may be possible. But I'm more concerned about guys, who often attach more value to credentials and hierarchies.

Now, I only have a bachelor's. But I spend a lot of time around people with master's and PhDs. So I also do this to an extent - bringing people who have higher educations than myself in. But I feel like it's a bigger leap from high school diploma only to degree-holding professional friends and girlfriends than it is from bachelor's degree only to higher degree-holding professional friends and girlfriends.

I totally understand. I thought about this too in the past. Bachelor's seems sufficient for most things, it's college after all.

It's more about how people think than anything. People who haven't passed through the university system very, very rarely think about things the same way those who have passed through it do. I don't know if it's necessarily that university gives you different ways of thinking about and interacting with the world and other people. Or if it's that there's selection bias in play, and the people who attend university are the ones who think this certain way.

What exactly do you mean by think differently? Can you give me examples? Cause in my mind, college just makes you more knowledgeable in your subjects, a person's character or personality doesn't change much after getting a degree. I may be very wrong though. Can you please give me a few examples of this difference in thinking pattern?

But anyway, that's my model for how you make it with highly educated / very professional people if you do not have a classical education. Be a dynamic, talented 'glommer'... or I suppose there's another route, which I haven't seen in-person, but you can see it with a guy like Henry Ford: get successful enough that you can hire all the highly educated professional people you want.

Haha I'm not counting on becoming a Henry Ford or a Richard Branson soon, just having like 100K a year. I do not want to be a glommer. Heck I get uncomfortable if I owe someone $20. Do you think it was their glomming that eventually got them kicked out when the girlfriends logically realised they were giving them too much?

Think of a college degree in this sense as your "I'm a Member" card. If you don't have it, usually you can't get in. But if you have a bunch of money or you're extremely socially skilled + have some other awesome trait (like brilliance or charm), you might be able to talk your way in (even still, you are still always dealing with some degree of 'outsider factor').

Well I'm only 2 years away from an Economics degree, but I do not understand or care about economics at all. I can get this degree just for paper credentials and to say to people "I have a college degree!" but that's the only purpose it will serve. Do you recommend I still resume my studies, get grades good enough to get by, and get this degree? It's Indian, 3-year long bachelor's degree. It's useless, but I can at least say I went to college. You think I should get it?
 

Chase

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Joined
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Messages
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I view an ordinary/decent college education as having primarily two (2) main benefits:

1. It's a credentialing system that tells other people you are part of "the club"

2. More importantly, what it teaches you to do is to be able to work for and alongside people inside an established productivity system. Show up on time, obey your superiors, follow the rules, prove yourself to others, navigate the system, build alliances, don't piss off powerful people or get yourself booted out.

If you go to a GOOD college, there's the added benefit of the network and career opportunities it affords you. Even if you don't have that though, benefits #s 1 and 2 still apply.

What #1 credentials you for is #2. You are someone who has learned to navigate a system that is significantly closer to "the real world" than high school is.

The difference in thinking I see between most high school-only folks versus college grads is this "able to navigate the system" thinking. My high school only friends often got very annoyed at "the system" and threw their hands up or tried ineffectual ways to get what they wanted, such as trying to persuade people with limited system-granted power to help them achieve their aims. They'd express frequent frustration at how stymied everything was by rules and processes and gatekeepers.

I certainly sympathize, and this was one of the reasons I didn't want to go to university initially... not liking to play by others' rules, bow my head before authorities I didn't necessarily agree should be authorities, complete a lot of nonsense tasks, etc. But it always struck me that my non-college friends had never really learned to navigate the system or use it to achieve their own goals. And as such were always more or less on the outside of it looking in, and not in good shape if they ended up in a "system fight" where they were head-to-head against someone who knew how to navigate and leverage the power of the system.

Thinking differences also manifested in a lot of ways. High school only friends tend to be more set in their views and say "You should do X" and often not be able to see why X is impractical for someone else even when it's explained. High school-only friends would more freely express politically and ideologically explosive opinions college-educated folks have learned they'd better distance themselves from if they don't want to be kicked to the outskirts of the system. High school-only friends, at least the ones I had, also tended to be a lot more impulsive, spend more, save less, and encourage everyone around them to do the same... thus falling into "bad influence" territory.

Again, I don't know what's cause and what's correlation on the thinking here. All I can say for certain is these are the patterns I've been able to observe.

sneaky_charm said:
Do you think it was their glomming that eventually got them kicked out when the girlfriends logically realised they were giving them too much?

Partly. This was a bigger problem for the dumb friend than the brilliant friend. Brilliant friend knew how to frame-control himself into control almost magically and kept a reality distortion field in place at all times. Women never broke up with him, so far as I know.

With the dumb friend though, yes. He'd ask for a lot, and give less - same as brilliant friend - but he was more aggressive in his asks and the value he provided in return was more noticeably less. So women would tire of him, and as soon as a woman starts to tire of you, all your flaws get amplified ("There's no future with this guy. He's just some dumb deadbeat who never went to school!").

sneaky_charm said:
Well I'm only 2 years away from an Economics degree, but I do not understand or care about economics at all. I can get this degree just for paper credentials and to say to people "I have a college degree!" but that's the only purpose it will serve. Do you recommend I still resume my studies, get grades good enough to get by, and get this degree? It's Indian, 3-year long bachelor's degree. It's useless, but I can at least say I went to college. You think I should get it?

Yes... economics, like most degrees, is not particularly useful. I like economists, but most economics degree holders do not get jobs in economics. And a lot of the more important concepts in economics you do not need a degree in economics to grasp. There's also a lot of strategy and psychology you need to supplement an understanding of economics with to really have a functional grasp of economics in, that is not taught in school.

(actually, if you want a fun, excellent, eye-opening crash course in economics, read this book: How an Economy Grows and Why It Crashes)

I dislike giving people "do this" or "don't do that" advice for major life decisions. I don't know you intimately enough to have a good feel for what I think is the best path for you. Even if I did, odds are there'd be things you felt or knew but hadn't communicated to me... maybe because you're not even consciously aware of those things yourself.

I would say this: if you feel extremely confident in the path you're on, and you are doing fine already with highly educated and professional people, you probably don't need a degree.

If you're less confident about it, but still confident, then maybe try your other path(s) for a few years, and if you still aren't getting where you want with social and professional ties, consider going back and completing your degree.

If you're on the fence, I'd just get the degree. If it's only a bachelor's you're getting you should have enough time to run a small-ish online business and study online marketing and whatnot in your downtime. By the time you graduate you have the foundations of a good business in place, and you have the degree credential and have learned enough "system thinking" to avoid the system snags you deal with.

Also, one other anecdote... this didn't matter so much for when Girls Chase was smaller. But as we have grown larger, I've found myself needing more and more to deal with big, dumb, inefficient corporations with various walls and gatekeepers to accomplish what we want, for things like advertising, hiring, etc. And I have found we have increasingly needed to build internal systems (that hopefully are less dumb than most mega corps') to manage all the things happening in the business.

I find myself reflecting on college more as I do this. Especially various case studies from business school.

Funny thing was I spent my 4 years business consulting after university saying "I can't believe I went to college for this. Everything I'm doing here I could've done straight out of high school."

But now that I am a business owner I find myself valuing college more.

Chase
 

Sub-Zero

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
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Messages
836
Would you say that any degree would be good to have to be apart of the club Chase? I plan on doing the business route while in school because face it, I'm not cut out for stem or anything requiring high level math, if I actually kept at high level math there would be a lot of failing and time I would use and I would not like that at all. It would probably take me 4-6 more years to even get a decent degee, when I can finish something else in 2, I'm not trying to postpone making money that long, so I will get any degree I can, and have my business before I graduate.

What are the smallish online businesses you had in mind ?


Chase said:
I view an ordinary/decent college education as having primarily two (2) main benefits:

1. It's a credentialing system that tells other people you are part of "the club"

2. More importantly, what it teaches you to do is to be able to work for and alongside people inside an established productivity system. Show up on time, obey your superiors, follow the rules, prove yourself to others, navigate the system, build alliances, don't piss off powerful people or get yourself booted out.

If you go to a GOOD college, there's the added benefit of the network and career opportunities it affords you. Even if you don't have that though, benefits #s 1 and 2 still apply.

What #1 credentials you for is #2. You are someone who has learned to navigate a system that is significantly closer to "the real world" than high school is.

The difference in thinking I see between most high school-only folks versus college grads is this "able to navigate the system" thinking. My high school only friends often got very annoyed at "the system" and threw their hands up or tried ineffectual ways to get what they wanted, such as trying to persuade people with limited system-granted power to help them achieve their aims. They'd express frequent frustration at how stymied everything was by rules and processes and gatekeepers.

I certainly sympathize, and this was one of the reasons I didn't want to go to university initially... not liking to play by others' rules, bow my head before authorities I didn't necessarily agree should be authorities, complete a lot of nonsense tasks, etc. But it always struck me that my non-college friends had never really learned to navigate the system or use it to achieve their own goals. And as such were always more or less on the outside of it looking in, and not in good shape if they ended up in a "system fight" where they were head-to-head against someone who knew how to navigate and leverage the power of the system.

Thinking differences also manifested in a lot of ways. High school only friends tend to be more set in their views and say "You should do X" and often not be able to see why X is impractical for someone else even when it's explained. High school-only friends would more freely express politically and ideologically explosive opinions college-educated folks have learned they'd better distance themselves from if they don't want to be kicked to the outskirts of the system. High school-only friends, at least the ones I had, also tended to be a lot more impulsive, spend more, save less, and encourage everyone around them to do the same... thus falling into "bad influence" territory.

Again, I don't know what's cause and what's correlation on the thinking here. All I can say for certain is these are the patterns I've been able to observe.

sneaky_charm said:
Do you think it was their glomming that eventually got them kicked out when the girlfriends logically realised they were giving them too much?

Partly. This was a bigger problem for the dumb friend than the brilliant friend. Brilliant friend knew how to frame-control himself into control almost magically and kept a reality distortion field in place at all times. Women never broke up with him, so far as I know.

With the dumb friend though, yes. He'd ask for a lot, and give less - same as brilliant friend - but he was more aggressive in his asks and the value he provided in return was more noticeably less. So women would tire of him, and as soon as a woman starts to tire of you, all your flaws get amplified ("There's no future with this guy. He's just some dumb deadbeat who never went to school!").

sneaky_charm said:
Well I'm only 2 years away from an Economics degree, but I do not understand or care about economics at all. I can get this degree just for paper credentials and to say to people "I have a college degree!" but that's the only purpose it will serve. Do you recommend I still resume my studies, get grades good enough to get by, and get this degree? It's Indian, 3-year long bachelor's degree. It's useless, but I can at least say I went to college. You think I should get it?

Yes... economics, like most degrees, is not particularly useful. I like economists, but most economics degree holders do not get jobs in economics. And a lot of the more important concepts in economics you do not need a degree in economics to grasp. There's also a lot of strategy and psychology you need to supplement an understanding of economics with to really have a functional grasp of economics in, that is not taught in school.

(actually, if you want a fun, excellent, eye-opening crash course in economics, read this book: How an Economy Grows and Why It Crashes)

I dislike giving people "do this" or "don't do that" advice for major life decisions. I don't know you intimately enough to have a good feel for what I think is the best path for you. Even if I did, odds are there'd be things you felt or knew but hadn't communicated to me... maybe because you're not even consciously aware of those things yourself.

I would say this: if you feel extremely confident in the path you're on, and you are doing fine already with highly educated and professional people, you probably don't need a degree.

If you're less confident about it, but still confident, then maybe try your other path(s) for a few years, and if you still aren't getting where you want with social and professional ties, consider going back and completing your degree.

If you're on the fence, I'd just get the degree. If it's only a bachelor's you're getting you should have enough time to run a small-ish online business and study online marketing and whatnot in your downtime. By the time you graduate you have the foundations of a good business in place, and you have the degree credential and have learned enough "system thinking" to avoid the system snags you deal with.

Also, one other anecdote... this didn't matter so much for when Girls Chase was smaller. But as we have grown larger, I've found myself needing more and more to deal with big, dumb, inefficient corporations with various walls and gatekeepers to accomplish what we want, for things like advertising, hiring, etc. And I have found we have increasingly needed to build internal systems (that hopefully are less dumb than most mega corps') to manage all the things happening in the business.

I find myself reflecting on college more as I do this. Especially various case studies from business school.

Funny thing was I spent my 4 years business consulting after university saying "I can't believe I went to college for this. Everything I'm doing here I could've done straight out of high school."

But now that I am a business owner I find myself valuing college more.

Chase
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Joined
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Messages
6,553
sneaky_charm,

Chase explain it better than i do.
I love to explain how i met my President.

I was in school at the time, join a dance club, went all out for 1 year. Got invited to teach at two schools. One at community center, and one at a youth center. Went to put on a show for the youth center.

Got a letter invited, noted that we are invited to perform opening act for President's charity. :) People might say it is no biggie. But no one got invited like we did. :)

But Chase mention one thing that is key. "It's more what people think.".

My advice: University builds you long term resistance. Meaning that you stick with something longer than people like me. If we suppose to attend maths lessons, you probably attend 9 out 10 lessons

and Zac only attends 4 lessons.


But here's where my pain body comes in: I have done almost everything to be the good employee. Here's the secret:

1/3 Politics, Playing your role per se
1/3 Work
1/3 What People Want

My personal experience: The earth we living is a people's world.
Meaning, if you are good at bullshitting, like Trump, you win.
Bullshitting means to move people from point A to point B, mentally. Reality? Wait, what's reality?

People triumph at the present moment. This is the secret to life.



Zac
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
311
Chase,

I dislike giving people "do this" or "don't do that" advice for major life decisions. I don't know you intimately enough to have a good feel for what I think is the best path for you. Even if I did, odds are there'd be things you felt or knew but hadn't communicated to me... maybe because you're not even consciously aware of those things yourself.

I would say this: if you feel extremely confident in the path you're on, and you are doing fine already with highly educated and professional people, you probably don't need a degree.

If you're less confident about it, but still confident, then maybe try your other path(s) for a few years, and if you still aren't getting where you want with social and professional ties, consider going back and completing your degree.

If you're on the fence, I'd just get the degree. If it's only a bachelor's you're getting you should have enough time to run a small-ish online business and study online marketing and whatnot in your downtime. By the time you graduate you have the foundations of a good business in place, and you have the degree credential and have learned enough "system thinking" to avoid the system snags you deal with.

Do you think a 3-year long degree that is not recognized in many parts of the world will still let me be a part of 'the club'? I mean it's still a Bachelor's, at least on paper.

I think the reason I do not want a degree is because I have grown to dislike my country's way of teaching. You attend lectures, memorize at home, write your exam. NOTHING ELSE HAPPENS. NOTHING ELSE. So learning to navigate the system won't happen if my degree is Indian. I think subconsciously I just don't want to be 'just like them', them being people who are okay with an education system which most of the world considers subpar. The moment I get a Bachelor's, it's like being okay with the fact that the education system in my country sucks. It's almost like going against my values, what I believe in. Doesn't make much sense I know, but internally I guess that's my resistance and aversion toward it.

Well I suppose I can always get this degree now and then do a 4-year in US or similar later in life. But, I don't know if I really want 4 years of useless effort that will not help me in career in any way, at least as long as I stick to my present plan of not holding a job ever.

About confidence, I'm fairly confident. However, that is almost irrelevant. I want to spend most of my life in multiple countries, 2, 3 or more countries per year, and a traditional job won't let me do it. Having an online business or offline business which I can control from afar are my ONLY viable options, considering the kind of lifestyle I want, or at least seem to want at this point.
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
311
Zac,

I was in school at the time, join a dance club, went all out for 1 year. Got invited to teach at two schools. One at community center, and one at a youth center. Went to put on a show for the youth center.

Got a letter invited, noted that we are invited to perform opening act for President's charity. :) People might say it is no biggie. But no one got invited like we did. :)

But Chase mention one thing that is key. "It's more what people think.".

My advice: University builds you long term resistance. Meaning that you stick with something longer than people like me. If we suppose to attend maths lessons, you probably attend 9 out 10 lessons

and Zac only attends 4 lessons.


But here's where my pain body comes in: I have done almost everything to be the good employee. Here's the secret:

1/3 Politics, Playing your role per se
1/3 Work
1/3 What People Want

My personal experience: The earth we living is a people's world.
Meaning, if you are good at bullshitting, like Trump, you win.
Bullshitting means to move people from point A to point B, mentally. Reality? Wait, what's reality?

Meeting the President seems cool. I bet your dance moves are in order. ;)

Yes I get you about reality being subjective, heard the talk by Julien. I think you're right. But I'm just looking for ways to make my path as easy as possible, have my affairs in order.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
5,480
@sneaky_charm-

Yeah, an Indian university education does sound awful.

A degree is still a degree, at least socially. When I meet someone from Country X with a degree, it's still a degree to me. And someone without a degree is someone without a degree.

Companies are a bit different. I had a girlfriend who got her bachelor's in South America. Then went to England for her master's because she wanted a Western degree. Even still, with a strategic finance degree from a good school in England, she still had to get recertified in the States for some of the work she wanted to do. There are other careers where you have to essentially start from scratch education-wise if you change countries... dentistry, for instance. Although doesn't sound like you're looking for company work, so that's moot.

Countries look at your level of educational attainment when deciding whether to let you travel or immigrate. And typically regions of the world with large populations and high impoverished rates, like India's, face higher travel/immigration barriers... but I'm not sure exactly how difficult or easy it is to travel abroad as an Indian without a college degree. Maybe it's not that hard.

All that said, it sounds like you're pretty certain you know what you want.

If I was you, with the level of certainty you seem to have, I'd just apply myself as hard as possible to business the next couple years and see if I couldn't get something to take off. Pour all the studying you'd do in school into studying your chosen field. Get yourself established, get your business built up, get it throwing off revenue, get your overseas lifestyle set. If for any reason things aren't going your way, you can always go back to school and finish your degree then.

Then also try to give yourself a classical education. Lubbock's List is an excellent place to start. Read a bunch of books from that list and you'll be better educated than most university grads in any country.

Once your business is a success and you're living overseas, I suspect you most likely won't have too many problems. You will still have issues with hierarchically-minded people who view academic pedigree as superior to any later successes, but I suspect you won't have too many of those people around you. I guess the main issue is most people who attend university, and especially those who attend long enough to get a master's or a PhD, are those most bought into the academic hierarchy system. But you can still find people who made it through that system, got their degrees, and are relatively free of hierarchy mentality (though they may still use it as a bludgeon against you in fights: "I can't BELIEVE you are trying to tell ME what to do! You don't even have an EDUCATION!").

On the positive side, once you're past maybe 25 or so, people aren't usually talking about school. Instead it's just "where are you from / what do you do." If you establish yourself as a successful businessman, impress people with your worldliness and erudition, and then they later find out you skipped university and went straight into business for yourself, it'll be more a curiosity than anything else ("Oh, I wouldn't have guessed").

So long as you can compensate for lacking a degree with business success and self-taught education, I think you should be fine with more educated/successful people (goes without saying, too, that you're not going to have any problems with people who also only have high school degrees, but I know that's not your target demographic).


@SZ-

Well, any degree gets you into "the club", sure. However, there are degrees of degrees.

Something like a 2-year trade school degree counts as "semi college" to someone from the professional world. You're not really a professional, but you're better than someone with only a high school degree.

A business degree from a community college is kind of like being lower middle class. It still counts, but if you're dealing with people with higher prestige educations they won't be very impressed.

Then you get 'soft' degrees from better schools. Someone with an education degree from, say, a Big 10 school, still went to a Big 10 school. But he got a degree in a soft field and is not as respectable.

Then you have someone with a respectable degree from a good school. Typically that's a STEM or a business degree. An engineering degree from Carnegie-Mellon, a finance degree from DePaul, an accounting degree from Cornell, pre-med at UCLA. These are the pretty high level degrees, and command the most respect from the most people.

At the completely elite echelon, you have Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Oxford, LSE, Cambridge, Dartmouth, Wake Forest, universities like this. You get a halo effect just for going there, even if the degree is 'soft'. However, soft degrees still have a penalty... most better educated professionals will respect someone with a finance degree from DePaul more than someone with an education degree from Yale.

Anyway. The only reason it makes sense to worry about the quality of the degree is if you plan to hobnob with highly educated people, you plan to rise through the ranks of a traditional career at high prestige firms, and/or you plan for a career in the public eye, where lots of people who don't know you will be judging you based on your academic pedigree.

If you're only going to school to learn a trade or get in the ground floor of a career, like most people, and aren't trying to rub elbows with the elites or be some respected public persona, all this credentialing business is not so important.

Sub-Zero said:
What are the smallish online businesses you had in mind ?

The kind where you sell stuff, and have to figure out where to find customers and get them to buy the stuff you have for sale. You can do that while in school. It's not going to be as successful as if you do it full time, unless you stumble onto a really awesome product/niche fit, or otherwise get incredibly lucky, but it'll let you build a foundation of experience in the online world, provided you have the spare time to do it without screwing up your studies.

Facebook and Microsoft both started this way, for instance (while their founders were in school). As did countless far smaller but still successful businesses.

Chase
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
311
Chase,

A degree is still a degree, at least socially. When I meet someone from Country X with a degree, it's still a degree to me. And someone without a degree is someone without a degree.

I get it. That should be the case anyways.

Companies are a bit different. I had a girlfriend who got her bachelor's in South America. Then went to England for her master's because she wanted a Western degree. Even still, with a strategic finance degree from a good school in England, she still had to get recertified in the States for some of the work she wanted to do. There are other careers where you have to essentially start from scratch education-wise if you change countries... dentistry, for instance. Although doesn't sound like you're looking for company work, so that's moot.

Unless I take a 180 degree, chances are I won't ever get a job. So the career thing doesn't apply. Hopefully.

Countries look at your level of educational attainment when deciding whether to let you travel or immigrate. And typically regions of the world with large populations and high impoverished rates, like India's, face higher travel/immigration barriers... but I'm not sure exactly how difficult or easy it is to travel abroad as an Indian without a college degree. Maybe it's not that hard.

Well education can be important while getting travel visa, but I suppose not too important if I do other things right. Proof of funds, return tickets, hotel bookings, detailed itinerary etc. Also, I look alright when dressed well, can speak English alright. So as long as I can show that I will return to my home country, things should be fine. US, UK and Europe can be hard, so my plan is to get about 5 immigration stamps, mostly Asian, before traveling to those. With 5 stamps they should trust me to not overstay I suppose.

Once your business is a success and you're living overseas, I suspect you most likely won't have too many problems. You will still have issues with hierarchically-minded people who view academic pedigree as superior to any later successes, but I suspect you won't have too many of those people around you. I guess the main issue is most people who attend university, and especially those who attend long enough to get a master's or a PhD, are those most bought into the academic hierarchy system. But you can still find people who made it through that system, got their degrees, and are relatively free of hierarchy mentality (though they may still use it as a bludgeon against you in fights: "I can't BELIEVE you are trying to tell ME what to do! You don't even have an EDUCATION!").

I guess I want to be around successful people who are also charming and socially savvy. My guess is that most socially savvy people will give me a chance, if I seem valuable enough in other ways. At least I hope so. I have immense respect for someone with a PhD who works 12 hours a day in the lab, but I want people who are versatile and not focused on just one thing. Besides, I'm unlikely to meet them in a hotel, a bar, in the steet etc. Also, everyone's story is a bit different, so the hierarchy-minded folks who aren't friendly to fairly successful people cause they lack education, I think I'll pass them. I guess my father is quite like that. He thinks a good degree and a respectable job is the shit. Anyone who isn't a lawyer, doctor, professor etc. he decides unworthy of his respect. Really weird and myopic view in my opinion. Anyway, still, what percentage of people have you found to be hierarchy-minded in your experience?

Haha yeah there's always the argument and shoving it on my face thing. But I'm trying to learn how to calm people down during arguments by being calm myself, asking clarifying questions etc. Also, the times I've gotten into arguments with non family members I can count on one finger. So guess rest of my life will be similar. That's just not me. In that sense I think I can be very passive. Well Hector will certainly not agree and tell me to be more aggressive lol.

At the completely elite echelon, you have Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Oxford, LSE, Cambridge, Dartmouth, Wake Forest, universities like this. You get a halo effect just for going there, even if the degree is 'soft'. However, soft degrees still have a penalty... most better educated professionals will respect someone with a finance degree from DePaul more than someone with an education degree from Yale.

Funny you mention Harvard and others. Well the reason I developed a kind of disdain for most of the Indian institutions (save the top business schools) is because in senior year I looked into the admission processes of Harvard and some others. It blew my mind how much they care about the PERSON they're letting in. Most Indian institutions just see exam marks and that's it. Anyway, so I realized it was too late to get into Harvard now haha cause I never tried my best in my formative years, and basically understood myself more and what I truly wanted and left studies.

Anyway. The only reason it makes sense to worry about the quality of the degree is if you plan to hobnob with highly educated people, you plan to rise through the ranks of a traditional career at high prestige firms, and/or you plan for a career in the public eye, where lots of people who don't know you will be judging you based on your academic pedigree.

I have no inclination to rise through the ranks in the corporate game or similar. I also don't require funding or any other career stuff. I'm just worried about turning them into friends, beating the shit with them, visit their house, invite them to my place, travel with them etc. Just friends, not business connections. What percentage do you think will NEVER convert cause of my education?
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
6,553
sneaky_charm,

DOn't come to Asia if your degree is from India. A lot of poly/degree holders here work 12hour shift, 6 day work weeks, doing blue collar work.

Basically, your workplace is your home.

Zac
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
311
So I decided to enroll. Seems like I'll have to start from the beginning, 3 years that is.

Opting for English major this time, instead of Economics. I chose economics initially to learn how money gets devalued and reverse, understand the share market a bit etc. But I found myself studying completely different things.

I find I'm much more interested in English, so since I want to get the degree just for the heck of it, I want to put as less effort as possible.

I'm opting to kill 5 birds with 1 stone :

1. My parents, relatives, and acquaintances keep pestering me to get a degree all the fucking time, so getting one will shut them down
2. I'm in my hometown which is super small and will need to stay here a while until I get my business up, so I can practice my socialization skills in a place with 1000+ people my age
3. Since it is not something I really want, it will hopefully increase my tolerance for doing things that I don't want to do but have to
4. It will officially let me become a part of 'the club'
5. I'll be able to understand and game small town girls, at least kisses and makeouts (as Chase noted, India has the lowest partner count of all or most countries, so sex is hard, at least in small places, also my logistics suck)

Thanks to everyone for contributing!

Now I'm confused about how to make my uniform work, I've posted it in the fashion sub-forum. Here is the link:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=18827
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
5,480
Cool stuff here, sneaky.

Question: still going to pursue setting up / learning your business while you're in school?

Don't know how Indian schools are. But at least in the States, I found I had a lot of downtime to do whatever during. (assuming you're doing it all on college loans, rather than working your way through. Not sure how it works in India)

When I was in school, I put most of that free time into making music. But you could for sure set a fledgling business up and get practice running it and figuring out how to deal with all the major early headaches in your downtime.

Chase
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
311
Hey Zac,

DOn't come to Asia if your degree is from India. A lot of poly/degree holders here work 12hour shift, 6 day work weeks, doing blue collar work.

Basically, your workplace is your home.

Haha you have a point. There are institutions that are pretty good in India and if you can pass out from there you can get a job in most countries. But, Indian blue collar workers is a real issue in Dubai, UK and many other parts. I'll take your advice and not go to Asia for work. ;)

Hey Chase,

Question: still going to pursue setting up / learning your business while you're in school?

Don't know how Indian schools are. But at least in the States, I found I had a lot of downtime to do whatever during. (assuming you're doing it all on college loans, rather than working your way through. Not sure how it works in India)

When I was in school, I put most of that free time into making music. But you could for sure set a fledgling business up and get practice running it and figuring out how to deal with all the major early headaches in your downtime.

Yes, my main focus will be getting my business up. College, well, I just want to get by with doing enough to not fail a semester.

About loans, unless someone is going for management in a top Indian Institution or pursuing studies overseas, taking out a loan is not very common. US is one of the most expensive places to study on earth, no wonder so many Americans think colleges are money pits.

I'll not require a loan. Including college fees and book expenses, I'll not require above $200 a year. That is because the college is state run and I'll be attending from home. Compare that to $40,000 tuition fee a year in the US haha. But, quality is far better in the US so it all evens out. Privates usually cost more, from $2000 a year and above. Top ones $30000 and above. Getting a good job is guaranteed only if you perform well in a top school. Of course, you can always work your way up if you're not from a top school and your first job is not that great.

In these 3 years I plan to go from skinny to normal. Eating right these days and have gained about 4 pounds I guess. Also, hopefully learn some piano and visit 2 or 3 countries. Develop my social abilities. Even if my business doesn't do too well after 3 years (I hope the opposite, of course, but I know I'm a lazy bastard), I plan to be a far better version of myself in all other areas.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
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Joined
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Messages
5,480
Gotcha. Noted on tuition fees. Well, that's extremely reasonable, assuming you're middle class Indian or above (sounds like you are).

sneaky_charm said:
In these 3 years I plan to go from skinny to normal. Eating right these days and have gained about 4 pounds I guess. Also, hopefully learn some piano and visit 2 or 3 countries. Develop my social abilities. Even if my business doesn't do too well after 3 years (I hope the opposite, of course, but I know I'm a lazy bastard), I plan to be a far better version of myself in all other areas.

Sounds like a great plan. You should put these next three years to very good use, then, if you stick to that.

Chase
 
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