fog talks about women

Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:24 pm

The start of my 7th page :) It appears I have the longest journal on the boards. Can’t wait for the next 7!


I detail 4 approaches:

- 2 of which i was received well.
- 2 of which i got blown out

Approach 1 - Warm Reception

I was standing. A black HB5 came and stood near me. Not a clear approach invitation, but I treated her proximity as such. I walk up to her. She’s got earphones in. I shake my hand to test her receptiveness. She takes out her earphones:

Me: you single?
Her [mumbling, does a slight turn of her body] no. [was a 3-4 word answer, can’t remember exactly]
Me: [can’t remember what my reply was, probably “that’s alright” but i need to work on a waaay better answer to a no.]

She’s trying to go back to looking at her phone. But i’m not gonna let her:

Me: Your shirt. What’s it say? [There’s a lot of words on the shirt, but it says new york at the top]
Her: [Touching her clothes] Idk I don’t really pay attention, i just sort of bought it. [indifferent tone]
Me: ohhh new york! I know what new york is like! It’s very dirty.
Her: [starts opening up] ya when i bought it my sister was talking about it. [she continues talking, but i can’t hear her/im in my head]

Somehow the conversation turns to traveling shortly after:

Her: i’ve lived in toronto my whole life
Me: ohhh so youre one of THOSE girls. well do you have any plans to travel?
Her: [laughing]it’s in my plans to travel, eventually
Me: oh ya? Where do you wanna go?
Her: I was thinking Rio
Me: why rio? why not somewhere in europe
Her: [explaining her reason]
Me: and after that?
Her: I’m not sure
Me: you gotta go somewhere romantic! Like spain
Her: Hmm I was thinking paris
Me: yes thats romantic too

We start chatting about what the food that paris is known for. Weird how topics can change so easy:

Her: what’s the main food there?
Me: tea and crumpets

Conversation continues, eventually she asks me this:

Her: what’s your name?
Me: fog, nice to meet you
Her: I’m alison. With one L.
Me: does that ever bug you? the fact that there’s one L?
Her: no actually, not really. [explains more, but I’m too in my head again]

At this point, she’s smiling, investing, giving me IOIs and signs of nervousness. Chemistry seems to be good so I transition into a yes ladder:

Me: alison I have a good idea
Her: what’s that
Me: are you ready to hear it
Her: yes
Me: do you drink liquids
Her [hesitant] yes i drink water
Me: how about we go for a water soon
Her: I’m sorry i dont think my boyfriend would like that.
Me: he doesnt have to know.
Her: huh? [seems confused]
Me: he doesnt have to know!

Can’t remember what was said after this - her rejection continued, she was polite about it though.

Her: I’m actually waiting for him right now. [trying to get me to leave]

I was going to tell her to put her number in my phone anyways if they ever broke up. So I asked her this:

Me: is it serious??
Her: it really is
Me: like you’re gonna get married
Her: that serious, we’ve been together for years.
Me: ok, im not gonna fuck with that
Her: *laughs*
Me: have a good day! nice to meet you


This girl was initially slightly unreceptive due to her shyness, and boldness of my opener, and the fact she had a boyfriend. In the past i would have interpreted this as her not being into me. Now, I realize she just needed a few minutes to get warmed up.

I could have made her start opening up quicker by not asking the logical dumb question about what her shirt said. I could have said instead, “your shirt says new york on it. ever been there?"

- I got this weird feeling from my yes ladder. It felt too short. I think 3 questions is the optimal amount for a good yes ladder. - I also forgot to qualify her.
- I got too excited at a certain point. I need to focus on removing these bursts of weird excitement
- Was too in my head, and rushed things instead of being calm about it
- I’ve noticed how girls experience a reaction to my yes ladders.
- She was wondering what the main food was in paris - like it was on the tip of her tongue. This could have been a good opportunity for me to name the food properly and get a nice little emotional spike from her.

Approach 2 - Warm Reception

Two black HB6s pass in front of me. Girl 1 walks right by me. Girl 2 stops right in front of me and grabs Girl 1 to stop as well. A clear approach invitation. This happened so quick, and I was still in my head trying to analyze my previouus approaches. I jump in halfheartedly:

Me: you guys from around here?
Girl 1: we’re actually not. We’re from scarborough.

They’re both instantly receptive.

Me: ohh, i know what scarborough girls are like I’ve been to scarborough once, i fucking hated it

They standing there, looking at me, not saying anything. But they are hooked.

Me: It was just this one incident that happened that really turned me off of it. [staring into the distance] have you always lived here?
Girl 1: No I’m from montreal

She starts telling me about montreal:

Girl 1: There was a lot of racism there.
Me: Oh
Girl 1: Yeah and it’s a pretty boring city. It’s good if you wanna party but otherwise it sucks.
Me: I was thinking about living there but now I’m gonna give it a second thought.

I turn to Girl 2 and start talking to her:

Me: where are you from?
Girl 2: [seems a little shocked that i was talking to her, and gets nervous] scarborough

There is a little confusion here as I try to figure out if she’s always been from scarborough. She says she’s from dublin:

Girl 2: I’m from Dublin.
Me: get out [neutral face and vocal tone]
Girl 2: [seems shocked - probably took me too serious because of my vocal tone and face.]
Me: Ireland?
Girl 2: yes [starts telling me about it. when she moved here, she was born there blalbla]
Me: so are the stereotypes true?
Girl 2: [confused]
Me: like do they drink a lot there
Girl 2: [gets enthusiastic, she understands and starts telling me all about it]

There is some more conversation, and then i announce i am going to leave:

Me: im gonna get going soon
Girl 2: I like your eyes! [escalation window triggered by my time constraint]
Me: oh listen, i have a great idea. are you ready to hear it?
Girl 2: yes
Me: do you drink liquids?
Girl 2: Yes
Me: do i seem like a friendly person?
Girl 2: [really enthusiastic] Yes!
Me: alright how about we catch some drinks sometime?
Girl 2: Alright sounds good!

Me: [I have my phone out and I’m trying to get it ready so she can put her number in]
Girl 2: do you have snapchat?
Me: no [hands girl 2 the phone]

While she’s entering her number, I talk to Girl 1:

Girl 1: how old are you?
Me: how old do i look?
Girl 1: [can’t remember what she said.]
Me: im 26.
Girl 1: that’s not that bad.
Me: how old are you guys?
Girl 1: we’re 18
Girl 1: ya i had a feeling you were like 25
Me: thats surprising, i always get 17-18, especially in the states
Girl 1: [surprised]

Girl 2 hands me my phone back.

Me: valentina. nice to meet you. my names fog.

I continue talking with the girls about some shit, then I’m about to leave. Girl 2 goes to shake my hand but instead I touch her shoulder.

Post-Conversation Texting

I texted her immediately, afterwards:

Me: Hey valentina, this is fog, save my #

But as I started to think about the interaction, I felt as though I was a little bit unattainable and that my text itself continued to present myself as unattainable.

One hour later, she had not responded, so I sent her this:

Me: we should hang out sometime this week :)

This was last night, no response yet. Maybe I'll call her this week.


I speculate that Girl 2 wanted to talk to me, but was too shy to give me a real approach invitation. So Girl 1 hadda do it. This was an unfortunate interaction because I was in my head the majority of the time trying to figure out what to say & and do next, how to properly execute my yes ladder, how to get out of conversation quickly with Girl 1 so i could start building rapport with Girl 2. etc etc. One big thing was positioning. At one point we were all in a triangle. I wanted to ask Girl 2 if she was single, and I felt like in order to do that I would have to move closer to her so I could whisper in her ear, lmfao.

Even though she liked me and I got her #, I made too many mistakes:

-I forgot to qualify.
- There were some parts where she got confused/shocked
- At the end i touched her instead of shaking her hand when she held it out. That could have been weird for her.
- I had a weird vibe. I wasn't warm.
- I did not have a sexual vibe
-Being too abrupt. After she told me she liked my eyes, this was the perfect opportunity to flirt with her and build some sexual tension. She would have melted into a puddle. Instead, I transitioned into a yes ladder
- Her friend was implicitly saying that she had experienced racism in montreal. Here would have been a great way to display some empathy.

I believe all of this made me too unattainable.

Approach 3 - Cold Reception

A HB7 was standing around with headphones on paying attention to her phone. I knew she was gonna blow me out.

I walk up to her. I shake my hand to get her attention. She glances at me and doesn’t seem to be receptive - she’s indifferent to me, and on the verge of ignoring me. I point at the ground like she’s dropped something. Now we’re holding eye contact. She takes her earphones out:

Her: I’m sorry?
Me: You single?
Her: No
Me: That’s alright.

Silence. She’s back to her indifferent non-verbals. Not sure what to say as all my planned strategy had left the building after I made the split second decision to point at the ground to try to get her to take her headphones out.

Me: What are you up to?
Her: I’m going home.
Me: You were at the mall?
Her: I’m sorry I’m talking to my friends.

I look at her phone. She’s not lying. She’s got whatsapp open. I eject.

After she said she was sorry i really should have tried something else, but i felt deflated.


Bad game here. I’ll continue going in cold direct on HB7+s to purposely get blown out so I can figure out a way to get around this. I definitely need to work on the moments after the opener, but before she’s fully investing. Asking questions like this is not good if she’s not investing. I need to be more polarizing in situations like these. Asking what she’s up to is NOT gonna stir her emotions. I’ll work on some polarization strategies.

Approach 4 - Cold Reception

there was this HB5.5 with short orange hair, a choker on, and scars all over her arms. she looked grumpy as fuck lol. but it stll turned me on, because i felt like she would just love getting slapped and practically abused in bed, ya know?

She’s sitting down with earphones in. I go up to her and test for receptiveness. She gives me a grumpy as fuck look and takes out her earphones.

Me: you single?
Her: no [grumpy still]
Me: alright
Her: huh?
Me: what?
Her: [grumpy look intensifies, like I’m wasting her time. she puts earphones back in.]


Once again, need to be polarizing.

Overall Improvements

I need to:

- Qualify girls after my yes ladder
- Try out polarization strategies for girls who are unreceptive and obviously uninterested
- Learn how to get girls investing in a smoother way. Right now my initial questions to get them investing are dumb and too logical.

There's so many other things I know i can do. But I'll focus on just these three things for my next few approaches.

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Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:40 pm


Today I go over 3 approaches in detail. I’ve been opening with yes ladders for fun. The growth I have been experiencing is insane. Not just my strategy of how to handle situations, but my understanding of how A) value and attainability are directly correlated with each other and B) how they apply to game

Approach 1

I was walking past the LCBO. Some HB7 latina came out of the LCBO and was walking in front of me. She did not notice me. i walk in front of her and shake my hand at her as I’m looking at her. She immediately makes eye contact. It’s a little abrupt, so i look away then look back. Her full attention is still on me.

I make sure to open with a mischievous vibe (I’m working to make this my default vibe) and downtones in my voice. I walk beside her as we are talking:

Fog: i got a quick question for you, are you ready to hear it?
Girl: yes! [shes hooked and mirroring my vibe]
Fog: okay. do you drink liquids?
Girl: like any kind of liquids?
Fog: yeah. like water or anything.
Girl: thats a weird question. [a little amused]
Fog: thats a weird answer.

We're smiling at each other.

Fog:: okay anyways. next question. do i seem like a friendly person?
Girl: whats with the weird questions?
Fog: whats with the terrible answers?

She’s not justifying herself. But she’s smiling a lot. I point it out:

Fog: i see the smile
her: [her non-verbals practically explode. lots of mouth movement. she smiles a lot more, is licking her lips and is getting pretty engaged. think there was some hair playing too]

At this point since shes refusing to invest so i decide to fall back and try for some small talk:

Fog: watcha up to?
Girl: I’m going to my friends house
Fog: oh ya? gonna drink a PHAT amount of alcohol? [said in a slighty raspy, slightly louder voice, with emphasis on phat.]
Girl: yeah i just went to the lcbo. what are you up to?
Fog: just getting home from work.

We are nearing the crosslight. I’m in my head trying to figure out what to do next. I start walking right through the crosslight as she turns to go left. She stops and says,

Girl: I’m turning here.
Fog: okay see you!


She was emotionally investing (my yes ladder was probably polarizing to her), but was refusing to verbally comply with my questions. Instead she tried to get me to answer her questions. It would have been over if I had done this for 2 reasons: 1) i would be justifying myself 2) i would be investing more than her.

Instead, I deflected and threw the questions back at her. This presents a little risk normally - if she’s in auto rejection she could have been bitchy and said “just answer the question.” but she was not in auto rejection, and she knew it was flirting and saying something like that would ruin the fun vibe we had going on.

The “i see the smile” line was useful as a state amplifier in this case. I am going to start using these state amplifier lines for positive emotions more often. I have a hunch that they are useful before transitioning into going for verbal investment, but I am not sure….

I was happy with my decision to drop the yes ladder and try to gain investment and compliance using a different strategy. As soon as I dropped it, and transitioned to regular conversation she started investing.

I regret not stopping when she stopped. Man, she was cuteee! Things happened so fast and I was in my head trying to figure out what to do next

I’m unsure of what I should have said or done if I had stayed. Imagine I kept talking to her, built up a little more compliance, then tried out the exact same yes ladder again? Omg she probably would have flipped lol. Either way,

Approach 2

I was on my lunch break from work. I went outside to approach, but slacked the majority of my break due to approach anxiety. But then I noticed a two set of indian HB5s, standing beside a wall. When I saw them I spontaneously walked towards them without really thinking (to avoid my anxiety).

As I'm walking towards them, Girl 2 looks at me for a few moments. She turns around so that she is facing the wall. It’s a clear approach invitation and she is likely nervous. I make her my target.

Anyways, I stop as I’m walking by them. My body is turned away from them, and I throw out a reception signal. It takes a moment, but they are looking at me and they look a little confused. I do not believe I made strong eye contact at this point [a mistake]

Fog: Hey hows it going??? [very friendly vocal tone]

Girl 2s eyes are sparkling. It’s an insta-emotional hook (lmfao). But i can’t remember what they said.

Fog: im only here for a sec. just for a sec. I got a quick question to ask you. are you ready to hear it?
Girl 1: yes!
Fog. Okay. Do you drink liquids?

[they are confused. there is a pause]

Girl 2: Liquids? You mean like alcohol or...?
Fog: anything
Girl 2: ohhh yes we do.

Fog: [not sure exactly what i said here…i know i started saying something about being on the same page now but i definitely stumbled and just stopped. being on the same page is good - i should have touched girl 2 here]
Fog: okay next question….do i seem like a friendly person?
Girl 2: [very quickly] yes.
Fog: okay. how about we catch some drinks sometime?
Girls: *Laughing*
Girl 1: Is that a pickup line? Because that was good! [My attainability goes down and my value goes up]
Me: [holding eye contact with girl 2] [nervous hesitance – can’t figure out what to say] No i saw you and i thought that you were gorgeous [qualifier] but I don't have time to get to know you because i have to get back to work so i was gonna see if you wanted to go for drinks and actually get to know each other better [intentions clarified] [ATTAINABILITY RAISED, Value lowered]
Girl 1: Sorry i have a boyfriend! [her eyes are glowing, shes scrunched up reallly nervously, playing with her necklace]

I'm looking at both of them now.

Fog: oh is it serious?
Girl 1: yes we've been dating 3 years.
Fog: oh, im not gonna fuck with that then
Girl 1: *laughing*
Fog: have a good day see you


- Funny how the girls thought my yes ladder was real gamey. Although my answer to “is that a pickup line?" was little long, I’m proud of myself for raising my attainability back up.

- I’ve noticed that when girls get nervous around me, they physically make themselves smaller and/or hide from me. I should have pointed this out to her and teased her about it. I wonder what she would have did?

Approach 3

I was doing some spam approaching at the mall, when I spotted two black HBs and two little children sitting on a bench. I can’t see what they look like. I walk around to the front of the bench. I notice the HBs are wearing the same colour so I say this:

fog: hey wouldnt it be great if these children were matching up like you guys?

I’m looking at them. Oh dear, one of them is an HB4 and the other HB is actually probably no more than 15, lol

Girls: huh no? [weird faces]
Fog: what? That’d be a great idea!

They are blowing me off.

fog: [to girl 2] you know what would be a good idea though?
Girl 2: what
fog: australia shouldn't exist! lets remove it from the earth!
Girl 2: [amused, but she’s trying to ignore me by paying attention to her phone]

fog: and replace it with a nail salon! isn’t that a good idea?
Girl 2: yea [amused, but still only half paying attention and not giving me much of an answer]
fog: [at this point I’m not sure what to do - so i self destruct] i have another idea but i dont think you wanna hear it [i get weird and walk away]
Girls: [Looking at me like I’m the strangest thing]


This was terrible because of 3 things that happened in my initial approach:

- I didn’t throw out a reception test
- I had the weird spam approach vibe on, that girls really don’t like.
- I talked about kids.

The combination of all these three things immediately put them on edge and made me seem like a creepy weirdo.
Despite the blow off, I’m relatively confident I could have turned this around quite easily. My comment about Australia and the nail salon was polarizing and got her emotionally investing. All i needed to do was point out her amusement and then do a total 180 and hit her with some normal conversation to gain verbal investment. Something like “hey whats up"

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:21 pm

Girl Negs Me At Grocery Store

I’m standing in line at the grocery store waiting to check out. There are two very old women talking in loud voices behind me. They are arguing with each other. I think it’s a little silly that they are talking so loud. Probably have bad hearing.

It’s my turn to check out. I throw on my mischievous smile and make eye contact with the cashier. She returns the smile and says this to me:

Her: Are you tired?
Fog: why do you ask?
Her: You look tired!

WTF? Idk if she was testing my frame or if this was a neg….it was weird. I tell her I went to bed 10 minutes late last night and she starts being all charming and witty.

So then, 1 of the old ladies behind me puts a box in my shopping cart and tells me to use it. I look at her. We make eye contact and she changes her position, asking me if i need it. I shake my head no. She takes it out, then immediately starts trying to build rapport with me over the strawberries I bought.

Hangin With Crow

I went for lunch with crow this weekend. She’s an old friend of mine who is one of the warmest people I’ve ever met. It’s been a while since I’ve seen her.

Traditionally she has viewed me as cute [harmless] but this time was different. She was getting turned on at some points. I woulda banged her but she’s got a serious boyfriend.

I’m working qualifying and screening into my conversations with women who are attracted to me and observing their reactions to see if theres an increase in attraction afterwards. Crow is an actor, and I asked her this:

Fog: are you a good actor?

She seemed shocked when I asked her that! I forget what she said. It was probably a little too abrasive and uncalibrated.

Later on, I was finishing my food. She had been done for a bit and I could tell by her body language that she was restless. So I paced her:

Fog: I’m done, lets get out of here, I know you’re restless.
Crow: [laughing]
Fog: what? :)
Crow: youre charming :)

So attraction was amplified after I paced her, but why? I remember using pacing a lot earlier this summer, but definitely don’t remember women liking it as much as crow did. Is this just an example thats an outlier? I don’t think so.

The better your fundamentals are, the better game techniques work on women. And my fundamentals have improved a lot this summer.

Also, crow kept looking at my muscles, which ive noticed is typical of more and more women lately when I’m talking to them. I’m trying to figure out something chase framey to say when this happens….In this case, I said this:

Fog: hey! eyes up here.
Crow *attracted look*

I want to be a warm person, so I observed her behaviour to see what i could pick up from her. When our food was served, she gave me my cutlery first. This was a nice little lesson. If you want to be warm, then other people’s needs come before yours.

Witch Girl + Qualifying Mistakes

This is a mistake that I will no longer be making after this talk with witch i had. In the past, I’ve definitely qualified myself to girls without knowing (which resulted in a loss of attraction). One of the more trickier situations is when I ask a girl for compliance, and then she tries to qualify me. This is a trap - after I qualify, her attraction expires and she does not comply.

Girls subconsciously know that compliance tests are what guys use to move things forward. So girls will throw up a roadblock in the form of a qualification as a test to try to prevent things from moving forward. This doesn’t logically make sense. If you don’t meet the qualification, then she obviously shouldn’t comply. If you meet the qualification, then she obviously should comply. But emotionally, this is not the case. Maybe this is a double bind.

So anyways, Witch and I had been chatting. But we fell out of touch for a week, so I pinged her again. I warmed her up and got her intrigued with a yes ladder. Then this qualification trap happened:

Fog: I have some extra senses
Witch: what kind of extra senses? psychic senses? or spidey senses?
Fog: Text me. xxx-xxx-xxxx [note: this was probably too much compliance to ask from her without a justification]
Witch: already [objection 1]
Witch: do you have the ability to cast a spell on me :)
Fog: *eye roll*
Witch: *sly face*
Fog: ur too chicken to text before marriage :)
Witch: guess its not really that big of a deal, I’m just paranoid about weirdos tbh
Fog: but i thought guys who send you 10 unsolicited texts a day and vomit their feelings on you and act were were totally your type [i know this was a weird response to her objection]

She stops replying quickly so I go to bed. I wake up on Friday morning and to see she had replied to me after i went to bed:

Witch: i like clingy but only when I’m into you as well [rejecting my frame/reframing]
Witch: what’s your sign? :) i need to know before i text you [her qualifier]

Fog: It’s in my bio [i actually do have my sign in my bio.]

Witch: fuk that it is
Fog: .

I put a period to be low effort and to try to get her to say more. That was a dumb strategy. I was thinking more and realized my mistake regarding her qualifier. I believed that, in order to counteract this, I had to show her I was not taking her attempted qualification serious. So I changed the sign in my bio and messaged her again on sunday:

Fog: look at my new sign

No reply from her yet. Anyways, one of the biggest issues was a loss of momentum - the time period this whole conversation was happening over was too long.

I think not taking a women's qualification seriously is one of the better ways to handle it.

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Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:38 pm

LR-: an easy submissive girl

I met Whiplash on Tinder. After some periodic banter and connection building that took place over the course of 2 weeks, she asked this question:

Whiplash: Do you have snapchat?
Fog: yes i do
Whiplash: Add me? username
Fog: already!?
Whiplash: lol its easier to talk on there?
Fog: guess its not really that big of a deal, I’m just paranoid about weirdos tbh
Whiplash: lol im not too weird. but if i am you could always block me
Fog: okay true. whats your sign? i need to know before i add you
Whiplash: *laughing face emoji* astrology sign? aqaurious. wbu?
Fog: depends on the day
Fog: add me: username

Here I purposely put out some resistance. After she overcame it, I made her qualify herself to me before giving her my handle. I thought it was hilarious. This should cement her firmly in a chasing position, right?

She adds me then messages me on snap:

Whiplash: hey
Fog: hey :) i must say I’m stoked to see more of your playful witty self
Whiplash: or read more of it
Fog: lmfao you are impressing me so far

Since she was a good girl and jumped through my hoops, I felt it was necessary to reward her with a behavioural sort of compliment. She replied to this by being more witty, so i rewarded her again with a chase frame that gives her incentive to keep trying (so far).

Fog: so what do you do for fun anwyays
Whiplash: draw. have friends over. paint
Whiplash: wbu?
Fog: trespass
Whiplash: wow rebel
Fog: lol :)
Whiplash: where?
Fog: how about i take you and show you
Whiplash: sorry. i got distracted. my sister sent me pictures of my dog
Whiplash: im not a sneaky person
Fog: everyone has a sneaky side to them. thats okay though, we will go do something :) go for coffee nd get to know each other a lil better
Whiplash: thats more manageable. plus id father wait to find my sneaky side until it cools down [ in my frame]
Fog: i melt into a puddle whenever i go outside lately
Whiplash: hot
Whiplash: i just evaporate
Whiplash: what do you do?
Fog: mostly blondes, but i think you might just do
Whiplash: *eye roll emoji* you a student?
Fog: no, i work in digital marketing. I’m so passionate about it, i feel real lucky.
Whiplash: oh neat
Whiplash: its good to do something youre passionate about
Fog: passion makes everything better, doesnt it?
Whiplash: definitely makes it worth any struggles you have
Fog: what about you? what do you do?
Fog: brb shower
Whiplash: im a student. I’m studying ____ at ____
Whiplash: enjoy your shower
Fog: thats actually so sick whiplash! how’re you liking it so far
Whiplash: lol its challenging and time consuming but its good
Whiplash: have my FAVORITE CLASS today. which is exciting
Fog: i would love to talk fashion with you later when i get back from the gym :)
Whiplash: lol. no work today? [trying to screen?]
Fog: work? huh? never heard of such a thing
Whiplash: still havent. you’ve only read about it
Fog: lmfao im glad you said that ahhahaha
Whiplash: well i aim to please
Fog: oh so youre actually trying to impress me….well like i said earlier youre doing a excellent job so far :) [if i had said this in person, i would have put emphasis on “actually” and “me”]
Whiplash: lol i jsut dont want to be super boring
Fog: ever have a boring conversation with someone? those people suck eh
Whiplash: i think everyone can be boring
Whiplash: but it depends on what the conversation is about
Fog: true
Fog: I’m going now!
Whiplash: toodles

Later that night, she sends me a snap of her face. The caption is “bored.” This is an escalation window obviously. I decide to use an arousal based compliment to try to heat things up a little:

Fog: your lips are really sexy :)
Whiplash: lol yeah
Whiplash: *kissy face* thx
Fog: whatre your plans for tonight/tomorrow
Whiplash: chilling at home tonight
Fog: oh ya? do you have roommates?
Whiplash: no
Fog: lets chill
Whiplash: ehhhh
Whiplash: i dont know you
Whiplash: its weird to have people over
Whiplash: that i dont know
Whiplash: and I’m in my pjs
Whiplash: ;P ;P ;P
Whiplash: but soon definitely
Fog: no pressure, you can kick me out if you get uncomfortable, and we can get to know each other better.

I thought it was interesting how, when I asked her what her plans were for tonight/tomorrow, she only replied what she was doing tonight. And she got pretty pointed when I asked her about her roommates. So to me, it’s obvious that she wanted to chill, and she was just giving me token resistance.

Whiplash: im not into hooking up or anything FYI is that okay

Hahah, it’s on now. I send her a snap of me shirtless.

Whiplash: those fucking pants though
Whiplash: *bunch of emojis*

She sends me a picture of her sticking out her tongue

Fog: who said anything about us hooking up
Whiplash: lol just wanted to be upfront about it
Fog: glad you like my pants. so what area do you live in?
Whiplash: by ____
Whiplash: wby
Fog: pretty close to me …. I’m in _____
Fog: i can be there in 30 minutes
Whiplash: oh cool. i was there the other day.
Whilash: Sure
Whiplash: its a mess and so am i *laughing face emoji*
Whiplash: my address is ____
Fog: haha! we can be a mess together, send me your # and ill text you when I’m there/if i get lost.

i show up at her apartment building and ring the buzzer. She answers and I speak into the intercom:

Fog: hows it going? [friendly vocal tone]
Whiplash: good how’re you?? [mimics my vocal tone]

I get up to her apartment and we’re hanging out on the couch. The tests are starting - they’re teases mostly based around my facial features. I just ignore them and soon, my dick magically ends up in her mouth. After we hooked up, she got really submissive. Honestly, I’ve never seen a girl be so submissive before. She was just like a little kid. She kept gushing over how she liked my eyes, nose… and jaw….….which I found really amusing, because she was just saying how much she hated my face a while back! lol girls are silly. I made sure to kiss her as a reward every time she complimented me.

She was being a little annoying by flicking my nipple, so I told her if she did it one more time I was going to put my shirt back on. Well she did it again so I put my shirt back on, and she got really whiny and started complaining.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:50 am

Screening & Qualifying: A Form of Female Resistance

Understanding WHY Women Screen & Qualify

When a girl is screening you, it’s to find out if you are the kind of guy she’s looking for/what value you can provide to her. Women feel the instinctual need to screen you because if they don’t, then they could end up with a bad mate who doesn’t meet their needs. It's a mild form of resistance that women put out to prevent things from moving forward with an inadequate mate. This is a technique used primarily by women. Guys don’t normally verbally screen because they are primarily interested in explicit value - a women’s looks - which only requires passive screening.

Qualifying is the other side of the equation. Qualifying is when women let you know if you’ve met their screens or not, and if you provide value to her or not. Her qualification comes after your answer to her screen. She can qualify you verbally or in her head.

Although screening gives women the information to determine if a guy is a good potential mate, it’s bad for guys on the receiving end of a screen who want to get women into bed quickly. This is for several reasons:

1) Screening and qualifying make the person who is using it higher value
2) The more you answer screens directly, the more they can place you into a box of the role you will play in their life - which could possibly be a role you do not want to play - like the boyfriend zone!
3) Answering screens directly related to your intentions can reduce the sexual tension in an interaction.
4) She is baiting you into expressing explicit value. You should always aim to express your value implicitly.

So, the less you directly answer a girls screens until after you’ve slept with her, then the better.

Mindsets She Screens & Qualifies From

There is only one motive as to why a girl is screening and qualifying you before you’ve slept with her: she’s considering sleeping with you. However, the mindset she is screening you from varies. Here are two potential mindsets:

Mindset 1: She’s feeling that you are more powerful and in control than her. If this is the case, she will instinctively throw up some resistance by screening and trying to qualify you on it, so she can take back some control and prevent things from moving forward. She wants your attainability to raise and your value to drop.

Mindset 2: She’s feeling that she is more powerful and in control than you. But she can’t be sure of your value until she tests you. So she will instinctively throw up some resistance in the form of screening & qualifying to try to discover if her feelings are true or not.

In the next section, I cover a technique that will help you answer her screens when she is in mindset 1.

A Tactic To Answer Her Screens

Effectively answering a women’s screens can be tough. If you qualify to her screen, you are bowing to her, causing her to possibly gain the upper hand (you’re trying too hard to impress her). If you disqualify yourself to her screen, she auto rejects - you are not who she is looking for - your attainability goes down. Deflecting her screen is not much better either. Your value remains unknown, which will not move the interaction forward at all, causing her to keep testing you.

Tactic 1: Invitational Compliance Request + Time Delay

Girl: are you good at cooking?
Guy: we should make a meal together, and you can tell me.

This tactic gives her a logical answer that will help her overcome her inner emotions. The logic behind this answer is this: how can she truly find out if you’re good at cooking if she doesn’t try it out herself?

The advantages of this tactic are:

1. that you put off answering the screen to the future, while inviting her to find out for herself if it’s true or not. This throws up a hoop up for her: in order to find out if you truly qualify or not, she has to invest more of her time in you. This keeps things stabilized so that she will have to keep testing you to try to gain control or she can simply submit
2. You’re not actively trying to impress her, thus not chasing at all.
3. Cooking a meal for her is an implicit display of value.
4. As previously mentioned, the other advantage is that you give her what she needs for attainability and value. You’re implying your interest in continuing the interaction, and implying a connection has been built between you two [by using the word ‘we] which gives you an attainability boost and a value drop. If she agrees to your compliance request, your value is maintained and your attainability is raised. So, an overall net increase in attainability and a decrease in value happens here.

How She Will Act

There will be a spike in attraction (or basically, an excited & enthusiastic reaction to you moving into an attainability sweet spot), leading to an escalation window: girls will actively try to move things forward with you after this, or they will be very open to complying and moving things forward with you (because you passed their resistance in a suitable way). It’s important to lead right after this. If this is the very beginning of the interaction before you have built a connection, you will notice that the girl will start hounding you with questions - they are eager to build a connection with you to increase their comfort levels with you so they can allow themselves to sleep with you.

When Women Qualify You Without Prior Screening

Sometimes you will find girls randomly verbally qualifying you [example: saying, “I like this guy!” to her friends in front of you] when they haven’t been verbally screening you. In this case, they have been passively screening you in their head. Now, they are purposely allowing themselves to move things forward with you. This is a huge escalation window. You are in a nice window of attainability when this happens.

Instead of verbally screening you, they passively screen you, then verbally qualify you to let you know they’ve been passively screening you. If they didn’t verbally qualify you like this, then you wouldn’t know they’ve been screening you…..and girls want you to know when they’re screening you.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:49 pm

hmmm, things are really heating up around here

i’ve been really nailing down my screening & qualification process/structure, and so far i’ve been seeing excellent results. it’s like ive cracked some sort of code or something, because when i use this structure, every girl instantly warms up emotionally and we start having a lot of fun. It feels super good.

im gonna need to experiment more with the exact steps, but here’s how it works:

fog: what do you do for fun? [screening, asking for investment]
girl: im a birdwatcher. [investing]
fog: birdwatching is totally underrated. its not too often i meet a birdwatcher. [rewarding investment by making her hobby seem valuable]
girl: i know right! barely anyone does it
fog: you gotta be patient to be a birdwatcher. most people would get restless doing something like that [screening, and baiting her into qualifying by contrasting]
girl: i am very patient! [qualifying to me]
fog: thats awesome :) i definitely want to hear more now. [qualifying her]

Gotta throw some relating in there somehow…yesterday i ran this on a girl who was into writing, but didnt relate to her at all until she turned the conversation back on me. I told her I do writing too, and she was shocked.

I’m gonna work some teasing and chase framing in as well…hopefully this will unlock their full attraction for me :)

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:31 pm


Things are shaping up to be possibly an easy lay with a girl I met recently called Tape.

I changed my tinder bio to “swipe left if you use condoms.” to try to screen in some girls who are definitely DTF. Well I matched with Tape, and in her tinder bio it says… “waffles or pancakes?” which I can only assume to be a morning after joke. Hmmm.

Since Ambiance has been getting so much success with his tinder opener recently, I decided to use it:

Fog: you are way too tempting i almost cant have you around me rn

girl: whats stopping you then
fog: lack of physical presence

I’ve started coming to the realization that I need to be moving waaay faster on tinder. I sent the convo to Hector [what she really meant] and he told me I should have asked for her address instead. I decided to text her this 4 hours later, and was met with some resistance, which is not surprising considering i failed the window.

fog: whats ya address
girl: why do you want to know my address
fog: the reason why is because its amazing that you prefer dog pics over dick pics! i respect that about you and the reason i think its amazing is cuz i dont like hanging with girls who look at dick pics from random dudes all day. but even though thats cool, I’m curious to discover in person if theres other impressive qualities to you than just that

I interpreted “why do you want to know my address” as, “why do you wanna fuck me?” so i qualified her [probably too cheesy and high effort] on some arbitrary shit based on the only other line in her tinder bio, “i accept dog pics not dick picks"

girl: ahhhh yeah i like seeing dogs. so if I’m always on my phone thats why lol
girl: weird question but were you at the gym today at _____?

This was crazy. I was at the gym at around noon, and there was this girl who was very persistently staring me down with sparkly eyes and a semi-intimidated/apprehensive look. Turns out that this girl was Tape! So we had been talking on tinder, then saw each other at the gym, but we didn’t know this until later. What a coincidence.

With this in mind, it really changed things and I wasn’t sure how to handle it. Based on her behaviour at the gym I assumed that she possibly felt I was slightly unattainable. And then, once she made the connection between real me and digital me, i possibly became slightly more attainable because A) she shut me down on getting her address, and B) i qualified her.

fog: dogs are the best
fog: actually yes i was omg i remember you couldnt keep your eyes off me :) youre darn cute
girl: they really are
girl: ahaha as bad as this is i realized like 20 minutes ago you were there today
fog: this is like the biggest coincidence ever, or maybe not. but either way it’s just crazy isn’t it?
girl: ahaha yeah it’s pretty crazy

I wonder if the chase frame and compliment was necessary.

Also, I wasn’t sure whether to try to qualify her again, but it’s tinder and she probably just wants to fuck. So I said fuck it.

fog: so i have an idea. are you ready to hear it?
girl: im so ready to hear it
fog: well…you drink liquids right?
girl: yes i do
fog: we should go for a drink cuz you seem cool
girl: aww yeah id be up for that
girl: I’m curious to know are you actually XX years old?

Huh. I look young, so I’m wondering if this was the reason behind her screen.

fog: ahah uh oh 20 questions huh? yea I’m XX
girl: ahhaa yup. okayy
fog: okay so whats your schedule like for later today/tomorrow

I used to ask what their schedule was like over the next week - but now I am always trying to go for a same-day or next-day date.

girl: for today, I’m headed out soon with some friends for a couple of hours then going to the gym afterwards. and then tomorrow I’m free all day
fog: okay tomorrow works for me. how about we meet at ____ at __. its real close to ___
girl: works for me
fog: great ill msg you tomorrow a few hours before. have fun with your friends
girl: okayy. thank you

A few mistakes made, but that’s alright. Reading through this conversation, it doesn’t seem like she’s overly interested at all...she's not really showing any emotion or saying anything risky. cocky me thinks she’s trying to play it safe so she doesn’t make herself seem too easy to get after what happened at the gym/she doesnt wanna scare me off.

So everythings set up for tomorrow. I can't wait to dominate this girl so bad

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:44 pm

Tape: Escalation Problems

So I was just chillin with Tape at a coffee shop near my place. She was very nervous. Closed off body language the whole time, was picking at her clothing, and her nails and stuff. we'd hold eye contact then she'd look away shyly. She opened up near the end and started being more expressive. I made sure to mirror her vocal tones and expressions.

Then, all of a sudden out of nowhere she seemed sort of uncomfortable and was looking out the window. This was shortly after I held her hand, joking I was a palm writer instead of a palm reader. Time to pull.

So I say "let's go for a walk." She readily agrees. we leave and she's being way more expressive. We walk to a dog park down the street, cuz she loves dogs. Except there's no dogs there. Earlier in the date I had seeded the pull - I told her I have a funny picture of a dog at my house. So I launched into a poorly-planned yes ladder, which is where everything derailed. It's a little bit fuzzy:

Fog: do you wanna keep chilling?
Tape: uhmmm well...*checks her phone*
Fog: since theres no dogs here we can go see the blue dog at my house.
Tape: I have to go do some homework.
Fog: it will only take two seconds and then we can leave.
Tape: you can just send me pictures
Fog: but its better in person, plus I have no pictures.
Tape: but i have to be up at 5am and I wanna get my homework done.
Fog: it will only be two seconds! Plus in the time we've stood here, we could have gone to my house and been back already. Here, let's go stand over here.

We move over a few steps..

Tape: I'll come see it another day
Fog: It's better to come see it now. I literally live 2 seconds away. Let's go.

I start walking but she doesn't walk with me!

Tape: I promise I'll come see it another day
Fog: Pinky swear?
Tape: ya

We do a pinky swear, building up more compliance (but, I'm falling into her frame). She keeps objecting and groaning "Noooooo". Yet she's still hanging around, instead of body rocking and threatening to leave. I tell her a funny story to try to change her mood real quick, then try again. Nope. I try to build more compliance, but she rejects my attempts at compliance and is getting increasingly grumpy (auto rejection). It was like I was dealing with a little kid. She starts walking away after telling me to message her later. I walk with her.

Tape: why are you still walking with me? [grumpy]
Fog: I have to say goodbye! Give me a hug
Tape: *hesitates, but hugs me*

It was so annoying. This was the first time I ever pushed really hard like this. I can definitely see where I went wrong - I kept trying to provide plausible deniability, when I should have tried a different angle - qualifying her and telling her i wanted to keep spending time with her, and addressing the underlying emotions - we don't have to do anything you dont wanna do at my place!

Fuuuck. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out my next move - I wouldn't mind seeing her again. Since she's in auto-rejection I messaged her this, using "The Turnaround Formula.

Fog: hey, i realize i made you grumpy cuz you felt like i wasnt being very understanding when you said you had to get going. It wasn’t my intentions to make you feel that way! I wanted to keep spending time with you cuz you’re fun to be around, easy to talk to and so cute n silly. Are we cool?
Tape: yeah it's all good

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:14 pm

Persistently Dominant & Confident

A few days before I hung out with Tape, I was starting to feel my aggression and confidence waxing. But after my hard push with Tape, these feelings have skyrocketed to new levels I have never experienced before, and it is seeping out through my presence.

When I started getting more jacked, women started being more drawn to my presence, like I was a magnet. However, today it was like I was a black hole. I have never experienced reactions so strong to me like this.

A 70 year old granny approached me and blabbed my fucking head off. Then I qualified her, and she asked for my number. Lmaooo.

I am so eager to make women submit to me. The looks scale doesn't even matter anymore, all that matters is...will you submit to me or not? All I see when I look at women are submissive creatures!

I never *truly* understood the need for compliance until today. I did understand, but I didn't understand in a way that truly made sense to me: compliance is testing for submissiveness, and if a girl complies, she is being submissive to me. So since i am eager to make women submit, i am going to get them to comply with me over and over again.

I've started actively offering women information bout myself in my sets - I am hoping this will reduce the extremely flaky numbers I am getting.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:01 pm

Walking a Tightrope With Pond

I met Pond on tinder back in May, and we're hanging out tomorrow. We fell out of contact for a bit [i messed up], then things really picked up recently between us. Her last message to me was, "is this a date?" I really have no clue what to say to this. Part of me wants to take the risk and say yes, and the other part of me wants to play it safe and keep a wider frame. Keeping a wider frame would give her the attainability and emotions she needs, while not killing the mystery of it all....

Anyways, I'm posting some parts of our conversation between us and analyzing them:

fog: so we are chilling tomorrow
pond: huh
fog: u heard me
fog: we gonna fuck some shit up
next day
pond: hey sorry i dont like using this app much
fog: lmfao its fine
fog: i think its attractive that you're so improvement oriented. barely anyones like that! the reason i find it attractive is because people who are self improvement oriented are way more fun and positive to be around, and even though thats cool, I'm curious to discover if there's more to you than just that. that why i wanna hang.
pond: oh wow I'm very flattered
pond: thats probably one of the best compliments someone can get honestly
pond: i just wasnt sure youre looking for anything "more" based on your bio [my bio says, "swipe left if you use condoms"]
fog: i *almost* thought the same thing about you based on your bio. but in all honesty I'm purely looking to get to know you better and then see where it goes based on that
pond: youre right
pond: then shall we speak elsewhere
fog: yes we should. but before we do that i need to know youre horoscope sign :)
pond: im a pisces
pond: you?
fog: a pisces?!!! omg i cant keep talking to you now :)
pond: is that real lmao
pond: whats wrong with pisces :/
fog: im kidding around. I'm a pisces too!
fog: text me xxx-xxx-xxxx

So during this time was when I started using more qualification in my game. It was really beneficial in this case - the issue leading up to this point was that I had NEVER qualified her, yet kept asking her to hang out. So she liked me, but thought I just wanted to fuck. Basic mistake lol.

So when I qualified her, her attraction increased for me. She presented her objection that she was under the impression that I just wanted to fuck [as I mentioned above], meaning she'd open to moving things forward if I were to overcome her objection. I overcame her objection by widening the frame, and there was another little spike in her interest - she suggested we move things forward by moving the conversation off tinder.

The hilarious move here was that I met her compliance suggestion with a silly compliance demand & qualifier. After she complied and qualified herself, I pushed her away in a really joking way, but then built up some brief similarity before rewarding her with my number. She texted me, I noticed another spike in interest from her:

pond: hi fog :)
pond: my actual names pond river btw or pond for short
pond: whens your birthday
fog: hey :) my actual names ____
fog: and its may 24, wbu
pond: oh wow we have a lot in common its actually kinda weird
pond: and mines may 27
fog: we do....makes me wonder what other commonalities we'll find between us as we keep talking.
pond: me too
next day
pond: ok [going into auto rejection]

So we've established 2 very small things in common. Same sign and close birthdays. Yet she's treating it like we have a lot in common - its almost ridiculous. I'm beginning to see this is typical girl behaviour after i overcome resistance....they try to find similarity with me in anything i present and make it a bigger deal than it actually is, so they can allow things to rapidly move forward.

I rewarded her again - by putting a time frame on things, and saying we are going to keep talking.

I didn't get back to her after she got back to me. I was out daygaming and shit, I thought we were in a good place and I could just get back to her whenever. But she obviously went into auto rejection a little bit - I managed to get her out using the turnaround formula:

Pond: ok
fog: hey i realize you felt ignored. i didnt mean to make you feel that way, ive been really exhausted from work lately. youre a really genuine person and i like talking with you. are we cool?
pond: its alright no worries
fog: so ya pisces are really stubborn eh
pond: yeah they are
pond: are you

She started investing again, and we were out of the hole. We continued talking over a few days time and I kept on qualifying her. I asked her to hang out. She agreed. Then, this happened:

fog: sunday afternoon at 1ish?
pond: sounds like a plan
pond: do you smoke
fog: smoke what
pond: crack?
fog: only with cute girls
fog: my turn: do you eat?
fog: ass
pond: only the black ones over 65
fog: oh, so youre not picky. good to know :)
pond: ive decided to only say yes this year
fog: lmfao we are outta control right now
pond: lmao i know
pond: is this like a date?

This little banter between us made me feel bad. I was really challenging and brash, and sorta made her look bad. When I turned it around on her, she completely fell into my frame. I had a feeling that this reduced my attainability. So I figured I'd take care of her emotions and bring my attainability back up by making an us vs. the world sorta statement.

then bam, she's asking if it's a date?! things were pretty smooth sailing up until this point, and now she's thrown me off. she's practically asking what my intentions are.

If I say yes, then i get slotted in the boyfriend zone, which could slow down possible intimacy between us. I actually would consider dating this girl - shes girlfriend quality. Also, what if I say yes and then she's like, "well I'm not looking for a boyfriend right now"...then I'd have to do all sorts of reframing to get her to hang with me which would just make me look needy and chasey. But like, saying yes could get me into a real nice attainability sweet spot if she wants a date.

On the other hand, setting a wide frame like, "i haven't figured it out yet. but im really having a good time getting to know you and i think youre having a good time getting to know me too. so let's just get together and see what happens between us :)." would keep me out of the boyfriend zone. Its also less risky if shes not looking for a boyfriend. It still gives me more attainability, but not enough so that she feels 100% comfortable. It doesn't kill any mystery. My only concern is....after all these emotions I've put her through, doesn't she deserve to hear a yes from me?

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:41 pm

The Bratty Blowout

I saw these two girls. I walk up to them. It’s a brunette HB5 and a blond HB6.5. The HB6.5 is one of those barbie type girls…she probably thinks she’s an 8. i open:

Fog: you guys look bratty.

I am holding eye contact with the blonde. No one is saying anything. Then, the tension breaks and she starts giggling. She’s looking at me quite sexually. I look at the brunette - her mouth is literally hanging open in shock. coulda been mock shock, but it seemed legit

This was where i fucked it all up. I was in with the blonde, all I had to do was leap into a conversation….but instead, I made some stupid fucking tease.

Fog: you know if you guys stand there not saying anything, people will think you're a mannequin [addressing them both]
HB5: you can’t just walk up to people and call them brats when you don’t even know them! You’ll hurt their feelings.
Fog: Oh, no!! It wasn’t my intention to hurt your feelings. [in a justifying vocal tone]

After I said this, the blonde does a massive purposeful takeaway, and takes 3-4 huge steps backwards. It’s over, and I eject. It all happened so fast!

I know how I messed up, but the extremely different reactions from the both of them were very interesting to me. To the brunette, it was too polarizing for her. For the blonde, it was just polarizing enough to get her interested in me.

Training Wheels

I am having a good time approaching and practising on hotter girls lately. They have different behaviour than less attractive girls. It’s tough to explain…they have a really cool vibe towards me, and they’re actually fun to flirt with because they know what I’m there for, and they’re not afraid of it. They have a better understanding of what game is, and they do stuff purposely to get a gauge on me - like trying to get me to jump through hoops, doing takeaways when i say something i dont like, etc.... and this shit is happening in the daytime? wtf

Walking a Tightrope with Pond - Ct’d

so some very interesting shit has been happening with pond. she ended up flaking, and we rescheduled for wednesday. i pulled a trick in a conversation we had recently that has firmly cemented me as the one in charge.

Here’s where it left off:

Pond: is this like a date?
13 hours later
fog: i havent figured that out yet…but I’m having a lot of fun getting to know you and I’m looking forward to meeting you, and i think youre feeling the same way. so let’s just get together and see what we can figure out together :)
pond: lmaao that was a long ass answer just to say you don’t know
fog: *eye roll*

There was three problems with my answer: 1) I took way too long to answer her and frame things, so that caused resistance. I’ve noticed that when I hesitate on framing an interaction, it causes the girl to throw me resistance 2) it didn’t really move things forward at all between us, which is what she wanted 3) it actually was too long...

She busted my balls over being too effortful, so i counteracted that by blowing it off nonverbally with an eye roll. I passed this test, because she moved things forward afterwards:

pond: i dont mind it tho
pond: i like ur long responses
pond: better than the dry shit I’m used to

As I mentioned she flaked on sunday due to being sick, but she took an active role in rescheduling:

pond: how does wednesday sound
me: wednesday works for me
me: wouldnt it be cool if we found a jazz/blues show to go to! [rewarding her for rescheduling]
pond: that’d be my ideal date
pond: like actually
me: which circumstance would you find more ideal on this ideal date: hanging out in the back where it’s quieter or in the front where its loud af
pond: oh wait its not a date
pond: and i guess in the back?
pond: what would you prefer?
pond: I’m literally listening to some duke ellington atm

I’m screening her to find out what her perfect date looks like. But it’s ambiguous in the way that I could possibly be framing our hang out as a date. So she says, “oh wait its not a date.” which is interesting to me. It’s like she was subtly trying to get me to clarify my frame. Anyways, I decide to widen my frame from “we’ll see if it’s a date” to this:

me: it will be a date if it lasts longer than 30 minutes and if i like you (:
pond: pressures on

This frames me as the one in charge - now she is feeling pressure to impress me when we meet up!

pond: you didnt answer though
me: about if i prefer the back or the front
pond: yea
me: i prefer wherever is best for building a connection
pond: same here
me: im glad we’re in the same mindset!

There’s some subtle stuff going on here too. Her frame around hanging out in the back or front was very specific: she likes hanging in the back. My frame is wider - it doesnt matter, as long as a connection can be built. She says "same here", thus falling into my frame. I rewarded her for it.

I like these little small details. They make a big difference

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:20 pm

You're Cute Like a Lil Watermelon

I am opening direct lately, but with a twist - I include a simile. I compare her cuteness to something random. The results are pretty nice, especially when i tell them theyre cute like a little watermelon. it's pretty polarizing and they nearly always start giggling

Introvert or Extrovert?

One of the questions I was asking to launch into a conversation was "what do you do for fun?" which I believe was suggested by Tony D. But I wasn't getting nice results from it. A lot of girls would give me bland answers...

So now I ask the girl if she's more of an introvert or extrovert, and it gets girls investing more. It's easy to ask them why. It's easy for me to cold read what their life what is like as an introvert or extrovert. I can very easily relate to it. And, If I like their behaviors, I can qualify them on it.

Stupid Cockblocking

I get cockblocked a lot in 2 sets. When my target shows interest, her friend walks right in and forces the target to leave with her. So I think I will experiment with doing some isolation.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:27 pm

Rooting My Interactions To Increase Comfort

I learned a new technique recently that has been very helpful in increasing comfort in my interactions and preventing girls from running off after I open them. It’s called rooting. Rooting is when you give a reason for why you approached her, and then you give her a reason for why you wanna keep talking to her.

When I approach a girl, she’s thinking….whys he here…what’s he want from me….and why me? Rooting answers all those questions. Now she understands why the conversation is starting, and why its continuing.

Today I had a killer set. I approached her by asking her what it said on her shirt (rooting the approach). The conversation continued, and I was really starting to ramp up the flirting with her after I noticed considerable interest from her. I said, “I think you’re too young for me” which was completely silly, because she’s a year older than me. But right after that comment, she tried to eject, even though she was still giving me IOIs. The reason was that I didn’t root my flirting, and so she immediately got uncomfortable - she felt like I was hiding something.

recent qualification observations

I’ve been putting a lot of considerable thoughts into what i wanna screen girls for…i really like girls who are driven and feminine….and this can lead to a bunch of sub qualities that I can screen a girl on..

but the most important part of all this has to do with congruence, which I am finding to be a really big flaw in my game….i think that MAYBE congruence is the missing piece of the puzzle that will help me get a little bit more success with girls. in the past ive done dumb things like told a girl who is in criminology that i dont meet a lot of girls who wanna do that…which is BULLSHIT, i meet girls who are in crim all the time actually. and that’s incongruence. they can spot this shit from a mile away.

a few days ago i met a girl who was in school to be a teacher and we were vibing pretty well. everything was going so smoothly due to the fact that nurturing behaviours are ACTUALLY stuff i like! and when i find a girl like that, i have genuine enthusiasm and approval for her - which can’t be faked.

connection building technique - the timeline

chase was coming out with a bootcamp and i really wanted to do it, so i was talking with tony d about it the other night (really cool guy btw) and he gave me some insight into why I’m struggling in toronto, he was like …"well they got 1000 other options and they’re all foreign” and that really hit home with me. like so fucking what, i can easily bring out girls’ attraction for me…but they’re also attracted to the other 100 guys in their phone and the other 10 guys who have approached them that day. i shit u not, i have been walking up to approach a girl in the daytime and there was another dude trying to approach her too. it was fucking crazy.

so ya, any fuckwit can build attraction and be attractive in toronto - but can any fuckwit build a fucking crazy ass connection in 5 minutes or less? maybe thats less common. and so thats another piece of the puzzle to getting really good here and thats what I’m focusing on right now - separating myself from the pack.

i learned this new connection building technique called the timeline. this shit is insanely powerful. i know that once i get good at it, its going to crush, because…..a lot of the times in the past, when a girl is ready to bang me but there needs to be a little bit more of a connection built, she will launch into some timeline of what her emotions have been like the past 6 months or so.. I can’t believe I didn’t spot this pattern until I learned this technique.

So the trick to solid connection building is to focus mostly on her past, and try to elicit the strongest emotional points from her past. then you get her to walk you through/give you a summary of whats happened between those emotional points and who shes been as a person since them. and at the end of it all, she feels like you know who she is as a person. and with some good questions at the right time, you can probably get a lot of answers out of her that she wouldnt tell anyone else. like i almost have to laugh to myself lately when i approach a girl and she starts over investing and just telling me a fuck ton of stuff right away - so i can only imagine what it would be like after a little bit of a connection has been built.

the other flip side to it is, how can i convey important points about who i am in a quick amount of time?

putting girls in the submissive frame

im always seeking to put girls in a submissive frame. calling them little, comparing them to little objects, asking if they’re shy, etc lol i just gotta watch out to keep really warm otherwise it will come off as demeaning.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:03 pm

i had the most interesting set of my life with this older trinidadian women who was deathly attracted to me. She was practically begging to go to the movies with me shortly after I met her. She was framing it as a date. First, I agreed that it would be a date. But then i changed my frame to, “it’ll be a date if it lasts longer than 30 minutes and if i like you.” Then I started qualifying her really hard. After a while, she says this:

Trinny: so am i qualified to go on this date with you?

I laughed so much. During the whole set, I was taking advantage of this extreme interest from her by testing out techniques that show disinterest i.e. dropping the conversation mid sentence and looking around, body rocking, maximizing distance between us, disqualifying her on her age and other things.. She got really fearful and would constantly qualify herself to me.

Hm, imagine I could get all girls reacting like this to me?

However, my directness is not going over well with all the older ladies. This example from today is representative of it:

fog: hi, you caught my eye
old lady: i am not the person to fuck with *walks off*

One other notable set was some fairy looking girl who was a little bit of a tough nut to crack. I got her investing initially by being challenging, but afterwards she was really making me work. Like she’d just randomly drop the conversation [i later used this on the trinidad woman], which would force me to re-engage and put in more investment. Upon further reflection, I realize that I should have re-engaged with facial expressions.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:59 pm

im planning to daygame for 30 days straight, starting tomorrow. this post will detail some techniques I’m hoping to solidify during this time. I believe that if i can successfully implement them, then ill be at the next level.

New Inner Game Mindset - Being the Prize

I’ve been thinking about some new mindsets I can implement in order to help me improve my game. While I am qualifying and challenging girls, which communicates that I am the prize….I am not operating from a mindset where I truly believe I am the prize (except with HB5s, lol). So I am starting to change my mindset to actually believe that I am the prize. Not only will qualifying and challenging be more congruent, but it will also open up a bunch of other natural behaviours too. I’ve been studying swinggcat, and all his inner game stuff is presented in a way that sets you up as the prize.

Future Projections

some of the big leaguers i have been studying suggest future projections. so i have been working on incorporating them into as many interactions as possible. although a future projection doesn’t provide an immediate reaction for feedback, i believe it will really help in developing better relationships, faster, with women.

Promise of Adding Value W/ Open Loops

I’ve started incorporating open loops into my game - but there is a particular open loop presented by tony d that I believe will help in getting an increased amount of girls to text me back after getting their number.

tony d talks about how you should suggest to a girl that you can add value through knowledge, but withhold it to spike her emotions - you will give the knowledge to her if she stays in contact with you.


The concept of tentativity is really powerful.

As mentioned, i was day gaming this trinidadian women who wanted to go on a date with me. I told her that I would take her on a date if i still liked her in a little bit. Then I started qualifying the shit out of her, and she suddenly said, “am i qualified to go on this date with you?”

The exact same sort of thing happened recently with a girl on tinder. i set up a tentative disqualifier/push saying she could possibly be too young for me. later, after i showed direct interest by asking her to hang out, she says, “so I’m not too young for you then?”

I am super eager to get women saying more stuff like this to me. It looks to me that these women are seeking to close the tension that tentative push/pulls qualifiers/disqualifiers create. They’re basically asking if they've met my standards. If I’m high enough value, I can engineer a need for girls to seek approval from me using an open loop, thus leading them to make these statements.

Here’s my formula for it (very rudimentary):

Tentative disqualification - "You might be too young for me"
Time Delay + conditions to avoid being disqualified (hoop) + open loop - "We’ll see how mature you are as we keep talking. If I like you in 5 minutes, you probably are."
indirect qualification/reward: - "hey maybe we should hang out again sometime"

IODs for IODs

if a girl is not investing, or refusing to invest - i take a huge step backwards, and show disinterest in her. the overall goal in this case is to try to increase my value through attraction building techniques, then try for investment again.

disqualifying myself

here is a beta, logical thought process in my head: if a girl is trying to qualify me, and i disqualify myself to her qualifier, then that means I’m going to lose the girl because it will make her less interested in me.

that is literally what every guy is thinking. however, actively disqualifying myself goes against the grain and will make girls more interested in me (it suggests abundance).

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:24 pm

swinggcat tech: a dangerous weapon

idk if i mentioned, but i’ve been really soaking in swinggcats material. tonight i was on a date with some HB5 and had a great opportunity to practice it.

it was insane...

things were alright at first, she was warm with me and i had done ample amounts of qualifying with her. but after i pulled out some swinggcat tech, she started begging me to qualify her. this tech was coming out on auto pilot so i wasnt really thinking about my attainability. i was just wanting to get an emotional reaction out of her to keep things interesting. but soon after that she went slightly cold and indifferent towards me - this was really prominent when i was challenging her. I was sort of freaking out inside. i knew she was in auto rejection, but i didn’t know how i was gonna get her out. i calmed down and started strategizing. i amped up the warmth, started touching her a lot, qualifying her, giving her a nickname, revealing a lot more about myself, and future projecting. soon everything was back to normal and we were back to having a good time.

gotta really watch it with the average girls.

emotional reactions

heh, im actually quite pleased with my ability to get women feeling emotions around me lately.

i disqualified pond

the other day, pond and i were chatting. i was building a nice little connection with her. but then, i stopped replying. idk, i was screening her on her motivations and was gonna qualify her on them but just got bored and stopped replying. like im not down to sink all this investment into a chick ive never met. however, 2 days after i dropped the conversation, she messages me this:

Pond: :(
Fog: why the sad face dear?
Pond: cuz you never answer me

i took the opportunity to qualify and set up a date

Fog: pond bb, now that you're feeling better we need to hang out. it will really help with us connecting
Fog: I'm really digging your motivations and viewpoints and cant wait to learn more
Fog: i have time this weekend
Pond: lets chill tomorrow

So we made plans to chill the next day. And guess what. She flaked again. This is the 4th time now. She lives out of town and said her ride fell through - this is a perfectly good excuse for a flake, but the way she handled it really aggravated me. We were supposed to hang out at 1PM. She messages me at noon saying she keeps falling asleep. So at 1:03PM, I ask her when she's coming. She gets back to me at 2, saying this:

Pond: ive just had breakfast and a shower.
Fog: ooo making progress.

Then she doesn't get back to me until close to 4, and this happened:

Pond: hey i dont think its gonna happen today
Fog: uhhh
Pond: i was supposed to get a ride to the station
Pond: since the buses dont run on the weekends
Pond: and my dads still at work.

It was just fucking ridiculous - and it wasn't the first time she's been inconsiderate of my time like this. One of the times she flaked, we were supposed to hang out at 1PM. She didn't message me until 1:44. She said she was sick.

I've mentioned that Pond is like my dream girl in terms of looks. But this whole flaking thing is really turning me off, so I actually disqualified her on it. Can u believe it!? Fog is rejecting girls!!

Fog: this is like the 4th time this has happened now...its such a turn off for me honestly. like i made an exception for u the first 3 times cuz i like u but now idk...its inconsiderate of my time.
Pond: i understand completely
Pond: i am really sorry
Fog: if anything changes and ur able to chill tonight let me know.

Today, guess who messages me...

Pond: hey are you free tomorrow after 4?
Pond: ill be free after work
Pond: if you can chill

i really wonder what effect the partial DQ had on her.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Date With Pond: An Emotional Disaster

I finally got together with Pond but it was a train wreck. Not only did I ruin my attainability with her, but I also presented myself as a loser. It hurts so, so bad. :( This attainability problem where I come off as a fuckboy is losing me a ton of girls. Thankfully I know my mistakes and know exactly how I can prevent them from happening with the next girl.

We meet up and she’s wearing a brown faux fur coat and white heels, just overall very fancy. We went for a drink at some random bar. She seems to be nervous. I was holding her hand, looking at the lines on it and she had sparkles on her hand. I asked her about the sparkles. She said she had put on makeup before coming and that she had gotten some on her hand. Aww, so cuteeee :)

My first mistake came when we were talking about how my roommate had gotten in a traffic accident. I told her I wished my roommate had died. I immediately told her afterwards that I was kidding - but it seriously ruined the vibe we had going. Like she got cold and distant for a good little while after that. I was freaking out internally as usual, trying to figure a happy story to tell her. This behaviour was too polarizing for her.

She mentioned how it was weird for her to meet a guy off tinder. My mistake was not asking her why it was so weird for her, and not making her feel comfortable with it.

Every time i showed interest in her, she would really play it down and make herself seem not all that special. Or she would really not know what to say. She really reminded me of Tape - same sort of vibe

After our drinks, we went for a walk. It was fucking freezing outside. I was very cold, and it got in the way of my thinking. We walked in the general direction of my place, and I mentioned how I told her about how my roommate was sick one time, and I felt some weird paternal urge to take care of her. She was not happy about this. She got cold with me and started challenging me: “so you wouldnt take care of your brother if he was sick?” She really interpreted me as a uncaring guy here. I mean, I’ll take care of people if I have to, but I’m not a guy who has a strong inner desire to be nurturing. I couldn’t understand why she was judging me so harshly over this. But it made sense when she told me about her ex later.

I suggested we go back to my place under the guise that my roommate would maybe have some weed for us to smoke. She asked me to text my roommate, and it turns out my roommate was not gonna be home till later.

We walked right by my apartment because i was being a little pussy and not being assertive. Then she’s like:

Pond: "where do you….r parents live”

She was definitely about to ask where I lived, but changed it at the last second.. So then finally, I tell her I live reallly close and ask her if she wants to come in. She says, “i dont know.” I just let it be, which I really hate looking back on it now. Like why wouldnt I be persistent. This would have been a good opportunity to explore her objection. She was probably afraid that I would want to use her for sex, or that I would be a serial killer. From now on, I will be sure to let girls know that they are welcome to leave at any time if they get uncomfortable, and that there will be no sex happening. It would have been great to use a yes ladder to.. i.e. "wouldnt u rather be warmer rather than colder?” I will blame my investment in her, rust & my freezing body for this. I’ve had no problem getting girls I barely know over to my place in the past. Usually they present the serial killer objection, never just a straight up "idk"

Anyways, I was friggin cold, and didn’t have a backup plan (another mistake). I suggested we walk down the street to the market. But then she took charge and suggested we go find a park. We found a park and sat on a bench. In the cold. When we were sitting on the bench, she asked me how many girls I’ve met up with from tinder. I answered without thinking and gave her my default auto-pilot answer: thousands. Millions. She was not happy with this either, and it set a bad precedent for the rest of our interaction. While it is true, I have met up with lots of girls off tinder, I pumped up my value and reduced my attainability with this answer, when in fact she was looking for attainability and comfort from my answer. She was also curious about what it’s been like for me. I just told her, a few bad apples, I find the girls here to be relatively cold.

It goes deeper than this though, as I’ve been learning some stuff from Frank Kermit. What exactly am i communicating besides value and attainability with this answer? Well, it could trigger ASD. Even deeper, its a concern for her reputation. If I’m willing to tell someone about my level of involvement with women, even if its just a brief look at my involvement with women, then that could suggest that i am not a discrete person. My default answer to questions like these should be that I don’t really discuss that with women I’m not super involved with.

Then we went and stood in a corner, out of the wind and cold. During this time, she told me about her (only?) relationship that lasted 5 years. How the guy was immature, and treated her like shit, did not care. A lot of what she was talking about explained her cold behaviour towards me at certain points. She went on to say she really hates fuckboys. I believe she was possibly hinting that I could be a fuckboy. I felt my attainability was low, but for some reason I was feeling resistance towards qualifying her. Wasn’t my interest in her already clear enough? Unfortunately, I acted needy and ingenuine during this time. Holy heck it was bad. I was telling her the reason I want to get a lot of dating experience is so that I will know exactly what I’m looking for in a girl. She had a hard time understanding that. As well, during the fuckboy talk, I said “but you’re cool” and she looked at her phone and just said “thanks” indifferently. As you can imagine, I probably communicated this in the wrong way.

At one point there was a brief moment where there was some sexual tension between us. Except, she was very uncomfortable with the sexual tension. She immediately looked away from me, scrunched up her shoulders and buried her head in her coat. Usually I’d consider getting into a smaller position like this a sign of attraction, but given everything that had been going on, I realized she was not comfortable with me.

The whole time I had been giving her brief touches on her arm. I put my arm around her at a certain point briefly. We touched knees on the bench. But I was way too in my head, worried about my attainability. So worried that I forgot about the bigger picture. Looking back, it was a major roadblock.

She said she had to go, so we started walking towards her bus stop. This is where it hit me: I had barely escalated at all! if I dont step it up and start making a move, then I’m going to lose her. So I planted a huge kiss right on her cheek. Some teenager shit. Her reaction was so cute. She got so frazzled. I used to have no problem escalating quick, i guess I’m rusty. I wonder if the cheek kiss had any sort of effect on my attainability at all, as a cheek kiss is sort of boyfriendy.

I wanted to hold her hand. I did put out my hand, but she was just like “what?” And I rerouted by saying I needed help warming up my hands. I was too much of a pussy to ask her to hold my hand...need to channel my inner seppuku

We were walking towards her bus stop, but I didn't bother to find out where it was. So she led me all the way to the bus stop, which pisses me off because it’s a lack of leadership on my part.

We get to the bus stop, and we’re waiting for her bus to come, but I did not say it out loud that I was gonna wait with her. I guess she felt a little uncomfortable because she was like “oh I’m gonna walk down the street cuz i wanna go to a store.” Well, I knew that was a lie. We hug, but it’s only a half hug (she definitely did not want me kissing her) and she says “i guess ill talk to you later” I guess???? omg, truly heartbreaking.

Chasing is out of the question, although I am really wanting to reach out to her. There were good moments between us, but for some reason i can only seem to focus on the bad. Onto the next chick...who is just around the corner

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:11 pm

amazing daygame seshes

Had some amazing sets the last few days that I would view as, probably, some of my better sets. they're getting similar to when i gamed the trinidadian women. I managed to fit in a lot of material ive been wanting to try out but havent found the situation for it. If i can make all my sets like these, I’d be happy.

I was chatting with an asian women. During the set, I looked behind me and there was an cute little indian girl standing around like 6 feet away. She gave me an approach invitation. After my chat with the asian ended, I walked over to her and opened her. Turns out she was doing some volunteer work. I qualified her on this, but then I set higher qualifications for her: what else do you do that helps the community? She said she played volleyball! I found this hilarious because volleyball definitely does not help the community, but she liked me and just wanted to find any way to qualify to my screen. I made sure to reward her for meeting my screens by giving her compliments and future projecting. We were really vibing so i grabbed her number. We’ve since set up a date for tuesday.

very spontaneously, i opened this older israeli women….her eyes lit up initially, but shortly into the conversation she responded indifferently to me using an open loop to try to trigger some curiosity in her. i did not like this indifference from her and transitioned into this:

fog: you remind me of my grandma. although im probably too old for you
girl: wait... im pretty sure im older than you. [amused and confused]
fog: you might not be mature enough for me. we'll wait and see if i like you in 5 minutes
girl: [speechless]

her eyes started glazing over and she was just standing there not saying anything. her eyes were rolled up towards the left so i know she was trying to think of something to say. i almost waited but instead i just hopped straight into screening her but then her friend came in and cockblocked so heavy. her friend said she was married. i really should have not paid any attention to the cockblock. i asked them if they were married together. the cockblock fell into my frame and said that yes they were. i should have said something like, “oh so u guys are a package deal. looks like youll both have to get on my good side”

There was this one indian-italian girl who was an extreme yellow light. She was giving off the vibe that she was testing me to find out if i was dominant or not. She was doing purposeful non-verbal takeaways. I think this stuff is designed to try to get a panicked reaction out of me, so just by playing it cool I pass. She asked me to guess her nationality. I refused to guess and changed the subject. Later I asked again, she got grumpy saying, “I asked u to guess” Then she starts walking away. I said, “wait. i realized something bout u” she came back but i wasnt exactly warmed up yet so i didnt have anything to say. I smirked and walked away.

Looking back, I could have beat this girl in our flirting match. Like when she said “guess” i could have said “tell me ur name and i will guess” thus eliciting investment out of her. then, after she told me her name I would tell her I will guess in 5 minutes if she hasn’t said anything that has turned me off. or maybe a disqualifier. its overall important to try to widen the status gap between me and the girl in these situations

there was this homeless girl i gamed for shits and giggles. i asked her out for coffee, lol cuz she met all my screens. we were getting along pretty well - very easy and pleasant to flirt with. she says:

girl: will u pay for the coffee?
me: i will if i like u
girl: ooo i feel like im being put to the test

sticking points

I’m having a hard time getting some girls intrigued by my open loops. i established that open loops do not work when a girl does not view u as higher value. but sometimes, even when the girl is investing and seems to be attracted, the open loops do not have the desired effect. i think i have to tweak them a bit more to portray to the girl that i have information i am holding back.

one of my biggest sticking points is portraying a calm vocal tone. in the middle of a set i will analyze my vocal tones, and realize i am talking way too tensely and excitedly. I can notice a mega difference when i am talking calm rather than when i am talking excited. maybe i will have to work on this for a few years. but this is gonna make a huge difference when getting girls to hook on me

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:22 am


in some of my sets yesterday, i noticed extremely subtle changes in behavior after rooting. it was so weird - i even noticed some changes in microexpressions! i was feeling overly sensitive to conversational tension, and was able to feel it release. crazy how saying just one thing can drastically increase comfort.

Date with Prancer

This is the girl I mentioned I met in my last journal post. I learned so much.

I noticed some patterns based around how she would act when i would verbally push pull. When I would pull her in, her state elevated and she’d be very happy. When I’d push, she would laugh. So obviously, pulls fill a girl with tension, and pushes release that tension. I’ve seen many girls laugh to release tension after a push, but I never noticed the effects of a pull. This is huge. Now that know what I’m looking for, I can properly calibrate.

She was engaged and emotional 90% of the time, but towards the end we started talking about logical shit and everything came crashing down. it became a boring conversation. I did find out her logistics and she said she didn’t have a long time to hang out, so pulling was out of the question. I think in these situations, or in situations with inexperienced girls who might need more time with you to get to know you, cutting the date short on a massive high point is ideal to set the stage for a second date.

Anyways, so went for coffee. We grab a booth, and she sits on the opposite side of me. I tell her i want her to sit with me, and her objection is:

Prancer: but i won’t be able to see you!

I let her get away with it but later, knowing it is making escalation difficult, I ask her to sit with me again. She does.

I was doing extremely well with getting to know her using the timeline technique. But something very strange happened. The whole time, her vibe was positive. But then, I was discovering a second positive highly emotional point in her life and her vibe went from good to very neutral/slightly closed off for the first time in our date. It was so odd. I assessed my behaviour. I found myself to be a little on the enthusiastic side.

i did try kissing her neck. she had a very bad reaction, and looked quite scared/shocked. i do not think the issue was her not knowing what i wanted (given the fact i told her i found her attractive and was touching her). whether i did it at the wrong time or not, I think a neck kiss is too sexual when you’re in public - especially for less experienced girls (i suspect she was). i will try out cheek kisses, they are less threatening. After my failed attempt to kiss her neck, she went and sat on the other side of the booth.

i dont believe ill be hearing from her again due to the escalation mistake and the vibe killing logical conversation towards the end. its okay. I'm building up some momentum lately... in the last month ive been on 6 dates. that's a lot for me. looking to keep the ball rolling - today ill have been going out to game every day for 2 weeks straight.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:36 pm

I'm on day 19 of the 30 day challenge.

open loops

I took a break from toronto and im back in my hometown for a few days. Before i left, i was sharpening up my use of open loops, which I've found to be highly effective at triggering emotional reactions from women. But now that I'm home I have taken the opportunity to practice open loops on my female friends who are already emotionally committed to me. Here's an example of one I'm using:

I tell the girl there’s 3 things I like about her:

1. some kind of mannerism.
2. something she has said that I liked.
3. then i say this: "If I were to tell you….you will become conscious of it…and you will stop doing it…so I can’t tell you.”

I used this on a longtime female friend of mine at a party, and she completely freaked out and started yelling, "tell me!!! tell me!!" for like 5 minutes.

Women hate when there is unresolved tension like this. So the next step for me is to get women to qualify themselves to me, in the middle of the loop, and in return i will reward them by closing the open loop for them. When I get more practice, they will have to sleep with me in order to get the loop closed.

She asked for my number

I was gaming at the college in my hometown. Opened an HB6 sitting down reading a book. She was incredibly attracted to me. She discovered we shared some commonalities and had a strong emotional reaction - she got VERY curious.

What happened next shocked me. Instead of satisfying her curiosity, I told her I had to leave! She immediately expressed disappointment and asked me for my facebook - i told her I wasn't on social media. Then, she asked me for my #.

This experience taught me a very important lesson in navigating the emotional reactions of women and how to benefit from them.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:51 pm

date with flyer

i met flyer, a cute HB6 on tinder, who had a playful, genuine personality.

when making plans, we initially agreed to meet at a coffee shop, but she suggested that if it was nice out that we go for a walk on the beach.

so the day comes that we are supposed to hang out, and she wants to meet at the beach - which was strange. the beach was closer to me than the coffee shop, so i didnt really feel like i was accommodating her at all, which is what i try to avoid lately.

it didnt matter in the grand scheme of the date either. my goal was to spend just enough time to build a brief connection with her, spike her emotions a little, show interest in her, then be the one to leave first and leave her hanging. and then i would text her to see if she would be interested in meeting again. cuuuuuz, im interested in fixing this getting-a-2nd-date sticking point i have.

it was very cold and overall unpleasant weather at the beach. gosh, girls are silly when it comes to making plans. anyways, i spent about a half hour with her then told her i had to leave because it was so cold. sort of a weird excuse lol

the good part that was as i told her i had to leave, she kept saying stuff to keep trying to get me to keep hanging out with her. she had drove and parked in a parking lot close to the beach. shes like, “oh well we can go to my car, i have an extra pair of mitts” and, “we can still hang out you know!”

i left and received a text from her:

“flyer: do you need a ride? its cold and i feel bad!”

i then texted her, qualified her, and expressed that i would like to see her again in a warmer environment. she responded enthusiastically that she was interested. so i guess my goal was achieved.

now, I’m leaving to go back to toronto today so ill likely never see her again & wont be able to find out if my goal will TRULY be achieved or not. but this was so interesting to be able to try to do something like this. i seem to be getting pretty consistent dates lately, sometimes with cuter girls, and if i didnt have a slight abundance mentality when it comes to dates, i likely would not have done this experiment and overall just treated this like a throw away date. also was nice to break out of the pattern of waiting for girls to text me after a date.

disqualifying her innocence

i met another tinder girl who lives 1.5 hours away from my parents place. and 5 hours away from toronto. shes interested in a LDR relationship with me. shes DTF, but unfortunately due to me leaving i probably wont be seeing her for a while.

my tinder bio is “choking slapping & intimacy”. she was trying to develop sexual rapport with me, but i kept DQing her calling her too innocent for me, which led to her qualifying her naughtyness to me. it was my first time using a technique like this, and im trying to implement it in person, but i find it only works if the girl is actively seeking something from you, like sexual rapport.

cat lady: beauty, I’m moving to toronto next year! i live in **** but i do drive so maybe we can make something work? do you drive?
cat lady: noticed ya changed your tinder bio, interesting *smirk face*
fog: of course we can make something work. I’m open to it :)
fog: thats exciting that ur moving to toronto! it would make it easier to be creative together. u feeling ready for the big city?
cat lady: yessss I’m applying to ***** :) i know that i will dearly miss and crave those quiet natural spaces i have in a smaller town but i am beyond ready for that big city energy <3
fog: i know what else ur beyond ready for thats big
cat lady: *monkey face*
fog: i think ur way too innocent for me babe
cat lady: you would be way too wrong about that
fog: i bet you never even kissed a guy before :P
cat lady: i super hope that you’re kidding
cat lady: ill be honest i like ur new tinder bio better than ur old one
fog: oh ya? why do u like the new one?
cat lady: its more exciting

at this point i transitioned into trying to find out logistics to see if she could drive and see me that night, unfortunately she was unable to. due to my shitty logistics (living with parents and not being able to have people over) i was okay with going to see her the next day.

cat lady: maybe tomorrow then :)) I’m off work earlier tomorrow too
fog: ok :) the only issue is that i might get stranded overnight. if thats the case can i crash at ur place? no sex until marriage :P
cat lady: i mean as long as you understand the concept of consent and respect I’m fine with that *monkey face*
fog: yes its fine but only with girls who are not very innocent and can handle it ;p
cat lady: i mean as long as you dont expect me to do the choking and slapping, i can very much handle it *kissy face* [finally qualifying to me]

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:28 pm

decided to get bumble, and signed up for plenty of fish, and I’m happy with the results.

had two dates yesterday - both african girls. i have two more scheduled for tomorrow, one for monday, and one for next weekend! I’m sure there will be flakes, but I’m happy with the consistency of dates I’m getting…my goal is at least 1 a week.

going into friday night, women seemed to be digging my vibe when i was just out doing errands. i noticed more girls than usual giving me AIs, and I number closed a grocery store worker. I was in quite the social mood.

date with rebel

I had scheduled a date with rebel for friday night, who id met on bumble. Then I was talking with foofoo (also a bumble girl), who also wanted to meet up, and i was wondering how i’d swing it and fit both into one night, especially if i brought rebel home...

Due to unfortunate miscommunication i was late to mine and rebel's date. I walked into the bar and spotted her sitting at a table all alone with a grumpy look on her face. The poor thing! When she saw me, her face lit up and i snuggled into the booth beside her.

My goal was to be overly attainable. No harsh qualifying, no super polarizing routines..I just wanted to have a good time and focus on verbal escalation and connection since she was already attracted.

She had a huge beer, and she was drinking it very slowly. This was an obstacle in me trying to figure out when I should go for the pull. The ideal length of my dates lately is 45 minutes. I was worried that she would agree to come to my place, but then she would want to stay and finish her beer, and then any emotions would die down. If I asked towards the end of her beer, then there’s a possibility the emotions would have crested already and she wouldnt be down.

anyways, there was a fuck ton of sexual tension between us, and she was looking at me in a sexually receptive way. this is a different sexual look than others, like sparkly eyes or a turned on look. when i would introduce more sexual tension into the conversation, she would giggle nervously. i wonder how i can get better with playing around with this sexual energy. When a girl looks at me in a sexually receptive way, is she trying to seek sexual rapport with me? If so I could flirt and deny her the sexual rapport she is seeking by disqualifying her sexually i.e. you might be too innocent for me.

i was teasing her for being a criminal, and then disqualified her on it:

fog: you might be too much of a criminal for me :)
rebel: sorry

interesting response. she did not qualify to me that she was not a criminal, but instead apologized - what does this response say about where my attainability & value were before, and after the comment? hmmm.

i ended up asking her to come to my place in the middle of her beer. she agreed to it, but i believe i made a slight mistake. heres the gist of how i phrased it:

fog: hey wanna come chill at my place after? no sex before marriage tho!

it was good to disqualify sex from happening, although i did not provide details on the activity we would be doing instead.

anyways, her beer was 2/3 done and i suggested we get out of there. we get the bill (she paid!), she goes to the bathroom, and she comes back and shes on her phone for like 2 minutes (which worries me). we walk out of the bar and she turns to me and starts apologizing, saying she’s just gonna go home. because she’s “tired”

i am caught off guard - but i give her a hug and we share a kiss :)

her objection out of nowhere really caught me off guard and so i didnt handle the situation as well as i should have. i believe that the reason she bowed out early was because i didn’t tell her what we were gonna be doing at my house. either that, or she maybe was worried i was a player.

i got home, looked in the mirror and laughed because there was lipstick all over my face.

i figured i might as well text her using a cookie cutter text recommended by hector

fog: hey i loved my time with u. ur fantastic and i feel like we have a connection. id love to see u again :)
rebel: thats so sweet of you to say :) i had fun too.

wasn’t sure what to make of it cuz she didnt say she wanted to see me again too, but shes texting me this morning so …will probably set up another date for early next week and do some relationship screening.

date with foofoo

i hung out at home for 30 minutes after getting home from hanging out with rebel, then left to go meet foofoo. me and foofoo had initially had a weirdly interesting conversation on bumble that made me think she was fishing for a lay.

foofoo: hey hows it going?
fog: its going good, how are you? gosh ur adorable!
foofoo: I’m very good. and thank you :)
foofoo: hows your day going?
fog: ur welcome. ur so young tho ;P
foofoo: sorry cant help it.
fog: true, i guess i can let it slide
foofoo: *laughing face* thanks?
foofoo: what are you up to?
fog: just bought some ice cream. i cannot control myself around ice cream
foofoo: I’m jealous
foofoo: now i want ice cream
fog: we could share
foofoo: what kind is it. I’m a classic girl
fog: cookies n cream
foofoo: yummmm
fog: i bet you’d hog all of it :)
foofoo: im a sharer
foofoo: i believe in mutual contentment
fog: thats good to know. for some reason i like letting people who are all about sharing and caring into my life. cant stand greedy people!
foofoo: what are you looking for on here. your profile is very mysterious
fog: I’m open to anything really
fog: whats ur plans for tonight?
foofoo: i have none. i was gonna go on this date but the guy was being really aggressive over text so i canceled it
foofoo: and not in a good way
fog: ya sounds like he rubbed u the wrong way
foofoo: ive gotten good at reading peoples intentions and his just felt not great
foofoo: what are you doing tonight?
fog: well i dont have anything planned for later actually. we could get together
foofoo: what do you have in mind?

slight mistake in the next text as i was a little too aggressive, but i calibrated by being less aggressive.

fog: im willing to get to know u better over ice cream at my place - no sex until marriage tho ;P
fog: actually wait no u might be a serial killer - let’s meet in public

so we meet at a bar close to my house.

she kept changing conversation topics fast, not really wanting to connect on any particular conversation topic for very long. i think she just wanted to get to know each other as much as possible on a lot of different topics in the quickest time span so we could go bang, she had already made up her mind.

she was like, “what else is there to know about you?” i literally just told her the age i was turning in a way that introduced tension into the conversation while also relating to her at the same time. then turned the convo back on her.

and then, she practically picked herself up for me. in the middle of the conversation she asked

foofoo: where are we going next?

i told her we could go to my house to listen to some music and watch the office, to which she readily agreed.

although i felt like i had more in common with this girl than rebel earlier on in the night, i did not really feel overly sexually attracted to her

we got straight to my house and started cuddling. from there it was an easy transition into my room. she blew me a bit, i fingered her and ate her out. she had the biggest clit i ever seen. the size could be comparable to a soccer ball.

we tried fucking, but i couldnt stay hard for the condom, was probably inside her for like 2 seconds but i couldnt even feel it. lame.

looking forward to keeping this momentum going...

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:07 pm

what a week

date 1: intersectional feminist

me and this girl (a self proclaimed intersectional feminist) i bet on bumble were vibing pretty nice thru text so i didnt bother to do much screening. although i was slightly sick, we met up and it was a total trainwreck lol! Not only was my vibe off, but she A) was too logical and reasoning B) wouldnt go along with my role-plays and C) was very uptight (as is to be expected from my experiences with feminists). she was getting really bitchy for me joking around about homelessness in an agree and amplify response. i felt like i was walking on glass around her!

date 2: she made all the effort

met a 28 year old asian on bumble, and she put all the effort in. she suggested we hang out first, gave me her number, etc. i wasnt all too interested and didnt bother to do much screening, but opted to meet up with her anyways just for some extra experience.

well, what do you know, she wasnt exactly stimulating to me and was a very analytical person.

the only lesson i got from these two dates is to start screening girls for things i dont like, rather than purely things i do like.

LR-: she didn't speak a word of english

A very interesting experience for sure…the tests she gave me included

- asking me how many girlfriends ive had
- calling me a player
- asking me if i had any spanish friends.

i almost failed the last test because i didnt understand the reasoning behind it at first. i think she was sizing me up for a relationship, and given the language difference between us, she was wondering if there was any shot of it working out. i told her all my spanish speaking friends lived out of town, but then rebounded by saying ive been planning to learn spanish.

she was a little bit of a tease too - grabbing my face and pulling me in to kiss her, then pushing me away. interesting how she played around with the power dynamic between us.

date with rebel - ctd

after our date she texted me and asked what i was looking for. i said i wasnt opposed to the idea of a relationship. she said she was looking for a relationship too. then she started relationship screening me….she disqualified me and told me she wont date me because i dont drink alcohol! lol….

asian girl pulls a powerplay

yeah, i posted about this in the general forum…here’s how the rest of the convo went

me: hi sweetie this is fog from earlier
girl: heeeey *cat face*
me: u look like a little princess in ur photos. so cute!
girl: lmfao thanks
me: no problem. so are u the type of person who’s open to new experiences and trying new things?
girl: follow me on instagram first
me: if we hang out and i like you ill be happy to follow you ;P
girl: lmfao bye you creepy ass MF
me: see ya

ouch!! i increased my value too much and she auto rejected by reducing my value dramatically….sigh….should have thrown a smaller hoop at her, or even opted to reduce my value a little bit… annoying frustrating mistake ..probably could get her back if i wanted to, but ill just go reel in a new girl

she doesnt have a pair of balls

some girl at the subway station qualified her gender to me by saying she doesnt have a pair of balls. then i asked her if she was a lesbian, to which she said no. I’ve been using a false disqualification routine based around age, but i think using a solid false disqualification routine based around sexuality could really get girls chasing

overall recap of the week

been working on my verbal and non-verbal calibration with qualification, amongst other things. i learned so much this week and went on 5 dates. thats the most ive ever been on in a week lol... but now I’m getting date-hungry. i wanna go on a date every day!

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby kristian » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:10 pm

date with rebel - ctd

after our date she texted me and asked what i was looking for. i said i wasnt opposed to the idea of a relationship. she said she was looking for a relationship too. then she started relationship screening me….she disqualified me and told me she wont date me because i dont drink alcohol! lol….

Could it be she was looking for an adventure, and when you said your were boyfriend material, she started disqualifying you? Girls usually "agree" to whatever guys say just because they are primed to follow us, but that doesn't mean she wants the same thing as you.

yeah, i posted about this in the general forum…here’s how the rest of the convo went

me: hi sweetie this is fog from earlier
girl: heeeey *cat face*
me: u look like a little princess in ur photos. so cute!
girl: lmfao thanks
me: no problem. so are u the type of person who’s open to new experiences and trying new things?
girl: follow me on instagram first
me: if we hang out and i like you ill be happy to follow you ;P
girl: lmfao bye you creepy ass MF
me: see ya

ouch!! i increased my value too much and she auto rejected by reducing my value dramatically….sigh….should have thrown a smaller hoop at her, or even opted to reduce my value a little bit… annoying frustrating mistake ..probably could get her back if i wanted to, but ill just go reel in a new girl

This girl just sounds crazy. A thing I am doing lately is just giving them my Insta-account since I talk to them on the streets and I could be a stalker or a harasser. This way they see me as a normal guy.

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:53 pm

kristian wrote:A thing I am doing lately is just giving them my Insta-account since I talk to them on the streets and I could be a stalker or a harasser. This way they see me as a normal guy.

I might experiment with it could also be a positive boost in value if your IG shows off some great aspects of you!

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:59 pm

Day 45 of my 60 day challenge…last week, i reduced my daytime approaches to 1 per week because i had to shift my attention over to my current job search. this reduction in approaches totally killed my momentum, prior to that i was having some of my best sets ever…my body language was so good, my vocal tones were on fire…i was setting all the right frames. so I’m challenged with getting back to learning how i can consistently do those things. unfortunately i am feeling quite unmotivated in the last week. getting better with girls is the last thing i want to do, and this is evident in my interactions. so ill really have to push myself for the next 15 days. who knows though, i might end up going 90.

here’s what i’ve been up to..

FR+: Some girl

had some girl over last monday..met her on tinder, we’d been talking for a while and she was chasing me, but she lived out of town so she wasnt able to come over. then she finally came to toronto, and she wasnt exactly sexy, i wasnt feeling too attracted to her…her voice turned me off more than anything. most i decided to do was kiss her.

FR: Bitchy Owner Ruins My Date

i have a favourite spot close to my house that i like to take girls. its some pub. well i showed up there early. and the owner was like "hey i need to see your ID. you look really young.” which was ridiculous because i wasnt even planning to drink. i didnt have my id on me. so he said i had to leave. i walked out the front door, and my date was standing there, about to walk in. i told her what was up and went to my house to get my ID, while she stayed there. i was back in 20 minutes. big mistake… i should have just gone somewhere else with her.

I get back the owner is like “what are you doing here? i thought i told you that you couldnt be here” …huh!? I’m back with my ID.

He takes me ID and is giving me a hard time over it. He’s saying “hey, how come it doesnt look like you? this doesnt look like you!” he takes it into the back and is asking all the employees if i look like the person on my ID. ridiculous.

I sit down with my date while he’s doing this and she says that while i was gone, the owner was bitching about me to all the customers. She says he makes her feel uncomfortable so we should get out of there after we are done our drink.

Last time i was there with a girl, i made a comment to the owner that the last two girls i had taken there had paid for the bill. Which is true. Usually the girl orders a beer, and i get an iced tea, and then the girl always opts to pay. Well, I think that might have rubbed the owner the wrong way. Why else would he cause such a kerfuffle over me?

I hung out with the girl for 20 minutes. She was blabbing my ear off about her career. I was worried it was overly logical, but hey…if she wants to invest a lot like that, that’s fine with me. We finished our drinks, then we walked outside. I suggested we go to a tavern closeby. She declined because it was getting late and she had to be up early for work. I didn’t persist, it was close to my bedtime anyways. Nbd. The only issue is that I neglected to sort out logistics at the start, and as a result I totally gamed the girl wrong.

I texted her today just for shits and she said she recently got back with her ex boyfriend.

FR++: Mexican Girl From Daygame

i met a mexican girl at a subway stop the other day:

fog: whats your nationality?
girl: why are you talking to me? there are so many other girls in here!

It's funny how she knew my intent from the get go, despite only asking her nationality. I got her number, but she had been ridiculously flakey..which is to be expected.

We hung out at my place last night…she had to have been like what, 36 or something!? She was touching me, i was touching her, but when I ramped up the sexual tension after a while, she got nervous and left. I can see it being an issue with my framing (I GOT LAZY AGAIN!), especially because there was an attainability problem to begin with. If that’s not the case, then she just wanted to practice english with an attractive guy.

How The Average Girl Flirts

I’m not excited about many of the girls I can easily get out on dates... That’s part of the reason I’m so unmotivated right now. They don’t have any edge to them. They don’t tease me. They don’t have any cool facial expressions. Idk whether to work on being able to easily f-close every average girl, or if i should work on increasing the quality i can get.

I appreciate a good challenge. And if a girl is qualifying to me right off the bat, thats just way too easy, i lose interest in her. So I can see why passing a girls test is actually all about not passing her test. If you pass my test, i know youre interested in me. If you fail my test, I get more interested in you because you’re not like all the other girls.


ive been so focussed on getting calibrated with qualification that i havent bothered putting work into having a solid attraction phase. I will focus on this the next two weeks. Part of me wants to keep working on qualification, but I know I am good enough for now. a lot of times ill just use a direct opener, and if she’s responding well then ill go straight into qualy…but I would like to draw out and amplify a girl’s attraction before moving into qualy…

it blows my mind how girls respond in similar, predictable ways to my qualification, and i cant wait to see the similar ways they react to my attraction building techniques.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:32 pm

date with winter

before our date she texts me this:

winter: i did tell you my situation right?
fog: what is it? will it change everything?
winter: its just that i already have a boyfriend. I’m just looking for fun on the side.

we meet close to my place and we were vibing real nice. i noticed she was really digging the side of me that other girls find dumb or weird. so i amped that up.

i asked her what she was up to for the rest of the night - she said she had plans to go home and do some cooking. her state dropped after this. it was strange.

later on, she was laughing her face off and at the tail end of a laugh i said, “let’s get out of here.” her answer explained why her state had dropped earlier. it was because we were both not in the same frame. she explained that her boyfriend finds it hot when she sleeps other guys. she also explained that she has a very low sex drive - as a result, the first meeting for her is usually a short meet and greet in public, with subsequent meetings occurring when she’s horny on a weekend.

it was strangely logical

date with shallow

tried to get her to meet me near my house but she didnt wanna. she was coming from far away and it sounded like she wouldnt have much time to hang due to some school commitments. i figured id just aim for a second date if i liked her.

we meet at some crepe place lmfao. shes highly energetic and shes investing and touching me back right away. we left the crepe place and were walking around, i was holding her hand and kissing her…i am happy to finally be past this hand holding sticking point.

of course, all of this did not come without shit tests, calling my profession boring and constantly teasing me about my height. it was more annoying than anything.

will i see her again? we left things on very good terms for a possible second meeting. if she gets in touch with me, sure ill go for it... but i can go accomplish the same thing, and more with a few new girls this coming week with little effort!

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:44 am

LR: SEVERE daddy issues

i met yikes, an HB6, on bumble. ran my typical game on her…she was responding very well. she teased me a bit that she shouldn’t have to sell herself to me (because she knows her worth) and that i should have to sell myself to her as well. :P

i pushed for a same day meet up, which i’m really starting to realize the importance of for solid momentum.

we agreed to meet at a coffee shop close to my house…unfortunately she was about 30 minutes late cuz of transit. whatever, i wasnt overly worried about my value. she shows up and we start vibing super quick. shes a lovely spiritual soul, very hipstery. she was laughing at everything i said, touching me, my kino was excellent too. lots of leg and back touches, nothing felt forced.

there were kids sitting a few seats down, and i swore…then she mirrored me and swore herself…then i teased her for having such a potty mouth with the kids around, she really found that amusing. i like to tease girls and blame them for things that they didnt do, or for things that are obviously my fault.

i invited her back to my place under the guise of that i dont have sex until marriage. “of course!” she says.

we leave, and walk hand in hand to my place. i tell her the story about my 5 fancy guppies i used to have. these 5 fish got all crazy and soon there was 100s of little fancy guppies swimming around the tank. i could tell which ones were the adults, teenagers and babies. then they all died off except for one fish. she likes this story, but it seems to trigger something deep within her emotions and suddenly she’s worried if I’m a serial killer or something!? huh? she also made a weird comment out of nowhere regarding my frame of no sex till marriage. i didnt understand so i said absolutely nothing.

usually i try to be the first one to screen girls for if they are a serial killer or not. i live in a basement apartment. the entrance is in a dark parking lot, and you have to go down these sketchy steps to get into the apartment. once girls see the parking lot, they immediately get hesitant, so thats why i screen early for serial killers. but i got lazy this time and she beat me to it.

she was very hesitant about even going into the parking lot, but i reassured her everything was gonna be ok. we get into my place and she seems a little nervous. it subsides though.

we sit down on the couch. she asks me if i really dont have sex until marriage and that she would respect that if i did. i tell her, no i was kidding. then immediately after she tells me how her dad is a crazy psycho in jail who was sexually abusive. whoa, okay. well right after she tells me this, her body language opens right up and we start kissing. it did not logically make sense that she wanted to kiss me after telling me this. emotionally it makes sense. like imagine me telling a friend....she told me her dad was sexually abusive and right after, i kissed her!

we go into my room….she sucks a mean dick, i have never seen a girl worship my cock like that before.

and of course there was a happy ending :) we fucked raw a few times.

but wait!! afterwards she says not only was her dad completely psycho and that she moved out early, but she got taken advantage by multiple old men when she was younger.

she is very eager to hang out again. and the best part was when she told me that she has never gotten comfortable with someone so quickly as she got comfortable with me.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:19 pm

LR: Her Boyfriend Wanted Us To Fuck

This is a continuation of my interaction from winter in this post

...A few days later, she texts me to set up a time and date to get together. she asks me if I’m comfortable with her taking pictures of us fucking for her boyfriend. i tell her that’s alright. to thank me, she sends me some suggestive pictures :)

yesterday i go to her place. her boyfriend is at work. we go into her bedroom and the clothes start coming off. she gets very, very excited over the fact that i dont wear underwear. then she starts sucking my dick and i take some pictures…i presume her boyfriend will be jerking off to them later, or something.

i fuck her for a bit and she cums all over my dick. as we're taking a cuddle break, she starts revealing more about her pet cuck. apparently sex with him is quite unsatisfying because the longest he's ever lasted is one minute. In the past, she fucked her ex while her boyfriend was watching and filming it. she said that in the future her boyfriend could watch us fucking if i'm okay with it.

She was also turned on over my muscles and told me I’m the most jacked guy she’s ever been with. That was nice for my validation. :)

i just had 4 dates in the past 3 days, here's a recap of them all:

date 1: architect

I wasn’t overly interested, but wasn’t gonna pass up on getting more experience. We were texting a bit and she had a nice emotional spike after I told her I wanted to learn the korean language. This is one of the many secrets to being attainable with foreign girls: tell them you want to learn their language!

I did not manage her emotions correctly, and my game was honestly pretty sloppy, causing me to put way more effort than usual into getting her out. Another issue was that I did not set a strong romantic frame before our meeting, which negatively impacted our interaction.

We met at some random starbucks. For some reason she was okay with my purposeful touch, but was hesitant towards my incidental touch. So weird. Anyways, from the way things were going, I knew she was likely an inexperienced girl and our interaction would not end in anything sexual. Regardless, I did ask her home. She was hesitant about it. I didn’t push, I didn’t want to spend more time than I had to on this girl.

The most interesting part came after I asked her home. We were walking down the street and i did some slightly taboo behaviour. I took an ornament off one of the street decoration displays and acted like I was gonna steal it. She touched me (for the first time) and had a slight emotional spike. We kept walking. A few minutes later, I looked at her face and her baseline expression had changed. She now had a “softer” look on her face - I was unable to determine if this was a look of comfort or a turned on look. I will be experimenting on future dates. How can I get girls to touch me consistently? This girl liked the “danger” aspect.

date 2: nyan cat

She’s 26 - my age. She was also slightly challenging to get out and took a lot of investment on my part. Our initial first conversation was so good. When I tried to figure out her schedule though, she disappeared. I was confused because it was going so well. I followed up with her and she says this:

nyan cat: heyyy sorry i chickened out :(

AKA, she’s inexperienced.

We kept talking, but it was still a pain to get her out. She was refusing to tell me about herself, and instead pelted me with questions about myself. I provided minimal information, and redirected to asking her to hangout. She objected by saying I could be a serial killer. Ugh, she beat me to the punch. I immediately get on the phone with her and got to know her. I concluded the phone call with some banter/hypothetical situation stuff which she responded well to.

We continued to text that night and I was way more open as she continued to hound me with questions. It’s clear I made a mistake by trying to avoid providing her with the comfort she needed in order to agree to a meet up with me.

The day we were supposed to hang, I actually did a huge push on her related to her height. It was sort of a beta move on my part. I personally had some reservations about her height. She’s like 5’8 or something. I knew it was gonna be an issue, especially if she was looking for a boyfriend. I did a tentative disqualification on her height. She tentatively disqualified me back. So I just stopped replying.

But then that night, she started texting me about how she was disappointed that we didn’t meet. We had another conversation and agreed to hang out a few days later. During this conversation I ran into an attainability rough patch but I handled it correctly:

her: question, do you have asian friends?
me: i have many asian friends
her: question, will you be okay with a walking giraffe?
me: lmfao, yes you are not that tall compared to me
her: its funny how they all ask my height
me: who?
her: people from tinder

We meet at another starbucks close to my house. my plan was to get there early and meet her already sitting down so the height wouldnt get in the way. unfortunately she showed up early.

I walk in and I’m pleasantly surprised by how cute and stylish she is :) We start vibing pretty hard, but then she suggested i get something to drink and i did because my mouth was feeling dry. after that we didnt vibe as heavy. ugh.

I felt the date could have gone waaaay better. She kept asking me boring questions, and was sort of an awkward conversationalist. I was not doing a good job leading the conversation because I was spaced out and tired. Despite this, we were really digging each other. She returned every IOI i gave her.

i asked her twice to come home with me - she said no both times. But she explained that it was not a rejection, and that she would be open to coming to my place at a later date. My “no sex before marriage” remark caused her to bring up sex later in the conversation.

I believe she responds super well to pushes. she said something that was slightly rude. i told her i was offended and turned away from her. She reached out and touched me for the first time!

Towards the end i really slowed the pace of conversation down. it generated a ton of sexual tension. she started being all restless with her straw.

i got a goodnight text from her later. We’re gonna hang out again sometime. I’m in the boyfriend zone with this one though. Might be a while till I fuck her. I wouldn’t mind dating her. I want a girlfriend right now, but am sort of excited about where I’ll be in a few months with girls if my progress continues as a single person

date 3: potty mouth

I ran my typical game on her, then we agreed to catch up at a later date because she was busy with exams.

Later on, I called her, and her reproduction thing seemed to have been triggered because she started throwing me shit tests and was holding strong frames that weren’t present in our first conversation. She was very hyper on the phone, reminded me of the girl from the date last week, who was open to moving fast and otherwise rapid intimacy

We meet the next day and its instant vibing. The issue is that she does not look like her pics! Not fuckable at all.

She was very responsive to sarcastic banter, and that constituted the majority of our conversations. when i tried to tone it down and move it into connection building, she didnt seem to want to do that. i felt it would have helped. I believe she was all mentally tired out from studying and just wanted to have a light conversation.

I was getting very strong signs of interest from her. She mirrored me like mad, was touching me, and when i introduced sexual tension into the conversation, she was responsive to this and got fidgety.

I started holding her hand over the table for a bit (practising this lately) but as soon as we stopped the hand touching, she did a huge push on me in our roleplay saying it just wasnt going to work out between us. she turned away, and so did i. silence. then i brought up a new thread.

Although I do not wish to see her again, I am happy with what I learned from this interaction.

date 4: fleece

Fleece is some south american girl with a baby face. She was also my age. I like girls my age. They just have this “mature” vibe about them that I really dig. And she’s got a lot going for her.

This was a hard one for me to crack though. She was mildly interested. I called her adorable, she told me I was adorable as well. She was touching me. And this part was so cute:

fleece: would you like a bite of my food?
fog: sure darling
fleece: ok honey! *feeds me her food*

but while this was all good, i just couldn’t crack her, emotionally. There was no strong attraction there like there was with nyan cat. It was strange. The conversation was very flatline, all deep diving. We got along, but it made me feel uncomfortable to go any further than just regular kino with her. (could maybe be a verbal escalation/framing/hesitation problem on my part)

The rest was slightly sloppy. I asked her if she wanted to keep hanging out but she said she had to go home. I need to focus on this part in my dates, I should really be using yes ladders here.

We leave and I walk her to the bus stop. I ask her to hold my hand and she says, "why?" Huh!? What do you mean why? Then she asked me for 2 dollars for the bus. I gave her it. I was not thinking and should not have done this - I was basically giving her money for rejecting me!

I bid her goodbye at the bus stop and she says, “see you soon." I usually don't see girls again who say this. ill send her a follow up text in a few days to see whats going on

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:49 pm

FR+: Weird Badoo Girl

I met this girl on Badoo. The first night she was responding very well thru text. I asked her what she was looking for and she told me she was looking for “someone to bone and chill with.” Should have hung out with her that night, derp. I was lazy. We made plans for the next day to meet for coffee.

But the next day (yesterday), she was sort of distant and she flaked on me.

Today, I texted her and invited her over to my house.

She shows up and she is hella tall. We walk into my house and sit down. I put my arm around her. But there is this weird tension in the air and shes not really contributing to conversation.

Admittedly, I probably waited too long to make a move. After about 25 minutes, I kiss her neck once. She doesn’t do anything. Then I ask her some more questions about herself but she’s not really willing to invest.... After that, I kiss her neck more. But it’s like she’s a statue or mannequin or something. We make out and then she says:

girl: i dont know if i wanna do “that”, i just met u
me: thats okay, we dont have to do anything u dont wanna do

We made out again but soon after shes on her phone and she has to go cuz her "friend is not feeling well." this has happened before...

I was thinking she just wanted to show up and have me fuck her right away, and her weird resistance was caused by me moving too slow.

I have some mindsets that are hindering me in these situations where a girl comes straight to my house. i need to accept that i dont need any sort of connection with a girl to sleep with her super quick, and that a girl does not need a connection with me to sleep with me super quick

looking back on the past, theres been girls who have came straight to my house and we were hooking up within 10 minutes. i felt comfortable with it because there was a connection. but then theres also been girls who have came straight to my house and i was very slow to escalate - because i didnt feel a connection. then when i finally got around to it, they put up resistance and left like this girl.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:48 pm

LR: “my pussy is gonna be sore for a week"

this was a nice start to the new year

Last week I made a change to my dating profiles that is making mountains of difference. I made my bio super sexual, and have a two part opener that is synced with my bio. I have been matching with freaky girls who are super dtf :) if i grind i think i can achieve my goal of getting one notch a week

Anyways, I’m visiting my hometown right now. I was at my friend’s party last night which is a short drive out of town, and I matched with this girl on tinder. We started chatting and things were looking good, but there was a logistical issue. It was snowstorming outside and I was stuck at the party with no guaranteed/reliable ride home. Cab waits were crazy. Uber doesn’t exist in my hometown. And she was at the bar in town. Luckily my place is a 10-15 minute walk from the bar.

I found a ride, but my driver was taking his time before leaving and the girl was giving me some resistance over walking to my place in the freezing weather. I was afraid I was going to lose her. I would have gotten the driver to pick up the girl but there wasn't room.

Finally, I get a ride into town and meet her outside the bar. She is definitely not dressed for the weather. We immediately start vibing and walk to my place, arm in arm. Along the way we spot a guy dragging this passed out girl around in the snow, yelling that the cops are coming to help. She's got blood all over her face. I can't believe people get that wasted!

The girl and I walk into my place and get straight into fucking. No resistance or anything. I’m still working on getting good with sex so I made sure to be in the moment and observe how her body was reacting. I wanna notice patterns.

We fucked for like 2 hours. She came a bunch. Then I started fingering her. She came her brains out, really, really hard when i fingered her. “My pussy is gonna be sore for a week!” she says. Girls are getting way harder orgasms when I finger them than when I fuck them. I really gotta figure out how to hit the g-spot with my dick like I can with my fingers.

I didn’t come once - she was sort of upset about it, as most girls are. I reassured her that I rarely do during sex.

It was getting late and we were both getting tired so I called a cab for her. The cab lady said it was going to be a 30 minute wait. So we started fucking some more to pass the time. Next thing you know, it’s been an hour and 10 minutes.. no cab. We call the cab place and the lady said the cab had showed up already but left cuz no one came out. We tell her to send another cab.

This time we make sure we’re not gonna miss it. We go upstairs and fuck on the couch near the window.

A cab finally comes. She leaves and I check my phone. It’s close to 6am, and another tinder girl is telling me to come over. But I’m tired so I just pass out.

Side note: She was a little bit taller than me, and teased me a few times for being short. I had no reaction to it, because it’s like the go to tease for girls who are taller than me. It made me think about the importance of getting creative and unique with my own teasing. She was also stereotyping me quite a bit, which I had no reaction to either. If she really wanted to get my attention, she would have done well with giving me some confusion spikes.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:32 pm

LR-: In a Hotel

This was a girl I’ve known for a while. I messaged her on facebook and she was investing quite nicely. She wanted to go shopping with me. Since I’m leaving town soon, I straight up told her I’m not looking for anything serious. She told me that she wasn’t either and appreciated how “respectful” i was about it.

Since our logistics sucked, I asked her how she felt about public sex. She said she was not opposed to it.

Well, she ended up getting a hotel room for us. She sucked my dick both front side up and upside down. She was on her period. I told her I was “Captain of the Red Sea.” (Got that one from Hector). She was astonished by how blunt I was about it. We were setting up the towels and everything but then she bailed after some further thought. I didn’t push it.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 am

LR-: The Giant Virgin

Met this lady on bumble who was 6 feet tall. She told me she was relatively inexperienced with "getting it on” and was specifically on bumble looking for someone to help with her with this. I told her I would be more than happy to help.

We planned to meet at a tavern close to my place. I’m walking there and I get a text from her:

girl: i’m at the bar reading a book

i thought that was so cute. I walk in, sit down with her and we are getting along quite well. But I can’t quite figure her out. She’s really smart (going for her masters for bio-statistics or something) and seems like a wolf in sheeps clothing. Like if she spent some time on her fundamentals, she could be really, really cute. I didn't use much game on her, just ample amounts of qualifying and connection building.

I pulled her back to mine. She was so nervous, but we eased into it.

I taught her how to suck my dick. I also ate her out really good. Like really good. Edged the fuck out of her. She said she was gonna have a hard time walking later lol

And then, she told me that she was a virgin and was willing to lose it with me. Unfortunately, I just couldn’t keep it up with the condom. It really sucked. I'm mad.

Another girl I’ve been fucking came over last night and she made me cum (first time in ages anyones made me cum) so i think that’s why my dick was acting wonky.

This could turn into a LR. I'll text her tomorrow and try to get her back over.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:34 pm

A Challenge

I’m trying to line up my next lay, and this girl i met named ocean seems to be my best bet. We get along well and she’s very flirty with me.

She’s already agreed to have sex with me and said she’s in the mood tonight. But she keeps delaying it:

- last thursday she said she couldnt meet the next day because she booked a spin class after work

- then i asked her if she could meet on the weekend, and she says shes working from home so she cant. and that it would be better to meet on a weekday cuz she could come straight from work because its closer than coming from home (13km)

- today she tells me next weekend will be better because she has to get her pussy waxed on thursday, and it will make her feel more confident

- and she cant meet tomorrow or the next day, because shes still swamped with work.

heres the convo between us today:

fog: what’s your schedule like this week?
ocean: i work full time so I’m only free evenings and weekend but i think it’d be worth your while to wait till at least friday to schedule me in! ;) I’m technically free next weekend but will probably go out for a friends birthday. just not sure when.
fog: is there any specific reason why its gonna be worth my while to wait until friday at least? :)
ocean: oh i just have my maintenance wax appointment thursday. *laughing face* and not its not for you or anyone, its honestly a personal preference
fog: thank goodness it snot for me or anyone else. i was starting to get worried ;P personally i am impartial to hair and earlier this week works better for me. we should meet tomorrow evening. or tuesday evening
ocean: thats what everyone says but like i said its a personal preference. i like to keep sex as clean as i can. either way, id love to because I’m really in the mood for it but i really cant I’m afraid. my department at work is truly slammed, hence why i worked from home this weekend and we’re trying to clear the backlog
ocean: trust me, ill feel more confident post thursday and ill be able to bring my A game :)

this is outside my experience level so i have no clue how to handle it effectively.

she’s already denied me plenty of times (have i already lost complete value in her eyes?), and im worried about further pushing the boundaries of negative compliance and coming across as too needy and eager, if i continue to push to meet soon.

i could keep her warm till the weekend, but risk emotions dying off.

i could take the pressure off, and ask her to meet for a friendly drink with no expectations. then when I'm in person with her, push for it then. but then she could shoot me down with the work thing again

she very flirty about the fact that i could be seeing other girls, which makes me think she's fucking a lot of other guys too. it makes me think that all this delaying could possibly be a screening process to DQ unsuitable guys.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:15 am

LR: Aggressive Ear Licker

Soooo I ended up banging Ocean from my last journal post. After our last conversation, I decided to start gaming her a little bit harder using some of Mystery's tactics. I called her out on her flaky behaviour with an IOD-DHV combo that flipped things around. She defended herself and I qualified her for this. It could have very easily gone downhill, so I’m proud of the way I handled it. Then I started getting into a heavier qualification routine, but she was qualifying herself REALLY hard to me even before i finished it. I drew this out over the course of a few days. This routine was mostly to see if she was pulling my leg and actually committed to seeing me, or if she was just stringing me along. A test, if you will. Read it below:

fog: dont be certain about getting in my pants unless u bring ur a+++ game and have a bit of luck on ur side. ;) the last time someone was this flaky towards me they scared me off
ocean: i can say the same for you in terms of getting into my pants! but flaky?? thats a stretch, I’m one of the most not flaky people i know if thats any consolation? besides its not like i keep cancelling on set days, ive merely told you what works for me and what doesnt. if you scare this easily maybe youre not for me *thinking face*
fog: i think its admirable that ur standing up for yourself :) dont worry I’m not running away cuz i suspect we have a lot in common darling! and u might have one of my weaknesses. but i cant be sure yet
ocean: ive never been one to take things lying down, so dont think i wont get feisty ;) and would i really be wasting both of our time if i didnt have at least one of your weaknesses? *thinking face* what are your other ones? i may check some more boxes
fog: my biggest weakness is a personality *laughing face*
ocean: oh perfect! cuz what i lack in height i make up for with personality and funniness

Thursday night rolls around and she texts me to make plans for the next day. last night she showed up straight to my house. I started kissing her and she was a really aggressive kisser. In between us kissing and me eating her out she says this:

ocean: am i the first girl you've hooked up with in 2019?
fog: youre the first girl ive ever talked to
ocean: lol bullshit you talked such a big game when we were texting

We also banged, but it was not a good time. I really did not like her overall vibe, and we didn't seem to click sexually. She was fucking licking the insides of my ear. I hate being licked by girls.

As she was leaving she said this:

ocean: i like being kept on my toes and u were a whirlwind

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:48 pm

LR: jamaican girl from hinge

For those of you who like dating apps, you should definitely take a look at Hinge if you haven’t already. It's interesting in that it doesnt allow you to post a bio. It only allows you to give answers to “prompts” like…

“we’ll get along if…."

"im weirdly attracted to...”

At first, I was a little annoyed by this cuz I couldn’t copy and paste my overtly sexual bio from bumble and tinder. grr. I ended up deciding to experiment with my profile…..which i turned into a scorching concoction of humour and qualifying. Surprisingly it’s been working pretty good. I’m getting a ridiculous amount of matches, with higher quality girls than I’m used to. Plus 25%-50% of girls message me first. Whether this is due to the algorithms, the nature of the app, my profile... idk.

Not being able to have a sexual bio ended up being good for me too. I’ve started getting calibrated at setting and maintaining cold sexual frames without the help of a bio.

Anyways... I matched with a jamaican girl who was a fan of the office. I asked her what she was looking for (my favourite question lately):

fog: watchu looking for on here
jamaican girl: i dont know. i have no expectations. what about you?

literally just for shits and giggles, i told her i was looking for sex related to the office (roleplays, dirty talk, etc). she responded positively. from there it was pretty smooth sailing.

i went over to her apartment. she met me in the lobby of the building wearing a loose denim shirt over top of some lingerie. she was very receptive to me.

im still getting over my hesitance to quickly hooking up with girls that i dont even know. i made sure to remember that it’s not about how I feel, it’s about how she feels. She seemed shy. But it was a weird sort of shy. Given the existing frames and her overall receptiveness, I concluded it was a sign of submission. Plus she wasn't responsive to my attempts to build basic rapport. so I didn’t wait any longer. I kissed her neck and she was completely 100% still and silent. Another green light.

What happened next? I will leave it up to your imagination ;p however i practised being rough. threw her around and shit, did what I wanted with her body

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:24 pm

I recently accepted an offer for a new job thats gonna take my career to the next level. I was unemployed for the past 5 months, giving me the ability to dedicate the majority of my time to getting better with women and to be in the "girl-getting" mindset 24/7

My growth during this time was impressive. It’s unfortunate that with my new job, I won’t have nearly as much time or energy to dedicate towards developing my skillset.

After starting my new job, I found that my desire to improve with women pretty well dropped to zero. I could care less than to start conversations with new women, or even to continue developing relationships with girls that im currently involved with. My behaviour took such a drastic change that it got girls (ones that i did start new conversations with) chasing me harder than im used to

This lack of desire is definitely temporary, although it’s given me a little bit of insight into one of my bigger goals for 2019: developing an attractive vibe

Having an attractive vibe is a way of providing value to those around you. Here are some subcommunications/factors that I'm working on to consistently have the vibe i desire:

- horniness
- an elevated state
- high testosterone
- abundance mentality
- women coming 2nd to a main goal

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:56 pm

i dedicate each new month to studying, researching and developing my skills in a specific area of seduction. this month is compliance. one skill I have been working on is reducing negative compliance in my interactions. Here’s a little piece I wrote on a technique to accomplish this:

Avoid Negative Compliance By Probing

Asking probing questions before going for compliance allows you to get the extra information you need to be confident that your compliance request/suggestion/demand will be accepted by her. You will no longer have to worry about your attainability and value being messed up from negative compliance if she declines.

It’s also great for texting. Observing non-verbal IOIs play a big part in knowing when to get compliance from a girl. But we do not have that luxury over text. So using this technique, the high risk of generating negative compliance over the phone is diminished.

Probing questions are easy to implement, and provide immediate feedback on her receptiveness to your upcoming compliance test.

i have identified several different types of probing questions. Behavioral and Logistical. Although there are probably many more ways. All probing questions are in bold.

1.0 Behavioral

girl: do you want to meet up tonight
fog: i have time to meet up tomorrow or this weekend
girl: hmmm i was planning on going to the gym tomorrow. can we do saturday evening?
fog: have you ever skipped the gym to hang out with a guy?
girl: i mean, maybe for you. i need that leg day pump tho.
fog: i have leg day tomorrow too. lets move our leg days to friday and meet tomorrow. it will be way more exciting
girl: hmm. ok. why not?

I almost said, “you should skip the gym and hang out with me”…but this was way more safe.

In certain situations where you are probing, sometimes you are implying something to the girl. It's similar to how when youre building up to getting larger amounts of compliance with a yes ladder, and the girl knows whats going on due to the context. In this case, the girl knew I was testing for her receptivity.

2.0 Behavioral

Here are some more behavioural examples that show the results of not using probing questions vs using probing questions:

2.1 No Probing Questions

fog: imagine we ran away to hawaii together
girl: i couldn't just do that. i have a job!

We did not know if she would be receptive because we did not ask probing questions. She ultimately was not receptive and negative compliance was generated.

2.2 Probing Questions

fog: do you like your job?
girl: no i hate it
fog: would you rather travel?
girl: absolutely
fog: imagine we ran away to hawaii together
girl: thatd be so sick. everyone would be jealous of our tans

we discover she is receptive through probing questions, so it is safe to ask for compliance. she accepted it.

3.0 Logistical

Here’s the logistical type of probing questions. the same structure as section 2 is used.

In the below example, the girl says she can hang out at 730. but can she hang out earlier?

3.1 No Probing Questions

girl: i can do 730
fog: we should meet at 7
girl: sorry, 730 is the earliest i can do.

We did not know if she would be receptive because we did not ask probing questions. She ultimately was not receptive and negative compliance was generated.

3.2 Probing Questions

girl: i can do 730
fog: is 730 the earliest u can do?
girl: yes, why?
fog: just curious

Through probing questions we discover she would not be receptive, thus it is unsafe to ask for compliance. We redirect and negative compliance is avoided.

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Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:54 pm

LR: Frisky Dingo The Future Gym Teacher

i had a wonderful sexual experience the other day in my hometown. i always appreciate a visit here because the girls are so much easier than the ones in toronto.

i matched with this girl on tinder and opened with my favourite line:

fog: what are u looking for on here
frisky dingo: not looking for a relationship. just to have some fun and hang out with cool people. you?
fog: nice. I’m looking for fun too. are u open to a fun sexual adventure?
frisky dingo: yeah I’m open to that! what kind of adventure? you can tie me up
fog: that sounds like fun. is there anything else ur into? i wanna make this equally as pleasurable for the both of us
frisky dingo: pretty much just being dominated. abs are always a turn on too. you?
fog: ur totally singing my song right now cuz i love taking control & love obedient women. we should meet, whats ur schedule like?
frisky dingo: perfect! I’m usually in classes all day and work evenings but next weekend I’m free. or monday i have a cancelled class so i am free after 2
fog: so you have no free time today or tomorrow?
frisky dingo: well i do have some time between 4-8pm today
fog: lets meet at 5pm?
frisky dingo: sure where?
fog: do you ever have guys over to your place?
frisky dingo: no i cant because of my roommate
fog: ok how comfortable are u with public sex?
frisky dingo: ive never done that before. where would we go?
fog: I’m sure we could get creative….somewhere warm and secluded
fog: an empty classroom in the college maybe
frisky dingo: i would be terrified of janitors roaming around lol. I’m actually pet sitting this weekend so i have access to my friends house
frisky dingo: they just have cats
fog: ahah okay that actually works for me
frisky dingo: lol perfect! the address is 111 poundtown lane

i walk to her friends apartment building, which is like a 10 minute walk away (thank goodness). frisky dingo arrives at the same time. shes receptive and we walk into her friends apartment together. her friend has 4 cats. we observe the cats, briefly make some small talk about them and then i lead frisky dingo to her friends bedroom. i lay down on the bed and look at her. she seems a little hesitant, but gets into bed with me and we start kissing.

then i go down on her and start eating her out. “you’re good at this!” she exclaims. the bedroom door is closed but one of the cats is right outside the door, making atrociously loud meows. me and frisky dingo have a good laugh over this. she takes for-fucking-ever to cum though. maybe like 30 minutes? idk whether it was the cat ruining the concentration, or if it’s just naturally difficult for her to cum.

anyways, soon after i throw a condom on and i get her to climb on top of me & start riding me. shes riding around on my dick like it’s glass that could break at any moment. maybe she is inexperienced?

its not fun so i try to switch around to doggy so i can have more control but go soft before i can get it in. i practically follow the same routine every time i have sex with a new girl and am noticing that i go soft when trying to switch to doggy early on in sex. the problem is with the way approach it. i usually stand on the floor while the girl is on the bed. literally every single time her butt is way too high in the air for me to get it in. i try to adjust her butt to the right height, but by then I’m soft. i will try a workaround.

anyways, i get back on the bed and we start kissing again. soon i am hard again :) kissing is like a reset for my dick.

we start fucking again in adapted missionary, and soon progress to some legs over the shoulders type shit. this is where the real fun begins for the both of us. i lose my inhibitions, and really let myself go, doing whatever i wanted to her, taking her however i wanted. i would throw her all over the bed and she’d be like, “oh!” .. so cute! all of this felt really good, and she was becoming more comfortable and loose as well. i was trying out all sorts of different angles. it seems there is this “over and forward” angle that some of the last few girls have liked. it is not always easy to find.

although the lack of inhibition was good, i am not good at holding rhythms in certain positions for long amounts of time. and i wish to be more dominating. i wish i could have been more aggressive with her, like shoving her face into the bed while fucking her. i just couldnt bring myself to do it. i guess i will become like oh pry in time, i suppose.

two moments stick out. i was railing her real good, then i looked at her face and she looked really aroused, like she had just spent the last 2 hours of her life on laughing gas laughing her ass off. also, sometimes i would stop fucking her to take a break, and her pussy would be shaking violently. ahhh :)

We take a water/pee break and are lying in the bed and talking. But there is some sort of negative tension that I cannot figure out how to solve correctly. It is the sort of tension that I observe in a girl when i am not leading strongly enough. I can guess that frisky dingo just didn’t know what exactly should be happening. If she is inexperienced, maybe she doesn’t know how to act after sex - which is it’s own problem. But hopping straight into sex like we did without getting to know each other is a problem all in its own. I deep dived her a little during this time. but perhaps I should have complimented her, qualified her, or paced her...

Anyways so we are talking and she said her friends nicknamed her frisky dingo. she also tells me she is in school for physical education and hopes to become a gym teacher. aww.

we fuck a second time with her on top again, except this time is more fun - i get her to lean over so theres more body contact and im more in control. This is a favourite position of mine, the only downside is that it usually makes me develop feelings for the girl. I almost came, there was an amazing angle we had for a second but I couldn’t find it again. I last for hours with a condom, but hopefully once i get a little better i will know how to get consistently get myself off during sex. i think learning how to make myself cum during sex will also help with making the girls cum harder too. especially since what feels good for me, usually feels good for the girl too.

We finish things off and get dressed. As we are getting dressed that weird tension is back. I give her a kiss and say goodbye.

I haven’t sent a follow up text to the last few girls I’ve fucked. This was something I used to do, but for some reason can’t really justify it for girls I’m not going to see again. I did catch a little feelings for frisky dingo, so i allowed myself to text her to tell her i had fun. I think this was a good choice - if she was inexperienced, then I helped mould her expectations of what a positive sexual experience with a guy should look like.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby kristian » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:14 pm

Youre getting lays like crazy man. That's awesome.

From reading your recent posts, do you still cold approach or do you find the girls on Tinder/Bumble? Is there any drawback not cold approaching (like not reading signs face to face or working on fundamentals/vibe on the streets?).

The reason I am asking is that I find online dating/apps just about hooking up, making them less challenging than street cold approach for hooking up.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:42 pm

hi kristian

kristian wrote:do you still cold approach or do you find the girls on Tinder/Bumble?

all the girls im fucking lately are from online

i haven’t given up cold approach. I just exclusively approach in the spring/summer months. so you can expect me to continue daygaming once the warmer weather rolls around :P

kristian wrote:Is there any drawback not cold approaching (like not reading signs face to face or working on fundamentals/vibe on the streets?).

yeah there are some skills that are sharpened through cold approach that you can’t develop when you’re doing online game. subcommunications for example.

despite not cold approaching lately, other aspects of my game like my fundamentals and awareness of signals are excellent. I continue to work on them in my daily social interactions.

kristian wrote:The reason I am asking is that I find online dating/apps just about hooking up, making them less challenging than street cold approach for hooking up.

online game is less of a challenge than cold approach - i agree

although i will be rusty when i start daygame again, im happy i focused on online game for a good while. the time and energy i put into getting good at skills like texting was worth it. they are directly transferable to daygame

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:18 pm

LR: First Time 69ing

met this trinidadian girl on tinder & she agreed to come over to my house.

as I’m standing outside waiting for her, she walks up to me and gives me a hug. She reeks of submissiveness.

becky: i’m having the worst day!

She assumes rapport very heavily and starts telling me about how shitty she’s feeling because of some crazy drama that’s been happening to her the past few days. Looks like all the signs are good.

I lead her into my house and into my room. I encourage her to take off her coat and sit on the bed with me. She does and continues to explain about her bad day.

Conversation turns more neutral after i kiss her neck. But then she accuses me of agreeing with everything shes saying. subtext: youre agreeing with everything I’m saying just to get in my pants!... i deny it, but make a note to keep an eye on my behaviour and introduce a hint of disagreeableness into the conversation shortly after.

I’m escalating very quickly but she keeps stopping me gently. It’s moving too quick for her and she just isn’t ready yet.

Minutes later however, we’re naked :)

In between rounds she started to test me. She was being physically aggressive towards me. One of the things she did was, she put her hand around my neck several times, as if to choke me. I could not allow it. One of the times she did this, I took her hand off me and shoved her face very hard into my bed. She made some sort of squeak. Then she looked at me with a glowing, turned on face. For the rest of the time she was a total kitten.

To finish things off we 69ed. it was so sick cuz i actually came for once

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:33 pm

Becky's Conversion

beckys been over a few more times. shes become attached. i feel nothing.

ive figured out her pussy and gained some insights into how to be a better lover

i have not been posting my lessons & learnings in my public journal lately. that will be changing because i have been improving in leaps and bounds and i want to share this crazy transformation im experiencing with the world.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:03 pm

LR: Persisted for 4 Months

i met an indian girl named purple on badoo. she was very flirty and qualified to me heavily.

ive always wanted to bang an indian :)

we made plans to hang that thursday. but she flaked. after that we actively continued to make plans. but she’d always flake last minute. for 4… months….straight.

the excuses were 96% family oriented. she lives with her parents and they’re very strict. so a lot of the times her parents wouldn’t let her go out. or family related events would pop up that took precedence over hanging out with some guy from the internet. one time we were supposed to chill and her parents got in a car accident. it didnt help that she lived 30km away.

it was all very frustrating to me. but i knew her excuses were legit because she’d qualify herself to me whenever prompted. and she would express a lot of frustration herself.

i wasnt putting in a lot of conversational effort to begin with but after a while i texted her less and less. i knew that as the months wore on i would inevitably end up making a mistake and killing attraction. i started texting her just to make plans. predictably, she complained saying she should talk more

finally (perhaps the planets aligned or it was sheer luck), we actually managed to get together yesterday.

i met her on the street outside my place and it was on right away

i brought her into my room and within 10 minutes we were all over each other

my dick was acting all wonky though. i started feeling some pressure and psyched myself out. my mind was racing. i had talked to this girl for 4 months, only to be unable to fuck her when the chance came around? i would always regret this!

good news though. i coaxed myself into relaxing. then i got it up and fucked her rawwwwww

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:53 pm

LR-: Tiny Asian Chick

she messaged me first on tinder with a smiley today - it was smooth sailing from there

she came over to my place

we walked into my room and sat on my bed. she seemed sort of uncomfortable, but did not resist when i started kissing her neck less than 2 minutes later

took her pants off, then i ate her out and fingered her really, really good

but i couldnt get it up. she left disappointed

man what is wrong with me......... :(

on the flip side (need to give myself at least some credit) im turning into a savage. im moving quicker than ever and not letting stuff like my perception of a girls' vibe get in the way of that. lost a few girls to that before but never again

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby Hue » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm


Could you share some of the texts to getting girls straight to your house? That's a roadblock I've ran into because girls don't want to head straight to some strangers' place. There's a lot of unknowns in doing so, and I don't really blame them, so I'd love to see how you cut through this.

Always be a student.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:18 pm

Hue wrote:Could you share some of the texts to getting girls straight to your house? That's a roadblock I've ran into because girls don't want to head straight to some strangers' place. There's a lot of unknowns in doing so, and I don't really blame them, so I'd love to see how you cut through this.

thats a problem i used to struggle with too hue

its not just about the texts - its about the way you behave & the type of girl you're dealing with

theres two types of girls looking for sex online:

Type 1: down to come straight to your place
Type 2: wants to meet in public and get to know you a little bit first before getting down to business

my favourite line to open with is, “what are you looking for?” This is a common question used online by fuckboys - girls know my intentions when i ask it

once ive identified that they are looking for sex, i start screening for their sexual preferences. i dont bother building a connection and treat it like it’s a transaction

this behaviour suggests to the girl that im looking for a quick hookup and it effectively screens out type 2. ive found that as soon as i start probing into their sexual preferences, they deflect & let me know they want to meet in public first

what im left with is type 1 and i can confidently say, "my place or yours?"

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby Hue » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:43 am


Thanks man, makes sense. I've been going for openers that qualify or build intrigue - I wonder if I make a focus to really improve my pictures (they're not that good, I don't think. I do not take photogenic pictures) then that will change how girls respond to my openers.

Will still give this a shot though.

Also, on the ED thing, check out a recent GC podcast.

I've struggled with this before. I think diet is HUGE, and you gotta eat clean (but if I remember correctly you're vegan right?).

Meditation has given me erections before (like shari mentions), which if I had to drop a personal opinion on why that's the case I would think is that it clears your background brain processes to do their thing if they've been blocked out for whatever reason.. but that's just my personal spirituality meets neuroscience explanation. Just know that it's legit...

Exercise boosts testosterone and clears your system out to promote good blood flow.

I also avoid masturbation like the devil, and only do it if I haven't had sex that week on Sunday (tip from Alek).

Other than that I think the biggest boner killer is worrying about not being able to get up. Meditation helps with this alot to stay in the present and know how to focus yourself into the present when you catch yourself not being there.
Always be a student.

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:16 pm

Hue wrote:I wonder if I make a focus to really improve my pictures (they're not that good, I don't think. I do not take photogenic pictures) then that will change how girls respond to my openers.

improving your pictures is a good idea. on top of picture 'quality' id suggest keeping in mind the overall vibe that your pictures are portraying. that can play a huge part in how they respond too.

Hue wrote:Also, on the ED thing, check out a recent GC podcast.

thanks for sharing that man, i was surprised and relieved to hear that a lot of guys out there in their 20s struggle with this

im not vegan anymore and theres currently room for improvement in my diet. im at the gym 4-5 days a week but dont do much cardio. i wonder if throwing some cardio in there would help? meditation used to be a daily habit, but not anymore. ill start making some changes and see if i notice a difference.

ive also decided im quitting porn for good. i noticed its causing a vicious cycle for me. ill be getting girls and wont be interested in porn. then i lose interest in girls for a few months and relapse on porn. then ill get interested in girls again. but because my dicks hooked on porn, i have trouble getting it up till i retrain my dick

hope youre having fun on your vacation, i have a weird feeling you'll come back with 7 new kills

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Re: fog talks about women

Postby Sub-Zero » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:03 am


Had some questions because I started online game as well recently.

1. How do you know a girl you invite the first night over won't be some crazy chick? How do you screen she won't do some crazy shit to you in your crib?

2. How would you go about going to the girls house whether with a date or without one? I'm working on my own place, so that's really my only option right now.

3. What's your whole text game like from the app to the meet up? Like how long do you usually text from the app and on the phone to the meet?

I always want to move fast and ask quickly, but heard it was good to wait a few messages, but I like to get the number quick.

4. Dealing with girls who aren't trying to make it easy, but give you compliance? Dealing with a girl right now who doesn't really get to know me, when I talk to her and ask her questions and for her number she replies fast, so I think I can work something out, but I still feel that I need to build rapport for the lay or the date.

It's like she's not giving much to work with, but she replies fast, I asked her something else and she ignored it, but gave the number already and I left it alone, so it's weird with that one.

What's the solution sound like to you?

What's the best method for getting to know girls and to make them comfortable in general?

Thanks man.

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