How would you improve Girls Chase?



How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:40 pm

Rob suggested me to write about this.

I was thinking about it, too.

But as Chase suggested great new improvements are coming to Girls Chase, I thought it would probably be a little pointless on lamenting how to improve on the current, who knows how old everything if they are going to be replaced with shiny, new stuff at any moment, right? Maybe one freebie product will be finalized and suggested, so the whole question of "where to start with Girls Chase?" question wouldn't be so confusing.

Anyways, speaking of improvements, I'd pick one thing for now. New YouTube videos by Hector. I see the improvement in production quality and I like the attitude better than older Hector; I appreciate that! However. I see Hector comes from the Latino American community (or how to say it) so he speaks faster than most Americans I have an easier time understanding as English isn't my primary language.

This video: 2 Hairstyles For Men That Women Find Sexy (2018). He talks about 'Dez I' (this is how the Closed Captions on YouTube caught it, at around 9:20) and 'Endless Summer' and his undercut hairstlye. First of all, Google didn't help me at all to locate this Americanism; is he talking about a hip hop artist or a movie star? I have no idea. He mentions I should look up pictures of him. Hint: on YouTube it helps if you simply insert a few of his photos in the video. Or if you spell out names which are not obvious to everyone. As you spelled out a few key concepts (with white text on blue background). If Hector spoke a little slower I think that helped foreigners to get more of his message. To answer your question, Hector ('are you going to have a haircut after watching this video?'); I've just had my undercut a few days before watching the video, so. :)

Then this video: Be Optimistic! Clara is Back to Chat With Us About Why Optimistic Men Are Sexy. I've found it interesting how this Romanian girl is so well versed in American slang such as bitchy resting face. I wonder if the average Romanian girl could follow what the heck she is talking about at all. I'm not a Romanian girl but I have a hard time following them. I've heard the term bitchy resting face before but only as a meme or a joke. And here they are taking it as one of the core concepts of the video. I'm a little confused. I sense they don't use the term according to its dictionary definition. My understanding is that a bitchy resting face is a consequence of your genetics; some girls are simply born with it, but that's all about it. OK, I know much more about stupid American Internet memes than most people around here, but I certainly wouldn't call myself an expert. To try to put it in much simpler terms (which doesn't require the audience to second guess and be up to date with the latest American memes), do they simply mean by a bitchy resting face when a girl implies: "No, I'm not interested/No, I don't want to talk to you (now)?"

Clara also talks about players like they were common occurrences in Romania and it would be so easy for every girl to spot them and they all had their clearly formed opinions on them from personal experience. I don't know. If you are spotted as a player, you are doing something wrong, right? Also she speaks bubbly - of course, she is a girl, this is how girls speak -; sure, the two are having a nice conversation and a great time together, but I think it would help the average male audience if Hector re-formed her bubbly talking points to more solid ones which are more easily understandable for men.

I don't know whose idea on the team was that those cheap-looking stock photos would fly on YouTube. I mean, you certainly should watch more YouTubers' content; cheap-looking stock photos are not in style on YouTube. They never were. All in all, the Girls Chase YouTube channel has 1.8K subscribers now. I'm looking forward to see it growing to 18K, 180K, and so on! Youtube is an art form in itself.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:43 am

There isn't a publication date attached for your blog posts or articles for some reason. Most of the 99% of articles or blog posts are articles have a publication date next to them. Am I the only one interested in this information? Like you are writing about a topic multiple times, your idea might change about that topic. It's good to know which idea was your previous one, which is the latter one. It's like you think that when you publish an article it holds true forever, that you don't find it possible to change your mind about that topic in the future, or you wouldn't gain more insight or whatever that might change your view on the topic or you just want to add more insight as you mature? Again, I just don't get it. 99% of articles blog posts on the Internet come with a publication date. Yours don't. And I think they are an important piece of information related to that post or article.

I've said this before, but as I made this topic it's better if we have it here: Mobile first. I've tested this on multiple devices but the text of your articles or blog posts appears smaller on my mobile devices than text of most other stuff I read on the same mobile devices. Like painfully small. It's not very helpful as most people these days prefer to read on mobile devices rather than on traditional computers.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:56 am

Marketing messages for real people by real people vs. "sales letters" (no human really reads).

I've subscribed to the email newsletters of Roosh and Mark Manson. I don't say I read all their emails, but they are short and to the point. And they are not that frequest that you feel you are spammed by them. They felt like they didn't hire a copywriter to write them (the fact that Chase wrote somewhere here, that now he has to hire the copywriter to write the 'sales letter'), their emails felt like they were actually written by a human being for another human being. Sometimes giving a little personal info about the author, an announcement of a new blog post, or some straightforward, no-nonsense call to action to buy something from them. Which is normal. Their product pages are also short and to the point as if they were written by an actual human being to another actual human being with the expectation that they could actually read this sweet and short sales page. As it's not one of those endless sales pages written by 'professionals' no humans actually read (nor should they).

I and I think the majority of forum members would be interested in a similar, 'human' newsletter rather than the sales letter type thing he currently has in place. Do you guys actually read Chase newsletters? You may click through a few links so he has the statistics, but you may not read the whole 'sales letter.' Fair enough.


Honest vs. sensationalist marketing messages and fear of missing out tactics

I don't quite understand how this new program, One Date is in beta (beta as in software release terms) for like 2 years? People can buy it in limited quantities for 2 years, but in limited quantities only because it's not full ready yet? That's the explanation I've read, but that just doesn't make much logical sense to me. Maybe you can just call the current version 1.0 and you can still work on it continuously to make it 2.0.

Anyways, this is not my main point. One of the newsletter emails I clicked on said something like this: We will soon roll out our new program (that is One Date) so we will discontinue our old product (the How to Make Girls Chase ebook) so you have buy it now or it's gone forever. Really? Let's think about it for a second! Chase, I understand your target demographics differs, you have readers and buyers from all over the world from all sorts of background, and this forum on the other hand has much fewer people compared to your whole audience, and strangely, mostly Americans. But I've found the people here are smart and sophisticated. So the marketing message is that you should buy the old product now because it will be discontinued and replaced by the new one. Logic says the new one should obviously be better and improved than the old one, right? So if the person reading your newsletter has minimal brain, he may conclude that this isn't really an honest marketing message. An honest marketing message would look like this, for the above example:

We are still working on our new and improved product (One Date), but if you can't wait to improve your dating life until then, why don't you grab our old product in the meantime (How to Make Girls Chase) and when One Date is ready, we grandfather you into the new program for the same price or at a discounted price. Sounds like a fair deal? (I don't know the exact pricing of One Date, you have to sit through an unskippable video to find it out; more on that one paragraph below).

Unskippable marketing videos. I've said above I don't know about the overall demographics of people buying your products, I only have experience with fellow forum members, who I've found to be smart and sophisticated people. I know. I've seen those unskippable sales videos before, but mostly on the shadier parts of the Internet. Mostly selling shadier looking products by probably shadier sellers to probably less sophisticated buyers. But for a comparison, here's what I've found for example on one of the The Natural Lifestlyes guys' sales pages: They just uploaded the sales video to the popular video hosting site Vimeo. You can actually see how long the video is, You can pause or resume it as you please (you can go to the toilet or pause to have your dinner in the meantime), and there is a Click Here To Buy Now! button on the bottom, you can click to buy the actual product without any wait, you don't have to go through the video once if you don't want to. If you are an honest seller trying to market what you consider a solid self improvement product to smart people and you coincidentally have a sales video to help you selling it, I don't see any good reason why you shouldn't do it this way and go the unskippable video fear and scare tactics route. Do you?

I write this post (and thread) in a good faith to see the product improve, by the way. I seem to need to put up these disclaimers.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:02 am

Honest affiliate marketing and partners

Affiliate marketing is fine or it may be even cool, but only if you, the person recommending the other person or product are 100% behind your recommendation. If you aren't 100% behind it, then, well, it's a little bit less cool.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:37 pm

I would like more articles about how guys with poor fundamentals, who do not get approach invitations, can do well. Many of the GC contributors have excellent fundamentals but most people do not have those. Basically, I want more stuff for the average or below average guy who wants at least average results. Some people don't have the fundamentals to be super players with a harem, but basic stuff helping guys like this to get married etc. would be better. There's plenty of information that applies to them - move fast, approach direct when possible etc. etc. - but I want specific advice for guys with poor fundamentals.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Hue » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:03 pm

I would like more articles about how guys with poor fundamentals, who do not get approach invitations, can do well. Many of the GC contributors have excellent fundamentals but most people do not have those. Basically, I want more stuff for the average or below average guy who wants at least average results. Some people don't have the fundamentals to be super players with a harem, but basic stuff helping guys like this to get married etc. would be better. There's plenty of information that applies to them - move fast, approach direct when possible etc. etc. - but I want specific advice for guys with poor fundamentals.

Improve your fundamentals.

Great Fundamentals: Handling Your Intangibles
If You Want to Do Well with Girls, Fundamentals are Everything
Always be a student.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Seppuku » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:46 pm

Strictly Increasing,

strictlyincreasing wrote:I would like more articles about how guys with poor fundamentals, who do not get approach invitations, can do well. Many of the GC contributors have excellent fundamentals but most people do not have those. Basically, I want more stuff for the average or below average guy who wants at least average results. Some people don't have the fundamentals to be super players with a harem, but basic stuff helping guys like this to get married etc. would be better. There's plenty of information that applies to them - move fast, approach direct when possible etc. etc. - but I want specific advice for guys with poor fundamentals.

What you say shows that you misunderstood what "fundamentals" are. "Great fundamentals" are not something you are born with. Fundamentals are what you can do with what you have, beyond just what nature gave you. And that's a lot!

You can work on losing body fat. You can work on gaining muscles. You can work on having a better posture, and on how you walk. You can work on your hairstyle and on your facial hair. You can work on having a deeper voice. You can work on using a sexy tone. You can work on controlling your body language and using it to your advantage. You can work on developing your own dressing style and sense of fashion. You can always experiment with many different styles. Etc...

These are all things you can do - if you are willing to spend the time necessary. It is all within your reach - provided you work on it. We on the boards who have "excellent fundamentals", we worked on ourselves, sometimes for years, to get there. We developed these fundamentals. And in fact, there is always more we could do to improve further. The sky is the limit!

Girls understand that very well, and they turned "improving fundamentals" into an art. They strive to deliver the most they can with what they have, in terms of appearance. You take an average, skinny girl, cute but no more. She will wear a miniskirt and wonderbras, walk on high heels, learn to move her ass when she walks. She will color her hair, get hair extensions, put some make up, lipstick and mascara, powder her cheeks, wear some fake eyelashes, etc... And voila, you have a "hot girl". And guys will go crazy for her - because most of us don't see through all that. Once you have stripped naked a few of these, you start to understand that the true beautiful girl is not that common place after all. It was all fundamentals!

If girls use and abuse it, why wouldn't we do the same?

Cheers,
Seppuku
PS. The specific advice to guys with poor fundamentals, is therefore to work their asses off on improving their fundamentals.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Chase » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:20 am

Space-

Thanks for the critiques.

Every newsletter we've ever sent, save a few written by Ethan Fierre (our old editor), and labeled as such, I wrote.

We're going to need to hire a copywriter at some point. This is extremely hard to do right though, and I don't know when we'll get around to it.

The newsletter you're likely referring to was the "Mastery is going away forever, so if you want it, buy now" one. I think we sent that 9 or 10 months ago or so, not long before One Date came out.

We haven't officially removed Mastery from the site (and somehow a few guys a month find it and buy it), but it's not linked to anywhere except via old emails, and as soon as we finish retooling the email auto-responder it will indeed be fully and completely removed.

Newsletter length -- I don't know what those other guys' emails or like or what their deliverability rate is. Most guys in this space I've seen have emails that go to the spam box or promotions box. Each one I send is a mini article; a lot of readers seem to like it, and it keeps our emails making it into most guys' inboxes. It's also more fun for me to write than a bunch of inane sales pitches.

Beta test on One Date... yeah, we need to stop calling it a beta test. It's been out for 10 months now. We've probably got to keep the price at $67 and not $227 though (though I do want to test it at $227), and you need a reason to do that in the sales letter. I'll talk to my copy coach about it; we're doing a slightly revised version of the sales letter this week probably, so maybe we can switch that up too.

Unskippable sales video -- we're going to figure out a way to cookie the page so returning visitors see a page and a button, etc. That way if it's not your first time on the page, and you went and mulled it over and now just want to buy, you can come back and do that. But first time view it needs to be unskippable. When you don't make the video unskippable, it's like letting a prospect cut off your sales pitch in person at the outset or a girl tell you to skip the formalities and tell her what you want with her a minute after you open. It doesn't work. An info product is not a commodity, like buying a can of Coca-Cola. 98% of prospective buyers hitting the page don't know anything about the product or why they'd want to buy it. You need to make them stop and listen to the spiel before you give them the chance to make a decision (which is what giving them a buy button does -- buy button shows up, decision time begins). Otherwise they click around, ignore the video, distracted by the button or whatever else is on there, go to the checkout page, and since they aren't sold yet they say "67 dollars, I don't even know what this is about or why I'd buy it, I don't want to pay 67 dollars" and they leave.

(that's a long way of saying... the small number of very regular and highly informed folks don't like marketing like this. And it sucks to make anyone unhappy -- but if you cater to these folks instead of the vast, colossal majority of guys who are not informed and ready to buy, you don't have a business. Or maybe you do, but it's not a very good business, and it's not going to grow or be able to support any number of other talented people for all that long. Believe me, I wish there was a way I could take a guy who knows nothing about us and say "Hey. Got something cool for you. It's gonna help you out a lot. Go here and pay the money and we'll begin" and have that work. Just like I wish there was a way I could see a beautiful girl, approach her, and say "Hey. Best dick of your life, right here. Take your clothes off" and get that working. It can occasionally, but the odds are just real low, sadly. You've got to sell people first)

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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby strictlyincreasing » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Seppuku wrote:Strictly Increasing,

strictlyincreasing wrote:I would like more articles about how guys with poor fundamentals, who do not get approach invitations, can do well. Many of the GC contributors have excellent fundamentals but most people do not have those. Basically, I want more stuff for the average or below average guy who wants at least average results. Some people don't have the fundamentals to be super players with a harem, but basic stuff helping guys like this to get married etc. would be better. There's plenty of information that applies to them - move fast, approach direct when possible etc. etc. - but I want specific advice for guys with poor fundamentals.

What you say shows that you misunderstood what "fundamentals" are. "Great fundamentals" are not something you are born with. Fundamentals are what you can do with what you have, beyond just what nature gave you. And that's a lot!

You can work on losing body fat. You can work on gaining muscles. You can work on having a better posture, and on how you walk. You can work on your hairstyle and on your facial hair. You can work on having a deeper voice. You can work on using a sexy tone. You can work on controlling your body language and using it to your advantage. You can work on developing your own dressing style and sense of fashion. You can always experiment with many different styles. Etc...

These are all things you can do - if you are willing to spend the time necessary. It is all within your reach - provided you work on it. We on the boards who have "excellent fundamentals", we worked on ourselves, sometimes for years, to get there. We developed these fundamentals. And in fact, there is always more we could do to improve further. The sky is the limit!

Girls understand that very well, and they turned "improving fundamentals" into an art. They strive to deliver the most they can with what they have, in terms of appearance. You take an average, skinny girl, cute but no more. She will wear a miniskirt and wonderbras, walk on high heels, learn to move her ass when she walks. She will color her hair, get hair extensions, put some make up, lipstick and mascara, powder her cheeks, wear some fake eyelashes, etc... And voila, you have a "hot girl". And guys will go crazy for her - because most of us don't see through all that. Once you have stripped naked a few of these, you start to understand that the true beautiful girl is not that common place after all. It was all fundamentals!

If girls use and abuse it, why wouldn't we do the same?

Cheers,
Seppuku
PS. The specific advice to guys with poor fundamentals, is therefore to work their asses off on improving their fundamentals.


It would be great if what your post is expressing is true. But these things don't work for every guy. My muscles, dress sense, posture etc. have not helped me one bit. I've had so many bad experiences and I know that it is all down to my poor fundamentals. The most important fundamentals are the ones that you're born with. Why are the best PUAs/seducers in the world tall or white or have a full head of hair at age 30+? These are fundamentals that you can't work on and that you can't make up for. Sorry but I just find it difficult to deal with the bad hand and I thought that GC would help. I came on here to see how things could improve but then I found out that it's all about my fundamentals. I'm sorry for my negativity.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:09 am

Chase-

Now just to quickly answer you:

- I wasn't even aware of the existence of Girls Chase 9 to 10 months before. The newsletter piece I mentioned was from like maybe 5 to 6 to 7 months ago.

- If you are not sure what Mark and Roosh are up to in their newsletters and you are curious about their marketing (as someone successful in their niche, if you can call that) or marketing personal development or dating advice in general and you have that little free time (their newsletters are short), then hell, maybe you subscribe to them. From a secondary email address, or even from your real address.

- The unskippable videos are also unpausable (if that's a word). And you have no way of seeing their length. So even if you want to keep them unskippable, these two may ease people's annoyance.

Chase wrote:Just like I wish there was a way I could see a beautiful girl, approach her, and say "Hey. Best dick of your life, right here. Take your clothes off" and get that working.

My main concern here isn't necessary the length, but that females, not that they don't like sex, they just don't think and talk this way. Men do.

But most importantly, let me try to get closer to what I wanted to get to with this thread at all!

Different levels of products in a personal development business as I see them

1 - A free introductory product that can be like a 100-page ebook to a 2-hour video seminar. Roughly, it doesn't exactly have to be 100 pages or 2 hours, but you get the idea. This should covers 80% of your information. Why 80%? Because of the Pareto principle. Reasonable? Why free? I don't want to sound like the freeloader here, you can certainly argue about the price but free is usually the price point I see this product category sold for.

Heck, Girls Chase entire article library is free (almost), but it's an overwhelming catalog of information, reading all Girls Chase articles goes against the Pareto Principle to me. Let me quote myself from here:

Space wrote:

So my idea with this topic, my first ever here, was that some of you, at least one of you actually go and watch this video. None of you reported you did. I realize it would take about 25 minutes of your time, even though I recommended you are free to watch it in the background (this is how I watch quite a few YouTube videos), it's not so heavy listening. Okay, here's the short version: just watch the segment between 16:30 to 20:10. I think the speaker is onto something with this and for me it's heavily related to how I feel about Girls Chase material. Anyone, just from 16:30 to 20:10?

Who knows? Maybe sometime we can get to the very first topic I came to this forum with? :)

A few examples of what I've found to be cool, free and useful introductory products by their respective authors or producers:

If you sign up for Roosh's newsletter (on rooshv.com), he gives you a 10-email mini course which covers most of Roosh's dating advice as far as I understand. I didn't read his full books, that would be crazy. But heck, his mini email course was very helpful to me. Roosh's mini course is actually shorten than 100 pages in a book or 2 hours in a presentation, but he is just that simple.

Mark Manson has some four, each 25-page or so ebooks to download on his site. That's 100 pages.

The Natural Lifestyles guys have a free 2-hour or so presentation when you sign up to their newsletter covering mostly approaching and mindsets, which, as I understand is their main thing. They've just released an extra hour of video which nicely builds on their free 2-hour intro. This all beside their 21 Convention speeches on YouTube, which of course is 3rd party stuff.

I hope you consider all three to these as fair use examples for the topic How would you improve Girls Chase? What does Girls Chase offer in this category? Well. It's a little bit confusing!

2 - A full book (couple of hundreds of pages) sold as a normal book and ebook on Amazon (for normal book and ebook prices, that is, $10-$15 seems fair) and major platforms or a 5-10 hour or so online course which covers 99% of your information. Or both. $50-$100 seems fair to an info product like this. This is One Date for Girls Chase or this could be the How to Make Girls Chase book if and when it is sold as a normal book or ebook on normal channels. Maybe it needs an update, too as it's old? I don't know. Chase mentioned writing some new books to be published on Amazon, but I have no more information.

The market has changed with books and ebooks. What you could sell as a PDF only ebook on your website for something like $50 like 8 years ago now sells for normal book prices where normal books are sold. At least this is how I see this market. On the flip side for the cheaper selling price your book can read a much wider audience, it can go viral via reviews on major sites like Amazon so overall it should be a win.

3 - Which brings us to the upsell. This is you can go crazy with higher ticket offerings like personalized online and live in-person coaching as you see appropriate. For example.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Lover » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:56 am

strictlyincreasing wrote:It would be great if what your post is expressing is true. But these things don't work for every guy. My muscles, dress sense, posture etc. have not helped me one bit. I've had so many bad experiences and I know that it is all down to my poor fundamentals. The most important fundamentals are the ones that you're born with. Why are the best PUAs/seducers in the world tall or white or have a full head of hair at age 30+? These are fundamentals that you can't work on and that you can't make up for. Sorry but I just find it difficult to deal with the bad hand and I thought that GC would help. I came on here to see how things could improve but then I found out that it's all about my fundamentals. I'm sorry for my negativity.


Okay, so you made effort to improve muscle, clothing and posture. And you found out it helped you not one bit. And now you blame the looks you were born with.

Why are you not looking at the way you approach girls?

why are you not looking at the way you date girls?

Why are you not looking at the emotions you spark in girls?

Why are you not looking at the way you touch girls?

Trust me. If you were a tall, white guy with his head full of hair, you would blame your lack of money or a big dick or girls being too much into minorities for your lack of success with girls. It doesn't matter if you are or are not the ideal you think you have to be - you will just find something else to blame. Because deep inside, what most of us realize in this phase of our lives, is that it is ourselves that are the issue. And before you get any ideas, I'm not talking about the looks we are born with. I'm talking about the way we see the world, the way we make sense of it, and the way we act in it. You make sense of not getting girls by not being the white, tall super seducer. And while there could be a little truth in that with few girls, it won't solve the thing that hinders you the most: the way you think about the whole thing.

I think you should keep working on sleeping with girls through lover game to overcome this flawed ideal of yours. In time, you will stop reproducing the idea that tall and/or white guys and/or guys with full hair on their head past 30 are the only true seducers. Actually, just forget about the idea that a super seducer exists. Chase wrote in an article that he could go out one day when looking for a cute girl. And for every 20 girl he approached, he might get one number (or sleep with one, don't remember which one). Is that a super seducer to you? Chase increases his odds because he approaches more girls.

For a Middle Eastern guy in a Scandinavian country, I'm actually impressed I managed to sleep with girls between 18-23 years, all white except for one Afghani girl (and DAMN, was she sexy!). I'm 25, my hair lines are receding, my hair has been balding since 20, and CURRENTLY my facial hair is also suffering from 4 bald spots, and my neck from 2 - and YET, I haven't felt more sexier in my life than now :D You would think that young girls only care about looks, but it couldn't be further from the truth. The magic tool in my seduction arsenal (as told by the girls I have been most affectionate with) is how passionate I am, and that I have a twinkle in my eye when I talk. And when I sleep with them, they are surprised I can be sooo naughty. NOTHING about the looks.

Heck, even the last time I was with a FWB, she told me how she gets nervous and clumsy around guys she finds hot, but she NEVER sleeps with them. Those hot guys are just an eye snack for her, but if they are not behaving sexy, she won't sleep with them. End of story.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:15 pm

Comparing Chase's timeline to how I could learn anything, here are my revised suggestions:

The most odd Girls Chase product for me is the monthly subscription of weekly god knows how many articles that reminds you all the tights you don't know about pickup. Let me quote myself from here:

Space wrote:

So my idea with this topic, my first ever here, was that some of you, at least one of you actually go and watch this video. None of you reported you did. I realize it would take about 25 minutes of your time, even though I recommended you are free to watch it in the background (this is how I watch quite a few YouTube videos), it's not so heavy listening. Okay, here's the short version: just watch the segment between 16:30 to 20:10. I think the speaker is onto something with this and for me it's heavily related to how I feel about Girls Chase material. Anyone, just from 16:30 to 20:10?


I wonder how profitable the monthly article subscription package is. Anyone does the Tactic Tuesdays? Regardless of where you are in your life and game, you get a weekly reminder of what you don't know and you should do this week. Maybe it's just me, but I like studying materials that do not remind me how much I don't know, but rather reinforces me that I already know something substantial and I probably shouldn't care about every little detail. The Pareto principle.

Instead of the subscription option to an endless supply of articles reminding you what you don't know, I suggest two products to replace them:

- As in Chase's roadmap I don't see a replacement to the 7-day mini course, which, again is a just a collection of PDFs that link to an unlimited supply of articled of which you can put together your 500-page ebook, made it more difficult by the articles not having time stamps on them, how about making just one free 100-page ebook (or 2-hour video presentation) with no links, but containing solid "Start Here" information? Similarly to what many RSD guys have on YouTube. Manifesto of this RSD guy, Manifesto of that RSD guy... The 100-page begineer ebook (or 2-hour presentation) is not only helpful for newbies, but as a quick overview after you have studied the more advanced stuff as well. People interested in pickup can learn about a lot of interesting guys through guest appearances on various podcasts and friendly, related YouTube channels open to such partnerships, and the 21 Convention conferences. Strangely, the latest podcast from Chase on YouTube is 4 year old and the sound quality is bad I wasn't able to understand it, as English isn't my first language.

- As I also don't see any comprehensive book in Chase's roadmap similar in scope to Roosh's main book or Mark Manson's Models (last updated in 2016), Chase only plans to release the advanced ebooks on Amazon, my suggestion is that it makes much more sense to more people that instead of offering the monthly subscription of articles of everything you don't know, you can put together a 4-500 page book of your most relevant articles (the Pareto principle, again) and release it as a normal book on Amazon. That would go viral and bring in the most reviews, network effects, and upselling. Strangely, that book is missing from your roadmap and you only plan to release advanced this, advanced that books, like a whole book dedicated to texting only.

Finally, three and a half practical considerations:

- Maybe PDF was a good idea in the early 2010s, but most people can read PDFs only on their laptop computers (if they have one). Internet-savvy marketers like Mark Manson and Roosh have been releasing their ebooks in EPUB and MOBI formats for years. So you can be more immersed in the learning material on your favorite mobile device. To add insult to injury Girls Chase PDFs are heavily formatted, not just basic text documents, which you may be more easily convert to anything more readable on today's mobile devices.

- Downloadable videos to your mobile device. For example, go to becomingthenatural.com, right click on the main video from your computer, you can Save as... it to your computer, then move it to your mobile. This is how I've seen Max's videos, which I've found insightful. I see no reason you shouldn't release videos in such a mobile friendly way these days. Speaking of RSD Max, I like how he emphasizes that you should go through his full material regardless of skill level, unlike the Girls Chase Quiz, which assumes you already know this or that, so feel free to skip learning it. But your Quiz is being phased out, so perhaps Max is right on the issue of how to learn something new.

- YouTube is an important new media. I see Hector is active on your YouTube channel, but:
* He is not the main guy behind Girls Chase (- yet?)
* He is just doing whatever comes to his mind, which is fine, but I don't see his material as exactly aimed at, or being the most useful for beginners. Maybe beginners should start elsewhere for more comprehensive stuff, building on consecutive blocks

(The most important profit center for most RSD-related guys and and The Natural Lifestyles guys as I see are live events, which are high ticket items. I don't know how you want to go big omitting this most important profit center from your marketing mix.)

I hope my points were understandable. If not, ask me to clarify them!
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:00 am

Chase suggested he plans to increase the forum's user base. A moderate, 10-fold increase hasn't seem to happen yet, so it's me again who have to give voice to the issues I notice.

About the articles on Girls Chase.

About that vast amount of articles linking into each other. I've reasoned before that to teach something effectively, you better follow Pareto's principle. I've written about in the above posts. Such as most people need some cool, beginner friendly stuff (which Chase says is not even in the pipeline; then less people want to read the book or take the course, and even less want to go advanced.

Compared to Mark Mason's or Roosh's sites, the number of posts on Girls Chase clearly look more numerous. For those who claim Mark isn't a dating coach any more, he didn't delete any of his older posts. But if you go to Roosh's or or Mark's blogs, you can more or less find one, definitive article concerning one topic. Tip to Girls Chase team: It's a better idea to have one, definitive article which you can add to, fine tune, and improve upon time than having a bunch of contradicting opinions all over the place. Chase wrote that his stated intention is to have a bunch of different guys from different backgrounds and different perspectives to write to the site... But I think there is a right and a wrong way to do this.

First, does the site really need so many articles? I mean they are much more numerous than those on Roosh's or Mark's site, but I find them less definitive. All articles link to other articles which link to other articles. Sure, Mark's and Roosh's articles link to each other as well, but to a much lesser extent. You can easily find their few, core articles on a given topic then you are set. But on Girls Chase? Let's say one is searching for an article on kissing. First page of Google hits:

  • How to Kiss a Girl Like No One's Ever Kissed Her Before
  • How to Kiss Her
  • How to Be a Good Kisser: 5 Steps to Confident Kissing
  • Can't-Miss Tips for Getting the First Kiss with a Girl
  • Manhandle Kisses
  • 3 Legendary Movie Manhandle Kisses to Model Your Kisses After
  • How to Kiss Girls Back at Your Place
  • Tactics Tuesdays: Kisses for Good Behavior

I have no idea if you write these to be relevant to Google or for actual human beings to read. With no publication dates, no skill levels indicated, nor an order like you should read this first (and it covers most, Pareto), then if you are more interested you can read that one, too. Ideally you should have one, 'master' article on a basic topic, which, according to Pareto should be good enough for most readers and purposes. OK, I know you are working on sorting out your articles. I know. I hope it works out well.

I may be totally wrong about this, so please correct me! I know you have to write new and original content to stay relevant on Google. Even though less and less people use the search engines and more and more find new sites from social media - I don't know about Girls Chase's case. But I wonder how many of your patrons keep up with your new content you are churning out regularly (with no dates on the posts), regardless of the reader's respective skill level. How many of your readers might be doing Tactic Tuesdays - regardless of their skill level? I haven't seen topics on the forum about it at all, and this forum is where your people are.

radeng suggested that I should read all posts from 2008 from 2013, in a chronological order. That would take care of the issue that every link I encounter in an article links to an article that I've already read. But you have so much content out there I wonder if I were to make a book out of your posts to read, would it be the best to read your old book with your expertise up to 2013 or your newer edition with your latest ideas? I mean you have already published a book length of ideas from 2013 to this day. And why should I make an ebook out of your articles for myself (a tedious task) if you can just gather your best articles and publish it as a normal book (on Amazon) so it could catch up? The obvious marketing idea you don't act upon. Sure it would be better for your bottom line than your article subscription service. I wonder for whoever sane person is that subscription for? You get endless articles (with no dates) to confuse you about all the things you don't know. A book collecting your best ideas according to the Pareto principle about the things you should know would make much more sense.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby NiceGuy110 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:30 pm

Don't know if anyone said this, but when you click on a link if it opened up in a new tab that would be nice.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby jakesykes949 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:17 pm

I'd say more videos. Visual content is key nowadays, especially for engagement.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Space wrote:- YouTube is an important new media. I see Hector is active on your YouTube channel, but:
* He is not the main guy behind Girls Chase (- yet?)
* He is just doing whatever comes to his mind, which is fine, but I don't see his material as exactly aimed at, or being the most useful for beginners. Maybe beginners should start elsewhere for more comprehensive stuff, building on consecutive blocks

Not many views on these Hector Q&As! Here's my tip how to make them much more useful with very little effort. Why not add a time stamp in the description below the videos that question ABC is answered at this particular time, question XYZ is answered at that time in the video? So viewers who have a limited time (I guess, when coming to long-winded, open ended Q&A sessions, most viewers are in that category) can selectively watch segments most relevant to their life situation - and skill level. Sounds like the obvious thing to do.

You can probably get the most views by a Manifesto-style video which is popular with RSD guys and I mentioned earlier:

Hi, I'm Hector and you are a noob. But don't worry! I show you everything you need to know about getting girls/getting better with girls in the following 120 minutes. Well, I obviously can't show you everything in 120 minutes, that's just physically impossible. But I sincerely try my best to make the following 120 minutes as informative, jam-packed, and actionable to you as I can.


This should generate a magnitude or two more views.
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Humanoutofelement » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:26 am

Mostly agree with space about the articles on here. I think that having links to a lot of information is good and should be an option for those so inclined to take the time to look at and ingest it. I think I am the exception to your target audience though. I have a lot of free time atm and I've wanted to improve my skills with women for a long time. Most guys out there probably have more experience, less time, and less interest in investing a lot of time reading articles. I also agree that there probably doesn't need to be more than 5 articles on any specific subject; it just adds confusion and the reader isn't sure which article(s) to read, and also maybe comes off as less credible since the information isn't condensed.

I'm also not a fan of the paywall. Yes, the articles are very good and there are ways around the paywall, but in my opinion having a ton of articles and limiting the number of articles they can read per month is not exactly a way to endear yourself with new potential customers.

With all that being said, I'm glad this site exists, gives me hope for the future and makes improving a lot easier.
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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby Space » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:36 am

jakesykes949 wrote:I'd say more videos. Visual content is key nowadays, especially for engagement.

Girls Chase team, speaking of video content, this is what you are up against with your endlessly interlinking article scheme without time stamps. I know you are planning to improve the layout of your written content. And I can see you getting there - maybe in a five year's time frame. Meanwhile your competition...

Space wrote:You can probably get the most views by a Manifesto-style video which is popular with RSD guys and I mentioned earlier:

Hi, I'm Hector and you are a noob. But don't worry! I show you everything you need to know about getting girls/getting better with girls in the following 120 minutes. Well, I obviously can't show you everything in 120 minutes, that's just physically impossible. But I sincerely try my best to make the following 120 minutes as informative, jam-packed, and actionable to you as I can.


This should generate a magnitude or two more views.

Meanwhile if I write 'girls chase' into a YouTube search in a new, incognito window I still get Brent Smith's presentation You Never Have to Chase Women Again with 1.5M views as the relevant result. So clearly if you want to get back your brand name on YouTube you can only do it by doing a more compelling presentation on the same topic. Viewed, shared, and commented on by more people. That's the beauty of YouTube as a platform. It's an even playing field.

So Chase, when you say thing like
We wanted to get into the physical products space.

Mainly because of how hard it is advertising dating advice...

You speak only for yourself, right? I mean I'm puzzled that you do not (at least seem to) look into how others make good profits in your field.

You mentioned how coaches outgrow teaching pickup. So for another example here is this very young coach, let's say 10 years junior to you, Tim Ray, mentally he wants to quit coaching pickup and wants his income to come from other sources, but he still makes almost 6 figures with it. Like 95k.

How To Make More Money and Get More Girls Explained: Tim's Income REVEALED IN DETAIL
Learning seduction, doing seduction, and also contributing to the forum, all three at the same time? Nah, that's too much. Forum bankruptcy. I'd still appreciate if you could chime in on my two most burning questions here and here.
Space

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Re: How would you improve Girls Chase?

Postby sumwunimetonce » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:16 am

I think it would be great to have more articles that are not solely about picking up girls

I have discovered the Art of Manliness https://www.artofmanliness.com/ and it the first time in years I have found a resource dedicated to giving men positive advice.

There are lots of really positive things that you get from game, for me a massive one is expanding your social circle and understanding female psychology etc. I think if there was section in GC (or a sister site) with articles on topics like this and others (keeping your girl happy for example) it could keep people using the site after they find the right person.

Not sure how practical this is but I think it would be great.
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