ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?



Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:42 pm

Alcman wrote:Hey man, just some perspective: in 2018 I shagged seven girls, my first ever. I roughly estimate that for every twenty phone numbers I got, one lead to a date, and that maybe one in five dates lead to sex. This means that only one out of a hundred successful approaches lead to anything, and that's not counting all the failed half-approaches where she didn't even hook or I ejected too fast, which are of course the lion's share. Have you done more than seven hundred good approaches (where she hooked) since you started your journal? If not, get out there. And remember that day game is way more crucial than night game, because that's where you stand out from most men in the world. Nobody said this is an easy pastime: just like growing your muscles at the gym, there's pain, pain, pain (then gain, gain, gain).

A.

Hey Alcman. I haven't been counting approaches. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd guess 20 approaches per weekend. There's probably a lot more that I'm not consciously thinking of as approaches. Even if we say 40 per week, that would be about 320 since starting this journal. To be clear in case it's part of your point, the start of this journal was not the start of my journey. I started going out in 2018 and was only doing online in 2017.

In any event, yes you're right I have to keep going out there. It's just getting less fun and motivating over time without any sign of tangible improvement. It feels like one step forward, two steps back - mainly because when that step back happens and I get depressed it just cripples me for a long period of time.

Trying to incorporate day game. I'll go into more detail in the next reply.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:33 pm

Científico wrote:Hey Elderprice - have you tried diversifying where you go out to meet women? Seems like you are doing a lot of nighttime dancing game, but I dont see much else mentioned recently in your journal. Go to different meetups in evening, and do daygame as well. Just keep getting yourself out there. This is a constant numbers game, and it's a process that one ultimately comes to enjoy.

Yeah it's been mainly partner dancing since that's actually something that's fun for me. Can't stand nightclubs. They've never been fun. The opposite really.

Let me clarify what partner dancing on the weekends entails. These are bars that go into club mode, but instead of super loud club music, they play much less noisy dance music. There is a dance floor that doesn't host a mob that jiggles in place for 4 hours, but couples that go on and off the dance floor in between each song. Because these are in huge bars, there's a lot of people there not looking to dance or who don't dance. So, the new girls that I come across at these establishments are either girls that know how to dance and haven't been out dancing in a while, or they are out with their friends who rarely go to such an establishment. I don't know if I'd call it "dancing game." It's not like my approach is non-verbal seduction using sensual dancing, then pull. My approach has been to ask anyone to dance who looks cute, use that as an icebreaker, then chat with them after dancing. That's when they say yes to a date and give me their numbers. So I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but in my mind I think of it as cold approach, with using "would you like to dance?" as a little bit of a cheat.

Yes I've tried meetups. I'll still go to the big events at cool venues where lots of people actually show up. But those are rare. One every month or two. Those are always cool because since most of the people there are awkward shy people, I always stand out. Unfortunately, as has been observed before, the girls that go to these events are not top quality. I also like these events because it's very easy to move away from the group and open the people at that venue NOT there for the meetup. As for more regular meetups, I don't do them anymore because there's just not enough new people. No point in meeting a meetup of 20 people (so 5-7 girls) at some venue for an hour or two when that hour or two can be better spent elsewhere - somewhere with far more new girls to approach.

I'm trying to incorporate more day game. It's just been hard for me. I hate the idea of walking around some area or store aimlessly and without purpose for a couple hours and honestly it's not very fun. And the best day game spots are like a 20-30 minute drive away so that's also discouraging. Now don't get me wrong. I know I need to do it and I want to do it. The last couple of weekends I went to the mall because I had to go shopping and I had specific things to buy. Now that that's done, at the moment I have no reason to go to the mall. I just need reasons to leave the house that don't solely involve failing with girls another 500 times - not because I'm not motivated to get better with girls, but because I just want something fun and positive to do!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Alcman » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:25 am

That’s a very clarifying post! It’s obvious you haven’t yet started the hard part of the journey; you’ll never leave ”beginner seducer’s hell” if you don’t enter it fully! Firstly, you’re way to focused on ”fun”. Read the article ”Going out to meet girls even when you don’t want to”. Think about it this way: if it’s fun, you’re not busting your comfort zones, and hence you’re not doing it right!

There’s a reason this site is mainly about two types of approaches: street and night club. It’s because if you master these, nothing else will be challenging. You seem to have made mostly very indirect cold approaches. To make progress you need to make mostly direct ones: street stops, e.g. ”hi! I just LOVE your hairstyle!”, then after a few lines of banter ask if she’s single and if yes ask her to grab a coffee on the spot. When you get tired, just sit and relax with a coffee and wait for a cute girl to walk by. You don’t live in a big city, do you? Consider moving somewhere where you don’t need a car to get around - one doesn’t bump into girls while driving (hopefully!), but I do most of my approaches on the street and in the subway on my way through town (I live in Stockholm). Only doing mall game is not good - the best is just meeting women when they’re on their way to or from school and work.

I get depressed too and I cry. But when this happens I go to the gym even more, and deep talk with friends, and then it’s over after a few days.

A.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:21 am

Alcman wrote:That’s a very clarifying post! It’s obvious you haven’t yet started the hard part of the journey; you’ll never leave ”beginner seducer’s hell” if you don’t enter it fully! Firstly, you’re way to focused on ”fun”. Read the article ”Going out to meet girls even when you don’t want to”. Think about it this way: if it’s fun, you’re not busting your comfort zones, and hence you’re not doing it right!

There’s a reason this site is mainly about two types of approaches: street and night club. It’s because if you master these, nothing else will be challenging. You seem to have made mostly very indirect cold approaches. To make progress you need to make mostly direct ones: street stops, e.g. ”hi! I just LOVE your hairstyle!”, then after a few lines of banter ask if she’s single and if yes ask her to grab a coffee on the spot. When you get tired, just sit and relax with a coffee and wait for a cute girl to walk by. You don’t live in a big city, do you? Consider moving somewhere where you don’t need a car to get around - one doesn’t bump into girls while driving (hopefully!), but I do most of my approaches on the street and in the subway on my way through town (I live in Stockholm). Only doing mall game is not good - the best is just meeting women when they’re on their way to or from school and work.

I get depressed too and I cry. But when this happens I go to the gym even more, and deep talk with friends, and then it’s over after a few days.

A.

Sorry to hear you get depressed too. I wouldn't have thought that reading your journal entries!

Regarding fun, I just mean that I need to be doing something enjoyable to help keep my mood and personality at a high enough level to have useful approaches. If I'm not having fun then I have the personality of a potato. Very boring in demeanor. I'm not saying that I have to be dancing in order to approach girls. Just that if my mood and personality isn't at a good point, then it's not a comfort zone thing. I'm just going to be in the 100% wrong state to meet girls.

Agreed 100% about needed to do more direct approaches. I've sort of been thinking of this lately with my recent posts talking about how I want to try to compliment more. I need to get these compliments coming out of my mouth without having to think about it, then I'll be in the best shape to direct approach.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:34 am

3/7/19 Feeling better

Feeling much better today. Yesterday I texted some old friends and relatives so that was a positive experience to reconnect. Also I unexpectedly heard from one girl I thought was a goner so that was good. Now that I'm in a better state, I can analyze my recent results and come up with an immediate action plan. And that plan - er, it's more so a list of things to focus on - is:

1. Continue thinking about Complimenting and using the Connery look. Trying out direct opening goes in this category too.

2. MOVE FASTER. I'm definitely in a habit where I go for numbers and hope they turn into dates days later. If it looks like I have a hook, I need to have a plan to move things along right then and there. Move her to grab a drink/coffee. Move her maybe to one more venue depending on the situation. Get to her place.

3. Stick with a target as long as possible. In an effort to be as anti-needy as possible, I developed a habit where, for instance if I meet a girl out dancing, I'll dance with her, chat, get a number, then move on to a next girl. This was always under the idea that a needy guy would hang around and chat to this one girl. A guy that wasn't needy would move on if he wasn't getting high attraction. I think I'm way too far on the "non-needy" side. So if a girl particularly catches my eye, I want to try hanging around longer and keeping the interaction going as long as possible. If I can't get compliance such as getting her to move for a drink, THEN I can give myself permission to move on.

4. Continue trying day game settings.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:44 am

Good to see you feeling better man. A lot of people go through tough times with women and socializing. The good thing is you'll get over it soon and the more you go through it, the easier it gets to not care.

I used to bug out on nights where I didn't get any good feedback, I would legit go crazy in a rage.

But after a while you get used to it, take a break and start again.

And dude for the longest time I thought your name was ElderPrince. You think that's a cool name?
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:Good to see you feeling better man. A lot of people go through tough times with women and socializing. The good thing is you'll get over it soon and the more you go through it, the easier it gets to not care.

I used to bug out on nights where I didn't get any good feedback, I would legit go crazy in a rage.

But after a while you get used to it, take a break and start again.

And dude for the longest time I thought your name was ElderPrince. You think that's a cool name?

Yep you're completely right man. Hey, I recovered in only a day or two so I guess that's good progress! Haha.

Do I think ElderPrice or ElderPrince is a good name? ElderPrice is actually a reference to something. I was curious if anyone would get it. I think it's a funny reference to use here haha.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:36 am

I meant did you think elderprince was a good name. What's your name mean ?




ElderPrice wrote:
Sub-Zero wrote:Good to see you feeling better man. A lot of people go through tough times with women and socializing. The good thing is you'll get over it soon and the more you go through it, the easier it gets to not care.

I used to bug out on nights where I didn't get any good feedback, I would legit go crazy in a rage.

But after a while you get used to it, take a break and start again.

And dude for the longest time I thought your name was ElderPrince. You think that's a cool name?

Yep you're completely right man. Hey, I recovered in only a day or two so I guess that's good progress! Haha.

Do I think ElderPrice or ElderPrince is a good name? ElderPrice is actually a reference to something. I was curious if anyone would get it. I think it's a funny reference to use here haha.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:31 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:I meant did you think elderprince was a good name. What's your name mean ?




ElderPrice wrote:
Sub-Zero wrote:Good to see you feeling better man. A lot of people go through tough times with women and socializing. The good thing is you'll get over it soon and the more you go through it, the easier it gets to not care.

I used to bug out on nights where I didn't get any good feedback, I would legit go crazy in a rage.

But after a while you get used to it, take a break and start again.

And dude for the longest time I thought your name was ElderPrince. You think that's a cool name?

Yep you're completely right man. Hey, I recovered in only a day or two so I guess that's good progress! Haha.

Do I think ElderPrice or ElderPrince is a good name? ElderPrice is actually a reference to something. I was curious if anyone would get it. I think it's a funny reference to use here haha.

ElderPrince? Probably not haha. Elder Price: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJgmp2Tc2s
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:35 am

3/10/19 Just... Nothing.

Dancing was actually quite fun this weekend. A LOT of friends turned out, especially last night. Last night was actually the most fun I've ever had at that particular venue.

Ironically, when it came to meeting girls, it was a very poor turnout, almost non-existent. There just weren't ANY girls at these venues either night that excited me and that I earnestly approached. Okay there was one. But you know what I mean. Practically zero. Just a ton of people I had seen previously, and people I didn't find attractive.

The one girl was an interesting case. It was the first time in recent memory that I remembered being so enchanted I could barely get words out. It was Friday and I walked into Venue 2 very late. A few minutes before closing. It was mostly thinned out inside. But across the dance floor I saw the cutest girl I've ever seen in this establishment. She was there with one female friend. Without hesitation I walked directly, straight to her, then with a cool smile on my face, extended a hand and said "I must have a dance with you." She happily agreed. Then I immediately attempt a direct approach/opener. I tell her "I had to ask you to dance because honestly I think you're the cutest girl I've ever seen here." She was flattered. We danced and then I tried chatting after. This was when I was struggling to converse, but I got some basic questions out. She seemed fairly excited in her own right. Since it was 2am, I was going through my head as quickly as possible trying to figure out where to go from here. We both lived 30 minutes away. She said she and her friend had already called an uber and it was on the way. Coming up with nothing, she said how about I give her my number and she'll text me. I did, we parted ways, and I haven't heard from her since. I might post this as a Field Report for feedback. Was I just SOL here? What could I do? Pull to my car? While somewhat aroused, she didn't seem aroused enough to be willing to bail on her friend. And she definitely wasn't flirting hard with a look in her eyes just begging to go home with me. The first thought that popped into my head was "Fuck, I wish I had my own place. Then I could just invite her over for a nightcap" and see what happens.

Today I tried day gaming at the most chick-friendly Whole Foods in town. I didn't need to buy shit so I just walked up and down all the aisles a couple of times, as slow as possible. I put a couple items in my basket so I didn't feel like I was completely wasting my time. But this wasn't a good experience. During the whole hour I was there, there were maybe 7 or so girls there. Most of them were clearly with their boyfriend. There were only 3 there by themselves. Two of them walked past me without making eye contact. And those were the types of eye contact where you can tell they are actively focusing on ignoring you. The last one I indirectly opened, but before the opening and definitely after I could tell she wasn't interested at all. The conclusion I drew from this experience was that next time I should try and find some festivals happening in town. That way there'd be more girls to approach there haha.

I was fine all weekend then this evening I just became depressed again. Nothing in particular triggered it either. I was a little bummed that nothing came out of going to the grocery store.. but it was a trip to the grocery store. My expectations were very low/non existent. I just started thinking negative thoughts and then they snowballed into feeling depressed. After this bout, I tried to figure out what was causing me to feel so horrible. I know better when it comes to outcome dependency. And failed interactions don't bother me. I move on to the next. It must be something more high level. Then I realized what it was. It's just what I talk about in Post #1.

What kills me and keeps me depressed is that I absolutely hate being a virgin/loser with women at this age. I hate it. No matter what I've done (so far), I just can't shake this feeling. I can't because I honestly agree with it 100%. If you go this long in life without finding ONE person on the whole planet to have sex with, you are a loser. Like, it's HARD to be this pathetic. Normal people can't do it. They get laid at some point. But not me. Somehow I found a way to not even got lucky occasionally. And I hate it. So when I get depressed, it's not because an outing went bad. It's because the bad outing represents a guarantee that for at least another few days, a week, or whatever relevant amount of time, I am guaranteed to stay a loser. I become an even older virgin. Great outings clear my depression because they give me hope... Hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that the bad times are ending soon. Uneventful outings or extinguished prospects ultimately bring back the depression because they extinguish hope. They kick me right back to square one. And it just feels like constant stress the entire time. The stress of living this terribly unhappy, unfulfilled life. It feels like I never get a reprieve from the stress. Like, it feels like I never get a weekend. Just constant work of trying to improve myself and my life, with zero rewards to clear out the stress.

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Alcman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:19 am

If I were you, I would consider paying for sex to get out of the stigma and gain some momentum and confidence. Check out the articles here on GC regarding the pros and cons of prostitution. If you're worried about legality, anonymity or price, just take a trip abroad to some place where it's cheap and legal. Fuck a few girls until you feel like a man.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Científico » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:13 am

A few comments:

Coming up with nothing, she said how about I give her my number and she'll text me.


In my experience, this will hardly ever work. The basic biological rule is that men initiate, women respond. I've tried leaving my business card recently with my cell phone number to a few cashiers, hotel receptionists - women who I felt the direct number pull would be awkward with coworkers/the boss being around. They never get in contact. It has a small chance of working if her interest is VERY high, but what is much better, especially at your stage, is to keep leaving the ball in your court.

If she said this as a way to decline a number request, that is one thing - it was then likely a shit test/polite decline. If she said this as a way to fill a vacuum in conversation (as is suggested by your post), you need to continue developing your social skills/dynamics and communicating with purpose when interacting with women.

Today I tried day gaming at the most chick-friendly Whole Foods in town. I didn't need to buy shit so I just walked up and down all the aisles a couple of times, as slow as possible. I put a couple items in my basket so I didn't feel like I was completely wasting my time. But this wasn't a good experience. During the whole hour I was there, there were maybe 7 or so girls there. Most of them were clearly with their boyfriend. There were only 3 there by themselves. Two of them walked past me without making eye contact. And those were the types of eye contact where you can tell they are actively focusing on ignoring you. The last one I indirectly opened, but before the opening and definitely after I could tell she wasn't interested at all. The conclusion I drew from this experience was that next time I should try and find some festivals happening in town. That way there'd be more girls to approach there haha.


How many sets did you do total? Your post suggests you only did one. A proper daygame outing has at least 5, and optimally 10 approaches. You can certainly do 10 easily if its a high volume area. Sometimes you will have bad days and good days. If you look at my last post, the day game mission I did on Saturday handed me a cute bright-eyed mexicana to go on an instant date with, but she was approach #9 - I slogged through 8 other approaches before her, all of which were either total blowouts or women who were intrigued and engaged for a bit but didn't hook.

Also, dont make assumptions that they are avoiding eye contact with you. For all you know they are in their own heads thinking about god knows what. Just open - sometimes your instinct is completely wrong and she is happy you did.

Where are you located? I'm assuming somewhere in the USA. Is it a big city? I think its really important to explore your city a bit and find the places that work for you, with high volume and hot girls. Whole Foods may not be optimal.

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...


Yeah, this is super important. Make this a top priority and get this handled - it's possible to pull back to a girls place (I pulled it off once recently), but much better to have your place where you control everything.

If I were you, I would consider paying for sex to get out of the stigma and gain some momentum and confidence. Check out the articles here on GC regarding the pros and cons of prostitution. If you're worried about legality, anonymity or price, just take a trip abroad to some place where it's cheap and legal. Fuck a few girls until you feel like a man.


Don't you know how you feel about Alcman's advice, but I would consider it - I think it would be fun for you.

If you are in the US, there is one great country nearby where it is both cheap and legal - Mexico. Just take a budget flight over to San Diego, take the blue line trolley down to the border, once across in Tijuana tell the cab driver you want to go to "Zona Norte" or one of the bars there (e.g. Hong Kong). You will find lots of hot girls from all over Mexico that will fuck you for $80-$100 a pop.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby fog » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 pm

love these convos between elderprice & cientifico
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:42 am

Coming up with nothing, she said how about I give her my number and she'll text me.


In my experience, this will hardly ever work. The basic biological rule is that men initiate, women respond. I've tried leaving my business card recently with my cell phone number to a few cashiers, hotel receptionists - women who I felt the direct number pull would be awkward with coworkers/the boss being around. They never get in contact. It has a small chance of working if her interest is VERY high, but what is much better, especially at your stage, is to keep leaving the ball in your court.

If she said this as a way to decline a number request, that is one thing - it was then likely a shit test/polite decline. If she said this as a way to fill a vacuum in conversation (as is suggested by your post), you need to continue developing your social skills/dynamics and communicating with purpose when interacting with women.

Oh I know it'll rarely work! LOL What are your thoughts on that situation? How would you have handled it? You meet right at closing time, you both live 30 minutes away, she's with one friend (who may be drunk and need help getting home), and they already called an uber and it's on the way.

Today I tried day gaming at the most chick-friendly Whole Foods in town. I didn't need to buy shit so I just walked up and down all the aisles a couple of times, as slow as possible. I put a couple items in my basket so I didn't feel like I was completely wasting my time. But this wasn't a good experience. During the whole hour I was there, there were maybe 7 or so girls there. Most of them were clearly with their boyfriend. There were only 3 there by themselves. Two of them walked past me without making eye contact. And those were the types of eye contact where you can tell they are actively focusing on ignoring you. The last one I indirectly opened, but before the opening and definitely after I could tell she wasn't interested at all. The conclusion I drew from this experience was that next time I should try and find some festivals happening in town. That way there'd be more girls to approach there haha.


How many sets did you do total? Your post suggests you only did one. A proper daygame outing has at least 5, and optimally 10 approaches. You can certainly do 10 easily if its a high volume area. Sometimes you will have bad days and good days. If you look at my last post, the day game mission I did on Saturday handed me a cute bright-eyed mexicana to go on an instant date with, but she was approach #9 - I slogged through 8 other approaches before her, all of which were either total blowouts or women who were intrigued and engaged for a bit but didn't hook.

Also, dont make assumptions that they are avoiding eye contact with you. For all you know they are in their own heads thinking about god knows what. Just open - sometimes your instinct is completely wrong and she is happy you did.

Where are you located? I'm assuming somewhere in the USA. Is it a big city? I think its really important to explore your city a bit and find the places that work for you, with high volume and hot girls. Whole Foods may not be optimal.

Oh I know it was only one set. The low volume was my point. That location just had very low volume! That's why I mentioned trying something else, like a festival. Need more volume!

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...


Yeah, this is super important. Make this a top priority and get this handled - it's possible to pull back to a girls place (I pulled it off once recently), but much better to have your place where you control everything.

Agreed. In addition, if one has the goal of pulling girls in their early to mid twenties, they aren't very likely to have places of their own. So hoping for that just isn't going to yield results.

If I were you, I would consider paying for sex to get out of the stigma and gain some momentum and confidence. Check out the articles here on GC regarding the pros and cons of prostitution. If you're worried about legality, anonymity or price, just take a trip abroad to some place where it's cheap and legal. Fuck a few girls until you feel like a man.


Don't you know how you feel about Alcman's advice, but I would consider it - I think it would be fun for you.

If you are in the US, there is one great country nearby where it is both cheap and legal - Mexico. Just take a budget flight over to San Diego, take the blue line trolley down to the border, once across in Tijuana tell the cab driver you want to go to "Zona Norte" or one of the bars there (e.g. Hong Kong). You will find lots of hot girls from all over Mexico that will fuck you for $80-$100 a pop.

Nah. I'm not depressed because I'm a virgin per se, I'm depressed because I have yet to find sex the fulfilling way. Does that make sense? I want to find girls that want to have sex with me. Not pay them. If I paid for sex I bet I'd feel WORSE for doing it because it's cementing the idea that 'you have to pay for sex because you can't get it otherwise because you're a piece of shit loser.' Fuck that. I'll feel better by getting good at this. Not going the loser route and paying for sex.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 am

fog wrote:love these convos between elderprice & cientifico

You're the man, fog!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Seppuku » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:28 am

Hey ElderPrice,

I see Cientifico is already giving you some very useful feedback.

But tell me, when we initially started exchanging, you told me you had managed to get close to 40 dates. And now none? So what were you doing then, that you are no longer doing now?

What kills me and keeps me depressed is that I absolutely hate being a virgin/loser with women at this age. I hate it. No matter what I've done (so far), I just can't shake this feeling. I can't because I honestly agree with it 100%. If you go this long in life without finding ONE person on the whole planet to have sex with, you are a loser. Like, it's HARD to be this pathetic. Normal people can't do it. They get laid at some point. But not me. Somehow I found a way to not even got lucky occasionally. And I hate it. So when I get depressed, it's not because an outing went bad. It's because the bad outing represents a guarantee that for at least another few days, a week, or whatever relevant amount of time, I am guaranteed to stay a loser. I become an even older virgin. Great outings clear my depression because they give me hope... Hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that the bad times are ending soon. Uneventful outings or extinguished prospects ultimately bring back the depression because they extinguish hope. They kick me right back to square one. And it just feels like constant stress the entire time. The stress of living this terribly unhappy, unfulfilled life. It feels like I never get a reprieve from the stress. Like, it feels like I never get a weekend. Just constant work of trying to improve myself and my life, with zero rewards to clear out the stress.

I wish I could show you the other side. Once you start getting girls consistently, it starts raining more and more girls.

It is interesting to see. When you don't have girls, it is very hard to get one. When you have plenty of girls, many more keep coming in. It is a fact!

It tells you something about the woman's mind. Girls can feel your degree of sexual confidence, it just flows naturally from the way you behave. So they intuitively know where you stand in terms of sexual experience - I believe they get the picture within the first couple of hours of meeting, and probably even less. And they are sexually turned on by a sexual man. Turned off by a non sexual one. They are extremely sexual creatures by nature, no matter if they pretend otherwise.

That is the only way I can make sense of the fact I mentioned.

So now I am not saying that to make you more depressed. But you need to know the reality you are facing.

This is also why trying it a few times with a professional could be worth it. It would remove part of the insecurity you are facing and would make it easier for you to get real girls, in a second step. I don't like paying for sex myself, but in this case it may be one of the cases where paying would make sense.

But I understand your "I want to owe it to my own skill" argument. Alright then!

Of course there is light at the end of the tunnel. We all were virgins once, and went through that. Just keep a positive outlook, take patience and persist, there is no way you wont get it eventually. Never give up! It is a matter of time.

I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...

Approach this as a learning exercise. It will definitely help you if you start being more sexually aggressive. Just learning to do that is an objective of its own.

If you don't have the logistics for a proper pull yet, well, you should absolutely start to look for one. But in the meantime, I recommend you go for "intermediate" goals (partial escalation). You could try to find a quiet place (maybe a remote parking place, or some outdoor location or whatever) where you can bring her in your car and be alone with her. Have that part already cleared: the place where you will bring her. Whatever isolated place beyond curious eyes. All inside your car. You know best!

Once this is cleared, set yourself an "intermediate" sexual objective such as extracting her boobs and suck her nipples. Or take out your dick and give to her to suck. You decide! Take her on a date, then in your car, then to this remote place, then achieve the stated objective. The first time it will feel very hard, you will have lots of doubts, and will wonder if this guy Seppuku was just kidding you. It will be a leap of faith. And it's true you initially may not succeed. But it will actually work much more often than you suspect. Once you managed to pull it, you will have that epiphany to realize how easy it was. Then your second and third time will actually feel easy.

Also, when you are becoming more confident with your sexual escalation, you will find it easier to get first dates as well! It is a virtuous circle. Just try!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:17 pm

Seppuku wrote:But tell me, when we initially started exchanging, you told me you had managed to get close to 40 dates. And now none? So what were you doing then, that you are no longer doing now?

Seppuku. The legend!
Yes! I have noticed the exact same thing! As far as my game or approach, I don't think I've done anything all that different. The only major difference I can think of is that those previous dates came from online, and then many from salsa nights. Lately, like in the past several months, I've done less salsa and more country. Another difference is the day of the week. The salsa nights were weeknights. Country nights have been Friday and Saturday nights for whatever that's worth. My best guess is that the salsa girls were just a little more interested in dating me than country girls. And if you missed my previous post, everything leading up to that has been the exact same and has been "working." IE a couple weeks ago I got like 5 numbers in one night. But of all the numbers I've collected in the past several months, zero have resulted in dates and that's while following Chase's 'how to text girls' articles.

What kills me and keeps me depressed is that I absolutely hate being a virgin/loser with women at this age. I hate it. No matter what I've done (so far), I just can't shake this feeling. I can't because I honestly agree with it 100%. If you go this long in life without finding ONE person on the whole planet to have sex with, you are a loser. Like, it's HARD to be this pathetic. Normal people can't do it. They get laid at some point. But not me. Somehow I found a way to not even got lucky occasionally. And I hate it. So when I get depressed, it's not because an outing went bad. It's because the bad outing represents a guarantee that for at least another few days, a week, or whatever relevant amount of time, I am guaranteed to stay a loser. I become an even older virgin. Great outings clear my depression because they give me hope... Hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that the bad times are ending soon. Uneventful outings or extinguished prospects ultimately bring back the depression because they extinguish hope. They kick me right back to square one. And it just feels like constant stress the entire time. The stress of living this terribly unhappy, unfulfilled life. It feels like I never get a reprieve from the stress. Like, it feels like I never get a weekend. Just constant work of trying to improve myself and my life, with zero rewards to clear out the stress.

I wish I could show you the other side. Once you start getting girls consistently, it starts raining more and more girls.

It is interesting to see. When you don't have girls, it is very hard to get one. When you have plenty of girls, many more keep coming in. It is a fact!

It tells you something about the woman's mind. Girls can feel your degree of sexual confidence, it just flows naturally from the way you behave. So they intuitively know where you stand in terms of sexual experience - I believe they get the picture within the first couple of hours of meeting, and probably even less. And they are sexually turned on by a sexual man. Turned off by a non sexual one. They are extremely sexual creatures by nature, no matter if they pretend otherwise.

That is the only way I can make sense of the fact I mentioned.

So now I am not saying that to make you more depressed. But you need to know the reality you are facing.

This is also why trying it a few times with a professional could be worth it. It would remove part of the insecurity you are facing and would make it easier for you to get real girls, in a second step. I don't like paying for sex myself, but in this case it may be one of the cases where paying would make sense.

But I understand your "I want to owe it to my own skill" argument. Alright then!

Of course there is light at the end of the tunnel. We all were virgins once, and went through that. Just keep a positive outlook, take patience and persist, there is no way you wont get it eventually. Never give up! It is a matter of time.

I appreciate it, but it's actually not necessary to show me the other side. I don't need to see it... because I know it's there! When I'm depressed it's hard to believe, but I know it's there. Just from reading this site and the boards, I'm convinced it's there. As a matter of fact, that's why I keep at it and haven't quit. That's why I go back out every weekend.
I'll keep at it. My top goal now is to find a way out of the fuck of my parent's place. I can't tell you how badly I want to experiment with pulling and being more aggressive on the pull. But can't do it here. I ran the numbers on my finances again and it looks like I need a roommate. I just can't afford these insane rents for a 1 bed apartment (that isn't a shithole). So now that means I've got to find a roommate. Great. Another important, massive project. We'll see how this goes...

Approach this as a learning exercise. It will definitely help you if you start being more sexually aggressive. Just learning to do that is an objective of its own.

If you don't have the logistics for a proper pull yet, well, you should absolutely start to look for one. But in the meantime, I recommend you go for "intermediate" goals (partial escalation). You could try to find a quiet place (maybe a remote parking place, or some outdoor location or whatever) where you can bring her in your car and be alone with her. Have that part already cleared: the place where you will bring her. Whatever isolated place beyond curious eyes. All inside your car. You know best!

Once this is cleared, set yourself an "intermediate" sexual objective such as extracting her boobs and suck her nipples. Or take out your dick and give to her to suck. You decide! Take her on a date, then in your car, then to this remote place, then achieve the stated objective. The first time it will feel very hard, you will have lots of doubts, and will wonder if this guy Seppuku was just kidding you. It will be a leap of faith. And it's true you initially may not succeed. But it will actually work much more often than you suspect. Once you managed to pull it, you will have that epiphany to realize how easy it was. Then your second and third time will actually feel easy.

Also, when you are becoming more confident with your sexual escalation, you will find it easier to get first dates as well! It is a virtuous circle. Just try!

Oh yes my friend, I've kept your advice in mind from previous threads regarding this topic! I'm always thinking about pulling and isolating to my car.

I've struggled to try it lately because I'm just not seeing any sign of life from these girls. Just like on my dates that you've read about, even though these girls are agreeing to a date with me and give me their number when asked, they're not showing any signs of real interest. No hair playing, no flirting, no trying to keep my attention, no touching. Nothing like that. And sure enough when I try to arrange a date, 0% have been interested.

As soon as I have a live one, my plan is to move her as quickly as possible. If that involves her getting into my car (if the situation allows for it) then I'll definitely try to escalate.

Thank you again for the feedback!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Seppuku » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:37 pm

ElderPrice wrote:I've struggled to try it lately because I'm just not seeing any sign of life from these girls. Just like on my dates that you've read about, even though these girls are agreeing to a date with me and give me their number when asked, they're not showing any signs of real interest. No hair playing, no flirting, no trying to keep my attention, no touching. Nothing like that. And sure enough when I try to arrange a date, 0% have been interested.

Just some extra feedback. Sometimes they do NOT look like interested, but if you try to escalate you still get a pleasant surprise. Even if you don't see signs, you should try nevertheless. And if you think the girl is lost, so then why not going all the way? If you're not going to see her again, you have nothing to lose, and still plenty to gain at learning to be more physically aggressive.

In any case, just keep trying, and you will get there. It is just a matter of time. Just don't give up!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:28 pm

Seppuku wrote:
ElderPrice wrote:I've struggled to try it lately because I'm just not seeing any sign of life from these girls. Just like on my dates that you've read about, even though these girls are agreeing to a date with me and give me their number when asked, they're not showing any signs of real interest. No hair playing, no flirting, no trying to keep my attention, no touching. Nothing like that. And sure enough when I try to arrange a date, 0% have been interested.

Just some extra feedback. Sometimes they do NOT look like interested, but if you try to escalate you still get a pleasant surprise. Even if you don't see signs, you should try nevertheless. And if you think the girl is lost, so then why not going all the way? If you're not going to see her again, you have nothing to lose, and still plenty to gain at learning to be more physically aggressive.

In any case, just keep trying, and you will get there. It is just a matter of time. Just don't give up!

You're definitely right about giving it a shot and see what happens. Just weird that it's extremely rare to get any normal sign of interest. I'm not exaggerating.. even the girls that agree to dates and give me their numbers, NONE of them show any of those aforementioned signs of interest. Or signs of interest from the "How Girls Show Interest" article:
She says you’d make a great couple, you look good together, anything like that
She says you’re handsome or sexy
She asks you where you live, especially if it comes at an unusual time in the conversation or out of the middle of nowhere
She asks if you live alone or with friends or roommates, and especially if she asks if they are home right now
She focuses more of her attention on you, especially if you’ve been quiet or other people are competing for her attention, but she’s still devoting a lot of attention to you
She does something physically suggestive, like taking your arm and putting it around her or taking your hand and putting it on her, or putting her hand or legs on you
She buys you food or buys you a drink

Or from "Book Excerpts: Signs She Likes You"
She’s physically leaning into you – the closer the better
Her body is facing you
She’s asking you lots of questions
She’s proactively working to qualify herself and build rapport and a connection, including:
She agrees with just about everything you say, very emphatically
She works to relate her experiences to yours and build commonalities
She focuses on ways that the two of you are alike in conversation
She’s touching you
She’s talking about things the two of you can or will do in the future (such as hanging out, going to different places, or even taking vacations)
She uses “we” and “us” when referring to you and her

I've literally never seen these in my interactions with women regardless whether it's initial conversations, asking for a date, getting a number, or actually on a date. You probably don't believe me, but I'm being honest. These are not how girls act when they meet me. Ever. This list is very alien to me. That's why most of my posts in this journal are me wondering "What could I possibly be going wrong?" Because it's not like I'm saying stupid things that bomb my interactions. It's not like I'm texting dumb things. Every single girl I meet just doesn't get anywhere near this excited.

Seppuku, to be honest, I believe you that if I just stay at it I'll get it... But at the same time, I can't help but be very confident that after the countless interactions I've had with women that I see a clear conclusion here: They're just not excited to meet me and interact with me, and that's why none of these girls are converting. It's not that I need some tiny tweek to my approach. It's that I have a major excitement problem. If I can get this excitement issue solved, then the rest of it will improve on its own. What do you think? Have you ever had this issue or worked with anyone with this issue? Thank you again for the help, my friend.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Seppuku » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:03 pm

Seppuku, to be honest, I believe you that if I just stay at it I'll get it... But at the same time, I can't help but be very confident that after the countless interactions I've had with women that I see a clear conclusion here: They're just not excited to meet me and interact with me, and that's why none of these girls are converting. It's not that I need some tiny tweek to my approach. It's that I have a major excitement problem. If I can get this excitement issue solved, then the rest of it will improve on its own. What do you think? Have you ever had this issue or worked with anyone with this issue? Thank you again for the help, my friend.

There must be ONE thing that you are repeatedly doing, which is causing the issue. I wish I was there to see in person because something big like this would be immediately spotted. I am also very confident that you are initially doing something right, or you wouldn't have had 40 dates... But when you two end up in person, this big thing you are doing is killing it.

And yeah from our past discussions, over excitement is a clear contender. Something like this is telling her "He is totally into me. I can get him too easily." Too attainable, no challenge, no mystery. It also makes you come across as needy I guess. Turn off.

So we are back to our previous discussions. If this is the issue, you need to tweak it. Tune down the energy level. Try the poker face. Have her wonder "does he like me?". Only smile as a reward for good behavior. Talk only 20% of the time. Watch your own body language, keep it neutral most of the time.

Also, I would like you to try a new approach. It will be out of your comfort zone, but you understand that if you stay in comfort zone and keep doing the same, you will keep getting the same results. You HAVE to change something in your approach.

So the approach I have been suggesting to you is this. You stay out of the "fun" mode. Keep cool and relaxed, laid back, little smile, low energy. Ask her about her story. Actively listen. Two hours into the date, you tell her "Come with me." and take her to your car. You will drive the car to a quiet place like we said, then escalate.

You can also try to build compliance during the date, it will help with your pull. Ask her to do things for you. You can start gentle, sounding like a polite question "Can you call the waitress for me please?" (or whatever). Then increase "Show me your hand." sounding more like an order. Just a few times will be enough. Later, it is going to be "come with me" so the compliance you managed to build will help.

Do not worry about signs of interests, just trust the process. Because doing something like this is in itself immensely attractive to her. It displays you have balls, the precise sort of balls whose sperm she wants inside her.

It will be very much out of your comfort zone. You will be in doubt. You will initially be awkward. There will be some fails. But as you keep practicing, it will come easier next time. It will certainly boost your confidence, and your attractiveness.

Just a tip. When you take her to your car, expect her to ask "where are we going?". Be ready to handle that question. But just be careful, if you tell her something specific such as "we are going to XXX bar", she will expect you go there, and if you don't, you may face some resistance. Something vague and open like "let us just take a drive around" is better.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:22 pm

Seppuku wrote:
Seppuku, to be honest, I believe you that if I just stay at it I'll get it... But at the same time, I can't help but be very confident that after the countless interactions I've had with women that I see a clear conclusion here: They're just not excited to meet me and interact with me, and that's why none of these girls are converting. It's not that I need some tiny tweek to my approach. It's that I have a major excitement problem. If I can get this excitement issue solved, then the rest of it will improve on its own. What do you think? Have you ever had this issue or worked with anyone with this issue? Thank you again for the help, my friend.

There must be ONE thing that you are repeatedly doing, which is causing the issue. I wish I was there to see in person because something big like this would be immediately spotted. I am also very confident that you are initially doing something right, or you wouldn't have had 40 dates... But when you two end up in person, this big thing you are doing is killing it.

And yeah from our past discussions, over excitement is a clear contender. Something like this is telling her "He is totally into me. I can get him too easily." Too attainable, no challenge, no mystery. It also makes you come across as needy I guess. Turn off.

So we are back to our previous discussions. If this is the issue, you need to tweak it. Tune down the energy level. Try the poker face. Have her wonder "does he like me?". Only smile as a reward for good behavior. Talk only 20% of the time. Watch your own body language, keep it neutral most of the time.

Also, I would like you to try a new approach. It will be out of your comfort zone, but you understand that if you stay in comfort zone and keep doing the same, you will keep getting the same results. You HAVE to change something in your approach.

So the approach I have been suggesting to you is this. You stay out of the "fun" mode. Keep cool and relaxed, laid back, little smile, low energy. Ask her about her story. Actively listen. Two hours into the date, you tell her "Come with me." and take her to your car. You will drive the car to a quiet place like we said, then escalate.

You can also try to build compliance during the date, it will help with your pull. Ask her to do things for you. You can start gentle, sounding like a polite question "Can you call the waitress for me please?" (or whatever). Then increase "Show me your hand." sounding more like an order. Just a few times will be enough. Later, it is going to be "come with me" so the compliance you managed to build will help.

Do not worry about signs of interests, just trust the process. Because doing something like this is in itself immensely attractive to her. It displays you have balls, the precise sort of balls whose sperm she wants inside her.

It will be very much out of your comfort zone. You will be in doubt. You will initially be awkward. There will be some fails. But as you keep practicing, it will come easier next time. It will certainly boost your confidence, and your attractiveness.

Just a tip. When you take her to your car, expect her to ask "where are we going?". Be ready to handle that question. But just be careful, if you tell her something specific such as "we are going to XXX bar", she will expect you go there, and if you don't, you may face some resistance. Something vague and open like "let us just take a drive around" is better.

I remember your exact words here from our last thread from several months ago. The only reason I haven't had an update here is because I haven't had a single date to try it on yet!

How would you adapt this approach to meeting girls cold for the first time? I've thought about applying this to my approach of new women, but I just don't see how it can work. First off, I'd be STUNNED if on a normal, every day approach I'm coming across as too eager. Literally all that's going through my head is "there's a cute one. Let's say Hi and see what happens. Let's give this another shot." There's no mental backflips of joy. There is no "ooooo this interaction made my day!!11" It's just an approach like any other. I approach as confidently as possible, smile like a normal person, then strike up the conversation/say hi/ask to dance/whatever.

If you think I should try approaching all girls without a smile at all, and if I should try going anti-excited to the extreme, I'll try it. But definitely everything I've ever read in the coaching sphere whether that's GC, RSD, or anything else suggests smiling/warm/good energy is the way to go. I would expect this to not work because as I've mentioned before, women NEVER approach me. Just like they never show standard signs of interest, they never approach me. So it's not like they're throwing themselves at me, then I show them some hideous smile and they run away. I'm having an attractive/excitement issue even when I'm NOT approaching them. But again, if you think I should try it, I'll try it.

Thank you again!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Seppuku » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:31 am

What I say above was regarding how to run the date. Now, regarding how to get a date, I would recommend you think what you were doing before, because obviously that did work. Just do the same!

You used to have this part right... Check for what you changed recently that caused your results plummeted.

I wouldn't worry if women never approach you, because you're the one expected to make the first step.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:06 am

3/17/19 Lost motivation to approach. Convinced I have some mental illness/inner game issue to address first.

Not a good weekend and I feel depressed at the moment, but there's no need to go into the details there. Nothing new to report. Same old same old responses I'm getting from girls no matter what I do.

This weekend I noticed a new RSD video that spoke to me to a degree. Tyler talks about guys who just come across as weird no matter what they do, how and why their mind is wired to produce this, and generally how to change it. After watching this video, after thinking about the zero results I've gotten trying to get somewhere with girls, and after reviewing my journal, I'm just convinced my head is just fucked up and I need to get that fixed first and foremost.

I'm sure anyone that's read this journal agrees. The posts I make in very bad states are very negative. And when I talk about my opinions about myself they don't sound good at all. I don't know exactly what the issue is and how to address it. I think it's some sort of negative beliefs that are stuck in a cycle and I don't know how to break. I struggle to break out of it because I honestly believe them.

Here are my beliefs that I agree with. Like, logically agree with:
- I am a total loser for somehow getting to this age without any interactions with girls (for instance, never had sex with even one, no girlfriends, no one night stands, nothing. Can't even get dates anymore)
- I'm very embarrassed and humiliated at myself for pulling off this feat. I hate myself for it.
- The prospect of taking years to fix this petrifies me
- Taking years to fix this just guarantees I will be a 31 y/o loser, 32, 33, 34...
- Becoming an even older loser is just going to make the self esteem even worse

This mentality is always in my head. Even on my best nights where I feel like a fucking champion, these beliefs are still in there. I'm not consciously thinking about them, but they're there. No wonder I can't get any success. I have no idea how these feelings show themselves in my vibe/appearance when I'm even in a stellar mood, but nonetheless, no wonder I can't get any success at all.

Not sure how to fix this. I was hoping that I could learn game well enough to compensate for this, get some momentum, get some results, and get moving in the right direction. That would show me that I am indeed in the process of not being a loser anymore and that the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter. And that those beliefs are not at all big deals.

But after seeing the exact same responses from women regardless of where they're at in the process, referring to never seeing signs of interest whether I'm opening a girl or on a date with one, I actually think I can logically conclude that more approaching isn't going to change anything. Not with this fucked up mindset. I need to fix this, and hopefully that will unlock exponential growth and success. More than facial expression tweaks or conversation tips ever could.

Tyler suggested thinking about 'contributing' or doing things for others. 'Bring and increase the energy.' Yeah sure that won't hurt and should help, but I'm not sure if that can undo my negative beliefs. I don't know if they're un-doable. How do you get yourself to believe you're the opposite of a loser when you simultaneously believe that it's an indisputable fact that you are a loser?

Hopefully I can get this fixed. Suggestions are welcome because I have no idea how to tackle these beliefs.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby readjusting » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:06 am

ElderPrice wrote:Here are my beliefs that I agree with. Like, logically agree with:
- I am a total loser for somehow getting to this age without any interactions with girls (for instance, never had sex with even one, no girlfriends, no one night stands, nothing. Can't even get dates anymore)
- I'm very embarrassed and humiliated at myself for pulling off this feat. I hate myself for it.
- The prospect of taking years to fix this petrifies me
- Taking years to fix this just guarantees I will be a 31 y/o loser, 32, 33, 34...
- Becoming an even older loser is just going to make the self esteem even worse


Yeah, I used to have those beliefs before I got any result. But the best part? Girls cannot read your mind.
The first time I got "result" was when I just got off a bus, chatting with a girl in a 2 guys 1 girl group. At the time I was a 22 years old virgin, having been working on pickup for a year, no dates, no girlfriend, no nothing. Later on she kissed me.
I had all the insecurities you had. I thought I was a loser virgin. But she couldn't read my mind. She only saw a normal guy having a normal chat with the group.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:11 pm

Elderprice, I think you're situation would be great for an article because I haven't seen one about starting the game late while being a virgin getting his shit together at the same time while learning to get women too.

There's an article about getting women if you're older, but I believed that's aimed more toward men who still probably had careers and some experience with girls while younger.

The new article is basically like what to do if you have a late start in life and how to not feel so down on yourself and fix your situation

Hopefully an article could be made about what you and others can do if they're an older virgin learning game and getting their shit together at the same time.

All I can say is bro, just keep going, you're doing good.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:28 pm

readjusting wrote:
ElderPrice wrote:Here are my beliefs that I agree with. Like, logically agree with:
- I am a total loser for somehow getting to this age without any interactions with girls (for instance, never had sex with even one, no girlfriends, no one night stands, nothing. Can't even get dates anymore)
- I'm very embarrassed and humiliated at myself for pulling off this feat. I hate myself for it.
- The prospect of taking years to fix this petrifies me
- Taking years to fix this just guarantees I will be a 31 y/o loser, 32, 33, 34...
- Becoming an even older loser is just going to make the self esteem even worse


Yeah, I used to have those beliefs before I got any result. But the best part? Girls cannot read your mind.
The first time I got "result" was when I just got off a bus, chatting with a girl in a 2 guys 1 girl group. At the time I was a 22 years old virgin, having been working on pickup for a year, no dates, no girlfriend, no nothing. Later on she kissed me.
I had all the insecurities you had. I thought I was a loser virgin. But she couldn't read my mind. She only saw a normal guy having a normal chat with the group.

They can't read your mind, but I'm convinced they're reading something about me. Something about my vibe/appearance just can't attract the least bit attractive girls. Girls aren't excited to meet me even if I'm in my best, most positive mood. Been trying to figure out forever what the culprit is. Currently I'm thinking it must be my buried negativity. Maybe it's making me look desperate or needy or something? No idea.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:21 am

Sub-Zero wrote:Elderprice, I think you're situation would be great for an article because I haven't seen one about starting the game late while being a virgin getting his shit together at the same time while learning to get women too.

There's an article about getting women if you're older, but I believed that's aimed more toward men who still probably had careers and some experience with girls while younger.

The new article is basically like what to do if you have a late start in life and how to not feel so down on yourself and fix your situation

Hopefully an article could be made about what you and others can do if they're an older virgin learning game and getting their shit together at the same time.

All I can say is bro, just keep going, you're doing good.

Thank you!

Hmmm while it's true it's really hard to find articles on this situation (whether here or on other sites), I can see why. It's an incredibly rare situation to be in. In my opinion basically impossibly rare. It's just hard for a guy to go 15ish years and not even accidentally trip and fall into a pussy. It happens at some point for everyone. You just have to be exceptionally fucked up to go that long without sex. At least in my opinion. And I'm not sure what the article would cover that hasn't been covered already in multiple articles.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:30 pm

3/21/19 Feeling better

Okay so I'm thinking I'm seeing a pattern here. I'm not happy with the results I'm getting, particularly on weekends, so I get butthurt Sunday and Monday, make a butthurt post on one of those days, then after a few days I feel better and am ready to quit bitching and go back out.

This time it helped that I went back to read some basic "PUA" stuff to mentally reset and make sure I'm following the basic concepts correctly. In this case, approaching enough. The idea has also been raised by others in this journal. But I read through some articles on Tony D's blog again and saw some old RSD videos again, and they hammer home a point that I've been doubting lately: if you're not happy with your results, approach more girls. So, I'm going to try and approach more girls. I can't fit too much additional time into my schedule, so I'm going to try and optimize the time I do have. For example, instead of getting take out and eating at home, I'll try to sit down at the restaurant to eat there. Might be able to meet more girls that way! Also, if one venue on the weekend isn't tickling my fancy or doesn't have many attractive girls, move on to another. I don't have to stay at a venue for long at all if it's not a great night there talent-wise.

Anyway, the main point of this entry is this: To anyone that follows this journal regularly, if I continue making sob story posts every Sunday and they just get dumber and dumber over time, then if you're going to reply, please reply with something like "Hey Elder, give it 3-4 days then come back. You'll be fine."

Thanks guys! I deeply appreciate all your help, I really do!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Seppuku » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:45 am

EP,

We are running into circles. I will eventually sound repetitive.

ElderPrice wrote:They can't read your mind, but I'm convinced they're reading something about me.

Of course they do.

Guys who do not see any girl, find it almost impossible to get one girl. Guys who are seeing 3 girls simultaneously, will have no problem to get a 4th girl in their rotation. Ask me how I know? Because I have been on both ends! It has also been verified multiple times over on these Boards. Look how Ambiance or Hue are consistently cleaning, for example.

It is not one of the least feminine paradoxes. On one hand these ladies want a man who will commit faithfully to them and provide. On the other hand, they want a man loved by every other girls. And they don't want the man loved by no one. It's very fucked up, I know, and unfair for the guys least sexually experience. But that is the REALITY of how girls work.

But how would they know if a man is loved by other girls or not? Because they can tell!

"Girls can't read my mind". No they can't read your conscious thoughts obviously. But they can read the cues you are giving away by your body language and overall behavior, like an open book. They are VERY good at that.

So yes, they are reading something about you: your overall sexual experience. Again, I am not saying this to make you feel bad and bring you down, you personally. Quite the contrary, I would really like to see you succeed! But I just want you to know what is the nature of the problem you are facing.

You are not the only one on these Boards with this problem. Among the guys I tried to help over the years, Witcher and ThePhoenix eventually made it when they finally mustered the courage to apply this simple dating advice: pull on first date. In general, even if you don't have the logistics to pull (which is a big problem IMO), you should still aim for a sexual objective. This is the way to reverse the negative feedback loop into a self reinforcing virtuous circle. Isolate her, and take out those boobs! That will boost your self confidence, compensate for your lack of experience, alleviate the problem, and will make it overall easier for you with the next girl.

Something about my vibe/appearance just can't attract the least bit attractive girls. Girls aren't excited to meet me even if I'm in my best, most positive mood. Been trying to figure out forever what the culprit is. Currently I'm thinking it must be my buried negativity. Maybe it's making me look desperate or needy or something? No idea.

Whereas the "overall sexual experience" thing certainly affects the outcome of your dates, it does not explain why you are no longer getting any date. Why? Because you used to get plenty of dates. Something about you has changed since last year, which is translated into your vibe. I don't know what it is exactly, you know best! BUT yes, your "accumulated negativity" is a clear contender. Eventually it is all in your mind! Stay positive, please!

Your problem CAN be overcome. You eventually will. Do not give up! Keep it positive and continue to believe in it!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:02 am

3/25/19 A learning weekend

First off, thank you again for the kind words Seppuku. I'll do my best to stay positive. I'm currently looking at material to see how I can maintain a positive mood and not go into brief depressive funks.

As for this weekend, it was a good weekend in that I had a good deal of socializing and learning opportunities. But nothing as far as results. I was depressed today, but it was different than previous depressive days. It was a very depressed day but without the sad component if that makes sense. I can't explain why I was feeling this way. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be fine in a day or two.

Not much to report from Friday. Went dancing because I just wanted to do something fun. Maybe interacted with 10 new girls that night. Like always, no hooks. But I wasn't trying. I purposely didn't try. I wanted to try experimenting if I stop 'chasing' completely, if anything would happen on their end, like if they would start showing signs of interest. Alas, nothing yet as far as this experiment goes. But this has been a good experiment. I can feel myself getting better at walking away from and being 'colder' to girls who aren't interested. In other words, if they're not into me, why reward that with a smile and an attempt at a conversation? And why waste my time on those girls.

Saturday I went to a big meetup event at a bar I hadn't been to before. I went to this solely for the sake of practicing. I gave myself a game to say hi to everyone at the meetup (and whoever else I wanted to say hi to). I didn't bother counting, but I had to have approached at least 50 people that night. Possibly more. Nothing in terms of results came from it. No girls there were interested. Afterward I went to a close by salsa night. Didn't feel like driving far at that point in the night. I said before that I wanted to take a break from salsa. This night reaffirmed it. I didn't go to the salsa night to meet girls. I just wanted to fucking dance and practice my rusty salsa. Unfortunately the girls all acted the same as they have previously. Just so cold. Like, no one else was there to just let loose and have a good time. Toward the end of the night I spotted a friend. We were chatting about our night and the topic turned to girls. He's also pretty new to meeting girls so we're speaking the same language here. I tell him how I've been struggling lately and trying to comprehend what's wrong with me. I say it's got to be something about my vibe or 'appearance' that I can't detect. He provided some useful feedback. He said I just don't look confident. Even if I feel fine on the inside, even though I just came from warming up with 50 opens, even though I was wanting to dance to have fun.... somehow my appearance still screamed 'lacking confidence.' Very useful feedback, but not sure how to improve it. I'm already trying to be in as confident a state of mind as possible so I don't know how you do that... more so.

Sunday I was invited to a friend's party. It was very fun. Lasted all afternoon and evening. A couple black friends were there. It was fascinating to watch them and observe why they do so well with women. They have one mood: always positive and happy. They are loud in a good way and love being the center of attention. They're always 'leading' the other people they're with toward having fun. Definitely great traits for attracting girls. I definitely need to work on those.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby fog » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:33 pm

hi elder

been skimming over your shit for a while and i am astounded by your numbers. 40 dates & no results? 60 approaches over the weekend & no results? thats mindboggling dude

you mentioned that your friend said you don't appear confident. the whole confidence thing, I’m pretty sure thats the reason behind your extreme lack of success.

most people have average confidence. once in a while i see someone who radiates confidence. once in a while i see someone who radiates unconfidence.

i can tell that a person is unconfident just from looking at them. it permeates every aspect of their being. it shows up in subtle ways they cannot control, and in ways they are not aware of. it appears in their nonverbals. their eyes. the way they walk. their micro expressions.

are you like that? i dont know for sure. i would know for certain the moment i saw you in person. but i have a hunch this is the issue. an average guy with average confidence would at least get a few positive reactions from 60 approaches. and he’d likely get at least a kiss or 2 from 40 dates.

here’s what’s happening. the girls are sensing this on you even before you’ve opened, and it is communicated continuously through your interactions. every single girl ends up viewing you as lower value than her.

its like walking by a homeless person on the street. the homeless person begs you for money in a weak feeble voice, but you ignore them so easily. their presence is so weak and repulsive, they barely register as a blip on your radar.

if this is the case, you will need a complete overhaul in your inner mindset, while actively working to incorporate more confident, dominant actions into your behaviour. at first you wont have the mindsets to back up these actions, so you will basically be “faking it till you make it." its not a quick fix - working on this could take years. i know how much needs to be done because i used to be quite unconfident and submissive….but ive spent the last few years working on my mindset and behaviour and really turned things around. its something i am still working on daily.

here's some exercises to try out:

believe you are higher value than every person you talk to. believe you are the coolest person to ever walk this planet. believe you are a rockstar.

observe the way you move, your vocal tones, facial expressions, and all other parts of your behavior. is this behavior confident or unconfident? dominant or submissive?

observe other people. is that person confident or unconfident? dominant or submissive? what makes them that way? are you perhaps displaying the same behaviours as that person?

start observing your thoughts in interactions. do you feel the girl is higher value than you?

doing things like this will help you understand how to improve
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:21 pm

fog wrote:hi elder

been skimming over your shit for a while and i am astounded by your numbers. 40 dates & no results? 60 approaches over the weekend & no results? thats mindboggling dude

you mentioned that your friend said you don't appear confident. the whole confidence thing, I’m pretty sure thats the reason behind your extreme lack of success.

most people have average confidence. once in a while i see someone who radiates confidence. once in a while i see someone who radiates unconfidence.

i can tell that a person is unconfident just from looking at them. it permeates every aspect of their being. it shows up in subtle ways they cannot control, and in ways they are not aware of. it appears in their nonverbals. their eyes. the way they walk. their micro expressions.

are you like that? i dont know for sure. i would know for certain the moment i saw you in person. but i have a hunch this is the issue. an average guy with average confidence would at least get a few positive reactions from 60 approaches. and he’d likely get at least a kiss or 2 from 40 dates.

here’s what’s happening. the girls are sensing this on you even before you’ve opened, and it is communicated continuously through your interactions. every single girl ends up viewing you as lower value than her.

its like walking by a homeless person on the street. the homeless person begs you for money in a weak feeble voice, but you ignore them so easily. their presence is so weak and repulsive, they barely register as a blip on your radar.

if this is the case, you will need a complete overhaul in your inner mindset, while actively working to incorporate more confident, dominant actions into your behaviour. at first you wont have the mindsets to back up these actions, so you will basically be “faking it till you make it." its not a quick fix - working on this could take years. i know how much needs to be done because i used to be quite unconfident and submissive….but ive spent the last few years working on my mindset and behaviour and really turned things around. its something i am still working on daily.

here's some exercises to try out:

believe you are higher value than every person you talk to. believe you are the coolest person to ever walk this planet. believe you are a rockstar.

observe the way you move, your vocal tones, facial expressions, and all other parts of your behavior. is this behavior confident or unconfident? dominant or submissive?

observe other people. is that person confident or unconfident? dominant or submissive? what makes them that way? are you perhaps displaying the same behaviours as that person?

start observing your thoughts in interactions. do you feel the girl is higher value than you?

doing things like this will help you understand how to improve

Hey fog. Thank you so much for the help!

Yeah I'm sort of stumped too haha. Just to clarify, those were 50+ opens this weekend of guys and girls. It wasn't just girls. Probably majority guys actually. No matter. It's still mindboggling the dates I've been on that didn't end well, and just the total number of approaches I've done over the year that haven't ended well. The only clue I have from the girls is that they literally never give signs of interest, referring to those interests listed in a couple articles on this site. Whether it's been while approaching them or even on dates with them, the signs of interest are never there. For example, not one date has ever touched back and I'm talking like a playful touch on the forearm type of thing.

Yeah I mean it's a good theory that I'm radiating something bad like a lack of confidence. I could try asking more people for feedback about my vibe. A couple of friends that I've talked to actually made shocked faces when I told them I struggle with women. One of them specifically commented that I appear confident when he sees me interacting with them. *shoulder shrug*
Perhaps it's not necessarily confidence because I HAVE gotten dates. Actually my complete guess for a while is that I've had the success I've had BECAUSE of my confidence. Like, there's something else weird about my appearance or vibe, and my confidence is what actually got me those dates in the first place... and all the phone numbers in the last few months that ended up not resulting in a date.

Now that said, of course it's always a good thing to work on confidence and to be more confident. Regarding myself, I try to appear confident. I've read about it. I know it's a fundamental. I consciously do my best to walk tall, maintain good eye contact (I try. Not the best at this yet), move slowly, speak in a slow, sexy way (I have a terrible voice no matter what I do). Mentally I try to be confident in my choices and actions and to act like how a cool, confident man would act. I don't think I ever think of the girl as being higher value than me. If anything, I give her no value. My thought process is pretty simple. 'There's a cutie. Try approaching/hooking her. Not interested. Oh well. On to the next/just find another.' *shoulder shrug*

Good idea on the exercise suggestions. I haven't actually tried a night holding on to a belief like that before. Sounds like an interesting frame to attempt to hold all night.

Thanks again fog!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:30 pm

EP,

I read just the second page and recent LR, so forgive anything I may miss from 1st page.

Definitely sounds like an inner game struggle. On some level thatʼs something you just have to find the strength from inside yourself — our advice can only do so much. With that said, there are some things that come to mind.

First of all, I have to wonder if you are struggling with a clinical depression or maybe bipolar disorder. I have a good friend who has struggled badly with depression over years, and I can tell you that even when he is not acting overtly depressed, it still affects his vibe, I think. Heʼs gay but if he was going after girls, I could see him struggling badly. Itʼs not something Iʼve ever faced myself so I canʼt help much there, but Chase overcame depression; you might want to check out his articles on that. Figure out if thatʼs an issue and if so, you need to overcome that first and foremost.

I also think that you pay too much attention to looking for signs of interest from women. There is some value in getting such signs, but it can also be very misleading. For instance, the time you recently got intimate with a girl, she seemed to be a remarkable exception where she was showing lots of signs, and thatʼs what enabled you to move forward — seeing the interest. I have to wonder if there were other girls you had simply assumed were not into you who actually might have been more open than you think.

Read my LR from late last year. By the way, I was significantly older than you when it happened and that was basically my first time, and that was a college girl, too! So donʼt worry about your age! It was not textbook perfect by any means, and I hesitated and delayed needlessly. But one thing it illustrates well is that women arenʼt always overt in their interest. Those long lists you posted of signs of interest and complaining you never get those signs? The girl was basically not doing anything on that list. In fact, on the date, she even pointed her legs away from me — supposedly the opposite of interested posture. I invited her home not because I thought she was interested, but simply because I knew that I had nothing to lose in trying, because youʼll almost never get a 2nd date, anyway.

You may be sabotaging yourself by assuming that you should see at least some signs of interest. Then when you donʼt see those signs, you get discouraged. It then becomes a self‑fulfilling prophecy, because your negative feeling bleeds into your behaviour and the lack of confidence becomes a turn‑off. Just assume attraction and go for compliance — youʼll do much better! My success ratios are not that bad and yet itʼs extremely rare that I see the signs of interest on your lists — sometimes, but not usually.

Also, I donʼt know how you are inviting them home, but it really helps to have a good excuse to bring them home. I know thatʼs a lot harder when you have to pull to her house. But try! When you are deep diving her, keep in the back of your mind to look for things she has at home. Pets, some collection, artwork, or anything you can ask her to show you.

Another thing to consider is to add some day game into your approaching. It takes a lot of balls to stop a girl in a shopping mall or supermarket or walking down the street. Most guys are not that brave. Even if youʼre not so confident, as long as youʼve done it enough that youʼve got a routine and youʼre not a total bundle of nerves, your approach can still seem quite confident to her, simply because most guys donʼt do this at all. Being brave with women is extremely attractive to them, because it subconsciously implies for them that you must get a lot of women — even if thatʼs not really the case. I think that is part of why it only took me about 60 approaches since starting in order to get laid. (I counted 35 initially as I had missed some minor occasions.)

Inner game is really key. For me personally, I never put too much attention into outer game beyond some grooming and sexy fashion and trying to catch myself if Iʼm doing really bad stuff like being slumped over. The reason I donʼt put much attention into it is because I find it kind of hard and frustrating and distracting to have to monitor it all, and I am of the belief that as the experience and inner game improves, the outer game will improve unconsciously by itself. Good beliefs are the key!

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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:41 am

ThePhoenix wrote:EP,

I read just the second page and recent LR, so forgive anything I may miss from 1st page.

Definitely sounds like an inner game struggle. On some level thatʼs something you just have to find the strength from inside yourself — our advice can only do so much. With that said, there are some things that come to mind.

First of all, I have to wonder if you are struggling with a clinical depression or maybe bipolar disorder. I have a good friend who has struggled badly with depression over years, and I can tell you that even when he is not acting overtly depressed, it still affects his vibe, I think. Heʼs gay but if he was going after girls, I could see him struggling badly. Itʼs not something Iʼve ever faced myself so I canʼt help much there, but Chase overcame depression; you might want to check out his articles on that. Figure out if thatʼs an issue and if so, you need to overcome that first and foremost.

I also think that you pay too much attention to looking for signs of interest from women. There is some value in getting such signs, but it can also be very misleading. For instance, the time you recently got intimate with a girl, she seemed to be a remarkable exception where she was showing lots of signs, and thatʼs what enabled you to move forward — seeing the interest. I have to wonder if there were other girls you had simply assumed were not into you who actually might have been more open than you think.

Read my LR from late last year. By the way, I was significantly older than you when it happened and that was basically my first time, and that was a college girl, too! So donʼt worry about your age! It was not textbook perfect by any means, and I hesitated and delayed needlessly. But one thing it illustrates well is that women arenʼt always overt in their interest. Those long lists you posted of signs of interest and complaining you never get those signs? The girl was basically not doing anything on that list. In fact, on the date, she even pointed her legs away from me — supposedly the opposite of interested posture. I invited her home not because I thought she was interested, but simply because I knew that I had nothing to lose in trying, because youʼll almost never get a 2nd date, anyway.

You may be sabotaging yourself by assuming that you should see at least some signs of interest. Then when you donʼt see those signs, you get discouraged. It then becomes a self‑fulfilling prophecy, because your negative feeling bleeds into your behaviour and the lack of confidence becomes a turn‑off. Just assume attraction and go for compliance — youʼll do much better! My success ratios are not that bad and yet itʼs extremely rare that I see the signs of interest on your lists — sometimes, but not usually.

Also, I donʼt know how you are inviting them home, but it really helps to have a good excuse to bring them home. I know thatʼs a lot harder when you have to pull to her house. But try! When you are deep diving her, keep in the back of your mind to look for things she has at home. Pets, some collection, artwork, or anything you can ask her to show you.

Another thing to consider is to add some day game into your approaching. It takes a lot of balls to stop a girl in a shopping mall or supermarket or walking down the street. Most guys are not that brave. Even if youʼre not so confident, as long as youʼve done it enough that youʼve got a routine and youʼre not a total bundle of nerves, your approach can still seem quite confident to her, simply because most guys donʼt do this at all. Being brave with women is extremely attractive to them, because it subconsciously implies for them that you must get a lot of women — even if thatʼs not really the case. I think that is part of why it only took me about 60 approaches since starting in order to get laid. (I counted 35 initially as I had missed some minor occasions.)

Inner game is really key. For me personally, I never put too much attention into outer game beyond some grooming and sexy fashion and trying to catch myself if Iʼm doing really bad stuff like being slumped over. The reason I donʼt put much attention into it is because I find it kind of hard and frustrating and distracting to have to monitor it all, and I am of the belief that as the experience and inner game improves, the outer game will improve unconsciously by itself. Good beliefs are the key!

Phoenix

Phoenix, thank you so much for taking the time to read and comment. I appreciate your help! You touched on several points, so I'll try to address each one...

Regarding depression, I have actually wondered before if I have some sort of constant or clinical depression. Maybe not a major depression, but some sort of light variety that's always there. I just googled symptoms for clinical depression, and the symptoms listed definitely occur for me, but only on bad days. On a good day I feel fine and many of those symptoms go away. I've read Chase's articles on depression. I'll read them again. I've read other things and watched videos about depression. I remember they just didn't resonate with me in particular. I don't know. I can try again to execute their recommendations, but I've always struggled buying in to their suggestions. As a matter of fact, the other day I read through an entire website module about depression. It was all about CBT. Their main to-do's involved writing things down which I did. But it just didn't seem helpful. It wasn't clicking.

Regarding signs of interest, it just really bothers me how I literally never see them. And I'm not saying I expect to see them 90% of the time, or 50%, or something crazy. But 1 out of 30 times would be cool? 1 out of 100? Also regarding signs of interest, don't get me wrong, I've made sure to try pushing through despite the no signs. Back when I got dates I still tried to move things forward despite no signs on the date. During my current dateless stretch, I've been collecting numbers quite easily, all while never even seeing one clear sign of interest. Then I come on the internet and read about other people's problems/examples dealing with women and it really drives up the frustration. I read the conversations they're having with women, and even though these are obviously rare conversations they have, the conversations they're posting include the women saying things that they just never say to me. Those girls just say things that make it so much easier for the guys posting about it. They use much clearer language. It just seems like everyone at least occasionally meets gorgeous women that actually try to get their attention. SEEMS - I know. I however never see it. It just feels wrong to me. Like I'm some alien or something other than a normal male human. And again, I totally get it that a lot of guys don't see signs of interest either. But they still get results. I'm getting no signs of interest and no results. So I've been curious about signs of interest lately using the logic that if I can make changes that can actually generate signs of interest, a lot more good things should follow. Anyway, apologies for that turning into a mini rant on signs of interest haha.

Working to add more day game. But yes, I have become convinced in the past week or two that it's got to be an inner game issue. So I've been trying to find how to address this.

Thank you again!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:19 am

EP,

Let me ask some questions; forgive me if youʼve stated already, but perhaps repeating is useful:

  • Do you prefer a woman to be a chaste angel? Do you feel women who open their legs easily are inferior or debased? Do you see promiscuity in a woman as a liability?

  • Do you think women see promiscuous men as no‑good sons‑of‑bitches that they wouldnʼt want to have anything to do with?

  • Do you feel that women donʼt like men looking at them sexually or being sexually aggressive with them?

  • Are you very insecure over your physical qualities, like height or age?

  • Do you feel that itʼs a manʼs duty to provide economic value to a woman? If your financial or living circumstances arenʼt good, do you feel a woman is bound to reject you over this?

  • Are you afraid that you might not be able to please a woman sexually? Either out of inexperience or any other factors?

  • Do you think of the loss of your virginity as a really special, picture‑perfect moment?
A “yes” answer to any of the above questions would be a good candidate for whatʼs screwing you up, and I think that covers about 99% of possible sources of inner game issues, so if youʼre honest with yourself, at least one of these is probably “yes.” Knowing which one could also help give more meaningful advice.

Cheers,
Phoenix
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:06 pm

Thank you for putting this mini quiz together! I'm eager to hear your thoughts after my answers:
[*] Do you prefer a woman to be a chaste angel? Do you feel women who open their legs easily are inferior or debased? Do you see promiscuity in a woman as a liability?

No, not a liability at all. It doesn't bother me at all.
[*] Do you think women see promiscuous men as no‑good sons‑of‑bitches that they wouldnʼt want to have anything to do with?

Not at all. Men that get laid a lot are most attractive to women.
[*] Do you feel that women donʼt like men looking at them sexually or being sexually aggressive with them?

They definitely like it.
[*] Are you very insecure over your physical qualities, like height or age?

Height, no. Age, no. On any day that's not a bad day I feel like I'm a pretty good looking dude. I know my style is sort of mediocre, but that's a work in progress. The one physical insecurity that I have remaining is my skin. I have terrible skin on my chest, shoulders, and back. Lots of acne scars and I still get some huge, red cystic acne there. It's nowhere near the insecurity it was 5-10 years ago, but it's the last lingering insecurity I have. I saw a derm recently and for a number of good reasons he actually recommended against any treatments and to just live with it. I'm seeking more opinions.
[*] Do you feel that itʼs a manʼs duty to provide economic value to a woman? If your financial or living circumstances arenʼt good, do you feel a woman is bound to reject you over this?

No to both. The only caveat I'd say is: while dating, a man absolutely has no duty to provide economic value. Now, if a man is married and has kids, he should probably do his best to provide for his family.
[*] Are you afraid that you might not be able to please a woman sexually? Either out of inexperience or any other factors?

It used to be a concern, but not anymore. I'll enjoy all my experiences and just get better over time. As long as I'm relaxed and enjoying the experience I'm not worried about it at all.
[*] Do you think of the loss of your virginity as a really special, picture‑perfect moment?

Not at all. I don't expect it to even really register as a moment. The special moment will come way after that once my lifestyle has fully transformed - having the ability to pull new girls consistently, having girls chasing me trying to see me again, finally experiencing a relationship whenever that comes... Those are the cool moments I'm looking forward to.

Thanks again Phoenix. Let me know what you think. These are fully honest answers. I know you're trying to help diagnose so I'm definitely not holding anything back. These are my honest answers.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 pm

EP,

I canʼt see too much in your answers to indicate a bad mind‑set. With that said, it is possible that if you ever had any dysfunctional beliefs in past — and most of us have, — they could still impact your behaviour on an unconscious level even though you have rejected them consciously on an intellectual level. If that is the case, it may just be a matter of more practice, and getting enough lucky breaks to help gradually internalize the right mentality more deeply.

You did run into such luck at least once — the recent LR probably could have been a full lay if managed slightly better. So I donʼt think you are hopeless, although itʼs harder for some reason.

The lack of any other explanation would again make me think some mild depression might be making this harder, but I donʼt have any suggestions there, unfortunately.

ElderPrice wrote:I know my style is sort of mediocre, but thatʼs a work in progress.

You may want to pay more attention to fashion, as itʼs something that you have a lot of control over. Unlike eye contact or voice or any of that other stuff, where your unconscious mind may betray you if youʼre not fully confident, you have total conscious control over it. Same with text messages (a weak thought will not hurt your game as long as you donʼt press Send, lol). I think that has helped me.

ElderPrice wrote:The one physical insecurity that I have remaining is my skin. I have terrible skin on my chest, shoulders, and back. Lots of acne scars and I still get some huge, red cystic acne there. Itʼs nowhere near the insecurity it was 5-10 years ago, but itʼs the last lingering insecurity I have. I saw a derm recently and for a number of good reasons he actually recommended against any treatments and to just live with it. Iʼm seeking more opinions.

How much this issue really affects you is probably governed mostly by how much youʼve let it affect your confidence.

I have a friend who has a physical flaw that I have also. He recently got a type of treatment for it. I think it will probably help him, because he seems happier and more confident with his appearance. At the same time, although he recommended it to me, Iʼm not in a rush to get the treatment, because it doesnʼt really bother me — I just work my style around it and basically never think about it. The difference between us is that it really ate away at his confidence. The reason the treatment I think was good for him, is not because he looks better, but because he feels better about himself.

If this is something you could cover up with clothes, you could try doing that and see what happens. Mainly, that would help get your mind off whether the girl notices or cares. If you can get some success while hiding it, Iʼm guessing youʼll probably find that you donʼt need to hide it any more.

I wonʼt discount the possibility that it could have some impact on a womanʼs initial impression if it looks like youʼre dying of Ebola or something, but I think the effect is probably less than youʼd expect. From everything Iʼve seen, behavioural cues are way more significant to women than physical traits. This is something itʼs a bit hard for us as guys to relate to, because weʼre very much attracted to physical beauty in females, so we just mentally assume they must be the same.

ElderPrice wrote:The only caveat Iʼd say is: while dating, a man absolutely has no duty to provide economic value. Now, if a man is married and has kids, he should probably do his best to provide for his family.

Here is where our mentality starts to differ. I have seen far too much, both in science and in anecdotal observation of peopleʼs behaviour, to believe that it is natural for humans or most other animals to settle down into true and permanent monogamy. Science strongly points to the female being instinctively conditioned to lock down a male that she can lock down in order to use his resources, and then get impregnated by one of those males she canʼt lock down. (This is not to say it always actually plays out that way, but to say that this is her nature and that any other behaviour she may manifest is the result of a constant internal battle between her nature and social norms.)

I think a lot of people (including many of the seasoned guys on here) when faced with that science tend to either stick their head in the sand or else become cynical towards women. They want to attract women but they still want to eventually do that which does not sexually attract women (marry), because thatʼs what religion and society have conditioned them to believe they should ultimately be aiming for. The guys who have enough experiene with women stand a better chance of pulling it off, but in my opinion theyʼre still subjecting themselves to needless risk and disadvantage. Some people when I present them with the science, they try to attack it — because theyʼve been that strongly conditioned to idealize monogamy. Other guys, when they figure out how women actually work, accept the objective reality but are unwilling to adapt to it ideologically, and those ones become bitter MGTOW etc. who look at women as evil.

To me, I rather just adapt to reality. I love women the way they are, while also loving myself and my independence. I donʼt plan on ever marrying or even being monogamous. I do plan on having a kid, albeit probably “accidentally” (LOL), but my only responsibility is to share equally in looking after my kid. I donʼt feel any kind of obligation to look after the woman — thatʼs her job! I donʼt plan on living with her if at all possible — Iʼd much rather live separately but nearby, and share custody with her equally right from the beginning. Obviously Iʼd want her to be someone I have a good connection with, and I really believe that connection would endure much better than it usually does in traditional families, because she will never lose respect for me the way she would if I let her break my male nature. I also strongly believe thatʼs a much healthier way of raising a child than exposing them to the risk of finding themself upheaved and caught between the parties of a bitter divorce at 6 or 7 years old.

My conviction to this approach is so strong that Iʼm seriously willing to leave my home country in the West for 18 years to raise my kid if it so turns out I knock up a woman in Africa, because I would rather still follow that plan than having to sponsor a woman, making myself legally responsible to her care for something like 8 years, in order to get her into my country. I absolutely donʼt want to be the guy supporting a woman, because I seriously, with all of my being, think of that guy as a loser whose sperm she is rejecting.

do think that completely ditching monogamy as an ideal, to the point that I donʼt even want it to ever happen, has helped my mentality a lot. I think itʼs part of why Iʼve started to see success quite quickly. (Quickly in terms of interactions — not chronologically, because my taste in women largely rejects the whole continent Iʼm on at the moment.) I think itʼs harder to really internalize polygamy while youʼre still harboring intentions of eventually being monogamous.

With that said, there are many guys on here who expect to eventually settle down who still manage to get with women, and of course I know guys IRL in relationships, so I canʼt really say that this discrepancy fully explains your troubles.

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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:54 pm

I don't think that line of thinking is the culprit for me lol. I think at the end of the day a lot of it is just mood related. It's very, very hard for me to get into that "here's an awesome guy that is the center of attention and loves it" energy. Even on days and nights when I'm not feeling depressed at all, it's just super hard to be the high energy guy and hold it all day and night.

Perhaps a way to think about it is this: I don't drink and I feel like I have a Ron Swanson / confident, quiet, & no frills type of personality.

I know I need to change that. My plan is to continue pushing the envelope when it comes to approaching/socializing. For instance, I liked my game in the previous reply where I went to that meetup and just said to myself 'the game is to meet every person here.' I should continue trying it. When I get to a venue, just be a cool, friendly person and try to befriend everyone there. Something like that to help boost the mood, warmup, and in a very particular way, help me stand out in my own way.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:27 am

EP,

We might be on to something here:

ElderPrice wrote:... Itʼs very, very hard for me to get into that “hereʼs an awesome guy that is the center of attention and loves it” energy. Even on days and nights when Iʼm not feeling depressed at all, itʼs just super hard to be the high energy guy and hold it all day and night.

Perhaps a way to think about it is this: I donʼt drink and I feel like I have a Ron Swanson / confident, quiet, & no frills type of personality.

I know I need to change that. ...

I personally am a kind of introverted person. I wouldnʼt say Iʼm always quitet; I can be a bit more energetic when you get me on a topic I have a passion for, and do have a good projecting voice when I actually get into this mode. But generally, Iʼm fairly quiet, and am generally comfortable in solutide, although I do like people around sometimes. In school, I was the type who usually made friends by having others be curious about me and come talk to me — I almost never made friends by being proactive about it, nor did I even feel like I needed to.

Well, when I first discovered game, it was from guys like Mystery and Savoy. Those guys concentrated on club game and their style was very, very much based on group social dynamics. Discovering them was a double‑edged sword for me.

On one hand, before that I was clueless about women and had only ever been a beta male orbiter. (To make matters worse, the type of woman I go for, tends to go for sexually aggressive males. So I spent years of my life lightyears away from any pussy.) In that way, Mystery & friends saved me from myself.

On the other hand, because I was not by nature a “social butterfly” and their style of game tends to emphasize that, I got really discouraged. I went through a period where I was depressed — maybe not clinically, but certainly had a lot of negative thoughts. I became severely intimidated by women and really angry at life because I felt I had been born with a personality women would inherently not be attracted to. All this socio‑psychological razzle‑dazzle these guys were teaching felt like something so alien to my personality that I wasnʼt sure how I would ever master it. Sadly, I put off learning for a number of years because I believed the amount of time and energy I would have to invest to get any sort of result at all would be enormous, and I wasnʼt at a point in my life where I felt I could do that.

Gradually, I exposed myself to several other seduction writers who were less formulaic and systematized, and I started experimenting just a little bit with women around me. I got some limited results but which nevertheless gradually helped me overcome being intimidated by them, although old habits die hard, and having spent so much time avoiding women left damage Iʼm still working on.

Iʼve since realized that you really donʼt need to be a social butterfly to be attractive to women. A quiet, mysterious guy can be quite attractive if he still shows confidence and sexual aggression. Iʼm not positive but I seem to remember Seppuku relating to being a more quiet or introverted type also, but he cleans up! Maybe heʼll chime in if Iʼm remembering correctly or not.

Rather than trying to turn yourself into a person youʼre not, adjust your game to fit your personality type!

For instance, I occasionally do club game and other types of public gatherings and social events, but I donʼt make it my main thrust. I actually almost got laid from something similar to club game, but there was a fair bit of luck involved and I had some connections in that venue thanks to having a year prior forced myself into some extroverted settings. So you could still gain from trying sometimes to work more extroverted settings, but if you make it your main thrust, itʼs likely to be draining, overwhelming, and make you discouraged. On some level I find that sort of setting mentally exhausting, so I donʼt make it my mainstay.

Personally, from what you have said I think you really need to look at day game more. It is a much lower energy setting, so if youʼre not the “center of attention and loves it” type, thatʼs totally fine and youʼll fit right in — in places like a mall, low‑key approaches are best! I find in malls, girls are often in sets of two (most common) or sometimes more, so there is still some social dynamic you need to work with, but you can also find lone girls to talk to. Groups in malls are skewed towards all‑female, which I find less intimidating. You may also find other environments where theyʼre alone more, such as walking down the street. (I tend to focus on malls due to the local geography and my girl preferences, but there are many possibilities!) There is also a lot less cockblocking, and girls are not in this “look at me, Iʼm the center of attention, now bow before me” type mode.

On-line is an option too, since itʼs basically just between you and the girl right from the beginning. I should really try it, but Iʼve found that I really like day game because women are so not expecting to be approached, so you get off to a good start as long as youʼve done it enough to not freak out. Youʼll probably botch the first dozen approaches really badly, maybe even worse than in other types of venues — but donʼt let that discourage you, because when you get used to it, itʼs a big advantage!! Itʼs so ballsy!!

Cheers,
Phoenix

p.s., Iʼm not much of a media type, so I had no idea who Ron Swanson was, but I just watched a YT collage, and, hahaha, heʼs awesome! Not that I fully agree with the ideologies, but his style cracks me up. Just make him promiscuous, sexually confident, sexually aggressive, maybe some other minor tweaks, bolder fashion, and I think heʼd be fine with women!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:10 pm

Thank you again for your thoughts! I will continue working to incorporate day game. I'll also look more into what you can do if you're going for a more low-key/introverted style. I definitely have to be proactive about approaching because sitting back and waiting will not work for me. Girls never approach me, even if I'm in the best mood ever.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:35 pm

3/31/19

Started getting a little sick this weekend so I didn't have as much gusto as normal.

Friday I had an art class and went dancing. The art class was a one time class that a friend got me for Christmas. Basically a 'paint this and take it home' type of thing. I was curious if there would be any girls there. Whenever you google shit like "where to meet girls," every single list has "classes" on it. I've always thought this had to be bullshit. Just too low volume, right? I think it's much better to go meet girls at a high volume place. Then you don't have to hope that the 1 attractive, single, your age girl in the class of 30 likes you or not. Even though this is just a sample size of 1, my suspicions were correct hahaha. The class was exclusively couples and the vast majority were over 50. A dud as far as meeting girls goes.

Nothing to report from dancing. I just did that for fun. Didn't meet too many new girls.

Saturday I tried some day game. I went to a music festival with friends. Dealt with a little approach anxiety. It was tougher since I was doing this while feeling a little sick. For most of the day there I just wasn't feeling it. But eventually I convinced myself to try it to some degree because I knew if I went home without opening anyone I'd be disappointed at myself for blowing an opportunity, even if I justifiably felt like crap. So to make sure I gave a bare minimum effort I created a game to open/approach just 10 girls. Happy to say I got it done. It seemed a little challenging... People weren't really standing around putting themselves out there to meet new people. Either they were standing/sitting at the stage watching a band, or they were walking on a mission to go somewhere, like to get food, use the bathroom, or meet their friends somewhere. I don't know if what I saw is accurate or if it's just the approach anxiety talking and I'm being a bitch, but it just didn't seem like girls were in the mood to stop and chat.

For the approaches/opens I did do, I figured the easiest way to do this was to post up at a part with constant traffic walking by, then if a cute girl walked by, say something and see if she would stop and chat. And that's what I did. I stood there chatting with my friends then when I'd spot a cutie, I'd try to open her. My opens were either complimenting one of her pieces of clothing, asking about it, or asking if we knew each other because she looks familiar. The results were about what you'd expect. Of the 10 girls I opened, most weren't interested. I think I counted 2 who were. One wanted to stop and chat but she was leading her group of five friends somewhere so they yelled at her to keep moving. The other one went okay. We connected on Facebook so we'll see if anything comes of it. She didn't seem into me so my guess, based on all my experience, is nothing will come from it.

Today I fully took the day off to relax and hopefully get over this illness. As for my goals for this week, I want to try making my focus on getting feedback from my female friends. Perhaps they can identify my weaknesses with vibe/attraction. Or if I have any other quirks that are just killing my attractiveness.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:19 am

Good job man!!

Idk if there's something wrong with me, but cold approaching is hard af to me.

You made it seem as simple as ever and just did it like nothing, props!

You talked to 10 girls that quick, you could easily get to 100 a week if you wanted to.

Damn, I gotta find a way to make it easy for myself as well because that was motivating.

Good job man.




ElderPrice wrote:3/31/19

Started getting a little sick this weekend so I didn't have as much gusto as normal.

Friday I had an art class and went dancing. The art class was a one time class that a friend got me for Christmas. Basically a 'paint this and take it home' type of thing. I was curious if there would be any girls there. Whenever you google shit like "where to meet girls," every single list has "classes" on it. I've always thought this had to be bullshit. Just too low volume, right? I think it's much better to go meet girls at a high volume place. Then you don't have to hope that the 1 attractive, single, your age girl in the class of 30 likes you or not. Even though this is just a sample size of 1, my suspicions were correct hahaha. The class was exclusively couples and the vast majority were over 50. A dud as far as meeting girls goes.

Nothing to report from dancing. I just did that for fun. Didn't meet too many new girls.

Saturday I tried some day game. I went to a music festival with friends. Dealt with a little approach anxiety. It was tougher since I was doing this while feeling a little sick. For most of the day there I just wasn't feeling it. But eventually I convinced myself to try it to some degree because I knew if I went home without opening anyone I'd be disappointed at myself for blowing an opportunity, even if I justifiably felt like crap. So to make sure I gave a bare minimum effort I created a game to open/approach just 10 girls. Happy to say I got it done. It seemed a little challenging... People weren't really standing around putting themselves out there to meet new people. Either they were standing/sitting at the stage watching a band, or they were walking on a mission to go somewhere, like to get food, use the bathroom, or meet their friends somewhere. I don't know if what I saw is accurate or if it's just the approach anxiety talking and I'm being a bitch, but it just didn't seem like girls were in the mood to stop and chat.

For the approaches/opens I did do, I figured the easiest way to do this was to post up at a part with constant traffic walking by, then if a cute girl walked by, say something and see if she would stop and chat. And that's what I did. I stood there chatting with my friends then when I'd spot a cutie, I'd try to open her. My opens were either complimenting one of her pieces of clothing, asking about it, or asking if we knew each other because she looks familiar. The results were about what you'd expect. Of the 10 girls I opened, most weren't interested. I think I counted 2 who were. One wanted to stop and chat but she was leading her group of five friends somewhere so they yelled at her to keep moving. The other one went okay. We connected on Facebook so we'll see if anything comes of it. She didn't seem into me so my guess, based on all my experience, is nothing will come from it.

Today I fully took the day off to relax and hopefully get over this illness. As for my goals for this week, I want to try making my focus on getting feedback from my female friends. Perhaps they can identify my weaknesses with vibe/attraction. Or if I have any other quirks that are just killing my attractiveness.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:38 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:Good job man!!

Idk if there's something wrong with me, but cold approaching is hard af to me.

You made it seem as simple as ever and just did it like nothing, props!

You talked to 10 girls that quick, you could easily get to 100 a week if you wanted to.

Damn, I gotta find a way to make it easy for myself as well because that was motivating.

Good job man.

Wow thanks man! Glad that my update helped. I thought it was a rather weak update!

Nope, nothing wrong with you. Cold approaching is notorious for its difficulty haha. As a matter of fact, I'm curious if what I did even counts as cold approaching! I felt like I was cheating since I wasn't really walking up and approaching anyone... I let them walk in front of me hahaha. I've seen that idea on other sites and I think I've seen it in an article or two here... about the importance of location at a venue. Like if you're going to be standing still, you want it to be at a spot where the traffic is flowing so people can see you as they walk by.

One thing though: It wasn't as fast as I made it sound! It took me 2 hours give or take to get to 10 opens. Not everyone that walks by is a cute, single, approachable girl in my age group!

Next time you're out at a packed venue and you want to chill for a bit, try posting up at a busy traffic section. Should be easier than walking back and forth throughout the venue physically chasing girls.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby fog » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:50 pm

yo did you try out any of my suggestions?
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:07 pm

fog wrote:yo did you try out any of my suggestions?

Some, yes. For the ones I didn't, it's not that I chose not to try them out, it's that I can only hold 2, mayyyyybe 3 mental notes or cues at a single time. Every time I go out, there's 2-3 things I'm focusing on or frames that I'm trying to remember to actively hold. I just can't remember a lot of things to try at once. Of your suggestions, here are the ones I noticed here and there throughout the weekend:

observe the way you move, your vocal tones, facial expressions, and all other parts of your behavior. is this behavior confident or unconfident? dominant or submissive?

To the best of my knowledge I'm doing these things confidently.

observe other people. is that person confident or unconfident? dominant or submissive? what makes them that way? are you perhaps displaying the same behaviours as that person?

This is easy to see. Many other guys have a loud/drunk/tough guy vibe about them which is obviously a more dominant vibe. I'm definitely not the same. Maybe I look a little tough standing still because I have some muscles, but probably not. I don't think I'm capable of being loud. I seem to have a very weak voice, even after reading a lot about voice projection and I've even seen a vocal coach to see if they could offer any tips. They said I seemed to be as loud as I could be and I'm not all that different from others. I don't really believe the latter part.

start observing your thoughts in interactions. do you feel the girl is higher value than you?

This is hard to do since my brain power is focused on the interaction. But I can say no, I do not feel as if the girl is higher value than me. Honestly, I don't really think about value. I don't think her as higher value, I don't think of me as higher value. I just think we're two humans. I'd be happy to try consciously thinking of myself as higher value, but that's just another of 1 million frames to hold during an interaction. I need to commit to, say, two frames to consciously hold throughout the day/night. Anything more than that and I won't remember.

believe you are higher value than every person you talk to. believe you are the coolest person to ever walk this planet. believe you are a rockstar.

This is the only one of your suggestions I didn't do this weekend. Again I didn't choose to not do it, I just couldn't hold on to a lot of active thoughts. Between checking out this venue I hadn't been to before, finding my friends, hanging with them, listening to some music, finding food, trying not to get sun burned, etc. it was just too much to hold frames. Also again, I can do better at this and this isn't the first time I've thought this. I need to keep practicing holding on to some active frames.

I've thought before that I may have gone too far with the DNGAF mindset. I've considered that I've taken it so far that I don't care enough to take hold of any frames. I've thought that I should change this and try caring a little more... by actually holding on to frames all day/night, such as "I am a rockstar." Does this make sense what I'm trying to say here? Another thing to work on.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:30 pm

ElderPrice wrote:Girls never approach me, even if Iʼm in the best mood ever.

Yeah, thatʼs normal. They expect the guy to do it. Iʼve probably only had it happen maybe 10 times or so in my whole life, and most of those times came from either (i) really eye‑catching style, (ii) being involved in events of an ethnic minority Iʼm not myself part of — so a lot of novelty, — or most often both. Ironically, none of those times went down nearly as well as some of the times Iʼve approached, but thatʼs partly due to errors on my part, and partly just numbers. When most interactions strike out, you need a lot of them in order to win. So yes, as you say, be proactive about it!


Regarding the concert. Itʼs a good start. Itʼs about twice as many approaches as Iʼve ever done in a single outing... but then, I disdain the local demographic.

That was and can be a good experience, but you may also want to try expanding out to more “mundane” environments. It was sort of day game, in that it was in the daytime, but socially that type of venue has more in common with club game — drinking, girls trying to be the center of attention, larger sets of girls out with their clique in a social mode, etc. Itʼs still a lot different than stopping a girl at a bus stop or café or supermarket — things I would normally associate with day game (and isnʼt always necessarily even in daylight — itʼs more a distinction of social mode than time‑of‑day). And yes, that takes super balls!

If either one of the following is true, I wouldnʼt strictly speaking call it day game: (i) there are dudes with alcohol in them nearby, or (ii) itʼs somewhere people would typically think to go to meet new people.

Cheers,
Phoenix
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:40 pm

ElderPrice wrote:Many other guys have a loud/drunk/tough guy vibe about them which is obviously a more dominant vibe. Iʼm definitely not the same.

Quick thought experiment.

Who would you see as more dominaint? A loud/drunk/tough guy in the bar? Or the President of the U.S.A., sitting quitely in his chair?

(Well, the current U.S. president isnʼt exactly what I had in mind, but you get the idea.)
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:14 pm

ThePhoenix wrote:
ElderPrice wrote:Girls never approach me, even if Iʼm in the best mood ever.

Yeah, thatʼs normal. They expect the guy to do it. Iʼve probably only had it happen maybe 10 times or so in my whole life, and most of those times came from either (i) really eye‑catching style, (ii) being involved in events of an ethnic minority Iʼm not myself part of — so a lot of novelty, — or most often both. Ironically, none of those times went down nearly as well as some of the times Iʼve approached, but thatʼs partly due to errors on my part, and partly just numbers. When most interactions strike out, you need a lot of them in order to win. So yes, as you say, be proactive about it!


Regarding the concert. Itʼs a good start. Itʼs about twice as many approaches as Iʼve ever done in a single outing... but then, I disdain the local demographic.

That was and can be a good experience, but you may also want to try expanding out to more “mundane” environments. It was sort of day game, in that it was in the daytime, but socially that type of venue has more in common with club game — drinking, girls trying to be the center of attention, larger sets of girls out with their clique in a social mode, etc. Itʼs still a lot different than stopping a girl at a bus stop or café or supermarket — things I would normally associate with day game (and isnʼt always necessarily even in daylight — itʼs more a distinction of social mode than time‑of‑day). And yes, that takes super balls!

If either one of the following is true, I wouldnʼt strictly speaking call it day game: (i) there are dudes with alcohol in them nearby, or (ii) itʼs somewhere people would typically think to go to meet new people.

Cheers,
Phoenix

Hey man. Definitely agree that it was sort of day game. I think in my post I even called it cheating. Haha.

I'll keep trying to do more legit day game. I just hate the lack of volume. It annoys me. Haha.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:24 pm

ThePhoenix wrote:
ElderPrice wrote:Many other guys have a loud/drunk/tough guy vibe about them which is obviously a more dominant vibe. Iʼm definitely not the same.

Quick thought experiment.

Who would you see as more dominaint? A loud/drunk/tough guy in the bar? Or the President of the U.S.A., sitting quitely in his chair?

(Well, the current U.S. president isnʼt exactly what I had in mind, but you get the idea.)

Interesting question. Depends on your exact parameters for the thought experiment. On one hand, the POTUS is always the center of attention wherever he goes. He's a celebrity with tons of security. In that regard, he's always going to be the dominant one. On another hand, I'm assuming a loud/drunk/tough guy could beat the shit out of most presidents, if for no other reason because presidents are often old. I wonder who would be the last president who could kick your ass while they were in office. Teddy Roosevelt? Now that's a thought experiment!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ThePhoenix » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:53 am

ElderPrice wrote:I think in my post I even called it cheating. Haha.

I thought that was the standing in one place part..  ;)

Which btw is probably not a bad thing at all, except that in most day game scenarios, it may not be an easy thing to do smoothly!

ElderPrice wrote:Iʼll keep trying to do more legit day game. I just hate the lack of volume. It annoys me. Haha.

For volume, research, experiment, and be creative. I may have missed what is the population where you live; if itʼs really low you may benefit from moving.

Do you have access to any malls around one million square feet or more? I find those work (comparatively) well for me, because thereʼs typically a lot of traffic. (Usually itʼs so‑so during weekdays, but picks up around 4pm through 7pm and then peters out a little until close; but I typically go 2pm until close, just to warm up and get more economy of scale. And weekends are good, although for me they close earlier. Obviously this will vary with specific locations, so itʼs a matter of hanging out at different times and days and seeing whatʼs best.) Another good thing is that itʼs compartmentalized. The one I usually do has eight corridor segments, then of course all the stores, and three big box stores with one or two floors each. The idea here is that you donʼt have to worry so much about bystanders thinking youʼre doing serial approaches, lol. Just do one approach in one place and then a very brief walk and youʼre in a different spot not visible to the same people.

Another thing about a big mall is that there are a lot of typically young women working in the stores. Hitting on them is somewhat cheating, but it can help you to build some confidence. Just be aware that they get hit on a lot more (because it isnʼt as scary), so while theyʼre nearly guaranteed to be friendly — itʼs their job, — they may not close as easily. But I have had several such approaches go pretty good and got a date from one. For me, I found that at first it was a hell of a lot easier to hit on store workers than randoms, but as I got more used to approaching and also because I tend to stick to the same mall out of convenience, I started to flip around and now I find approaching the store workers harder because Iʼm aware of their scarcity and also donʼt want to blow my most fertile venue.

But thatʼs just one idea. Tons of ideas if you live in a sizeable city, and whatʼs best will depend on the city and also your style. Another might be to walk around the streets of a university campus, though that could take more care as you donʼt want to draw too much attention.

ElderPrice wrote:On one hand, the POTUS is always the center of attention wherever he goes. Heʼs a celebrity with tons of security. In that regard, heʼs always going to be the dominant one. On another hand, Iʼm assuming a loud/drunk/tough guy could beat the shit out of most presidents, if for no other reason because presidents are often old.

Iʼm thinking you have a limiting belief, in which you equate dominance with popularity, attention, and/or physical toughness — which is a bad conceptualization for someone who is not naturally extroverted.

Maybe POTUS wasnʼt the best example, but another might be a mafia boss. Well, he does get attention too, but Iʼm more interested in his behaviour, not his popularity or the attention heʼs getting. Think about how he acts. He can just speak one word and youʼre dead. Do you think he raises his voice and acts rowdy? He doesnʼt need to. The loud drunk is the way he is because he has nothing else. In a way, heʼs insecure; not like the mafia boss at all.

Dominance means you get your way.

A practical example of dominance would be when Seppuku gets up on a date and simply tells the girl theyʼre going to go listen to some music. Here he is not even asking her, he is simply directing her to do as he pleases. She is, of course, free to refuse, but his behaviour simply assumes that she wonʼt, because he is so used to getting his way with women. That is dominance.

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