fog talks about women



Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:00 pm

Rachel Came Over Tonight

I didn’t text Rachel back after she told me how much she liked my sober shenanigans. Today, she sends me a selfie of her. Then, I get a text from her.

Rach: I saw you


What I ended up finding out was that she saw me daygaming at the school. I was working on this black girl who had previously been looking at me like I was a piece of meat. She was giving me an awfully hard time. Wouldn’t let me take down her number….refused to make plans with me…And then I was like…

fog: wait….you’re single right…?
Girl: no i have a boyfriend.


That explained some things. After that I kept pushing for a close, but she was having none of it! In fact, her body language started to get negative. I mirrored it. When I got the text from Rachel, I was unsure of the part that she saw. Did she see me and the black girl having negative body language towards each other? Or did she see it at the start, when the body language was good? This situation could have been good preselection.

So anyways, after Rach texts me that she saw me, I knew I hadda ask her to hang out:

Rach: i saw you
fog: nice :)
fog: what are you up to this week
Rach: blablablabla
Rach: what about yourself
fog: sick i got some things planned
fog: I’m thinking we need to get together sometime soon
Rach: when would you like to
Rach: i could maybe come hangout after this class if youre free
fog: what time is that at, 6pm?
Rach: yes
fog: hmmm yea i can make that work
Rach: busy guy eh
fog: I will see you around 6 rach
Rach: ok i will walk over i cant stay long though


She made it really easy. And she’s saying she can’t stay long. Well that was fine with me because I was excited to implement my new 10 minute rule. But I was a little worried, because I was not very horny, and I was placing a ton of pressure on myself to bang her. Because I felt like it was a do or die situation.

Shortly before 6 she walks into my house and plops herself on my couch. She starts telling me she saw me talking to the black girl. She wonders who it was. I tell her it’s a friend of a friend. A mutual friend! Well then she starts talking about the friends she was with when she saw me. She said her friends said they knew me because they met me at a party, and got a picture with me where they were both kissing my cheeks. I am more than happy about the preselection.

For anyone interested, here is the field report from that party: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11327&start=200#p87691

Yes, rach and i were kissing within 10 minutes. Did I bang her? Nooooo….but I sure as heck did get further than last time. She was giving me a lot of resistance, but I kept pushing, and man WAS I SAVAGE AS HECK. i ordered her around and got her to do whatever i wanted. She was complaining how aggressive I was. But she didn’t complain when I flipped her on her belly, spanked her a bunch, ate her ass, stuck some fingers in her pussy and licked her clit.

I’m curious as to what she expected to happen when she came over. When I first started paying attention to her pussy, she didn’t seem wet at all. And while she was giving me resistance, she kept texting her mom. and she was texting her friend too, because she was finalizing her dinner plans. Well no wonder she couldn’t get in the mood.

She was giving me a ton of tests too, which were nothing but a mere annoyance to me. Here’s some:

- During her resistance, she was telling me I seemed frustrated.
- She was mocking the fuck out of me. When I said something, even if it was normal, she would say the same thing I just said in a really high pitched annoying voice.
- When I would hold her hands down, she started mocking me saying "oh you think you’re such a tough guy”
- She kept saying she could beat me up. I told her that she CANNOT beat me up, even if she tried. She asked me how I knew. I just gave off this dismissive vibe. I take self defense classes, but she doesn’t need to know that yet
- I took my shirt off, and she looks at me and says “You’re so little.”
- She’s got this thing with my height. Won’t stop telling me how she’s taller than me or trying to compare our height.
- She blamed ME for not texting her to hang out for 3 weeks. She complained how I never reply to her snaps. Typical girl.

It is clear to me that a lot of this is her trying to get a rise out of me. But the interesting thing is how she is testing my masculinity and dominance. Why is she so obsessed with trying to be dominant over me….it’s a huge power struggle it seems like. I wish she would just submit to me! I mostly reply to her tests by being amused or giving her a neutral face.

Some of the more interesting parts:

Rach: you haven’t seen anything yet (while I was eating her ass)


She was projecting into the future again, saying she will wear heels the next time she comes over. Just her general vibe was like, we’re seeing each other. And she seems to be quite intrigued by me. She’s amazed by how mysterious and weird I am.

I did take a little attainability hit towards the end. We were talking, she started being curious about how many girls I’ve been talking to. i told her I wake up covered in 6 girls every day.

Immediately after that she gets really grumpy and dismissive! I thought it was so interesting to see this happen. The damage done to my attainability was immediate and apparent. Chase’s advice on how to resolve a situation like this would have helped, but I couldn’t recall it at the time. Maaan, managing attainability is such a drag…….sometimes these sorts of comments i make really just make my job harder.

I felt a little worried because I didn’t want her to leave grumpy. I started showing her some of my facial expressions. She absolutely loved my agreeable/cute and sexy face, and started giggling a lot. Then I tried out some emotional cementing.

fog: we have laughed a lot today
Rach: i always laugh. even when i am alone. I am weird


Sooo… I guess it didnt really work.

She leaves, telling me to text her. I will likely not be texting her, and will wait till she texts me. Besides, I realized I’m not that into her….the chemicals that were released into my brain the last time we hang out, tricked me into thinking she’s prettier than she is. Hm, maybe I’m backwards rationalizing.

My First real Bus Approach

Today a girl and I on the bus locked eyes. I had a serious face on. She looked down. We locked eyes again, this time I smiled at her. Wanted to raise my attainability.

Then shortly after she takes off her earphones:

Bus Girl: You’re spilling your coffee!


I look down. My coffee was dripping all over the bus floor. We had a good laugh over that. Then she put her earphones back in and was bobbing her head all around while sneaking glances at me. Lol.

Bus approaches make me uncomfortable. So I wrote down my number on a piece of paper, and gave it to her. We locked eye contact again and smiled, as if it was a mutual agreement that we would get to know each other through text. After that I ignored her.

Before I got off, more eye contact with her. I smiled at her again and she gave me a weird uncomfortable polite smile. Hm…...

…..No text from her yet….I think the “4” in my phone number looked a little bit too much like a 9. Either that or I handled the aftermath of giving her my number wrong. This was a really fun situation.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Daygame is becoming pretty magical lately.

Today a girl and I made eye contact, so I walked up to her and started hitting on her. She asked me to sit down with her, and I was surprised when she started hitting on me back! It was really nice and cool.

I also made my first ever gym approach today. For the longest time I was scared to approach at the gym. But indirect approaches are just so ridiculously easy, and the approach invitations are plentiful every time I go, so how could I not do it now?

I seem to be hooking girls instantly/close to instantly lately, but only when I hit the right vibe. They can’t stop giggling when this happens. The ones that aren’t hooking, are not because of some conversational friction on my part.

Prostitute Alert

The other day I was in a tim hortons and I saw a girl wearing fishnets at a table. Man, fishnets turn me on, and we looked at each other so:

fog: hey
girl: hey
fog: youre single right?
girl: yes


I eject to get a coffee and bagel. I walk back up to her:

fog: whatre you up to
girl: I’m working

Working? In fishnets and a semi-suggestive outfit in the middle of the day while sitting at a table…definitely a prostitute. We had a brief conversation, I wasn’t really interested in getting her number, but as I was walking away:

girl: whats your name again?
fog: *walks back* fog


And then we get into another conversation that makes her intrigued about me. I ask for her number:

fog: we definitely need to hang out sometime
girl: yea we should chill, ill come over and we can watch a movie or something


...I bet what happens during that movie will cost me $300. Probably not gonna bother with this one.

Party Fakers

Over the weekend I was at a party and the majority of girls there had boyfriends. It was annoying to me - I would get them hooked ridiculously quick, but then their boyfriend would get all jealous and start intruding.

In one case, this girl glanced at me a few times. Later we were in a group conversation, and she was pretending to ignore me. It was so obvious that she was trying to hide her interest. However later in a conversation between me, her and her boyfriend, she really warmed up and was subtly chasing me. So what should I do in future situations like this…slip her my number on a piece of paper? isolate her somehow?

Gym Staff Girl Thaws Out

I’ll call her Rock. When I first started going to the gym last year, Rock (a staff member) was looking at me a few times. But I never talked to her, and she transitioned into pretending I didn’t exist.

But the other day I talked to her for the first time. I built some basic rapport. I’m attracted to her but she seems to be really bland. And she’s got sort of a deeper voice. And i dont know….when I start wondering if she’s socially experienced or not, the voice in my head tells me no. All of this is a big turn off. But I like her face! And she’s real short too. :)

After my workout, I went up to the desk and started chatting with her again. She propped her elbows on the desk, and put her face in her hands. I thought that body language was interesting. She was basically leaning in, full attention on me. I started doing some non-verbal flirting, and she had a neutral reaction to it.

Next time I see her I will be more aggressive with my intentions.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:57 pm

Met this quirky art girl the other day, and in the middle of our conversation she exclaims in disbelief:

Art Girl: ARE YOU FLIRTING WITH ME?
fog: what do you think? :)


She says she’s pretty busy with midterms right now but I’m hoping to see her when she’s got some free time. I love how nervous she was around me.

My Coworker Exhibits Interesting Behaviour

Walked into work today, and a girl was working who I rarely see. Our very first interaction ever a while back was a bit of banter. I could not keep up with it and actually made a fool of myself, as much as I hate to say it. After that, she started talking to me in a sort of condescending tone of voice. Clearly she thought she was in charge of me, perhaps banter skills are the main thing she evaluates when choosing a mate.

Well I’ve seen her a few times since then and I’ve had the opportunity to at least establish myself as an equal to her.

So today I walked into work as I said, and my boss (who’s a girl, and flirts at me quite a lot, even though she has a boyfriend) walks over to me and is giving me a lot of attention. Definitely some preselection, of sorts. My boss starts involving the coworker in the convo, and soon I am bantering and being super ultra witty. The conversation ends - I start browsing around the store, doing some shopping. My coworker starts floating around me and coming very close to me, multiple times.

Her and I get in a conversation, and her full attention is on me. I tell her I have to tell her something. She wants to know, but I refuse to tell her till later. She walks back to the cash. For the rest of the time I am there, I say some stuff to her twice, and she replies in one word answers.

Very very weird….my lack of investment in the conversation, and my unwillingness to comply to her request to tell her what was on my mind, made her withdraw her investment in me after she put herself out there. Next time I see her I will crush her with my overwhelming confidence. It would be such a sick comeback from the time she thought she was the boss of me.

My BOSS Exhibited Some Interesting Behaviour Too

Alright so while all this was going on, something very strange happened with my boss. We’re talking about my other job, and I’m telling her how it’s not challenging for me and I can do it in my sleep:

boss: does the work you do for us challenge you?
me: sorta. (the true answer is no, and I bet she could sense my insincerity)


Right after I answer, she starts twirling her hair with a soft look on her face. What the heck. My best guess is that, as my boss, she is in control of me, but if I am bored with the work she is giving me, then that relinquishes some of the control she has over me, makes me more of an equal to her, which turns her on.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:19 pm

Working on a Sexual Voice

In Chase’s article, “Tactics Tuesdays: 4 Tips to Handle Conversations in Groups” he lays out the differences between a friendly conversation and interested/intimate conversation. One of the differences he mentions is the tone of voice. Interested/intimate conversations consist of down tones, while friendly conversations consist of up tones.

This opened up a door for me. I never really knew how to convey a sexy tone of voice to someone that showed I was interested. And at the same time, I was being friendly with my voice without even realizing it!

So now whenever I wanna be friendly, I use a lot of uptones. And if I wanna be sexy, I use downtones. I started practising recently by calling girls on the phone that I have already had sexual relationships with. A little bit of purr and some down tones can really make the conversation sexual, even if you’re just talking about regular shit! And if she responds by talking in the same way, then everythings golden….

The phone was a good place to try this out first because that sort of interaction is primarily voice based. I will start trying this out in person too.

A Turned On Girl at The Gym

I saw this girl at the gym, she had the nicest ass I’ve ever seen. I actually got half a boner from looking at it. That never happens.

I’m at the weight rack, and I’m thinking about what weight to grab. She comes up:

Girl: are you taking this one?
Fog: yes
Girl: Omg I am soo sorry (won’t stop giggling)
Fog: I will let you know when I am done
Girl: OK! (more giggling, walks away)


Huh, interesting. Later after I'm done with the weight, I go and find her. She continues her giggling fit and starts apologizing profusely about how rude it was of her to try to take the weight I was going to use. I smiled and went along with it. I got her name and called her silly, then walked away.

Later I am walking around the gym with my friend (who has been mentoring me a little bit) and I see this girl again out of the corner of my eye, on one of the machines. She is looking in my direction and has a very turned on look on her face.

For the rest of the time I am there, she is floating near me giving me approach invitations, and even starts dancing at one point....clearly to get my attention.

Well I was really confused about what to do....I really wanted to be direct with her, but at the same time I read an article on GC that suggests that you be indirect and build up a relationship over time.

Since I left the interaction on a little bit of an emotional high in my opinion, I decided to just let it be, and wait till I see her next time before I continue flirting. Maybe I could have developed more rapport with her...I seem to be ejecting too early lately, which will need to be fixed.

Daygame Sticking Points

As mentioned, I am ejecting too early. But another problem is that I am getting a bit of approach anxiety in unfamiliar environments. On the street, in post-secondary schools, in stores, I have no problem approaching. But as soon as I get into a place like a small coffee shop, I get a ton of anxiety. I am worried about what people will think, and there is virtually no privacy. These uncertain feelings are normal. I remember when i was scared to do any approaches at the gym. But now that I have a few gym approaches under my belt, it's no big deal, especially if I'm being indirect. I'll have to do some coffee shop approaches, because today I missed out on a huge approach invitation because of it...this girl was quite flustered by my presence, but I still didn't say hello. It feels terrible. I always get mad when I mess up like this, and ruminate a whole 5 minutes on the girl before I find a new girl to focus on. :)
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby kristian » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:08 am

Well I was really confused about what to do....I really wanted to be direct with her, but at the same time I read an article on GC that suggests that you be indirect and build up a relationship over time.


I would have just go direct and asked her if she wanted to do something after the workout or just traded numbers. Gym-approaches can be fun!
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Hue » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:13 pm

Well I was really confused about what to do....I really wanted to be direct with her, but at the same time I read an article on GC that suggests that you be indirect and build up a relationship over time.


I try not to be too dogmatic about advice I read, especially when I haven't tested it.

The reason the "How to get girls at the gym" article recommends that is because the gym is essentially a social circle. In social circle there are already existing dynamics, there are many expectations and norms for that environment so the slower approach is sometimes more effective than one you might do in say, a day game cold approach.

When a girl is sending you clear signals, it's almost always worth exploring. It sounds like she was - I'd have tried to set up plans for that night or that week.

I don't know if you remember Slay, but I'm pretty sure he had an insta-lay after walking out of the gym to a hot girl also leaving. Anything's possible. Trust your instincts.


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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:33 pm

hi friends

kristian wrote:I would have just go direct and asked her if she wanted to do something after the workout or just traded numbers. Gym approaches can be fun!


good to see you back kristian and thanks for your input. you're right they can be fun - maybe in the future we can meet up and hit on thirsty broads? The gym will be one of our first stops.

Hue wrote:I try not to be too dogmatic about advice I read, especially when I haven't tested it.


Hue wrote:Trust your instincts.


Hue you have laid down everything I needed to hear in a minimal amount of words. You would not believe the silly mistakes i made recently because I was ignoring my instincts and paying strict attention to logic/gc advice.

Hue wrote:I don't know if you remember Slay


ya where did that guy go? he was nice to have around
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Hue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:19 pm

Glad I could help bro. Judging from some of your other post about your adventures I had a feeling you may have been letting abstracts start to put up red tape with your intuition. I know I still struggle with that here and there.

As far as Slay, I believe he said he was giving up the internet. He wanted to totally "unplug" for some reason. I've been unplugged for a few weeks before and it actually is quite enjoyable. Maybe someday he'll return with tales of the real world.


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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:40 pm

I'm focussed on moving to Toronto right now so I'm not actively making time to approach. I still do approaches when I'm doing errands and stuff though, if the opportunity presents itself. More on the Toronto move later...today I wanted to talk about 2 cool and super important things i'm excited about.

New Body Language Technique - The Contrapposto Pose

I was browsing through chateau heartiste’s body language tips and he suggested using the contrapposto pose as a way to stand.

I was excited to learn this because….WELLL….I never really thought about my strategy for standing! In the comments section of the CH article on this pose, one of the commenters mentioned that this is a good way to stand because it conveys that you’re relaxed.

I have been experimenting and observing the way people stand.

Building More and Better Emotional Connections

A big focus of mine lately has revolved around the quantity and quality of emotional connections I can build. Interestingly, talking to women has become a lot more fun...and it feels better too. Here are several sub-areas I'm working on:

Us Vs. The World Mentality

I’m a short guy, so when I’m talking with a short girl, we talk about how we have to climb up on the counters to get food. Then i start talking about how the tall people around us will never know what its truly like to have to do that. This is an example of the us vs. the world THING I have started using. I use it whenever I have something in common with the girl.

Relating

I removed the act of relating to what the girl is saying with my own experiences a while back. I think I did it because I didn’t wanna come across like i was trying too hard... something like that. But I brought it back, and it feels so natural and right. I can't believe how big of a gamechanger this is gonna be.

No More Pushes

I have sent hundreds of girls into auto rejection because I started using pushes before they have hooked. Idk why i pushed so much. Obviously I didn't know how to use them right. I've eliminated pushing from my conversations and am focussed on pulls.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Today I will be talking about my upcoming move to Toronto, but first I will take a short detour to talk about something interesting that happened yesterday.

I made eye contact with a girl. We held it for a few seconds, then she looked downwards. The unusual part was the look that spread over her face as her head headed in the direction of the floor. She looked devastated....almost defeated....a look of instant auto rejection, I'm pretty sure. That's never happened before.

Some tweaks to my walk, fashion, and default facial expression really seem to be netting me some extra female attention lately. The approach invitations I am getting are ridiculous. However this doesn't mean shit, because I have no tangible results (like getting laid) to show for it.

Moving to Toronto

May 1st I will be moving to Toronto. I will be living with a friend of mine who happens to be a hot blonde. This'll be so sick...I don't think I need to cover the benefits for me. :)

She's always telling me about the guys who talk to her. She says she has dozens and dozens of guys messaging her who are willing to take her out when she gets to Toronto. Sometimes she tells me about the things they say to her. And the things they say, I find downright uncalibrated..like putting her on a pedestal when they haven't even fucked her yet......implying that they find her really valuable.

Anyways, if she's got dozens and dozens of guys trying to hang out with her, I can definitely imagine why I've sent girls into auto rejection before so easily. Like, they wanna hang with the best of the best. Why would they put up with a guy who makes one mistake when they can easily replace him in 2 seconds with another guy who won't make a mistake? There's a post in the general forum right now by nothing003, and this sort of thing is why he got ghosted.

There are hipster girls galore in Toronto. i LOVE girls who are fashionable and aesthetic, and the majority of hipster girls are. This is a type of girl I will be working on specializing in. There’s a small hipster community where I live right now, but its awfully tough to find them and practise on them during the day. My style is firmly in the hipster territory as well which will make things easier.

My goal for this summer is 1000 approaches, and it will be ridiculously easy to accomplish this in Toronto.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:43 pm

Some Crazy Things I Learned

The past few days in Toronto were amazing. I was there solely for a job interview and to meet up with my future roommates to try to find a place to live, but I learned a lot about girls in the process.

I was at the bus station. I had just gotten into Toronto, and was standing near some seats. I was looking at google maps...then I looked up and I noticed an older lady sitting down really close to me. She was not looking at me. Her body was kinda turned towards me though, and her feet were definitely pointing at me. Hmmm? Approach invitation? I wasn't sure. But we all know that people point their feet towards wherever their attention truly is. During the rest of the trip, I was getting similar approach invitations from other older ladies. They would come hover near me, and point their feet directly at me, but they wouldn't be looking at me. I wonder if these instances were related...like is this a common way for older ladies to do their approach invitations? I don't believe I get the hover with feet pointing towards me from younger girls.

Next day, I was headed to my job interview. I was dressed up, quite fashionably too. It was a very long commute on the subway. On my way there, a few girls gave me looks of disgust. What the heck? BUT, I was getting approach invitations from 7s and 8s, which was mind blowing to me. Girls of this quality in my current city (which is way smaller than Toronto) would not give me any attention at all, even if I was wearing the same clothing. This really got me thinking about the importance of the environment. Is my sexual market value higher in Toronto? Are the girls just different in Toronto? Or, maybe perhaps, girls have a greater sense of their market value there, because there are soooo many ridiculously high value people in the city. I don't know...

Ahh, so I got to my job interview. The girl who was interviewing me, would be my boss if I got the job. There was quite a bit of sexual tension between me and her. She was giving me that knowing look and smile. If I get the job, I could definitely attribute it to the fact that she's attracted to me.

The day after that, I met up with my future roommates. I talked about one of them in my last post (the hot blonde). I'm going to call her Purple from now on. She brought the other person we're going to be living with, a guy named Chad. He looks like a stereotypical douchebag. He's jacked and he's really good looking. I learned something from watching him talk with Purple that will help me put together another piece of the puzzle in terms of developing my sexual vibe. I noticed he was using a lot of downtones in his voice, which made it quite sexual. But whenever he laughed, he also ended his laugh on a downtone - which made the laugh sexual and intimate. This was crazy to me. I never thought to think about whether my laugh was attractive or not. Guess I'll be practising my laugh the next few days...

Purple drove me home from Toronto, and along the way we stopped at a strip mall to get some food. We were in some burrito place (Chad was somewhere else getting food), and the girl cashier would not stop looking at me. Approach invitations from girls were quite amplified when I was with Purple. But that wasn't the interesting part. The interesting part was the facial expression of the girl cashier. She was giving me this apprehensive/remorseful/regretful look. I didn't think anything of it until a few minutes later..

Me and Purple met back up with Chad, and we're standing on the sidewalk. I looked through the window of a restaurant, and noticed an average looking girl giving Chad mad approach invitations. Just wouldn't stop looking at him. The look on her face? The EXACT same apprehensive/remorseful/regretful look that the girl cashier was giving me just two minutes earlier. It's apparent to me that this facial expression signals that a girl perceives whoever she's looking at to be above her league. I will use this knowledge in my future strategy...it is important to know how a girl is feeling before I approach her.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:03 pm

Fashion News

I’ve put together one outfit that is really killer. It consists of shiny black cap toe dress shoes, black socks, blue skinny jeans, a bright pink and purple striped tshirt, and a colorblocked leather bomber jacket.

The other day when I was wearing it, this old drunk lady came up to me and said I looked like a hockey player. I thought this was good news, because I probably look like a douchebag - while still retaining my vintage style.

The initial results seem to be pretty good. When I wear this, I get checked out more than ever before from both sexes. Whewww!!! I am thinking that the bomber jacket makes me look jacked as fuck, especially when paired with skinny jeans.

Speaking of Drunk Older Ladies…

Last night, a short 90 year old lady WITH NO TEETH offered to take me on a date and give me “something nice” for $5.

Unrelated but still funny: I was eating at a restaurant. A girl a few tables over was sneaking looks at me. Then she tilted her head back and dropped a LOOOONG ass piece of spaghetti slowly into her mouth. Then right after, she snuck another glance at me. I laughed pretty hard after that one.

Speaking of Shorter Girls…

I feel more dominant around short girls….like I feel like I’m able to impose myself on them easier. It’s not too often that I see a girl who’s shorter than me. But next time I see a short girl, I wanna analyze this mindset so I can apply it to taller girls/girls who are the same height.

I Lost a Challenge

The other day I was at the bus station, and I made eye contact with this girl. 15, 20 seconds goes by and we're still staring at each other. I have bad vision, and in my mind I was like, "WTF? IS THIS GIRL ACTUALLY LOOKING AT ME FOR THIS LONG? THIS NEVER HAPPENS for THIS long! what if she's not actually looking at me and she's just looking at something past my head? Oh my god, I should stop looking so I don't look like a creep." I broke eye contact, and rolled my eyes. I lost against her challenge. I haven't lost a challenge in ages! And yes afterwards I realized she definitely was looking at me because she kept giving me looks occasionally, and I even got a strong physical reaction out of her when i had to walk by her to get on the bus. I could see it out of the corner of my eye, her body got all startled.

Couple Mentality

The other day Chase wrote an article about the effect of group herding mindsets on dating and seduction. One thing that really stuck out to me was "couple mentality." It gave me further understanding into how to develop a relationship/connection with a girl and how to execute an "us vs. the world" sort of vibe. It's not really an "us vs. the world" thing. It's more like...we are in this together, making decisions as a unit.

In terms of compliance, successful compliance commands decrease attainability. Why? Hector doesn't mention in his article...but I think it might have to do with the fact that you're not including her in the decision. Now...on the other hand, successful compliance suggestions increase attainability - because you're including her in the decision. Compliance suggestions are great for developing a couple mentality and an overall connection I think. This is a new thought in my head, I'll continue to explore it.

Some Flirty Stuff

If a girl doesn’t hear you, or you said something raunchy, she might say what? And if she says what, then I’ll just turn it into more flirting. EXAMPLE:

Girl: What
Fog: What, WHAT?
Girl: Huh?
Fog: Your HUH hurts when I do WHAT? ;)

Success is Not a Mystery

The better i get, the more i understand WHY people have success. I can pick apart why they are so good with girls. For example, one of my best friends is great with girls…but I could never figure out why. Well I realized he’s really good at building relationships with girls. He's a slow burner kinda guy.

How To Be a Provider 101

To me it is so clear when girls are looking for a boyfriend. And it’s clear to me when they are inexperienced. And it's clear to me when they're quite sexual. I have to read up on girls with low lay counts, but I’m pretty sure that girls who are inexperienced equate sex with love. So inexperienced girls are probably more likely to be looking for a provider too.

One thing I’ve realized is that when girls are looking for a provider, you can’t get away with ignoring them. If you ignore them for a few days, they’ll get mad and auto reject. Providers do not ignore. So I made a slight change to the way I communicate with these girls. I’ve met a lot of them through tinder. I’ll make plans with them, then I’ll TELL THEM when I’ll text them next, and let them know I’m busy, so they don’t think I’m ignoring them or anything.

I met up in person with this one girl from tinder. Very clearly inexperienced, and very clearly looking for a boyfriend. My plan was to go to her house. Except she got off work late. By the time she was free to hang out, it was like 9PM and she still had to walk her dog. So I went on a walk with her and her dog, assuming we would go to her house afterwards.

When we met up, I was quite a bit shorter than her. I saw some sort of look of disapproval flash across her face. Well guess what? Instead of me going to her house, she sent me home cuz she had to do more work. Her having to work more was honest (I think). She kept getting phone calls from her boss while we were walking the dog, and she said he had to drop off a document to her.

We didn’t click, but we didn’t not click either. I haven’t heard back from her, and under the assumption that she’s looking for a boyfriend, i can say that I did not fit her qualifications for a provider. I bet she disqualified me based on my height.

Here were her emotions throughout:

- Little bit closed off (when we first met up)
- Excited and enthusiastic (after a few minutes of talking)
- Nervous (When I was leaving)

Why would she be nervous when I was leaving…? Maybe she was expecting a kiss or something, lol.

Using a Bored Tone of Voice

Recently on the phone with a tinder girl who lives outta town:

girl: you sound really condescending. like youre above everything.
me: what do you mean? do i sound really bored?
girl: yes.


I was drawling, not being very excited, using downtones, but really prolonging the vowel sounds.

Random Notes

- Sarcasm: How does it impact attainability?
- Sensed I was in the area, and decided to give me a deliberate look vs. Just scanning the environment and happened to notice me.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:44 pm

I remember several weeks ago when I started working on building more and higher quality connections with girls. I was so excited. Of course like any emotion, this excitement faded a bit as I practiced......but I incorporated some new connection-building techniques into my game last night that have me quite excited again. It involves mirroring.

Verbal Mirroring

I have started using trance words in my active listening. I am also mimicking the vocal tones girls are using.

At the gym today, I was talking with one of the girls who works the front desk. Over the past little while we have become pretty close - it started around the same I started working on connection building. Anyways, I would reply to her using the same vocal tones she used. I don't think she noticed. Would she have called me out on it if she did? Probably not....to her it probably just seems like we are just both similar! Honestly, it felt like a game to me. I was having a lot of fun talking to her....either because A) copying her like this is insane or B) her vocal tones are spontaneous and unpredictable, so when I started using these vocal tones, I got in the same sort of mood. This is powerful stuff.

Non-Verbal Mirroring

I have started mirroring the movements and gestures of girls. I would also like to mirror their breathing patterns, but this isn't as easy...

One thing I need to think about: if the girl displays poor body language, should I mimic that?

Mental/Emotional State Mirroring

Otherwise known as pacing, I guess. Basically, showing her that you understand her reality, and communicating that you’re in the same place as her emotionally. Haven't done it yet but I'll try it out tomorrow.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:40 pm

Sometimes I'll open a girl indirectly, and she'll respond well, but she'll start walking away slowly while still talking to me. She consciously doesn't realize that I'm trying to have a conversation with her and not just some 2 second friendly small talk as strangers pass each other on the street. I know this because I've done the exact same thing before.

I never had a solid strategy for overcoming this situation. Thinking back to the past, I would keep talking to them as they were walking away, so they would feel social pressure and stop. But today I think I came up with a better way.

At my college there is a hallway split up into three narrow lanes by handrails. I hope whoever designed this hallway was fired. Anyways, I was walking down the hallway in one lane, and there was this girl walking towards me in another lane. I opened her. We had a little chat, but she was not too engaged; partly due to the fact that my opener flopped. She started drifting away, and I randomly pulled out a tension lock:

fog: hey i just realized something about you
girl: what's that?
fog: you really care about people


At this point, she walks back towards me, is pretty hooked and starts pelting me with questions, wondering if I'm a psychic.

BUT, as I mentioned we were each in a narrow lane, and there were groups of students passing by us. She would keep turning her head to look at these students, to make sure she wasn't getting in the way. It prevented me from developing any sort of vibe with her, because she couldn't fully focus on the conversation.

This would have been a great opportunity to do some pacing, then transition into a compliance suggestion. For example:

fog: i know its sorta awkward that we almost keep getting run over, we should move somewhere over there.


I did NOT do any pacing or ask for any compliance, I was so focused on non-verbally mirroring her that it didn't come to my mind till after. -.-
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:42 pm

This journal entry is going to make me seem a little crazy.

Sexual Vibe: Another Piece to the Puzzle

I have been reading the posts from the old MASF forum where people like style and gunwitch hung out. Someone suggested that if you want to portray a sexual vibe, you should focus on kinaesthetic stimuli instead of visual stimuli. It’s important to focus on how your body is feeling in that very moment, rather than the way things look in the environment. I’ve been trying it out. I feel comfy and good a lot, and when I focus on my comfy feelings I naturally become more relaxed, my eyes droop, I just feel GOOD. I choose to perceive this good feeling as sexualness, and I can project it onto a girl.

Doggy Bowl Dinner Eyes: A Sign of Submission

Eyes are truly the window to the soul. I often see these beta guys who have very sparkly, wet eyes. They are the same eyes a girl gives me when she’s attracted to me. Why would beta guys and girls have these same eyes? The guy is not attracted to me, he’s simply just fearful and unconfident. But with the girls, they are attracted. The only common link is that there is submission involved. So, are doggy eyes not just a sign of attraction, but also a submission signal?

If fear is a byproduct of submission, then that’s why it’s so important to develop a connection with a girl. The fear has to be turned into feelings of safety before they will allow themselves to submit to you. It all makes sense! I will find out how to trigger feelings of safety. Obviously it’s different with every girl.

The Point of Eye Contact

I started looking at girls, not just to hold eye contact with them, but to hold eye contact with them and be aware that I'm dominating them with eye contact.. It was interesting - reactions became polarized, even though I was looking at girls the same amount of time as before. Some girls looked upwards (a sign of dismissiveness) and some got very turned on looks on their faces. Do girls perceive my eye contact differently when I hold eye contact with them without being aware that I'm dominating them vs when I choose to hold eye contact with them and be aware that I'm dominating them? i think so!

Microexpressions

There are subtle microexpressions that a girl makes when i look at her, but she is not looking at me and just senses it. If my look turns her on, she gets a submissive facial expression on her face.…its really hard to explain. Then I notice sometimes its the opposite. The girl will get a slightly annoyed look on her face. Pretty sure they're involuntary facial expressions, and they don't last long.

1000 APPROACHES UPDATE

I am moving to toronto may 1st for sure and my goal is a minimum of 1000 approaches over the next 4 months. This will be easily accomplishable by doing 10 approaches a day, but honestly in such a big city like toronto I will have the option of doing 20-30 a day or more which is super cool and nice.

Compliance Thoughts

The other day I was thinking about the proper way to respond to compliance requests from girls. So I did some digging around and found some answers from Chase and friends:

- If the girl is heavily invested in you, agree to her compliance request. This will raise your attainability and value.

- If the girl is not invested in you, and there’s the chance that you’re chasing her, do not accept her compliance request - deflect it/hoop it. Don’t say no, it will make you look bitter.

So then I was thinking..if a girl is trying to get compliance from you, you could try to get her to reduce the dominance of her attempt for compliance in order to force her into a more submissive position…would it be effective?

Here's a mock pretend example. In this scenario, the context is that I have been chasing a girl (highly unlikely in the real world lol), and now I try to change it around when she thinks she can boss me around:

Girl: Hold my purse. (demand)
Fog: ask me nicely. (also a demand)
Girl; can you hold my purse? (complies, reduces her demand to a request)
Fog: you should hold my jacket and i will (denying her compliance request, with a compliance suggestion)


PS. You can get dominance points around food service workers. I hear guys ask all the time:

Worker: What can i get for you?
Non-Dominant Guy: Can i please have two slices of pizza?


That’s lame. Here’s the right way to do it:

Worker: What can i get for you?
Dominant Guy: Two slices of pizza please.


Mirroring Thoughts

I’m thinking that it’s not good to mirror the body language of girls if they are exhibiting nervous body language. Rather, the only thing I should really mirror is their expressive body language: are they acting expressively, waving their hands around and stuff? If so, do that. If not, don’t mirror.

Body Language Improvements

i have started tightening up my body language so that it’s cool, smooth, flowy and sexy all the time, even in spontaneous situations. One of my best tips for myself is to pretend like I’m being watched by a really hot girl or that I’m on camera and theres 1000s of people watching me…all the time. For example, today I tried pushing open a door that was a pull door. Usually, this would get some sort of weird reaction out of me… like my default reaction is to jerk my body in this weird way. ITS TOUGH TO EXPLAIN. But I didn’t react at all, just simply and smoothly pulled the door open. All this rewiring of my body language is making me realize how inherently awkward the majority of my body language is. The way I move my body in situations other than walking and looking around is pretty gross.

But you start adding up all these little changes [to your body language] intended to emphasize alpha male characteristics, and suddenly you’re cooking with gas. - chateau heartiste

random notes on topics i am too lazy to write about right now

- i have been practising pacing. i'm a little rough around the edges
- i usually use questions in my active listening i.e. “so what you’re saying is that you dont like your mom?” but I am planning on using active listening statements instead i.e. “i can tell you really dont like your mom" ... seems more natural
- i am starting to practice the gunwitch method
- could mirroring lead to incongruence?
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue May 01, 2018 2:09 pm

Sorting Out Dates: Challenging In Toronto

I just moved to Toronto. I met a girl on tinder. Things have been going pretty well between me and her. She is making things pretty easy for me! She asked me to hang out first, gave me her number...Not a bunch of flirting or anything, but I did hint at public sex here:

Her: what sorts of things do you like to explore when you move to a new city? Maybe I can show you around
Fog: in terms of pg rated stuff, I like vintage stores, arts, concerts etc. I can trust my amazing new tour guide to show me that sort of stuff right? ;)
Her: Haha well I am pretty amazing :) *hair flips* If you don't mind me asking, what sorts of dirty bird places do you like to explore?
Fog: All the nooks crannies and secluded areas right the middle of the city. *smirking emoji*
Her: ah the good shit *smirking emoji*
Her: Text me when you move into your place in toronto and we can continue planning our adventure. ###-###-####


so now I'm trying to set up a time and date to meet up with her. Not only is toronto so big which makes things sort of a logistical nightmare for me, but I don't have a lot of experience with dates either. So I need some help. Here's the logistical convo between us:

Her: speaking of hanging out, when would you like to hang out? I'm a bit free this week if that works
Fog: what time do your night classes end on tuesday and thursday? :)
Her: They end at 9:30pm :)
fog: wow nice. okay i guess a better question would be...when is most convenient for you?
Her: After class isn't too bad for me cause I'm close to Neighborhood 1 which is a cool area, but I'm usually a bit tired after class. So I could meet up for a drink or something :) Wednesdays and Fridays are better for me in terms of day adventures. :)


Two options here:

A) Meet her on thursday night, after 930PM, for a drink.

The problem is that I don't drink, so would that be weird? She mentioned she's usually tired, which I think would get in the way of me pulling. At the same time, if she's tired and feeling calm, then I feel like I could install some good emotions in her and get a nice sexual vibe going.

Could potentially be an informative date too.

Maybe I could get her to meet me at a bar really close to my place? And my excuse could be that I am so lost. She mentioned neighbourhood 1 as a place to meet, but that's like a 20 minute ride car ride away..

B) Meet up with her on Friday during the day

She'd likely be in a normal mood. There would be no time constraints. I could do two venue changes, in order to build rapport. What if we met under the pretext it would be an "adventure" and she could show me around, but what I would do is get her to meet me near my place for lunch or a walk or something, work my magic, then pull her to my place?

I live on a busy street surrounded by restaurants, so I could get her to meet me on the street, and I could talk with her for 5 minutes there and gauge her interest level in me..if it's really high upon meeting her I could just be like "yo i forgot my ID at my place, lets go to my place for a sec and get it."
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed May 02, 2018 11:22 am

A Date with Kimono

Shortly after my last journal post, Kimono texts me and says:

Kimono: its super nice outside! id be down to get a drink tonight if youre free


I'm thinking that this chick is feening for me to hang out with her.

We agree to meet up at some japanese place. When I'm about 5 minutes away, I give her a call to let her know. We had not talked on the phone prior to this. I remember Hue mentioning he had done this before. I'm going to keep on calling girls shortly before we meet up, I feel like it's a great way to ease into the date.

It's a little loud at the japanese place so we go to a patio somewhere else. the whole time went alright, but I did not feel any sort of attraction towards her, nor any real desire to pull her. I think this was the part of the reason it took forever for her to emotionally hook. Anyways, her face was really stiff at first, and she was quite mellow. Eventually she started getting playful and her face stopped being so stiff...She started opening her mouth more and showing more of her teeth (a sign of submission?) Once she started getting playful, her vocal range and non-verbal expressions really opened up and I was able to mirror her a lot better, which led to us vibing pretty hard pretty quick. This would have been an opportune moment to do some verbal emotional cementing. I saw the waitress coming out of the corner of my eye - she talked to us and interrupted our bubble. The bubble was popped, and things just went downhill from here. I could have handled this by knowing how to deal with emotional cresting.

An interesting thing that happened was when I was telling her about how I hitch hiked somewhere. This is a story that conveys my adventurous side, but i'm not sure of it's value lately besides giving women an emotional reaction. I had been looking at her lips all night - she had no reaction to it, which was great. HOWEVER, during the hitch hiking story, which was filled with tales of danger and me upsetting my mom. I looked at her lips. All of a sudden, right when I did that, her face scrunched. It seems like that by doing this, I cemented sexual behaviour with the emotion she was feeling at the time (probably a negative one) in her mind. A bad idea. Now I'm thinking..I could use lip looks as an anchor of sorts. I should look at girls lips when talking about positive topics. I bet that if I look at a girls lips while talking about positive topics, then look at her lips later when the topic is more neutral, then I could get her feeling positive emotions.

Some of her stories seemed like routines...like they were canned material.. I knew they were routines because the way she told them seemed a little forced. Like she was reciting them from a script or something. This was very, very VERY interesting. I wonder how I picked up on this? Makes me worried about my own congruence, and how I can prevent others from feeling that “canned” feeling when i tell stories that i tell all the time.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu May 03, 2018 5:00 pm

Don't Be Abrupt

In marketing, we have a term called friction, which is the psychological resistance that your visitors experience when trying to complete an action. Friction is a conversion killer usually caused by unclear messaging, lack of information or poor layout. The goal when reducing friction is to make things as smooth as possible, and reduce the steps and mental load that a person has to take to buy something. Less steps is generally better.

This can easily be applied to seduction. In many different ways. I'll cover some RIGHT now.

Recently I mentioned that I'm going to start calling girls right before our date as a way to ease into it. With texting, there is no physical presence. She doesn't hear your voice or see your body language, she only sees words on a screen. Going from texting to meeting up in person can be rather abrupt. Now, all of a sudden, instead of words on a screen, there's a person with her. I feel like this is a huge step, and you can break it down into smaller simpler steps:

Texting -> Calling -> Meeting Up


When you call before meeting up, now it's not overwhelming for her because you've reduced the stimuli that is new to her upon meeting her. She's already heard your voice and vibe, and just has to deal with your physical presence now.

So what else?

- This is nothing new, and has obviously been covered before, but when you meet someone, you don't just dive into asking them deep questions right away. You need to ease into it, perhaps some small talk, first. Asking deep questions upon meeting someone is abrupt and shocking.

- Emotional cresting: Building up emotions really quickly, and going into a crest, then not being able to cushion them when they go into a trough. Going from feeling heavy emotions to no emotions is very abrupt.

- Using pushes. Using pushes incorporates friction into your interaction. I believe that pushing out of the blue can often be very abrupt and unsettling. Shouldn't you break pushes down into smaller steps and ease into it so it reduces the abrupt shock of when you push her away?

Pull - Pull - Pull - Neutral - Subtle non-verbal push - Subtle verbal push - Overt verbal push


- Sex talk/sexual vibe. I remember when I was volunteering for a B league hockey team. There was this old gross lady who would always go to the games. I would chat with her sometimes. She never had a sexual vibe towards me. One day, I'm talking to her, and she's acting normal. All of a sudden, she pulls out a strong sexual vibe towards me. I was not expecting it, it shocked me, I wasn't ready for it and it pushed me away. A person should ease into their sexual vibe, and give the other person time to get used to it.

Normal vibe - Lip looks and sexy smiles for a quick second - Normal Vibe - More lip looks, longer sexy smiles - Normal vibe with subtle sex talk - More sexual nonverbals - Normal vibe - Normal vibe with sex talk - Sexual vibe with sex talk


- This one's a little more abstract: getting to know a new person can be abrupt. Most people interact with people they already know, and people who know each other treat each other a different way than people who dont know each other treat each other. By treating a new person like you already know them (in a calibrated way - GUNWITCH METHOD) and hold the frame that you already know them, this can be less abrupt. Conversely, if you go into an interaction and pretend you already know them way too hard, the other person gets confused, creating friction.

These are the topics that I can name off the top of my mind, I know there's definitely more and will be looking to reduce friction in the future.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat May 05, 2018 11:03 am

Escalation With Pizzy Ends In Hives Episode

I met Pizz on tinder. Our conversation was quite, umm…drab…some small talk, nothing much. Her tinder profile says shes a goofy person, but she gave no indication of it through text. It was sort of tough to get a read on how she was feeling towards me and we didn’t really develop a connection through text. Here was something silly after I asked her to hangout:

Pizz: what are you on tinder for?
Fog: I’m open to anything
Pizz: anything?
Fog: anything


lOOOL anything except for butt pegging

She cooperated with the decision making process of when we should hang out. She preferred to hang out Friday evening rather than hang out Saturday during the day. We agreed to meet at a coffee shop close to my house.

I call her 10 minutes before we had agreed to meet up, to tell her I will be 10 minutes late.

I walk into the coffee shop in a very calm mood. shes at the front ordering her tea. I walk beside her and tap her shoulder. We make eye contact, and she gets this microexpression of shock/disgust on her face. I knew right away she probably, likely wasn’t attracted. She is making small talk with the waiter while they make her tea and not paying attention to me. Instead of uselessly standing there, I take the time to scope out a seat for us.

She gets her tea, I get some water (was feeling really dehydrated omg) and we sit down across from each other. She’s got purple lipstick on and a choker. She’s got piercings all over her nose, including a bull ring.

We start talking and she cannot stop laughing at everything I say. Since she’s laughing a lot, I keep emotional cresting in mind. Although she’s across the table, I drop some kino in there when she’s laughing maniacally.

I tell her I’m going to get myself some more water and head across the coffee shop. While I’m pouring water, I look over towards her. There’s some sort of railing that is preventing me from seeing her eyes. I stoop slightly and we catch each other’s eyes. She bursts into a laughing fit. Some of the other people in the shop are giving me weird looks.

I rejoin her and eventually there comes a part where she starts pelting me non-stop with questions. It was tough for me to turn the conversation back to her because she’d just turn it back on me. Then she says that I’m a very interesting person and that she’s trying to get to the bottom of me. When a girl verbally says I’m interesting, I know it’s time to pull.

I invite her to go for a walk with me. She has a slight objection because she didn’t wear the right shoes to go for a walk. We talk some more while she finishes her tea. Then she says,

Pizz: Are we going?


It hasn’t been long since we first met. I’ll estimate 20 minutes. I lead her out the door, and we start walking. Conversation is starting to become more sparse at this point. There’s big silences, but I don’t sweat it. She’s wondering where we’re going. I say that we could go to my place. She doesn’t think it’s a good idea to go to someones house when she’s just met them. She thinks I could be a serial killer. I just let it be, and do some reframing that she could be a serial killer too.

I keep making her laugh, and she says, for like the 3rd time:

Pizz: Do you know youre funny?


We walk past my place (but i dont tell her) and keep going. Then she’s wondering where my place is. I said that we passed it. She’s still expressing hesitance, but I am enthusiastic and say that i want to show her my place cuz its so nice. Plus won’t it be nice to get her shoes off? LOL

We walk into my place, and it takes a lot of coaxing to get her to take her shoes and coat off. I don’t push it, and just let her adjust. One issue is that there's like 0 furniture cuz I just moved in here.

She’s wondering:

Pizz: are we staying here?


This is the part where I make my first mistake. I am a little too wishy washy here, saying we can stay here if you want. Shoulda said..yes we’re staying here. Wasn’t being strong enough in my leading - I was thrown off with her whole discomfort.

Pizz wanted to see my roommates cat - but said she was allergic to cats if she touches them. So I picked up the cat and brought it out. A mistake…I touched the cat, and then was touching her later, so that made her allergic. On top of that, she got very close to the cat and air petted it. I’m pretty sure she was doing this to purposely get allergic or something. Also at one point the cat was on my bed and she was sitting on my bed.

We are in the kitchen on the stools. Usually I have a ten minute rule to make a move, but I did not abide by it. It’s different when girls don’t trust you yet. Gotta let them adjust. We’re listening to music and looking at instagram, and then she starts saying she’s bored. Oops, missed an escalation window. Soon after I kiss her neck. She says this right after:

Pizz: So this was what you wanted to do?
Me: I just wanted to get to know you a little better.


Handled that one good. But she’s starting to have an allergic reaction, sniffling and getting hives on her neck. Makes things difficult. she doesn’t even seem interested in my advances to begin with, and her body language is overall negative.

Time goes on and after some more escalation, she’s getting pretty testy. accusing me of my strong eye contact that is turning into staring contests between us. I always reframed - she’s the one who’s initiating it and choosing to hold it with me. The testy behaviour is good, I know she’s considering sleeping with me at this point.

I invite her into my room but she’s expressing concerns over the cat and how it was laying on my bed earlier. I tell her we will take the top cover off. She’s refusing, I don’t push and just let it be.

At one point I’m kissing her neck, and I guess I got a glitter sparkle on my face from her. I give her a compliance request (a mistake) to take it off. She declines! Ooooops. Then, she is getting bossy with me saying I should make her coffee. I tell her no in a bad vocal tone. Another mistake. She starts getting offended over it, saying it was very rude of me. I explain, saying she won’t take the glitter sparkle off my nose so I won’t make her coffee. She keeps wondering if I was kidding. I assure her I was kidding. Who knows how many dominance points I lost here.

I start getting more aggressive. I grab and pull the nape of her hair. After I start doing this, she’s finally got the sparkly look in her eyes, her eye movement is becoming more rapid and she’s even looking at my lips woohoo! I guess the hair pulling turned her on. We make out. After I pull away, my face is covered in purple lipstick. We have a good laugh over that. I go wipe it off. Bit of momentum was lost here.

She eventually comes into my room with me, but just as we get in there, but my roommate comes home and starts bitching at me. Pizz feels uncomfortable about this, and is also expressing physical discomfort over her hives and breathing. Oh darn. She’ll let me touch her, but won’t let me kiss her.

She says she has to leave, but not before meeting my roommate and having a chat with her about insects. WTF. I am standing there listen to these two girls talk about bugs. Then pizz leaves.

An interesting, yet unsatisfying experience for sure. I don’t think she was attracted from the outset. But she thought I was funny, and was intrigued by me. I believe I also showed outcome independence. I also left things sort of open ended the whole interaction. Ie. saying we should go for a walk, but not fully cementing plans, then changing the subject and sorting out full plans later. I wonder how this impacted things? DON'T BE ABRUPT..?! This is seeding!!!!

I likely could have turned her into a notch, but her allergic reaction, anticipation of my roommate coming home, and my mistakes fucked it all up.

I’m thinking the reason why she didn’t trust me was because I didn’t get her talking enough about herself and didn’t build a good enough connection. I really should have pushed for not only building a connection, but maintaining the intrigue as well while we were at my house.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon May 07, 2018 9:54 am

date with drop

Another tinder girl. Easy to build a connection with through text, and gave me great signs of interest, including changing her frame to match mine when i disagreed with her frame and reframed it sexually (in bold):

fog: theres this place called in the east end called **** ****. you should meet me there for coffee on sunday and we could always go for a walk afterwards
drop: aww that sounds v v cute
drop: I’m down!
fog: i agree (: should be a good time! hopefully the weather cooperates
drop: ohh i almost hope it doesnt - a little moody overcast would add some layers *smirking face*
fog: hmmm, I’m under a different impression. the less layers the better ;)
drop: oh that was witty. *poop emoticon* I’m changing my position
drop: less is more

We met up at a coffee shop 2 doors down from my house. She was talking about how she was at a party with some high energy people, and she wasn’t really digging it because she’s a low energy person. She wasn’t lying - her energy levels remained low the entire time, and there was not much fluctuation in her vocal tones. She was, however, expressive with her hands and face. I didn’t really like her facial expressions. Too much facial movement, particularly with her eyes and lips, and not in a good way. It was unattractive to me.

I got her talking about her passion - art - and she instantly became more expressive with her hands. I teased her trance word out of her regarding her passion. She said it made her feel “fulfilled.” Now that I am able to actively recognize when a girl is talking about her passion, I want to anchor it to me. After reading some info from the masf forums, I think this will involve converting the passion from an activity to a person, and then using an anchor.

I’m going to strategize how to get girls talking about their passion quicker (but not before I can get a read on what their baseline expressions are like). Maybe it’s as simple as asking... but there probably needs to be some rapport there first before they can allow themselves to freely talk about it.

Also, at some point she started opening up her mouth a little more. I can’t remember whether this was when she was talking about her passion or not. Showing more of one’s mouth is always a good sign. I honestly wish I could remember the order that things took place, because it’s important.

She started shaking her leg, scratching her arm, peeling the label off the water bottle she was drinking out of. She also gave me bedroom eyes for a minute, but I cannot remember whether it took place before or after the scratching and shaking. Obviously, the scratching and shaking was her expressing her boredom, which means I missed an escalation window. I needa get better at handling escalation windows.

I did create a nice little low energy bubble for us at one point. My mistake was constantly trying to create higher energy bubbles. This was not the right strategy. I should have purely stuck to the low energy bubbles. I’m sure my attempts to create a high energy bubble came across as tryhard and unrelatable.

This got me thinking about my bubble strategy in general. There are deep dive (low energy) bubbles and playful (high energy) bubbles. I can create a high energy bubble by mirroring vocal tones and facial expressions, and talking quicker. I can create a low energy bubble by talking very slowly with the girl and using lots of pauses. It’s always better to try to get to the next step of the interaction while in a bubble.

I did seed the pull, talking about some art I had at my place. After she was done her tea, I invited her for a walk. We walked down the street, then I told her I had to pee so we should go back to my place (i actually truly did have to pee, mom). We turned around. As I’m walking up to my door, I pull my keys out of my pocket and some condoms fell out of my pocket. AHHHH!!! She did notice!!!!! I was very indirect the whole time, so I’m sure when she saw them, it was a huge shocker to her and ruined all plausible deniability. Funny enough, this wasn’t the first time this situation has happened with a girl.

She came into my place, and I showed her my paintings, but there was an uncomfortable vibe in the air - she hovered in the doorway of my room and didn’t come in. I was not leading, which made it weird and sketchy. I sent her on her way.

This was a bad date for several reasons:

- There was too much of a “getting to know you” vibe
- My vocal tonality was not sexual
- i wasn’t attracted, nor was I interested in anything she had to say - I even zoned out while she was talking about her passion
- the table was too big, so I could not touch her from across the table, unlike the other 2 dates I had this week.
- Not hitting escalation windows
- Not adjusting my strategy for her energy


This was a good date for several reasons:

- I got her talking about emotions
- I did some seeding
- I got her in a low energy bubble
- I pulled her to my place
- I was very observant. This thing with the mouth keeps popping up, and can actively recognize when a girl is truly actually talking about her passion


Maybe if I had hit the escalation windows just right, handled the transition from the cafe to my house better, and been more flirty, then this could have been a lay. Despite this I learned a lot. I have since deleted tinder, because I'm sick of going on dates with girls I'm not attracted to. My profile sucks. I know what my game plan is for the next few weeks, I will cover that in future posts.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon May 07, 2018 9:44 pm

Bubbly Mirroring Sessions

today I went and forced myself to do some approaches after succumbing to approach anxiety for the past 7 days and now my reluctance to approach has magically transformed into excitement. feels super nice.

One of my current issues is that I have a lot of frames I want to operate from, techniques and tactics I want to try out, and routines to practice. During interactions I start getting in my head and wondering what to do next (should i do this? THAT? WHAT about this and that!?) which just trips me up and stumbles me. I’m not 100% there.

My behaviour of mirroring girls still happens within conscious thought. I wonder if this is a behaviour that will become unconscious….as much as I would like to move on, I think I might need to stick around and focus on this for a little while longer.

On the street today, I happened upon an old friend of mine - she’s super warm. In the past, I was able to create high energy bubbles by mirroring a girl’s expressive vocal tones. When it comes to hand expressions that a girl is doing, I always felt sort of weird doing them after her. But today, with my old friend, I did the hand expressions at the SAME TIME as her (after getting her into a high energy bubble with her by mirroring her higher energy and expressive vocal tones) She didn’t accuse me of copying her - in fact, it was beneficial and enhanced the rapport and mood between us!

Now I’m wondering how I can turn these little mirroring sessions, bubbles, vibes…..into a strong advantage for me? Three ways:

1. I want to transition from copying the girl, into having the girl copy me so that now I’m in the lead…At first I thought that this takes time, but I think I could make it happen rather quickly by asking her to do something at the same time as me that requires conscious thought - a behaviour that involves teaming up with me for something really quickly, like a Hi 5! And then afterwards, I would get her to copy me by engaging in behaviour and holding the frame that she should copy me. Like if she’s in a silly mood already, and i throw some finger guns at her, then she should get the hint and throw them back. She would be rewarded with eye contact/kino, so that she will have incentive to continue to mirror me.

2. I need to cement these bubbles effectively. I have to come up with lines to say BEFORE going out into the field. Today I used “we are having so much fun.” but I could do better.

3. I need to anchor these bubbles effectively to a word or non-verbal. What I will try out is an arm squeeze during high energy bubbles.

Unrelated: I got to talking about my friend’s passion with her. She volunteered her trance word for passion to me rather quickly: “connection.” Last journal post, I mentioned how I am gonna use this to my advantage. As soon as I got her trance word, I was scrambling to recall what to do next. It was like a tornado in my head. I wish I had anchored her trance word to me, or gone deeper into exploring what those feelings actually feel like to her. I will probably be hanging out with her soon.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue May 08, 2018 7:47 pm

DAYGAME: A SPECTATOR SPORT?

There were several instances today where I would open a girl, and shortly after I would have an audience! People would start hovering around us with curious looks in their eyes. I was peacocking while in a higher energy mood, and I also had some jitters, so I can see why this happened.

People are in their own little world here. I will open, and they will keep doing what they're doing for a few seconds until they realize that I am talking to them. I gotta adjust my pre-opening, and I think that giving a high energy opener to jolt them out of their fog quick will really help.

Hair playing/twirling is a waaay more common approach invitation in Toronto compared to where I'm from.

Had some solid hooks today. One worthwhile mention was an older lady from the phillipines. Upon opening, she smiled at me and her eyelashes rapidly fluttered ! I had never seen that before. Tomorrow I will pay particular attention to a girl's baseline facial expression before I open her, and observe it upon opening. A few days ago, one girl's eyes got really wide in the weirdest way when I approached her.

To Learn: Reframing

Style believed that reframing was a huge part of flirting in a bar, so I decided to....learn how....to effectively reframe. I've been doing a lot of reading on it. When I fully understand all the reframing techniques that are humanly possible, I will compile them into a post in the advanced forum. It's a powerful technique!
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Straza » Wed May 09, 2018 1:02 am

There were several instances today where I would open a girl, and shortly after I would have an audience! People would start hovering around us with curious looks in their eyes.



I get this too bro! Approached a girl in a grocery aisle the other day and within a minute or so, the aisle had six or seven more people. It was just the two of us before. Kinda feels cool in a way, but can also add the pressure of making your convo sound cool to outsiders.

Do you still approach a girl immediately when there are people very close by who will definitely hear you open, or do you try and wait a sec for more space to be created? Even if you personally don’t get nervous from having a crowd anymore, wouldn’t the girl feel kinda anxious having it happen right in front of other people?
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed May 09, 2018 9:12 pm

Hi Straza!

Straza wrote:Do you still approach a girl immediately when there are people very close by who will definitely hear you open, or do you try and wait a sec for more space to be created?


The only time I take other people into consideration is if a girl is in a crowd of people and I’m not able to approach at an angle that I would like to. The presence of other people used to prevent me from approaching...I would be concerned that they would think negatively of me. But in reality, the majority of the time they are entertained and think you got a huge pair of balls. Now that I've moved to Toronto, there's people everywhere all the time, so being comfortable with the possibility of other people overhearing is necessary.

Straza wrote:Even if you personally don’t get nervous from having a crowd anymore, wouldn’t the girl feel kinda anxious having it happen right in front of other people?


Good question. This is highly dependent on the girl's personality, the environment, the type of game you're playing, and how good your game and fundamentals are. If you're doing everything right, she'll be sunbathing in an emotional paradise and won't even realize there's other people there.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Straza » Sat May 12, 2018 12:08 am

Songbird-

The only time I take other people into consideration is if a girl is in a crowd of people and I’m not able to approach at an angle that I would like to. The presence of other people used to prevent me from approaching...I would be concerned that they would think negatively of me. But in reality, the majority of the time they are entertained and think you got a huge pair of balls. Now that I've moved to Toronto, there's people everywhere all the time, so being comfortable with the possibility of other people overhearing is necessary.


I see. So just like approach anxiety, it's a barrier you have to overcome somewhere along the way.

Good question. This is highly dependent on the girl's personality, the environment, the type of game you're playing, and how good your game and fundamentals are. If you're doing everything right, she'll be sunbathing in an emotional paradise and won't even realize there's other people there.


Gotcha. Quality of approach trumps these other negligible factors.

Yeah man my city is also pretty populous. I'll have to get use to doing this then if i want to really progress.

On a side note. Before I found Girls Chase, I read a lot of Manosphere material and was really “red pill”. I distinctly remember guys professing that Toronto was the worst City in the world to meet girls. Lol, articles like this:

http://www.returnofkings.com/58796/15-reasons-why-toronto-is-the-worst-city-in-north-america-for-men

I doubt this applies to seducers of GC caliber, but I'm curious. How has your experience been so far? Does it compare at all with where you moved from
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun May 13, 2018 12:51 pm

Straza wrote: I distinctly remember guys professing that Toronto was the worst City in the world to meet girls. Lol, articles like this:

http://www.returnofkings.com/58796/15-reasons-why-toronto-is-the-worst-city-in-north-america-for-men


lmfao before i moved i was scouring the web trying to find first hand accounts from people regarding what the girls are like in this city. that was one of the articles i read! There’s a lot of people agreeing on one thing: it’s a tough place to game. Apparently toronto guys are shy while the women are snobby and unapproachable...

Straza wrote:How has your experience been so far? Does it compare at all with where you moved from

my roommate says that she has guys coming up to her all the time hitting on her and trying to get her number. And my initial perception of the women here is that they are friendly and open to being approached (although not as friendly as other places I’ve daygamed, like montreal). So right now I’m having a hard time understanding what all the fuss is about on the web.

I’ll have a better interpretation of what the city is like (in general, and compared to where I moved from) after I get some more approaches under my belt and start hitting some plateaus. I’ll have to let you know!

I’m hoping it turns out to be a really tough place to get chicks, because then I’ll be forced to really tighten up my fundamentals and game to see success. Then when I move somewhere else in the future, I’ll be able to clean up like nobody’s business. :)

What's your city like?
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun May 13, 2018 1:19 pm

LR-: Couchsurfer Walks 11KM to See Me

I was just about to finish up applying to jobs and head out to go daygaming. But I got this friend invite from this chick on facebook. I inboxed her and we talked briefly - she invited me to a concert that was taking place the next night.

We started bantering, and I pulled out a silly routine that I had learned the night before from Steve P. Immediately, she changes her stance:

Quack: I almost wanna meet up now cause of that comment haha


This was great because:

The night before I had read Chase’s article about the 4 types of social styles, and how you can figure out someone’s social style and mirror it in order to build more rapport with them. I’ve been focusing on mirroring lately, so I was ecstatic to find yet another mirroring technique! Just from our facebook convo, I knew Quack definitely had the social style of an expressive and was likely gonna use a lot of hand/facial/tonal expressions.

I wanna get better on dates and interacting with girls for longer amounts of time.

It also turns out she had just moved to Toronto as well, from the same city I had just moved from. I tell her to meet me at the cafe two doors down from my house. She briefly objected asking me to meet her halfway but I told her to meet me there anyways.

2 hours later, we finally meet. She’s this tall african chick in her early 30s with a huge head of curly hair, and she’s wearing a sundress. She says she’s gotten lost a gazillion times and her phone has died. (Later we discovered she walked 11KM to see me). We walk to a tim hortons nearby and get some coffee.

She starts chatting my ear off with her past experiences and I shut up and let her talk. At one point she mentions she’s a no-nonsense person….hmmm…could she be part Expressive/part Driver?

I also anchored positive emotions to a snap of my fingers. Whenever she laughed or smiled, I would snap my fingers. It worked - I talk about this later.

The Pull

She’d been talking for a while and I sense an escalation window of some sort SHOULD be coming up, but something doesn’t feel quite right…I feel like there should be more banter, or something to really push her over the edge to make her sold on me. ….I wasn’t sure what it was….

She’s a pretty spiritual person, so I tell her about how I have synesthesia. Ah! It was crazy! Now all of a sudden she’s gushing over how I’m such a good person and she likes all the qualities I have (which is hilarious - I didn’t even reveal much about myself).The best part was that she was giving me some doggie eyes. Time to pull!

Fog: lets go for a walk


As we’re walking out the door, she practically invites herself over to my place. She wasn’t lying when she said she was a no-nonsense person. We talk about my roommate, and when I say my roommate isn’t home, she touches my arm for the first time.

We get into my place. When I brought Pizzy back to my place, we sat on some stools at the island in the kitchen. But since then there’s been more furniture added. Quack sits down on this chair in the living room. I sit down on the loveseat. Oh darn, here’s an obstacle. I should have asked her to sit down on the loveseat with me. But there was this nagging voice in the back of my head (Style always talks about it), that said I shouldn’t turn things sexual and break the rapport we have. Wack ass voice. You can bet I’ll be making it shut up in the future.

An Escalation Window

We keep talking. Then I notice she’s rubbing her shoulder and neck with her hand - I saw this sort of body language with Drop (I read up on it after. It’s indicative of nervous behaviour - and in these sort of situations, it’s likely sexual tension). All of a sudden, there’s the doggie eyes again!

But she did not have any sort of sexual vibe towards me at all, it was just the doggie eyes….which was weird, usually girls who give me doggie eyes pair it with a smile, but here she was acting very platonically, and giving me doggie eyes with no smile. Regardless I jumped on the window:

Fog: Hey come sit with me.


In the blink of an eye she’s sitting with me. I escalate as normal…she’s starting to touch me more and at one point she randomly lays her head on my chest and starts projecting into the future. She really digs me…..i’m in the boyfriend zone.

Some Fun Stuff

We end up in my bed. I wasn’t in a hurry to get anywhere with her, and she was giving me a bit of resistance anyways so I didn’t push it. Later she said she let me get as far as I did because I was so patient!

We made out a lot, felt each other up, and she gave me a pretty wicked handjob. I busted all over her tits. Her sexual vibe came out here. She was reaallllly turned on and said she wanted to jump on me. I should have let her!!! Urghhh but I talked myself out of it because I was about to blow, and felt it would be a little anticlimactic.

My roommate came home, and Quack expressed hesitance over this. Later Quack said she didn’t wanna engage in anything too sexual with me while my roommate was in the house, because Quack is loud in bed. I feel like girls are potentially more wary about my current female roommate than they would be with a male roommate.

Quack does some sort of rationalization, saying its good we didn’t bang because now she’s more “pent up” and the sex will be better when we finally do it. Plus she says there’s no rush anyways.

She Stays The Night

She stays the night. Before we fall asleep she asks me if we can take a shower in the morning.

Unfortunately I have a single air mattress. The both of us on there was too much for the air mattress and a hole got blown in it. I think like two times in the middle of the night we hadda wake up and blow all the air back into it.

Short Intermission For Random Facts

- I have not spent much time with 30 year olds, so I thought she was interesting. She had this very caring, nurturing, motherly vibe that I don’t see with younger chicks.

- Sometimes when I would give her compliance commands, she would ask me to say please. This was her actively trying to reduce the dominance of my attempts to get her to comply. I didn’t say please. Conversely, there were times where she would give me compliance commands, and I would ask her to say please. And she did!

- Throughout this whole time, she was talking about how she was going through a time of turmoil, but I made her feel a sense of peace. I guess i helped her fulfill her need for peace, and this is likely why she grew attached to me so quick.

- She asked if she was the first girl I’ve had over since I moved. I was honest and said no- I told her about how Pizzy got allergic to the cat. Quack laughed and asked if that was why I asked if she was allergic to cats earlier.

- She also told me a little bit about why she started feeling so connected to me before we got to my house:

“When you started talking about energy I just knew”


“When we both said the word ‘awesome’ at the same time.” (me doing some mirroring, lol)


The Next Morning

Now listen, in the morning my roommate leaves and immediately Quack wants to go right in the shower and bang. There was something fishy with this, idk…the previous night, she wouldn’t let me take her undies off…why we gotta go in the shower, why cant we stay in bed?

Anyways I had never banged a girl in the shower before, and we tried, but with the combo of the hot water and condom, I just couldn’t concentrate enough to get hard.

So we go back into my bed, but I still can’t get hard! It’s dumb because I was so hard the night before. This is my biggest sticking point, sometimes i think I should get a girlfriend so I can bang her and get some solid experience with having sex, but I don’t want to give up day game…

This chick had a really strong, dominant sexual frame, I felt embarrassed that I couldn’t dominate or even satisfy her sexually…. -.- I took extra care to verbally dominate her and otherwise be more of a challenge wherever possible after this.

What Happened After?

I let her stay another night because her living situation was uncertain. I won’t go into details, urggh. But this chick would not put out. She’d let me make out with her, and acted in a very boyfriend-y way towards me in general, but that’s it. Trust me I was annoyed and wanted to go meet some new chicks.

I’ll cover some of the more interesting things that happened during this time:

At one point, during a period where the mood between us was neutral, I snapped my finger. Then she tells me it was a positive snap. What!!!!!? I did not persist, but I’m pretty sure that my finger snap anchor triggered some sort of positive emotions within her.

Then she was looking at me with doggy eyes, but she had this weird super caring look on her face that seemed so magical. So I said:

Fog: What does it mean when you look at me like that?


And then she starts gushing over how she likes spending time with me and all this other stuff she likes about me. Awwww heck ya this was the most perfect time to use some emotional cementing woooooO!!!

Later that night, after I brought out some teasing and charm, she started acting in a mushy gushy way towards me. Giving me lots of kisses in quick succession on my cheeks and lips. When girls really like you, they start doing this.

Conclusion

In the time spent with this girl, I learned so much about anchoring, escalation windows, compliance, body language, emotional cementing, framing, mirroring…everything!!!! I can’t believe how much better my game is going to get because of this.

The only negative part is that I have hickies on my neck now and this is gonna get in the way of daygame….
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue May 15, 2018 9:23 pm

I Banged Quack

Quack was over the other night and we banged. But she’s overall been really clingy, and some of the things she’s said to me have really gotten under my skin. Made me lose interest pretty quick…

Weirdly enough, I ended up having lunch with her and her parents. Her father seemed a bit shy towards me (wouldn't hold much eye contact) and her mom kept displaying nervous ticks like adjusting her shirt. Later on, Quack told me that they were very intimidated by me, and that this shocked her, because they are not intimidated by anyone!

I was in a really powerful state of mind at the time.

Rapid Topic Changes and Emotions Not Matching Conversation Topic

This is an idea that I had today while out day gaming. It’s a tad abstract, but I’ll explain:

Okay so let’s say you’re bantering with a chick, and she’s laughing a lot and in an amused state. Then all of a sudden, you change to a slightly more serious topic. Because you’ve changed the topic so quick, she will STILL be in an amused state, even thought the tone of the conversation has changed. Her emotional state does not match the conversation topic.

Now let’s say you’re in the same situation, except you give her a bit of time to calm down from the amused state, and then change to a slightly more serious topic. Now her emotional state matches the conversation topic.

Does this even matter? And if it does, what effect does it have? Which is better for seduction? I came up with this idea because I’ve been using rapid topic changes as a technique to try to hook girls.

My Roommate’s Adventures With Guys

My female roomie often tells me about the guys who approach her. She says they often don’t engage her in conversation, and usually ask for her number without making much conversation. This is my competition she’s talking about.

She said that a big rapper came into her work the other day and asked for her number. She’s a typical example of a social ladder climber - her goal is to meet big rappers, and she wants to become friends with lower level people just so she can get them to introduce her to the big rappers.

Anyways, here’s the interesting part… She works with a guy who she thinks is cute - but she complains to me a lot about how she can’t read him and doesn’t know if he likes her or not. She does have his snap but not his phone number. So then, on her night off, she was saying that if this guy and the rapper both asked her to hang out on the same night, she would choose to hang out with the guy she works with. I thought this was interesting. It shows how desire/anticipation/mystery can beat out preference...

Eye Scanning: A Sign of Attraction

Today I met a latino girl who was clearly attracted to me. Mirroring me, laughing at everything I was saying, doggie eyes, the whole 9 yards...While I was talking to her, her eyes were moving from side to side - I know this means that she’s gauging my reaction. However, the fact that this behaviour was paired with all the other signs of attraction leads me to think that this behaviour itself is a sign of attraction…or at least an IOI.

Separating High Energy Vibes From High Energy Body Language

I realized that when I’m in a higher energy state, my body language becomes a lot more high energy as well. I have been working on being in a higher energy state, but using low energy, slow body language.

"I’ve Always...” as a Tool to Build Trust

People who constantly change their opinion seem wishy washy. In order to build trust and reliability with people, it’s important to be seen as consistent in your beliefs and opinions.

Imagine the toronto maple leafs won the stanley cup. Compare these two scenarios:

Fog: I’ve always liked the toronto maple leafs


or

Fog: I like the toronto maple leafs


Which guy do you trust more? The guy who says he’s always liked them, or the guy who says he likes them, and thus has possibility jumped on the bandwagon? It’s the former.

Needless to say, lately when I describe myself or my opinions, I make sure to include “I’ve always” at the start. I wonder if this actually has an effect.

Daygame: Getting Past Sticking Points

I was hitting this wall where I just couldn’t get into a good conversation with any girl. But today I built up some nice social momentum and had a few sets that resulted in conversations. I’ve been acting more aggressive, bantering more, and ejecting less - this is part of it.

Daygame went really well today. I opened a pair of girls near a street performer and got them into a really high energy state. We were laughing and having a lot of fun - other people walking by were curious about what was happening, and seemed interested.

Do You Believe in Magic Spells?

This is a line that mystery would use. I’ve been trying it out on girls who look like they could possibly do magic. I’ve opened two sets with it. One set was initially interested, but ejected immediately after I asked her this. The second set immediately became rude and cold with me. It was really weird - perhaps witches are not allowed to reveal their magic secrets to pickup artists?
fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed May 16, 2018 10:01 pm

new technique ALERT: Superfluous Apology + Pacing + Relating Combo

Quick piece of tech here that’s super easy to implement!

Superfluous apologies are when you apologize to someone for something you are clearly not responsible for. Studies show that using a superfluous apology increases the victim’s trust in the apologizer - it demonstrates empathetic concern.

You can pair superfluous apologies along with pacing and other rapport building techniques to rapidly build trust and an emotional connection with girls.

Here’s an example from today, in which I approached a cashier in a relatively empty grocery store:

Fog: I’m sorry it’s not busy. (Superfluous Apology) I know you must be bored. (Pacing)
Cashier Girl: *starts laughing* Oh my god I'm so bored, it sucks!
Fog: I remember when I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store. When business was slow, time would just drag on and on and on… (Relating)

I was surprised by how fast this caused her to start vibing with me.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat May 19, 2018 4:59 pm

Super MEGA Frustrated

I am having alotta trouble with my vibe. If I go into a set and I'm more on the serious side/not experiencing any sort of social momentum, girls get very creeped out by me.

If I'm warmed up and go into a set with high social momentum and act very playful, girls hook and give the doggy eyes/are really friendly - BUT THEY SAY THEY HAVE A BOYFRIEND. OR THEY DECLINE TO HANG OUT WITH ME!

Some girls are engaged by me, but literally become speechless...they have no clue what to say to me!

It's the most annoying thing ever! I know it's not a problem with my general routines, because I use the same routines in all situations lately. I know it's not a problem with my fundamentals....therefore it's a problem with my vibe:

1. I'm too high energy compared to them
2. I'm reframing their objections too much, leaving them very confused
3. I'm asking for their contact info too early

It sets off their alarm bells and they can't take me seriously. I guess it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot...

South American girls respond pretty well to me though!!! Woohooo!!! And they love it when I realize they're from south america.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sun May 20, 2018 11:18 pm

New Facial Expression: The Tongue-In Cheek Look

This is a playful, boastful, cocky facial expression I use in humorous situations, like where I’ve just won a frame battle…it conveys the message of “I just won.” Three steps to use it:

1. Do a smirk
2. Open your mouth, while still smirking
3. If you’re smirking towards the left, push your tongue into your left cheek. Vice versa if it’s the right.

It’s so easy to implement. :) I was with my roommate the other day, and a guy tried to pick her up. When she shut him down, I gave him this look to rub it in his face.

Instahooks

I’ve had a few instahooks over the past few days. They’ve been really interesting. The vibe between me and the other person is instantly perfect. We just click!

Here’s an example from today. I approached a girl at the subway station who was waiting for the train:

fog: don’t jump
girl: *instantly engaged* i wasn’t going to
fog: I’m pretty sure you were. my heart was racing so quick. I almost had a heart attack. feel my heartbeat!
girl: *puts hand on my chest and is laughing* i think you were just imagining it!
fog: trust me, you were really close to the edge
girl: what are you on?
fog: the subway platform
girl; no seriously, your eyes look dilated


I was gonna say, “when people are attracted to each other, their pupils dilate” but thought this would put me in a chasing position. In hindsight, I should have told her that her pupils were dilated too, then used this line.

Later we are sitting on the train:

girl: are you hitting on me?
fog: what do you think? :)
girl: I can’t tell…you’re really bubbly!


She objected quite a few times to me trying to get her contact information. Initially she asked me if I had instagram. When I asked her why she wanted my instagram, she said it was to "get a sense of who i am." Interestingly enough, another girl gave me the exact same response recently. Anyways, this girl said that due to work, she's had to be very private about her personal life and usually lives off the grid. So I settled with getting her work email. I took my time machine back to 2002 and sent her an email, we'll see if anything comes out of it.

Reframing The Hungarian Grandma

I met a cute hungarian woman, who claimed she was old enough to be my grandma. She likely was. This did not stop me from asking her out on a date. She objected many times, but i just reframed and reframed and reframed…….eventually she told me that it would be hard for her to truly connect with me since I could not speak hungarian. This was when I stopped the reframe games and sent her on her way.

My Palm Writing Routine

Everyone and their mom has had their palm read by some stranger attempting to seduce them in the past. So now, as a way to initiate kino, I use this sort of routine:

Me: give me your palm?
Girl: *extends palm*
Me: *starts drawing on palm* Can you guess what I am writing on your palm?
Girl: I can’t figure it out!
Me: Next time someone reads your palm, they will read what I have wrote.
Girl: HAHAHAH what


This week I will draw on their palms, then start drawing on their arms, and see what I can get away with.

Quick Notes

- My mirroring efforts are starting to pay off.. I noticed I'm doing it unconsciousLY
- hard screening vs. soft screening
fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed May 23, 2018 10:01 pm

A Breakthrough

Today's session was mental-bonkers. I couldn't believe:

1. How warm, friendly and playful girls were being with me upon my opening
2. How quickly chicks were hooking

I've been working extra hard on my opening routine and it's paying off - I have a high hook rate with it.

The past few weeks I've been trying out a range of different openers, but found this particular one to be pretty effective:

Fog: *waves at the girl* (regardless if she has headphones in or not)


Once I got her attention, I say this:

Fog: I saw you standing here and I was like what the heck!


Then depending on what she does, I'll say this:

Fog: I had to say hi!


So then, yesterday, I was thinking about all my dates lately. Initially the girl will be quite stiff. She won't use many facial expressions, her vocal tone will be relatively flat, and she won't use many hand movements. But there's a pattern...there comes a point where all of a sudden she's using facial expressions, wider ranges of vocal tones, and she'll get more expressive with her hands. Because it's a consistent pattern, I believe that this behaviour is a sign of comfort (duh). And if this is what people do when they're comfortable with another person, then I should adopt that behaviour in my opening routine to make me seem comfortable right?

I started being facially expressive and using a wide range of vocal tones with the "what the heck" opener, and now I'm seeing really great initial reactions from women.

Although I'm a little worried...the what the heck opener is a little bit direct, but if I am overly friendly, does that reduce the directness of it? Am I on the right track with this? Basically I'm worried that girls won't view me as a lover candidate right off the bat. Maybe I could go even more direct, while maintaining the friendliness and see what happens.

From Friendly to Horny in 2 Seconds

I was talking to this chick today and then all of a sudden she started rubbing her neck/shoulder, which I know is a sign of horniness/sexual tension. It's tough to describe, but at the same time we started vibing REALLY hard and I could feel her state elevate. I've never experienced anything like that. I was so shocked.

A Sneaky Technique

I started exchanging names with girls. Once we are done that, I say,

Fog: Anyways back to what we were talking about...


Which is SO FUCKING SNEAKY because I throw the "we" word in there without coming across as tryhard.

Next Steps

I am planning on doing 100 approaches from Thursday to Sunday. I will be working on beginning-mid game. I want to transition from my opener to a conversation topic that gets girls blabbing my ears off. Right now the topics I transition into are a little bit hard for girls to latch onto, I feel like.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Cacc » Wed May 23, 2018 10:22 pm

How about

*wave*
I saw you standing here and I was like what the heck! Your hair is absolutely gorgeous! I had to say hi.


If you can tailor the second compliment for her your opener will feel a lot more sincere and special.

goodluck
You come at the king, you best not miss.
Cacc

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue May 29, 2018 6:53 pm

Thanks Cacc.

New Technique: Emotional Cementing + Gratitude Combo

The display of gratitude looks to be a powerful technique. Chase has an article here that talks about how using gratitude correctly can increase your attainability and attractiveness. Psychology Today also outlines several studies and benefits of using gratitude - according to their article, it improves comfort and rapport in relationships.

Lately, I’ve been looking for ways to combine techniques. I've also been focussed on emotional cementing. So I'm thinking that you could use emotional cementing and displays of gratitude together to really make a bang.

An example:

Girl: *can’t stop smiling while talking to me*
Fog: what does it mean when you smile at me just like that?? :)
Girl: it means I’m happy!


She’s gonna start being more open and positive with you, which is the main benefit of emotional cementing. Another one of the benefits of emotional cementing is that you can use cemented emotions to help return women to the emotions they felt with you at an earlier time. But later on, it would be sort of clunky to say:

Fog: hey, remember how happy you were earlier?


Instead, you could bring it up in a subtle way by being gratuitous towards her:

Fog: I appreciate you being so positive and happy around me today. :) It made my day so much better.


And now all of a sudden, youre triggering positive emotions in her again while being gratuitous, thus increasing attraction, comfort, and rapport. You’re also reinforcing positive behaviour.

Nostril Flares: A Sign of Arousal

Recently I was on a date with a mexican girl. When I first met her at a bus stop, she was giving me doggy eyes. The next time when we met up in person, her face was rather stiff. It was obvious she was not comfortable with me. Eventually her face started opening up, along with her vocal tones and hand expressions. I also noticed that her nostrils wiggled/flared at one point, so I just assumed that this was a sign of comfort too. But then she started doing slight eye scans too (a sign of attraction).

A few days ago I was with my friend, and while we were talking about a conversation topic that he was rather angry about, he wiggled/flared his nose. I am highly doubtful that this was a sign of comfort.

After doing some research, it appears that nostril flares/wiggles are a sign of arousal. Depending on the context, they are a sign of attraction.

Kino Breakthrough

I’ve been on a few dates lately, and I am getting quite aggressive with my kino. Typically in the past I never attempted to use anything more than brief arm touches until I was back at the seduction location. I was not being bold. Now what I am doing is increasing the intensity and length of my touches, and using different types of touches. For example, I’ll put my hand on the girl’s leg and keep it there. Or I’ll start caressing the girl’s arm. Haha! I also reduced the amount of time that I back off for after they display signs of discomfort. If they are uncomfortable with it, I try again in like 30 seconds.

This gives me the ability to move super quick early on if need be. I can’t believe how slow I was moving all these years.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:55 pm

LR: I Said All The Right Things

This is gonna be a brief story... I will fill in all the details in a later report....

I was coming out of the grocery store with some food. I was extremely hungry and feeling weak. I try not to talk to girls on an empty stomach - it negatively impacts my presence. But I saw these two girls sitting out front with party supplies, so naturally I had to approach:

Fog: You girls look fun
Pinecone + Strawberry: We are!!!


Turns out they’re having a party that night. Also, Pinecone moved to the city about a week ago. We chat about this, then Strawberry says this:

Strawberry: Are you fun?
Fog: You will find out as we keep talking.


She makes a face like, “that was a good answer” and immediately invites me to her party. The girls start hounding me with questions, and Pinecone asks for my number, saying she will text me right now. I give it to her and then she texts me on the spot.

I left thinking…how the heck could these girls act so positively like this towards me despite my weak presence?

Anyways, went to their place that night - it ended up being a small get together. I could tell that Pinecone was really attracted to me. Due to a little sticking point, I only managed to make out with her - right when I was leaving. I was embarrassed it had to end like that, made me feel like an AFC.

But I pinged her the next day for a reference point:

Fog: we should hang out again sometime this week
Pinecone: yes we should
Pinecone: what’s your week like


She agreed to come over to my house. So we're chilling in my room, and I'm starting to escalate, and in between making out she says this:

Pinecone: Tell me about yourself.


I knew this was coming - primarily because at the get together, she was giving me a facial expression like she wanted me to develop rapport with her. However, I didn't at the time.

I didn't tell her too too much about myself. She opened up to me about her personal issues, and I know handled it correctly because she started holding my hand. This was how i knew that she was feeling more comfortable with me.

So we're lying there and she says this:

Pinecone: What are your intentions with me?
Fog: i just want to keep spending time with you and see where it goes
.

Then soon after she says this:

Pinecone: I like all the answers you give me.


And soon after that, all clothing is off and things are really getting hot in my room. She had a wicked hot body and gave me an amazing handjob, some amazing blowjobs, and the sex was incredible...she let me fuck her raw and this was an amazing experience for me because all ive ever had before is mediocre sex. And i lasted for 30 minutes during the second round....sooo, i'm pretty happy.

We're gonna hang out again sometime
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby readjusting » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:21 pm

Congratulations man, you finally breakthrough.
You ran into a girl who is completely into you, and you captured that opportunity.
readjusting


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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:24 am

IceCream wrote:Congratulations man, you finally breakthrough.
You ran into a girl who is completely into you, and you captured that opportunity.


thanks ice cream

LR: i said all the right things

This is the full LR.

I was coming out of the grocery store with some food. I was extremely hungry and feeling weak. I try not to talk to girls on an empty stomach - it negatively impacts my presence. But I saw these two girls sitting out front with party supplies, so naturally I had to approach:

Fog: You girls look fun
Pinecone + Strawberry: We are!!!


Turns out they’re having a party that night. Also, Pinecone moved to the city about a week ago. We chat about this, then Strawberry says this:

Strawberry: Are you fun?
Fog: You will find out as we keep talking.


She makes a face like, “that was a good answer” and immediately invites me to her party. The girls start hounding me with questions, and Pinecone asks for my number, saying she will text me right now. I give it to her and then she texts me on the spot.

I left thinking…how the heck could these girls act so positively like this towards me despite my weak presence?

The Party

That night I go to their place….it’s Pinecone and Strawberry, and two other girls. It’s more like a get together than a party.

There’s Pepper, 41 years old, and she was Pinecone's and Strawberry's old boss. She’s definitely an interesting mix of driver/expressive and due to her age and relationship to the girls, I feel like she is the alpha female. There were moments where I felt like she was being ridiculously socially uncalibrated. For example, Strawberry kept expressing her inability to do math, but Pepper was absolutely adamant that she could learn. It basically turned into a tug of war. Although I felt like she was a little socially uncalibrated, I realized Pepper was just super stubborn and was holding a strong frame. Also…the way she talked was boring, factual and weirdly analytical..it was hard for the other girls to pay attention to her. Pepper also gave me advice. For example, when the girls were asking me lots of questions, she said that it would be a good idea to tell “as much details as possible."

There was also an amiable (Amy), 21 years old, who was shy towards me at first, but after I made a bob’s burger reference her attitude towards me totally changed..she was socially uncalibrated in a different way: she was a total value suck! She never added value - instead, she always took value away from whatever someone was saying. For example:

Strawberry: i liked this tv show and i liked it since i was a kid
Amy: i think everyone liked it when they were a kid


And there’s Pinecone and Strawberry, both expressives, and seemingly pretty mature for their age… thought they were in their late 20s, but they were like 21 and 23 or something..

We’re all sitting outside on the back deck. Initially I am quiet, letting them talk amongst themselves. But then Strawberry demands to know about me. Earlier in the night I had been strategizing regarding things about myself I should reveal to women in order to trigger their attraction and comfort switches.

I started talking about how I have lived in multiple cities, except I did not tell the story linearly. Sometimes the girls would go off on a tangent amongst themselves based on what I said, but Strawberry would always focus it back on me. She was very curious - she wanted to know the story from a linear point of view. I noticed a pattern here. Before, girls have gotten intrigued when I tell them I have lived in multiple cities, but don’t talk about it from a linear point of view.

I snuck in the fact that I’ve worked with kids before, and how I felt like they were my own kids. Only Strawberry and Pepper were listening at that moment, and they both had a nice little emotional spike - they both went “AWWWWWWWW!” That was exactly the reaction I wanted. These kinds of reactions are important.

Me and Strawberry had established she met someone in my hometown and then she was asking me if I knew anyone in one of the other cities I had lived in:

Strawberry: Do you know Agnes?
Fog: OMG
Strawberry: what!!
Fog: no
Everybody: *laughs*
Strawberry: Are you an actor?
Fog: not at the moment


At one point, Pepper qualified me in front of the whole group, saying that I was a very interesting, intriguing guy. The rest of the group agreed.

But what about Pinecone? During this whole time, I had mostly verbally engaged with Strawberry, but there was a non-verbal side dialogue going on with Pinecone that lead me to believe she was highly attracted to me:

- She kept looking at me for my reaction to certain things that were going on
- When I gave her kino compliance tests, it was really good. For example, she put her hand in my hand when she showed me her nails, and gripped my hand.
- We were playing footsie
- She was giving me all sorts of looks, including sparkly eyes, and another specific look I’ve seen before that let me know she really liked my company.

We were all talking about going for brunch tomorrow, and that sort of made me think they were gonna let me stay the night…

Pinecone and Strawberry made some meatballs. I was using my fork to eat some meatballs. Then Pinecone came to stand beside me. She used my fork, and was eating meatballs with it. Then I said:

Fog: Hey i used that fork, you’re gonna get my cooties
Picone: i like cooties


AKA ill swap spit with you. I grabbed her thigh really quick. Out of the corner of my eye I saw that Amy had some sort of shocked look on her face. I wonder if she understood what was going on…

Anyways, they kept projecting into the future with me, so I was thinking..if i were to hook up with Pinecone later, i dont think there would be any attainability issues that could trigger LMR. I think the biggest issue would be that she would want me as a boyfriend and want to wait.

Going Inside

It’s getting pretty late so we go inside and sit on the couch. I knew this was gonna be an escalation window of sort. Pinecone comes and sits on the couch, beside me. We are sitting rather close…I put my arm on around her, but it is touching the couch, not her. Then she starts squirming around a little bit. I felt like she was unsure whether or not she should lay her head on my chest. After this, she starts moving farther down the couch away from me. This annoyed me. I almost want to chase her down the couch to sit closer to her. But I decided not to. I viewed it as in indicator as disinterest, which should be met with disinterest from me. Plus it could be a test. So I stayed where I was, and even maximized the distance between us by leaning away from her.

Right when we all sat down and Pinecone and I were sitting close together, Strawberry had a bad look on her face. Earlier in the night she had expressed negative emotions over the fact that her boyfriend in England had not texted her in 5 hours. I feel like she was perhaps jealous of Pinecone and me.

It is way past my bedtime at this point. I was very tired and I was not saying much - the girls were laughing and having a good time and I felt very much like I was being a value suck. But I was not being as much as a value suck as Amy. Pinecone and Strawberry repeatedly turned the conversation sexual, but Amy would always turn it back into platonic conversation.

For example, we were all stating three things we like most in life. Strawberry + Pinecone both agreed that sex was one of their favourite things. Meanwhile, when it was Amy’s turn, she said something like soup….LIKE COME ON…

Unfortunately when it was my turn, I didn’t say much. I really wanted to say how I like eating ass, but because it was so late and I was so tired, I was afraid my vocal tones would betray me and I would come across as tryhard.

In regards to the sexual conversation topics, they were talking about hooking up. Given my experiences with Pinecone so far, I knew this would make be the perfect opportunity for her to throw me a little shit test. My spidey senses were correct..Pinecone turned to me and said:

Pinecone: do you hook up a lot?
Fog: *long pause* every single day.


Pinecone also told me that she reminded me of her first boyfriend.

I felt like there was a 3some opportunity here. Pinecone and Strawberry seemed to click pretty well, and were pretty open about their sexuality and how much they loved sex. Strawberry did have a boyfriend, although she expressed earlier in the night how her boyfriend seems to be pretty loose about her meeting other guys.

But despite the potential 3some opportunity, I had something else to try to accomplish…a 2some with Pinecone. It did not help that I was really tired, and I was hitting a sticking point: I felt apprehension around isolating Pinecone to develop some rapport with her. I wasn’t sure how to do it appropriately without making her friends mad or making it awkward.

If I was alone with Pinecone at my place, it would have resulted in sex. If it was a bigger party, it would have resulted in sex. If it was the same size, and her friends gave me consent to hook up with her, it would have resulted in sex. So i believe the overall issue was just worrying what the friends would think - which is a terrible mindset. I was more worried about how her friends would feel than the possibility of losing Pinecone.

Anyways, back to the story...I mentioned that I was going to washington this weekend to Pinecone, and she sort of freaked out a bit. She wasn’t sure whether I was moving there or not - she said “you cant just do this to me” and said it had happened to her before. It also turned her on a little bit - she was twirling her hair. Perhaps this indicated my ability to walk away, which is what so many girls like.

i also thought that maybe they’d let me sleep over and in that case id…….hop into bed with Pinecone!

The End of the Night

It was time to call it a night. Amy left - Strawberry and I exchanged. relieved, knowing looks. No trash talking needed, we both knew that Amy was being a value suck.

I’m about to leave too, and i’m using a guttural vocal tone I’ve been working on lately (find it really helps with banter) to amp up the mood. We’re laughing and having a good time. I'm standing in the hallway, and each girl is standing in the doorway to her room (their rooms are right across from each other). Pinecone was giving me a look again, they had stated they were going to bed and I was trying to figure out how to make this work. Hey Pinecone wanna show me your room for a quick sec? Idk? false time constraint? I didn’t know how to lead without violating the fact that they said they were going to bed.

Remember the initial screen Strawberry had thrown at me? Well I guess I passed the screen, because both girls started talking about how much fun I was.

Anyways, Strawberry disappears into her room, and Pinecone walks me down the stairs, gives me a hug and there was a point where i was holding her hand briefly and I gave it a tug - she came closer and we kissed. It was pretty short, she ended it early and said something like this:

Pinecone: i dont wanna ruin a good thing


Friendzoned? Boyfriend-zoned? Her logical side probably kicked in when she said this.

I left feeling very disappointed. Here was a girl who was so into me…how could I let it slip like this, and only kiss her….at the VERY end too, AFC style?

I Redeem Myself

But I pinged her the next day for a reference point:

Fog: we should hang out again sometime this week
Pinecone: yes we should
Pinecone: what’s your week like


She agreed to come over to my house.

I show her my room, and I comment on how the big mirror in my room is good for selfies. She is quite direct here, stating that it would be good for fucking as well.

Not gonna lie, I was sort of nervous - she recognized this and pointed it out. I should have reframed to say I was excited, not nervous, but instead i just said I wasn’t nervous. She mentioned she was nervous too, and I believed it - she was rubbing her shoulder, as most girls do when there’s sexual tension in the air.

Anyways, I'm starting to escalate, and in between making out she says this:

Pinecone: Tell me about yourself


I knew this was coming - primarily because at the get together, she was giving me a facial expression like she wanted me to develop rapport with her. However, I didn't at the time.

She mentioned that at the get together, she felt like they had to force information about myself out of me. I don’t deflect questions about me anymore, but I have been trying out Jugglers “Conversational Pacing” technique that makes girls have to work to get information out of you. Perhaps my use of this technique could use some calibrating..I don’t want girls to feel like they have to pry overly hard to learn about me.

Regardless, after her request to learn more about me, I still didn't tell her too too much about myself. I knew she didn’t even care about me. She just wanted to share a frame with me, and to see that I understood her! She randomly opened up to me about her personal issues, and I know handled it correctly - she started holding my hand, which I viewed as a sign of comfort.

We're lying there and she says this:

Pinecone: What are your intentions with me?
Fog: i just want to keep spending time with you and see where it goes.


She goes on to talk about how she’s been hurt before and doesn’t want to get hurt again. Then soon after she says this:

Pinecone: I like all the answers you give me.


But then, she questioned my patience for making me wait for sex, and was also sort of talking about the thrill of the chase... i did not like that, and wasn’t sure what it was about. My vibe definitely changed and I was not feeling outcome independent. I didn’t like it because I felt like she was in control of the frame here, and was framing herself as the prize. I really was not sure how to get around this.

But I probably handled it right, because after that, all clothing is off and things are really getting hot in my room. She had a wicked hot body and gave me an amazing handjob, some amazing blowjobs, and the sex was incredible...she let me fuck her raw and this was an amazing experience for me because all ive ever had before is mediocre sex. And i lasted for 30 minutes during the second round....sooo, i was pretty happy. This really changes things for me.

Random Notes

1. We were chatting about what it feels like to have a connection with someone, and she offered me her trance words for feeling connected: relieved and comfortable
2. She did all her own emotional cementing :)
3. She says she has a IUD and is allergic to regular condoms
4. She asked more about why I approached her in the first place
fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby skin_man » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:03 pm

Congratulations on the lay songbird.
Are still in Toronto? Could meet with you for coffee if you're interested.


songbird fog wrote:
IceCream wrote:Congratulations man, you finally breakthrough.
You ran into a girl who is completely into you, and you captured that opportunity.


thanks ice cream

LR: i said all the right things

This is the full LR.

I was coming out of the grocery store with some food. I was extremely hungry and feeling weak. I try not to talk to girls on an empty stomach - it negatively impacts my presence. But I saw these two girls sitting out front with party supplies, so naturally I had to approach:

Fog: You girls look fun
Pinecone + Strawberry: We are!!!


Turns out they’re having a party that night. Also, Pinecone moved to the city about a week ago. We chat about this, then Strawberry says this:

Strawberry: Are you fun?
Fog: You will find out as we keep talking.


She makes a face like, “that was a good answer” and immediately invites me to her party. The girls start hounding me with questions, and Pinecone asks for my number, saying she will text me right now. I give it to her and then she texts me on the spot.

I left thinking…how the heck could these girls act so positively like this towards me despite my weak presence?

The Party

That night I go to their place….it’s Pinecone and Strawberry, and two other girls. It’s more like a get together than a party.

There’s Pepper, 41 years old, and she was Pinecone's and Strawberry's old boss. She’s definitely an interesting mix of driver/expressive and due to her age and relationship to the girls, I feel like she is the alpha female. There were moments where I felt like she was being ridiculously socially uncalibrated. For example, Strawberry kept expressing her inability to do math, but Pepper was absolutely adamant that she could learn. It basically turned into a tug of war. Although I felt like she was a little socially uncalibrated, I realized Pepper was just super stubborn and was holding a strong frame. Also…the way she talked was boring, factual and weirdly analytical..it was hard for the other girls to pay attention to her. Pepper also gave me advice. For example, when the girls were asking me lots of questions, she said that it would be a good idea to tell “as much details as possible."

There was also an amiable (Amy), 21 years old, who was shy towards me at first, but after I made a bob’s burger reference her attitude towards me totally changed..she was socially uncalibrated in a different way: she was a total value suck! She never added value - instead, she always took value away from whatever someone was saying. For example:

Strawberry: i liked this tv show and i liked it since i was a kid
Amy: i think everyone liked it when they were a kid


And there’s Pinecone and Strawberry, both expressives, and seemingly pretty mature for their age… thought they were in their late 20s, but they were like 21 and 23 or something..

We’re all sitting outside on the back deck. Initially I am quiet, letting them talk amongst themselves. But then Strawberry demands to know about me. Earlier in the night I had been strategizing regarding things about myself I should reveal to women in order to trigger their attraction and comfort switches.

I started talking about how I have lived in multiple cities, except I did not tell the story linearly. Sometimes the girls would go off on a tangent amongst themselves based on what I said, but Strawberry would always focus it back on me. She was very curious - she wanted to know the story from a linear point of view. I noticed a pattern here. Before, girls have gotten intrigued when I tell them I have lived in multiple cities, but don’t talk about it from a linear point of view.

I snuck in the fact that I’ve worked with kids before, and how I felt like they were my own kids. Only Strawberry and Pepper were listening at that moment, and they both had a nice little emotional spike - they both went “AWWWWWWWW!” That was exactly the reaction I wanted. These kinds of reactions are important.

Me and Strawberry had established she met someone in my hometown and then she was asking me if I knew anyone in one of the other cities I had lived in:

Strawberry: Do you know Agnes?
Fog: OMG
Strawberry: what!!
Fog: no
Everybody: *laughs*
Strawberry: Are you an actor?
Fog: not at the moment


At one point, Pepper qualified me in front of the whole group, saying that I was a very interesting, intriguing guy. The rest of the group agreed.

But what about Pinecone? During this whole time, I had mostly verbally engaged with Strawberry, but there was a non-verbal side dialogue going on with Pinecone that lead me to believe she was highly attracted to me:

- She kept looking at me for my reaction to certain things that were going on
- When I gave her kino compliance tests, it was really good. For example, she put her hand in my hand when she showed me her nails, and gripped my hand.
- We were playing footsie
- She was giving me all sorts of looks, including sparkly eyes, and another specific look I’ve seen before that let me know she really liked my company.

We were all talking about going for brunch tomorrow, and that sort of made me think they were gonna let me stay the night…

Pinecone and Strawberry made some meatballs. I was using my fork to eat some meatballs. Then Pinecone came to stand beside me. She used my fork, and was eating meatballs with it. Then I said:

Fog: Hey i used that fork, you’re gonna get my cooties
Picone: i like cooties


AKA ill swap spit with you. I grabbed her thigh really quick. Out of the corner of my eye I saw that Amy had some sort of shocked look on her face. I wonder if she understood what was going on…

Anyways, they kept projecting into the future with me, so I was thinking..if i were to hook up with Pinecone later, i dont think there would be any attainability issues that could trigger LMR. I think the biggest issue would be that she would want me as a boyfriend and want to wait.

Going Inside

It’s getting pretty late so we go inside and sit on the couch. I knew this was gonna be an escalation window of sort. Pinecone comes and sits on the couch, beside me. We are sitting rather close…I put my arm on around her, but it is touching the couch, not her. Then she starts squirming around a little bit. I felt like she was unsure whether or not she should lay her head on my chest. After this, she starts moving farther down the couch away from me. This annoyed me. I almost want to chase her down the couch to sit closer to her. But I decided not to. I viewed it as in indicator as disinterest, which should be met with disinterest from me. Plus it could be a test. So I stayed where I was, and even maximized the distance between us by leaning away from her.

Right when we all sat down and Pinecone and I were sitting close together, Strawberry had a bad look on her face. Earlier in the night she had expressed negative emotions over the fact that her boyfriend in England had not texted her in 5 hours. I feel like she was perhaps jealous of Pinecone and me.

It is way past my bedtime at this point. I was very tired and I was not saying much - the girls were laughing and having a good time and I felt very much like I was being a value suck. But I was not being as much as a value suck as Amy. Pinecone and Strawberry repeatedly turned the conversation sexual, but Amy would always turn it back into platonic conversation.

For example, we were all stating three things we like most in life. Strawberry + Pinecone both agreed that sex was one of their favourite things. Meanwhile, when it was Amy’s turn, she said something like soup….LIKE COME ON…

Unfortunately when it was my turn, I didn’t say much. I really wanted to say how I like eating ass, but because it was so late and I was so tired, I was afraid my vocal tones would betray me and I would come across as tryhard.

In regards to the sexual conversation topics, they were talking about hooking up. Given my experiences with Pinecone so far, I knew this would make be the perfect opportunity for her to throw me a little shit test. My spidey senses were correct..Pinecone turned to me and said:

Pinecone: do you hook up a lot?
Fog: *long pause* every single day.


Pinecone also told me that she reminded me of her first boyfriend.

I felt like there was a 3some opportunity here. Pinecone and Strawberry seemed to click pretty well, and were pretty open about their sexuality and how much they loved sex. Strawberry did have a boyfriend, although she expressed earlier in the night how her boyfriend seems to be pretty loose about her meeting other guys.

But despite the potential 3some opportunity, I had something else to try to accomplish…a 2some with Pinecone. It did not help that I was really tired, and I was hitting a sticking point: I felt apprehension around isolating Pinecone to develop some rapport with her. I wasn’t sure how to do it appropriately without making her friends mad or making it awkward.

If I was alone with Pinecone at my place, it would have resulted in sex. If it was a bigger party, it would have resulted in sex. If it was the same size, and her friends gave me consent to hook up with her, it would have resulted in sex. So i believe the overall issue was just worrying what the friends would think - which is a terrible mindset. I was more worried about how her friends would feel than the possibility of losing Pinecone.

Anyways, back to the story...I mentioned that I was going to washington this weekend to Pinecone, and she sort of freaked out a bit. She wasn’t sure whether I was moving there or not - she said “you cant just do this to me” and said it had happened to her before. It also turned her on a little bit - she was twirling her hair. Perhaps this indicated my ability to walk away, which is what so many girls like.

i also thought that maybe they’d let me sleep over and in that case id…….hop into bed with Pinecone!

The End of the Night

It was time to call it a night. Amy left - Strawberry and I exchanged. relieved, knowing looks. No trash talking needed, we both knew that Amy was being a value suck.

I’m about to leave too, and i’m using a guttural vocal tone I’ve been working on lately (find it really helps with banter) to amp up the mood. We’re laughing and having a good time. I'm standing in the hallway, and each girl is standing in the doorway to her room (their rooms are right across from each other). Pinecone was giving me a look again, they had stated they were going to bed and I was trying to figure out how to make this work. Hey Pinecone wanna show me your room for a quick sec? Idk? false time constraint? I didn’t know how to lead without violating the fact that they said they were going to bed.

Remember the initial screen Strawberry had thrown at me? Well I guess I passed the screen, because both girls started talking about how much fun I was.

Anyways, Strawberry disappears into her room, and Pinecone walks me down the stairs, gives me a hug and there was a point where i was holding her hand briefly and I gave it a tug - she came closer and we kissed. It was pretty short, she ended it early and said something like this:

Pinecone: i dont wanna ruin a good thing


Friendzoned? Boyfriend-zoned? Her logical side probably kicked in when she said this.

I left feeling very disappointed. Here was a girl who was so into me…how could I let it slip like this, and only kiss her….at the VERY end too, AFC style?

I Redeem Myself

But I pinged her the next day for a reference point:

Fog: we should hang out again sometime this week
Pinecone: yes we should
Pinecone: what’s your week like


She agreed to come over to my house.

I show her my room, and I comment on how the big mirror in my room is good for selfies. She is quite direct here, stating that it would be good for fucking as well.

Not gonna lie, I was sort of nervous - she recognized this and pointed it out. I should have reframed to say I was excited, not nervous, but instead i just said I wasn’t nervous. She mentioned she was nervous too, and I believed it - she was rubbing her shoulder, as most girls do when there’s sexual tension in the air.

Anyways, I'm starting to escalate, and in between making out she says this:

Pinecone: Tell me about yourself


I knew this was coming - primarily because at the get together, she was giving me a facial expression like she wanted me to develop rapport with her. However, I didn't at the time.

She mentioned that at the get together, she felt like they had to force information about myself out of me. I don’t deflect questions about me anymore, but I have been trying out Jugglers “Conversational Pacing” technique that makes girls have to work to get information out of you. Perhaps my use of this technique could use some calibrating..I don’t want girls to feel like they have to pry overly hard to learn about me.

Regardless, after her request to learn more about me, I still didn't tell her too too much about myself. I knew she didn’t even care about me. She just wanted to share a frame with me, and to see that I understood her! She randomly opened up to me about her personal issues, and I know handled it correctly - she started holding my hand, which I viewed as a sign of comfort.

We're lying there and she says this:

Pinecone: What are your intentions with me?
Fog: i just want to keep spending time with you and see where it goes.


She goes on to talk about how she’s been hurt before and doesn’t want to get hurt again. Then soon after she says this:

Pinecone: I like all the answers you give me.


But then, she questioned my patience for making me wait for sex, and was also sort of talking about the thrill of the chase... i did not like that, and wasn’t sure what it was about. My vibe definitely changed and I was not feeling outcome independent. I didn’t like it because I felt like she was in control of the frame here, and was framing herself as the prize. I really was not sure how to get around this.

But I probably handled it right, because after that, all clothing is off and things are really getting hot in my room. She had a wicked hot body and gave me an amazing handjob, some amazing blowjobs, and the sex was incredible...she let me fuck her raw and this was an amazing experience for me because all ive ever had before is mediocre sex. And i lasted for 30 minutes during the second round....sooo, i was pretty happy. This really changes things for me.

Random Notes

1. We were chatting about what it feels like to have a connection with someone, and she offered me her trance words for feeling connected: relieved and comfortable
2. She did all her own emotional cementing :)
3. She says she has a IUD and is allergic to regular condoms
4. She asked more about why I approached her in the first place
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:56 pm

hello skin_man, sounds like a cool idea. i'll send you a message

building a cool body: dirty looks and oogles

I’m lucky because I naturally have a built body. So it’s been easy for me to see some pretty quick gains now that I’ve been working on my upper body at the gym. My shoulders are getting nice and wide. :)

And not just quick gains either, but immediate results in the way that I am getting treated by people…

There are a few new elements to approach invitations: oogling and shyness.

I am really happy about the shyness. It suggests submissiveness, which is what I desire from girls.

And you know when you see a guy drooling over a hot girl…just like mesmerized by her and his eyes are glossed over a little? That’s how some girls are looking at me. I call it oogling lol.

I am getting reactions from guys too. Some guys oogle at me, and I even got a dirty look from a guy today!

Other notable reactions include women being abnormally nice to me.

the chemistry strategy

Chase said somewhere that he got better results from daygame when he reduced the amount of time he would talk with a girl to like 5 minutes.

When I first read that a while back, I was thinking “how can he get a girl’s number in under 5 minutes! thats not enough time to get to know each other to figure out if you’d like to see each other again!”

The issue with this thinking is that it’s highly logical - girls don’t think this way…they are emotional! And then I started thinking that the amount of time you've chatted with a girl is irrelevant. emotionally, all that matters is if there's chemistry and a connection, or not.

Looking at it like this, 5 minutes is enough time to discover if there’s chemistry between you and a girl. and for more advanced guys, 5 minutes is PLENTY ENOUGH time to manually create chemistry with a girl.

this is one of my new strategies to try out: base closes off chemistry.

Making Plans With Girls: The Smoothest Way Known to MAN

Here’s what I was doing before: I would suggest to a girl that we hang out again, then start making plans based on her response.

Excuse me, but what is even the point of suggesting to a girl that we hang out, when i could just assume attraction, and assume she does want to see me again?

Besides, suggesting another meetup out of the blue does two bad things: 1) it does not follow my “be less abrupt” rule, and 2) it gives her an opportunity to easily reject the concept of you two hanging out again, because there’s no previous compliance built up on the subject.

Here’s an excerpt from one of NarrowJ’s LRs where he transitions from a yes ladder, into making plans with the girl - without asking her to hang out first:

Me: "You just met me, but do I seem like a friendly person?"
Her: "Yeah, definitely!"
Me: "Do you like talking to me?"
Her: "I guess so" (not the answer I wanted to hear, but good enough because she's still smiling)
Me: "Do you eat food?"
Her: (laughing) "Duh, haha you're asking me out. I don't know right now…"


Notice how she catches on right away and knows exactly what he’s doing…without him explicitly saying he wants to see her again (by the way…pretty sure only girls who have more experience than not with guys catch on quick like this).

This is an amazing and incredible realization that i will be putting into practice right away. Yes ladders -> initial plan making -> explicit statement of intent to see her again
fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby skin_man » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:27 am

I've been working out three to four times a week. Then swimming all those days too. This should work to build a lean physique usually without too much muscle mass.


Yeah hit me up. I stay downtown but it's only for the summer.

Chat later.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Hue » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:53 am

songbird,

Glad to see you back posting bro! :D

I am getting reactions from guys too. Some guys oogle at me, and I even got a dirty look from a guy today!

I think more dudes are gay than most think. I work with a lot of gay men and it has given me some interesting insights haha.

I can appreciate a guy's looks who are stunningly good / have a sculpted body out of pure aesthetic, but do not find any sexual attraction to men. However, I was getting along quite well with this gay dude during a late night and I told him my memory of this observation, and now he thinks I'm a closet bisexual and keeps hitting up my DM's on instagram lol. Gay men are quite sexual, careful out there if you're not interested brother! Haha.

The issue with this thinking is that it’s highly logical - girls don’t think this way…they are emotional! And then I started thinking that the amount of time you've chatted with a girl is irrelevant. emotionally, all that matters is if there's chemistry and a connection, or not.

Exactly. It's honestly somewhat of a "performance" that leaves an emotional imprint. If the beginning and end of that performance are emotionally impactful, it's even more effective, because generally speaking that's how we best remember things.

Although, Chase seems to see the optimal level of it following a bell curve for emotional cementing, if I remember correctly - I'll have to double check during my next article deep dive.

Notice how she catches on right away and knows exactly what he’s doing…without him explicitly saying he wants to see her again (by the way…pretty sure only girls who have more experience than not with guys catch on quick like this).

This is because women gather the majority of their social information IMPLICITLY. They're not dumb lol they know what is going on between the lines as to why you're asking the questions you're asking - most of the time. So, it's better to lead them implicitly than it is explicitly, an a yes ladder is just a set of leading questions that reach an explicit conclusion to staple it in.


Glad to see you're making some good observations homie.

Hue
Always be a student.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:41 pm

Hue wrote:Glad to see you back posting bro! :D


I took on a challenging job that required me to dedicate the majority of my time to it for the last little while...but i got a handle on it now and ive been getting back into the swing of things...doing some daygame here and there.... it feels sooooo good to be back :)

Hue wrote:Gay men are quite sexual, careful out there if you're not interested brother! Haha.


ahhhh you don't have to tell me twice, i have plenty of pesky orbiters.

Hue wrote:This is because women gather the majority of their social information IMPLICITLY. They're not dumb lol they know what is going on between the lines as to why you're asking the questions you're asking - most of the time. So, it's better to lead them implicitly than it is explicitly, an a yes ladder is just a set of leading questions that reach an explicit conclusion to staple it in.


Nice. In other situations besides yes ladders, watcha think about "stapling it in"? For example, stating explicitly that you're into a girl, after you've been implicitly conveying it to her through touch and vocal tones etc? Part of me feels like it's overkill, and the best time to reveal explicit interest in a girl is very soon into meeting her.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:47 pm

Was talking to this girl on tinder in my hometown - we knew each other from before, in a purely platonic way. Never met her, but I had written an essay for her years ago.

She was pelting me with questions so I suggested we meet up that day. But she was busy with family activities. Anyways, turns out she’s just home for the weekend (like me) and she lives in the exact same city i do. She offered me a ride back to the city.

I knew what I was getting into. I could have easily declined, said I already had a ride, and just met up with her sometime in the city. That would have been more conducive to seduction, and I’m confident it would have turned into a lay.

On the other hand, being in a car for 3.5 hours is not really great for seducing. Well, probably for more advanced guys yeah but like how would this sorta shit go?

The Car Ride

Anyways she picks me up and we’re on our way. One of the things I’ve been working on recently is having “adult conversations” with girls. Talking about dating and stuff. It’s not platonic, yet it’s not purely sexual - but it can turn sexual. Soo we were having adult conversations (she even brought up porn - twice), and I felt like the sexual tension was thick as fuq. When I feel sexual tension, I know that’s an escalation window. Girls are feeling the sexual tension too, they know what’s going on.

She had engaged looks on her face most of the time when talking about these topics. And several times, she even stuck out her tongue! Wow, girls never used to stick their tongue out around me. But now a few girls have done it recently during adult conversations. I think I’m onto something lol!!!

A Slight Mess Up

After the adult conversation, I did a little deep diving, which is where i took a little attainability hit.

She's been in school for a while, and was expressing to me how it makes her depressed:

girl: blalbala being in school so long has made me depressed.
fog: you are definitely a millennial


This look overcame her face. The best way I can describe it is that it was a weird look on her face. Like she thought what I said was weird... Can't remember what her reply was - I don't think she said anything.

My comment was obviously not well received. I can see why...she mentioned depression and I tried to joke around about it. I believe she felt that I was being insensitive and this caused my attainability to go down a little bit.

I acted like nothing had happened and we continued with the conversation. Things were fine though, she didn't go into auto rejection or anything (no immediate change in her behaviour after the weird look). However if this occurred really early in the conversation, she definitely would have gone into auto rejection.

Things Quiet Down

Was it really necessary to talk the whole 4 hours with her? After about an hour, things got pretty quiet between us, except for the occasional flirty jab or observance of things in the environment.

I was wondering about how this quiet period impacted my attainability. In the past, I have had several girls open me. When I say nothing, they back off right away and go into auto rejection. But I was not too too worried. I felt like if i picked up conversation and turned the vibe sexual again like 15-20 minutes before she dropped me off at my place, then the long silence between us wouldnt matter. And shouldn’t this silence be considered “maintaining my attainability” so i dont say anything stupid and really put her into auto rejection this time? One last note from here: middles don’t matter too much - beginnings and endings do.

At one point i asked if she was patient. She said sometimes. She was wondering why. I didn’t tell her. In truth I was asking her because she kept changing the music quite quickly, but in hindsight I really should have referred to having to wait to relieve our sexual tension somehow...She wondered if I was patient. I told her a story that suggested I was patient. Later on in heavy traffic, i bitched about how much of a traffic jam this was. She says

Girl: i thought you were patient
Fog: *Says nothing*


I seriously came SO CLOSE to saying “i am patient.”, but instead I opted to go for silence. This was a test, and I knew it would be a big no-no to justify my patience. I couldn’t come up with a clever reframe quick enough, so I just didn’t say anything. Playing along with the sexual tension relief frame, i could have said "i am for certain things... :) just not for traffic"

I did make 2 abstract statements which she did not respond well to. In fact, it seemed as though she was rather dismissive of them! For example, a guy with a nice car had a license plate named “Midget”. We were wondering if he was actually a midget. Well we drove by him and he looked like a regular dude. I suggested that maybe he actually had no legs, which would make him technically a midget. Ya, she didn’t like that.

Also, during the last little part of the car ride, her vibe changed, it seemed she had a more dominant vibe/solid frame about her (indicative of a higher sex drive girl who goes through alotta guys?)

HUGE MESS UP

We’re getting close to my place. Did I mention I had to pee REALLY FUCKING BAD? I was also not feeling well from partying this weekend, and i was slightly nervous. I knew this would impact my ability to try to get her in my place. I was strategizing. She said she had to pee as well, but it wasn’t that bad. Should I use a yes ladder, build some tension?

There’s another guy in a nice car right around the corner from my place and she’s talking about how he’s probably got a big dick. Blabalba.

So we pull up to my place:

Her: you live in this crack house? (it’s an apartment building, it looks sort of run down from the outside but it’s really nice inside)
Me: ya
Her: you live in through that door?
me: ya i live in the basement
Her: creepy
me: youhavetopeeyouwantabreakfromdriving?
her: no I’m going home/no ill wait till i get home (couldn’t hear)
me: alright that’s fine


I grabbed my bag and said “thanks for the ride.” As I’m looking at her, she gives me a really submissive look (like…..this is what you’re missing out on BOY). “See you later”, I say.

ATGHCHDYFHDYSHDYHSUYHDYHDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCKED IT UP!!! wasn’t listening and I was too abrupt. Here’s how it should have gone:

Her: you live in this crack house?
Me: you mean the porn studio?
Her: Sorta looks creepy
me: That’s what I thought when I first saw it, but its actually SUPER cozy inside.
Her: Oh ya?
Me: ya you're probably tired from driving right?
Her: ya
Me: and you need to pee right?
Her: ya
Me: You’re welcome to come in and see where we film everything. Just a few minutes though, I know you got your dog with you.


She did have a dog with her, another obstacle. I am relatively certain that this girl is a slut, and the fact that she said she was just going to "go home" was mandatory female resistance that could have easily been overcome if my head had been on straight.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:27 pm

Uninhibited Hometown Visit

Went and visited my hometown this weekend. I got wasted as heck for the first time in like 8 months and it was really quite nice to feel uninhibited. It made me realize just how inhibited I am in every day life. These days when a thought pops into my head around girls, I often do not say the thought... because I do not have a solid understanding of how it will impact the interaction if i say it. In the past when I’ve gone running off saying whatever off the top of my head, girls have usually gone into auto rejection.

But I think it would be beneficial to start speaking my mind again. Recently on a date, a thought related to small talk popped into my head. I debated saying it, because I thought it was dumb and would not add much to the conversation. But I decided to say it anyways and it helped me get closer with the girl.

Obviously there is a fine line here and i should let me experience guide me.

In my car ride with the girl in my last journal post, a million small talk thoughts popped into my head. But this was after all the sexual tension and deep diving, and I felt it would not be beneficial for me.

Polarizing Behavior: Swearing and Opinions

Swearing and opinions….are they considered part of “speaking my mind?” Regardless I’m happy with the results I’m seeing when I openly swear and share opinions with a girl shortly after meeting her. Girls are getting comfier with me quicker.

Social Circle Girl Wants 2 Bang

There’s this girl in my friend group in my hometown. Her and I made out like 10 years ago when we were drunk. Every time I see her, she brings it up so I know she’s open to the idea of it (and more!) happening again. She’s:

A) quite sexual, I can hear it in her voice.
B) always *trying* to be physically dominant. She’ll always say stuff like, “ill fight you"
C) Good at quick reframes, so she’s fun to banter with

I saw her this weekend - gonna call her soph - and through experimenting with swearing and opinions, i feel like we became more….comfortable with each other.

We were chilling at my friends house and soph told me she’d fight me, I highly recommended to her that she not attempt it because it’d be a bad result for her. But then she turned it around and all of a sudden we were talking about wrestling in jello! HUH!? Is this one of her fantasies?

So the day after this happened, 4 of us went out to lunch. The conversation between all of us was sexually charged and the focal point was soph and i. Soph and my best friend were really laying it on heavy, making suggestions that soph is my new girlfriend and that i should be paying her $60 dollars for sex (some sort of song lyric)….and just overall comments in regards to the concept of soph and i hooking up. Of course, I always flipped it around to make it seem like I was the prize here. I didn’t know why the conversation was like this until me and my friend talked afterwards.

Anyways, lunch was over and we walked to the car. She was standing at the front passengers seat door - she had just called shotgun. I wrestled her out of the way and got in the seat. She got in the back seat, directly behind me. The front car seat was already pushed back quite a bit. As a tease i pushed it back even further - now she had virtually no room. She started swearing at me calling me a bitch and stuff, demanding that i pull the seat up. I told her i would do it if she asked me politely. She complied and i pulled up the seat :)

My best friend and I dropped her off, then we started talking about her. I found out why they were laying it on me so heavy at lunch:

him: remember how you and soph made out that one time
fog: yea
him: its gonna play in your favor because if you dont pick up any girls next weekend (SOPH AND MY FRIEND ARE COMING TO MY CITY TO VISIT), soph told me she wouldnt be opposed to sleeping with you.
fog: oh ya?
him: ya like she said that if you hit on her she'll hit on you back and you'll probably end up sleeping together
fog: hmmmm interesting lol
him: but she was like ‘but he’ll probably find some toronto girl to hook up with right?” and i wasnt sure


i made sure not to act too eager here or say anything that would suggest I’m totally 100% down. I know he probably, likely, would relay what i said back to her so i played it off as a “maybe” to keep my attainability at a nice level.
fog

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:24 pm

this past weekend was valuable experience to me. i was taught lessons on social awareness, attainability, dominance, and got further insight into the submissive nature of women. as well, i am planning a new strategy to accelerate my growth in the coming weeks.

friday

my best friend (crank) and soph came to visit me in toronto. me, him, soph, and two other girls who live in toronto (BJF1 and BFJ2) were partying at his airbnb. I’ve known all these people for ages. BJF2 showed up later. BJF1 has never really been into me, and I’m not into her either - she was giving me opportunities to move things forward this night though (i say this in the loosest way possible. i know what’s possible with the right moves)…

I was drinking sooo i was really sloppy...

BJF1: I’m having a party tomorrow, are you coming?
Me: yes, that’s lovely :)


She’s offering value there. Always important to be warm about it when a girl offers value like this.

**in the middle of some shenanigans between me and crank*

BJF1: where are you working in toronto?
Me: ….downtown!!! Hahahaha *non-serious vibe*
BJF1: *sour look*


She was actively making an attempt to build rapport with me, but I did not take her attempts seriously this caused my overall attainability to drop. This was really interesting, because right after this she started getting really jealous of crank and soph - who at that point were flirting quite a lot. Did my attainability drop cause her jealously? I don’t think it caused it, but i bet it had a part in it. i am having an attainability problem lately. too unattainable rather than over attainable.

The vibe turns solemn as soph gets a text that starts causing a lot of drama - she’s ranting to us and its clearly an emotional moment. Crank sits real close to her and puts his arm around her…this triggers some ideas around deep diving to me. If a girl is revealing intimate details about her past to you, she is being vulnerable around you. So i believe attainability would drop if your behaviour around her does not change after the deep dive. The relationship has now changed, so you should treat it as such and get more “close” to her in your behaviour.

After the drama clears up, Me, soph and crank are on the balcony and we’re talking about sex - they are wondering what I’m like in bed. Soph suggests that I’m really rough. She’s asking me if I’ve ever choked anyone before or handcuffed them. I’m like ya, thats basic shit lol. crank is asking, “are you rough? are you gentle? or do you just give the girls what they want?”

Of course my answer was “I give the girls what they want.” That’s the most attainable answer. Soph told me she likes it rough.

crank leaves to go inside. it’s me and soph sitting out on the porch. Soph tells me that if she gets her neck bitten it's over. i should have bitten her neck right then and there but i didnt. But then she quickly transitions into explaining her struggles from the past few months. Right towards the beginning of the deep diving - as a quick detour - I grab her arm and bite it, wondering out loud if its just her neck that causes her to go crazy. It was weird…we get back into deep diving. Later on towards the end of the deep dive again I tried kissing her neck but she wouldn’t let me. just stupid timing.

How did she transition from this sex talk into this deep dive really quick? It was strange, there had to be a reason behind it. At first I was fine with the deep dive - I was thinking that maybe she had decided that she was gonna sleep with me and now she needed some comfort to be built before it happened.

But then I’m thinking that maybe I accidentally over-provided good feelings to her. She was likely experiencing strong emotions and i could have directed them sexually but instead I allowed them to be directed them emotionally. I wasn’t leading! So I don’t know if this was a mistake or not. EITHER WAY, my strategy was poor due to my drunkenness.

the bar

we ended up going to this one bar and it was waaaay too loud for me. i hate loud bars. it’s too hard to hear.

i wasn’t really having too much fun, in fact i was tired and feeling fuzzy headed from the alcohol, but i was getting some ridiculous approach invitations from a short HB7.5 and tall HB8 who were dancing in a high traffic area of the bar - clearly to get attention from as many guys as possible. It was hilarious. guy after guy would come up to them, and itd be rejection after rejection.

But there was this one guy who just came and danced around them really non chalantly. Not really talking to them, just hanging out with them, looking around. I don’t think he knew them. But it was the lowest effort thing - his behaviour was different than the other guys. He wasn’t intently focusing on them like some of the other guys. They allowed him to hang around them.

So the HB7.5 kept giving me approach invitations like mad, and i wasnt sure what to do. In a lower energy, quieter environment, I would have talked to her. But it wasn’t this environment, and i was uncomfortable. So I just sat there as she gave me desperate approach invitations all night, especially after some creeps kept pestering the girls. This one time on the way to the bar, as a way to tease her, I went up and said “i gotta talk to you in a sec.” she mouths “okay” to me. i get some drinks for my friends and I then go back to chilling with them and watching.

Later, I’m quite drunk and I go up to her again and try to make a comment about the creepy guy following her around. I was like, “is plaid-y bothering you?” she says “what!?” and i back off right away. I was like, what a dumb thing to say. Good thing she didn’t hear me.

The HB8 came to sit near me and actually opened me. I could see her out of the corner of my eyes, flipping her hair in an exaggerated way as she sat down. Girls are getting really exaggerated with their movements around me lately. I’m talking to my buddy, then I feel a tap on the back. It’s HB8. I look back at her, then turn back to my friend for a second.

Then I turn around and walk over to HB8. Through the noise it seems like she is requesting that I take a picture of her friend. I laugh and say no and tell her “but this guy will” and point to a chubby guy who looks gross as fuck. Then I go back to talking to crank.

Was her compliance request real, or was it simply an opener to get me talking with her? I’d say the latter. I would have talked to her, but it was loud. Are these excuses? IDK…I'm starting to think so...but whenever i try to do this, it never goes well. wow listen to me.

saturday

a girl i approached was immediately nervous around me. never had that happen before.

hung out with soph and crank again - i gave soph a backrub and kissed her neck. really shoulda pulled the nape of her hair though. we were all tired from the night before so we didnt do anything. a 3some was suggested, but id prefer not to have a 3some with 2 guys and 1 girl.

a new strategy

last summer, and earlier this summer i did over 750 approaches. while i did get results from it, and did learn a lot about women, i believe i could have learned a lot more than i did, because my strategy sucked. i didnt really focus on improving from my mistakes. what i did focus on was trying to implement techniques like emotional cementing, while focusing on approaching large amounts of women.

so I’m going to start working smarter, not harder. my focus will be on the quality of my interactions, not on the quantity of them. i will write field reports that cover what my mistakes were, and then learn how to not make those mistakes again. I believe that if I do it this way, i could possibly improve more over the next few months than i have over the last few years.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:54 pm

good news - i've been approaching and i've been happy to notice that the majority of girls I'm talking to are.. NERVOUS...around me! More on that in a bit, I want to talk about the approach invitations i've been getting:

NEW Species of approach invitations

- A lot of girls are giving me looks like they are intimidated by me. Some look at me really wide eyed (its strange). I'm also getting sexual looks from women now. that never used to happen unless i was wearing my huge bomber jacket! The looks I like the most are the looks where they are looking at me like I'm an authority figure.

- One girl, after giving me a couple of glances in the grocery store, all of a sudden did a huge stretch and exposed her armpits! Obviously on purpose (unconsciously) to expose her smelly love chemicals to me.

- Another girl in the grocery store, took out her earphones as I walked by her.

Recent Mistakes

The biggest mistakes I have been making are ejecting too early (pretty typical) and failing to transition into a new topic quickly if the topic i open with bombs. or, failing to transition into flirting if i get caught talking about boring platonic stuff with women. The last issue is that I'm neglecting to close - I get caught up in old ways of thinking...stuff like "it's too soon" or "i can't find a good opportunity to close" But that doesn't matter! As long as the chemistry is there, I can just transition into a yes ladder to close. I keep forgetting to use yes ladders.

She Blew Me Off - Even Though She Wanted Me

I was standing on a street corner. There was a girl crossing the street. She looked at me multiple times, looked down, had a look of apprehension on her face mixed in with some somber look. She looked like someone I know from back home, so I planned to use that as an opener as she walked by:

Fog: hey *pause*
Fog: you remind me of....
Girl *doesn't even look at me, walks right by me and continues to walk*


WTF? I wonder if I should have tried catching up to her. Maybe she thought i was talking to someone else, or maybe she thought i was too unattainable to talk to. I can see why being warm is important.

Other Approaches - Face Fucker

I opened this one older lady, standing around. She had the type of face that looks like it was made for face fucking. Reached the social hook point immediately, but then we started talking about what we do for a living:

Her: What do you do?
Me: I do marketing


This was the worst thing to say! I should have said something like this

Her: What do you do?
Me: Mostly blondes but I think you'll do


The conversation quickly turned into networking, which I was unhappy with and didn't have a chance to transition out of before her bus arrived a few moments later. She was a business owner - I feel as though this automatically placed me as lower value, and I would have had to do some reframing to let her know I'm in charge.

Other Approaches - Avoiding The Sales Pitch

On the sidewalk, there were these two girls trying to get donations for kids with medical issues. As I was walking by them, I saw Girl 1 get ignored by this one dude. I wave at her and say, "hey! I'll talk to you :)" Immediately, we click. Soon I'm in conversation with Girl 1 and Girl 2 and we're laughing and having a good time. After all the flirting, I made the mistake of asking how they knew each other, which led into Girl 2 putting on her sales pitch and trying to solicit me for a donation:

girl 2: *getting into a sales pitch. starts talking a lot.*
fog: sorry i didnt hear any of that. lets talk about romance


It was a jerk move of me to do this, and my attainability dropped, which caused her to hand me off to girl 2:

girl 2: she (girl 1) is the romantic one. im cynical
fog: what, a sexual predator?
girl 1: *ignores* cynical, dont you guys know what that means?
fog: so youre romantic? *gazes into girl 2 eyes*
girl 2: *giggles*


By the time I ejected, girl 2 was acting quite shy around me. She had a stuffed animal with her and she was hiding her face behind it like a little girl.

Other Approaches - Black & White

Walking home from work, I walked up to these two black girls wearing white. They were standing in a crowd of people wearing white:

Fog: this is a lot of white! What's it for?
Girls: blablabla some event blabla
Girl 2: you should go put on some white and come with us, it'll be fun :)
Fog: ooo peer pressure. All peer pressure is bad.
Girl 2: no not all peer pressure is bad, some of it is good.
Fog: No, all of it is bad. Anyways *turns to girl 2 and changes subject*


I ejected shortly after. Girl 2 liked me right off the bat, and I wonder what the effect of me holding my frame so strongly, having the last say and then changing the subject so quickly was.

I felt some immediate friction at her suggestion for me to join them. It seemed like too big of a compliance suggestion when I had just met them, and it actually sort of turned me off of her. Maybe I'd have been more open to it if she used a yes ladder haahahah
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:31 pm

Summary

I discuss:

- two approaches i did in painstaking detail (i wanna improve sooo bad)
- an amusing approach invitation I received earlier today
- the attraction towards me I've noticed from some hired guns in my area, and my plan to pick them up.
- moments where i go into "god mode"
- a noticeable increase in my instincts, likely due to testosterone

Amusing Approach Invitation

I was standing around waiting for my bus after work. A girl was walking by me. She was staring at me. When our eyes met, she broke eye contact and gave her head a strong shake. Then she shook it again. I laughed. Perhaps she got too caught up in her daydream about me.

SIDE NOTE: Sometimes I will be weirdly drawn to girls I see. It's not attraction, I just feel some sort of weird pull towards them. And when I walk by these girls, they give me strong approach invitations. I believe this could be natural sexual compatibility.

Hired Guns

I have been flirting with some of the girls who are cashiers in stores in my neighbourhood. Normally I'd consider them to be out of my league...but not anymore. :) I plan to get their numbers. Here's where I'm at with them.

I was at the grocery store. The cashier who was checking me out was a straight haired blonde girl.

Girl: do you need any bags?
Fog: 1. *pause* maybe 2.
Girl: [smiles]


She was not smiling politely. She was slightly amused. It appears I had gone into "god mode" when I replied to her answer. My vocal tone and delivery was perfect. I delivered it in a slightly amusing way, but not like I was trying to be amusing. And I said it in a very relaxed way. I tried emulating this vocal tone later, but could not achieve it.

Girl: [Hands me the receipt]
Fog: [Looks at her, mischeviously]
Girl: [Looks at me back, giving me a very sexual look]


I could not believe that this girl was looking at me like this! It further cemented the idea in my head that you only need to say one thing to make a big impact. In this case, I believe the ultra cool way I delivered this line, as well as my vibe, made her attracted to me.

I was also getting a coffee at mcdonalds. There's this indian cashier who I've ordered from twice now. She is responsive to my playful vibe. The first time I saw her, I accidentally made a joke that she didn't understand. Rather than trying to explain it, I just said never mind. But the second time, as I went up to her, she stuck out her tongue in a flirty, mischievous way. Ahh it was so incredible.

God Mode

I mentioned that I used this vocal tone that I am certain made the cashier attracted to me, but I was unable to replicate it afterwards. There's been some other instances where this has happened. One instance happened recently.

I was waiting for my bus after work. Usually I do the contrastapo pose, while tilting my head up and to the side. 100s of people pass by me as I do this. Not often does this pose feel natural. But one time I was doing this pose, and it did feel natural, and there was this hot girl who was abnormally interested in me as she walked by. I've never had someone so interested in me from doing that pose. It was because it felt natural in the moment!

Approach 1

two girls were staring me down as i walked by.

me: i saw that look! [bad opener, weird vocal tone]
girl 1: oh i was just telling my mom how you do it so well.
me: do what well?
girl 1: your pants! you wear them really well.
me: well thank you. they’re from the 60s.
girls: oh wow
me: ya i love them
girl 1: i love when people express themselves.


after she said this, i should have mirrored her vocal tone, and built similarity. but i said this:

me: ya i feel like some people are afraid to express themselves…..[not getting any response from the girl] soo ya…...
girls: [says nothing, but is intently looking at me]
me: i see youre drinking some monster
girl 1: ya its not a regular thing [protecting her rep?], i just needed it to come out and about today
me: i would need one to go out with my mom too, shes crazy
girls: [laughs and looking at me like they’re expecting something from me.]
me: i can tell shes your mom, you guys look alike.
girls: *looking at each other and laughing but saying nothing*
me: alrigtht well have a good day


I can’t figure it out. It seems like they didn’t know what to say. Why would they just keep laughing and laughing while looking at me expectantly and hanging around? I ejected because at the time it seemed like the conversation had come to a normal close. If they were nervous, maybe I needed to give them a few minutes to chill out while i slowly built investment and compliance. If I had tested for compliance and they declined, then I would have gotten better insight into whether they were wasting my time or not.

Anyways, Girl 1 was expressing interest in me and my values. And she took charge and started a conversation topic, but my answer crashed and burned it. Idk it was the wrong thing to say…too negative I think. It was the perfect opportunity to get her talking more about this topic and really hit off a vibe with her. I could have challenged a little bit and asked her how she likes to express herself. Or I could have been enthusiastic and built up some quick similarity with her by agreeing with her and saying that I love expressing myself too and it feels so good. Or I could have asked why she likes when people express themselves.

There seemed to be no initial chemistry and this was just regular platonic conversation with no substance. I didn’t have a sexual vibe. I’ve trained myself to mostly say statements. Maybe in this case questions would have been better, and I should have launched into something more serious…. considering they were hooked, and probably attracted….I just needed to build comfort.

Approach 2

i was standing side by side with a girl at a stoplight on the sidewalk, waiting for the crosslight to turn green so we could walk. i made a quick motion with my hands while looking at her to test her receptiveness. she looked at me:

me: hey, are you from around here?
her: yes i am
me: like you’ve been to this area before?
her: yes [full attention is now on me]


in the corner of my eye i saw some old man looking at us [waiting with us at the light] curious about what’s going on. The light turns green and he crosses. but we stay.

I was feigning the “looking for directions” sort of vibe. I quickly transitioned into something else:

me: oohh, alright. wheres your accent from?
her: I’m from spain
me: so you came all the way to canada from spain? [a little awkward here]
her: yes
me: why not the USA?

I’m looking into her eyes and she’s doing the eye scanning. I believe she looked at my lips real quick too. I knew she was attracted. I should have skipped straight to less platonic talk. I thought about touching her here. I had the strangest urge to touch her. But I didn’t. The voice in my head said “no, it’s too early.” Stupid beta voice.

She starts investing:

her: i am going to school here and the quality of education is way better than any other country.
me: i see. so youre going to school here? watcha taking
her: I’m taking business of [indistinguishable] and then I’m going to go back to spain when I’m done.
me: youre gonna be a business owner in spain! [a little awkward here]
her: no, i have a job there already
me: doing what
her: [talks about job]
me: [in my head thinking about what to do next]
me: sorry could you repeat that? [this was awkward]
her: [indistinguishable, shes confused]
me: no i was just curious about your job
her: oh i manage a group of 20 people blalbla


I started touching her during this chunk of the conversation. At certain points she was looking away, as if wondering if she should leave. It was interesting because when she did this, I raised my voice and she would snap back to looking at me right away. Interesting technique. This happened unconsciously. I remember seeing some guy in a bar one time trying to pick up two girls at once (probably hue lol). When one of the girls looked away from him, he grabbed her face and turned it to him. I thought about moving her a few feet away from the sidewalk at this point, but I didn’t. In hindsight I believe that would have been a good idea. It would have made her invest more and would solidify things, and prevent her from looking away.

Either way, when I made her repeat what she was doing for work, I knew it was important to get off this topic right away.

me: So i’ve heard people say that spain is really romantic, is it true?
her: [indistinguishable nonsense] i couldnt really understand what she was saying. But she was not talking about romance. She was talking more about how the people here were friendly.


Me: Do you eat food?
Her: yes good food
Me: do i seem like a friendly person?
Her: nice to meet you [touches my arm, walks off]


Analysis

She took off really quick once I started the yes ladder. She knew I was asking her on a date lol.

I should have angled for an instadate. She seemed really immersed in me in the beginning and had totally forgot about crossing.

I think she felt tricked by my yes ladder. She knew what was going on. I believe I will add a qualifier after my yes ladders. It would have come in handy in this situation.

This trickery, combined with some of my other mistakes, caused me to appear weird. My conversation was a little rough (bad transitions), I raised my voice at certain points, and I even feigned excitement at one point. Idk why, it was really unsexy though. All of this was probably a little incongruent and raised her alarm bells.

I did not persist when she walked away. I have a persistence problem that needs to be fixed.

I should have followed my urges.

On top of that, the language barrier probably added too much ....negative compliance...? between us.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:33 pm

Summary

- 2 approaches in detail
- A gay guy approaches me and asks for my number

Approach 1

After walking around for a bit with approach anxiety and ignoring a ton of approach invitations, I notice this blonde girl in yoga pants standing around on the sidewalk, looking at her phone intermittently. I walk up to her:

Me: [waves to get her attention]


We make eye contact, and are holding it:

Me: you single? [said in a gruff voice, with a down tone]
Her: [holding eye contact with an amused, slightly incredulous look on her face] *shakes her head*


It wasnt a negative facial expression. She goes back to looking at her phone, with three fingers covering her lips (thinking or hiding a smile?). I stand there, looking around, wondering how to counteract this lack of investment. Should I try to get her attention again nonverbally? Should I ask her a yes/no question, which would require slightly more investment to answer?

Finally, after what seems like 200 dog years of silence, I ask her:

Me: so you were just at the gym?
Her: I'm waiting for my uber [dismissive tone]
Me: Same [walks off]


This was one of the hottest girls I've ever approached. On top of that, this was my first time opening direct in months. I felt a little nervous and cloudy headed because I opened direct, which impacted my ability to think.

Was she actually single? Her facial expression was not dismissive, and there was a period of time after I delivered the opener, but before she shook her head, where it seemed like she was considering what to say. Her low investment answer using body language was likely a test. (was this a rebuff?)

How do I play the low investment game? There's been times where girls have initially blown me out but I have managed to turn it around and get them talking to me. This was always when I had a lot of social momentum, and unfortunately I can't remember these conversations.

What I would have done was asked her another question shortly after her head shake. I think the silence was waaaay too long. Asking her about the gym was just dumb. Like I said it's been a while since I went direct. In the past when I've gone direct and the girl tells me she has a boyfriend, I usually say something along the lines of:

Fog: Oh, so you're married.


or

Fog: That's fine, I'm not trying to get in the way of you two.


Perhaps a tease here would have been good as well. Really unsure about what to say, but I know what I should have said next would be something low-investment on my part, that required slightly more investment than a head nod on her part.

Approach 2

I am standing at the bus stop on the sidewalk. There is this girl walking towards me. She stops, 10 feet away, at the other end of the bus stop, looking at this pole (the pole has this number on it you can text to see when the next bus is coming). I don't believe it's an approach invitation. I contemplate walking over to her and opening her direct. I dismiss this idea, it'd be too awkward if she said no and we had to wait for the bus together. As I'm thinking, I realize the approach window has been open for a while now and, if she's noticed me, she would probably think it'd be weird that I walked over to her after all this time. On top of that, just straight up walking up to her would be too obvious.

However, she walks towards me - it appears she is leaving the bus stop. We make eye contact:

Fog: yo hey
Girl: hey [radiant smile with teeth, looked a little nervous]
Fog: What's up
Girl: [Indistinguishable] Keeps walking.


I was about to tell her to wait. Except, whenever I tell a girl to wait as she's walking away, it never works and I feel really chasey doing it. Before I can come up with an alternate reply, she's already gone.

She probably did not realize it was a conversation. Here's what I would have done differently: I would have said, "just a sec", walked with her, and then gone direct with her to cement the fact that I'm tryinga have a conversation with her.

Approached by a Gay Guy

This happened right after I left my house to go out and game. I walk around the corner. There is this guy and this girl walking by. The guy stops me quite abruptly and asks where I'm going. Initially I suspect he's a tranny. Once I get a better look at him, I realize he's gay.

I'm caught off guard because I didn't have an excuse prepared for what I was going off to do. I was dressed real 80s, so I told him I was going to an 80s dance party. But this backfired - he inquired and told me he was interested in coming along. Next thing you know, this happens:

Gay Guy: can i get your #?
Fog: idk man, youre gonna have a hard time with me, cuz I'm straight.
Gay Guy: ohhh, I'm straight too...STRAIGHT TO BED!


I'm standing there, still feeling really thrown off guard that this is happening and that he's hitting on me and being so sexually aggressive with me. I hadn't even had time to process yet the reality that he had approached me. I can imagine that this is what it's like for a girl when she gets approached. Another testament to my rule: don't be abrupt!

I get him to give me his number (so as to not let him down too hard) and we're staring into each other's eyes saying goodbye (sounds really gay lol):

Gay Guy: brown hair, blue eyes, i like it......
me: ...
Gay Guy: Make sure to t-t-touch base with me [said nervously]


I leave and go to the bus stop, then some chick at the bus stop opens me. Didn't go well, i wasn't prepared for that either.
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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby Hue » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:49 pm

I get him to give me his number (so as to not let him down too hard) and we're staring into each other's eyes saying goodbye (sounds really gay lol):

Gay Guy: brown hair, blue eyes, i like it......
me: ...
Gay Guy: Make sure to t-t-touch base with me [said nervously]


I leave and go to the bus stop, then some chick at the bus stop opens me. Didn't go well, i wasn't prepared for that either.


Now imagine you as a hot girl and the gay guy as an inexperienced you :P

Partly why I stopped going for numbers so much!
Always be a student.
Hue

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Re: songbird fog talks about women

Postby fog » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:29 pm

Hue wrote:Now imagine you as a hot girl and the gay guy as an inexperienced you :P

lol brings back memories hue!

The Tinder Special Edition

In this special edition of "songbird fog talks about women" I detail 3 conversations I've had recently with tinder girls including:

1. WITCH, the girl who wants to cast a spell on me while we're fucking
2. Socially awkward Nelly, the girl who rushed to get on my good side after my response to her calling me gay
3. Yes Ladder Yanny, the girl who just couldn't say no to me!

Witch

fog: sushi is otherworldly
witch: which is exactly why I'm into it
fog: have you ever had someone cast a spell on you during sex
witch: i usually do the spell casting, would you be into that?
fog: yes, as long as you have positive intentions
witch: you should never do magick if your intentions aren't pure
witch: i want you to feel like i swallowed your soul after we're done fucking tho so if thats what you consider spell casting during sex i can definitely help with that


Socially Awkward Nelly

girl: are you sure I’m your type
fog: my type is girls i have chemistry with
girl: i thought you were gay tbh
fog: hmmm?
girl: your photos have that vibe
girl: maybe you just have good style
fog: maybe ;p
girl: i have a pretty good gaydar idk
fog: maybe you need to upgrade the software
fog: u wanna know what i thought about you
girl: sure
girl: its gonna be something mean but I’m ready
fog: i thought
fog: “wow”
girl: aww
girl: maybe youre not gay aftwrall
fog: “wow…that guy on the left in your third pic"
girl: hahaha
girl: hes a ladies man
girl: i can introduce you
fog: no thanks i have a better idea
girl: what is it
fog: are you ready to hear it?
girl: i think so
girl: i go fuck myself
fog: nonon, dont do that
fog: you drink liquids right?
girl: i believe so
fog: me + you, drinks sometime
girl: this is not going according to plan
girl: are you trying to prove your heterosexuality
fog: *eye roll emoji*
fog: whats your schedule like over the next week
girl: I’m sorry i didnt mean to be mean
girl: doesnt matter if youre straight or gay just be happy with who you are and who cares what anyone says or thinks
fog: im not gay sophia
girl: thats fine too
fog: this conversation is starting to go downhill :)
girl: oh well


i dont say anything after this. Then she starts chasing:

girl: i like your style.
girl: nice docs
fog: aw, thanks soph :)
girl: could you style me?
girl: that would be a fun date
girl: i dont think i could pull off a leopard coat and blue earmuffs though
fog: that actually does sound like a fun time
girl: i love how you pull it off
girl: maybe thats why i called you gay cuz I’m suboncsiocusly jealous that you have better style than i ever will
fog: dont be so hard on yourself. i will help you become stylish and we will take over the fashion world together
girl: damn i dont know if I’m ready


I went to bed after she said this. I thought my attainability was fine, especially after the "we could take over the world " statement.

Buuut, I was disappointed when i woke up and found out she had deleted me. She had low self esteem and was obviously a sensitive person. Probably overthought things and felt embarrassed about what happened,.

Going to bed and not replying is never attainable, and this conversation provides me further insight into my developing strategy for sensitive girls aka amiables.

Yes Ladder Yanny

fog: lol nice bio :)
fog: surprisingly it tells me everything i need to know about you!
yanny: haha well, what can i say? i try to be original while still maintaining my laziness
fog: minimal effort for maximal results, is that what youre saying [active listening]
yanny: exactly
yanny: any excuse to use the word maximal
fog: you gave me an idea.
yanny: a good idea?
fog: this is the best idea of all time and im going to share it with you. are you ready?
yanny: i am ready for this jelly
fog: first let me ask you this: do you consume alcohol or other forms of liquids
yanny: i am a human so yes
yanny: i actually work at the tea shop so, actually probably drink too much
fog: okay here's the idea: you + me, drinks sometime, mixed with a tad of maximality
yanny: haha well how can i say no to that?


no one can say no to yes ladders

jeezy: is it possible to have just a tad of maximality?
fog: i think so yeezy i will explain when we meet up
jeezy: alright so, if this really is the best idea ever, what's the plan?
Fog: good question. what's your schedule like for the rest of the week?
jeezy: friday is my roommates birthday so she has a whole itinerary for that day/night. and i work a closing shift on saturday night, but im off on sunday
jeezy: i possibly might have some time tomorrow night.
Fog: ok, how about Sunday evening? We can sort out specifics closer to the date
jeezy: sure sounds good!
Fog: okay cool! Definitely gonna be interested in hearing about the shenanigans that happened at your rooomates party when we meet lol
Janelle: ooooh ill definitely have loads of stories, my roommates are hilariously insane, haha. We always have a good time.


This was on wednesday and we scheduled it for sunday, which was a little far away at the time. I messaged her and continued the conversation today, but I think it was too long to wait to reply. Waiting to see if she'll flake.
fog

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