the reason most men will never have success with women



the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:36 am

most men will never have success with women because they are caught up in negative frames regarding women. they frame women as all power having. women just have frames. society even frames things in a way that pedastalizes women. do you think women are these ultra high self esteem women? no most hate themselves. So do most men. That's actually the reason most men won't get good. they're living in self hate like most women but without society telling them they're great. women are just confused about why some people think they're amazing and intrigued when some are not impressed.

but most guy can't treat women like equals. they treat them like superiors. this is a low value frame. treating women as inferiors is a high value narcissist style of game and definitely the most effective. but most guys will never be able to treat women as even equals.

there is a wealth of information telling you what high value men do. but there was a recent post saying approaching is low value. you think leo even hesitates to approach? fuck no. he is like ten times higher status than anyone who isn't another celebrity. i'll guarn-damn-tee that he approaches any girl he wants to. but from a low value frame you'll justify your own behavior as being high value and identify a high value behavior as being low value. this ensures you won't do it. you've already villainized this behavior. so you're fucked. that is why you'll never get good. because you can even open yourself up to the possibility you might be wrong.

it's crazy every forum has a handful of people who claim good results and they all will describe some form of inner game as being the underlying foundation for whatever style of outter game they use: structured, hybrid, natural. all require strong inner game and entitlement. this is getting good at honest signals, signals which are hard to fake. that means you have to internalize shit.

you must have a strong defined perception of your reality that is possible. when your head questions it you tell your head to shut the fuck up. you have to be strong about this shit. you should have the following frames to guide your reality:

sex is not wrong
girls love sex
girls love fucking me
i'm the shit
i'm fucking awesome
chicks wanna buy me stuff
chicks want my validation
every girl wants to fuck me, if she doesn't it's because of x, y, or z reason. with this one i can admit it is delusional. all girls don't want to fuck me. i still interpret everything they say as that they want to fuck me
i don't need any validation at this moment. be patient for success.
i'm the prize - women want to win me over. this one is super powerful. the world prize in your head pumps you up.

there's plenty more. but i would say everyone who is good at game believes most of those things. i know a lot of guys with game that don't realize chicks wanna buy them stuff, but that's the only one. some guys are so stuck in their head that they have to pay. but some of those guys still do well. it's not a death sentence, just a weak frame.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby metalbird » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:15 pm

The reason most men will never have success with women is due to lack of fundamentals. No amount of game will make up for being ugly/poor/dumb. And while there are measures a man can take to improve these things, a lot of them are environmentally/genetically determined to a large degree. It's really just survival of the fittest.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:49 pm

if you’re ugly your fucked. but poor and dumb guys are getting laid all the time. i gotta ask, what is your level. i’m a high six low seven in looks and can pull models. my lay count is in the hundreds. sometimes you have to realize when you’re. a monday morning quarterback and let go of beliefs that hold you back.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby metalbird » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:58 pm

naturalmikey wrote:if you’re ugly your fucked. but poor and dumb guys are getting laid all the time. i gotta ask, what is your level. i’m a high six low seven in looks and can pull models. my lay count is in the hundreds. sometimes you have to realize when you’re. a monday morning quarterback and let go of beliefs that hold you back.


I'm a solid five for looks. Unfortunate.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:19 pm

naturalmikey wrote:if you’re ugly your fucked. but poor and dumb guys are getting laid all the time. i gotta ask, what is your level. i’m a high six low seven in looks and can pull models. my lay count is in the hundreds. sometimes you have to realize when you’re. a monday morning quarterback and let go of beliefs that hold you back.


You got to hundreds of lays during your mid 30s? Or did you get laid a lot before you when you were younger then got out the game and just started back up once you were single?

Because if you got hundreds of lays in your mid 30s and you’re only 37, that’s like 3 years. How did you pull it off?

I just seen another post of yours talking about all men would want to sleep with 100 women, that’s what I want to do as well.

Been wanting this for a while, but haven’t gotten near there yet and I’m moving at a snails pace. Game got so bad I got tired of it and got into a relationship for years. So after that I gained a lot of fat and barely improved myself besides getting a useless degree.

I dumped the chick and now I’m back losing weight and back to dating, but for some reason dating is extremely difficult for me, getting attracting is easy, but getting the dates and lays is where I struggle at.

Anyway, that’s where I am now and I really wanna get to 100 lays, but I have so many things I’m dealing with that it seems to hard to reach and these lays are not coming easy at all to even think I could get to 100.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:08 pm

i was at maybe 50 at 34. i know i had at least ten a couple years, but very inconsistent. i also spent a chunk of that married. probably 75 the first year with 70+ coming from tinder. the following year i really caught traction with cold approach. it took a year. but then i hit the ground running. probably hit another 75 in the next year and a half. mostly cold approach, some social circle and online dating. then the past year i was in a relationship. didn’t cheat much so only added a couple partners. i’m somewhere in the 200 range. hundreds is admittedly being cocky.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:43 pm

naturalmikey wrote:i was at maybe 50 at 34. i know i had at least ten a couple years, but very inconsistent. i also spent a chunk of that married. probably 75 the first year with 70+ coming from tinder. the following year i really caught traction with cold approach. it took a year. but then i hit the ground running. probably hit another 75 in the next year and a half. mostly cold approach, some social circle and online dating. then the past year i was in a relationship. didn’t cheat much so only added a couple partners. i’m somewhere in the 200 range. hundreds is admittedly being cocky.


Was it very time consuming sleeping with 70 chicks a year? Were many of the dates same day/night lays?

What was your formula to make things consistent ?

I see online is really the key, but this shit is not working for me or anything else.

I don’t know what the hell im doing wrong, but all these girls I’m matching with are going to waste and it’s extremely frustrating dealing with this.

Idk why this has to be so fuckin difficult for me, online seems to really be the key to all of this shit.

My head hurts from all of this. I just got on online dating months ago for the first time, but this shit is absolutely going nowhere and I don’t understand why.

Everyone is getting success but me.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:49 am

what do you look like? where do you live. you may have to move and get in shape. most men will never hit 100.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:42 am

Sub-Zero wrote:
naturalmikey wrote:i was at maybe 50 at 34. i know i had at least ten a couple years, but very inconsistent. i also spent a chunk of that married. probably 75 the first year with 70+ coming from tinder. the following year i really caught traction with cold approach. it took a year. but then i hit the ground running. probably hit another 75 in the next year and a half. mostly cold approach, some social circle and online dating. then the past year i was in a relationship. didn’t cheat much so only added a couple partners. i’m somewhere in the 200 range. hundreds is admittedly being cocky.


Was it very time consuming sleeping with 70 chicks a year? Were many of the dates same day/night lays?

What was your formula to make things consistent ?

I see online is really the key, but this shit is not working for me or anything else.

I don’t know what the hell im doing wrong, but all these girls I’m matching with are going to waste and it’s extremely frustrating dealing with this.

Idk why this has to be so fuckin difficult for me, online seems to really be the key to all of this shit.

My head hurts from all of this. I just got on online dating months ago for the first time, but this shit is absolutely going nowhere and I don’t understand why.

Everyone is getting success but me.


they were almost all same night. i ran rsd style game and just spiked the fuck out of their emotions and escalated. i made a couple girls cry and then ended hooking up with them. the biggest thing is i had to make myself escalate even when i was scared. sometimes i'd go to the bathroom and be like "if you don't do this nothing is gonna happen." remember i was sober at the time because that's what rsd said to do. i'm glad i got the experience. it was terrifying i digress, it became a rush. a lot of the time i was getting in arguments with girls and making out five minutes later. i used rsd max's style of tinder texting and it worked well too. i still use a lot of his lines. and it was only tiring when it wasn't working. sometimes i would consistently fuck 2-5 girls per week. then there would be a month or two where i wouldn't get laid. i don't get laid as much now, but i never go a month.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:42 am

naturalmikey wrote:what do you look like? where do you live. you may have to move and get in shape. most men will never hit 100.


I’m a muscular black dude above 6ft with long curly hair, I have some fat I gotta drop, but I still get matches and I still get girls in person at the club and bars.

I just can’t get dates and lays at all for some reason. I can get a girl to commit to me if I fuck her, but can’t make that happen with no date.

I live down south and I used to live on the east coast. I wouldn’t say location matters that much because I know black dudes get chicks where I’m at and I still get girl’s attraction, but it was the same on the east coast too.

I have been called sexy, attractive, and handsome my whole life and women would chase me, but now women want to be chased and for some reason it’s difficult af to me for some reason.

So I got the basic attraction down, but these chicks just don’t want to go out or just fuck, it’s like pulling teeth. I even see dudes who didn’t get laid at all getting laid with only online.

Idk wtf is going on.

What is rsd style game?

What is the rsd max tinder game?
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:44 am

I’m also in a tough spot because I actually quit and nothing changed. I got a girl, I stopped dating, etc.

So me putting off women and focusing on other things didn’t work for me.

So I have to get this down and succeed.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby JacobPalmer » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:21 am

naturalmickey - could you post some rsdmax text game, maybe in a different post?
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:29 am

i created a new bumble a couple nights ago. here is an example of me scheduling a date with a hot 21 year old. other than my first message it’s apl lines. steal my lines and structure if you want.

https://imgur.com/a/lhAGLxt
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby JacobPalmer » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:36 am

naturalmikey wrote:i created a new bumble a couple nights ago. here is an example of me scheduling a date with a hot 21 year old. other than my first message it’s apl lines. steal my lines and structure if you want.

https://imgur.com/a/lhAGLxt


Well that was quick and easy. :) Any idea of what the response rate/meetup rate overall is for that structure? I've tried something similar myself but it doesn't work quite as well once the structure starts (although could be different locations, I'm in Vancouver/Canada

Would love to see a few other example too, just to get more of a feel for it.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:20 pm

i shared that script on another girl in another thread. i'm just really good at converting matches to dates. i just kinda make a judgement on if she needs to be qualified or not and game her accordingly. i think pace is more important than almost anything. being slower to respond than her. plus use a bio that makes you seem very "free." women love a guy who is free. i'm kind of a hippie actually.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:22 pm

here’s some good text game

https://imgur.com/a/misc2Sm
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:03 am

Image

this bitch. she suggested friday. then she’s like oh well i gotta go to long beach after. what she’s doing is trying to find out if i’m the kinda guy that’ll kowtow to her. anyway i picture myself like her father saying to her “no sweetie we’ll get together when we’re actually fucking free.” she’s just like “oh wow i get to be submissive i’m getting wet.” and she complies.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:51 am

Yeah I like your type of game Mikey and it seems that’s what I’ll have to do.

I tried all the small talk getting to know to you questions and still get left on read by some chicks.

I like the no bullshit what are you looking for question.

I still get some girls ignoring it, but I feel better getting that shit out the way.

So 100 women is my goal.

What would you recommend to focus on to reach that within a few years?

I know there’s an article on here about raising notch count, but I gotta get my life straight before changing my life with one of those girl getting jobs.

I also still wanna pull on my own, this is something I need to correct to get things going.

I honestly feel I have the fundamentals down pretty well atm, I just gotta lose fat and game more to gerbil my convo up.

But like I said attracting isn’t the problem. It’s the getting dates.

Right now, it’s like a puzzle I can not find the piece to fit, but once I find it and complete the puzzle, everything will flow after that.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:37 am

i'd say build a large funnel and stay in touch with them. best times to text are between 11-noon (pre lunch) and after six. these times will get you the best response rate. keep in touch. by touching sometimes you'll just happen to be the guy who hits her up when she's horny. phone numbers + snapchat. that's how i got good. i exagerated my amount from tinder in first year. i just wasn't getting same night lays. but a lot of those numbers were from cold approach. it doesn't matter how many tactics you use, if you don't think you're good enough with girls. getting good inner game is not easy. but it happens. a lot of coaches try to go straight to inner game. this is stupid. every pua out there has ptsd. do i know this is true? no. but i'm pretty damn sure it is. that's why so many push trauma work on everyone. but for me i needed to know that fucking a hundred girls didn't work before i was gonna start looking at myself. i shared a link to swinggcat's real world seduction. try using some of his tactics. it will come across very strange for a black guy to come off so indirect. this is actually something swinggcat calls an apposition of opposites and a good thing.

just keep at it. keep a large funnel and stay in contact. be the right place at the right time guy. it wasn't easy, but it was pretty awesome.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby JacobPalmer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:18 am

naturalmikey wrote:here’s some good text game

https://imgur.com/a/misc2Sm


This doesn't explain anything lol.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:38 pm

JacobPalmer wrote:
naturalmikey wrote:here’s some good text game

https://imgur.com/a/misc2Sm


This doesn't explain anything lol.


not at all. it's pretty easy to get a bisexual stripper over when you have a model posing in your living room.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby JacobPalmer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:01 pm

naturalmikey wrote:
JacobPalmer wrote:
naturalmikey wrote:here’s some good text game

https://imgur.com/a/misc2Sm


This doesn't explain anything lol.


not at all. it's pretty easy to get a bisexual stripper over when you have a model posing in your living room.


I think you're being sarcastic but can't quite tell haha.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby strictlyincreasing » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:19 pm

metalbird wrote:The reason most men will never have success with women is due to lack of fundamentals. No amount of game will make up for being ugly/poor/dumb. And while there are measures a man can take to improve these things, a lot of them are environmentally/genetically determined to a large degree. It's really just survival of the fittest.


This is it exactly. I disagree with the OP and agree with this. With fundamentals, you either have them or you don't. Look at Hector's story. Back when he was a video game playing nerd with no social skills, he had ladies agreeing to be his girlfriend. Yet guys on here are in shape, with their lives, social skills and social life in order but can't get girls. How could Hector do it so easily before he knew anything about seduction or game? His natural fundamentals! It's the same for you, naturalmikey. You're a 9/10; we have all seen your photos mate so no need to be humble!

The frames that you listed in your opening post can't just be obtained by imagining or thinking about them. They come from actually experiencing and seeing them. It's the same thing with the abundance mentality One must see or feel abundance to have the mentality. Men with poor fundamentals are not the prize and do not have lots of options. Imagine having to do 30 approaches to get a solid (non flake) phone number. That's the reality for a few guys I know with poor fundamentals. That's at least 4 hours of work to get a date. It's likely more than 4 hours of course. But a guy like that is not going to feel like a prize. He is not going to feel like women want his validation. He is not going to feel like he is awesome. That's not because he has a negative mindset (who could do 30 approaches to get a date and have a negative mindset... you need a strong mentality) but because all the evidence that he is seeing in his daily life is telling him that he's not a prize, that the average woman does not want him and that he is not so special. It's not so difficult to figure out. Don't even get me started on Tinder. If you can organize a date in 30 minutes on Tinder, then that's another thing you have above the guy who has to do 30 approaches per date. Tinder and apps just separate the guys with good fundamentals from the guys with poor fundamentals, making the gap even larger.

It's not a crime to have excellent fundamentals like yours. But please do not go around blaming men for their troubles when most guys do not have your opportunities, primarily because of their fundamentals. You did work hard to make the most of your opportunities and learn and that's more than most guys can say. But there are a hundred guys with poor fundamentals who would love to have that opportunity, and their minds are not in the wrong place.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby JacobPalmer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:24 pm

strictlyincreasing wrote:
metalbird wrote:The reason most men will never have success with women is due to lack of fundamentals. No amount of game will make up for being ugly/poor/dumb. And while there are measures a man can take to improve these things, a lot of them are environmentally/genetically determined to a large degree. It's really just survival of the fittest.


This is it exactly. I disagree with the OP and agree with this. With fundamentals, you either have them or you don't. Look at Hector's story. Back when he was a video game playing nerd with no social skills, he had ladies agreeing to be his girlfriend. Yet guys on here are in shape, with their lives, social skills and social life in order but can't get girls. How could Hector do it so easily before he knew anything about seduction or game? His natural fundamentals! It's the same for you, naturalmikey. You're a 9/10; we have all seen your photos mate so no need to be humble!

The frames that you listed in your opening post can't just be obtained by imagining or thinking about them. They come from actually experiencing and seeing them. It's the same thing with the abundance mentality One must see or feel abundance to have the mentality. Men with poor fundamentals are not the prize and do not have lots of options. Imagine having to do 30 approaches to get a solid (non flake) phone number. That's the reality for a few guys I know with poor fundamentals. That's at least 4 hours of work to get a date. It's likely more than 4 hours of course. But a guy like that is not going to feel like a prize. He is not going to feel like women want his validation. He is not going to feel like he is awesome. That's not because he has a negative mindset (who could do 30 approaches to get a date and have a negative mindset... you need a strong mentality) but because all the evidence that he is seeing in his daily life is telling him that he's not a prize, that the average woman does not want him and that he is not so special. It's not so difficult to figure out. Don't even get me started on Tinder. If you can organize a date in 30 minutes on Tinder, then that's another thing you have above the guy who has to do 30 approaches per date. Tinder and apps just separate the guys with good fundamentals from the guys with poor fundamentals, making the gap even larger.

It's not a crime to have excellent fundamentals like yours. But please do not go around blaming men for their troubles when most guys do not have your opportunities, primarily because of their fundamentals. You did work hard to make the most of your opportunities and learn and that's more than most guys can say. But there are a hundred guys with poor fundamentals who would love to have that opportunity, and their minds are not in the wrong place.


Then increase your fundamentals. Those opportunities you're talking about can be made if the person is willing to put in the work. Very few people just "have" fundamentals. Most of them work hard for them. They learn how to act, dress, eat properly, exercise properly, become smarter, more socially adept etc. And anyone can do that. So I disagree, you should blame men for their poor fundamentals, because that's the only way they are ever going to wake up and start increasing them.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:50 pm

inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby JacobPalmer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:52 pm

naturalmikey wrote:inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.


Agreed, you have to know that you are the prize and come off in a cool, fun, calibrated way.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby metalbird » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Inner game is important. It might even be the biggest piece of the pie for most guys. But it's still far from a majority of the equation. You have to consider fundamentals, demographics, how picky you are, what age you are, what age of girls you're looking for, and many other factors. Most guys that do triple digits get there by sticking into an environment that well suits them. I think even Chase has mentioned this before, that the key to big numbers is finding a niche.

For example, a huge, muscular black guy might do extremely well in the inner city or in a culturally diverse area. A nerdy, hipster guy might do well in a college town. My experience has been, your environment plays a bigger role than the effort you put into being sharp.

For me personally, this becomes an issue because there are other things in my life that are important to me besides success with women. I've made choices in the interest of my career or my goals that have put me at a big disadvantage, by forcing me to live in places or accept lifestyle choices that were very non-conducive to the women in the area.

The biggest example of this was joining the military; back when I had a big beard and long hair, women used to approach me -- in hipster venues, at least. Once I had to go clean shaven and military regulation hair length, I couldn't pull off the intelligent nerdy look anymore. Also, living on military bases in the middle of nowhere don't help your numbers chances. But that was something that I did for me, and my life.

Sometimes having inner game means doing what you got to do and not getting women. Thoughts?
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby strictlyincreasing » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:09 am

naturalmikey wrote:inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.


6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Rain » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:33 am

strictlyincreasing wrote:
naturalmikey wrote:inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.


6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.


I thought there might be more to it than that, in terms of looks? eg face shape, body shape, skin condition, teeth condition can affect mens looks rating as opposed to just being 6ft and long hair and you're instantly a 7 or an 8?

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.


For me pesonally I do believe some of my fundamentals are stuck, but maybe not all of them. It is a struggle to have to do more approaches as you say.

Also have a read of this thread about looks and/or muscles vs game, in case it helps. It's locked but Chase and a few other highly ranked members have made posts.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15963

eg talks about how its good to try and do both fundamentals and game, but there are guys who only do good fundamentals with a little game and vice versa who can do very well with women if I understand the thread correctly. As well as muscles being only one part of fundamentals, not everything for example, or being tall. It's only one part of it. I'm not an expert just recycling what I've read by those with more experience than myself.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby strictlyincreasing » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:42 pm

Rain wrote:
strictlyincreasing wrote:
naturalmikey wrote:inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.


6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.


I thought there might be more to it than that, in terms of looks? eg face shape, body shape, skin condition, teeth condition can affect mens looks rating as opposed to just being 6ft and long hair and you're instantly a 7 or an 8?

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.


For me pesonally I do believe some of my fundamentals are stuck, but maybe not all of them. It is a struggle to have to do more approaches as you say.

Also have a read of this thread about looks and/or muscles vs game, in case it helps. It's locked but Chase and a few other highly ranked members have made posts.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15963

eg talks about how its good to try and do both fundamentals and game, but there are guys who only do good fundamentals with a little game and vice versa who can do very well with women if I understand the thread correctly. As well as muscles being only one part of fundamentals, not everything for example, or being tall. It's only one part of it. I'm not an expert just recycling what I've read by those with more experience than myself.


Those small things like teeth and body shape are worth less than 0.5 on the fundamentals scale. We have to look at men's fundamentals objectively, and try to do it through the eyes of a woman, not through the eyes of a man. Of course we men love facial structure, body shape etc. Women are less bothered and are more interested in his hair loss status, his height and his ethnic makeup. It's hard for us to recognize that.

Chase himself got some of his best results while overweight. That's how he got his first girlfriend and he even had a week of 3 lays when he was badly overweight. Similarly, Hector stopped working out and let his belly fat build up and had no difference in his results. The base fundamentals that I mentioned make up for 80% of your fundamentals and if you have all three, like naturalmikey has, then you get the full 80% i.e. you are 8/10 by default.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:19 am

black piller in the house lol
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:21 am

look at someone like jeremy soul. he has very good game. my results are going to be better looking girls. but he still is good. being good doesn’t mean dating way out of your league. dating slightly up is success. if you have stupid standards based on your looks then you won’t hace success. you really do level up with game. looks are probably the most important thing. but shit game will talk a dtf girl out of fucking your. looks determine your league. what you do in your league is up to you.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:22 am

strictlyincreasing wrote:
Rain wrote:
strictlyincreasing wrote:
naturalmikey wrote:inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.


6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.


I thought there might be more to it than that, in terms of looks? eg face shape, body shape, skin condition, teeth condition can affect mens looks rating as opposed to just being 6ft and long hair and you're instantly a 7 or an 8?

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.


For me pesonally I do believe some of my fundamentals are stuck, but maybe not all of them. It is a struggle to have to do more approaches as you say.

Also have a read of this thread about looks and/or muscles vs game, in case it helps. It's locked but Chase and a few other highly ranked members have made posts.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15963

eg talks about how its good to try and do both fundamentals and game, but there are guys who only do good fundamentals with a little game and vice versa who can do very well with women if I understand the thread correctly. As well as muscles being only one part of fundamentals, not everything for example, or being tall. It's only one part of it. I'm not an expert just recycling what I've read by those with more experience than myself.


Those small things like teeth and body shape are worth less than 0.5 on the fundamentals scale. We have to look at men's fundamentals objectively, and try to do it through the eyes of a woman, not through the eyes of a man. Of course we men love facial structure, body shape etc. Women are less bothered and are more interested in his hair loss status, his height and his ethnic makeup. It's hard for us to recognize that.

Chase himself got some of his best results while overweight. That's how he got his first girlfriend and he even had a week of 3 lays when he was badly overweight. Similarly, Hector stopped working out and let his belly fat build up and had no difference in his results. The base fundamentals that I mentioned make up for 80% of your fundamentals and if you have all three, like naturalmikey has, then you get the full 80% i.e. you are 8/10 by default.



Where are you getting your information from? Your definition of fundamentals doesn’t sound anything like what Chase writes about at all.

Chase just made an article about a month ago about being slim and In shape. He says if you want to do well with women you need to be in shape. He wrote that in his own article.

You make it sound as if men need to be fat rather than I shape to get women lol

There are many men that are white with full heads of hair and are over 6ft, I’m sure all of them are not swimming in pussy.

So you never ever met a man who was the opposite of those 3 and got no girls?

If what you are saying is true why does this site even talk about fundamentals? Why isn’t the theme of pick up just the three things you say?

What you are stating are not fundamentals, it’s genetics.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:46 am

he’s incel. they have no experience with women so they make assumptions them look for evidence to back them up and ignore any contrary information. the manosphere is full of guys like this. it’s called black pill. i read recently almost 1/3 of men are incel. these guys also hate women so much they often watch animated porn so they don’t have to masturbate to real women. probably about 20% are lookscel. basically guys with deformities that are too ugly for any girl. the majority are mentalcel. that means trauma or some kind of emotional issue makes them unable to be with women.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:17 am

He should snap out of it, if he’s gonna use this forum to get better with girls. I think he knows this, but for some reason he’s saying that all men need are a full head of hair, be white, and be over 6ft. I never heard anything like that in my life.

He’s gotta have some hope that what he’s saying is not true because why ask for advice if you don’t have those things then?

I think he said he had a mentor tell him this.

At one point he said it with such confidence I thought he knew some secret about fundamentals that I didn’t know about, then he told me those three things and I realized that it didn’t make any sense and I’m glad that I asked him what he meant about top-tier fundamentals.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:31 pm

yeah i mean all that stuff does matter. do i have advantages, sure. life isn’t fair. attaching yourself to negativity is just stupid.

anyway, here’s a excerpt from a set last night
Her: i’m sonia
Me: oh like sonia blade, you probably don’t know who that is
her: uh yeah mortal combat so are you like scorpion
me: yeah i’m the white scorpion, which i guess makes me sub zero which isn’t as cool

then i saw your name and it’s funny because you’re the black sub zero. as a joke, kinda making fun of jay z (the black brad pitt) i do sometimes refer to myself as the white denzel washington.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Lmao

Scorpion isn’t white? What is he?

I made my name sub-zero because it was a play on my cold heart for these women, even though I still love them, I need to practice what I preach though because I’m not acting as cold as I should be. I also picked the name because cold hearted, cold person, some character that’s cold...... Sub-Zero!!

So yeah I’ll try to be more like my username.

Could you give me your opinion on this?

I’ve mentioned that attracting women was never and is not a problem for me, but it’s getting them to come out on dates and having sex with them.

But when you think about it, I don’t think sex is the problem I have at all. About 90% of girls I was alone with I slept with.

So my only problem is after I get the number I just can’t get the date for some reason, and you can’t get lays if you can’t get a chick out.

I’ve tired just texting only to set up a date, I’ve tried having text conversations, and I’ve tried even talking on the phone now to show myself more as a person, but nothing seems to be working at all.

That’s the point I’ve been stuck on for many years, I just looked up some comments I made 2 years ago with this same exact problem, back then I was in a relationship, so I wasn’t as active trying to get better, but now I’m back in the game dealing with the same shit.

So that’s the point I’m not succeeding with, getting them interested in seeing me, that’s through apps and cold approach.

When I used to work this one regular job, I slept with women with ease, and they were one of the most attractive there.

So anyway, that’s my sticking point and I’d like to know your thoughts on what I could do about that.

Thanks
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:04 pm

try texting more for comfort then trying to set up the date. this doesn’t work. but it creates a funnel of comfortable girls. then stop texting them. a week later hit them all up on like a thursday at 7 pm. you’ll get bored girls fairly regularly like this. until you become more entitled this is a good way.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:41 pm

Image

look at this. it’s hard to do. i had a really good interaction with this chick last night. she said we should exchange numbers. so i didn’t text her that night. i waited until the afternoon. then she took five hours. you know what it felt like waiting? awful. i like this girl. anyway when a girl likes a guy she’ll hide interest. you should do the same. as long as neither of you telegraph how much you like the other one you’ll stay in the tension. if i messaged her how great and pretty she is is break the tension and lose. you want her to break tension. leave her wondering if you like her. i have a crush. i’ve been thinking about her all day. but i’m not gonna let that fuck up my decision making.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:08 pm

i’ll add one more thing. i don’t know if this will work yet. but i’m planning on not messaging her until tomorrow. this is a sign of disinterest. basically a push. so tomorrow i plan on qualifying her on seeming cool and suggest meeting up. it’s a very exaggerated push pull.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Sub-Zero » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:46 am

naturalmikey wrote:i’ll add one more thing. i don’t know if this will work yet. but i’m planning on not messaging her until tomorrow. this is a sign of disinterest. basically a push. so tomorrow i plan on qualifying her on seeming cool and suggest meeting up. it’s a very exaggerated push pull.



Yeah keep me updated and post the convo and let me know what happens.

How would you build comfort through text? I read Chase’s article about not being that texting guy, but these chicks lose interest fast.

I agree about not texting a lot though, because to me there’s no point. Why do I need to keep talking to you everyday over message?

Also some of these girls don’t even text back, so it’s like what’s the point of texting when you can ask them out?

Then you run into them not being comfortable.

So wtf can you fuckin do?
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:12 am

it’s dificult for a guy, unless extremely good looking or famous, to have sex with pretty girls regularly. but that’s good. if it were easy then it wouldn’t matter. i guess it is easy when you’re in true abundance. what i’m doing is trying to create abundance out of thin air after being in a relationship for a year. i’m actually worried i’m gonna fall into this trap now of being a relationship guy. which has the benefits of unprotected sex regularly with a very atttractive woman. but it just gets me so far off course. i don’t think i’m a guy who can balance life and a monogamous relationship. but there are certain girls i find special. those are the ones that it bothers me fuckin other guys. but i guess you have to choose between a flawed system of monogamy and the alternative of being a player. for some reason i still tend to want to fall into the blue pill fantasy. but looking back on my life monogamy has brought far more pain than pleasure.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:14 am

as far as the text we really did have a solid connection. there was no doubt in my mind she’d remember me. i’m just gonna be honest and tell her i thought she was rad and we should hang.
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby naturalmikey » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:27 pm

sent her this. just trying to be honest. i honestly can’t believe i fell in to an opportunity with a really beautiful cool chill girl so quickly after a breakup. if i mess it up there will just be more. i know that based on where my game was. the problem for me now is i only wanna have sex with really hot girls. a little harder to be abundant. oh well here’s the text.

hey s___! it was nice meeting you... i really enjoyed the vibe between us we should meet up soon
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Re: the reason most men will never have success with women

Postby Michal » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:51 am

Sub-Zero wrote:.

Chase just made an article about a month ago about being slim and In shape. He says if you want to do well with women you need to be in shape. He wrote that in his own article.

Could you link me to the article or the name itself, please? Thank you.

As far as the discussion goes, the title itself suggests multiple possible answers. Not approaching enough, level of fundamentals, drive, weak will..... But what the first post defines has more depth to it
I agree with underlying message you convey. People have to work on themselves. A lot of us were implicitly thought that the world owes us something. Either because we are polite or that we work hard or that we are nice to women. So there is the camp of these. And then there is the camp of self-improvement oriented people. And with the second group, based on what I have seen on others (and myself as well), very often people get to a certain level and get comfortable with the results. They get 8/10 in what they desire and slow down the tempo. Not everyone of course. But generally I have seen that the people who "keep going" have just higher standards. So they seem to keep going because when a regular person stops at 8/10, that point to these drvin people would be 5/10. So when they break through the 9/10 or 10/10 for the regular self-improver, he gets amazed and thinks this person "has it all". Driven ones might still feel like they are not there yet and possibly feel bad about their situation and possibly get overwhelmed or even give up.
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