Cacc-
Cacc said:
Chase,
Were you the first guy to really talk about seducing women in a natural way and fundamentals?
Ah... you want a history lesson?
Sebastian (Dimitri) Drake and Vin DiCarlo introduced natural game in 2004 I think it was. Sebastian was a natural cold approach day gamer who got heavily interested in PUA. He studied a lot of Mystery Method in particular (it was
kind of the only game in town at the time). Liked a bunch of it. Rejected a bunch of it. Vin was his first student. Vin codified a lot of Sebastian's methods and I think coined the term "natural game." Whenever he talked about learning from a super talented natural who pulled off ridiculous stuff with girls, he was talking about Sebastian.
They launched theApproach together, which was the first coaching company that taught natural game. All the other companies followed Mystery's lead and taught routines. (there were of course naturals in the seduction community from the very beginning; guys like Razorjack, MrSex4uNYC (eliciting values), and Nathan Szilard's friend who developed GM style, for instance)
RSD smelled the changing winds and retooled itself as a "natural game company" in I think 2007 or 2008. While it still continued to teach students routines. The Blueprint was Owen Cook's big huge "natural game" product in 2007 or 2008 that loads and loads of guys swore changed their games and lives forever... I haven't gone through it but from what I've heard from other guys it was essentially repackaged Mystery Method. (which I mean makes sense; Owen was a student of Mystery's and lived with the guy for a time)
I semi-introduced fundamentals. The term "fundamentals" is mine; Sebastian talked about these loads during the first workshop I took with him and Vin in 2006, but he rolled it all into "value" and they didn't focus on them outside the workshops. Guys would talk about being well-dressed or getting in shape or having a sexy walk on the seduction forums. Some guys would push stuff like this but for most guys it was an after thought. I think the coaches (even Vin and Sebastian) just figured this stuff was too basic and not "sexy" and that guys who wanted to buy stuff all wanted techniques, so they focused on that. When most of the routine guys talked about "value" they mostly meant value you conveyed about yourself verbally: DHVs (displays of higher value; things you said / stories you shared about yourself that made you look cool), for instance.
The basic concept of fundamentals was all there in Sebastian's version of "value" though. I just made it a more central pillar of dating success. Sebastian was the most fashion-conscious guy in operation in seduction back then. Exceptionally well-dressed. Great clothes, great hair, great facial hair. Even still, it didn't really sink in with me for a few years. They went into it, but I guess I just focused more on the tech and on taking action. Which is what most guys do. And Sebastian never really hounded me about fixing my fundamentals, which I probably would've appreciated (I remained a pretty terrible dresser and in bad shape, with an awful hairstyle, for about 2.5 years after that workshop).
I circled back around to "value" in 2008, in the form of better clothes, being in better shape, better nonverbals, and it exploded my results. And I started to realize every guy I met who was very good with women had all this stuff on point. So I considered it "fundamental" to success with women and started to call it that: these are the fundamentals, and you should work on them FIRST. Guys have all kinds of different styles they use to successfully get girls, but one thing they pretty much all have in common is they are excellent in this group of stuff, so let's call that stuff "fundamental", since it's essential/required.
Vin left theAppraoch acrimoniously in 2007. Sebastian ran it by himself for a year but closed it down in 2008 after a difficult personal stretch where he just couldn't coach anymore. So GC became its spiritual successor. I
set up a page with Sebastian to serve as a redirect/landing page for folks coming from theApproach so the folks who used to hit that site would have somewhere new to call home. And our first forum on GC was a private forum for all the old theApproach alumni, which gave me experience running a forum. It was quite active for a while, but has been dead since 2012. Guys just move on after a while. I started this forum at the end of that year as a replacement. The little spinning circle things to indicate new posts on the boards here come from the old theApproach forum (was one of the design elements I really liked of that place).
But yeah, I mean, value, attainability, compliance... that's all Sebastian tech. GC was the only place still talking about it after theApproach went down. I refined theApproach's definition of "value" into fundamentals. And originated a bunch of other stuff, like deep dives (after having too many conversations where I could not figure out what to talk about next with a girl), chase frames (from a couple naturals I knew), my process for first-date sex, date compression, pre-opening. The "game + fundamentals" dichotomy is mine. A focus on natural conversation is 100% me; nobody anywhere talked about having good natural conversation until I opened that discussion up (I always thought it was the strangest thing; what do all these other guys even do the whole time with girls?). And I think you will see the model I introduce in One Date gradually become a seduction community standard as it filters out over time, based on how well it's tested with some of the guys I've given early access to. That'll be all me. But "natural game" as a concept is 100% Vin and Sebby. And VAC is all Sebby (I mean, Mystery talked about "value" before Sebastian. But Sebastian completely retooled it from "value you demonstrate to her you have" to "value she can just see immediately"). "Move faster" is Sebastian. We owe a lot to theApproach, and Vin and Sebastian in particular. I've met a lot of top guys in seduction and Sebastian remains unquestionably in my opinion the sharpest, most brilliant, and most creative mind this space has seen.
It's a pity he didn't hang around in the field. But his contributions in the 3-4 years he taught were awesome.
Chase