Shes scared and wants time...



Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:44 pm

This is a little long...but hopefully you can guys can give me a reality check. I've been reading a lot and I know a lot of it, but I've had a hard time putting it into practice consistently.

A little background. Me 35, her 29. I met this girl about 2.5 months ago. We just hit it off great. We talked quite often and typically saw each other 2-3 days a week. No fights, no issues, just having fun. We did talk about serious things but nothing too crazy that had an impact (as far as I knoW). In this time, we both had 10 day trips to India on separate occasions. So there wasn't constant contact, but we did still talk everyday. We had both already said that we weren't dating anyone else but never really mentioned whether it was a relationship or not. Is there a difference?

My trip was the second one and when I came home we decided to define the relationship as they say. I had also mentioned in passing that my sister was asking all sorts of questions about us, whether we were "together", whether she was coming to christmas, etc. So when I mentioned the Christmas thing she freaked out and said she wasn't ready to meet the parents or anything. The next night she brought it up, and wanted to know what I thought. I said well you can come to dinner if you want. She said that she couldn't because her family from india was in town. So I said fine no big deal. She said that she would be happy to meet them another time though. Well, it turns out that in their culture, meeting the parents means you are serious enough about the person to get married. So it doesn't happen often. I didn't find this out till later, but things still progressed as they had before. Her behavior was normal. I never asked her about it again.

Fast forward 2 weeks, things were still normal...we were at my holiday company dinner and we were just talking with others there. So I told my co-workers (also friends) about how in their culture they view meeting the parents as meaning that you are getting married in comparison to the traditional american way as it not being a big deal. When I said this I laughed because I thought it was funny how we both didn't know what the other meant. Well, this seemed to kick start "thinking" mode in her. Two days later she started distancing herself. She would still contact me, but I could sense that something had changed. I did see her on sunday and she was nervous talking the whole time. We did not have time to be intimate, unfortunately. I discussed exchanging gifts for christmas and she kind of seemed shocked. I was like, well you are my gf right and I said I thought you wanted something serious. Yes, I realize now that was a big mistake. I just thought it was normal to expect that after 2 months and spending a considerable amount of time together and talking. Following that, the distancing went on for about 6 days, her contacting me more than me contacting her still.

But then Thursday she wanted to end it. She said she feels overly anxious when shes with me and when thinking about things. So I say ok and go to get up, thinking what is there to talk about? (We met for a drink) She didn't want me to leave and wanted to talk. So, she tells me that she's been so anxious she's making herself sick. Heart racing, stomach pains, etc. This was happening during the week, before our thursday meeting. I of course asked her why she was feeling this way and she said she doesn't know. She's been nervous at times with me but nothing to this extent. I tell her I really can't do anything to fix her anxiety. I don't know why she doesn't feel comfortable. She said it may have been too much too soon. She tells me I'm awesome, the sex is awesome, has a great time with me and is afraid that shes walking away from something great. She asks me if she calls me in 3 months would I still answer the phone. I of course said I don't know....that's a long time away. I asked her if she wanted me to fight for her and she perked up like YES of course. So I told her she has to follow and trust me. I repeated that quite a bit to get the point across. In the end, I asked her what she wanted to do. She said she wanted to take a week or two and when I walked her to her car we made out pretty passionately for 5 mins. So, I'm just confused by the mixed signals. In a week and a half we go from things being great and planning new years to breaking up?!?

She's had bad breakups in the past and thought she was getting married twice (yes, they had met the parents). The most recent one ended about a year ago. Could this be the cause of her fear and anxiety? The whole getting into something serious with someone and having your feelings grow into something and being scared shitless? The other big factor is all of the Indian family issues with dating, marriage, etc. especially since she had family coming to town. She also mentioned the holidays as being rough for her with all this and the family...etc.

I know the whole, if you want someone you want them, and you don't run from it philosophy...which makes sense to me. I generally feel the same way. Does anxiety change that idea or am I just looking for reasons to keep hope alive?

So, Friday morning I sent an email to her, telling her not to respond, but I just wanted to clear up some of the misunderstandings (dinner conversation, meeting the parents). I didn't beg for her to come back or anything dumb like that, but told her to break down her wall and take a risk. Since then I have not been in contact with her.

You may ask, why do I even care? Well, I think that we just get along really great, have great compatibility and think things could actually work out if she gets past this.

Other than not calling or contacting her (giving space), if and when she contacts me, what are my next moves? I'm definitely confused, but I still want her. I did fall for her, big mistake so soon, but while I'm upset, I'm not completely delusional about things or wallowing in self pity. I realize I don't know the ins and outs of her and that it was a short time in getting to know one another. Is this all a test to see if I really want her or was I too available, not enough challenge and she just thought it was too good and easy?

For my own sake I've also put my online profile back up and I am getting some things going instead of just sitting here moping about the situation. I've also tried to stay busy as well.

Thanks for any insight!
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby Novacane » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:14 am

You mentioned something about telling her how your sister asked about whether you guys are "together" and if she will be coming by for christmas etc, now what I would like to ask you is are you looking to become lovers with this woman or share more of a traditional boyfriend girlfriend relationship? If you are trying to become a lover and slowly move into a relationship letting her know about your family commenting on what you two share between each other comes across as something a potential boyfriend would do. What I mean by that is if you are introducing family already into the scenario without having actually slept with her or defined what you two share as a serious relationship it would cause her to put things on break, due to the fact that now that your family is involved she has to exhibit certain qualities to meet the expectations of your family. (I know chase has a post up on the site referring to why women would sleep with someone who there family and friends don't know as it alleviates all the social pressure to act a certain way with the person but I can't seem to find it at the moment) You say however she is comfortable with your family, and meeting them in her culture shows she is very serious about the person, if she was to suddenly to go cold after things going so well you need to distance yourself and continue living don't make her confusion impact your life, keep moving forward if she decides she was never ready oh well lesson learned. Hope I helped you even in the slightest bit ~ Novacane
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby AFCnoob » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:52 am

I think you know as well as anyone else---you tried to ramp things up too fast, and she got uncomfortable and started pulling away. Then you started chasing, and now you're chasing her---away!

You were seeing each other very often (2-3 times every single week, for over 2 months, wow). You were having a great time, passion and attraction was consistent, so...what exactly was the problem? So your sister is asking you all kinds of questions, asking you to tell her (and everyone else) exactly what you guys are and where the relationship is going. Were you perhaps bowing to social pressure by turning around and putting these questions to your girl, and if so, was that wise?

Really--as usual--you need to step back, and let this girl come back to you. Chasing her any more at this point will just chase her off. Definitely let her know that you will be happy to leave things just the way they were, and let them progress normally, if they do.

You define your relationship by your actions, not with your words. If you want this girl to invest more in you and your relationship together, don't chase, don't force her to make verbal commitments. Instead, display more value, continue being your great self, and she will move forward automatically. She's a girl, she has to.
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:22 am

Novacane, we had both gotten into this looking for something more than just lovers and were already seeing each other exclusively. We were sleeping together as well. Both of our families knew about us and she actually still lives at home. I did make a mistake by asking if she wanted to define the relationship. I should have known better...that that is her job to ask. I guess as my feelings grew and I wanted to know, as stupid as that sounds, since we were already exclusive. I think that was the turning point where the chase got flipped, and I knew it. The meeting the parents thing was stupid as well and to AFC Noobs point, maybe I did bend to social pressure somewhat because I wasn't really sure if that was the right move. When she started distancing herself I did the same, but she still called me everyday...but I knew something was wrong. She always called me and not the other way around.

AFCnoob, yes I realize that. I think the tipping point was talking about it in front of work friends and then talking about exchanging gifts a few days later and me telling her I was serious about her (stupid). I didn't ask about her meeting my parents again after the initial conversation because it seemed like she felt uncomfortable, but she brought it up the next day and then I asked her if she wanted to. She said she couldn't because her family was coming but that she would meet them another time. I didn't really think it was all that important to be honest, and I really didn't make a big deal about it, but I guess the fact that it even came up was too much. I just wanted to spend time with her on christmas if she wasn't busy. That's all.

I realize 2 months is nothing...I guess I just saw real potential in someone for the first time in a long time and got all wrapped up in that. The problem was I couldn't keep my feelings in check and wanted to know what she thought and felt. You are right though. Actions define a relationship...not verbal commitments. I'll probably never forget that quote! Her actions told me everything I needed to know! I think the bf/gf thing was ok (still not the best move), but anything else was too much. I don't think I realized I was chasing her. I had a feeling I may have come on a bit strong, so now I think I understand that they are one in the same. Sounds like between her family pressures, the holidays and me coming on a little strong she freaked out and tried to run away. So it's not just a test. It seemed like she wanted me to fight to keep her...and she tried to leave doors open so that's what confused me.

I have taken a step back to re-evaluate everything and I will not contact her. In the email I sent the day after I basically told her how I liked things the way they were and that we should just continue getting to know one another and forget about all of the parents stuff. I probably shouldn't have sent her anything, but felt it was needed to clear up any confusion.

From everything else I said, do you think there's still a chance she'll come back? She seemed like she was trying to leave a lot of doors open to come back between stuff she said and the kiss goodnight. If she does, do I let things go back to what they were? Meaning responding quickly to texts and phone calls or do I become more unavailable. Obviously I should never bring up anything serious...I think I got that now. I need to ingrain that in my brain.

Thanks for the insight fellas...I really do appreciate it and you both made some really good points. Hearing it from guys who know the ins and outs is definitely helpful.
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby AFCnoob » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:18 am

@ stealth:

Really, I would like to have one of our resident "experts" weigh in on your situation--Chase is usually pretty good about getting around to posts that require some attention.

However--You want to stop chasing, but don't be distant or cold, don't try to intentionally play it cool or nonchalant. I wouldn't say initiate contact, but stay available and warm. If you've already contacted her, leave it. Do not initiate contact again, let her. And when she does, be relaxed and good-natured about it. Rather than focusing on whatever issues you may be having (you don't have to talk about it, or dissect it), focus on the good things that were the reason you were together in the first place.
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:19 pm

I'd definitely appreciate any input from the experts on how to handle the rest of this!

I haven't contacted her and wasn't too tempted to send her a "Merry Christmas" text. She did not send me one either though. I've basically just disappeared since the email I sent on friday, the morning after our conversation. It's only been 6 days, so I'm not sure if it gets easier or tougher from here. She said she wanted a week, so I fear it may be more tempting if I don't hear from her by the weekend, but I've set it in my mind that, that would be chasing her and that I simply can't do it. Do I ever make contact again or just let it go completely if she doesn't contact me at all in the next month?

So if I do talk to her, don't bring anything up about us? Just be warm and friendly like normal? I've been thinking about everything way too much and I'm just trying to snap out of it. The holidays make it tougher to just sit alone and get over things because you are constantly doing something.

After reading many of the articles on this blog I decided to make an effort to just get back out there on match and not wallow so much in self pity. So, I got a date for friday, which is something to look forward to. I have a couple of other opportunities as well...so all is not lost. I just got stuck on that "one girl", like everyone says not too!! Preparing for the worst, but still hoping (a little) for the best.

Thanks for your input AFCnoob.
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby Chase » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:56 am

Howdy Stealth,

Especially with free-spirited women and women who are fine having things casual (i.e., NOT the women who are freaking out about marriage the instant you take them to bed), you need to always remain at least one step less interested in the relationship than she is. Men chase sex, women chase commitment, that's generally the way it goes. A man chasing commitment is a big red flag to women.

You can sometimes do an about-face and tell her you've changed your mind and you don't want commitment now. You've got to mean that though, and be prepared to leave it on the table. This often makes girls who were "umm"ing and "ahhh"ing before suddenly revert back into chase mode, pursuing the thing they thought they had in the bag that they've now lost.

"Let's take a break and I'll let you know later" is girl speak for "I've got these other guys I want to try out, would you mind waiting while I do that and I'll let you know later if we should start up again?" Women never go sit in a room for the "break" period and weigh their options - instead, they go out to get more data points (men).

I had a buddy go through this recently. His girl took a "break," and dated a few other guys. Some fat guy broke her heart when they'd been dating and may or may not have been sleeping together, and she caught him making out with another girl. She went rushing back to my friend - but poised, skeptical, making him work to win her back. Had she met a "better" man than him, she never would've given him the chance though.

stealth518 wrote:So when I mentioned the Christmas thing she freaked out and said she wasn't ready to meet the parents or anything. The next night she brought it up, and wanted to know what I thought. I said well you can come to dinner if you want. She said that she couldn't because her family from india was in town. So I said fine no big deal. She said that she would be happy to meet them another time though. Well, it turns out that in their culture, meeting the parents means you are serious enough about the person to get married. So it doesn't happen often. I didn't find this out till later, but things still progressed as they had before. Her behavior was normal. I never asked her about it again.


This isn't necessarily bad. If you explain to her it's a cultural difference and that in America meeting parents is no big deal, she'll either understand or she won't, but if you're not worrying about it she'll pick up on that and relax.

stealth518 wrote:Fast forward 2 weeks, things were still normal...we were at my holiday company dinner and we were just talking with others there. So I told my co-workers (also friends) about how in their culture they view meeting the parents as meaning that you are getting married in comparison to the traditional american way as it not being a big deal. When I said this I laughed because I thought it was funny how we both didn't know what the other meant. Well, this seemed to kick start "thinking" mode in her.


What happened here was you betrayed yourself by talking about it... essentially communicating to her that, yes, this is a big deal.

If you want to play something down in the future, pretend it never happened and don't ever talk about it unless pressed. When you start bringing it up socially, it means it's something you've been thinking about and is stalking your mind.

To her, that means, "Ha, he lied to me! He DOES want to get married! Oh no!"

stealth518 wrote:Two days later she started distancing herself. She would still contact me, but I could sense that something had changed. I did see her on sunday and she was nervous talking the whole time. We did not have time to be intimate, unfortunately. I discussed exchanging gifts for christmas and she kind of seemed shocked.


It sounds to me as though the two of you have very different expectations for the relationship.

You seem to think it's something on the road to being serious, and you seem to think she does too. Meanwhile, she seems to think it's just a no-strings, no-commitments good time getting some good sex and having some good conversation and that's it. Or it may be that she sort of wanted something more, but was expecting that you did not. She's been through a couple of failed engagements already, which means she keeps falling for the wrong kind of guy. She may have been setting you up in her head to be one of these types that she goes for - the elusive, untamable bad boy - only to find out that you were far more domestic than she thought (or prefers). Hard to say which from what we've got here, but it's likely one of the two.

Once she started realizing you were getting attached, it freaked her out... she wasn't at that point yet, or ready for you to be.

stealth518 wrote:I was like, well you are my gf right and I said I thought you wanted something serious. Yes, I realize now that was a big mistake. I just thought it was normal to expect that after 2 months and spending a considerable amount of time together and talking. Following that, the distancing went on for about 6 days, her contacting me more than me contacting her still.


That's the problem with expectations. No two people's are ever exactly alike... but everyone always assumes the other person shares his until it's too late, and you both end up startled and panicky.

stealth518 wrote:But then Thursday she wanted to end it. She said she feels overly anxious when shes with me and when thinking about things. So I say ok and go to get up, thinking what is there to talk about? (We met for a drink) She didn't want me to leave and wanted to talk. So, she tells me that she's been so anxious she's making herself sick. Heart racing, stomach pains, etc. This was happening during the week, before our thursday meeting. I of course asked her why she was feeling this way and she said she doesn't know. She's been nervous at times with me but nothing to this extent. I tell her I really can't do anything to fix her anxiety. I don't know why she doesn't feel comfortable. She said it may have been too much too soon. She tells me I'm awesome, the sex is awesome, has a great time with me and is afraid that shes walking away from something great.


She's nervous because she's breaking up with you. She's been trying to figure out the right way to do it.

She's considerate and looking to take care of your emotions at the end, which means she sees there being a value differential between the two of you (her: higher in status, more powerful, more desired, more pursued; you less so, and the pursuer).

stealth518 wrote:She asks me if she calls me in 3 months would I still answer the phone. I of course said I don't know....that's a long time away.


The answer here is to laugh and tell her, "I'm not even going to be in the COUNTRY in 3 months, let alone available." Or, if you can't / don't want to leave, you can simply say, "I don't date my exes. So we can say goodbye, and that's fine, but once that's it, that's it. Would you like to end things?"

Again, you've got to mean it. I have a personal hard "closed door" philosophy on ex-girlfriends these days because I have too many things I'm trying to do to spend a lot of time mulling over what I want to do with a woman. I'd rather have a clean decision: YES, we stay together, or NO, we break up, and the decision is final. If you spend a lot of time revisiting decisions you've already made again and again, you'll never get anywhere in life.

I've gone through this with a number of girlfriends, sometimes with them freaking out / anxious / in full-on breakup mode like your girl was here, and they almost invariably change their minds or become a lot less certain than they were before. Their attraction to and respect for you also tends to shoot way up, because suddenly you're totally comfortable walking away from them, but they aren't totally comfortable walking away from you. The power dynamic shifts dramatically, and it only takes an instant.

Again, you've got to be totally fine with ending things permanently though. If you can't make that call, you're stuck in limbo waiting for a woman to make up her mind (a rather unenviable place to be, seeing as women never fully make up their minds... but then, I suppose most men don't, either).

stealth518 wrote:I asked her if she wanted me to fight for her and she perked up like YES of course.


This is a good question to ask, but your next line was wrong. When you ask a girlfriend if she's trying to get you to fight for her and she says yes, your next line needs to be:

"Well, I know that's what you want, and I know that's what most other guys are going to do, but I don't do that. I don't have time for that. I have too many things I'm trying to do with my life and I'm not going to spend my time and energy chasing after you when I'm right here and you can be with me if you want. So you have to make up your mind - do you want me or not? You can stay, or you can go. I'm fine with either. Which is it?"

The biggest, overarching problem here is that she came to you as the aggressor, and you let her stay in that role and buffet you around like a buoy in a tsunami. When someone comes at you as the aggressor, if you don't TAKE the role of aggressor from them, you're dead. You get steamrolled. She's coming to you saying, "I need time to decide. Can you give me time?"

You need to come back and say, "You need to decide right now because my time is precious and I'm not going to sit around waiting for you to date this guy and that guy and figure out if, well, do I REALLY want to be with Stealth or do I like Jim better? And Peter.... Peter is an EXCELLENT cook, but he's not quite as good in bed as Stealth is. Oh! Such a difficult choice. Sorry honey, there're a billion men out there who'll sit around and twiddle their thumbs and wait for you to make up your mind on them while you fuck your way through the country, but I ain't one of 'em. So choose now - them or me. Either one's fine, but I want a decision, and I don't want you hanging over my head wrecking my life. Choose."

Your biggest concern here needs to be your own mental well-being. Fact is, if the two of you break up, you'll be fine in a few weeks. You'll go out, date some new girls, and everything will be right as rain. You'll find someone better than her. You'll hardly think about her again. And if you two get back together, then it's all water under the bridge.

But if she's out there playing round robin with every Tom, Dick, and Harry who asks her out or takes her home while you sit around moping and waiting for her to make up her mind, it's just going to drag on and on and on and you'll never be free of it.

Force her to choose, and be free either way.

stealth518 wrote:I know the whole, if you want someone you want them, and you don't run from it philosophy...which makes sense to me. I generally feel the same way. Does anxiety change that idea or am I just looking for reasons to keep hope alive?


She was anxious because she was breaking up with you... she may also have been fearful or uncertain of how you'd react.

Especially when someone is attached to you, breaking up with them unilaterally can lead to some pretty nasty situations. I'd be nervous suddenly and inelegantly breaking up with a girl who told me she wanted to get married too.

stealth518 wrote:So, Friday morning I sent an email to her, telling her not to respond, but I just wanted to clear up some of the misunderstandings (dinner conversation, meeting the parents). I didn't beg for her to come back or anything dumb like that, but told her to break down her wall and take a risk. Since then I have not been in contact with her.


To her, this reads as just another assurance that you'll wait patiently by while she tries some new men on for size.

stealth518 wrote:Other than not calling or contacting her (giving space), if and when she contacts me, what are my next moves? I'm definitely confused, but I still want her. I did fall for her, big mistake so soon, but while I'm upset, I'm not completely delusional about things or wallowing in self pity. I realize I don't know the ins and outs of her and that it was a short time in getting to know one another. Is this all a test to see if I really want her or was I too available, not enough challenge and she just thought it was too good and easy.

For my own sake I've also put my online profile back up and I am getting some things going instead of just sitting here moping about the situation. I've also tried to stay busy as well.

Thanks for any insight!


It's good to hear you're working on continuing to date. However, she's going to hang over your head like a storm cloud until either a great deal of time passes and you accept that she isn't coming back, or you get some sort of resolution.

It's far, far better to force resolution when the problem arises, but that point is past so you've got to make do with what you've got now.

Effectively, you are broken up, and she's out dating, but still keeping you on the back burner as a backup plan in case these new beaus do not work out. So, you could just wait for her, or, for your own sake, you could send her something like this:

    Hey India,

    I just realized we had totally different expectations going in. I think I misread you and you misread me.

    I did some thinking, and I realized you put me in a pretty unfair position, asking me to "wait for you" while you "see what else is out there." I suppose I can't blame you for asking, but I was silly not to shoot the idea down right then and there. I guess I was a little surprised at how things unfolded.

    Anyway, I wanted to reach out and make things official - I don't do breaks. So, I will consider your "break" to mean you are "breaking up" with me, and let's call it a permanent split.

    I'm sorry things ended this way, but I do respect your decision. I don't date exes... please don't write me a note in 3 months saying you've "changed your mind" because I won't be waiting.

    I do hope, however, that you find what you're looking for out there. You're a wonderful person, and I'm glad to have shared the short time with you that we shared.

    Best of luck to you, India.

    Stealth

Farewell notes like these typically prompt a reaction, because you're putting words in her mouth (she'll think "I didn't say break UP, I said BREAK! What do you MEAN you won't wait for me while I date other men? How can you be so UNREASONABLE???") and provoking an emotional response.

If you stick to your guns ("My way or the highway") you stand a good chance of winning. If you back down or change course or let her call the shots and tell you how things are going to be, you'll get pummeled.

Be warned, most guys I've coached to try this cracked, and the girl had her way with them. She went out, took a few new lovers, and came back later or didn't, always with permanently lowered amounts of respect for the man (what man lets his woman get shagged silly by other men and then come back and bark orders at him?).

Personally, I generally advise you take this kind of behavior as "crossing a line that cannot be uncrossed," and you simply tell the girl you're cutting her off and then DO, no matter how much crying or complaining or pleading she does after that. But if you can't do that, at least make her move heaven and earth to get you back.

stealth518 wrote:So if I do talk to her, don't bring anything up about us? Just be warm and friendly like normal?


Warm and friendly benefits her. She's the one in the power position here, and warm and friendly simply maintains the status quo. You need to be cold/distant and/or confrontational if you talk to her again, and you've got to bring things to a head - and then resolve them, one way or another.

stealth518 wrote:I've been thinking about everything way too much and I'm just trying to snap out of it. The holidays make it tougher to just sit alone and get over things because you are constantly doing something.

After reading many of the articles on this blog I decided to make an effort to just get back out there on match and not wallow so much in self pity. So, I got a date for friday, which is something to look forward to. I have a couple of other opportunities as well...so all is not lost. I just got stuck on that "one girl", like everyone says not too!! Preparing for the worst, but still hoping (a little) for the best.


Great to hear about the date, Stealth. This is an ugly situation - I went through something similar some time back during a major breakup, and while it's an emotionally messy situation, if you handle things right at the end you'll take a tremendous amount of learning and lessons out of it.

My advice? Don't take this girl back, no matter what she says or does. She's never going to respect you as much or have much attraction again now that you've let her go on "break" from you (and probably date / sleep with other men) if you ever manage to get her back.

Instead, look to sever ties with her, permanently and cleanly. You'll feel a lot better once it's decided for sure.

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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:59 am

First off, thanks so much for the great insight into things, Chase! This is a bit of a rushed response without everything quoted appropriately because it's my phone...but was hoping you'd respond quickly. Thanks again for taking the time to really dissect my situation!

She is definitely a little free spirited, but everything she told me that she wanted was leading to something more serious. This also applies to all her friends getting married or engaged and her talking about these things a lot. So I assumed things were going down that path...My mistake was saying anything about it without her initiating it first. We were in a relationship so there were strings and attachments and that's what I got comfortable, which was a big mistake.

This is what I feared. She get's hit on a lot but I normally just brush her comments off. I think me telling her that these guys are hitting on her probably didn't help myself...she seems a little naive on whether or not someone is hitting on her.

"What happened here was you betrayed yourself by talking about it... essentially communicating to her that, yes, this is a big deal."

It's funny, because I never considered it a big deal, yet it was the launching point for all of this...something that I simply thought was funny ends up the catalyst for all of this.

"You seem to think it's something on the road to being serious, and you seem to think she does too. Meanwhile, she seems to think it's just a no-strings, no-commitments good time getting some good sex and having some good conversation and that's it. Or it may be that she sort of wanted something more, but was expecting that you did not. She's been through a couple of failed engagements already, which means she keeps falling for the wrong kind of guy. She may have been setting you up in her head to be one of these types that she goes for - the elusive, untamable bad boy - only to find out that you were far more domestic than she thought (or prefers). Hard to say which from what we've got here, but it's likely one of the two."

I definitely had expectations and was looking way out into the future. I knew in my head that I should have kept my cool, but instead started playing little romantic things to do etc.

"The answer here is to laugh and tell her, "I'm not even going to be in the COUNTRY in 3 months, let alone available." Or, if you can't / don't want to leave, you can simply say, "I don't date my exes. So we can say goodbye, and that's fine, but once that's it, that's it. Would you like to end things?""

My first move was to walk out when she told me she wanted to break up. I said ok, what is there to talk about. She wanted to talk so I sat back down. I told her I only give girls one chance and that I have no idea where I'll be in 3 months. Her 3 months turned into a week. It was interesting how quickly she changed and didn't want to walk away at that point So she's basically leaving doors open to date other men or give someone else a chance instead of taking time to think things over? I know this week her family was in town from India so she didn't have much time to herself to really go out, but who the hell knows what a person is doing.

At this point, it goes one way or the other. I have no choice but to be fine walking away from her. It's better than sitting and wondering what will happen, will she call, will she not call, will it work out, who is she dating or banging, etc. I made my mistakes here in getting comfortable and thinking this time it's different...so now I have to take the punishment if that's what's going to happen.

"Well, I know that's what you want, and I know that's what most other guys are going to do, but I don't do that. I don't have time for that. I have too many things I'm trying to do with my life and I'm not going to spend my time and energy chasing after you when I'm right here and you can be with me if you want. So you have to make up your mind - do you want me or not? You can stay, or you can go. I'm fine with either. Which is it?"

I think I'm actually going to use part of that in the e-mail I send to her!

You are right...this has been rough constantly analyzing the past, present and future of us for the past 2 weeks. As soon as the distancing started the analyzing and anxiety began.

Should I write this e-mail today or wait until tomorrow after her week is up? Should I bring up going on a date with someone else to provoke some jealousy and value or leave that out? Do I tell her that if she wants to talk to give me a call or just say it's over?

"But if she's out there playing round robin with every Tom, Dick, and Harry who asks her out or takes her home while you sit around moping and waiting for her to make up her mind, it's just going to drag on and on and on and you'll never be free of it."

That's exactly what I don't want or didn't want to happen and that's why I didn't want to let this nonsense go on too long. If you want to be free, go be free...but I won't be here waiting.

I honestly still do want her. How do I make her move heaven and earth to get me back? If I put the question to her and she wants me back, do I just say yes or do I say give me a day or two to think about this after the way you've acted? How do you really play the game of it's not going to be that easy to get me back?

Not taking your advice here may come back to haunt me, because I know you have much more experience with this...I just can't help wondering 'what if' though.

Thanks again Chase! This is by far the most valuable advice I've gotten about this and it actually makes sense!

I know your are busy but I look forward to your response!
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby Chase » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:38 am

Stealth-

stealth518 wrote:So she's basically leaving doors open to date other men or give someone else a chance instead of taking time to think things over? I know this week her family was in town from India so she didn't have much time to herself to really go out, but who the hell knows what a person is doing.


That's what "I need a break" means. I've never seen a girl say she wanted a break and then not immediately start dating. Women don't normally say this until they've already got replacement options lined up and knocking down their doors. A week is a pretty compressed period of time to start dating in, but when you have guys already lined up (or that you've already started seeing), it isn't out of the question. I've also seen situations where the girl talks honestly to her family and says, "We're on break right now, so I'm going to go on a date with Jim," and the folks give her their blessings.

You're never going to know what she's doing for sure, so the best bet is usually going with your gut. Your subconscious is very attuned to things that are wrong or different, and it will inform you if it picks up on discrepancies.

stealth518 wrote:Should I write this e-mail today or wait until tomorrow after her week is up?


Before. If you wait until after it looks like you were sitting and waiting and got upset when she didn't get back to you immediately after the week was over. Too accommodating.

Doing it before provokes the fight and catches her off guard - she's expecting you to be a good boy and let her have her week of freedom without interruption.

stealth518 wrote:Should I bring up going on a date with someone else to provoke some jealousy and value or leave that out?


That's playing with dynamite. If she's emotionally insecure, it may send her chasing after you, but if she has a big ego, it may just aggravate her and get her to go do something she can then wave back in your face as revenge. She may not even tell you about it - she'll just content herself quietly with having achieved vengeance. If she's smart, you'll never know about it, because she knows telling you nukes her chances with you and makes her position less secure.

I'd leave the jealousy plotlines alone here. This one's about you and her, not other people.

stealth518 wrote:Do I tell her that if she wants to talk to give me a call or just say it's over?


You can't do this half-assed. Any iota in there of, "Well, if you want to compromise, I'm happy to discuss," is you telling her, "Hey, I'm just doing this to get your attention but whenever you're ready to get back together you just give me a ring!"

She'll lose more attraction and respect for you, and tuck you deeper into that back pocket of hers.

stealth518 wrote:I honestly still do want her. How do I make her move heaven and earth to get me back?


The long and short of it is... you probably can't. Your emotions will betray you... at some point, she's going to say, "Wait, no, I want to get back together with you!" and instead of you acting like a guy who's pissed off at her and ready to say goodbye, you'll say, "Great! Let's do it!" and she'll know it was all a ruse.

If you're honestly not ready to let her go and be happy about it (e.g., excited about all the new women to come), you can't really do this.

stealth518 wrote:If I put the question to her and she wants me back, do I just say yes


If you do that, she'll know you aren't changed and she's calling the shots and you're in pursuit. Be prepared for her to "have second thoughts again" the next day and call for another "break."

stealth518 wrote:or do I say give me a day or two to think about this after the way you've acted? How do you really play the game of it's not going to be that easy to get me back?


A day or two to think when she's asked for 3 months is nothing. You've got to be telling her, "Sorry, it's too late. Sorry, we're done. Sorry... look, I really like you, but you crossed a line and that line can't be uncrossed. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry." She chases, you push her back... kindly, gently, apologetically, but firmly. She chases, you push her back. She chases, you push her back.

I had a conversation with a female friend dating the male equivalent of your girl here a while back. I explained to her that the "commitment phobe" personality type is a personality that must ALWAYS be in pursuit. The moment he or she knows that you're snagged, the attraction vanishes, and the relationship's over. If you want this person, you must keep him/her chasing, more or less for the rest of your life (or at least until age slows down the passions enough for this person to stay put).

If you want this girl, you need to become what she wants. And what she wants ISN'T a man who wants to commit to her.

She probably wants a man she has to pursue for commitment, virtually forever.

I saw an Indian girl casually once some years back. She was back and forth between Washington, D.C. and San Diego and India. She eloped with her boyfriend in Las Vegas one drunken night after he bought her a luxury car as a wedding gift. And she'd still go out to nightclubs and pick up; she was sprawled out on my bed less than a week after she got hitched.

This girl explained to me how she'd always dated bad boys in the past, and she absolutely LOVED them... until they fell for her and started chasing her for marriage. And they ALWAYS did. And at that point, she couldn't help it - she simply lost interest.

I may be projecting my own experiences onto this girl and she's nothing like this. It may be I'm drawing too many conclusions based on the limited amount of information available on an Internet forum.

But, from what you're saying here, she sounds similar to the commitment-phobe archetype, and I daresay if you want her back, it isn't going to be by being anything short of that one shiny thing she just can't have.

Cheers - and good luck, Stealth. Don't let this one mess with your head that much - if she's the kind of girl I think she is, this is the general pattern she follows with every man - it's no judgment of you.

Best,
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:21 pm

Chase: “That's what "I need a break" means. I've never seen a girl say she wanted a break and then not immediately start dating. Women don't normally say this until they've already got replacement options lined up and knocking down their doors. A week is a pretty compressed period of time to start dating in, but when you have guys already lined up (or that you've already started seeing), it isn't out of the question. I've also seen situations where the girl talks honestly to her family and says, "We're on break right now, so I'm going to go on a date with Jim," and the folks give her their blessings.

You're never going to know what she's doing for sure, so the best bet is usually going with your gut. Your subconscious is very attuned to things that are wrong or different, and it will inform you if it picks up on discrepancies.”

I think many of us men are always in denial about this. She’d never dump me for someone else or she just needs time to sort out her emotions. It’s really all a bunch of crap and about what she’s feeling or secretly planning. I need too really remember this.

Chase: “Before. If you wait until after it looks like you were sitting and waiting and got upset when she didn't get back to you immediately after the week was over. Too accommodating.

Doing it before provokes the fight and catches her off guard - she's expecting you to be a good boy and let her have her week of freedom without interruption.”

I’ll do it before I leave work today. I think I’ve been too accommodating the whole time. I was working from home when we met, and that made it seem like I was always available. Even though I was available almost whenever she called she still was chasing me throughout the whole time. I should have definitely played a little more with not answering phone calls and being busy. Is it interesting that she still called me everyday for 2 months straight though or really meaningless in the end?

Chase: “You can't do this half-assed. Any iota in there of, "Well, if you want to compromise, I'm happy to discuss," is you telling her, "Hey, I'm just doing this to get your attention but whenever you're ready to get back together you just give me a ring!"

She'll lose more attraction and respect for you, and tuck you deeper into that back pocket of hers.

The long and short of it is... you probably can't. Your emotions will betray you... at some point, she's going to say, "Wait, no, I want to get back together with you!" and instead of you acting like a guy who's pissed off at her and ready to say goodbye, you'll say, "Great! Let's do it!" and she'll know it was all a ruse.

If you're honestly not ready to let her go and be happy about it (e.g., excited about all the new women to come), you can't really do this.”

I’m honestly ready to let her go. I need to let her go or try to rope her back in…I just can’t sit back in limbo analyzing shit anymore. If she’s chasing me though, how long do I continue this?


Chase: “If you do that, she'll know you aren't changed and she's calling the shots and you're in pursuit. Be prepared for her to "have second thoughts again" the next day and call for another "break."

A day or two to think when she's asked for 3 months is nothing. You've got to be telling her, "Sorry, it's too late. Sorry, we're done. Sorry... look, I really like you, but you crossed a line and that line can't be uncrossed. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry." She chases, you push her back... kindly, gently, apologetically, but firmly. She chases, you push her back. She chases, you push her back.”

So when do you ever give in and say, ok let’s give this a try? Is there a time? I guess that’s the tough part. A few weeks, a month, never? Haha. I think I could do this for a while 2-4 weeks…I’m just not sure how long I’d last. I think that is my last big question here. How do you keep her “chasing” when you are together as well so that it never dies?

Chase: “I had a conversation with a female friend dating the male equivalent of your girl here a while back. I explained to her that the "commitment phobe" personality type is a personality that must ALWAYS be in pursuit. The moment he or she knows that you're snagged, the attraction vanishes, and the relationship's over. If you want this person, you must keep him/her chasing, more or less for the rest of your life (or at least until age slows down the passions enough for this person to stay put).

If you want this girl, you need to become what she wants. And what she wants ISN'T a man who wants to commit to her.”

Could be…she definitely didn’t seem that way all along until these issues came up. The whole time she’s talking about going places to eat, taking trips together, even instances in being married! Maybe that is part of her trapping process…I don’t know. To see if I push back and tell her that’s all a dream right now.

Chase: “She probably wants a man she has to pursue for commitment, virtually forever.

I saw an Indian girl casually once some years back. She was back and forth between Washington, D.C. and San Diego and India. She eloped with her boyfriend in Las Vegas one drunken night after he bought her a luxury car as a wedding gift. And she'd still go out to nightclubs and pick up; she was sprawled out on my bed less than a week after she got hitched.

This girl explained to me how she'd always dated bad boys in the past, and she absolutely LOVED them... until they fell for her and started chasing her for marriage. And they ALWAYS did. And at that point, she couldn't help it - she simply lost interest.

I may be projecting my own experiences onto this girl and she's nothing like this. It may be I'm drawing too many conclusions based on the limited amount of information available on an Internet forum.

But, from what you're saying here, she sounds similar to the commitment-phobe archetype, and I daresay if you want her back, it isn't going to be by being anything short of that one shiny thing she just can't have.”

I think she does like the chase and wants what she can’t have to some extent, but I don’t think she is to the point that your Indian friend was at! I definitely made it too easy for her though and should have kept my emotions in check and mouth shut.

Thanks again for the great advice Chase! It’s really amazing how fast you cut through the BS and just tell it how it is. I really enjoy the articles on the blog and will keep reading so that I never forget these principals! Time to get my shit together one way or another and send out my e-mail.



-Stealth
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:53 pm

So I sent my email...this was her response...
me:

I just realized, we had totally different expectations going into this. I think I misread you and you misread me.

I did some thinking, and I realized you put me in a pretty unfair position, asking me to "wait for you" while you put me on the back burner to "see what else is out there." I suppose I can't blame you for asking, but I was silly not to shoot the idea down right then and there. I guess I was a little surprised at how things unfolded.

Anyway, I wanted to reach out and make things official - I don't do breaks. So, I will consider your "break" to mean you are "breaking up" with me, and let's call it a permanent split.

I know you wanted me to fight for you, and that's what most other guys are going to do, but I don't do that. I don't have time for that. I have too many things I'm trying to do with my life and I'm not going to spend my time and energy chasing after you when 2 weeks ago you next to me and things were going well.

I'm sorry things ended this way, but I do respect your decision. Like I said, I don't date exes... please don't write me a note in a month or 3 months saying you've "changed your mind" or "you made a mistake" because I won't be waiting.

I do hope, however, that you find what you're looking for out there. You're a wonderful person, and I'm glad to have shared this short time together with you.

her:
You sound mad in your email and I'm not sure what I did to anger you between now and the last night we saw each other. I am not looking to see what else is out there at all as I told you before so I'm not sure why you're thinking that I am. I was going to call you this weekend but I guess that's not happening.

Wish you all the best. Happy New Year.


Do I do anything from here or just let it go? Her response was very non-chalant and cold and she made no attempt to really address anything I said or to fight for me. It seems like she still is trying to get me to chase her with the I was going to call you this weekend, but I guess that isn't happening line. I do want to respond...but then I'm thinking to myself, why? She said nothing and tried to flip it back on me. Now I'm doubting my decision to say anything and if I should have just not talked to her and waited to see if she called....argh.

Is this my answer that she's just over it?
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby ZacAdam » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:42 pm

Hi Stealth518,

stealth518 wrote:her:
You sound mad in your email and I'm not sure what I did to anger you between now and the last night we saw each other. I am not looking to see what else is out there at all as I told you before so I'm not sure why you're thinking that I am. I was going to call you this weekend but I guess that's not happening.

Wish you all the best. Happy New Year.


Do I do anything from here or just let it go? Her response was very non-chalant and cold and she made no attempt to really address anything I said or to fight for me. It seems like she still is trying to get me to chase her with the I was going to call you this weekend, but I guess that isn't happening line. I do want to respond...but then I'm thinking to myself, why? She said nothing and tried to flip it back on me. Now I'm doubting my decision to say anything and if I should have just not talked to her and waited to see if she called....argh.

Is this my answer that she's just over it?


I actually read about much of your whole story here. I had something like this happen to me two years ago. She did flip it back on you, and i think what Chase written is something you want to take note of when you meet future girls, with this kind of pattern.

Just let this one go. I know that it is hard, and it is, but you will pat yourself on your back saying that you did leave this relationship. Don't let this one mess up your head.

Zac
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby Chase » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:42 pm

Stealth-

stealth518 wrote:her:
You sound mad in your email and I'm not sure what I did to anger you between now and the last night we saw each other. I am not looking to see what else is out there at all as I told you before so I'm not sure why you're thinking that I am. I was going to call you this weekend but I guess that's not happening.

Wish you all the best. Happy New Year.


Do I do anything from here or just let it go? Her response was very non-chalant and cold and she made no attempt to really address anything I said or to fight for me. It seems like she still is trying to get me to chase her with the I was going to call you this weekend, but I guess that isn't happening line. I do want to respond...but then I'm thinking to myself, why? She said nothing and tried to flip it back on me. Now I'm doubting my decision to say anything and if I should have just not talked to her and waited to see if she called....argh.

Is this my answer that she's just over it?


Looks like a problem of too little, too late. You really needed to fight this one out and squash it when it came up. She feels too in control at this point to be swayed by an email, seems.

If you read her response there is:

a) no fear of losing you
b) no concern for your emotions
c) only annoyance that you do not fit the role in her life she wants you in

She's not saying, "But wait, I changed my mind and want to be with you!" She's not saying, "I didn't mean what I said earlier!" All she's saying is, "Hey, your choice. I WAS going to call you (to tell you it's not going to work, sorry), but I guess I won't do that now."

It's an incredibly cold/dismissive email. There's a last play at the end there to get you to chase her / to try to make you "regret" having acted up / taken initiative / not doing what she told you to do (sit quietly by and wait for her by the phone). I used to run plays like this in my younger, more manipulative days ("Well, I WAS going to do THIS, but I guess not now..."). I stopped doing it when I realized it was morally irresponsible and it was causing emotions like panic and fear and disorientation in the women I was using it with, and having greater life consequences than just a lovers' quarrel, and it was more "dark side" than I wanted to be using.

This is normally the point where I tell the guy, "Get as far away from this girl as you possibly can, unless you want your soul eaten for brunch," and the point where he usually disregards my advice, chases after her, gets her, and then a few years later calls or writes to me in agony about how she tore his heart out and he can't believe this happened and never saw it coming.

I would not respond to this email. It's going to drive her nuts that you didn't respond... she wants to feel in control, and right now she doesn't. She wants some sign of your armor cracking, and you breaking and submitting. Anything you write back is a sign of that.

She may contact you again later, or she may not. The only way you can DEFINITELY have her in your life is by submitting; of course, there's a good chance you get the provider role that way, and someone else receives the lover role. In any event, this girl does not want what you want... and I strongly advise you to find a woman whose life objectives are more inline with your own (and who actually respects you as a man), unless you want to be neurotic and crazy for the rest of your life.

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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby stealth518 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:53 am

Well, I can happily say...it's over. I got what I needed tonight.

I had already responded to the e-mail and even called her to just get this shit over with. This happened before I saw your responses below of course. She actually replied to the email tonight and was taken aback by everything I said, even though she didn't show it in the first response. The second e-mail was very different. I talked to her on the phone after that. The anxiety part is true, for what its worth, and it's partially me, her feelings and all sorts of other BS she's having anxiety about. Probably more headache than it's worth. With that said, I did make mistakes and killed attraction, she basically told me in not so many words it wasn't the same. She still liked me and was attracted to me, but it wasn't as intense. She seemed to talk in circles like she still really liked me, but was unsure of where things were going and that her anxiety and everything else is so day to day and would effect everything involving us that it just wouldn't be right. I know you guys would say she's letting me down easy, but I do believe this. She's definitely got some issues. I think killing some of the attraction from my end really brought all this shit to light though. Mistakes I'll never make again. I need to stop being the nice guy.

In the end, she didn't want it anymore. No matter the reason(s) she told me, and that was all I needed to know. I still made a last ditch effort like a dope, but it was pointless. I think I knew it was better ending then continuing on. I guess, I just wanted to really make sure. In the end, it was over 2 weeks ago. I'd have been happier if she just laid everything down then instead of now, but whatever.

It's really unbelievable how things can change so quickly. I really have to remember and study all of the psychology and rules here.

Your right, she doesn't want what I want. She's a mess and she even said she was. She should have just cut ties with me last week and been done. Surprisingly, she was trying to be sensitive to my feelings (that's what she says), but just went about it the wrong way. I don't expect to hear from her again anytime soon though if she really has empathy for me.

The e-mail definitely helped bring closure to this whole mess and shut the door on the whole situation for me. The initial email I sent was the complete opposite and she was pretty upset after reading the second one. I didn't hold strong though and emailed her and called her. I told her what was on my mind though when I talked to her. I'm glad I did though.

Even though I really liked this girl and saw a future, I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I'm glad this nonsense all came out now rather than 6 months or a year down the road when it would have really hurt me bad.

I think at 35 I've finally realized that I have to take control of this aspect of my life...especially if I am looking to get married before I'm 40. Haha. That really is all I want...to find that girl to settle down with. I have all the typical "provider" qualities, but I need to work on the rest. Instead of just looking for that one, I'm going to have to have fun and do all the things I was resistant to doing before. Just date, have fun, and whatever happens, happens. My formula has been a miserable failure so...time to really follow through and try yours.

The one thing that is a little strange though...is the last 2 girls I was with were nervous around me for some reason and were even afraid to say what was on their mind at times. I'm a pretty friendly talkative guy, but I guess I can be somewhat serious. What kind of vibes am I giving off that they are so afraid of what my reaction may be? The one I just talked to said that about multiple things. She was real comfortable at first but then started closing up. This is way before anything serious came up as well when attraction was high. She said she was still nervous. It's funny because I was always pretty even tempered and rarely angry at anything. Any ideas?

Chase...thanks a lot man for taking the time to reply in detail to my whole situation, over and over again. It really means a lot and it helped me resolve everything that was driving me nuts. If you didn't tell me that I should send that email, I'd have been waiting anxiously by the phone till Saturday for her to call and then she'd have tried to get together with me to talk about all this BS in person, ending in the same results. Pointless. Anyway, I'll be spending a lot of time reading your site...Thanks again!
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby Chase » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:49 am

Hey Stealth-

stealth518 wrote:Well, I can happily say...it's over. I got what I needed tonight.


Kudos on getting things settled and over with. You're now free to continue with your life unimpeded...

stealth518 wrote:In the end, she didn't want it anymore. No matter the reason(s) she told me, and that was all I needed to know. I still made a last ditch effort like a dope, but it was pointless. I think I knew it was better ending then continuing on. I guess, I just wanted to really make sure. In the end, it was over 2 weeks ago. I'd have been happier if she just laid everything down then instead of now, but whatever.

It's really unbelievable how things can change so quickly. I really have to remember and study all of the psychology and rules here.

Your right, she doesn't want what I want. She's a mess and she even said she was. She should have just cut ties with me last week and been done. Surprisingly, she was trying to be sensitive to my feelings (that's what she says), but just went about it the wrong way. I don't expect to hear from her again anytime soon though if she really has empathy for me.


Yes. In the future, whenever you have these situations come up, fight to get resolution then and there. Dragging things out only creates problems for you and her both, slows the process down, and demoralizes everyone involved (including any friends you vent to, or friends she does!).

stealth518 wrote:Even though I really liked this girl and saw a future, I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I'm glad this nonsense all came out now rather than 6 months or a year down the road when it would have really hurt me bad.


Indeed.

stealth518 wrote:I think at 35 I've finally realized that I have to take control of this aspect of my life...especially if I am looking to get married before I'm 40. Haha. That really is all I want...to find that girl to settle down with. I have all the typical "provider" qualities, but I need to work on the rest. Instead of just looking for that one, I'm going to have to have fun and do all the things I was resistant to doing before. Just date, have fun, and whatever happens, happens. My formula has been a miserable failure so...time to really follow through and try yours.

The one thing that is a little strange though...is the last 2 girls I was with were nervous around me for some reason and were even afraid to say what was on their mind at times. I'm a pretty friendly talkative guy, but I guess I can be somewhat serious. What kind of vibes am I giving off that they are so afraid of what my reaction may be? The one I just talked to said that about multiple things. She was real comfortable at first but then started closing up. This is way before anything serious came up as well when attraction was high. She said she was still nervous. It's funny because I was always pretty even tempered and rarely angry at anything. Any ideas?


When you're looking to settle down, you tend to give off that vibe, through both your nonverbals and the things you say and talk about. Women can tell that you're "looking," and it puts them on edge.

The ones who are also "looking" will be on their best behavior - you'll never know the real them. Meanwhile, the ones who want to stay single will be nervous, anxious, and uncomfortable. They might feel like they have to be someone they're not if they like you, or they might feel like they're getting in over their heads.

The only way to really get rid of this for good is to get yourself internally to the point where you're fine with girls who aren't long-term material... you just won't see them again, is all. And, you want to be working on your external indicators at the same time - becoming ever less judgmental, and ever more calm and controlled and accepting in the nonverbal indicators you give out.

The ultimate goal here should be that women don't know what you're looking for or what you want, and think that there's a chance you won't even be around all that long. You'll see who they really are that way, and can better decide which girl you most want to have in your life over the long haul.

stealth518 wrote:Chase...thanks a lot man for taking the time to reply in detail to my whole situation, over and over again. It really means a lot and it helped me resolve everything that was driving me nuts. If you didn't tell me that I should send that email, I'd have been waiting anxiously by the phone till Saturday for her to call and then she'd have tried to get together with me to talk about all this BS in person, ending in the same results. Pointless. Anyway, I'll be spending a lot of time reading your site...Thanks again!


Don't mention it, Stealth. Glad you were able to achieve a resolution here.

Here's hoping 2013 is a banner year ;)

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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby aliparpar » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:02 am

Wow! This topic was a long read but was definitely worth it. Thanks a lot stealth for sharing this with us and Chase for posting the solutions. This topic was full of lessons I didn't know about around this subject matter. I now know what to do if a girl put this acts on me in the future.
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Re: Shes scared and wants time...

Postby Rain » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:19 am

Chase wrote:A day or two to think when she's asked for 3 months is nothing. You've got to be telling her, "Sorry, it's too late. Sorry, we're done. Sorry... look, I really like you, but you crossed a line and that line can't be uncrossed. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry." She chases, you push her back... kindly, gently, apologetically, but firmly. She chases, you push her back. She chases, you push her back.

I had a conversation with a female friend dating the male equivalent of your girl here a while back. I explained to her that the "commitment phobe" personality type is a personality that must ALWAYS be in pursuit. The moment he or she knows that you're snagged, the attraction vanishes, and the relationship's over. If you want this person, you must keep him/her chasing, more or less for the rest of your life (or at least until age slows down the passions enough for this person to stay put).

If you want this girl, you need to become what she wants. And what she wants ISN'T a man who wants to commit to her.

She probably wants a man she has to pursue for commitment, virtually forever.

I saw an Indian girl casually once some years back. She was back and forth between Washington, D.C. and San Diego and India. She eloped with her boyfriend in Las Vegas one drunken night after he bought her a luxury car as a wedding gift. And she'd still go out to nightclubs and pick up; she was sprawled out on my bed less than a week after she got hitched.

This girl explained to me how she'd always dated bad boys in the past, and she absolutely LOVED them... until they fell for her and started chasing her for marriage. And they ALWAYS did. And at that point, she couldn't help it - she simply lost interest.

I may be projecting my own experiences onto this girl and she's nothing like this. It may be I'm drawing too many conclusions based on the limited amount of information available on an Internet forum.

But, from what you're saying here, she sounds similar to the commitment-phobe archetype, and I daresay if you want her back, it isn't going to be by being anything short of that one shiny thing she just can't have.

Cheers - and good luck, Stealth. Don't let this one mess with your head that much - if she's the kind of girl I think she is, this is the general pattern she follows with every man - it's no judgment of you.

Best,
Chase


Is there a way to tell if you're a commitment phobe in the context you describe? I'm unsure if I'm like the 'lose interest once they're snagged' or whether the ones I snag, aren't that great to begin with or whether I'm worried that as women get older, life happens, ageing/illness/accident and then you walk into a shopping center in future and prefer a 20y old to your 30/40/50yr old? I think I take marriage vowels seriously and that losing attraction and or an accident scares me. But I also notice, even amongst women in there 20s, I seem to, lose interest once snagged. But then my interest can go very high oneitis if we stop seeing each other. So maybe I'm a bit of both. Although, most oneitis I can move on from, but it always seems to get compared to a oneitis from a few years ago that I'm not sure I've moved on from.

I thought of a possible cure for losing interest once snagged, besides age slowing down the passions enough for the person to stay put... maybe making a conscious decision that, the feeling once snagged is less, but we have enough data points that suggests the feeling will always be less when you 'have' someone. Even amongst those that have less feelings due to you 'having' them, there is still variation. eg women who I have a chance with, there are still ones I prefer over others, even though they're all in the "have snagged them and now lose interest" group.

At the same time, they'd all also be in the "life happens and get old" group. Maybe I fall into both categories?
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Are you experienced in seduction of girls

Postby master77 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:18 am

Hello,

I am in very beginning of seducing girls world.I am looking for experienced person/mentor/wingman to boost my real hands on learning.Is there anyone from the UK?Especially London?Or anywhere from the world?

I really want to learn and so eager to achieve.

Thank you.
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