Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?



Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:56 pm

My apologies if this should go in the general forum, but I felt it more appropriate to go with relationships first three paragraphs are back story/situation

Following on from my post regarding "resolving a huge mistake" I wasn't able to resolve it, and in turn the relationship ended. She beat me to the punch so I wasn't able to deliver the break up in person as I wanted to because I felt she deserved that but it ended on a phone call where I mostly listened while she cried, said things to try and hurt me, ended it saying she wasn't emotionally ready for a relationship, she thought she was but she's not. That she wouldn't be ready for a while and that I deserved better and said she'd get in touch later in the week to give me my stuff back.

I decided I'd do the send off in person, rather than on the phone and I thought we'd end everything on good terms. Days after breaking up she's out at a club and dancing hand in hand with another guy in front of me. I was totally pissed off and after about an hour I couldn't stomach it and had to walk away. She'd have got the reaction she wanted but I couldn't be around that any longer.

I've since cooled down and still think I need to deliver a proper send off to show that I'm in control of my emotions, that incident hasn't bothered me and I'm still the same amazing guy and I handled everything very well.

I was thinking of something along the lines of "I wanted to say this in person, I know this is difficult. I still care for you and I always will. We'll always be a little part of each other's lives. We've got a lot of great memories together and I just want the best for you.

Not really sure how to end it? Not really sure if I should say I'll always care for her? Don't even know how to deliver it after she rubbed a rebound in my face, I honestly feel that's unacceptable but I can't do anything about it now really, especially without appearing emotional/bothered about it no matter how I deliver it. Any thoughts and/or advice?

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Seppuku » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:04 am

Hey man,

So I took the chance to read your previous post - the "big mistake".

Putting a thumb somewhere during the sex act (or whatever your fantasy is) is not a mistake, it is an expression of your physical desire for which, under no circumstance, you should ever have to apologize. She can always remove your thumb if she doesn't like it - some girls hate it, some other girls love it - but if you want to try it, you just should, in all freedom of mind. The fact that she put you in a position to apologize for it means you had the wrong frame with her. Every time she holds the stronger frame, realize that a little bit of her respect for you is evaporating.

With your next girl, you need to establish the right frame from the very beginning (later on it is too late). The right frame is: you un-apologetically take your pleasure as a man. That means not asking her permission, and not having to explain yourself about it. She's always free to remove the thumb if she wants (or whatever your fantasy is), but no apology for your desire.

Now about the breakup. "It is nothing about you. It is really me, because I'm not ready for that" is a classic way to breakup. It is an argument that can't be disputed, and will also spare your ego. Don't take it at face value. What she is really doing is breaking up, sparing your ego, and avoiding endless discussions and tears. She is just telling you how it is and shutting off the discussion.

About the "rebound" guy. Are you sure he hasn't already been in the picture before? That's what girls often do - they wait for a nice cruise ship to come by first, then jump ships. Anyway it doesn't matter. In her mind she has already broken with you, and she is already moving on.

About your nice send-off message:
I was thinking of something along the lines of "I wanted to say this in person, I know this is difficult. I still care for you and I always will. We'll always be a little part of each other's lives. We've got a lot of great memories together and I just want the best for you.

Ask yourself why you want to say this? Are you actually trying to get her back? That won't happen, because she has already moved on. Your nice gentle message isn't going to change anything to that situation. In fact, it will not help you. Perhaps on the contrary it will damage the image she has of you - because it comes across as needy. If there is one thing you should always avoid with women, it is expressing neediness.

I suggest you do the same: forget the nice closure, and just move on. It is a world full of beautiful women, you'll find the next one in due course.

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Hey man,

Thank you for the fast reply, especially before I made a bigger fool of myself giving a good send off when the situation doesn’t call for it. I have no intention of getting back with this girl because we were obviously not compatible for the long term. (This is a huge reply to cover everything mentioned).

The Break up Line
I understand that is a break up line to save the ego, where I actually believed it was she said that she wasn’t over her ex when she thought she was. There were red flags when we were just seeing each other that she wasn’t over him and another one the week before we broke up saying that he’d be at her works Christmas event and that they’d end up shouting at each other. I seen him early on when I was seeing her and his fundamentals were incredibly weak and I heard stories about how he was very needy; so I didn’t see why she was caught up on him and when we started to date it seemed like she’d totally forgot about him until she brought it up during the break up.

The Apology
The reason I apologised for putting my thumb in her ass was her reaction, she said “I can’t believe you did that” in tears, asked for 5 minutes and run out the room. When I done it I felt like she was willing to submit to me, she could barely string a sentence together and had to ask me to stop because “(Snow) I can’t cum anymore” asked if I finished, and when I hadn’t composed herself and got ready to go again. I didn’t just jump straight in I built up to it to which she didn’t resist and it was the second time that I done it when she reacted. I hated that I made her run away like that, panicked and apologised. She had a troubled past from an abusive relationship and asked me not to touch her bum there after I put my thumb on it for a while before, I didn’t say I would and she flipped that I went and put my thumb in there anyway. I thought the apology might have had her lose respect for me but the argument before the break up would suggest it was because she couldn’t tame me.

Auto rejection? Couldn’t tame me? Lost respect? I’m unsure…
She text me saying how she was annoyed when the only day she could go out with me I was out (I asked her out days before when I knew she was free and she said “I’ll see”, I didn’t hear back from her and made plans. At this point I thought we’re as good as over because she wouldn’t comply). Went on to saying that she’s still angry at me for my thumb and that she can’t get over it, that she can’t talk about anything (I specifically said I don’t want to hear about her exes) for fear of making me uncomfortable, I won’t tell her anything (because I won’t tell her how many people I’ve slept with or about my exes) and that she feels really unimportant because I won’t; and that I had done things to her in the bedroom that you should ask about before and not just do it because YOU want to. (In case she hadn’t realised I did what I wanted). Then went on to say and you just decided to do it? What else would you just do? I’m so angry with you!

All of this would suggest auto rejection because she couldn’t get what she wanted from me, but I’m still 50/50 on how weak my apology would have made me look and how I continued to be nice in our text conversations after by not punishing her by removing the kisses from the texts where she was punishing me by not putting on as many. I’m thinking I should have mirrored her as opposed to being classy and not punishing her through it?

The Rebound/Revenge Partner – Then looking to arrange the exchange meet up?
As for the rebound, his fundamentals were also very weak but I couldn’t help but wonder how long he’d have been waiting in the wings for, potentially being a ‘nice’ guy to her while we were arguing. She done it for a reaction, unfortunately I did give her one when I walked of.

She messaged me the day after telling me she will have my stuff ready this week, I’m not sure if she’s done that because she wanted to rub the rebound in my face for her confidence and desirability first. Or if the rebound just didn’t do it because he’d have been nowhere near as good and she wanted to quickly arrange the meet up. In my opinion she could have messaged me any time but purposely done it the day after for a reason. Any thoughts?

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Seppuku » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:54 am

Hey Snow,

thanks for the additional info, it makes it easier to understand the background.

For the thumb story, so it seems she had already tried to let you know she didn't like it, but you tried again anyway. Well you need to calibrate, yeah? If the initial feedback is negative, be more prudent the second time around - or avoid altogether. What I do during the act is that I venture a finger to play around the *ss hole, and see her reaction. No reaction, I'm good and continue to dig in. But if she removes my finger, then I just stop.

However it seems from what you say, that you did build it up, and she didn't give you any negative signs until after... Then exploded at your face. Am I right? what a fucked up mindset! I would connect that with another thing you said, that she had been "in abusive relationships" before. There is a line of thinking that there is no smoke without fire - and girls who have been in "abusive" relationships tend to be low self esteem - what is called "cluster B" in GC articles. In other words, they are in abusive relationships because that's the only way they can really enjoy sex. Very fucked up too! So I'm not sure if that applies to her, but there seems to be a number of red flags with her, in the first place.

In any case, your apology did no good, as you submitted into her drama. Which gives her cause for more drama. The way to treat the drama is to avoid getting sucked into it, and avoid going in justification mode. Then address the drama points logically WHEN she has cooled down. I know it's hard, because it requires a lot of self control. As men, we do need nerves of steel if we want to be able to manage women!

Now as to why she broke with you? Whether her ex BF (that seems was still in the picture?), or the rebound (revenge?) orbiter, or because she lost respect, or couldn't tame you, I don't know. Could be any of these, or a combination of these.

I do know, however, that you shouldn't get into her game when you meet her again for the stuff. It is very unlikely that you'll get her back, at least not now. When you meet her, you need to have your ice-steel face, and keep your cool and your distance. She needs to know that she cannot have you back easy. She needs to be in doubt about that (either way). She will certainly try the same with you and get you to chase (in which case your case is dead). So be the one with the stronger frame, and do not cave in to the chase or other neediness sins.

If there is ever going to be a come back, it will be from her first move.

But frankly, given what you describe, I'd suggest you get new prospects in the loop asap and move on.

Cheers,
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:49 pm

Hey Seppuku,

The Explosion
After the first time I put my thumb on the *ss hole the next day (after we had sex and went to sleep) she did say not to do it, but again she didn't give any negative reaction, didn't flinch, move it or say anything during and so I possibly should have left it at that but I wasn't convinced by her words if I'm honest. She told her friends about what we got up to and when she made a comment that she always feels her ass and p*ssy the day after with me and that its even sore to sit down; to which her friends made a comment about me going in the *ss and when she said no said he'll do it and gave me a look of 'approval' again I kind of took this as a green light to try it again. I possibly should have calibrated and avoided doing it again but during the act I thought I'll work up to it and if there isn't any negative feedback she has submitted and is happy for me to do so. You are right that she gave no negative signs until well after and then exploded in my face. That is a totally fucked up mindset and it caught me off guard. She also took this time to explode about the "face fucking" although she was really into it one night when it was that time of the month.

Cluster B/Crazy Girl
I was aware she was a cluster B type/crazy girl that I should have avoided from the offset, but she was very persistent and dropped all her defensiveness around me that her friends were surprised to see her act so feminine and thought it was weird that she wasn't strong and independent with me. She joked and commented about not sure how she felt about not being the one in charge.

The no smoke without fire thing I think definitely applies to her, I'm typically dominant and rough with my girls and screen for this at the start, if they don't like how I handle them I won't waste my time (I think that reads worse than it is) and she seemed very turned on that I would just hold her throat as she said everyone asks if they can do that first. (Same with the face fucking) Again she really should of grasped that I don't ask for permission and I just do so there was no false pretence or advertisement with this.

Caught of gurard/Ignoring the warning signs
My apology definitely done no good, but unfortunately without any experience with this type of reaction I panicked and lost my nerve to stand strong with the situation. I'll definitely do my best to avoid the drama in the future, fortunately I don't see any further drama happening directly with this one. There were too many red flags that I ignored that I won't be ignoring again.

The exchange game
I don't plan on getting involved in her game, and I have no desire to take her back. I totally agree if there is ever going to be a comeback it will have to be from her first move because I'm certainly not making one. Thank you for the advice on the exchange, I've been totally over thinking it trying to figure out how to handle this. I don't want to appear bothered and I definitely don't want to appear needy. I'm at a loss as to keeping my distance when exchanging stuff, we'll end up in closer proximity than I'd like unless you just mean mostly emotionally distant? This is possibly a stupid question but she gave me something to wear while I perform and I was going to give her it back with her stuff because it doesn't mean anything anymore. If she tells me to keep it do I flat out refuse? Cause I can't help but think I'm giving her a bothered reaction but keeping it is a needy reaction.

Thanks for the reply I really appreciate it and I've already started getting new prospects in the loop and even had some girls that I was seeing before her drop me a message now that she's gone. I know I can do better anyway, despite being very interested in her for some unbeknown reason I questioned myself the first night we started talking because she wasn't as good as my previous girls. That should have been the deciding factor!

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby ray_zorse » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:29 pm

Hey Silence,

Since there has been a bit of discussion over the thumb issue and the apology I decided to weigh in with my thoughts.

My first reaction was that consciously or unconsciously, she was testing you with her drama, and that by apologizing you failed her test leading to a drop in attraction.

Then, reading it more carefully, I saw that she did not react so strongly the first time, and so perhaps there is an argument that you overstepped her articulated boundary (based on her prior experience of abuse) and hence should have apologized. It would be hard to tell, on the spot, in the heat of the moment.

I have relevant experiences of both:

My most recent r/ship before discovering GC, and one that amazingly I handled pretty well until near the end (even without the benefit of GC insights). My GF wanted to take me to a love hotel which she did. It was cool. In an adventurous mode I did what you did, she did not react so well and then I backed off. In hindsight I realize I was far too timid (still in this "the female is the gatekeeper" mindset). And I believe attraction dropped at that time. Starting about then we had relationship problems that could have been unrelated (long distance, me starting to act needy or possessive, etc) however in hindsight with GC insights I lean to thinking this might have killed it.

The other experience relates to an LR I wrote called "Big voice, small package". It seems she was an actual domestic violence survivor, not just drama queen, cluster B or victim mentality. Hard to say why I think this, but she seemed to have a certain basic honesty and directness that I don't associate with the revolving door of cluster B's in my life until then. And she got pretty upset when, more or less through force of habit, I gave her a bit of a spanking during a foreplay session. I cannot remember exactly how I recovered, it could be in the report. But I do remember it was a balancing act wrt. caving in to drama.

Overall, my diagnosis is you would do well to treat EVERYTHING she does as a test until proven otherwise. This will be true in 95% of cases and will get you many more lays, even if you lose the other 5% by being too bold and arrogant and laughing off her concerns by making a joke (this is a good way to deflect attempts at drama).

There's a very good resource called "Franco Seduction", not the Franco from these boards... his book really spoke to me on these topics, cleared up and sharpened my thinking, and explained various past mis-steps. Seppuku mentioned him recently so I believe he's also a devotee.

cheers, Ray
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Seppuku » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:52 am

ray_zorse wrote:My first reaction was that consciously or unconsciously, she was testing you with her drama, and that by apologizing you failed her test leading to a drop in attraction.

It's my read as well.
Then, reading it more carefully, I saw that she did not react so strongly the first time, and so perhaps there is an argument that you overstepped her articulated boundary (based on her prior experience of abuse) and hence should have apologized. It would be hard to tell, on the spot, in the heat of the moment.

She had articulated the boundary, but in a not-so-clearcut way. And the second time she let him do it all the way while he was building it up, then exploded after the fact. Correct me if I'm wrong, Silence. I find it quite weird personally.
Overall, my diagnosis is you would do well to treat EVERYTHING she does as a test until proven otherwise. This will be true in 95% of cases and will get you many more lays, even if you lose the other 5% by being too bold and arrogant and laughing off her concerns by making a joke (this is a good way to deflect attempts at drama).

Fully agree.
There's a very good resource called "Franco Seduction", not the Franco from these boards... his book really spoke to me on these topics, cleared up and sharpened my thinking, and explained various past mis-steps. Seppuku mentioned him recently so I believe he's also a devotee.

Yes, I'm absolutely a devotee. The website Ray refers to is Franco Seduction and the book he mentions is the "Manual of Seduction". A must read, in my opinion. But I actually recommend all of Franco's books. Loads of invaluable insights into women's mind from a very experienced man.
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:47 pm

Hey Ray and Seppuku,

I really appreciate the insights on this, in the heat of the moment I found it incredibly hard to tell and apologised for overstepping the boundary. I'm still unsure whether it was all about the drama or whether I overstepped the boundaries which also leads me to the confusion on whether the breakup came from not being able to be tamed or for apologising and loosing the attraction and possibly as Seppuku mentioned in a previous response a combination of the two. I see a lot of similarities with your first experience Ray so more inclined to lean towards the apology.

The boundary wasn't well articulated and I had several other green lights that would suggest that I could try it again; I will respect boundaries if they say 'no' and will leave it out if there are signs of negative feedback. With building up to it the first attempt during this incident was to check that she was comfortable with it and I didn't go any further than putting the tip of my thumb in; left it in for a while and then took it out moved away and done something else. When I worked my way back to it the second time I got just as far as the tip of my thumb in again and she exploded. Quite weird because it was fine there for a few minutes at the first attempt without any negative signs/reactions.

The point of a domestic violence survivor is very interesting and again I can draw some parallels. I still think this one is a category cluster B/Crazy girl because of the other red flags that were raised, I think she actually enjoyed the spanking because she never once raised a concern about it but I'm interested in reading your LR to see if there is any mention of your recovery Ray.

Treating everything as a test is how I handled this situation after the incident when she brought it up a few times after, I failed to handle the drama very well and I'm contemplating starting another thread to specifically look at the fallout of this because I possibly missed a couple of things that could have ended the drama. Although I'm thinking this would have always ended up a lost cause.

I've never heard of Franco (accept the Franco on GC) but the book mentioned seems a very interesting read, it's had an influence on you both and I'm going to check it out!

The Arranged Exchange
After she messaged me the day after being seen in the club with the 'rebound' she messaged me saying she would have my stuff ready sometime this week. I ignored it because it wasn't on my priorities and it didn't set a meet but read more like a reminder to me. I ended up messaging her this morning to say I'm free Thursday night which her previous message implied she wouldn't be. She then messaged to confirm I meant this week and then messaged back asking me to let her know the time and place for the exchange. I'm going to text her the time and the place and then go and get it out the way.

What are your thoughts on giving her back something she gave to me to wear while I perform/compete? Cause it doesn't mean anything anymore, although arguably it was a gift so if she tells me to keep it do I flat out refuse? Cause I can't help but think I'm giving her a bothered reaction by refusing but keeping it is a needy reaction. I'm following you previous advice and turning up ice-steel faced, keeping my cool and distance.

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Seppuku » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:11 pm

silenceinthesnow wrote:Treating everything as a test is how I handled this situation after the incident when she brought it up a few times after, I failed to handle the drama very well and I'm contemplating starting another thread to specifically look at the fallout of this because I possibly missed a couple of things that could have ended the drama. Although I'm thinking this would have always ended up a lost cause.

Well, don't beat yourself, because it's not easy to keep calm when you have a furious woman freaking out in front of you. In principle, the way to handle that is to keep calm and treat it as a test. But anger is communicative. You should aim to remain uber cool. Not always easy.

What are your thoughts on giving her back something she gave to me to wear while I perform/compete? Cause it doesn't mean anything anymore, although arguably it was a gift so if she tells me to keep it do I flat out refuse?

Well if she gave it to you, as a gift, then it's yours, period. It shouldn't even be discussed.
I'm following you previous advice and turning up ice-steel faced, keeping my cool and distance.

Keep a strong frame, even if she tries to soften it. Good luck!

And let us know what happened.

Cheers,
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:10 pm

Hey Seppuku,

I didn't get chance to read your reply before the exchange tonight but I went in ice-steel faced, kept my cool, kept my distance but didn't keep as strong as I wanted as I feel I got slightly pulled into her game and ended up sticking around longer than the minute or two I expected. It took a lot not to break with my facial expressions if I'm honest, because she played hard ball to try and soften my frame. I didn't budge and this definitely bothered her a lot.

A comment was made about me being very specific with the time (like anyone provides a window when arranging to meet?) and asked why. I don't know why this was an issue I'd always give a set time to meet before? However I answered it with "it was a time and it fits in with my plans". She tried to guess my plans from my usual routine to which I didn't give a definite answer and just said "maybe". This annoyed her and had her saying that I had to tell her. I think the mystery worked.

She initially tried to play dumb and asked if I was out last weekend, to which I said "yes". She then said that she didn't see me, she seen my friend but not me to which I replied "I was there." She then asked what I meant, I didn't elaborate further. Then the 'angle' changed to I apparently gave one of her friends a 'look' (which would suggest I was there?) to then explaining she was out with some 'guy friends' that tried to keep her away from me because they were 'worried' what would happen. So they're either not as good friends and they say they are or they were feeling very brave if they were actually worried because they were about 3ft away.

I ended up giving back the 'gift', she tried to give it back and said she didn't want it back, I replied at point blank "well it doesn't mean anything to me; it's yours, you should keep it". I think this was a strong move because it shown I was cutting all ties. The tests were relentless to get me to break even going as far as her apologising for her reaction and apologising for the break up. Trying to explain that she 'tried' but that, that situation scared her. Honestly I almost broke at this but managed to keep composed telling myself it's a test.

She kept asking if I'm always going to be this blunt with her, if I'm just going to be like this and pretend she doesn't exist. When this got her nowhere she changed to asking me if I was alright and saying that she doesn't want it to be like this. Just before parting she said that she had to go into the shop where we met outside of and asked if I wanted to go in with her or if I was going. I was going, I had plans...

She sent through a text about half an hour after I left to apologise for it getting awkward and to say she didn't want to bring up 'that night' it just kind of happened. I'm thinking this was a move to get a conversation going but not really sure if it's even worth a reply.

I don't know what she expected or wanted, but I'm not going to be an orbiter or stuck in the friend zone to please her ego. Especially not when I was out with another opportunity anyway!

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Seppuku » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:55 pm

Good job!

You kept the icy frame, and watched her own frame break down. Interesting, right? And I bet you, she didn't expect that, at all. More or less, she came in very confident she would have the higher ground, but when it didn't work as expected, she broke down and lost it. Watch for her signs of chasing, now.

Interesting also how she kept changing the story about the rebound orbiter (I assume it's the most likely scenario). And how she seemed to forget that she was the one breaking up with you a few days ago. Well, granted, she apologized for the break up, but she also sent a text about "that night", implying that in her mind that was the main cause of your reaction?

In any case, it was an interesting encounter. It makes me think that we should give a controlled dose of this icy steel frame, once in a while, with the girls we are seeing, just to keep them on their toes. The bad things happen when they believe they completely have us.

Alright, well done.

Cheers,
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Eliasmusic » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:17 am

Honestly guys this would all be fabulous advice if you were in some way still involved with this girl, but why the fuck are you busy trying to outframe/outgame someone who you are no longer gaming. If there was any chance of a future relationship of any sort then maybe you might have wanted to keep playing but it doesn't seem that way. Why try and cover up emotions that seem to be there. I mean unless she's a complete bitch and deserves to be put in her place, I wouldn't have spent so fucking long figuring out how to deal with her. A guy who is scared to show his emotions is generally gonna be less alpha in the long run than one who is open and unashamed by them. Fear has to be faced, not given in to.

That being said, I'm not saying you majorly fucked up or anything, this could have gone way worse haha, just wondering if maybe your overall attitude is directed to much towards trying to appear like a strong stoic alpha rather than actually trying to become one.

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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Seppuku » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:36 am

Hey Elias,

Eliasmusic wrote:Honestly guys this would all be fabulous advice if you were in some way still involved with this girl, but why the fuck are you busy trying to outframe/outgame someone who you are no longer gaming.

Your point, if I'm right, is why would we put any effort in a girl we no longer want to see? Trying to continue to game a girl after we decided we wont see her, is giving her still too much importance. Yes, this is correct, in principle.

However:

  • It was not entirely clear, initially, if Silence didn't have further intention with her, or not;
  • Unless she's the sort of Cluster B, it is always better NOT to formally close things imo. You never know about later, so always leave doors opened
Silence wanted to "send off" a nice ending message. But that's the Nice Guy frame, and it's not going to help him. Instead I made him reverse the frame and turn the tables on her. Sorry about the emotions. But that way makes it more likely for her to come back, than the nice send off.

But there is another reason for doing this. If you want to get good at frame control, then practice frame control all the time (and not just when you need it). It pays off in the end because over time, it really becomes a part of who you are. Then it is no longer "gaming", it's the real you.

A guy who is scared to show his emotions is generally gonna be less alpha in the long run than one who is open and unashamed by them. Fear has to be faced, not given in to. That being said, I'm not saying you majorly fucked up or anything, this could have gone way worse haha, just wondering if maybe your overall attitude is directed to much towards trying to appear like a strong stoic alpha rather than actually trying to become one.

In my opinion, it's exactly the opposite, just for the reason I stated above.

Well, that's my reasons for advising him the way I did anyway!

Cheers man!
Seppuku
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:59 pm

Hey Seppuku and Elias,

It was very interesting watching her frame break down, I think I stuck about longer than I wanted to just to see how many angles she would try. I highly doubt she expected it and I seen signs of chasing throughout the exchange most notably when I first went to walk off. There were further signs of chasing when she text me after when there was no real reason to, we were done. She even ended up coming out to the club the night after the exchange when she shouldn't have been out.

I'm not sure if she came out in the hopes of talking to me or to try and show of her rebound again, she ended up seeing me over by the bar talking to a couple of girls then immediately turned round and walked off. She didn't stick about much longer after that, maybe about 20 minutes. I'm guessing that it hit her hard even if she wasn't second guessing her decision.

I totally agree with Seppuku that it was a great opportunity for frame control, one that I didn't even think of but reversing the frame was the best approach. I understand where you're coming from about being scared to show emotions, to which I think you should definitely be calculated with them. If I'd have reacted towards the rebound as annoyed as I was at the time she'd have known she'd have got under my skin, which is what she was looking for that night. She wanted a reaction and it didn't happen. I think this was highlighted during the exchange when she asked if I was out...

This also leads me into the thought that the 'game' hadn't stopped, and she was still playing. Keeping the icy frame to avoid being sucked into her game stopped any reaction she was hoping to get and has set the stall out that it won't be easy if she wants me back and I'm not going to be put in her friend zone in case she changes her mind. This also keeps the door open as Seppuku suggested in a powerful way because it left her chasing, and not with a lot of drama which could have happened from the game she was looking to play.

Cheers for the insights guys, it's greatly appreciated!

SilenceintheSnow
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Eliasmusic » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:32 pm

I think you're missing my point guys... Within this specific interaction what you did was pretty good, and I agree if she's showing you her rebound in front of you then for sure you wanna be reframing the shit out of that and ignoring her very existence on this earth, perhaps acknowledging her long enough to introduce her to your new girl for that night haha... My main point was that if you ever want to have relationships that don't involve the permanent playing of games (which I'd suggest you try, they're a breath of fresh air) then you need to have the strength to open up and put yourself in a place of vulnerability aka showing your feelings.

In your defense-
1- This was obviously not the situation to do this... When a girl is that 'gamey' herself then it's not really the right situation to go and try and be genuine with her.
2- You will never have a completely 'game-free' relationship... Obviously you need to always stay on your toes, because as soon as you lose your touch, the girl who you were being 'honest and genuine' with will dominate you in a fucking instant...

BUT... if you're able to walk the fine line between 1- keeping your game in shape, and 2- doing what the fuck you want, saying what the fuck you want, and not having to run every possible action and response through your filter of 'what will she think of this' 'how will she respond to that' then you'll be doing well.

Maybe I didn't articulate my point all that well before, but do you not see that you're essentially outcome dependent and when you're thinking like that? You are essentially shaping your behaviour dependent upon how she reacts to it. Her reactions determine your behaviour. And YES, it can work the other way round... Your coldness 'Silence' resulted in her chasing... this IS be a great way to get the reactions you want- namely, her chasing you, but it also has the negative which you should be aware of- you aren't free to do what the fuck you want. I'd suggest this freedom of just free-balling it, is a very nice element or skill to have in your repertoire.

Anyway... No shade on what you're doing bro... I just wanna reframe the whole situation and provide a slightly different view of the social dynamics your dealing with.
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:20 pm

Hey Elias and Seppukku,

Ironically what I initially liked about this girl was that there weren't silly little games, there were games and tests occasionally but I dismissed the games and got past the tests. I'm not much of an emotional person anyway but I let her know I cared enough that she didn't go into total auto rejection.

The relationship in turn wasn't permanent playing of games and I didn't run every outcome through a filter, I just done what I wanted. I lead and she followed, it was simple up until and after the apology. The reframe during the exchange was required and was great practice at frame control.

There's been further signs of chasing since being seen talking to the other girls, after a week of radio silence she hit me up with a good luck text before my recent show. Followed by what I presume to be a shot fired on social media? A post basically saying 'you can have your fame I'm over you' which I'm taking as being aimed at me with it being posted the day after my show. I'm also thinking definitely not over me.

I've just ignored it, but I'm thinking any post now relating to the last show could be taken as a response to it. She could draw a connection to it if she wants to so her games continue.

SilenceintheSnow
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Fuck This » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:16 pm

Time to go no contact dude...and look forward. Block her on social media, and text. Don't let her re-engage. The only thing that should let you re-engage is if she expressly states to you that breaking up with you for sticking a finger in her ass was a mistake.
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:14 pm

Hey Fuck This,

I did somewhat go no contact with this girl from the minute we broke up, I haven’t contacted her in any way shape or form unless she reached out to me such as arranging the exchange and the good luck text for the show where I replied saying ‘Thanks’though possibly should have ignored it. I haven’t removed her from social media because I don’t particularly use it much and we have some mutual friends so it could create social issues. Although I’m starting to feel I might have to remove her from it to stop these mind games.

Over the last couple of days I’ve had a little bit of an 'insight' into the ‘shot’ that was fired when one of the girls I’ve started seeing asked me if a knew a girl called [NAME] which is now my ex. I said yes I did, but didn’t explain how I knew her or shown any concern for their interaction. She went on to say that she met her in the club this past week and got talking and that she shown her a picture of me. I have no idea what picture was shown, the reason it was shown, what was said or any context and I haven’t pressed the new girl for details as to not be concerned although I’m rather curious how it even came about.

My initial thoughts on this judging by how distant the new girl now is, is that she’s said something negative about me which has put red flags up for the new girl. The ‘shot’ that was then fired is possibly because she now knows I’m seeing over girls and so she’s telling herself (publically) that she’s over me even though she most probably isn’t. Rebound phase and possibly still strong mixed feelings for me of love and hate? Again I don’t know what was said but it looks to have caused some resistance.

I’ve been left more confused thinking if you’re ‘over me’ why fire ‘shots’ on social media? Unless to get my attention, but without a response surely that would provoke her to then contact me? I think this might get very interesting very fast. I’m going to continue further with the no contact and see what happens.

I feel it would help if I could pin point the reason of the break up, the apology would have appeared weak, needy and unattractive but everything else said would suggest I wasn’t tame enough; and to say she wasn’t over her clingy, needy ex would suggest she wants something more tame. So again why fire 'shots' at me? Seems counterproductive if I’m not even what she wants? I'd even want her to go further than that on the apology if she did re-engage about saying that she's not over her ex because it effectively says I'm second best. I don't do second place! Haha definitely moving forward, hopefully without further interference.

SilenceintheSnow
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Are you experienced in seduction of girls

Postby master77 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:17 am

Hello,

I am in very beginning of seducing girls world.I am looking for experienced person/mentor/wingman to boost my real hands on learning.Is there anyone from the UK?Especially London?Or anywhere from the world?

I really want to learn and so eager to achieve.

Thank you.
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:49 pm

Hey guys, so there's an update to this whole situation. I bumped into her again last weekend and she seen me with another girl, got very jealous and asked to speak with me. She apologised for a lot of things but threw in some excuses for good measure. Again I kept icy facials, calm, cool and distant and didn't give her an emotional response which kept her chasing more. I left it at this.

I was out again this weekend and she ended up being out again. I think she purposely came out to see me so I kept my distance and didn't acknowledge her. She came up to me again and asked if we could talk, so I agreed. This conversation was more in line to what I wanted the first time where she admitted that she made a mistake and apologised and said how she wants to go back in time and change everything. She said that she still loves me and wants to be with me, and that she couldn't look at me because all she wants to do is kiss me. (She later did but I didn't kiss back fully because I'm not that easily won) I didn't react or say anything, again being like steel to her which broke her a bit.

She begged me to say something to which I said 'I've got nothing more to say to you' which made her eyes fill up. This was quite difficult for me to watch but I kept my nerve. I broke when she then asked me if I ever loved her by giving her the answer that yes I did. I knew I shouldn't have even gave a response and left it but I slipped up. The night took an interesting turn after this when her drink got spiked, I couldn't leave her in a dangerous/vulnerable situation and so I made sure I got her home safe and then left immediately to make it clear I didn't look after her to bring her back into my life.

We spoke on the phone the day after, after she rang me about 3 times. She asked me what happened last night because she couldn't fully remember. I kept it brief and gave a quick rundown of what had happened to not be kept on the phone. I mostly let her talk and just kept silent which lead her to asking me if I wanted her to talk or to leave me alone. I told her to do what she wants I'm not bothered to which she said she still wants me in her life and that she knows she can't go back in time and that she'd like to be my friend. I hung up shortly after this but called her back to say that she deserved an answer and that no we can't be friends. Not after last night, it's not what she wants, neither of us would be happy in that situation and we can't.

She tried to say how we could be friends and how difficult it was for her to not have me in her life anymore and she doesn't understand how anyone can cut someone out of their life entirely. I just got to my mates house so I told her that I was at my mates and I had to go and then hung up.

It's been playing on my mind a little bit since that I hadn't told her what I wanted and I hadn't told her to fix the problem. I know she can't read my mind and so coming about 90% of the way there to what I wanted in an apology it's crossed my mind that I could take her back but I still need that last piece. However I'm thinking I can't cave and message her that we need to talk to tell her what I want from her to be given a second chance, but I doubt she'll come back another time after she's failed to get me twice. Am I best of leaving it altogether after missing my chance to tell her exactly what I wanted? Any ideas on how to handle this situation?

SilenceintheSnow
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby Fuck This » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:15 pm

If you and this woman had no history together but you watched her treat your buddy the way she treated you would you want to START a relationship with her knowing what you know?

I think waiting on an apology is a poor criteria for renewing a broken relationship. If you take her back now, she knows you will forgive her....and take advantage of your forgiveness...
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Re: Any advice for a "send off" after your relationship has ended?

Postby silenceinthesnow » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:26 pm

Hey Fuck This,

Thanks for the reply man, I appreciate it and I like the way you look at it. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't want to start a relationship with her and wouldn't get involved. I think my mind has became very clouded by what happened this past weekend and I found myself very conflicted which is what has gave me doubt.

Its not so much waiting on an apology, because she admitted it was a mistake (which is the criteria you stated in a previous response) and she apologised for the issues. She covered everything I wanted from her to even consider taking her back accept addressing one of the problems directly she only apologised for it but didn't say how she would move forward from it. She spent more time begging for another chance...

A couple weeks back I was reading the article 'If she doesn't meet your needs, Fix it, Tell her, or Cut Bait' because I usually just cut bait if I don't feel my needs are being met and didn't once think of telling the girls in my life to fix it. I started thinking after the last phone call when I told her neither of us would be happy as friends that I didn't tell her how to fix it even when she practically asked how she could. I was debating on whether this would be a good time to use this technique but you're right, it would show that I'll forgive her and she will take advantage of that.

The longer it's been the less clouded my mind has became from last weekend and I've realised I'd be giving her a second chance because I know how much it means to her and not because that's what I want. Just because I believe she was being totally honest in her vulnerable state doesn't mean she deserves a second chance...I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt and I wouldn't start a relationship knowing what I know now.

SilenceintheSnow
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