mrre said:
I don't exactly agree with OldGuy and lostnumber, not having a jab at you guys but this is just my take on the issue.
It is important to set early expectations in the beginning of the relationship so if you were taking her to dinners and sending her flowers in the beginning, it's quite normal that she'll cause some trouble after you stop doing that stuff.
I bought flowers maybe once or twice in my relationships and went to dinner dates only a handful of times. Do you know how we usually spent time? She came, we fucked, she cooked dinner, we ate, watched something and fucked again. We also would go swimming together but we both enjoyed that. Of course this is a gross generalization but you don't have to do a lot of outside activities together (I guess unless if she is a total activity girl and you are the opposite but if that's the case why are you with her?). And they told me that all their previous boyfriends did stuff for them not the other way around. They were very happy and they were very much in love. In fact, my ex just paid for my plane ticket to her country so I could go to her and give her some loving, telling me she still loved me as intensely after one year.
Okay I think if she is testing you more, arguing with you more the problem is with regard to respect. She somehow lost confidence in your ability to lead well. This might be due to a number of issues: (1) You might be acting weak, (2) you might not be fullfilling her needs.
First order of business is that you always always maintain your frame. Do not do anything you do not want to do. You are approaching this from a wrong mindset. You want to comply with her requests which you do not want to comply while be seen as dominant. Otherwise it wouldn't be an issue, you'd just say yeah, I've been meaning to do that stuff but it slipped my mind, good of you to remind me and go do it, or do it without her telling you this. This is acting. You don't want to *act* dominant, you want to *be* dominant. So never do what you don't want to do and if she is giving you drama over that, there's the door. Need the relationship less then her. So take a look at your behaviour, are you giving into to her frame lately, have you lost your abundance mentality? Are you strong?
Secondly you may not be giving what she needs. So maybe nowadays you are so used to her now, you don't *listen* to her. Listen to her, deep dive her (deep diving is not just about pickup). Ask her how that thing she talked about made her feel. Understand her. Empower her. If she comes to you with these request in a rational, let's solve this babe kinda way, talk with her. After you listen to her and really understand what upsets her, you can solve it. But communicate *your* feelings and reasons as well. This needs to be open, clear communication. Not sending her flowers is almost never a real issue, it's more likely that she feels neglected by you or something like that. If you think that you guys really should so more activities together, suggest things you'll both enjoy and ask her to plan it.
But I really want to stress this again, your internal frame should not be, how to comply with her requests and still seem as dominant. It should be, I am the guy so my will is paramount but she is under my care so I have to give her what she really needs, so let's figure that out.
Hope it helps.
I have a hunch that we don't fundamentally disagree on the principles here MRRE, but its likely that we have different relationship experiences, and possibly different relationship goals as well. I also think you are presenting your position in more black and white terms then what you actually practice in real life. Yes, I've also had plenty of relationships where I never gave a girl flowers, and did what you describe in your first paragraph. And while those were great relationships, they inevitably lasted a much shorter period of time then relationships where we actively did things together, traveled, gave each other romantic gestures, and so forth.
For this conversation we need to differentiate between a relationship where you are seeing a girl 1-2 times a week and potentially seeing other girls simultaneously, and a true long term committed relationship. For a girl you are seeing casually I agree your method will work, and you really SHOULDN'T be buying her flowers. But if you are spending the majority of your time with one particular girl you need to run things differently. Having a girl come over and cook and fuck and watch a movie and doing nothing else is not a viable gameplan if you are seeing someone 4-5 times a week. Girls will get bored with that, unless you are dating a total couch potato. Hell I'D get bored doing that.
Flowers themselves are symbolic and meaningless, but romantic gestures are not. Because flowers are cheap, and convenient, and societaly expected, I find it far easier to use them then to break the box and do something different. Yes, you could run a happy relationship without ever buying a girl flowers if you were showing her your love in other ways. Probably you could even talk to a girl and explain why flowers are bullshit and get her to buy in if you frame it the right way. But unless you feel strongly about the issue its going to be way easier to go with the flow(ers) on this one. I think Chase has a post or article where he talks about how you can talk a girl out of monogamous societal expectations, but every time she gets together with her friends/family she's going to re-set and you'll have to get her to buy in all over again. Its the same thing for something like flowers on a lesser scale. When every friend of hers is getting roses for valentines day, and talking about all the romantic things their BF/husband did, your girl is going to feel insecure. Just buy her flowers, trust me; its way easier than the alternative.
Based on the OP's post I think he's already discussed things with the girl and she brought up the issues she is having fairly directly. They aren't doing any activities together, and he isn't giving her any romantic gestures, so it doesn't feel like he is trying. I don't think this is a case where we need to look deeper and see "What is she really asking?" She is asking to do more activities, receive more romantic gestures, and to feel like he is putting more effort into the relationship.
I want to call you out on one thing in particular that you said.
So never do what you don't want to do and if she is giving you drama over that, there's the door.
I don't buy this even in the slightest. Sure its the most alpha dominant frame, but its also incredibly selfish. In a perfect partnership the both of you will want exactly the same things. In reality, the two of you will want different things much of the time, and will have to balance those two needs. A successful relationship is about fulfilling your needs while figuring out how to fulfill your partners needs at the same time.
Sometimes fulfilling a girls needs will involve doing things you don't want to do. Unless you meet your perfect soul mate there is simply no way around this. You don't want to run around doing everything a girl asks you to. You should retain dominance, yes. You should be the decision maker, yes. But if you approach ANY social interaction with the attitude of "my way or the highway at all times, no matter what" you aren't going to get very far imo. I mean, lets apply that attitude to a couple of other examples and see where it gets us:
"Sorry friends, you all voted for something I don't want to do so I'm going to take my toys and go home rather than accept the groups decision." "Sorry business partner, but I don't agree with one aspect of how you want to run the business, so I'm going to shut our business down." "Sorry boss, I don't want to do the task you've assigned me so I'm losing my job." "Sorry Family, I don't want to spend time with Aunt Margaret so I'm not going to our family gatherings" Yeah, its pretty obvious that speaking in absolute terms like this is not a productive frame for life interactions. I suspect you aren't as rigid as your post is making you out to be. Maybe this is your internal idealization of your philosophy, but your external actions are undoubtedly much more balanced and calibrated. Otherwise you wouldn't have ex gfs saying they love you and paying for your plane tickets.
In the OPS example, his girl needs more activities. The best way to fulfill that need while also fulfilling his own needs is to pick activities that both would enjoy, which it sounds like you agree with. I would disagree with your suggestion of outsourcing this to the girl though; I think its important that he plans most of these activities himself. His question is not "how do I empower this girl in our relationship" but "How do I put more effort into this while still being dominant." The person who plans and executes the activities is the leader in the context of those activities, period. Having a girl plan the activities for you is giving up that leadership to her, which is the opposite of what the OP wants. Its also asking her to put more effort into the relationship instead of putting more in himself, which is the opposite of what his girl is asking him to do. Sometimes in a relationship its good to hand off the reins, empower the other person, take something off your plate, what-have you. But in this case I think that would be the wrong move for a variety of reasons
Anyway, nothing wrong with some disagreement and spirited discussion