Regaining dominant frame in LTR

drewc94

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Feb 17, 2015
Messages
17
I've been in a relationship with this girl for almost a year and a half now. Throughout the first year I was a dominant, strong willed, know-what-I-want type of guy. However, about 6 months ago we moved in together, we both got new jobs, and we both go to school full time so we both became very busy. I'm beginning to realize that over the course of those 6 months I've let my frame slip; I've become lazy with my effort, and it's beginning to affect my mindset/relationship.

Recently we've been arguing more over stupid small shit and she's been testing me more often; but yesterday was sort of a turning point for the better or worse in our relationship, and I'm not exactly sure how to navigate these tricky waters. She told me that I rarely ever try anymore with the exception of sex (we still do have great sex so the relationship isn't totally fucked) and mentioned some things like never buying her flowers, all we do is stay in the apartment to spend time together (i.e. we never go out on dates), etc. I agree with some of these things, and I told her that a good relationship is something that is important to me, and I realize I haven't been making the effort that I need be in order to maintain a good relationship.

So here's the concept I'm trying to grasp: how do I start showing effort and doing some of those things that are important to her, but at the same time make it seem like I'm doing them because I want to and not just because she asked. Is it possible to come across dominant while complying to her request? If so, is there a time limit I should wait before taking the right actions? Or is it just a scenario where I need to shelf my ego and do what I need to do for my relationship.

Thanks guys, hopefully this can help someone else who's feeling the same way.
 

lostnumber

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Aug 31, 2017
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307
Drewc, this is a very normal thing to happen and you are not alone! Despite my best efforts, in every relationship I've ever had there was a point where I became more complacent then I should have been. and stopped putting in the proper effort. It's natural human behavior that we put out A game on to get a girl. But since you cant maintain your A game 24/7 365, you'll inevitably find that a LTR ends up getting your B game a lot of the time. And then at a certain point, if you aren't careful, you'll wake up one morning and find that you've slipped into C game territory. The good news is that your girl is calling you out on it early, before the attraction had died. A lot of times by the time you get to this point the attraction is gone and sex has disapeared.The fact that you guys are still having awesome sex is a great sign that you can turn things around and get back on track.

I think you have a good read on the situation, which is that you need to be putting more work into managing your relationship, but you don't want to show up tomorrow with your tail between your legs and a fistful of roses just because your girl got angry with you. So how do you up your game while maintaining control? I have two suggestions for you.

The first would to focus on doing some activities together. Find some shows or events that YOU would like which you think she would also enjoy, and invite her out. If you guys normally split things (which I recommend) then continue splitting. If you guys alternate paying then you can buy tickets and have her buy the dinner. Whatever your normal setup is, don't change it, and invite her out to an activity you choose, making sure its something she will also enjoy. This is a way you can take action and address her concerns without capitulating and losing your man-card. Because you are controlling the frame here and picking something you would want to do anyway, there is no reason to wait; look up options and invite her out ASAP.

Regarding flowers and other romantic gestures, Christmas is right around the corner and would be a perfect opportunity for something like that without looking like you are giving in. Valetines is the "traditional" romantic holiday, but there is no reason you can't use Christmas as an opportunity to give some romantic gifts and rack up boyfriend points. Since it's normal to exchange gifts on Christmas you are maintaining a dominant frame by not going out of your way, but you'll still be showing her you care. Then if at a later date (say a random day in the spring) you choose to buy flowers spontaneously you'll have put enough time in for it to be a strong gesture that you are making on your own terms.

And of course keep having awesome sex throughout ;)

Hope that gives you a few ideas!
 

OldGuy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Jun 10, 2017
Messages
69
On Valentine's send (or better. bring) her flowers at work. Few women get flowers at work that day, so she scores high status points there, which will rebound to your benefit.
 

Sandman

Cro-Magnon Man
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Apr 18, 2016
Messages
359
I don't exactly agree with OldGuy and lostnumber, not having a jab at you guys but this is just my take on the issue.

It is important to set early expectations in the beginning of the relationship so if you were taking her to dinners and sending her flowers in the beginning, it's quite normal that she'll cause some trouble after you stop doing that stuff.

I bought flowers maybe once or twice in my relationships and went to dinner dates only a handful of times. Do you know how we usually spent time? She came, we fucked, she cooked dinner, we ate, watched something and fucked again. We also would go swimming together but we both enjoyed that. Of course this is a gross generalization but you don't have to do a lot of outside activities together (I guess unless if she is a total activity girl and you are the opposite but if that's the case why are you with her?). And they told me that all their previous boyfriends did stuff for them not the other way around. They were very happy and they were very much in love. In fact, my ex just paid for my plane ticket to her country so I could go to her and give her some loving, telling me she still loved me as intensely after one year.

Okay I think if she is testing you more, arguing with you more the problem is with regard to respect. She somehow lost confidence in your ability to lead well. This might be due to a number of issues: (1) You might be acting weak, (2) you might not be fullfilling her needs.

First order of business is that you always always maintain your frame. Do not do anything you do not want to do. You are approaching this from a wrong mindset. You want to comply with her requests which you do not want to comply while be seen as dominant. Otherwise it wouldn't be an issue, you'd just say yeah, I've been meaning to do that stuff but it slipped my mind, good of you to remind me and go do it, or do it without her telling you this. This is acting. You don't want to *act* dominant, you want to *be* dominant. So never do what you don't want to do and if she is giving you drama over that, there's the door. Need the relationship less then her. So take a look at your behaviour, are you giving into to her frame lately, have you lost your abundance mentality? Are you strong?

Secondly you may not be giving what she needs. So maybe nowadays you are so used to her now, you don't *listen* to her. Listen to her, deep dive her (deep diving is not just about pickup). Ask her how that thing she talked about made her feel. Understand her. Empower her. If she comes to you with these request in a rational, let's solve this babe kinda way, talk with her. After you listen to her and really understand what upsets her, you can solve it. But communicate *your* feelings and reasons as well. This needs to be open, clear communication. Not sending her flowers is almost never a real issue, it's more likely that she feels neglected by you or something like that. If you think that you guys really should so more activities together, suggest things you'll both enjoy and ask her to plan it.

But I really want to stress this again, your internal frame should not be, how to comply with her requests and still seem as dominant. It should be, I am the guy so my will is paramount but she is under my care so I have to give her what she really needs, so let's figure that out.

Hope it helps.
 

lostnumber

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
307
mrre said:
I don't exactly agree with OldGuy and lostnumber, not having a jab at you guys but this is just my take on the issue.

It is important to set early expectations in the beginning of the relationship so if you were taking her to dinners and sending her flowers in the beginning, it's quite normal that she'll cause some trouble after you stop doing that stuff.

I bought flowers maybe once or twice in my relationships and went to dinner dates only a handful of times. Do you know how we usually spent time? She came, we fucked, she cooked dinner, we ate, watched something and fucked again. We also would go swimming together but we both enjoyed that. Of course this is a gross generalization but you don't have to do a lot of outside activities together (I guess unless if she is a total activity girl and you are the opposite but if that's the case why are you with her?). And they told me that all their previous boyfriends did stuff for them not the other way around. They were very happy and they were very much in love. In fact, my ex just paid for my plane ticket to her country so I could go to her and give her some loving, telling me she still loved me as intensely after one year.

Okay I think if she is testing you more, arguing with you more the problem is with regard to respect. She somehow lost confidence in your ability to lead well. This might be due to a number of issues: (1) You might be acting weak, (2) you might not be fullfilling her needs.

First order of business is that you always always maintain your frame. Do not do anything you do not want to do. You are approaching this from a wrong mindset. You want to comply with her requests which you do not want to comply while be seen as dominant. Otherwise it wouldn't be an issue, you'd just say yeah, I've been meaning to do that stuff but it slipped my mind, good of you to remind me and go do it, or do it without her telling you this. This is acting. You don't want to *act* dominant, you want to *be* dominant. So never do what you don't want to do and if she is giving you drama over that, there's the door. Need the relationship less then her. So take a look at your behaviour, are you giving into to her frame lately, have you lost your abundance mentality? Are you strong?

Secondly you may not be giving what she needs. So maybe nowadays you are so used to her now, you don't *listen* to her. Listen to her, deep dive her (deep diving is not just about pickup). Ask her how that thing she talked about made her feel. Understand her. Empower her. If she comes to you with these request in a rational, let's solve this babe kinda way, talk with her. After you listen to her and really understand what upsets her, you can solve it. But communicate *your* feelings and reasons as well. This needs to be open, clear communication. Not sending her flowers is almost never a real issue, it's more likely that she feels neglected by you or something like that. If you think that you guys really should so more activities together, suggest things you'll both enjoy and ask her to plan it.

But I really want to stress this again, your internal frame should not be, how to comply with her requests and still seem as dominant. It should be, I am the guy so my will is paramount but she is under my care so I have to give her what she really needs, so let's figure that out.

Hope it helps.

I have a hunch that we don't fundamentally disagree on the principles here MRRE, but its likely that we have different relationship experiences, and possibly different relationship goals as well. I also think you are presenting your position in more black and white terms then what you actually practice in real life. Yes, I've also had plenty of relationships where I never gave a girl flowers, and did what you describe in your first paragraph. And while those were great relationships, they inevitably lasted a much shorter period of time then relationships where we actively did things together, traveled, gave each other romantic gestures, and so forth.

For this conversation we need to differentiate between a relationship where you are seeing a girl 1-2 times a week and potentially seeing other girls simultaneously, and a true long term committed relationship. For a girl you are seeing casually I agree your method will work, and you really SHOULDN'T be buying her flowers. But if you are spending the majority of your time with one particular girl you need to run things differently. Having a girl come over and cook and fuck and watch a movie and doing nothing else is not a viable gameplan if you are seeing someone 4-5 times a week. Girls will get bored with that, unless you are dating a total couch potato. Hell I'D get bored doing that.

Flowers themselves are symbolic and meaningless, but romantic gestures are not. Because flowers are cheap, and convenient, and societaly expected, I find it far easier to use them then to break the box and do something different. Yes, you could run a happy relationship without ever buying a girl flowers if you were showing her your love in other ways. Probably you could even talk to a girl and explain why flowers are bullshit and get her to buy in if you frame it the right way. But unless you feel strongly about the issue its going to be way easier to go with the flow(ers) on this one. I think Chase has a post or article where he talks about how you can talk a girl out of monogamous societal expectations, but every time she gets together with her friends/family she's going to re-set and you'll have to get her to buy in all over again. Its the same thing for something like flowers on a lesser scale. When every friend of hers is getting roses for valentines day, and talking about all the romantic things their BF/husband did, your girl is going to feel insecure. Just buy her flowers, trust me; its way easier than the alternative.

Based on the OP's post I think he's already discussed things with the girl and she brought up the issues she is having fairly directly. They aren't doing any activities together, and he isn't giving her any romantic gestures, so it doesn't feel like he is trying. I don't think this is a case where we need to look deeper and see "What is she really asking?" She is asking to do more activities, receive more romantic gestures, and to feel like he is putting more effort into the relationship.

I want to call you out on one thing in particular that you said.
So never do what you don't want to do and if she is giving you drama over that, there's the door.
I don't buy this even in the slightest. Sure its the most alpha dominant frame, but its also incredibly selfish. In a perfect partnership the both of you will want exactly the same things. In reality, the two of you will want different things much of the time, and will have to balance those two needs. A successful relationship is about fulfilling your needs while figuring out how to fulfill your partners needs at the same time. Sometimes fulfilling a girls needs will involve doing things you don't want to do. Unless you meet your perfect soul mate there is simply no way around this. You don't want to run around doing everything a girl asks you to. You should retain dominance, yes. You should be the decision maker, yes. But if you approach ANY social interaction with the attitude of "my way or the highway at all times, no matter what" you aren't going to get very far imo. I mean, lets apply that attitude to a couple of other examples and see where it gets us:
"Sorry friends, you all voted for something I don't want to do so I'm going to take my toys and go home rather than accept the groups decision." "Sorry business partner, but I don't agree with one aspect of how you want to run the business, so I'm going to shut our business down." "Sorry boss, I don't want to do the task you've assigned me so I'm losing my job." "Sorry Family, I don't want to spend time with Aunt Margaret so I'm not going to our family gatherings" Yeah, its pretty obvious that speaking in absolute terms like this is not a productive frame for life interactions. I suspect you aren't as rigid as your post is making you out to be. Maybe this is your internal idealization of your philosophy, but your external actions are undoubtedly much more balanced and calibrated. Otherwise you wouldn't have ex gfs saying they love you and paying for your plane tickets.

In the OPS example, his girl needs more activities. The best way to fulfill that need while also fulfilling his own needs is to pick activities that both would enjoy, which it sounds like you agree with. I would disagree with your suggestion of outsourcing this to the girl though; I think its important that he plans most of these activities himself. His question is not "how do I empower this girl in our relationship" but "How do I put more effort into this while still being dominant." The person who plans and executes the activities is the leader in the context of those activities, period. Having a girl plan the activities for you is giving up that leadership to her, which is the opposite of what the OP wants. Its also asking her to put more effort into the relationship instead of putting more in himself, which is the opposite of what his girl is asking him to do. Sometimes in a relationship its good to hand off the reins, empower the other person, take something off your plate, what-have you. But in this case I think that would be the wrong move for a variety of reasons

Anyway, nothing wrong with some disagreement and spirited discussion
 

Sandman

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
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359
-lostnumber

I agree with you that nothing is wrong with disagreement and I have to say that I aways enjoy your posts and feel like we are on the same page most of the time.

The examples I gave were only about my long term committed (well eventually haha) relationships where we were practically living together with the same girl. One lasted 2 years the other close to 1 year. Both ended because I moved somewhere else. And we did activities together including travel -I still remember our Amsterdam trip very fondly, it was an adventure!- and we fucked in public a lot such as in picnics lol but the thing is even though we mostly stayed in doors (I still went to parties and such just not with her) when we did activities together it was what we both wanted to do. If the OP doesn't want to do them, he shouldn't and if he wants to do that he should, as I explained in my first post.

Of course you can't use the same frames you use with your girlfriend with your boss or your friends. So different methods for different social interactions. And even though the frame is my way or highway in romantic relationships the way you tell that to the girl is never like that. I just explain my situation like this "okay, I understand your want but here is what I want and here are the reasons for that, but it is up to you to decide if you are okay with that or not". I don't like giving ultimatoms but the way I frame this is never seen as an ultimatom even though it actually is.

Planning and executing I usually leave it up to girl, because it is usually too much work and I try to make the big decisions myself while leaving the small decisions to her. But I have no problem if OP wants to plan things himself.

I agree that how we do things is a bit different but I think the fundemental difference is the mindset. You say it's good to compromise, this is a healthy model. I say, don't compromise on big things such as lifestyle changes but only compromise on small things where you can take it or leave it in such a case it is not really a compromise at all. It is possible to give a girl what she wants without compromising on what you want. And if it's not possible (rarely) you are just not a good fit.

It is true that unconventional relationships is harder to maintain because of family and friends of the girls but this is what makes her most happy. So she won't be able to explain why she does all this (like cleaning, cooking, doing laundy all the time, kinky things on bed etc.) but she will still do them and be happy. And you can always charm her friends and family (I have, it's easy) and when they see she is very happy they will give less resistance. These girls' previous boyfriends all bought flowers and shit but their relationship with me was better even though I never did any of them. I just showed my feelings in different ways (kissing, touching, looking deep into each others eyes etc.). If he wants to buy flowers sure, he should buy them but ONLY if he wants to that and it is unexpected.

Hope my stance is more clear now :)

PS: I still think that the underlying problem is respect and lost of dominance on OP's part, that's why she is giving him so many tests now. So being dominant is even more important in this case.
 

ResentMasculinity

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
63
a good way of explaining it, is that a man doesn't need to respect a woman in order to feel attracted to her, but a woman needs to respect a man in order to feel attracted to him.
 
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