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Frame Control: Where Online Dating Falls Short

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:34 pm
by BigS
Hey guys,

As a preface, I do not believe the content of this post actually constitutes an advanced technique (its about frame control, which is basic), however, the depth of responses I am looking for would come from more advanced practitioners of seduction.

Recently, I went on a first date with a girl from the dating app Hinge (great app). During our online texting, I inadvertently set the frame of being a funny, friendly guy, rather than sexy or mysterious. This was my first (if not only, mistake).

I met her on the date--we went to a classy bar with dim lighting and both ordered wine. However, it was readily apparent that she didn't put much work into her appearance, and lo and behold, we continued with this friendly, funny frame.

Some background: for the first several months of my seduction career I mostly relied on daygame and nightgame. I wanted to get past relying on online dating.

However, due to hearing about quick successes from other GC posters, and the sheer convenience of using online dating, I started to pick it up again.

For the past month I have been relying mostly on online dating, rather than meeting girls in person, and my numbers have gone up (approximately 1 lay per week).

However, my recent interaction with this girl (mentioned above), which did not end in a lay.... taught me a very important lesson--namely, why frame control is so important.

I realized that where I went wrong was setting the wrong frame early on, so inviting the girl back to my place and her having sex with me was incongruent with the previous frame I had set.

The Problem with Dating Apps

Earlier in my seduction career, I hadn't encountered this problem: I would meet girls while out, tell them I thought they were cute, and get their phone numbers/bring things to the bedroom.

Why was it now that I was relying on online dating had I regressed into setting at friendly/funny frame?

I believe that the answer lies within a handicap that online dating provides for guys who have difficulty setting frames. If two people match online, it is no longer the guy's responsibility to communicate that the first interaction will be sexual/romantic in nature.

Of course, the initial match on the app is a weak frame and as evidenced by my aforementioned blunder, I was able to override this frame with my own friendly frame, inadvertently.

However, I believe that not going out and making approaches in real life has allowed my skills in setting sexual frames to get rusty. This form of approach requires that the guy set the frame, or else the couple will be left wondering why they're interacting in the first place.

I realize that this post is really just me fleshing out an idea that has been thought through, but I would really appreciate some insight from more advanced practitioners re: times when they have developed strong skills in frame control, and times when those skills have weakened.

Thanks,

BigS

Re: Frame Control: Where Online Dating Falls Short

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:38 pm
by Sub-Zero
I believe that it's not good at all to only rely on one thing. Even if you get laid once a week off apps, wouldn't that give you more confidence and motivation for other forms of game?

Online to me is a great supplement to any type of game.

I had some questions to ask you how my man:

1. Did you pay for the wine for your date? How many drinks did you pay for?

2. Do you usually pay for dates or go half?

3. How often do you go for a date over straight to your place or hers?

4. Could you give me a quick glimpse of your process of what you usually text girls, How long you wait to ask for a date, how long until you get a date, etc.

Re: Frame Control: Where Online Dating Falls Short

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:54 pm
by BigS
sub-zero,

Youre absolutely right with regard to not relying on one form of game.

1-2. Im going to defer this question to someone more experienced. I dont have a real method for getting the girl to invest more by paying for drinks. What usually happens is that the girl offers to split the check and I let her. I find that this helps me get out of the "boyfriend/gentleman" zone. In terms of #, usually 1 drink each but sometimes 2 if i move her to another bar. My seduction performance takes a hit after 2 drinks....

3. I have actually never been able to pull off this type of date, which leads me to...

4. After the match, I will wait 1 day to send the first text. The first text is usually a cold read or a question/comment that is unique to her profile. And i usually start the text with "hey [name]!"

If she gives me a warm response showing investment, i will send 2-3 more texts to build rapport. For me, girls online are looking for several texts to build rapport before the ask.

If this goes well and we have a connection, she will either present an escalation window, will ask me out, or i will ask her out.

My ask has 2 parts:

1. i qualify her as to why we should go out
2. a command ("lets get a drink. whats your schedule look like?") or a suggestion ("we should get a drink. whats your schedule look like?")

Once she gives me her availability, ill tell her the location and time ive chosen. My preferred time is around 7pm, because if you go for the lay you can have her in bed by 10pm.

Hope this helps,

BigS

Re: Frame Control: Where Online Dating Falls Short

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:06 pm
by Sub-Zero
How does it work with splitting drinks? Do you charm them that much they just do it? That's cool they do that.

Never really went out drinking for a date.

Just asking to know how these situations play out because I don't pay for dates like that.

Why do you wait one day to text after you match ?

I don't have my own place atm, I'm hoping it won't be hard to pull to their place.

I'm trying to get to 1 lay a week as well.

Thanks man

Re: Frame Control: Where Online Dating Falls Short

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:57 am
by Fuck This
SZ - I've only had a few online dates. For the most part they were down for a quickie and go...I think all of them met for a same day-same night meetup.

One I missed off of OKC was a divorced mother who wanted to meet for coffee at 11 am while her kids were in school. She talked about her apartment a few blocks away she was living in until she moved into her new house in the next town. I TOTALLY should have asked her to show me her place and taken the afternoon off. Looking back I think she was looking to get laid. For me it was more of a check on whether I had sown enough oats. TBH when we talked about kids, she said "if we got together it would be like the Brady Bunch" and THAT was a boner killer for me. She really wanted to go on another date with me but I never reengaged.
But the lesson here is to listen for clues like when they talk about their living situation.

But YOU are completely responsible for making sure you have logistics for the pull. otherwise it's like going hunting without a cartridge loaded.

Re: Frame Control: Where Online Dating Falls Short

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 1:50 am
by Seppuku
Hey BigS,

Yeah I have seen a few of your LRs, good job man, you are on the right track!

As per my credentials to answer your questions on online game, I am mostly an online game guy, over 120 dates from online gaming in the last 5 years.

About setting frames
Now to answer your primary question, I don't see an inherent problem with setting frames in dating apps. On the contrary, I have found that dating apps help you set the right frame from the beginning. After all, it is a dating app. When you two meet, it is already taken for granted by the two of you, that this is about dating, and ultimately, mating. That's what I like about dating apps, the underlying frame is "romantic context" from the get-go.

In contrast, I have also met one woman from LinkedIn, where the underlying frame is "business context". It took me ages to change the frame to a romantic one.

Now, within the "romantic context" frame, there are tons of nuances, and if you want to be successful, you still need to navigate within these nuances (or "frames") and set the right one from the very beginning. The first and biggest one to set is "cool, non needy, non chasey". It is possible to establish this frame from the onset of conversation - the usual "texting tips" all aim at creating this frame.

It is also possible to establish a strongly sexual frame, even while still in the "before first meet" stage. See the below example, a girl I met in Tinder, who sent me a picture of herself with a cheeky smile:
Me: The question is now open
Her: What question?
Me: Do you have somewhere, some other cheeks? And if yes, are they chubby, too?
Her: Nope. I have two pairs of lips, not cheeks
Me: No need for lipstick on the other lips. They're pretty enough!
Me: I really need to introduce you to my friend Paul
Her: What about Paul? Is he chubby too?
Me: He's a lovable dick, if I may say so. No legs, but two rear wheels
Her: Hahaha... I love the wheels!
Me: He can drive slow and long. Or accelerate
Her: I love it when it accelerates
Me: Yeah, but only close to the finish line
Her: Definitely, and when your friend Mr Paul also starts digging into the hole
Me: Anyway he's a good guy, I'm sure you would like him. And I'll appreciate seeing all these lips!
etc...

I eventually met her and introduced her to my friend Paul LOL. So yes, it is possible to set a strong sexual tone too. HOWEVER these days I don't do that before I first meet her - because of the huge potential of triggering her ASD! I also LOST girls doing this kind of thing.

The best is some non needy, non chasey "I couldn't care less" conversation, avoid lengthy chats, and meet in real as early as possible. And yes, I agree with you, with online gaming you need to spend a minimum of time building rapport before asking for meet.

About the "funny witty guy" frame
This is a romance killer. Why would I know? Because I did kill many potential interactions with it. It is a bad habit I got from my pre-seduction years, that I have used mostly with waitresses and shops saleswomen. I would meet these girls and start to joke them (as in "funny witty guy"). And in years and years of doing that, I have never been able to tale one to bed from this method. I ultimately got many waitresses and sales girls - but from dating apps, where I would start on the right foot. Even today, with my better knowing and experience of seduction, I still fall back on bad habits and cant help to joke the waitresses and salesgirls. And they laugh and laugh. But no bed. Morality, the "funny witty guy" is a Jester - no more than a clown. She'll see a lot of entertainment value, that's it. See Chase's Sprezzatura concept.

You recognized it yourself as being a mistake, so no need to emphasize. That's what you did wrong. When you first meet her online, I would advocate this: you remain the uber-cool guy, not chasing her ass, no supplication implied in anyway, normal "build rapport" conversation, and set a meeting asap. Setting sexual frames is possible (see above), but it can fire back in triggering huge ASD.

And as you experienced here, it is very difficult to change an already established wrong frame, into a more useful one - if not impossible. The right frame need to be in place from the very beginning of ever meeting her!

About paying for dates
There has been a lot of emphasis put on that in GC. I do see the value of it, for the beginners (which is 90% of guys out there - those with no knowledge of seduction whatsoever), who think it's all about showing off how good a provider they would be, and compete in the BF category.

I do pay for all dates (unless she actually proposes paying her share), with no second thoughts. For me, it was a no-brainer, because, in the first place, I'm a man with a career, and were I am I usually earn 10+ times what she is earning. I also have some habits of going to some upscale places. Just personal preferences: I'm nearly 50 years old. I have done my fair share of "budgetary" outings in my younger days. Now I can afford better places and I like treating myself well. So it's not coming from a "want to impress her" perspective. But again, because of all these reasons, it would actually be unfair for me to ask her split the bill.

Yet despite paying for all dates, I have taken over 60 girls to my bed as a Lover. Because there are so many other ways you can rule yourself out of the relationship candidate. For instance, I do showcase my sexual market value on the date. What I call my "touch routine" is in fact the beginning of sexual escalation. Typically, within one or two hours, it looks like I physically possess her, with my arms all over her. People who see us would swear we've been together for a long time (although we actually met two hours ago). I will take her home on the first date (if the circumstances allow) or else on the second.

The biggest relationship-killer frame I have ever done was to tell her "I already have two kids. Don't see myself having more now". In her mind, she sees this as "a dead end". It actually happened with a girl I *really* liked, and with whom I wouldn't mind to have a relationship. LOL.

First dates straight to your home
I have done a few of these, and yes it can be fun. But I tend to avoid them now. Because meeting online is really a lottery game. She may look super cute in pictures, but be obese in reality. Or she could be a professional hooker - it's very common in the parts of the world where I operate! In fact, the dating apps are increasingly overrun with the professionals, it's becoming a pain. These girls will not tell you upfront - they're too smart for that. Instead, they wait until they're in your bedroom to tell you the "price". It's much harder to refuse when you're face to face. It is a very unpleasant situation.

Plus, all the girls you could have otherwise, but you lose to ASD.

So I always set a first date outside first. It's my screen.

Seppuku / Pierre