FR BackstrokeBabe

Marty · Jan 27, 2014

Do you ever have the irrational feeling that a particular location is a "bottleneck" for your seduction ability? I know other users have reported this; one forum member told me that he couldn't seem to open girls in Walmart, and in the past I had trouble with a specific Target store before conquering the mental block a few months ago.

There's a private university in my city, fairly prestigious as far as this region of the US goes, and located just outside the city limits. It wasn't until my third visit for seduction purposes that I managed to open a girl successfully on this campus! The first time, a girl's boyfriend (or guy pal?) stayed stubbornly put, instead of clearing the deck for me—very inconsiderately to my way of thinking!

On the second occasion, I missed a wide-open approach invitation and had only myself to blame.

As so often seems to be the case, this interaction took place just as I was about to give it up for a bad job. Exiting the combined Barnes & Noble/Starbucks around noon Sunday with my proud purchase of a 2014 calendar reduced to $2, I saw that a young girl was holding the door for me—quite unnecessarily, as I was at least twenty feet behind—and looking back at me and smiling as she did it.

Marty: You needn't have done that, but thank you all the same

BackstrokeBabe: Ahahahaha! (flirtatious laughter)

She wasn't going to hand it to me on a silver platter. She turned away and started walking FAST toward her car. She was blond, aged 21, 5'6", with a muscular build—a competitive swimmer, as it turned out. Not a beauty by any means, but attractive enough to cause ample sexual arousal. Her hair was tied in a high ponytail as she carried her late-morning latte.

I caught up as she opened her car door.

Marty: That's quite a cute little laugh you have there!

BackstrokeBabe: Oh ahahaha THANK you! (doing it again, presumably for my renewed delectation)

She was very talkative. She was studying a very specialized branch of the sciences and I performed a successful cold-read by asking about her plans for grad school. We had a couple things in common relating to her hometown in a distant state. She was not available for the rest of the day, but would apparently be delighted to have lunch with me on another occasion. After she punched her number into my phone, she verified that she had my name right, gave me the spelling of her own name (which was not so unusual that it merited such attention) and generally started expressing curiosity about me.

I bade her farewell, placed my hand on her shoulder (at this point she mistakenly thought I was going to hug her and started rearranging her drink and papers accordingly; but hugs are not in Marty's repertoire) and planted a nice firm kiss on her supple young cheek.

In recognition of her Generation Y status, instead of calling her I sent a text message as an icebreaker. That may have been a mistake, as she didn't respond, but I'll call her tomorrow or perhaps later in the week and all will become apparent

-Marty

Eternity · Jan 27, 2014

I suggest cutting the charm with these girls from your F.R's. Try a different style of game with them and you'll see your strenghts and weaknesses. By the sound of it you may need to be more dominant and agressive with these girls. Asshole/aloof game is something you should try to lay them quickly. I sense a vague feeling that you are still chasing these girls, thus why they play coy and hard to get. Only smile and say something charming when they say or do something that deserves this manner from you. But for the most part try being aloof distant and give her a bored look after your opener. She's the one worthy of your attention not the other way around. IDK if i recommended this to you already but a good conversation example of this come from Christian Mcqueen from ROK. Read his older articles on gaming sluts and you'll see what i mean.

Perhaps you should P.M Wesley from the boards, he had the same problem as you but is overcoming it steadily. Perhaps he can offer more tips...

Marty · Jan 28, 2014

Eternity:

I don't understand. This was not a "slut"—I don't like that term and anyway I don't judge anyone for her sexual choices. Can we keep it civil?

This was an intelligent young girl completing an undergrad in neuroscience and planning to do a doctorate.

-Marty

Eternity · Jan 28, 2014

McQueen calls HB's sluts for some reason but what i meant was to look at his articles for the core concepts of his style which is somewhat direct and to the point. That's whats valuable not his vocabulary. His conversation examples are solid but his mindset i understand not every will agree...

Marty · Jan 29, 2014

Okay, this is actually very helpful, Eternity, thank you.

I've just read a bunch of his stuff... and I have questions. Basically, back when I totally sucked at cold-approaching, I got confused why I was getting numbers from girls who then flaked off, and posted a request for help to the forum.

The actual reason was probably that I had no idea what I was doing and had performed fewer than 40 actual approaches by that date, but a couple of the most senior, respected and successful forum members nonetheless helped me out, and essentially they were like "Marty—you need to deep-dive"... which is what I've been doing before number-closing ever since.

All well and good, but reading The Art of The Approach: Part 3 I read about McQueen's escapade at Office Max (an inspired day-game venue, by the way) and noticed this very important observation:

Christian McQueen said:
Now I spoke 5 short ‘lines’ and walked away with her contact info. There is NO need to go on and on. In fact the more you take away the mystery of the interaction, the greater the odds of the girl growing bored of it.

Help me out here. It seems to contradict the existing advice I am working off of. What am I missing, please?

-Marty

luego · Jan 29, 2014

Think it's purely fundamentals?

If a girl is approached by a "gorgeous/mysterious/ideal/machismo man", he spends 30 seconds chatting her up and then rides off into the sunset with the hope and promise that he'll call her again - she'll be intrigued. There's no real way more chatting will make that better, only give you a chance to screw it up.

If she's approached by a more moderate man, with all-right fundamentals, they help him get in the door, but he's really looking to BUILD the attraction (using investment/deep diving/etc) in the current window when he's got her attention and she's still thrown off of auto-pilot. And without that investment, she'll be in more of a "take it or leave it" mood when you contact her.

Just my off the cuff thought.

Eternity · Jan 29, 2014

@Marty- The way i view it, McQueen's style is good for women you will probably won't ever see again consistantly. Thus why less is more. Of course tight fundamentals is key and vital here for this to work. That's why i said only be charming and flirty when she has done something to merit this. You do not have take anything away from your stlye just adapt it and rearrange the timing when it kicks in.

In addition when she is investing, flirting ect instadate should be asked ASAP. Forget the # close if you can just go for the next big step. But if its a no go or logistics suck yeah might as well since you never know. McQueen has another article on this that mirrors Chase advice on the matter; its scary how sometimes they think similarly. Also it's why i reecommended aloof/asshole game mixed with your style to see if it helps you lay these chicks. This type of game works well with early- mid twenties girls. I've done and tested it with some girls before and they eat it up.

Remember there are different ways to do things. Not just one style out there. It's the same advice I told Wesley on his journal entries. If you have the time of course deep diving is preffered but when you dont less is more.

@luego Totally agree, it's what I was going for.

Marty · Jan 30, 2014

Eternity:

You probably think I'm a pain in the ass but I'm still a bit confused:

Eternity said:
That's why i said only be charming and flirty when she has done something to merit this.

Does that mean that direct openers are ruled out? Thing is, I find opening direct the most comfortable way of establishing my intentions immediately, and girls seem to respond well too.

In the given instance, surely this chick giving me a flirty glance and girly-laugh was "deserving"—as you put it—of a charming response, no?

Thanks!
-Marty

Eternity · Jan 30, 2014

No. I meant let her invest more in the converstion before defaulting towards your style but in a subtle way not an overt compliment or gesture unless she is being the same way towards you. If she's barely receptive be the same way but not so cold that she'll auto reject you. Look at how Don Draper does this for a better example. Daniel Craig as James Bond does with women. This is what i mean by aloof game.

Hector Papi Castillo · Jan 30, 2014

Marty said:
Do you ever have the irrational feeling that a particular location is a "bottleneck" for your seduction ability? I know other users have reported this; one forum member told me that he couldn't seem to open girls in Walmart, and in the past I had trouble with a specific Target store before conquering the mental block a few months ago.

There's a private university in my city, fairly prestigious as far as this region of the US goes, and located just outside the city limits. It wasn't until my third visit for seduction purposes that I managed to open a girl successfully on this campus! The first time, a girl's boyfriend (or guy pal?) stayed stubbornly put, instead of clearing the deck for me—very inconsiderately to my way of thinking! On the second occasion, I missed a wide-open approach invitation and had only myself to blame.

As so often seems to be the case, this interaction took place just as I was about to give it up for a bad job. Exiting the combined Barnes & Noble/Starbucks around noon Sunday with my proud purchase of a 2014 calendar reduced to $2, I saw that a young girl was holding the door for me—quite unnecessarily, as I was at least twenty feet behind—and looking back at me and smiling as she did it.

Marty: You needn't have done that, but thank you all the same

BackstrokeBabe: Ahahahaha! (flirtatious laughter)

She wasn't going to hand it to me on a silver platter. She turned away and started walking FAST toward her car. She was blond, aged 21, 5'6", with a muscular build—a competitive swimmer, as it turned out. Not a beauty by any means, but attractive enough to cause ample sexual arousal. Her hair was tied in a high ponytail as she carried her late-morning latte.

I caught up as she opened her car door.

Marty: That's quite a cute little laugh you have there!

BackstrokeBabe: Oh ahahaha THANK you! (doing it again, presumably for my renewed delectation)

She was very talkative. She was studying a very specialized branch of the sciences and I performed a successful cold-read by asking about her plans for grad school. We had a couple things in common relating to her hometown in a distant state. She was not available for the rest of the day, but would apparently be delighted to have lunch with me on another occasion. After she punched her number into my phone, she verified that she had my name right, gave me the spelling of her own name (which was not so unusual that it merited such attention) and generally started expressing curiosity about me.

I bade her farewell, placed my hand on her shoulder (at this point she mistakenly thought I was going to hug her and started rearranging her drink and papers accordingly; but hugs are not in Marty's repertoire) and planted a nice firm kiss on her supple young cheek.

In recognition of her Generation Y status, instead of calling her I sent a text message as an icebreaker. That may have been a mistake, as she didn't respond, but I'll call her tomorrow or perhaps later in the week and all will become apparent

-Marty

Hey, Marty!

Alright, I think I want to echo something Eternity was trying to convey but it may have come off wrong. He said "cut down on the charm" and "be more dominant." You guys are working towards it with the "deep dive but maintain mystery by shortening the interaction."

How I'd put it is: don't treat them like princesses. You're a charming motherfucker and it's great, but I think it may convey boyfriend material to girls, which will prevent you from fully executing the tactics taught on this site, and you will sleep with girls much slower. Kisses on the cheek? I'd skip that. I use to end interactions by having girls kiss me on the cheek in a playful "alright, girl, do what I say" manner, but I stopped that as well. It had some success (dated a very cute blonde for a month who I used it on), but it's too friend-zoney. Be a will-o-wisp of sex and mystery.

You're a little older than some of us, so I know kicking habits will be more difficult than for some of us; you're also far more educated and seasoned than most women, and men here, so you'll have to also work on the "father figure" tone you might set with girls (e.g., kissing on the cheek). Your best bet is to start training with Gentleman Escalation. You have the experience, charisma, and intelligence for it. I go more for the Robert Downey Jr. and Damon Salvatore game, but I'm younger and edgy works better for me, but Gentleman Escalation seems to be the master class of seduction to me (e.g., James Bond). I have no doubt you could get there very quickly if you fix the bottlenecks that I've pointed out.

You're doing great and your class is extraordinary!

May you become powerful beyond measure,

Anatman

Eternity · Jan 30, 2014

@Anatman- Agree with the above. Kiss close on the cheek is a no no for seduction, something an aloof bad boy would never do. Need to work on dominance and shortening your interactions to convey the message of "i'm a high value guy who is talking to you, impress me". Also seeing women as sex objects should be something useful to your arsenal. Direct openers are good and is something you should not change, charming and flirty are good traits to have just have to use them at the right time thats all.

Overall, study the examples i have given you and test them out. You are better at cold approaching than me btw. It's something i lack along with physical escalation so dont be in despair as we all have weaknesses we have to work on.

Marty · Jan 30, 2014

Anatman:

I greatly appreciate your commentary, thank you!

Anatman said:
How I'd put it is: don't treat them like princesses.

Yeah, I know I'm guilty of that sometimes. It's difficult when that's how they come across! This one didn't really look like a princess, as I mentioned, but the girl I met today sure did. Anyway, I'm working on it.

Anatman said:
Kisses on the cheek? I'd skip that.

You know what? Coming from most other members of this forum, I'd be skeptical of that advice, but you've got the documented results (in spades) to back it up, Anatman, so I'm going to "suspend my disbelief" and change up my approach as per the article you linked.

I think you're gonna hate my next field report!

Haha! I hadn't yet read your guidance as of my last interaction. Actually, I've cheek-kissed two more girls this week since this one, but the one yesterday isn't really FR-worthy as it seemed like she had a serious boyfriend (though she gave me her cell number anyway and responded immediately to my icebreaker text).

Anatman said:
it's too friend-zoney.

Interesting. I hadn't really ever considered obtaining spontaneous face-to-face touch-compliance as "friend-zoney"—sure beats the buddy-buddy hugging nonsense that some guys here seem to go in for—but as I said I shall refrain from drawing conclusions either until I have trodden the path that you have kindly laid out for me (thank you).

Anatman said:
You're a charming motherfucker and it's great, but I think it may convey boyfriend material to girls

Thanks! But seriously, I understand where that may cause me to fall down.

Right, thanks, Anatman, here's to Gentleman Escalation—I haven't started reading it yet, and that's just the very first step, so it seems I have my work cut out for the next few weeks! Good deal =)

-Marty

Franco · Jan 31, 2014

Marty,

Kisses on the cheek? I'd skip that

Click to expand...

You know what? Coming from most other members of this forum, I'd be skeptical of that advice, but you've got the documented results (in spades) to back it up, Anatman, so I'm going to "suspend my disbelief" and change up my approach as per the article you linked.

I'm not sure what members on this forum have been encouraging you to kiss cheeks, but it's certainly something I never do. I am still very much a "bad boy" when I approach and talk to girls, but I'm a "sophisticated bad boy with a heart of gold." But they don't get to see that heart of gold until after they've slept with me...

Anyway, don't hesitate on cutting the cheek-kissing!

- Franco

Marty · Jan 31, 2014

Franco:

Franco said:
I'm not sure what members on this forum have been encouraging you to kiss cheeks, but it's certainly something I never do.

No one has been specifically encouraging it; I got it off of here. I figured that if it was good enough for social circle, in the absence of guidance to the contrary, it was good enough for cold approach too...

I plead "guilty as charged" to a Sorcerer's-Apprentice–style abuse of fine instruments for other than their intended purpose

-Marty

Franco · Jan 31, 2014

Marty,

No one has been specifically encouraging it; I got it off of here.

Of course, if you scroll down in that topic, you'll see my comment here... =)

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually not a huge fan of this opener. The reason being is that this opener tends to make you come across more as "charming" rather than "sexy," and charming adds more points to the "boyfriend" scoreboard than it does the "lover" scoreboard. In other words, it's almost more of a "reaction rather than results" type of situation.

Notice the "charming" versus "sexy" thing? I even mentioned that back in 2012!

But anyway, you get the point. I would suggest getting more sexual in any way possible that suits you.

- Franco

Marty · Jan 31, 2014

Franco:

Franco said:
Notice the "charming" versus "sexy" thing? I even mentioned that back in 2012!

But anyway, you get the point. I would suggest getting more sexual in any way possible that suits you.

So what would be a "sexual" way of gaining touch compliance? Grabbing her ass playfully? I saw my father do that with women a lot when I was a kid, to general hilarity all around, but this was in social situations, for example dinner parties at our house or visiting other families—there was existing social context. I'm not sure whether that would be appropriate to the "approach" portion of a cold approach—perhaps best left to the date?

Interested to hear your thoughts.

-Marty

Franco · Jan 31, 2014

Marty,

I'm not really a big fan of kino or sexual touch in my interactions, so I can't really give you much advice there. A lot of my sexual game is fundamentals and words because that is what I enjoy and what works best for me.

If sexual innuendos is something that you don't feel suits your style, then you're just going to have to experiment with different things. I can't really say whether one thing or another will work. I know guys on here have used touch to some success, but I feel like it's something that isn't really necessary if you're giving off the right vibe. In general, most girls end up touching me by the end of the interaction or date, which is the way I prefer it!

But in order for this to happen, you have to somehow convey that you're a sexual person. Try saying sexual things or touching girls in sexual ways and see where it gets you!

- Franco

Wick · Jan 31, 2014

Hello Marty

Looks like you and determined are having similar issues. I just posted this on his journal and think it it may help you too.

J Wick said:
Hey Determined,

After reading your last post I thought I might give you some feed back. It seems you have a pretty good process and women feel comfortable around you and that's good.

The thing is though, perhaps she feels too comfortable in a bad way. I skimmed through your journal and noticed that you often have trouble with sexual vibe.

You may be struggling to create this vibe so I want to help you with that! I think sexuality for women is physiological, and because of this quality ANYTHING can have a sexual undertone.

So right when you meet a girl this vibe should be sexual, if your goal is to have sex. This does screen out girls, especially done without finesse but that means only the girls you're into, who are into sex with you, will stick around!

I came across an interesting post by 60YearsofChallenge. He says that sexual tension is always there between a man and a woman by default. This is why pauses, body language, eye contact and social pressure help sexual vibe. Talking is what we do when we want to break that tension.

Here's a couple links on that
http://daygame.com/cafe/index.php?topic=1139.0
http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/topic72952.html

Take his and my word with a grain of salt though, because 60 can be a little out there and I'm actually not as experienced as you in day game.

FR BackstrokeBabe

Marty

Cro-Magnon Man

Eternity

Tool-Bearing Hominid

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Eternity

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luego

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Eternity

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Hector Papi Castillo

Tribal Elder

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Franco

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