Fox said:
I also disagree with you on recommending bacon, bacon is not a fantastic choice for protein (also has a fuck ton of salt), since it doesn't carry that much protein or calories in the first place. Better sources would be steak (like you said), chicken, and fish.
If that's true, then my bad. But yeah, steaks.
Fox said:
Also, paleo definitely works, but it doesn't work inherently because it's unique or has some sort of magical quality from cutting carbs. Carbs have a lot of calories. The easiest way to cut down on calories is to cut carbs. When it comes to weight (not muscle), it's calories in-calories out, no matter which diet you are on. Calculate the calories of someone who has lost on a "special diet," and you'll see they certainly weren't losing weight eating 3000 calories. I know you know this Hector, just stating that for others who might read this
And Paleo is also high in saturated fat and other crucial vitamins and nutrients, which benefits your mood and health. It's really that simple.
Ah yes yes, it seems we lost some info in communication. I just saw a few sentences and thought "there's way more here!" Looks like you hella know what you're talking about, my apologies for any seemingly-hostile over-explanations. I really should give people more credit, but I see lots of dumb shit written on this forum, so it's my first assumption. Plus, like i've said to some others on the forum, I'm a brash dude. Even when I'm being nice, it can come off...harsh?
My recommendation for paleo was more about the health aspect. The calorie-in-calorie-out is 100% true, I just want to see guys also eating healthy and not stuffing their faces with Hot Pockets at the end of the day because it has a ton of calories (but I guess if you have nothing else at home?)
Fox said:
A note though: You can gain muscle on paleo but it will be harder. Cutting out carbs cuts out one of the easiest ways to get calories in. It's noticeably more difficult, which is why paleo advocates are usually people who lost weight on the diet rather than gained muscle.
Ahh, yes, but Paleo isn't about cutting carbs. Not sure if that's your implication, but it's about cutting grains - pasta, bread, etc. It just so happens that these are carb-heavy foods. You can replace that carbage (words?) with MORE food. Just to make a random equation for illustration
Instead of eating a three slices of bread that are worth X grams of carbs/Y calories, you makeup for that deficit with MORE vegetables/fruit that would be Xgrams of carbs/Y calories. That way, your calorie count isn't jeopardized and, well, I don't think anyone can dispute why it's healthier.
But yeah, Paleo is about cutting, what they assert, as poisonous foods. But every food on earth is somewhat poisonous to you, especially if you eat too much of it (e.g., I'll start getting minor earaches if I eat spinach every day for 2-3 weeks, which i normally do. Once that happens, I know I'm getting overloaded on something in it, am having an allergic reaction, and just need to switch up my vegetable. same with meats).
Fox said:
And not trying to be rude, but you can't just recommend a diet that works for you without details, like how much weight you gained or lost and what your calorie count was. For example, you said it only took you 4 months of lifting to look good. I'd like to know, how much weight did you gain or lose? What weight did you start at? Those details matter when you're teaching a newbie at weightlifting because then they get unrealistic expectations like "I'll get fuckin swole in 4 months" when they're 125 lbs at 5'11 and it's actually going to take them a year to get noticeably muscular, but instead they eat too much for those 4 months, and just end up fat and disillusioned.
Haha, if you ever can be "rude" with anyone, it's me. Don't ever worry about my feelings, my man. I welcome brutish behavior.
And you have a point!! For my next gain-phase, I'll track my weight and diet information to give others an accurate demonstration!!
@Fight-body
By fight-body, I meant lean and compact. You're right, another vague word that needed definition. Got me twice now
The UFC/Bellator guys at my gym don't really looked too ripped, but they're tight - low body fat (but not too low for the energy reasons you mentioned), some slight definition, but they still have a "lean muscular" look. I suppose that's what I meant by fight-body!
But you're right, I mean look at Diaz vs Connor. Connor looked better and, from what it seems, was in better shape, but he missused his energy with all those wheel kicks.
I'm 5'9", 165, and I haven't done a body fat measurement in a while (are the pinch measurements considered archaic now? I wonder how much it is to get into one of those bubble chamber machines that perfectly measure it). My waist is 30", 38" chest, my thighs are 41" around (I can't wear slim fit pants; even though I have a 30 inch waist, my legs are pretty big from all those years of Tae Kwon Do).
Fox said:
But anyway, as an example for someone who the paleo diet might not work for, I'll put myself in. I require 3800 calories a day to gain just 2 lbs of muscle a month. Most of that 2lbs is muscle, as my fat did not increase for the year I bulked at this rate. I weighed myself every day first thing in the morning after pissing, and took the average of the week to see how much it change from last week (This is a more accurate way to measure since your weight fluctuates day to day). Anyways, if I were to do paleo, I'd personally be fucked. A 199 g steak only has 387 calories. A quarter pound of ground beef only has 376 calories. If I filled my diet with those two recommendations of yours, my protein would go through the roof yes, but I'd have to eat 10 quarter pound burgers (just the patty cuz paleo), which is about 3 per meal at 3 meals a day plus one extra at one of those meals. I certainly couldn't do it, although I'm sure there are some who could. And carbs aren't inherently bad, they're bad when they are abused. Carbs also help your workouts and energy levels, so cutting them out completely, at least for me, isn't ideal, but hey, to each their own, and different people react differently I guess.
White rice is my response.
http://paleoleap.com/about-rice/
http://www.ancestral-nutrition.com/why- ... rown-rice/
It doesn't have any nutritional value, really, but it has the pure carbs that you need. You get all your nutrients from the other foods (the meat, veggies, and fruits), and then to makeup for the caloric deficit you're concerned about given your body, just pack on a fuckton of white rice and boom, problem solved. And it's not really hurting you since the Paleo arguments against brown-rice/legumes/grains don't apply to white rice since it's a pure carbohydrate nuke.
1 cup of white rice, from my searches, seems to be 44.15g of carbs!
Fox said:
Also, another note, a lot of paleo people confuse their weight transformation. Not saying this is you Hector, again, just putting this here if somebody else reads this. Those paleo people say they gained muscle and lost fat. Just noting right here and now, that shit doesn't happen, at least not for an amount that can count. What happened was they lost weight and uncovered the muscle they already had. Look at Chris Pratt or Miles Teller's transformations. They started out fat, lost weight, uncovered muscle. Boom, they look fit. They think they gained muscle, but really they just lost fat and already had muscle.
Ahh, good point here! I did cut down on fat, so some of it was uncovered muscle, but I got thicker, less fatty, and remained the same weight for a while (which means my muscle was making up for the fat loss)
But also, my chest also got bigger, I couldn't fit into my pants anymore (waist was fine, but i literally ripped some pants because my legs were getting big as fuck), and I ripped a few shirts and their buttons. I had to stock my wardrobe with Express M1X shirts, since they're tight fitting but elastic. So yeah, smart to be aware of the confirmation bias with uncovering muscle, as you say, but I did gain muscle.
Fox said:
Also killerman, as an ectomorph you are not invincible to fat. It may be more difficult to put on for you, but push the calories over the limit, and you will get fat. Just keep that in mind man, wouldn't want you to have to spend even more time losing fat you've gained after a bulk.
This is good, too!
And sleep, sleep, sleep. I sleep 10-12 hours a day. I don't have a 9-5 so it's easier for me, but if i had to choose between a 9-5 and sleep, I'd choose sleep everytime.
Fox said:
Long rant, but man, I can't tell you how many guys ask and say to me and each other shit like "Should I add more broccoli to my diet to gain muscle?" or "A fitness model in this magazine said you should only eat squid to gain muscle. Is that true? No wonder I don't have the body of my dreams." I just hope I communicated my thoughts clearly, let me know if it was delivered poorly or something.
Oh no worries, buddy, like i said, I'd rather have someone butt heads against me, so long as they're genuine, because it
1. Exposes weaknesses in my arguments that my ego has glossed over
2. Gives me new knowledge; I've seen what happens when you're popular/liked enough that everyone just agrees with what you say and it's really detrimental to your growth and zest of life. Not sure if it was Lincoln who did it, but I heard that some president filled his cabinet with people diamterically opposed to his views so that he could always keep his policies/ideas sharp
3. It's fun. Who the fuck wants everyone to agree with him all the time? Not me. I get nothing from someone jerking me off; I'd rather someone come at me with a knife
You obviously know what you're talking about and have taught me a few things. Also, you film MMA? I'd LOVE to hear more about that if you wanna PM me.
Good talk, brother.
Hector
