What is Wisdom?: A stream of psuedo-consciousness by me

Regal Tiger

Cro-Magnon Man
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I'm reading book reviews right now about marriage basically being a raw deal for men, failing to come up with what I want to write... So this may be a little.... incoherent.... my bad.

QUICK EDIT: though if you want to skip past the crazy talk down below to my recap, that'll probably help to find my basic questions. Though I want to keep the crazy talk because I find it interesting to theorize about weird stuff like this. END EDIT


The basic question is; what is wisdom? How do you obtain it? How should you use it?

A Google search or two seems to be synonymous with religion and Christianity. While I, personally, believe that wisdom can come from anywhere I've noticed my personal bias against even clicking on most of these links.... really need to get over that.



But I want to understand. I want to understand how the world works, not just what my own growing discontent and bitterness is leading me to. I'm sure a lot of it is correct, otherwise I wouldn't believe it. But the other part of me believes there has to be something greater. Something greater than simply adapting to the world and living on your terms as best you can, because it's lonely at the top. That doesn't sound fulfilling, but neither does what I'm about to go into sound like it would bring personal happiness either.

One of my greater [maybe] goals in life, that I keep swinging back and forth from even going after, is to basically dismantle the education system as it is now and build something greater. Something that will actually serve people well into their lives.

Part of me says 'Do it for society! Be a hero!'. But the other part of me basically just says 'let the world burn'.
The benefits of this would be to create and spread more useful knowledge out into the world, which is something that genuinely excites me. But I wouldn't stop there. I would basically use this school to find the people that have in interest in politics. Then use them to basically take over different political arenas and place someone in the presidency to change everything unopposed, in a way that I envision. I see this fictional dream as a great boon to humanity. But is that real wisdom or a childish selfishness to make the world into something I believe it should be? Does it even matter? Or if it's good or bad decided only by success or failure in the eyes of history?

My cousin said that this idea was something very similar to Hitler... I see it as different but I can certainly understand the argument there.

Another of my beliefs is that politicians are disgusting liars who only serve themselves and would poison the public as soon as it benefited them. But they're the only ones with any real power to change anything. But they have helped corral citizens into a state of learned helplessness that has lead to a fairly stable peace. Would it really be right or wrong to try and change that? Forget the fact that being able to do something like that is likely only a fantasy; say that I could, is it right? Changing a system that has been put into place like that would likely destroy this peace we all enjoy now and cause lots of death and widespread destruction. But if it succeeded, I think it would benefit humanity in the long run. So does that belief alone justify even attempting this challenge? I want to understand how to do something like this and what would be the outcome. That's what I'm after, I suppose. Is just a higher level of understanding.

Psychological Egoism leads me to believe that I have no obligation to the world, only to myself. But that will only lead to more anger at how life is and a growing discontent with how I want life to be. As a powerful man, couldn't I change how life is?



Things like this is what makes me think, what is wisdom? How do I know what to do in life, how to understand what will happen through time as it flows by? Chase talks a lot about history and learning that as time flows on, it goes in the form of a pendulum, simply swinging from side to side for all of eternity. If I were to learn more about that pendulum, wouldn't it be possible to see a way to change it? Where should I start in learning about history? To learn how the world works beyond my own bias' and interpret it as it is rather than simply seeing what I believe to be there, or want to be.



Where do I start, what path should I take? How do I understand how the world works? How human beings work?

I've spent a great deal of energy and hours into learning about how the individual works, and even learned a little bit in how to manipulate that for my benefit. But I can't help but see myself as evil because of it and this possible goal of mine.

I believe in Psychological Egoism because human beings are nothing more than incredibly intelligent animals. An animals first priority is in survival of its genes, therefore reproduction. But is that all there is to it? There has to be more...

I've become adept at getting sex, and therefore serving my base biological need of reproduction. But I'm only content with that, not really happy. Would this delusion of changing the world make me happy? Would something else? How do I find out? I need to understand...



For anyone that follows Psychological Typing, it would help to know that I'm an:
ENTP type 5w4, 3w2, 9w8

Though I'm sure the type 5 and 3 comes out very strong in my little delusion of grandeur I wrote about up top. :p




So to recap my questions after re-reading it and finally being able to put it into short little sentences and questions:

1) What is wisdom and how do I get it?
2) How do I achieve a higher level of understanding in how the world works?
3) What makes a person happy, rather than just partially content?
4) When studying history, where should you start?
5) What makes for a fulfilling life?
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
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Interesting question. I also like the hint about God from Dexter, it's good conclusion. IMO everybody has to come to conclusion about God on his own, people shouldn't be just shoved in church and told to believe.


Wise people understand many different things on multiple levels, they are able to see one thing from multiple points of view and based on that they form opinions or decisions. It's a lifelong process, it requires lots of personal experience, and IMO the person usually goes through multiple stages of realization in his/her life. There are also differences in being smart and wise, there are lots of very smart people but not so many of them are really wise...

Just a simple example, say there is a young and ambitious guy who just started college. At first he is very enthusiastic in leaning different skills, he meets lots of new people, new girls, he wants to be rich and successful, he wants to do things the right way as he was thought in church...

He is very smart, he excels in science, yet he has no social skills and he is shy. So as the time goes he is adapting new skills through interaction with others, he learns psychology, he learns from GC how to get laid, and after some time he is able to satisfy his desire to be with great girl. Most of his free time he spends on developing social skills and approaching girls, he works on those skills till he masters them...

Eventually he gets married witch church going and honest girl, virgin, but now there are other problems, economy is bad and they are struggling financially. Because he is smart and ambitious he decides to open some business. After multiple attempts and couple of years trying, he finally succeeds, he is able to manage good company from financial stand point of view, and then he becomes obsessed with money and power.

He becomes a great businessman with nice tie, polished shoes, new $100K Mercedes and $3 Mil house. His wife just loves him, perhaps for his great personality. However, next year a new socialist president raises taxes to unbearable level, in addition to already raised minimal wage of $15 per hour. He gets depressed as he either has to bankrupt his business or fire several people, he has no other choice. So who does he fire? He fires 10 people who are least productive, that's just a smart decision from business point of view. These people are just numbers and he doesn't really know any of them personally.

However, two years later he meets one of the fired workers. The worker now stands on the street, disheveled and half drunk, begging for money. Socialist president, despite all the great promises and good sounding philosophy of free stuff, failed to help all those poor people, as a matter of fact he produced millions more of them. So he swallows his pride and invites this drunk guy for a lunch, he wants to know what happened, he wants to know why can't he take care of himself in better way, he wants to hear his life story...

He learns that the guy who he fired also has family, three little kids. He has medical condition which makes him less productive at work, and he was unable to secure a new job despite hundreds of applications and interviews. After he lost his job his wife divorced him, he didn't know what to do so he started to drink and beg for money on the streets...

So he also invites for lunch the other people he fired before, and he learns that most of them can't get a job, or they have part time jobs for minimal wage, and all of them struggle to pay basic bills... That's the socialist way he realizes, great philosophy but disaster in real life...

So now he realizes that there is much more to the business he has, it is just not the productivity of workers, it is also their lives and families he has to consider, it is overall economy that should be considered before he fires another person... Maybe now he realizes that he could have easily sold his Mercedes and buy smaller house in stead of firing 10 people... He realizes that if he wasn't such a greedy capitalist he could have helped at least 10 people plus their families to have much better life...

He is now 35 and still full of ambitions, so he studies economy, trade, politics... He makes new connections, he still want to improve and fix this world, he wants to employ not just those 10 poor people he fired, but also the other 96 millions who are out of job in USA... So he works very hard on helping people, he becomes people's advocate, he becomes great politician, he opens big charities, he spreads good words around...

The time just doesn't stop, now he is 45 and he sees the world much differently than he was in college. He sees lots of crap, lots of BS, corruption, lies, superficial life... Himself he took some money he shouldn't, himself he constructed some lies to help his friends, himself he became part of corrupted world... His wife cheated on him despite him being great and rich guy who diligently memorized GC website in his youth, but that was after he cheated on her first with couple of young girls skilled in sex, as he was quite bored with his married life...

Now he doesn't even know whether he is still married, or not? They just live together like roommates, just out of convenience and comfort, but is it still the great life he once dreamt about?

He is still very smart yet very confused about this world, he's sort of lost... he is still have lots of energy but now he wonders what's the whole point of this life, if any? What to do, where to go, what to believe, what else to achieve - and what for?

So he turns into religion, he decides to take a deeper look into religious wisdom. He is not satisfied with one hour on Sunday, he starts reading different religious texts full time, he start exploring different religious believes, he learns wisdom of other people who lived long time before him... Now he is 60, and perhaps he gives up on his business, he gives up on politics, and he becomes great religious leader... Or just retires fully from this life, leaves to live peacefully and alone somewhere in deep woods, adopting life of a happy hermit, undisturbed by vanity this world...


So when we look back at this guy's life we see that he went through lots of different levels in his life, multiple stages, he has understanding of multiple levels of the same thing called Life... He was smart, ruthless and enthusiastic in achieving his goals, he was a cold businessman and witty politician, yet he also became humble, thoughtful and carrying much about different people as he discovered that he has a heart and not everything in life is money... He spent years on developing honesty, yet he also cheated, he also became corrupted in moments of human weakness... He had his ups and downs in life, he knows that life is not only this great and perfect dream that he imagined in his teens... He adopted life as a rich and famous and social man in multimillion dollar house, but he also learned to live just on his own, far away from people in woods... He realized that there are lots of superficial things in life, lots of unfair judgements towards people we don't even know, but also tremendous depths of what is called human life...


Keep seeking brother, and you shall find...
 

Regal Tiger

Cro-Magnon Man
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It's late, so right now I'm just going to say thank you for replying. They'll give me something to think about over the next few days before I respond properly :)
 

Regal Tiger

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DrexelScott said:
I think you are getting close to breaking through to the other side, though I must caution you that you will hit what appears to be complete spiritual and emotional rock-bottom before it happens. It's a blessing in disguise, embrace it and look for the lesson and the silver lining. Freedom is on the other side of that, and since it is very hard for red-pill people not to get miserable and bitter and misanthropic (speaking from YEARS of experience here), the real answer you seek is God.

I'm not much on God at all. I, personally, believe that somethings had to kick everything off and that's what God is. Whether that God was ever sentient or even still alive, I don't really think about because I'll never know. To be honest, I've always looked at religion and God as a crutch that people use. How do you see God?

I've never met a happy atheist, though I don't necessarily mean seeking God through a particular religion. Whatever your conception of God, or a First Cause or Prima Materia as the alchemists described it, seek communion and understanding with that conception. There are few things more liberating in life than ridding oneself of the shackles of thinking you're the top of the food chain, and the humility comes with a lot of wisdom and insight as well...

The food chain thing I've found to be true. Though I wouldn't necessarily put any God on top of the food chain, either. But it all depends on the situation about which animal is on top or not.

Can't say I've found any freedom in that thought though. Just more of a.... okay that makes sense feeling to me...

Again, care to elaborate?

But the true answer to "how do I attain wisdom?" is that it's a progressive process which unfolds within you as you perfect your own soul and your own integrity. Knock, and the door shall be opened--but only walk through if you've prepared for it through the development of your own character.

There is an ocean of the knowledge you seek waiting to find you, and your higher levels of understanding will also unfold along a process which, arguably, does not end at the death of your physical body but is rather recycled in incarnation, over and over in different forms, perfecting itself by correcting its errors along the way. The nice thing about having a rational mind is that you can spur up the process of your own evolution by deliberately seeking, finding, and correcting the things you've come to this planet to learn :)


I need to find those oceans of knowledge. That's what I'm trying to find.
 

Regal Tiger

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Drck said:
Interesting question. I also like the hint about God from Dexter, it's good conclusion. IMO everybody has to come to conclusion about God on his own, people shouldn't be just shoved in church and told to believe.

Definitely!


Wise people understand many different things on multiple levels, they are able to see one thing from multiple points of view and based on that they form opinions or decisions. It's a lifelong process, it requires lots of personal experience, and IMO the person usually goes through multiple stages of realization in his/her life. There are also differences in being smart and wise, there are lots of very smart people but not so many of them are really wise...

So you believe that being wise is simply attained through experience? I suppose it makes sense, but how do I get that experience through other people/sources?

Like, reading GirlsChase has definitely leveled me up far more and far faster than I could have ever hoped to attain on my own. But is that wisdom? Probably not.... but from my own experiences, that creates wisdom? Like a date I went on today, I actually guessed a lot about her before even getting her into real life (Tinder to real life). I acted fast about getting the date, but assumed that it'd be easy to get her into bed. Sadly she was only looking for validation and not in the bedroom. It may happen later but I doubt it. Going off of experience, the first part of what I already knew about her would be wisdom because it just popped into my head and I fully understood most of it before her telling me any of it, before even meeting her? Though missed the after date part....

Just a simple example, say there is a young and ambitious guy who just started college. At first he is very enthusiastic in leaning different skills, he meets lots of new people, new girls, he wants to be rich and successful, he wants to do things the right way as he was thought in church...

He is very smart, he excels in science, yet he has no social skills and he is shy. So as the time goes he is adapting new skills through interaction with others, he learns psychology, he learns from GC how to get laid, and after some time he is able to satisfy his desire to be with great girl. Most of his free time he spends on developing social skills and approaching girls, he works on those skills till he masters them...

Eventually he gets married witch church going and honest girl, virgin, but now there are other problems, economy is bad and they are struggling financially. Because he is smart and ambitious he decides to open some business. After multiple attempts and couple of years trying, he finally succeeds, he is able to manage good company from financial stand point of view, and then he becomes obsessed with money and power.

He becomes a great businessman with nice tie, polished shoes, new $100K Mercedes and $3 Mil house. His wife just loves him, perhaps for his great personality. However, next year a new socialist president raises taxes to unbearable level, in addition to already raised minimal wage of $15 per hour. He gets depressed as he either has to bankrupt his business or fire several people, he has no other choice. So who does he fire? He fires 10 people who are least productive, that's just a smart decision from business point of view. These people are just numbers and he doesn't really know any of them personally.

However, two years later he meets one of the fired workers. The worker now stands on the street, disheveled and half drunk, begging for money. Socialist president, despite all the great promises and good sounding philosophy of free stuff, failed to help all those poor people, as a matter of fact he produced millions more of them. So he swallows his pride and invites this drunk guy for a lunch, he wants to know what happened, he wants to know why can't he take care of himself in better way, he wants to hear his life story...

He learns that the guy who he fired also has family, three little kids. He has medical condition which makes him less productive at work, and he was unable to secure a new job despite hundreds of applications and interviews. After he lost his job his wife divorced him, he didn't know what to do so he started to drink and beg for money on the streets...

So he also invites for lunch the other people he fired before, and he learns that most of them can't get a job, or they have part time jobs for minimal wage, and all of them struggle to pay basic bills... That's the socialist way he realizes, great philosophy but disaster in real life...

So now he realizes that there is much more to the business he has, it is just not the productivity of workers, it is also their lives and families he has to consider, it is overall economy that should be considered before he fires another person... Maybe now he realizes that he could have easily sold his Mercedes and buy smaller house in stead of firing 10 people... He realizes that if he wasn't such a greedy capitalist he could have helped at least 10 people plus their families to have much better life...

He is now 35 and still full of ambitions, so he studies economy, trade, politics... He makes new connections, he still want to improve and fix this world, he wants to employ not just those 10 poor people he fired, but also the other 96 millions who are out of job in USA... So he works very hard on helping people, he becomes people's advocate, he becomes great politician, he opens big charities, he spreads good words around...

The time just doesn't stop, now he is 45 and he sees the world much differently than he was in college. He sees lots of crap, lots of BS, corruption, lies, superficial life... Himself he took some money he shouldn't, himself he constructed some lies to help his friends, himself he became part of corrupted world... His wife cheated on him despite him being great and rich guy who diligently memorized GC website in his youth, but that was after he cheated on her first with couple of young girls skilled in sex, as he was quite bored with his married life...

Now he doesn't even know whether he is still married, or not? They just live together like roommates, just out of convenience and comfort, but is it still the great life he once dreamt about?

He is still very smart yet very confused about this world, he's sort of lost... he is still have lots of energy but now he wonders what's the whole point of this life, if any? What to do, where to go, what to believe, what else to achieve - and what for?

So he turns into religion, he decides to take a deeper look into religious wisdom. He is not satisfied with one hour on Sunday, he starts reading different religious texts full time, he start exploring different religious believes, he learns wisdom of other people who lived long time before him... Now he is 60, and perhaps he gives up on his business, he gives up on politics, and he becomes great religious leader... Or just retires fully from this life, leaves to live peacefully and alone somewhere in deep woods, adopting life of a happy hermit, undisturbed by vanity this world...


So when we look back at this guy's life we see that he went through lots of different levels in his life, multiple stages, he has understanding of multiple levels of the same thing called Life... He was smart, ruthless and enthusiastic in achieving his goals, he was a cold businessman and witty politician, yet he also became humble, thoughtful and carrying much about different people as he discovered that he has a heart and not everything in life is money... He spent years on developing honesty, yet he also cheated, he also became corrupted in moments of human weakness... He had his ups and downs in life, he knows that life is not only this great and perfect dream that he imagined in his teens... He adopted life as a rich and famous and social man in multimillion dollar house, but he also learned to live just on his own, far away from people in woods... He realized that there are lots of superficial things in life, lots of unfair judgements towards people we don't even know, but also tremendous depths of what is called human life...


Keep seeking brother, and you shall find...

So what I'm taking from this story is to try and pull in as much experience from the world and from different sources as possible?
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
1,488
"So you believe that being wise is simply attained through experience? I suppose it makes sense, but how do I get that experience through other people/sources?"

Experience as well as sort of independent thinking, perhaps sort of putting things into both (or even more) extremes. For example, if you want to study life you can see it from many different perspectives:

- Biology, physics, science in general
- History, human evolution, evolution in general
- Psychology
- Philosophy
- also spirituality, e.g. not only reading about it but practicing it

When you take only each subject individually it will give you good knowledge. For example, you can become great biologist if you spent the whole lifetime only studying biology. But once you start adding to it different subjects - physics, psychology, spirituality, ... - your whole understanding of life will change as well, you will integrate knowledge from different field... Its the integration of different knowledge as well as personal experience that gives you more wisdom...

When you start integrating different knowledge, you'll realize that 1 + 1 is not always 2. It can be 3, 4, 5 and higher, in a sense that if you take biology as 1, philosophy as 1, other science as 1 and add them all together, the result of your understanding is not exactly 3. It could be much higher than 3, much more than if you studied only individual subjects...

We live in great times, greatest times of humankind... We have simple access to lots of wisdom - books, online books, we can even get them for free... Many philosophers, ancient wise men, many scientific discoveries, religious leaders... what one great mind worked very hard for his whole life, we can easily read summarized in one or two of his books... What one worked hard for 10 years, you can read in couple of pages... We can read all the work and discoveries of great philosophers or scientists in just several books... all easily accessible and downloadable in couple of clicks... There is so much wisdom around, we live in ocean of wisdom, it is impossible to even read and understand so much wisdom we humans accumulated, even if one had one thousands years to live he wouldn't be able to comprehend all the wisdom...

--------------------------------


Similarly with seduction. GC is great, other seduction or PUA are also great, there is lots of knowledge included. However from broader perspective it is not enough as you start realizing that seduction is just one of the skills you can obtain in life, it is actually just part of your life. From certain perspective, if you 'fix' your life you will become automatically attractive person, therefore you won't even need any seduction skills... From certain perspective, seduction can even become an obstacle because it is a lot of redundant work...

See, when you discover seduction or PUA by googling it, all the material is overwhelming. There is five hundred and fifty thousands articles just to read through, and there is ten thousands things in seduction to master, which make it seems that seduction very difficult to achieve. The impression is that you have to be sort of a master before you start sleeping with girls...

But what is reality? Reality is much simpler. In reality, there is already natural attraction between males and females, you as a male don't really need to "create" any attraction because it is already there by you being male and she being female. In reality, seduction happens everywhere you look, it happens in animal kingdom every single second - and these animals don't even speak, they can't read and write, they never heard about seduction, they have no clue about seduction - yet they multiply and multiply... How is that possible? How can they seduce without having clue about seduction?

For us humans (meaning most males), seduction is just imitation of successful guys. We observe how successful guys act, what they say and do with girls, how the girls behave around them, then we write it down, create different theories, find out what works and what not, and then we try to learn it... It was and is lots of work, lots of great guys contributed to overall knowledge, and we were able to finally discover how successful guys do it. Now we can fairly easily learn seduction skills and sort of imitate those successful guys, every guy can do it today...

But there is another way. Why imitate success - if you can be successful? Why not develop characteristic that will naturally increase desire of many females for you? Why not let females desiring you in stead of chasing them in one way or another? So it is little bit different approach than you get from seduction web sites, you simply drop all the seduction - and focus on your life...

But how to 'fix' your life? Does it mean that my life is broken if it needs to be fixed? Well, it is not exactly broken, it just doesn't flow in the right direction. There are couple things that need to be corrected in order to increase desire of females for you. It is more of generalization, but in simple words, for example:

Successful guy is busy by working on building success. Duh. He is busy thus he doesn't have time to respond to each female's text right away, but he replies maybe in 2-3 hours, maybe days. He already has a business meeting today and tomorrow, so he has to postpone his date. He also goes to fitness to keep fit because he wants to stay healthy. He needs to wear decent clothes to work because he respects others and have high self esteem. He cares about his life, he likes his life and things he do, he cares about his work, about people he interacts with...

He is motivated, he wants to be financially independent, he wants to have lots of friends, but at the same time he understands he needs to be assertive as there is lots of competition out there. He also smiles at people, he makes them feel good about themselves, but he is not afraid to use elbows to get what he wants. He likes people, he wishes them well, and he looks with interest in their eyes. Deeply he looks, as he is amazed by all the people he meets. He doesn't have time to deal with every single detail in his life, he has to prioritize, make decisions, take responsibilities, he needs to move forward... He meets many people every day, many females, so he is not really impressed by the first female he talks to no matter how hot she is, he can easily move forward and talk to different females...

He clicks with some much better, and with others not at all... Do females like guys like this? Of course they do, females are not stupid, they like guys who are winners in life, guys who are independent and assertive... He is hurt by break up because he loved her, but at the same time he knows that he can move forward because he has lots of other females around...


But what a guy who learns seduction discovers by observing this successful guy? He discovers that in order to be attractive he needs to look busy. So he sits home, watches tv, puts a timer on, and replies to that girl in 2-3 days, so he looks busy and doesn't look needy. He discovers that he needs to wear better clothes to be more attractive, so he goes out and spends all afternoon on choosing the most attractive clothes he can find. All weekend he spends on shopping and returning things that don't work for him. He discovers that some watches look more attractive to females than others, and that they also like certain haircut better than others. So after three years of trying he finally discovers which haircut fits him the best. He discovers that if he takes more space he looks more dominant and assertive, so he always takes more and more space, pushing every normal person away....

He then start practicing dominant look for couple of years, and he needs to practice more because it still doesn't look natural, some people actually freak out when he looks dominantly at them... He also goes to fitness, not really to lift weights but rather create more theories how to approach girls in fitness, perhaps which peacocking works better and which not at all... He discovers that he cannot approach the girl he really wants directly, so creates theories that he should talk to every other female around except her, just to make her more attracted to him. If she is not attracted to him, even after he didn't approach her, she is a bitch then...

He creates ten thousand theories how to click with every single female he meets, and because none of these theories works he will have to discover another ten thousand useless theories about how to click with ten thousands of different people...

He falls in love easily with the first girl that smiles at him, and he knows he will be in misery for the next 5 years if she rejects him, and that freaks him out so badly that he can't even find guts to approach her. He then takes another 5 years analyzing why is he such a loser, and because he can never find any reasonable answer he analyzes even more... Another 5 years he analyzes, the whole life he analyzes why is he such as loser...


See the difference? Perhaps result are the same, she gets text from both of them in 3 days. She perceives both of them as successful guys with girls. But the difference is that one of them is really busy, he is really more independent, he is truly successful - while the other one is only faking it, he became a master in imitating successful guys; his objection is not to be successful in life, his objection is just to sleep with as many females as possible, with the least effort possible...


In reality it is not of course just black and white, there are many good things on seduction that any guy would benefit from, and not every successful guy is really successful with girls, but the whole point is that every man should be more focus on developing his life in stead of spending all the time on seduction. Seduction should be just somewhere on periphery, perhaps less than 10% of the whole effort... My impression here is that many guys are spending 90+% on seduction, while they are neglecting the rest of their life...
 
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