Men on Strike…

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Dec 18, 2013
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211
Happy Halloween gents!

I've recently come across and am about half-way through reading this relatively new book (first published I believe in 2012):

Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters

Here I am sitting in a full tapas bar, decked out in my sleeveless Thor costume (with cute girls approaching me—can't help being in a an anti-social rut right now—ironically, that seems to boost attractiveness when you do it with enough conviction), and all I can do is keep reading this book… it feels like a perfect description of everything I've felt about women and marriage that has seemed 'off' to me for years—probably the #1 reason that drew me to GC and learning seduction.

I am very curious what you gentlemen the think.

-M
 

Lotus

Modern Human
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Mischief,

I haven't read this book yet but it seems very interesting and looks like it runs parallel to what is discussed in King, Warrior, Magician, Lover, which I just finished last night.

I believe you read it as well.

The dependency of men is definitely pretty visible now that my eyes have been opened but I never considered the impact of 93% of HR reps being female. After seeing this post I checked it out a little and I'm definitely going to read it.

Imagine if this was written by a male, would it ever have even gotten a second glance in today's society.

I'm curious does she go into suggested solutions later in the book or is it just for awareness raising?

Thanks for the post,

-Lotus
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Mischief,

Actually this is not just happening in America. It is happening across the globe. Europe but especially Japan and Singapore comes to mind. While it is true that statistics reports marriage, but the divorce rates are reasonably high. It is worth noting that while Asia likes to lie to the world that they are conservative, they are in fact bullshit a lot more than Americans. IT is good to realize that 'Asians are conservatives' is similar to 'I never done this before' uttered by women. There is cheating and private investigators, all by chode men and insecure women. Funny how things become shitty.

On a smaller scale, people are hesitant to talk about certain things. Sensitive stuff like LGBT in Singapore recently, is a transitional period for Asia, or in Singapore at least. The world is actually a fuck place but it is also a nice place.

I was emailing to Chase the other day and he noted to me about how little we know about what is going on, on the ground, until we dabble on it. It is like a constant grind. As example, Just because you know that girls walk here at 10am for this month doesn't necessarily mean that girls will walk here at 10am the next month.

Statistics do lie.

Floyd Mayweather is great because his stats are great. Another example: Bruce Lee is great but his presentation is flawed but he gets the message out. His presentation is movies. So it is true that he is just a movie actor as per internet commenters. They are noting his presentation. I realize you can use this in business. Chase's Girlschase website actually move away from content recently, at least on the advertising. If you notice Chase's banner, it is something that what most guys are catching on, 'this should be banned'.


Zac
 

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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211
Hey Lotus–

I'm glad this topic resonates with you too. I'm afraid I keep coming off as a whiny downer each time I come to this forum—need to stop that, and I promise to try.

I am about 60% through King, Warrior, Magician, Lover. That is an amazing read so far, and the only reason I have yet to finish after so many months is because it seems every chapter is a world of paradigm shift for me to absorb—great stuff, but it's such mind hack material that I need the time to digest it. I'll get there.

These days when I go out and practice seduction, I can't help but feel that some part of me is only doing it because of the heightened feminist climate that has virtually destroyed male faith in family: do I really want to sleep with so many girls for pleasure, or is my player behavior simply the result of cynicism? Maybe some of you have also wondered about this and might chime in with your thoughts.

The author Helen Smith does get to proposing solutions by the second half of the book (to which I have just begun reading). She suggests men garner the courage to be vocal. The funny thing is, it is really not in a man's nature to complain openly. For that matter, should any of us really even bother to care about rescuing society anyway? Perhaps the societal emasculation of men is just another aspect of natural selection culling the weak. Let society raze itself to ashes if it wants to—not my problem—just need to learn whatever it takes to thrive in whatever climate we end up in.

I think I would rather focus on dealing with things as they are and learn to adapt myself to, as Chase states, "whatever the world throws at me."

Personally, I have three goals: building myself financially, getting to the zen player mindset, and lastly, enjoying the show of worldly life, where ever it leads… does this make me a bad person?

-M

P.S. Apologies in advance if this read like another downer post.
 

Lotus

Modern Human
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Nahh you have nothing to worry about you're just very in-touch with your inner lover ;)

do I really want to sleep with so many girls for pleasure, or is my player behavior simply the result of cynicism? Maybe some of you have also wondered about this and might chime in with your thoughts.

I have, but it's a little different for me and I wonder from the other side(at least for now). By this I mean, I have always looked to develop relationships. Even with my new found knowledge it was always to build something meaningful for myself. I am confident in my ability to meet new women and sleep with them, but I don't have that same desire as you. Maybe it has to do with our interactions with women while we were younger and impressionable and we still haven't shaken those initial anchors.

Even though I have learned so much about women good and bad, I still see them relatively the same as I always have, I'm just a little more successful and knowledgeable. As much as I have tried to see from the cynical perspective I can't relate. Probably because I haven't been burned badly... yet. It is very interesting though.

The author Helen Smith does get to proposing solutions by the second half of the book (to which I have just begun reading). She suggests men garner the courage to be vocal. The funny thing is, it is really not in a man's nature to complain openly. For that matter, should any of us really even bother to care about rescuing society anyway? Perhaps the societal emasculation of men is just another aspect of natural selection culling the weak. Let society raze itself to ashes if it wants to—not my problem—just need to learn whatever it takes to thrive in whatever climate we end up in.

I think I would rather focus on dealing with things as they are and learn to adapt myself to, as Chase states, "whatever the world throws at me."

Personally, I have three goals: building myself financially, getting to the zen player mindset, and lastly, enjoying the show of worldly life, where ever it leads… does this make me a bad person?

I have off tomorrow I think I'm going to go pick it up.

It's kind of like people you can't change them only they can change themselves, you have to accept them for who they are or move on.

No way, to each his own right? :)

-Lotus
 

ray_zorse

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Reading it now. Has linked me to Murray A. Straus too which is handy as I was recently wanting data on domestic violence committed by women. (Our Prime Minister has launched another domestic violence campaign with predictably no mention of female abusers at all, and I wrote to his electoral office to say that as a male victim of domestic violence and false accusations of abuse I'm unimpressed by all the handwaving in the media and in Parliament about male abusers and I would like to see some balance introduced).
Ray
 

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I've just finished the book, and I have some final thoughts of my own. I love spending time with women (both in person to person conversation, sexually, as well as reading books written by them). The more I discover the inner workings of the female mind, the more sharply I understand my own.

ray_zorse said:
Reading it now. Has linked me to Murray A. Straus too which is handy as I was recently wanting data on domestic violence committed by women. (Our Prime Minister has launched another domestic violence campaign with predictably no mention of female abusers at all, and I wrote to his electoral office to say that as a male victim of domestic violence and false accusations of abuse I'm unimpressed by all the handwaving in the media and in Parliament about male abusers and I would like to see some balance introduced).
Ray

Ray, I'm sorry to hear about your experience with female abuse. Maybe I am still in the dark place, but I personally have no interest in writing letters or voting to change the system. I'm in favor of the author's description of "going Galt." Being what it is today, the climate is only all the more ripe for the budding seducer to practice his craft. Yesterday, I took my second married woman to bed—it feels great to be on this side of the fence.

I think it is the hallmark of a sigma male to role with the punches, emotionally indifferent to the system in place yet keenly aware of how to navigate it to best suite his personal agenda.

-M
 

ray_zorse

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I really disagree with the idea of going Galt in any way, shape or form. A high value man should never do this. He should achieve his goals the best he can under the current unfavourable climate and simultaneously campaign to get the rules changed. I'm very interested in men's activism. Actually a mate of mine organized this festival, I didn't know about it until afterwards but I'm keen to go next time. I'm also keen to get involved with helping men who have been shafted by the system. I joined DIDSS but I found it to be pretty useless, just referring dudes to "preferred lawyers" who are hopeless, instead of encouraging them to take responsibility for their issues like on this site which promotes McKenzie Friends (a McKenzie Friend is an unofficial lawyer who is not permitted to speak for you in Court but may accompany you and provide advice, noting you have a legal right to consult a McKenzie Friend at any time in any legal dealing in Australia, and that you can have cases retried if this right is found to be violated later, according to a precedent set in a famous case involving a litigant called McKenzie). I have no idea how to get involved in activism to change the Family Law and Family Violence systems, but I intend to do this when I have more time. I guess there are some good organizations that I could join and help...
Ray
 

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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ray_zorse said:
I really disagree with the idea of going Galt in any way, shape or form. A high value man should never do this. He should achieve his goals the best he can under the current unfavourable climate and simultaneously campaign to get the rules changed. I'm very interested in men's activism.

Actually a mate of mine organized this festival, I didn't know about it until afterwards but I'm keen to go next time. I'm also keen to get involved with helping men who have been shafted by the system. I joined DIDSS but I found it to be pretty useless, just referring dudes to "preferred lawyers" who are hopeless, instead of encouraging them to take responsibility for their issues like on this site which promotes McKenzie Friends (a McKenzie Friend is an unofficial lawyer who is not permitted to speak for you in Court but may accompany you and provide advice, noting you have a legal right to consult a McKenzie Friend at any time in any legal dealing in Australia, and that you can have cases retried if this right is found to be violated later, according to a precedent set in a famous case involving a litigant called McKenzie). I have no idea how to get involved in activism to change the Family Law and Family Violence systems, but I intend to do this when I have more time. I guess there are some good organizations that I could join and help...
Ray
I didn't mean to imply that no man should campaign for men's rights—I genuinely applaud your efforts.

To be honest, I have trouble seeing myself as a "high value" man—what exactly is that anyway? I have intentionally made strides to detach myself from my former concepts of value, and I find that liberating. We are probably in quite different places in our lives, and that's all good.

Lately, I've moved from bitter and frustrated over women to closed and Byronic. There are a number of reasons for this, but the number one irony is that it gets me even more results with women than ever, and it's exactly how I feel for now, too.

From my perspective, it's a crazy, ego-enhancing situation to have a married woman drive out to a movie theatre to pick me up at 2am… then to rail her brains out in my apartment so effectively that she is screaming at the top of her lungs, yet simultaneously apologizing (while I am fucking her) for being too loud (she is my first Asian)—suddenly this sounds like jouvinile boasting on my part, but in all humility, this is one of the rare times I have managed to induce so much pleasure from plain old vaginal fucking.

She told me she came out to get me because she said she doesn't want me to be so alone. I like being alone—or rather, perhaps I like being alone because it helps me get laid more… it feels genuine all around: I can be the loner I always was, yet now I can spin it into the path of being a sexy man—how ironic, and I like it.

I suppose I have difficulty seeing why the sigma seducer would want to expend any energy campaigning to improve the system when it ought to be his objective to steer clear of systems in principle.

-M
 

Chase

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I think it's worth noting that historically, when you have civilizations that become sufficiently wealthy and powerful, the populations tend to stop breeding and begin to decline in numbers. Then when their civilizations eventually crash, or they experience wars that ravage their male populations, you see baby booms again. If you read history, you'll see lots of powerful, wealthy, late-stage civilizations trying to find ways to encourage their citizens to breed, and failing.

Also, depending on the region, I think it was historically only about 80% of Asian men successfully reproduced, only about 60% of European men did, and only about 40% of African men did. So any situation where large amounts of men are opting out of mating/reproducing doesn't seem to be anything terribly special or different; seems to simply be more of the same. Whether men have traditionally not reproduced due to disease, or death in military campaigns or dangerous labor, or being too poor or too low status to afford to, or because they simply opted out, doesn't seem to make much difference; the reasons may be different from age to age, but the results are the same.

The statistics for Americans right now actually are 87% of women reproduce, and 81% of men do, at some point in their lives; for any ethnicity than Asian, the men are in fact batting far above their historical average.

Be wary of New York Times-ish "trends" ("The Growing Childfree Trend: Now 19% of Men Will Never Reproduce"); the media loves to cite outrageous statistics or examples, that may be perfectly normal but most people simply aren't familiar with them, and blow these up into major trends that signal the sky is falling. Then bloggers jump on the bandwagon. Then folks write books on them. Then pretty soon everyone's convinced we're spiraling the drain. They've been doing it this way for a few thousand years now, and they were probably doing it orally long before they started having news bulletins. Anyone who can convince a large number of people that something terrible, momentous, or entirely unprecedented is happening is bound to enrich himself in the process.

Thomas Jefferson in 1807 said:
The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false.

I'd revise that quote of Jefferson's from "a newspaper" to "any form of popular writing."

Chase
 

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Chase said:
I think it's worth noting that historically, when you have civilizations that become sufficiently wealthy and powerful, the populations tend to stop breeding and begin to decline in numbers. Then when their civilizations eventually crash, or they experience wars that ravage their male populations, you see baby booms again. If you read history, you'll see lots of powerful, wealthy, late-stage civilizations trying to find ways to encourage their citizens to breed, and failing.

Also, depending on the region, I think it was historically only about 80% of Asian men successfully reproduced, only about 60% of European men did, and only about 40% of African men did. So any situation where large amounts of men are opting out of mating/reproducing doesn't seem to be anything terribly special or different; seems to simply be more of the same. Whether men have traditionally not reproduced due to disease, or death in military campaigns or dangerous labor, or being too poor or too low status to afford to, or because they simply opted out, doesn't seem to make much difference; the reasons may be different from age to age, but the results are the same.

The statistics for Americans right now actually are 87% of women reproduce, and 81% of men do, at some point in their lives; for any ethnicity than Asian, the men are in fact batting far above their historical average.

Be wary of New York Times-ish "trends" ("The Growing Childfree Trend: Now 19% of Men Will Never Reproduce"); the media loves to cite outrageous statistics or examples, that may be perfectly normal but most people simply aren't familiar with them, and blow these up into major trends that signal the sky is falling. Then bloggers jump on the bandwagon. Then folks write books on them. Then pretty soon everyone's convinced we're spiraling the drain. They've been doing it this way for a few thousand years now, and they were probably doing it orally long before they started having news bulletins. Anyone who can convince a large number of people that something terrible, momentous, or entirely unprecedented is happening is bound to enrich himself in the process.

Thomas Jefferson in 1807 said:
The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false.

I'd revise that quote of Jefferson's from "a newspaper" to "any form of popular writing."

Chase

Hi Chase-

I completely agree with that Jefferson quote - looks like you called out the "Chicken Little" in me. :)

I think I found and read this book only because something of it stood out and spoke to me - perhaps I am simply "on strike" from that which I have been indoctrinated. Unraveling unfounded beliefs has become the central focus of personal development at this point in my life: this goes not only for sleeping with women, but also for financial and musical success, all of which I finally realize are totally independent entities from one another.

At the end of the day, I cannot see myself as a man who would want to marry, yet it has taken me some time to conclude that this is not a bad thing, nor is it some gross abnormality. I am happy as a solitary man who brings a number of women into and out of his life on a regular basis, and I believe this is a perfectly natural state of being for a healthy, middle-aged man.

-M
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Chase,

i like to point out something. While yes, reading can make one vulnerable and you have called me out on this on the matriachy thing where i went off tangent, there were times where i feel you were "mellow" for the part where i point facts like men who are bitter because it is based on lots of experiences and reading.

Also...Because the system made them bitter!

It is like you put me in a shit position and then you deviate the problem and say it is my problem. And i don't know, i run my life in cycles, which is what is happening to society.

Are most men lazy for success? Sure. Are most men being lied that they suppose to get social circles and get married? Sure.

You see my point? I know you empathize. :) So this is just a written note i guess.

Zac
 

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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211
Zac-

If I may, I now realize the same trend within many facets of life, and my conclusion is the same for all: stop playing along with the masses - just release oneself from the burden of conformity.

I know that probably sounds cliche, and it is easier to say than to do, but in my experience, attempting to conform is even harder, if not utterly impossible. It's a vicious cycle of wanting to be a "dogooder," assuming that conforming will lead to validation and hence, lasting happiness - it does not… with female, artistic, and even financial success.

For me, it comes down to a simple choice between two options: attempt to conform and be miserable (mostly by my utter inability to actually do it, let alone the dull factor…), or just do my own thing always keeping my mind open to fresh possibilities and see where life takes me. :)

-M
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Mischief,

You know, i actually posted something related to this on Facebook. Here's here.

5nlkxi.jpg

Zac
 

Bete Noire

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Hey Zac,

With the post above i am definately the second grouping,

Sticking around with each herd just enough to not be considered an outsider,

By your model does this mean i am less likely to get what i want?

Would be happy to hear everyones two cents :)

- Rob
 

Motiv

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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ZacAdam said:
Mischief,

You know, i actually posted something related to this on Facebook. Here's here.

5nlkxi.jpg

Zac

Zac–

I like your version! It's more accurate than simply saying, "just be a rebel, man…" I find myself actually pretending to conform QUITE often, particularly in musical terms (a.k.a. going along with a fellow musician who's playing and talking just don't make sense to me, but managing to use even the smallest inkling of common ground in order to get along for the sake of increasing work opportunities – it works!)

We can use this with "dumb" girls too – today, I did a job where I sat next to gorgeous girl who's a college senior in a Unibersity orchestra (colleague hired me to be a ringer). By the end of the concert, she asked for a picture with me, and we ended up exchanging numbers. As a violinist, she is virtually handicapped (to quote a mean expression from my former teacher), but as a woman, she is young, vibrant, and drop-dead gorgeous, and I can tell she looks in awe of me – all the fundamentals I have learned from GC and worked so hard on are paying off in spades. I set aside the stigma of my close-minded misgivings and openly flirt with her. This is something I would have never done two years ago, and it is a wonderful thing.

Pretend. Empathy helps with that.

-M
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Hi Guys, (Robster1919, Mischief)

Robster1919 said:
With the post above i am definately the second grouping,

Sticking around with each herd just enough to not be considered an outsider,

By your model does this mean i am less likely to get what i want?

Mischief said:
I like your version! It's more accurate than simply saying, "just be a rebel, man…

To touch deep, Didn't i just give you guys an illusion of choice, where you have to pick either one? ;) So, now that we touch abit deep, you can recognize this is what women do to other people, and what older people do to their young generation.

They called it "respect"
"tone policing"
They called it "know your place"

and different variation of names. Chase has a term called "emotional violence", but in this terminology, it is being used in a negative way.

Okay now, pushing aside the mindfucking (hahaha), we have been doing both of the choices and we have been switching back and forth between those choices. Most of us do deviate our fellow humans in things we are not aware of, and we do try to not do much of the first point once we recognize the severity or at least aware of the first. Given an example, You learn Girlschase, you read up on religious girls and you think to yourself that you should not have done the thing you do. So, now you are aware of it and you prefer to take the second route BUT that doesn't mean you will not do the first.

Most people do the first choice until the severity of the decision comes to surface. and some just don't care about the damage because every man is for himself. :) which is fair to me.

Zac
 
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