Time for me to take action: Guide me so I don't finish college a virgin

I want this to work as a way in which every day I post some updates about what is going on and you guys give me some advice along the way. So if I get a number from a girl, instead of posting a thread on it, I will post it on here and hope that guys like Franco, PinotNoir, Proactivity, and fsc give me some pointers along the way. This is an action thread, not a whining thread because I am done wallowing in self-pity.

I will try to update this thread daily if I can.

I was going to post this in the journals section but then I realized that it would end up being a dairy entry, want it to be far more than that. I would this to be a coaching experience in a way, I am the player and you are my coach. No I won't follow your advice down to a tee and ask you to give me pick up lines but I will follow your game plan. No more whining, it's all about action now for me.

Background: I am a 21 yr old virgin with a sheltered upbringing (strict parents and all that jazz) but I started studying PUA and approach type of stuff back when I was around 18 or so.

More about my current situation:

- 1 year left of college (this semester and the next one) to lose my virginity
- Go to a large state school in the southeast located in a college town
- Huge greek life scene
- Not in a fraternity and rushing at this point will mostly be pointless
- Perfectly comfortable talking to women so I don't suffer from approach anxiety
- Confidence has taken a hit ever since I came to this university because I have done so poorly here
- I am a minority (brown arab) so that might impact things but unlike previous threads I won't focus too much on it

So far from the reading I have done on college game, it seems like being in a frat or being an athlete is the best way to get the highly attractive girl but I realize that since I am a virgin at 21, I need to lower my standards. No longer aiming for the blonde bombshells or the sorority girls, just any decent looking girl will do.

What I need help with.

1. What are places in college I should start other than classrooms? Are college bars worth it for a guy like me who is a college kid with low status (not in a frat and not an athlete)?

2. How do I escalate or "move fast" in college as chase says? I won't be using KINO in class so there must be other ways.

Here is something you can guys can help me with right now that is happening in my life.

In one of my classes there is this cute girl that sits behind me. She usually gets there like a minute or so before class and then the class starts, it is a small class too. Now the problem is that I have chatted with her but whenever it gets somewhat interesting I have not managed to get the number. The seating arrangement in the class is all fucked up some days to where we can't sit near each other as much. I am afraid I might have missed that window of opportunity in terms of moving fast, I could have almost guaranteed this girl was into me at first too. I have only known her for like a week though and was wondering how I can get around to getting her # or escalating with her.

One last major request: If you have no idea how college game works then please don't try to help me. It is better you ignore this thread than give me the wrong advice which gets me labeled as the campus creep.

Altair,
In college myself and I happen to go to a big state SEC school myself. I recommend you not focus on your disadvantage on race and not being in a frat- it will hurt your confidence and will make assuming attraction (a must) harder. Definitely hit up those bars and all nightlife/alcohol infused events. When you're there don't just focus on hitting on girls and creepily eying the venue looking to make your move. Have some fun while you're at it. Have a good, positive, fun vibe, and get more sexual as the conversation goes on. You don't need to be smooth and suave likes James Bond to pull at college.
Secondly, not sure what you're involved in on campus- but unless your plate is completely full I recommend getting involved in student organizations that hot girls are a part of in order to meet them. These will be great opportunities for you to meet tons of girls in non-forced interactions.
And I would say you should just overall loosen up. Maybe read Chase's article on the devil may care attitude. If you have been doing the approaches and everything is falling flat consistently it's probably because you're putting out an attached, nervous, and/or creepy vibe. Convey your interest but don't come on too strong and keep a good vibe. If the girl doesn't bite, don't take it personally- she's rejecting your game not you, and move onto trying to hook up with one of the thousands of other pretty girls (I'm assuming) there are on your campus. Reality is that rejection isn't that big of a deal. Maybe focus on being more playful and relaxed since being arabic could be a little intimidating for some girls- but if you play it right: exotic and sexy.
Best of luck
Allen

Altair,
Great thread and great to see you're making this work! Hope you keep progressing.

Small tip:
Of course, set your goals and your standards high (i.e. your goal to have sex before end of college).
But sometimes an easy way to actually make progress is make little goals. Like you asked about approaching in college... well, thats goal 1. If you make approaches in college, pat yourself on the back, count it a success and then set a new goal for the day/week that takes things a little further. That way you'll feel better for little triumphs than only looking at the bigger overall goal.

Well, how do I progress at a college bar type of setting? There doesn't seem to be any advice out there about what goes on at college bars. I remember reading "Conquer Your Campus" a while back and it said that cold approaches in college bars just don't work. Most of my friends do not really go out to drink at the bars, they prefer to just play videogames and stay at home during the weekends. Now at the bars I see a lot of pretty looking girls but I don't really know what to do.

The old and naive PUA version of me would have gone cold approach crazy and just hit on these girls to no end only to be creep zoned but how should I go about it now?

Altair said:

I remember reading "Conquer Your Campus" a while back and it said that cold approaches in college bars just don't work.

Click to expand...

I went to UCF for spring break a year ago with a fake ID and approached like 12 girls at one of the local college bars there and had success that was alright for back then. However now that I know what I'm doing I'm pretty sure I could get some success there.

So I guess that doesn't give any proof as to your premise being true or false but I wouldn't focus on what's supposedly possible. Just go out and see what happens. See if the article was true or false for yourself.

If you're targeting college bars, I think you have to ease up a little on being cool and too smooth and just go with the flow of the party.
Don't focus on deep diving one girl right away, just bounce around and talk/flirt with lots of people.

Boston is a huge college city so even though I'm past the age, it's difficult not to be around people in the early 20's wherever you go.

I was at a on Friday with a band and all the girls were just dancing and grinding on guys and moving from person to person. As long as you look kinda fun and keep yourself open, half the time the girls will just come up to you and ask dumb questions or ask why you're not dancing. Often they just get in proximity because they want attention and you can just open them any way you want and escalate.

If that's the kind of bar you're into, a lot of the girls are there to party and get hit on. It's not really difficult at all to at least dance with or make out with a girl. Just go for it.

Well guys, I am not in a big city, I am in more of a college town and we are far from being as liberal as boston is. Having gone out to the bars before it seems like a lot of the girls come with their dates and leave with their dates. My main issue in college has been escalation though, whether it is classrooms or activities, how do I get a girl to go out with me or put her in a situation where we can escalate. Obviously anywhere inside of the classroom and near her friends is awkward and creepy.

My only hangup about college bars and bars in general is if they are a place for a guy like me. I obviously don't mind the loud music or getting drunk but I don't know how hookups from bars really happen.

The problem isn't just losing my virginity, I cannot get dates in college and that has to be pretty fucking sad. I am not afraid to talk to girls and I don't think I am facially deformed yet I cannot for the life of me get a girl to go out with me let alone get to the point where I am losing my virginity. This is the main thing I want to fix, as Estate said, take it a step at a time.

Altair-

Moving in the right direction. However, as Estate alludes to by suggesting you come up with smaller goals, you're still attacking this from a "I need a turnkey solution" angle instead of a "I need to get into action" angle.

Having been teaching this for the better part of a decade at this point, I can tell you what I've seen again and again: exactly two kinds of guys, learning-wise...

• The guys who say, "Tell me what to do and I will go do it immediately"
• The guys who say, "What do I do?" and when you tell them they go, "Yeah, but that won't work," or, "But I need to know what comes next!"

The first category is made up of guys like Richard and NJ and Anatman and Marty (who recently emailed me to let me know he's in a long-term relationship with his singer girl and he's the happiest he's ever been in his life), and most of the Rank 4 and 3 guys and a fair chunk of the Rank 2 guys. These are guys who are more interested in BEING good than in LOOKING good. They also know how to learn: they know that if you want to wait until you have a perfect idea about how to do something, start to finish, you will be waiting UNTIL THE END OF TIME before you start.

The second category is made up of the various guys we see wash in on here on the tide, hang around for a bit, ask increasingly frustrated questions about, "How do I build a rocket ship that will get me to Mars?" and we say, "Well, first, you're going to need to know how to build a rocket. So start practicing," and they say, "YEAH BUT HOW DO I BUILD A ROCKET SHIP THAT WILL GET ME TO MARS?" and we go, "Start with building rockets," and they go, "YOU'RE NOT LISTENING, I NEED A ROCKET SHIP THAT WILL GET ME TO MARS!!!"

After a little while, the second guys melt down and leave (Garrett, Ryan), or they hang around forever like they're stuck in some kind of bizarre pickup edition of Groundhog Day and ask the same questions again and again, slightly rephrased, for years. Meanwhile, guys like Marty, who start out getting rejection after rejection after rejection and saying things wrong and making silly mistakes, start off way worse than they probably would be if they actually did anything, but after a year have left them in the dust.

You need to stop trying to have it all figured out before you start, because you'll have about as much of a chance of that as the guy who sits down and says, "Hmm, how do I become a multibillionaire? Because you know I can't start working on business until I'm certain I have the right path to get there!" or the guy who says, "You know, I want to be an All Star NBA player, but I don't want to look bad out there on the court in front of the other guys shooting around, so I'm not going to start teaching myself basketball until I know how to be an All Star." These guys are hopelessly doomed and they don't even know it.

You don't need strategy right now.

You don't need to know how to sleep with girls.

You are here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mcUPY0RMdU

Sex with girls is not in your circle yet, and there is nothing outside of your circle.

This is what is inside your circle:

Newbie Assignment

Quit stalling with big picture questions and do the little things. Big things come later.

Chase

Something that 'helped' me was to create opportunities rather than dismiss them.

What that means is if either someone asks you for 'help', or asks if you want to hang out then do it. Also don't miss opportunities to ask someone for a drink, etc etc at the end of the day. You never know where this can lead. Sometimes college girls just need an excuse, it doesn't really matter what.

I missed a crazy amount of opportunities with girls just because I didn't recognise where things could possibly lead. Including one when I was chilling out with a girl after a club. I'd left my bag at her house before we went out, my intention was just pick it up and go and she invited me in. We smoked a bit of pot for a while and I then decided it was a good idea to go home despite her giving me no indication that was what she wanted. This was a bad move, don't ever do this

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Good point chase.

Your Newbie assignment is a start but as I have said before, approaching women is not foreign to me at all. I have approached women before due to PUA only to have earned somewhat of the creep reputation. It is good for me to visit the basic fundamentals and pay attention to the little things. It is a start and at this point that is all I can ask for.

Anyone else in here that has knowledge of how to have success on a college campus setting feel free to add it but I am going to start with the newbie assignment today.

Also Chase, what should be my mindset going into this? Obviously, I am in a college town type setting and a lot of the girls here are going to be cold, rude, and just flat out mean to me. Just last week I had a melt down and ended up cussing out this blonde at a restaurant which escalated into an undesirable situation for me so I want to know what mindset I should have for those circumstances because at times I feel like people are laughing at me when I approach girls. I read your victim mentality post and I feel that sometimes the world sees me as a joke and doesn't take me seriously.

Good for you Altair. Just get out there and do your best and take every little win as it comes.

Hope you don't think anyone's being too harsh in our replies. Personally some of the best responses I've had is when someone just gave me that little kick in the butt to just go do something.

Chases reply is spot on (and I'm delighted to hear about Marty in particular!)
If you take approach anxiety for example. There's no fix. We all still get it from time to time. I'm sure even the best here agree but you learn to push through.

I tend to come and pose questions when I've hit a failure or a sticking point still. But the thing is.. I set my end goals very very high. So in a way.. even if I fail sometimes... With the help of all these guys I've still come a he'll of a long way further than I thought possible. See my thread on getting girlfriends lately. Part of my problem is I've turned down the opportunity with women that I would have killed to be with in the past. I didn't have any level of abundance or the standards I do now. So at times I might be shooting myself in the foot by aiming so high. I just believe I've come so much further than I once thought was possible.. I keep striving for better and better.

Some guys I know just snigger at my "problem". Oh she slept with you and you're unhappy? They say. But you set your own goals and recognize each little win on the way.

This thread even inspired me to check back in with the newbie assignment. I still have to go back from time to time and self correct some things like posture or other fundamentals which I've relaxed on.. It's a constant process. Even if I've done something before.. I have to make sure I keep doing it.

I could TRY to help with the college bar environment but i admit I'm coming from a different angle on it. At 19 or 20 i had no idea either what i was doing but these days i get it and those environments are a breeze for casual hookups. But they are a totally different style from where i LIKE to be to meet women more in line with my current age and lifestyle. But don't be so quick to dismiss certain things. I have to laugh when i read the guys posting about Europe girls or Asian girls or college girls or whatever being different. It's the same the world over. In Europe, the women's outlook might be different so you adjust your game but things aren't any easier or difficult. Same with college game. There might be different demographics in your town than mine but the college scene has similarities all over. If you're only seeing girls with boyfriends and no single college girls? Maybe look at other venues or really look harder when there... young single college people are everywhere.

Altair-

Altair said:

Your Newbie assignment is a start but as I have said before, approaching women is not foreign to me at all. I have approached women before due to PUA only to have earned somewhat of the creep reputation. It is good for me to visit the basic fundamentals and pay attention to the little things. It is a start and at this point that is all I can ask for.

Click to expand...

That's hard in a reputation-heavy setting. The best advice I can give you on that is that developing social awareness needs to be your highest priority, with picking up and succeeding with women coming secondary to this. Fixating on "how can I get laid?" when you're still lacking basic social competence is trying to figure out how you can get up and run around when you haven't figured out how to flip over and crawl yet. It will come, but you need the steps before it first.

For developing social awareness, you need to be exposing yourself to people every opportunity you can possibly get: work on fundamentals and try to look cool, make idle chitchat with people in class, clerks, etc. - other things guys have suggested here. Go to bars and DON'T focus on picking up - get there early and just circulate around and talk to everybody in the venue.

I'm not sure how bad your "creep reputation" was or how sensitive to it you were. When I was hitting the bars hard in college there were undoubtedly some people that thought I was kind of weird for just going around by myself talking to everyone dressed in a cowboy hat, suit jacket, and gold jewelry. But I just kept hitting the bars and clubs HARD because I needed to rack up all that social feedback: what's cool, what's not; what's acceptable, what isn't; what's too much, what's not enough, what's just right.

You ONLY get that through pushing the boundaries and exposing yourself to social risk. You don't go a little too far, and the only progress you're capable of making is just inching along.

Altair said:

Anyone else in here that has knowledge of how to have success on a college campus setting feel free to add it but I am going to start with the newbie assignment today.

Also Chase, what should be my mindset going into this? Obviously, I am in a college town type setting and a lot of the girls here are going to be cold, rude, and just flat out mean to me. Just last week I had a melt down and ended up cussing out this blonde at a restaurant which escalated into an undesirable situation for me so I want to know what mindset I should have for those circumstances because at times I feel like people are laughing at me when I approach girls. I read your victim mentality post and I feel that sometimes the world sees me as a joke and doesn't take me seriously.

Click to expand...

I can only tell you what I did my last year in school.

I started cold approach second semester of junior year. It was only a sometimes thing for me then because I had tons of anxiety. Some bar approaches, some in the cafeteria, a few in the gym. I made a little progress and got some phone numbers and dates, though continually blew these by getting really emotional at women when they didn't respond quickly enough for me or something along those lines. I discovered PUA a year later, and immediately started cold approaching a lot more in the two nightclubs and a few of the bars in town, and signed up for a bootcamp to really kick my ass into gear. After that, in my final semester, I was a going out machine: 3 or 4 times a week. I was committed.

Much of the time I felt like a fool. Everybody knows I'm some loser who's going to bars by himself, I thought, sitting around by himself nursing his drink, and occasionally peeling off and trying to talk to all these people. I tried to go right as soon as the club opened because then you can drift around and greet people as they come in, which made the nights go easier for me since I had a lot of familiar faces I could retreat to after harsh rejections or overwhelming approach anxiety. And I was dressed up so crazily that I attracted lots of attention, good and bad. I had a lot of really bitter nights where I felt like a complete social reject. Yet, I also had nights where I was feeling that way, and then I'd decide "one more open before I call it a night", go open some girl, and minutes later I'm getting my first club makeout on the dance floor with my hands all over this girl's ass, or I've got a girl running her hands over my chest and basically propositioning me. So it was a roller coaster ride.

But what the hell else are you in school for, anyway?

You're never going to be there again.

You're never going to see these people again.

If you make a fool of yourself, they'll have forgotten completely about you within a year. I doubt anyone who isn't your friend there will remember you by 2016.

What are you even there for - is it to get an education? Prepare you for the real world? Because I don't think there's any more important education or any preparation for the real world that's MORE important than social skills.

So you can sit there and twiddle your thumbs and wait for someone to give you a risk-free plan to get laid in college without exposing yourself to any negative feelings at all, and turn into a mummy while you wait.

Or you can do what I and all the other guys operating in college here did and say FUCK my feelings, because feelings are for PUSSIES; men get RESULTS, and *I* want RESULTS. Then just go DO it.

The path is clear. The choice is yours. There is NOTHING else but action. NO strategy, NO risk-free method, just go take the pain and get the lessons or stay in your cocoon and don't.

Familiar comfort zone where nothing changes, or punishing pain, rejection, and ultimately redemption? Pick the one you want and commit, instead of staying in this halfway zone where you want the results but are scared of the pain.

Chase

Just want to second what chase says here. Don't make your aim of a night out getting numbers or having sex - dial down the pressure! Just aim to get to know people and have fun with them (people having fun with you and seeing you have fun is probably the most important first step to being integrated well and gaining experience). Thats probably the most important hurdle - once you have that it should be relatively easy to get a number at a high point and you can start working from there on all the other stuff.

Well so far, today I was in class and I ended up seeing this cute brunette sitting in the desk in front of mines. My friend shows up and we chat for a bit but then the brunette starts to chat a bit with him. I decide to try and talk to her only to be mostly disregarded by this stuckup bitch, my friend had been done talking to her and was talking to a few other girls. As class ended I tried to make some chat with her but she simply said "ya I have a class next" and then hurried out of there. WTF, like really? At the last university I was at I had girls in her looks range being warm to me and one girl like her even went on a date with me but then here (a much larger university) it is like I am Quasimodo. Man, I don't fucking get it, what is it with girls at major state schools compared to girls at community colleges and in big cities?

It is shit like this that makes it so difficult for me to be a lover of women. I mean one rejection is good but when you have had quite a few women act like total cunts towards you then you can't help but be an angry and bitter guy at times. Then I came home and just relaxed a bit, have other things going well in my life, made an A on my physics exam and an A on my chem exam as well.

So ya, one attempt to make a small chat failed. Time to keep pushing and not let it get to me as much.

I'm in a relative same case , i alerady laucnhed a topic a bout it
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7888

My biggest probmeme is the sexual aspect , how to toutche, kiss and close and other sexaul communication and framing. How to do them when you are inexperienced!!!!

If we take thing like that in terms of this website
You have to frame yoursefl direcly or indrecly as sexual ,by Kinon, subcommunication, escalation. If i don't do this (as i understand perhaps badly), i could not get laid.

But how to do that well if you are inexperienced at all?

I advise you to hit the bar life scenes. The social circle rules don't apply there so much, which can lead to better results.

This I myself realized when I had spent years learning of social circle gaming.

It's hard. Very hard. And if you happen to stick to your social circle at bar venues (like I did, now realizing the error) it's not much easier.

If your fear is that you are being judged right off the bat, then try the bars, without your social circle being around. People may be more open there.
Of course you will get rejections and encounter cold approach walls - just as there's a chance you will get the red ones in a M & M's bag. But there's always a chance of success too - and those successes may not be major ones; perhaps it may simply be an succesful cold approach, or realizing how many approach invitations you had during the night.
Perhaps it's manifested as a traded phone number.

And just as Chase already mentioned, don't think about bedding a girl as your top priority right now.

Your top priority right now is simply to become gradually better and better. When you do this, there's a good chance that you are going to have your moment without even noticing it - because it will come like naturally, which can be mindblowing when you realize it at the very moment. Of course you can continue doing your game at the social circle/campus level, but remember that it's way harder. So don't get disappointed if you get rejections - it's part of the game.

I haven't encountered racial issues, but I've journeyed at least some parts of your path. My earlier life have been full of rejections, friend zonings, humiliations and other, when it comes to women.

I remember my first time when I actually tried to cold approach a girl which I had a crush on, back at high school. I approached and asked something normal.
She didn't answer. I repeated my question but she looked away like I was air to her.
I retreated elsewhere and had a panic attack.

I also recall one time when I literally had a "**** off"-rejection when cold approaching a girl.

This all while being the confused, regural late-teen dude that I was back then.


During those times I was so bottom in the pit that I thought I'm never going to have any luck with women.
Fortunately, I met later some great girls whom I didn't start a relationship with, but who taught me that not all girls are bad (well they didn't teach it literally, but I simply realized it while being a good friend to them). Also, they taught me that I really am after all a cool and great guy.
I could say they lifted me from the bottom to the neutral ground, and now I've started trying to reach the high grounds - beginning from the observation and learning the different implicit mechanisms that are in play, and continuing to the cold approaches, more confident postures and other.
Now, at bars, I've had (or have realized that I do receive) some approach invitations and at day time IOI's.



These are all about learning by small steps, but with every step you thread a little further.

Well guys, here is an update on the past few days. I didn't have time to really get on as much because my schedule has been loaded but so far there are some things I have observed. Right now I know that there are at least 2 girls who are somewhat interested in me but being a college kid I don't know if those are the options. My problem has always been the same since I first came here.

1. I can strike up a conversation with a girl and approach a random girl without any issues
2. I can even get the number if I want
3. It ends right there

It has been my major problem. I can do the cold approach, get the number, but it stops right there. I don't know how to really escalate especially when we are in a college type setting where you can develop a reputation as a creep fast if you screw up and I do see the same people time and time again on campus.

Also, I have a class but right before my class another class leaves. There is this gorgeous blonde who always walks about, she hasn't given me any IOIs or anything but she is hot. A part of wants to approach and chat with her but I fear that I could really embarrass myself
Well guess that risk is for later!

Altair. There's a good article on the site about dealing with flakes.
I.e. If you are getting numbers but not a lot is coming from it yet.

It's a good read. Essentially it explains about how you want to leave the interaction. You might be making them like you enough to say "ook" to giving their number but later on when you text/call they are not invested enough to want to carry on talking.

Check it out.. sounds like what you're dealing with here.

Altair,

Just one more thing I wanted to note related to this thread.

One thing you really need to focus on at the end of every interaction is, "at what point did I go wrong, and what do I need to change?" Something I notice about some people on the forums is that they say something along the lines of, "I approached this girl today, and blah blah happened, so it sucks. Why do these girls not like me?"

Instead, questions should be re-phrased as something like the following: "I approached this girl today. The results were okay at the start as she was smiling and I got her in conversation. However, when I tried to move her, she said she had to go. Should I have persisted here? Or maybe I should have taken her number? What do you guys think?"

This is how you tackle learning seduction (or any skill for that matter). When you're asking for advice, you have to ask the right questions. When Kobe Bryant first started learning basketball and missed his first few jump shots, do you think he said, "damn, basketball just isn't for me. Michael Jordan makes 65% of his shots and I just took 10 shots and only made 2. Basketball isn't for me." Of course not. He probably said something along the lines of, "so of the two shots I made, I noticed I released the ball at the height of my jump, but it seemed like the other shots I was releasing too early. Let me take 10 more shots releasing the ball at the height of my jump and see if I get better results." And suddenly, Bryant makes 3 or 4 baskets instead of 2.

That's the same approach you take to seduction. You analyze the small pieces where things are going wrong (and conversely take note of when you do things right), and then you find solutions to it. So just make sure that you don't worry so much about the RESULT of the interaction as you do about the specifics of the interactions where things might have gone wrong. If you do that, you'll be able to be much more focused on improving rather than being down about yourself after you've only given yourself a few chances to succeed.

- Franco