How to Not Be Bitter?



How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby DavidEdge » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:24 pm

I find it hard to see women as cute, sweet, sexual creatures when I'm failing to approach or lack of results. I get really mad at myself for not approaching and sometimes I feel like if women play hard to get, act aloof, or act chaste what's the point of trying to talk to a women and try to make her life better. I also get angry at the fact that I work so hard to improve myself and I never get approach by girls, but a girl could not do anything and get approach by dozens of guys. I try so hard to be what women want and my work isn't paying off, I'm jealous at women for having easy dating lives, they get to be picky while I am a little needy and I have to beat myself up not to chase. I don't think women have hearts, I think they don't give a shit about men, they don't constantly try to improve themselves to be what men want. They don't care about me so why I care for them? They lose attraction so fast it seems unreal to me. I know women are not like this (only a few are really evil) but my brain hasn't experience this. Sure I know women are not heartless, but I've never experience them being lovely and sexual. I know being bitter isn't good for seduction, but how can I not be bitter even if I'm failing to approach, getting rejected, lack of results? In other words, how to not be bitter?
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby thejourneyman » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:07 pm

this is actually so true.. but i dunno i rationalize this way:

if you had an unattractive girl chasing you, and seeing a new message notification appear from her on your phone or your facebook what do you do? Your first inclination: be exasperated, and hit that ignore button. If shes isnt responding well, i have to imagine their thought process to be similar to ours:

there simply isnt enough respect/attraction to warrant attention. So I either messed up by being needy or have a mismatch of expectations. I have learnt that social image management comes first for girls, always, and once you understand that if you will in any way threaten this reputation, they WILL throw you under the bus.

also, the final thing that can alleviate feelings of bitterness is that girls, in general, become more desperate by the time they hit 28++ years old, and you can reap the sweet karma if you have kept up your self-improvement by then... they will be the ones chasing.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby ZacAdam » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:14 pm

DavidEdge,

DavidEdge wrote:I find it hard to see women as cute, sweet, sexual creatures when I'm failing to approach or lack of results. I get really mad at myself for not approaching and sometimes I feel like if women play hard to get, act aloof, or act chaste what's the point of trying to talk to a women and try to make her life better. I also get angry at the fact that I work so hard to improve myself and I never get approach by girls, but a girl could not do anything and get approach by dozens of guys. I try so hard to be what women want and my work isn't paying off, I'm jealous at women for having easy dating lives, they get to be picky while I am a little needy and I have to beat myself up not to chase. I don't think women have hearts, I think they don't give a shit about men, they don't constantly try to improve themselves to be what men want. They don't care about me so why I care for them? They lose attraction so fast it seems unreal to me. I know women are not like this (only a few are really evil) but my brain hasn't experience this. Sure I know women are not heartless, but I've never experience them being lovely and sexual. I know being bitter isn't good for seduction, but how can I not be bitter even if I'm failing to approach, getting rejected, lack of results? In other words, how to not be bitter?


Your question is very difficult for anyone to answer, as i believe. Everyone has their own take on women. It's like Religion to most human beings. We will do whatever it takes in our last ounce of humanity to protect it.

Sometimes we have to ask ourselves what are we defending or afraid against, Why do we feel in such manner, and how it's actually our feelings and not other people. Sometimes it is that other people are bitter, they are mean. This is where we have to draw a line between knowing what we are doing, and how people are reacting to us.

It's not always our fault, yet we must take notes where we stand and where others stand, and how to protect ourselves. The Brain is a learning mechanism, as quoted by Michio Kaku.

I hope this helps you in any manner possible. It's a general response compared to a dating advice :)

Zac
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby DavidEdge » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:54 pm

thejourneyman wrote:
also, the final thing that can alleviate feelings of bitterness is that girls, in general, become more desperate by the time they hit 28++ years old, and you can reap the sweet karma if you have kept up your self-improvement by then... they will be the ones chasing.


I don't think I'll get vengeance, but I like your style ;)
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby DavidEdge » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:00 pm

ZacAdam wrote:Your question is very difficult for anyone to answer, as i believe. Everyone has their own take on women. It's like Religion to most human beings. We will do whatever it takes in our last ounce of humanity to protect it.

Sometimes we have to ask ourselves what are we defending or afraid against, Why do we feel in such manner, and how it's actually our feelings and not other people. Sometimes it is that other people are bitter, they are mean. This is where we have to draw a line between knowing what we are doing, and how people are reacting to us.

It's not always our fault, yet we must take notes where we stand and where others stand, and how to protect ourselves. The Brain is a learning mechanism, as quoted by Michio Kaku.

I hope this helps you in any manner possible. It's a general response compared to a dating advice :)

Zac


You always give great word of wisdom. You're right in everyway; I shouldn't be too hard on myself because I'm really trying to improve my skills with women to love them better. If a women acts rude, aloof, chaste with me it's either my fault for not doing a good job or it's her because she is not interested, bitter.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Franco » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:40 pm

David,

In case you haven't read it, this is a great article:

Most Important Thing to Becoming a Lover of Women? Don't Be Bitter

- Franco
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby LucidityComeBackToMe » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:04 am

David does have a point. Of course it is important to work on bettering one's self and not falling into a victim mentality mindset. However it seems that we (males) are brainwashed into thinking that life is better as a man and I simply don't see that (especially if you are far from being an alpha male). All these perceived privileges males have only seem valid if you are a powerful man, however the media and liberal indoctrinated universities try to tell males life is unfair for women and men have it so good. NONSENSE!

Women that are already attractive don't have to work on any skills besides applying makeup, getting those high heels out, and wearing skimpy clothing to attract mates. As thejourneyman says things only seem to even out when women get older. They will get more desperate since the number of males hitting on them starts to go down. When women are between 18-28 they can pretty much act anyway they want (e.g. bitchy, spoiled, vindictive, etc.) and still get rewarded by men if they are attractive. Women can have the time of their life when they are in their early to mid 20s while men can be in no-man's land from 18-25.

Unless you are a mature looking man with solid fundamentals, men are at a disadvantage when they are young while women are free to have the times of their lives (often with older richer men). Men seem to become more attractive to women when they are in their late 20s/early 30s since they will have lost any boyishness to them by then.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Franco » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:27 am

Lucidity,

All these perceived privileges males have only seem valid if you are a powerful man, however the media and liberal indoctrinated universities try to tell males life is unfair for women and men have it so good. NONSENSE!


You do have a point to a certain degree. In terms of who has it the best, there is certainly a hierarchy... and women sometimes like to think that they are at the bottom, but they are certainly not. Here it is:

    ...^....Top: Powerful, attractive men
    ../-\...Upper Echelon: Attractive women
    ./---\...Lower Echelon: Unattractive women
    /____\.Bottom: Weak, unattractive men

So the problem arises in the fact that the above list is actually a pyramid, and the width of the pyramid represents how many people exist in that category. So naturally, there are the fewest of powerful, attractive men and there are the most of weak, unattractive men. Attractive and unattractive women lie somewhere in between. This creates a rift because no women want men that they perceive to be below their own value, so all of them attempt to go after men who are already highly sought-after, and there are not enough of those men to go around. So what happens is that there are plenty of women (both attractive and unattractive) that are left without perceived options, so life ends up being emotionally difficult for them because they can never have the men they want. At the same time, the weak, unattractive men get upset because they see all of these women go after the top tier men who have no interest in them (or at least no interest in something long term). Then they see women scream and complain when they can't have these men, which causes these weaker men to be upset because they think to themselves, "well I'm a nice guy that you can have right here, and instead you go for those men who don't care about you! Well screw you!"

In reality, this is the truth. However, as we've taught many guys to try to understand on this website, whining and complaining as well as using black and white thinking (saying things "should" or "shouldn't" be this way or that way) doesn't get you results. That is the bottom line. You can either choose to meander around at the bottom of the pyramid struggling to find a decent woman (and then possibly losing her due to neediness when you do eventually find one), or you can fix yourself up to surpass the middle levels of the pyramid and join the men at the top tier who are getting their pick of the entire crop.

The way you have to see it is: we are lucky that we have the opportunity to be at the top. Women will never be at the top simply because there are not enough genuinely amazing men to match the amount of genuinely amazing women, so women will always have to struggle through emotional times as they see themselves lose the guy they truly desire over and over again. If you put yourself at the top of the pile, then you'll never have to worry about losing women again. Amazing ones will simply be just around the corner and ripe for the picking. ;)

- Franco
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Marty » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:09 pm

Franco:

I think this "pyramid" concept is absolutely brilliant and very thoroughly thought-out and explained. It seems to reflect the massive polarization among males (vs. females having less extreme status differentials) that is found throughout nature.

A question: on this hierarchy, those of us who are actively working on improving our skills and posting regular FRs, but are nowhere near there yet, don't really fit in, right? I'd hate to think we were still "weak and unattractive" but we certainly don't (yet) qualify among the elite. I suppose it's such a rarity to encounter such proactive self-enhancement that for the sake of simplicity, we can be excluded as immaterial, right?

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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Ryan » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:50 pm

Bump

Sometimes, i really wonder why i bother when every girl gives me nothing. And every guy in the world seems to have a girlfriend and an easy time with girls. I'm so bitter and i hate it. If anyone else has anything more to add, then i'll be happy to hear.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby DavidEdge » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:48 pm

Ryan wrote:Bump

Sometimes, i really wonder why i bother when every girl gives me nothing. And every guy in the world seems to have a girlfriend and an easy time with girls. I'm so bitter and i hate it. If anyone else has anything more to add, then i'll be happy to hear.


Yes, I feel the same way. Working on my fundamentals like crazy I got good in my walk, facial expression, posture, a little of my social skills, and mindset but still nothing but attention. I try to socialize with women who are into me but they don't help me bulid a conncetion with them they just set/stand there like fucking zombies as if they don't know how to engage in a conversation. What bothers me the most is that I really try and work hard on my fundamentals and I though I would at least have a girlfiend by now but all I earned is fucking implusive zombies. I hate being bitter, but all my life I've been harshly rejected or ignored. Im still a virgin, only had one girlfriend, and I hold on to the past harsh reject a little too much of course I'll be bitter. From now on I'm going to be apathetic about women I don't care about their feelings, I don't care if I hurt them. I spent too much time caring about women, thinking about them, trying not to hurt them, and trying to interact with them-- all the times I did care they walked all over me, ignored me, reject me (I was never a nice guy). I am an attractive dude ,yet I can't even get laid! I know how you feel Ryan we'll just have to keep working on ourselves until we get good with women. It's impossible to quit because GC information is so addicting it's like a drug . Just know you are not alone.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby PrettyDecent » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:26 am

I've seen this re-occurring theme happening on the boards. It's understandable, but it's harmful, so here are some thoughts:

It's one thing to be frustrated about not getting results fast enough, and it's another to say you've "made it" and now the world owes you compensation. One leads you to work on yourself very, very efficiently and fast, and the other gives you extremely small increments of growth spread between lengthy periods of victim mentality.

If you deliberately improve three weaknesses every time you go out, and you go out ~3 times a week, you'll see steady improvement (provided you legitimately push yourself out of your comfort zone). You'll see progress like no other; the farther you push yourself, the faster you see results.

An aside, an anecdotal allegory of what I saw when I first read this post: An enthusiastic, but skinny and lanky, man buys himself a new gym membership. Our man attends to the gym two or three times a week, and he's seen some steady improvement. Awesome! A month or two in, he glimpses the burly men beside him lifting 250 lb. on a bench press. This new lad wants the body just like these men do, too! So he goes straight from 100 lb. to 250 lb., and he struggles to even lift the bar; let alone squeeze 10 more reps. Angry and cynical about his current strength, he drives straight home. "I've been going to the gym every week!", he thinks. "Most of the time two or three times a week!! Why can't I just have strength like those burly men NOW?!!"

Well, our answer is that he is improving. Probably well, too. But there's no denying that our young man in the story has more things to learn about nutrition, form, and fitness in general to keep improving. He simply needs to put in his time.

And speaking of time...have y'all seen Determined's journal? That dude started his journal in March! He just got his first lay three weeks ago, and now has a steady stream of LR-'s coming in. Or take Marty, he'll claim that he has a slow learning rate, but he's improving fast; now getting dates more and more often (he started in June). Or even me; I also started back in March and it took me 6 months to get a date off cold approach! Dude, 6 months of rejection, 0% text-to-date conversion. But I finally broke the barrier after 6 months and I've had 15+ physical escalations since then.

Everybody has a different time for their learning curve. The lower you started with fundamentals, the longer time until your 'good'. Zphix/Tool took 3 months, and Determined and I are still catching up, even after 9+ months. I know if I didn't have victim mentality for part of that time, I'd be a solid 3-4 months ahead in terms of progress.

Don't let victim mentality slow you down. Learning seduction is a long, dark tunnel, but you just got to bolt into it, and eventually you'll see the light on the other side. And it's not done through ranting on a forum, or complaining to yourself. The fastest route is to learn, implement, and relearn as much as humanly possible. And luckily, your surrounded by men who've rode this path before. And they spend time here specifically to help you learn and provide value.

You could be using your time right now to improve one of your weaknesses. :)

~Nick
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby DavidEdge » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:32 pm

PrettyDecent wrote:I've seen this re-occurring theme happening on the boards. It's understandable, but it's harmful, so here are some thoughts:

It's one thing to be frustrated about not getting results fast enough, and it's another to say you've "made it" and now the world owes you compensation. One leads you to work on yourself very, very efficiently and fast, and the other gives you extremely small increments of growth spread between lengthy periods of victim mentality.

If you deliberately improve three weaknesses every time you go out, and you go out ~3 times a week, you'll see steady improvement (provided you legitimately push yourself out of your comfort zone). You'll see progress like no other; the farther you push yourself, the faster you see results.

An aside, an anecdotal allegory of what I saw when I first read this post: An enthusiastic, but skinny and lanky, man buys himself a new gym membership. Our man attends to the gym two or three times a week, and he's seen some steady improvement. Awesome! A month or two in, he glimpses the burly men beside him lifting 250 lb. on a bench press. This new lad wants the body just like these men do, too! So he goes straight from 100 lb. to 250 lb., and he struggles to even lift the bar; let alone squeeze 10 more reps. Angry and cynical about his current strength, he drives straight home. "I've been going to the gym every week!", he thinks. "Most of the time two or three times a week!! Why can't I just have strength like those burly men NOW?!!"

Well, our answer is that he is improving. Probably well, too. But there's no denying that our young man in the story has more things to learn about nutrition, form, and fitness in general to keep improving. He simply needs to put in his time.

And speaking of time...have y'all seen Determined's journal? That dude started his journal in March! He just got his first lay three weeks ago, and now has a steady stream of LR-'s coming in. Or take Marty, he'll claim that he has a slow learning rate, but he's improving fast; now getting dates more and more often (he started in June). Or even me; I also started back in March and it took me 6 months to get a date off cold approach! Dude, 6 months of rejection, 0% text-to-date conversion. But I finally broke the barrier after 6 months and I've had 15+ physical escalations since then.

Everybody has a different time for their learning curve. The lower you started with fundamentals, the longer time until your 'good'. Zphix/Tool took 3 months, and Determined and I are still catching up, even after 9+ months. I know if I didn't have victim mentality for part of that time, I'd be a solid 3-4 months ahead in terms of progress.

Don't let victim mentality slow you down. Learning seduction is a long, dark tunnel, but you just got to bolt into it, and eventually you'll see the light on the other side. And it's not done through ranting on a forum, or complaining to yourself. The fastest route is to learn, implement, and relearn as much as humanly possible. And luckily, your surrounded by men who've rode this path before. And they spend time here specifically to help you learn and provide value.

You could be using your time right now to improve one of your weaknesses. :)

~Nick


Wow, that was amazing motivation! No more ranting and complaining, I didn't notice I was caught up in victim mentality . It's time for me to stop weeping and start doing. I'll make a promise to myself that I will not post on this forum unless I have a field report. It's my fault I'm not good with women. I'm gonna go out and speak to the attractive women I see even if I get rejected , which I'll most likely will, I'll keep going even if it takes 6+ months. Thanks.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Marty » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:13 am

Nick really said it far better than I could. A few of his points really hit home:

PrettyDecent wrote:It's one thing to be frustrated about not getting results fast enough, and it's another to say you've "made it" and now the world owes you compensation. One leads you to work on yourself very, very efficiently and fast, and the other gives you extremely small increments of growth spread between lengthy periods of victim mentality.

This actually applies equally to almost all achievements in life that are driven by skill, process, ability and habit—not just seduction by a long shot. The people who move ahead in leaps and bounds do show occasional flashes of frustration to the outside world (and sometimes more than just flashes... read Steve Jobs's biography) but "working on themselves" is exactly what they do, without exception. Like I said, Nick put it better than I could. The ones who spend any significant time complaining to others that they "ought" to be recognized for all they've done... well, that speaks for itself, doesn't it?

Right now I am applying the improved learning ability that I have gained thanks to Chase's inspiration in at least two other walks of life that require the formation of good habits. If you can do the same you'll find that you compound your success, one off of the other.

PrettyDecent wrote:If you deliberately improve three weaknesses every time you go out, and you go out ~3 times a week, you'll see steady improvement (provided you legitimately push yourself out of your comfort zone). You'll see progress like no other; the farther you push yourself, the faster you see results.

Another great point—the sharpest learning curve is when you are at the absolute limit of your current ability (or just beyond it!): you can't stay there for more than just a short burst, because it requires too much concentration, but the next time you're in the same situation, you'll find your brain will have internalized a small portion of the routine and made it habitual, to conserve effort. (This is a important product of natural selection that we benefit from: it liberates our brains to focus on other important things, enhancing our survival.) Do it again a few times more and eventually the whole process will become unconscious. It's frightening once you realize that's what's happening!

PrettyDecent wrote:And speaking of time...have y'all seen Determined's journal? That dude started his journal in March! He just got his first lay three weeks ago, and now has a steady stream of LR-'s coming in.

One of the things I'm slightly flogging myself over mentally is that I haven't yet posted commentary on Determined's journal. Time is constrained and I spend quite a lot on this forum as it is, but that guy really lives up to his screen name. It's all about accountability and process, process, process. He's so modest he even tucked away his first LR in an entry on his journal thread. Go back to where he started and read about how he opened a French girl and her mother who both spoke no English at a seaside resort. He even talks about how bad he felt—it's so relatable. The descriptions are also very vivid: I can just picture him gliding out into the eternal spring of the San Francisco Downtown/Financial Districts as the shadows lengthen, opening a girl in his low-key, suave manner and taking her to his apartment to give her the time of her life. He comes across as so gentle, yet so in control. Well worth a read.

PrettyDecent wrote:And luckily, your surrounded by men who've rode this path before. And they spend time here specifically to help you learn and provide value.

How lucky is that? I mean, where else can you find that level of support? When I was the age of some of the folks here, the internet was unknown to the public. Chase was a shy little boy. I can't believe how valuable this one-two punch of a site+forum really is.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Prehistoric » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:18 pm

I think that you're approaching this whole women issue from the wrong perspective.

I am not a pick up champion, I just very recently started to read about women&dating and use material like the one available on this website. at almost 27 I have only slept with 4 women, but I have avoided developing angry and/or bitter feelings towards women because I see things this way:

I a man with his own life, his own interests, his own goals, his friends, his hobbies, his will to live
and then there are women, an additional entertainment that might in some cases turn into something deeper.

Women are not the thing that determines my being happy or not. Certainly I feel good after having slept with a woman, but I know how to have fun and be happy even when there are no women around me. That is why, when I get rejected, especially when going out with male buddies I just laugh about it with my friends, don't make a big deal out of it and keep on trying.

For example: last friday I went to this very very full folklore music club (I live in Europe) with 2 friends. We drank, had fun, laughed and basically tried to pick up every single woman in the club and laughing at every rejection.

Result? 65% didn't speak with me, 20% spoke to me coldly and for a short time, 10% spoke to me warmly, 4% spoke to me very warmly and danced with me, and I made out only with one, but she didn't want to go home with me.

Did I get bitter towards women? No. After all I tried, I got small results, I have now a lot of additional direct-experience material to think about and improve myself next time. Most importantly I had fun.

All these women I approached forgot about me, I am nothing special to them.
I forgot about them, they're nothing special to me.
Me and my buddies got even more buddies.

And life goes on.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Ryan » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:58 pm

PrehistoricMan wrote:I think that you're approaching this whole women issue from the wrong perspective.

I am not a pick up champion, I just very recently started to read about women&dating and use material like the one available on this website. at almost 27 I have only slept with 4 women, but I have avoided developing angry and/or bitter feelings towards women because I see things this way:

I a man with his own life, his own interests, his own goals, his friends, his hobbies, his will to live
and then there are women, an additional entertainment that might in some cases turn into something deeper.

Women are not the thing that determines my being happy or not. Certainly I feel good after having slept with a woman, but I know how to have fun and be happy even when there are no women around me. That is why, when I get rejected, especially when going out with male buddies I just laugh about it with my friends, don't make a big deal out of it and keep on trying.

For example: last friday I went to this very very full folklore music club (I live in Europe) with 2 friends. We drank, had fun, laughed and basically tried to pick up every single woman in the club and laughing at every rejection.

Result? 65% didn't speak with me, 20% spoke to me coldly and for a short time, 10% spoke to me warmly, 4% spoke to me very warmly and danced with me, and I made out only with one, but she didn't want to go home with me.

Did I get bitter towards women? No. After all I tried, I got small results, I have now a lot of additional direct-experience material to think about and improve myself next time. Most importantly I had fun.

All these women I approached forgot about me, I am nothing special to them.
I forgot about them, they're nothing special to me.
Me and my buddies got even more buddies.

And life goes on.


That's not really the same though.

I can't speak for everyone, but I get absolutely NO results with women on most of my outings. And these interactions involve a lot of effort which exhaust me mentally and physically. And most of these rejections aren't polite, but usually involve ignoring me or using her facial expressions to show she's clearly not interested.

That's not what makes me bitter. It certainly makes me disappointed and question my attractiveness. But that's a good thing, as it's motivation to continue building upon my fundamentals.

What made me bitter is that I am almost certainly doing far more than any other man in perhaps my whole country to improve his skills with women (going out everyday and cold-approaching), and yet I am surrounded with couples everyday, with girls i could only dream of.
Did they put in as much work into improving their fundamentals and 'game' with women as I did? The majority of them probably did not. They were lucky enough to be raised in the right environment (e.g. mixed-sex school) to have confidence with women, or lucky enough to bump into the right kind of woman at the right time.
I look at these happy, loving couples kissing and holding hands, and think 'why do i even bother? 'Why should I spend so much time working for women when they never reciprocate or appreciate what i do for them?'. Who knows what i could have achieved if i put all that energy into other worthy pursuits.

As you can see, what makes me bitter, is that life is not fair. It's not that woman are my only source of happiness, but happy couples seem to be everywhere, and try as i might, this always feels out of reach for me. So i envy everyone else who has it so easy. I feel like a type-I diabetic working in a sweet shop.
It's a bitter pill to swallow, but i'm trying to adjust my mindset to accept this, to be more assertive and ruthless with others. To cheat and manipulate others when need be, and to solve my victim mentality and bitterness mindset.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the rant-ish response. >_<
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Ryan » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:26 pm

PrettyDecent wrote:I've seen this re-occurring theme happening on the boards. It's understandable, but it's harmful, so here are some thoughts:

It's one thing to be frustrated about not getting results fast enough, and it's another to say you've "made it" and now the world owes you compensation. One leads you to work on yourself very, very efficiently and fast, and the other gives you extremely small increments of growth spread between lengthy periods of victim mentality.

If you deliberately improve three weaknesses every time you go out, and you go out ~3 times a week, you'll see steady improvement (provided you legitimately push yourself out of your comfort zone). You'll see progress like no other; the farther you push yourself, the faster you see results.

An aside, an anecdotal allegory of what I saw when I first read this post: An enthusiastic, but skinny and lanky, man buys himself a new gym membership. Our man attends to the gym two or three times a week, and he's seen some steady improvement. Awesome! A month or two in, he glimpses the burly men beside him lifting 250 lb. on a bench press. This new lad wants the body just like these men do, too! So he goes straight from 100 lb. to 250 lb., and he struggles to even lift the bar; let alone squeeze 10 more reps. Angry and cynical about his current strength, he drives straight home. "I've been going to the gym every week!", he thinks. "Most of the time two or three times a week!! Why can't I just have strength like those burly men NOW?!!"


Well, our answer is that he is improving. Probably well, too. But there's no denying that our young man in the story has more things to learn about nutrition, form, and fitness in general to keep improving. He simply needs to put in his time.

And speaking of time...have y'all seen Determined's journal? That dude started his journal in March! He just got his first lay three weeks ago, and now has a steady stream of LR-'s coming in. Or take Marty, he'll claim that he has a slow learning rate, but he's improving fast; now getting dates more and more often (he started in June). Or even me; I also started back in March and it took me 6 months to get a date off cold approach! Dude, 6 months of rejection, 0% text-to-date conversion. But I finally broke the barrier after 6 months and I've had 15+ physical escalations since then.

Everybody has a different time for their learning curve. The lower you started with fundamentals, the longer time until your 'good'. Zphix/Tool took 3 months, and Determined and I are still catching up, even after 9+ months. I know if I didn't have victim mentality for part of that time, I'd be a solid 3-4 months ahead in terms of progress.

Don't let victim mentality slow you down. Learning seduction is a long, dark tunnel, but you just got to bolt into it, and eventually you'll see the light on the other side. And it's not done through ranting on a forum, or complaining to yourself. The fastest route is to learn, implement, and relearn as much as humanly possible. And luckily, your surrounded by men who've rode this path before. And they spend time here specifically to help you learn and provide value.

You could be using your time right now to improve one of your weaknesses. :)

~Nick


Thanks a lot for replying Nick. But for the first time, I think i disagree with you. I think you confuse bitterness with overly-high expectations/impatience.

Referring to your allegory, i understand what you're saying but i don't think it's the same. As most guys out there don't even work on their fundamentals to the degree we do, as well as their verbal abilities with women. Most are just happy-go-lucky with their lives, focusing on work, with their friends, and all the other things 'normal' guys do. And then sometime during college or university, they suddenly find themselves with a girlfriend, after just going to the right social, or party. They had the bravery to kiss her, and now they live happily every after.

Relating to what you said, it's like I've been lifting weights for 5 months.
Sure, my technique in lifting weights has improved, but bizarrely, still no muscle or strength gain.
Maybe it's my diet, maybe it's my rests, maybe it's my frequency of lifting that needs improving too. What seemed so simple is now a really complicated science of its own, which I have a greater understanding than almost everyone after relentlessly studying. But alas, I have nothing to show for it. I'm still thin, there must be some other factor out there I'm missing.

And then walk in some massive, muscular men. Each dumbbell curling 100kg with each arm with terrible form (but who cares? They're already massive). All laughing together because they all were skinny last week, but just happen to stumble across a stash of side-effect free steroids at their friends party or social gathering. And all they required was the courage to take them. Now they're all proudly lifting and laughing in front of you, everyday you go to the gym.

You would feel a bit jealous/bitter, no?
Age: 19
'A Smooth Sea Never Made A Skilled Sailor'
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Prehistoric » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:50 pm

Ryan wrote:
PrehistoricMan wrote:I think that you're approaching this whole women issue from the wrong perspective.

I am not a pick up champion, I just very recently started to read about women&dating and use material like the one available on this website. at almost 27 I have only slept with 4 women, but I have avoided developing angry and/or bitter feelings towards women because I see things this way:

I a man with his own life, his own interests, his own goals, his friends, his hobbies, his will to live
and then there are women, an additional entertainment that might in some cases turn into something deeper.

Women are not the thing that determines my being happy or not. Certainly I feel good after having slept with a woman, but I know how to have fun and be happy even when there are no women around me. That is why, when I get rejected, especially when going out with male buddies I just laugh about it with my friends, don't make a big deal out of it and keep on trying.

For example: last friday I went to this very very full folklore music club (I live in Europe) with 2 friends. We drank, had fun, laughed and basically tried to pick up every single woman in the club and laughing at every rejection.

Result? 65% didn't speak with me, 20% spoke to me coldly and for a short time, 10% spoke to me warmly, 4% spoke to me very warmly and danced with me, and I made out only with one, but she didn't want to go home with me.

Did I get bitter towards women? No. After all I tried, I got small results, I have now a lot of additional direct-experience material to think about and improve myself next time. Most importantly I had fun.

All these women I approached forgot about me, I am nothing special to them.
I forgot about them, they're nothing special to me.
Me and my buddies got even more buddies.

And life goes on.


That's not really the same though.

I can't speak for everyone, but I get absolutely NO results with women on most of my outings. And these interactions involve a lot of effort which exhaust me mentally and physically. And most of these rejections aren't polite, but usually involve ignoring me or using her facial expressions to show she's clearly not interested.

That's not what makes me bitter. It certainly makes me disappointed and question my attractiveness. But that's a good thing, as it's motivation to continue building upon my fundamentals.

What made me bitter is that I am almost certainly doing far more than any other man in perhaps my whole country to improve his skills with women (going out everyday and cold-approaching), and yet I am surrounded with couples everyday, with girls i could only dream of.
Did they put in as much work into improving their fundamentals and 'game' with women as I did? The majority of them probably did not. They were lucky enough to be raised in the right environment (e.g. mixed-sex school) to have confidence with women, or lucky enough to bump into the right kind of woman at the right time.
I look at these happy, loving couples kissing and holding hands, and think 'why do i even bother? 'Why should I spend so much time working for women when they never reciprocate or appreciate what i do for them?'. Who knows what i could have achieved if i put all that energy into other worthy pursuits.

As you can see, what makes me bitter, is that life is not fair. It's not that woman are my only source of happiness, but happy couples seem to be everywhere, and try as i might, this always feels out of reach for me. So i envy everyone else who has it so easy. I feel like a type-I diabetic working in a sweet shop.
It's a bitter pill to swallow, but i'm trying to adjust my mindset to accept this, to be more assertive and ruthless with others. To cheat and manipulate others when need be, and to solve my victim mentality and bitterness mindset.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the rant-ish response. >_<


no need to apologize :)

and believe me, I can perfectly understand your reasoning and why you get to such conclusions.

just a couple of thoughts. (for the record, I am not lecturing anyone, just saying out loud what I think :D)

-Life is not fair. Very true statement. It's something we all deal with. For some people life is not fair because of the state of their relationship with the opposite sex compared to people who have it easy. For some people life is not fair because they get some health problems others don't get. For some people life is not fair because they are born in very poor places as opposed to people that are born in rich countries.

Now, I am sure each one of us has at least one aspect of their life were they feel simply unlucky. For example I had (actually I still do) a very very bad relationship with my father and I still remember myself at the age of 12 crying because I saw my friends having wonderful relationships with their dads and feeling envy and jealous. Much more jealous than when I see a girl I like with another guy. I felt authentic pain. You can keep on trying getting girls, but if you weren't blessed with a good dad (or mom) you'll never have the chance to experience what it means. At 27 I still feel a lot of bitterness for this issue.

I think each of one has to deal with those aspects of life we were not so fortunate in and do whatever we can do about it, even if results take time and effort to get.

- I do not think all these happy couple are actually so happy as it seems. As a guy who's often been single I have often found myself seeing many of my male friends had their lives completely screwed by females, how some ended up marrying them, making children, to discover only later she was a psychopathic freak. I mean, they were literally living in nightmares. And most of them have settled for a quick fix because they're afraid and scared to do what we do: get out there and improving, never giving up.

- I know many guys, like you, that put a lot of effort in this issue. I myself try to work on this issue while at the same time not putting too much expectations and seeing it as something that "I do together with many other things". I go out, I drink, I meet with my friends, we have some laughter, I meet with new males and get to know them, I talk with some girls with no pick-up intention and then I try to pick up other girls (only recently by planning it and reading articles, before I was doing that just "as it came"). This makes your evening much more pleasant, even if you don't end up with results. That's my way. I am not judging those who commit themselves with discipline to the pick-up activity.

I know everybody is different and facing different issue, I only hope I helped a bit :)
You can stand me up at the gates of hell but I won't back down.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby PrettyDecent » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:00 pm

Ryan,

The thing about bitterness is that it's victim mentality; they are one in the same. You have to deal with it the same way: shutting down those thoughts, and replacing them with constructive thoughts. We could go into fine details all day, but you're situation will never significantly improve if you don't fix the root cause.

It's also important to remember that no man is born adept with women. The men you see on the streets with the most 'gorgeous women' have put years into learning...behind closed curtains, and since they were 13-14 years old. You've been working on yourself for 5 months and these men have been working on themselves for 4+ years. The difference is that you're taking a different learning approach, not that you're taking a shortcut.

But this is for sure - it's substantially easier to rid yourself of bitterness if you're getting some degree of results, or you feel like your improving somehow. You need to get progress to your next goal ASAP (getting that first date, by what I can see! ;). Constantly approach and troubleshoot your interactions, and stay focused on reaching your next target.

~Nick
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Smurf » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:12 pm

My advice? Put the blinders on up to those other men.

Like Nick said, you have no clue how much work they've put into this compared to what you have. You can't possibly know. Just worry about yourself and your own progress as a sexy man.

Also, when you get bitter, try converting that energy into your walk, your vibe, everything. Whenever I feel down, I immediately think about what I'm working for and straighten my shoulders back, chin up and up my vibe.

It's all in your attitude.

Jake.
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Erasing myself and creating my image anew.
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Re: How to Not Be Bitter?

Postby Franco » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:19 pm

PrettyDecent wrote:It's also important to remember that no man is born adept with women. The men you see on the streets with the most 'gorgeous women' have put years into learning...behind closed curtains, and since they were 13-14 years old.


To add on to PD's comment, it's important to remember that some guys have just gone out and "socialized" with women since an early age. I have friends who go out all the time to bars just to hang out and have a few drinks, and in the meantime, they are talking to women here and there. Some of them are consciously trying to hit on them, and others are unconsciously doing it. Regardless, they are going out every weekend and being around (attractive) women. If you have very little social experience with women as it is (disregarding experience trying to bed them and take them as girlfriends), then you're naturally going to have a steeper hill to climb to get where you want to be.

I've mentioned this on the boards before, but my background was very different from Chase's. I've been social with women since I was a kid; I was on sports teams in school where I interacted with female athletes; in college, I threw my own house parties where I bought booze for everyone to drink (and my social value skyrocketed because of things like this); after college, I went to bars/clubs/beach parties and socialized with very attractive women. I didn't have nearly as much success as I would have liked to have had, but it's mostly because I didn't know back then what I know about women now!

So when I came to this website, I was able to grasp many of the concepts very quickly because I had technically been "out in the field" for most of my life! But if that's not you, then it's going to take a lot of time, patience, and determination to get where you want to be. As Nick mentioned, determined's journal is a good topic to see what it takes to start from the very beginning. Just don't lose sight of the goal, and remember that every failure means you are getting a little more experience and a little bit better!

- Franco
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Different Perspective and Being Honest

Postby Just_Dave » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:07 pm

Throwing in my two cents

Response to not be bitter:
To add to what everyone is saying but in a different light and to answer the initial question, staying on topic, and giving something new let me say this . . . look at everything in life as a challenge and don't let it get under your skin. Consider it like a test, you're either going to prepare for it and study or you're just going to go in blindly. Failing to plan is ultimately planning to fail, when you do fail though . . . think about to your response to that failure. Your either going to cry about it or work harder for the next test. You can't get mad at the people who did whatever they did to pass, ultimately your the one in class who receives their own grade.

Rather use the negative energy you would feel from being bitter and use it to better yourself. Ultimately, being bitter can be looked at as quitting and just throwing in the towel then complaining about it. It's okay to be down, but someone who truly wants something out of life won't sit around and mope about it. You have to get up and get it, you can't spend your time worrying about other people. You need to worry about yourself and find a way to get up to the top yourself.

Trust me if getting women were easy everyone would have their dream girl. The thing about earning something and getting it is looking back to see how far you've truly come. We all started from somewhere like many others in this topic have mentioned. However, you can not let your disappointment consume you and drive you nuts. Be honest with yourself are you really working that hard for the results you want? Only you know what you're doing, I'm not here to judge rather to enlighten.

What women do:
Women use a lot of things... reading maxim, watching Girl Code and Guy Code, make up, work out, go shopping, do there hair, etc... to look special to that one guy who hasn't noticed them or too that guy who hasn't sacked up to talk to them. They constantly spaz out trying to figure out what we're thinking. Women write songs, watch movies, novels, and whatever else because they want that prince charming. Truth be told not every woman is nice, and every guy isn't either. It's all about dealing with the right people and screening for the ones you want to have around you.

Attitude:
You gotta have the right attitude when talking to women and dealing with people in life. You want to leave them with a good genuine feeling with sincerity. Women are really attracted to a guy's personality. They want someone who can brighten up their day or heat up their bed. ;)
I know a lot of girls who are looking for that and they're always saying the men are in short notice. Learn to love women and look to better understand them. It all comes with time and it's not an overnight thing either. Practice whenever you can and get to know the girl, girls complain often how men rush towards sex but don't try to establish a good connection first. Women love sex and are more than happy to give it, if you show and act like you want them.

Another time,

Just Dave
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