How do you analyze a failed date?

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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798
Hi guys,
Hoping for some help here...

Something I've faced a few times over the last year is that I meet a girl I genuinely like, I'm open to dating them but somewhere between 2 and 4 dates they flake.
They will literally vanish off the face of the earth or if I'm lucky I'll get the courtesy of a text saying "Thanks for everything, you're great but I don't see it working out".

I have to preface this with saying that the terms of us meeting and our interactions had me more in the boyfriend potential zone than hookup zone. And just speaking on a few girls in particular I was ok with that.
I felt I did the right things, I felt the dates went well and often they'd follow up right away saying they wanted to see me again after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd date or whatever... but somewhere after that point they are gone.

Now I know the obvious thing guys will say is I didn't move fast enough. I'm experienced with placing myself in the "lover" role over this year and I have moved fast at times to make this happen but if I see something in a girl I like, I've been ok with falling into the boyfriend role.
I have experimented with various approaches... from bedding them on the first date to being "more of a gentleman" and not pushing fast enough. And everywhere in between.
If I pushed it faster the likelihood is I will see them again but they will flake after that. If I don't push it fast, I've had mixed results on another date but generally I will see them... the cliff is 3-4 dates. The girls just vanish.

On the face of it... I felt like the dates went well. I can't pinpoint anything that went wrong or where I messed up. Yet the results were the same, the girls are gone.

I'm trying to analyze it. I don't quite understand. Even in years gone by when I knew nothing about this stuff and was probably awkward and shy and scrambling for things to say and too shy to touch or kiss a girl, as long as I got 3-4 dates well then I never had a problem making them my girlfriend for a time at least... if she's still seeing me at that point she has got to like me, as terribly awkward and shy as I was back then... but now... it just doesn't happen.

I feel like this is playing on my mind and want to figure it out. I'm not so sure what I'm doing that is not right.
 

Franco

Tribal Elder
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Estate,

When you say you have "moved fast," I'm assuming you meant that you slept with these women, correct? Because when you say...

If I pushed it faster the likelihood is I will see them again but they will flake after that.

...that shouldn't be happening often at all unless there is a serious flaw in your vibe after sex. You might want to review what it might be that is causing girls to flake after you take them to bed for the first time. Girls pretty much never flake on me after I take them to bed, so just getting the deed done should be 95% of the work for you. There's another thing I would keep in mind, in relation to this following statement:

if I see something in a girl I like, I've been ok with falling into the boyfriend role.

You should be doing everything against your power to "let yourself" fall into this role. I consider falling into the boyfriend role an "initial" failure, and it means that I just have to put in a lot of extra work (as well as have some extra luck) to bed the girl and actually make her my girlfriend (or casual lover). Remember, when Chase refers to the "boyfriend" role, he's not saying that you're on track to becoming her boyfriend. It means that she sees you as boyfriend material, which is bad news because it's going to be more difficult to sleep with her, and if you don't do it within a reasonably short amount of time, then she'll either look for someone more exciting who moves faster and beds her (and she'll eventually try to make that guy her boyfriend), or she'll feel that you're too safe to sleep with and lose forever; in this scenario, she'll keep contacting you and stringing you along but never give you any type of sexual or committed relationship.

Anyway, these are some things to keep in mind, but I would review your interactions with girls that you bedded quickly and then they flaked after that. It shouldn't be something that is too common if you're handling your vibe correctly.

Hope this helps!

- Franco
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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798
Hi Franco,
I'll try to clarify some of the things you asked...

When I say moving fast, then yes, I mean sleeping with them.
Here is my experience over the past year at least. Sleeping with a girl on date 1 is completely possible, I use all I've learned and can make it happen. But speaking in the majority, if a girl sleeps with me on the first date then she may react positiviely the next day and tell me how amazing it was but as the days pass she begins to loose the "high" and seems to begin to regret it and eventually fades away. At least thats what I feel... when the reality hits after a few days back in "real life" they either vanish or have sometimes said it upfront to me that they have thought about it and now feel it went too fast or whatever.

I believe I followed the 4-5 steps outlined by Chase very well but this has been my experience.
So generally if I don't see the girl being girlfriend potential but I still like her, I'll go for the same night lay.

Because of the above, I've held back from sleeping with girls on the first night if I see potential in them.
If I sleep with them on around 3-5 dates then usually I don't have a problem following up with them, it goes smoothly... but here is the next problem with that:
Even though the possibility of the lay wasn't on for dates 1,2 or 3.... they THEN start going stale and make their excuses despite initially being VERY into it after the previous date.

The last one of these girls for example, after date 3, we didn't sleep together as we were on the town but we were touching a lot, smiling laughing and some serious making out... immediately the next day she text asking when we could go out again... when I followed up to set another time to meet her... she didn't respond for a day and then made her excuses that "it wouldn't work"... this one just baffled me... but other situations have been similar... after initially appearing to LOVE it... they go a little cold the following day and then vanish.

In terms of the speed I moved... as I said, I experimented...
If I hardly make it to kissing by 3 dates then obviously I'm going too slow and it won't go anywhere... I got this.
If I sleep with her on the first night, it won't go any further in general...
If I hit the sweetspot SOMEWHERE in between it feels like it can go somewhere but it's difficult to pinpoint with individual girls.

I'm talking about a certain calibre of girl here. I mean I could just pickup a 5,6,7 in a bar, take her home, give her a great night and she'd probably want more and more but I am not interested in that, I'm talking, 8,9,10's...
Even though I feel like we are SUPPOSED to treat all girls the same and not put them on a pedastil by admitting they are a 10... I just have different experiences with girls who are USED to being able to get with high calibre guys.
 

Good Vibes

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Estate said:
...they either vanish or have sometimes said it upfront to me that they have thought about it and now feel it went too fast or whatever.
A girl will say "it happened too fast" because she doesn't want to sound like a slut or that she regularly has ONS's. What's happenning is she's responding to the way you have set the frame/treated her.
A woman will feel you were just looking for a ONS if you skip steps in your seduction and bed her too quickly without building a deep enough connection beforehand. I suggest you bed them as fast as possible but if it feels like it happened too quick and if you want to see her again, then after sex you have to build that emotional connection before she's leaves your house.
The same as a good salesperson should quickly summarize the benefits the customer will receive after they own the product or service they've just bought so they won't cool off and cancel the sale after you leave the house.

So depending on your intentions with her;
One night stand = Attempt an emotional connection before sex
Short Relationship = Must have an emotional connection before or after sex and before she leaves
Long Relationship = Must have an emotional connection before or after sex and before she leaves

Think of yourself as the product and service she's buying, she may take you quickly before you feel as if you've done everything you need to do to sell yourself to her but you still have to show why it was a good decision for her afterwards.
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
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Well let's assume there was a lot of connection building. That all went weel during the date which led her to be comfortable and even enticed to want it to happen....

... yet the same result?

I mean, initially they are all over it. Texts the next day after we part ways telling me how amazing the entire date was, asking to see me again, literally being told it was the most amazing sex she's ever had....
But within a few days reality hits and she goes cold... back in the real world, no matter what, she now feels slutty... if I try to meet her again her assumption is it must be for sex, whether I set the frame as that or something else.

This is where its not adding up for me... I get the theory but is it just theory or based on experience?
More girls than not will not feel good about sleeping with a guy on the first date in the following days, it takes some mighty work to convince her it was ok and we should meet again while not being "that type of guy". That's the reality I'm seeing. Not all girls are sluts.
 

Good Vibes

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Estate said:
... back in the real world, no matter what, she now feels slutty... if I try to meet her again her assumption is it must be for sex, whether I set the frame as that or something else.
Is that her assumption or yours. (rhetorical)

Estate said:
More girls than not will not feel good about sleeping with a guy on the first date in the following days, it takes some mighty work to convince her it was ok and we should meet again while not being "that type of guy". That's the reality I'm seeing. Not all girls are sluts.
I'd say almost all girls are not sluts but will sleep with what they discribe as the right guy on the first date.

Are your deep diving skills really as good as it can be?

How long is your face to face time on the dates before you take her home?

Are you kicking them out of your place too soon after sex or are you building an emotional connection before they go home (as I mentioned in my previous post)?

Has this happened with just a few girls or has there been lots like this for you?
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
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So on deep diving. I've gotten good with this but it does depend on the girl a little. If a girl is slow to open up this is difficult but if I got her home the first night then usually it will have gone very well and they'll be complimenting me on my personality, even saying I seem different from the "usual" guys.

If I bring a girl a really like back, then I'll estimate a date of average 3-4 hours... it is usu

allly a nightitme date so depends what we do.

If I like her I don't rush them out. I like to talk to them in the morning, I'd usually just start cooking breakfast and ask them if they like some. Not make an affair of it but its what I usually do and offer them to join me too.
Quite often they'll live within a few miles and I'll drop them home, not point them to the bus stop.

As I said, usually they text me that day on a high from it all but as a few days pass, they seem to begin to feel bad about it.


The other side of the coin is when I move a little slower, I.e. we touch, we kiss, we connect but I have tried not pushing for sex until a few dates in... I've had a few fllakes like this too...
For logistics and other reasons sex wasn't on anyway and they seemed keen, even asking to meet again right away but soon after changing their mind without anything really happening to cause it inbetween except their own thoughts.... this confuses me.
 

Franco

Tribal Elder
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Estate,

The other side of the coin is when I move a little slower, I.e. we touch, we kiss, we connect but I have tried not pushing for sex until a few dates in... I've had a few fllakes like this too...
For logistics and other reasons sex wasn't on anyway and they seemed keen, even asking to meet again right away but soon after changing their mind without anything really happening to cause it inbetween except their own thoughts.... this confuses me.

This makes sense to me, and this happens. This is also why you should try to get to sex as early as possible -- every date that goes by without sex is an opportunity for life to hit her on the noggin and turn her attention elsewhere. However, this...

If I like her I don't rush them out. I like to talk to them in the morning, I'd usually just start cooking breakfast and ask them if they like some. Not make an affair of it but its what I usually do and offer them to join me too.
Quite often they'll live within a few miles and I'll drop them home, not point them to the bus stop.

As I said, usually they text me that day on a high from it all but as a few days pass, they seem to begin to feel bad about it.

...does not make sense to me. Something is amiss here.

In general, you want to "up" the warmth the next morning, especially if you two have breakfast together. There should be plenty of laughing, touching, and smiling (especially if you want to keep the girl around for more than one night). If she even slightly feels like picking up random girls on the weekend, bringing them back home, fucking them, and then sending them on their way the next morning is something you "just do," then she might have second thoughts over the course of the next few days as to whether or not she should see you again. She might believe you are just looking for a quick way to get your rocks off.

You might think that you are providing enough warmth after sex, but the indicators are pointing elsewhere. From the information you have given me, this is my opinion.

This is where its not adding up for me... I get the theory but is it just theory or based on experience?

Chase told me a few weeks ago that he "hadn't been on a second date in years." Yet he has certainly had multiple (mostly casual) relationships in that time period. I think that speaks for itself. =)

- Franco
 

Good Vibes

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Estate, apart from the fact that day time pick ups with give you a better quality women than at nightclubs if that's where you're finding them, I get the feeling that this question below will led you to your answer.

Good Vibes said:
Has this happened with just a few girls or has there been lots like this for you?
If it's only happened to less than about 20 girls then it could be a coincident more than a noticeable pattern that your experiencing.
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
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Thanks for the feedback guys... I need to try and break this down for myself.

I agree Franco and about moving faster... before I learned all this I'd take a girl to bed around 3-5 dates, that always worked for me.
Since learning this and getting better I can much more easily do it in 1-2, it's just that because I've not been able to make a girl I really like into anything more than a quick fling or a one nighter, I recently began to stretch it out again a little more if I REALLY thought I was interested in this girl more than just bedding her... if I just want to bed her I'll move just as fast.

I'm not sure if that's right or not, it's only because I felt I was loosing girls I wanted over the long term by bedding them right away I began to hold back.
 

lux7

Cro-Magnon Man
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Franco said:
Chase told me a few weeks ago that he "hadn't been on a second date in years." Yet he has certainly had multiple (mostly casual) relationships in that time period. I think that speaks for itself. =)

- Franco

Yes, but maybe the relationships he got where only a tiny percentage of his overall dates/experiences.
Also I think the OP wasn't looking for a casual relationship.

Like for the OP, I've experienced the loss of the girl after a quick bedding, but then again mostly I wasn't interested in the relationship so it's a different story.

Just adding my perspective.
 

PinotNoir

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I have to agree with Franco here. However, it depends on a lot... the girl, the date, the sex, the culture, the girl's culture/background/experience, the amount of alcohol, the venue where you met (at bookstore vs. at the club), etc.

But, if you're having sex with women on the first or second date, it's hard for me to believe that they're turning so cold so fast.

Try following this after the date if you're not:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/3-second-date-strategies-make-her-flirt-and-swoon

I think the "devil is in the details." Write a very detailed field report about one of these instances. Everything from the approach to the conversation to the next morning to the end. I'm sure the guys here will read it. Or, if it happens again in the future, write it then.
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
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Does it just come down to the "type of girl"?

Look, I'll be honest... there are girls I can pick up, take home, wave goodbye in the morning and not have a care in the world.... ad she'll call... and call...
But these are not girls I want... they are 6's and 7's...
I've met these girls while learning the ropes.
If she's a "club" type... if she's down, she's down... keep it casual and she'll come back for more.

But there are the "nice" girls for lack of a better term who are genuine girlfriend material. The type of girl who genuinely will say she won't sleep with a guy on the first date and probably mean it.
I just find bedding these girls too quick gives them a guilt trip and they just find putting it down to a "moment" or a boozy night or whatever and then moving on and forgetting it ever happened is easier for them.
It's like when you drik too much some night and do something stupid... it's easier to sleep it off for a day and put it down to a bad night of drink and forget it happened rather than get up the next morning and face everyone you acted silly around.

I mean... I could be totally wrong...

But I can't believe that EVERY girl will sleep with a guy on the first date if he has enough game and that EVERY girl will just want more and more without any feeling of guilt for sleeping with a guy so early... it just hasn't been my experience.
I know you guys are probably more experienced but it seems you guys are looking at girls who you know you just want a short term thing with... I'm coming at it from a different angle... if I REALLY see something in her, I was looking to see her as potential girlfriend material and this strategy just isn't working for me for some reason.
 

girlsfollow

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Estate said:
Does it just come down to the "type of girl"?

Look, I'll be honest... there are girls I can pick up, take home, wave goodbye in the morning and not have a care in the world.... ad she'll call... and call...
But these are not girls I want... they are 6's and 7's...
I've met these girls while learning the ropes.
If she's a "club" type... if she's down, she's down... keep it casual and she'll come back for more.

But there are the "nice" girls for lack of a better term who are genuine girlfriend material. The type of girl who genuinely will say she won't sleep with a guy on the first date and probably mean it.
I just find bedding these girls too quick gives them a guilt trip and they just find putting it down to a "moment" or a boozy night or whatever and then moving on and forgetting it ever happened is easier for them.
It's like when you drik too much some night and do something stupid... it's easier to sleep it off for a day and put it down to a bad night of drink and forget it happened rather than get up the next morning and face everyone you acted silly around.

I mean... I could be totally wrong...

But I can't believe that EVERY girl will sleep with a guy on the first date if he has enough game and that EVERY girl will just want more and more without any feeling of guilt for sleeping with a guy so early... it just hasn't been my experience.
I know you guys are probably more experienced but it seems you guys are looking at girls who you know you just want a short term thing with... I'm coming at it from a different angle... if I REALLY see something in her, I was looking to see her as potential girlfriend material and this strategy just isn't working for me for some reason.
I didn't read the whole thread - but did you actually sleep with these supposed "good" girls? Early or late....

I think you might be onto something with the "good" girl idea - BUT its still very much the best strategy to persist in leading towards sex with all girls - maybe a little less persistance with some, but in general strong leadership is needed and I still agree that the aim of the leadership should be sex asap but only if you have prepared her for it adequately - she should be doing some of the chasing for sex and you need to coax that out of her - THAT is the part to always work on....
 
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