I'm a mess. Please, help!

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
First, excuse my language mistakes, english is not my first language.

My story may be quite pathetic to You, so please, show me some good heart.

I'm handsome but I'm a virgin. And I'm almost 32. I look young, though, maybe like 25. I'm quite inteligent and talended, have many interests, my first romantic kiss was at age 7! So, What went wrong? Social anxiety is a bitch! I have always been able to suggest to my friends that I was good with women. At partys when I was, of course, really drunk, I was the king of the floor because of my natural dancing skills, and all women liked it. Few times I got alone with a girl after party but wasn't able to do anything.
My sober life was even worse. I quit studies, had no job for long time. I was ashamed by myself that I haven't been with a girl. (At age 20 I kissed a girl few times in one day, then she dumped me, well, actually she just didn't make a relationship with me, but of course I thought, she was my girlfriend.
At age 27 if I recall, I decided to get the job I want even without formal education. And I made it. I lasted in this job for 3 months, then I quit because of social anxiety. Then, a year after this I found another job, even better, and this is when the main part of the story goes.

Some day after agonizing pain due to social anxiety at work, I realized, that I actually have social anxiety! Started some research on the internet and decided to work it out. So, it got better a little. I had been driving to work by the bus, because of course, I wasn't able to get the driving licence in the past (guess why). I asked a girl at my work to give me a ride until I get the license. She wasn't that beautiful but, well, I know she liked me because of my looks, so I was sure I will get her -only us two in a car, no need to manage other people. She had a boyfriend but It didn't bother me - I knew she would want me.

Long story short - Some day she gives me nonverbal suggestion by using her phone that she is done with her boyfriend. She is ready for getting kiss from me. I see that very clearly. I do nothing. She even gives me another chance by stopping a car in different place. Same result.
Next day she textes me quite long, asking how my driving exam went.
Now, we are going to work in her car and she says to me in the conversation,that she has a boyfriend but it's nothing sure, it could end some day.

Of course I had a big crush on her, let her manipulate me because she saw that I "love" her.

Couple months later, when I was obsessed with the girl, I discoverd some rsd materials on the intenet. I started to learn. She was into me back again because I was more relaxed.

Then she quit the job, I was quite unhappy with that, but quickly started to looking for something new.

Then the new girl came to work. I thought she is nice mating material. I knew from the start she has a fiance, but decided to work it out.

The girl quickly started to gaming me! I knew I was getting better, however I didn't want to get into something serious with her because I could find nicer lookin girls on the street. But still, I wanted to execise on her first. She was really nice girl! Intelignet and quite stiff at first. I really liked her. And I wasn't studdying the game anymore.

I dont want to bore You with details but some day it was clearly obvious that she waited for me to talk to her. I ignored her due to my "strategy". She even wore elegant clothes for me. Shit, I was so stupid. She ignored me too when i wanted to say goodbye after work.

Next day I saw that her boyfriend dropped her to work. I was so confused, I thougth she wanted to "show me". Of course i was ignoring her due to my stupidity and fear of not knowing what to say and when to kiss her. After work I saw flowers on the mask of her car - she was ready to dump her boyfriend for me.
I was crushed. She was so nice to me and I treated her like that. And she could be my first real girlfriend.

I kept my strategy with her. She seemed to game me still but we talked less and less. I couldnt make a move.
It's been a whole year after we first met. She is still nice to me. Or, is she?

Now - she is on vacation. I ask her colleague when she will be back - "she won't, maybe until next year - she's pregnant"

I was crushed again - she waited so long for me to make a move, she decided to "show me" by getting pregnant and not saying anything about it. Not even to me, to almost everybody in the office!

So, today I'm alone, without her, knowing that i probably won't see her anymore. Completely heartbroken and regreting those many, many oportunities. I was hurting her, she is so nice girl, I have tears in my eyes writing that.

I am really on the edge. She was great long term partner material, but no, I was a player, right?

If You have something to write, please write, I don't want to feel like this, this is unbearable!!!
 

naturalmikey

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
815
you sound like you have ptsd. i do too it's not the end of the world. actually most men who get into this stuff do. sometimes you just have to face your fears. getting girls isn't gonna fix you, but in my opinion it helps you get to a place where you're ready to look at yourself. i have improved steadily from therapy, approaching, and psychadelic drugs. you may not be in a state where you can handle psychadelic drugs though, so i wouldn't do that until you start looking in yourself.

here's something that some people might not agree with, but if you're really in pain you're probably willing to try something radical. be open and honest with yourself and find the points in your childhood where you felt undeserving of love. try to pinpoint what it is that makes you feel like you don't deserve love. cry about it and try to let it go. human suffering comes from attachment. until you can let go of the negative emotions your holding onto and process them in a healthy way these negative emotions will continue to hold you back.

i'll tell you right now you are deserving of love. but until you can love yourself you won't be able to receive the love you desire.

as far as the woman part, be careful. you will probably fall for the first girl that you sleep with. there are a lot of growing pains with women. breakups are hard. being rejected is hard. but life in general is hard. it sounds like you're not living. at some point you have to make a decision. is it more painful to go on experiencing your existance or is it more painful to open yourself up to being loved and also hurt.

remember women don't go through what you're going through. they have a lot of options. they will never love you the same way you love them. the feelings of a breakup are easily replaced with good feelings of a new relationship. that is why girls are never single when they're young. they can move from guy to guy. this is why it is very important for you to establish an abundance with women.

if you're as good looking as you say i would spam approach the least attractive fucakble girls you see. just talk and escalate. some will make it really easy for you. get experience doing this until you're more comfortable with the girls you really like. this is not gonna be an easy journey. but it sounds like your journey hasn't been easy to begin with.
 

naturalmikey

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
815
also you may have low testosterone. get bloodwork done. if you do you can get prescribed testosterone.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
#naturalmikey

Thank You for the answer. I don't know if I have ptsd. Besides trauma caused by social anxiety I can't find traumatic event. Probably in the past I had a few and people laughed at me or something, and that is the cause of SA. For ptsd, maybe my parents who where angry because I was cuddling and kissing my cousin at very young age, or my father reproving that I told my sister that somebody have lauged at me that I'm having sex with someone, I was maybe 10 then. I sometimes would like to hug my mom but somehow I can't. I don't like to kiss casually any person who is not my sexual interest. I just feel embarassed.

And I'm not low in testosterone. Actually I'm in good shape and working out. Not in the last few days though, because of what I wrote. I have no apetite at all now.

I'm very sensitive person, I mean, artistic type. Weed has been always antisocial and paranoidal for me. I don't smoke it anymore unless I'm very drunk. I tried some mushrooms couple of times but if I would do that now, I would end up in psychiatric hospital, I think. But yes, mushrooms are very "cleansing" if you can let go on them.
 

naturalmikey

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
815
it can come from just not feeling loved. if you're a virgin at your age i find it hard to imagine that you don't have ptsd. and also just because you are in good shape doesn't mean you don't have low testosterone. women have very low testosterone and can still build considerable muscle if that's their goal.

where do you live? you should try to find a wing. someone to hold each other accountable.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
I edited my last post.

I have never felt unloved. I don't know now. My parents defenitely love me. Sorry, this is my last post today. It's 22:00 here and I'm so tired and confused now. Thank You very much for giving me atention. I will check the forum tommorow.
 

zappbrannigan

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
129
Hey man,

I know where you're coming from. I'm a 35 year old virgin as well. When I started this journey about a year ago I was a total weakling and loser. I've been on dates since, and cold approached women on the street (not much luck actually getting women that way yet, but it's great for your confidence). Just five minutes ago I got a phone call from a married woman telling me she missed me(!). I fully intend to have sex with her.

So, start with your self-confidence. An easy way to do this (I've found) is to start with self-respect:

  • Stop watching porn immediately. Seriously, this is terrible for your self-image. It will take months before you will feel more like a human being again. Some people also advocate not masturbating, but I find that that actually is good for my sex drive (in moderation), as long as I don't do it to any mental porn images. Enjoy your own body for what it is. If you have women in your life you fancy, you might experiment with fantasizing about them, but I'd avoid that too, for now.
  • Avoid drugs and booze. Those are numbing agents. They make you forget your troubles instead of facing them and struggling through them.
  • Eat healthy. No more easy pizza nights.
  • Work out
  • Practice a good posture
  • Dress and groom well. Keep your home and body tidy. Don't be a slob, respect yourself!
  • Treat your time as if it were valuable. That means, no favours for people you don't care about, no random scrolling through endless social media streams or playing computer games. Reading is fine, if it is something you learn from. Watching TV should be kept to a minimum as well.
  • Don't allow yourself to be treated badly. If someone does something that crosses a line, speak up.
  • Similarly, don't allow yourself to "fall in love". Seriously, that shit is for women. If you give away all your power, the woman won't respect you and you will not even get her in the first place, or otherwise lose her soon enough after.
  • In social situations, try to participate and "bring value" by offering insights, being funny etc.

Yes, you can afford some leasure time, but focus on self-improvement first. Then when you feel up to it (but don't postpone too long) you can start cold approaching. Also do other things that scare you. The goal is to utterly destroy your comfort zone (aim high, and don't beat yourself up too much if you fall short).

I also keep a daily journal noting down my emotional state and things of interest. I'm currently focusing hard on body language and notice many more women are into me than I ever gave myself credit for. I find it also helps to review the journal on a weekly basis and making a short bullet-point list of positive, negative and otherwise noteworthy things. This helps to insulate yourself against the inevitable daily ups and downs. There have been weeks where I was feeling like shit on Sunday and then I made the list and it would have 14 items under "positive", and only 3 under "negative", so the week was really good. It is hard to see past your current emotional state.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
Thanks for the answer zappbrannigan. I have used some of Your advice already. However "not to allow my self to fall in love" is what scares me a lot.

I'm after work right now. This week I have slept 3-4 ours a day and have eaten like a bird. Today I think all the time about the girl I lost or more precisely the relationship I lost, because I have never had her.

She is type of a girl I'm looking for - silent, stay-at-home, reading books and watch some movie on the weekend and she's 7 years younger than me - and I'm in great fear that this is gonna be very difficult to find on the street and more importantly - to have the time to comfort her and let her open to me, like I did with my current crush. My city population is about 43 000.

I coudlnt focus on my work today - I did nothing, recalling every single chance I could and should escalate with her.

There is a new girl in place of her at work. Better body, worse face. I have a fake facebook account just for screening people - It turned out, that the new girl is a cousin of fiance of my crush.
She has liked many party club's on her profile, so - from this perspective is a turn off. But I don't know her yet - maybe she is just looking for a boyfriend that way. And yes, she is single.

Now - she seems to be quite confident and adapted quickly in new enviroment. But of course she is intimidated only by me. She smiles, but tries not to look in my eyes, I see that she is nervous around me - becuase of my looks.

I don't even bother to start any conversation with her - I think only about my crush. My heart is pounding all the time, this is not healthy.

I found on this forum some advices. These are related to breakups but they could be realated to my situation too:

1) Suffer, and remember your suffering. Suck it up
2) Analyze what went wrong, see if you can find mistakes in your behavior that lead to break up. At the same time don't over analyze
3) Avoid blaming yourself, you did what you thought was right with the knowledge you had
4) Create strategy to avoid the same mistakes with possible future mate and learn new stuff about relationship on GC or other sites. Learn some new things about women... Oh boy, see below...
5) Create a strategy to meet new women...
6) Man up, move on... focus on the future, don't just keep replaying things in your mind that went wrong...

Point 3 is in my opinion the most important in my situation.

I don't know when these thoughts that are killing me slowly will fade away.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
I have noticed something interesting during the night.

I woke up in the middle of the night with heart starting pounding immediately after first thought about my situation had came to my mind.

I was lying in despair but sometimes, unconsciously, I was thinking about something else - like my brain wanted to start sleeping and triggered dreams.

But it was normal flow of thought and I completely forgot about my problem.

Then - bum! Strong heart beat came and I immediately started thinking about my problem, realizing that I was calm and thinking about something else!

The process repeated few times. I always was unconsciously falling into calm state and unconsciously falling into despair.

But during the transition from one state to another I had thoughts like - "o, now I'm back to my problems from normal flow of thoughts".

And the strong heart beat with shivers always indicated the transition to despair. As if my thinking about the problems I have was strictly biological. Like the brain forces you to think about the problems because if you forget something bad will happen.
 

Sub-Zero

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
836
If I read correctly you said she already had a bf right? Why did you think she would leave him out the blue?
That’s the worse position to be in, you can’t be in love with a girl who already has a bf, recipe for disaster.

You made two big mistakes; you fell in love with a girl who had a bf, and who you weren’t sleeping with, you also fell in love with a girl at work.

It’s also bad because you are shitting where you eat as well and could either have a bad time at your job because of whatever goes in between you two or you could lose your job for whatever reason because of the relationship.

It’s best to only go for girls at work where you don’t care to work there.

I’m still learning other forms of game, but work game is my bread and butter and has been for years.

The key with work game is you have to know this will be a very emotional battle, as you can see.

You have to train your emotions to be stronger before you even think of starting game there.

The reason is because if you don’t succeed with a girl you want, it will hurt to see her everyday, you’re actually lucky she left the job because you would be chasing a pregnant woman with a boyfriend. No way dude.

So yes, with girls at work you’ve really need to have strong emotional confidence because women will test you even harder there, they might try to make you jealous, etc.

You see how you are right now? I’ve known others that acted just like that after not getting a girl they want and having a bf outside of work, they were miserable.

With me I went through emotional shit too, but mines was more of not fucking the girl and messing up. That shit always left me with emotional shit.

But with that you just have to cut the girl off, which i did and it helps.

So yeah, that’s the most important thing with girls at work, you have to be emotionally solid.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
She wouldn't leave him out of the blue. I knew that. My plan was long term. She was reserved at the begining, sceptical but quickly opened to me and curious about me. I have my own room at work and she often visited me there. I was using "there is no reason why youre not enough" from coach Alex and couple of things from him. At one point the feelings she had for me started to outwieght the feelings for her fiance, who was her first boyfriend ever. And she was his first girlfriend ever. And most important - she never ever mentioned him and me too. There were days when she tested me by being reserved, not visit me etc. And I was ignoring that, and then she visited me again with playful attitude. She went on vacation with him, after 3 months of our first meeting. I thought that this is the end, it's too late, and I should move on. But she was probably testing him on vacation. I assumed the guy was I-do-every-thing-for-you guy before.
So she went back, she visited me, showed me herself tanned, her belly was a little unhidden, and we had a conversations about her vacation (not mentioning the boyfriend). Next day she was reserved. Actually whole week after. And I was reserved too. But it was the test and she had probably been testing hey boyfriend too in that time. One day she comes to me. I wont put any details but we and up going by corridor with very deep look into each other eyes and genuine smile.
Next day she is defenintely waiting for me to do something. But I dont left my room when she is near. I ignore her. I'm stupid. After work Im in my car and see her going out but ignoring my "bye" gesture. And I'm angry at myself that I did that to her. Next day is the day when I see her boyfriend driving her to work. And Im thinking "she wants to show me" Actually I dont even know what I thought. I was so confused. But actually it was her boyfriend despaired that he might lose her, that wants to convince her of something.
But I was stupid. I said hi to her and ostentatiously showed her that Im ignoring her. She didnt even exit her room that day. She was probably embarased by me. She was into me and I didn't want her.
After work I saw flowers on mask of her car. Hey boyfriend put them there.

But there had been many days after that she was ready for me to escalate. She was really into me.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
Look, the reason why I feel like I feel is that she was into me and when I could escalate I pushed her instead. Or just tease her with small touch on her hair, and her reaction was so great - extremely tense like she was waiting for more. But no, I didn't do more. Or when she was going out with colleauges to cinema, so she was extra make-uped and she came to me to show how she looks and said something with the sexiest voice she could make, looking really desperate.
So I told her - You have make up... And she trilled and went in embarassement. I should grab that face and kiss her but, well.... FUCK!
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
I know I must focus on improving now. I know where I made mistakes. I know now it's best not to rest on one’s laurels ever. It's a life lessons on humility. I have never felt that bad for that long. It will be very hard to forget. I hope that girl is happy and I didn't cause any harm on her psyche.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
Guys, do You think about girl's boyfriends who they dumped for You? I'm thinking, maybe to console myself, the fiance who she wanted to left would suffer much more than me - do You ever bother about this?
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
You don't write anything because You know how messed up it is. The girl is messed up, I'm messed up. This is unbereable for me. I can't get over. I'm walking from corner to corner. The girl was extremely great. Now it's done. She will be thinking in the rest of her life that she couldn't get better than what she has. And I can't see a chance for find that type of girl, that young and that great who would be into me. Please, please, please write something!
 

Lover

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
750
czk said:
She will be thinking in the rest of her life that she couldn't get better than what she has.

You have some mental models you need to change the way I see it.

No, she will not think about this for the rest of her life. As a matter of fact, most girls move on quicker than guys, especially once they find a new guy to have fun with. Doesn't matter how good looking you are, how great of a personality you have or how great your sex skills are. She will find someone new if she is unsatisfied with her bf. The new guy could be badder looking than you, but looks is never enough. I'm certain that a self-proclaimed good looking guy like yourself can attest to this.

Sometimes when people say stuff like "she will think for the rest of her life she couldn't better", it's because they project their own thoughts over on the other. Is it maybe you who are thinking that you won't find someone better than her? Whether that's the case or not, you will find someone better and more available if you keep grinding. I mean, there are 3,5 billion women in this world. You'll be fine as long as you meet new women.

Ask yourself this: would I be so upset about this particular woman if I had tried this with 20 women before her?

The other guys gave you some good tips already. Start applying them :)
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
Thank You all! You all are very reassuring. As soon as I can make it, I will go and start approaching. I will start in another city, which is 12 kilometers from my own - just to feel more relaxed. It's gonna be tough anyway. Thanks again.
 

Michal

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
278
What stands out to me the most is how you interpret certain situations and behaviour. There was a guy on these boards who read couple of articles, learned couple of concepts and then started to use them for situations where they did not apply. I see similar things here.
What you need to do is realize that your impact on other people is not as high as you might think. That other people have the same or even more complex lives and struggles like you do. There is something they are working on long-term, there are obstacles short-term, some drama with ex, family, friends, boss, coworker. That they do something for reasons which do not involve you at all. People in general overestimate their impact on lives of others. In your case this would be her boyfriend driving her to work. He certaintly just had a trip that way or she was late or whatever. I highly doubt it was some game to involve him to see how you would react.
If she was playful one day and not playful next day or next week.. dude, she is a girl.. their emotions can shift within 12 milisecond window from super ultra positive to super ultra negative and vice versa. What makes you think you have something to do with it? Sometimes you do (yesterday you had interesting conversation and she remembered it as she took the door handle to your room), sometimes you dont (she slept badly last night). Not to mention women like attention and even if this girl is not a typical attention whore, it is definitely in her subconscious to behave in ways that would make you give her or pay attention to her.
There are definitely some inner game things which are affecting you as well, it is not easy as a sensitive guy (I am one myself). It will get better with more social exposure. My biggest worry in the past was how people perceived me, how would they see me if I did X or Y. While normal people worry about this sometimes, the secure people just do things. They are in the moment, focused in the present. I would suggest meditation for this.
Also think back about the moments with this girl and try to be really honest with yourself whether you are not just projecting something on her. Either her interest in you or anything else. It seems like you do just like Lover pointed out. But you need to sit down and look at all this from above with a clear head and honest perspective.

Also, the scaricity. You need to find more girls who your mind would see as options. In university I was in needy love with one girl and it took me 2 years to get over it in total. Funnily enough after like 1st year I met one girl in a class and I just forgot about this first girl for a while. Until it was clear this new girl was not an option. And let me tell you, it is the passive investment you keep creating in this girl that fucks you up the most. That is why you should focus on surrounding yourself with more women. Get Tinder if you are that good looking. For the first week, it should supply you with a lot of girls and give you a sense of countless options.
Good luck and stay strong.
 

czk

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
18
Michal, thank You. Something that bothers me in that journey to actually be alive is that many people have something in common with me but due to their experiences - which I don't have - they manage their lifes better. Sometimes I think I have to much empathy, if that is the word. For example, I can keep an eye contact with someone but I don't want to intimidate him or her, so I break the contact. When person breaks eye contact first, then I try to interrupt my eye contact too, just to comfort that person. This is related to other behaviors too. I feel bad for person who in certain situation behaves insecure and I'm bold. This comes, I think, from what I had to go trough, this pain and suffering. And I'm pretty sure, that many times it is just projection of past experiences on others and maybe they dont feel the way I think they do.
 
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