This was extremely timely and helpful for me. I just got out of a 3+ month interaction with a girl that completely left my head spinning. This article explains it well. It was all stuff that I observed, but I thought I was crazy because I'd never heard of it before. But what Alex describes is EXACTLY what I experienced with this girl. Now, to just figure out how to get around it in the future, haha.
Here's a screenshot from a different girl, almost four years ago:
Now, in that case, I went on to date that girl for six months.
The girl I was speaking with recently was a different story. I never got anywhere but friendzoned by her, and ultimately I got so frustrated with the relationship I said some shit and bailed. But there were a few overarching themes that fit in perfectly with the FSC model:
1. Strong nonverbal or even verbal displays of attraction, coupled with verbal attempts to "put the brakes on things"
2. Constant falling back on excuses whenever the subject of attraction is brought up (I'm moving away in a few months, I don't believe in dating, etc.), BUT it always seemed like she was trying to convince herself it couldn't work, not me
3. Constant falling back on references to "incompatible" social positions, like age (she was six months older than me) or religion (she considered herself a devout Christian, I'm not particularly religious)
4. A pattern of surrounding herself with "guy friends" who she would do things with like see a movie, go motorcycle riding, talk on the phone until 3 AM, but we were all "Just Friends" and she swore she wasn't leading any of us on, because she told us all we were just friends, she doesn't believe in dating, God will point out her Future Husband™ to her when the time is right, etc.
5. Yet also saying that it was important to her to be "friends first" with anyone she could be with romantically
Basically, it was a mindfuck. I think I'm a pretty savy and experienced guy when it comes to social dynamics and this kind of stuff, but this one left me spinning. Mostly because I tried to walk away at every step, but every time I did she would chase me SO HARD, like following me around, offering me food, giving me compliments, only to become distant and aloof again the moment I started talking to her again. I do think this FSC thing explains a lot of it though.
Eager to hear more from the think tank. In terms of strategies to overcome FSC, I can think of two general approaches based on my experience.
1. Out Frame Her: Stick to your position, don't let her state control, and be absolutely willing to walk away and don't play ball until she gives you what you want. This is basically the "Jedi Mind trick" -- it only works if you can REALLY overpower her frame. Probably only viable with girls that are a couple notches below you and don't get many shots with guys of your level, or girls that HAVE to see you on a regular basis for one reason or another -- after all, by the nature of FSC, you're actually playing into her hand with this approach. The more you try to outframe her, the stronger you trigger her FSC. If you walk away, then her defenses have "worked" and protected her from you.
2. Agree to Disagree: This is a high-investment, low rate of return approach, and is rarely worth the effort unless you REALLY like a girl. In this strategy, you accept her frame, but pick ONE thing you're ABSOLUTELY sure about to hold out on. So you basically say, "You MIGHT be right about ______, but I still think THIS about _______. We'll just have to AGREE to DISAGREE about that". Then, you use that foothold to wear down her frame over time. You MUST stay adamant about your initial objection. Then, whenever she starts to waver on any of the other issues, challenge her on them. You can make it playful, almost like a game -- those silly arguments you two always have -- and it's important to not be too vicious or relentless, or you'll trigger both attraction and FSC. Anytime she gives ground, that becomes part of your foothold, and after that you never compromise your position on it again. If she tries to challenge it again, just remind her that she already admitted you were right about that thing, and switch the subject. If you're lucky, and you spend enough time with the girl, over time she'll start to realize she can't argue with you, since you always wind up being right in the end. From there, it's a short mental to jump to thinking that you're actually right -- and boom, you've got her into your frame.
Here's a screenshot from a different girl, almost four years ago:
Now, in that case, I went on to date that girl for six months.
The girl I was speaking with recently was a different story. I never got anywhere but friendzoned by her, and ultimately I got so frustrated with the relationship I said some shit and bailed. But there were a few overarching themes that fit in perfectly with the FSC model:
1. Strong nonverbal or even verbal displays of attraction, coupled with verbal attempts to "put the brakes on things"
2. Constant falling back on excuses whenever the subject of attraction is brought up (I'm moving away in a few months, I don't believe in dating, etc.), BUT it always seemed like she was trying to convince herself it couldn't work, not me
3. Constant falling back on references to "incompatible" social positions, like age (she was six months older than me) or religion (she considered herself a devout Christian, I'm not particularly religious)
4. A pattern of surrounding herself with "guy friends" who she would do things with like see a movie, go motorcycle riding, talk on the phone until 3 AM, but we were all "Just Friends" and she swore she wasn't leading any of us on, because she told us all we were just friends, she doesn't believe in dating, God will point out her Future Husband™ to her when the time is right, etc.
5. Yet also saying that it was important to her to be "friends first" with anyone she could be with romantically
Basically, it was a mindfuck. I think I'm a pretty savy and experienced guy when it comes to social dynamics and this kind of stuff, but this one left me spinning. Mostly because I tried to walk away at every step, but every time I did she would chase me SO HARD, like following me around, offering me food, giving me compliments, only to become distant and aloof again the moment I started talking to her again. I do think this FSC thing explains a lot of it though.
Eager to hear more from the think tank. In terms of strategies to overcome FSC, I can think of two general approaches based on my experience.
1. Out Frame Her: Stick to your position, don't let her state control, and be absolutely willing to walk away and don't play ball until she gives you what you want. This is basically the "Jedi Mind trick" -- it only works if you can REALLY overpower her frame. Probably only viable with girls that are a couple notches below you and don't get many shots with guys of your level, or girls that HAVE to see you on a regular basis for one reason or another -- after all, by the nature of FSC, you're actually playing into her hand with this approach. The more you try to outframe her, the stronger you trigger her FSC. If you walk away, then her defenses have "worked" and protected her from you.
2. Agree to Disagree: This is a high-investment, low rate of return approach, and is rarely worth the effort unless you REALLY like a girl. In this strategy, you accept her frame, but pick ONE thing you're ABSOLUTELY sure about to hold out on. So you basically say, "You MIGHT be right about ______, but I still think THIS about _______. We'll just have to AGREE to DISAGREE about that". Then, you use that foothold to wear down her frame over time. You MUST stay adamant about your initial objection. Then, whenever she starts to waver on any of the other issues, challenge her on them. You can make it playful, almost like a game -- those silly arguments you two always have -- and it's important to not be too vicious or relentless, or you'll trigger both attraction and FSC. Anytime she gives ground, that becomes part of your foothold, and after that you never compromise your position on it again. If she tries to challenge it again, just remind her that she already admitted you were right about that thing, and switch the subject. If you're lucky, and you spend enough time with the girl, over time she'll start to realize she can't argue with you, since you always wind up being right in the end. From there, it's a short mental to jump to thinking that you're actually right -- and boom, you've got her into your frame.