Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase's...

Space

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(80-character titles are short to be descriptive.)

Hello guys, my first post here. I try to keep it short and neat. Maybe I've read it here, maybe I've read it elsewhere, that Chase's stuff is about 90% the same as Mark Manson's stuff. So far so good. I can conform that I've pretty much enjoyed all the Chase Amante articles I've read so far. I may have some quality complaints about only one of his articles I've read so far, but that's not why I wrote this post. It's about the presentation of his whole online business.

I came across this on YouTube: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo (Behind the Scenes of his Site)

And it got me thinking. I have a lot to say about it, especially as it relates to the presentation of Chase Amate's work. But I've said that I try to keep my first post short and neat, so before I write something long about how I see Mark Manson's and Chase Amante's presentation (I said presentation; if their content overlaps by 90%, that's cool) compares,I encourage you to the consume the above video (you can follow it as a background task), and I'm pretty sure it gives you some pointers on how to present yourself as a world famous person on the Internet.

I'm interested in the opinions of both Chase's students, readers, clients, and staff & hopefully, Chase himself as well.

I give you only one pointer to start with: if I go to girlschase.com, it gives me a message like this. That it's a trusted brand in more than 90 countries, you've helped 1000s of students, and you have been around for 10 years. But how come I've just recently become aware of the existence of Chase Amante at all? If I remember correctly, I'm not alone with this. Maybe I've read someone on this forum how he has just recently discovered Chase, while also not new to pickup.

On the other hand, I'm well aware of the existence of Mark Manson for years. Heck, even my friends who are not into pickup have heard about him, his viral articles have been translated to my language and published in mainstream media. If I go to Amazon Best Sellers: Best Books, Mark Manson's 2-year old book is still on the #7 spot on the bestseller list - quite an accomplishment. So it's easy for people to discover that he wrote another book, one about dating and meeting women. Which is also an Amazon bestseller and top recommended pick in the dating advice category, with 100s of positive reviews. If you go to the Amazon page of Mark Manson's Models and Look Inside, look no further than the introduction chapter! You can see that Mark has refined and updated the book a few times since its original publication date, last time just recently. As he was supposed to do.

Maybe Chase doesn't want to become Amazon (and world) famous and go viral. As the only book he offers on Amazon seems to be just a supplementary offering to his main gig, not his main point.
 

Space

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

OK, I've just realized that while reading the archives of this forum was fun, in real time, this place is half dead. Only a couple of people are around. Despite Chase keeps telling on video how this is the world's most visited dating advice site for men. Which may be true if you count only for page views, but when it comes to engagement, I'm skeptical. (And how come that I - and others as well - have only discovered Chase recently, while being well aware of other authors, such as Mark Manson or Roosh V, two quite different figures, actually, long ago?) Just look at how lively rooshvforum.com is in comparison. I'm not saying you should switch Girls Chase Forum for Roosh V Forum; there's a reason came here as well. At least I thought; but at least I've expected a little more interaction.

Oh, and if it's the most visited, and let's assume for a moment, also most engaged with dating advice site on the planet, how come it was not a viable option to upgrade the forum to be enjoyable from mobile devices in the last 10 years? While the audience slowly but surely, went mobile.
 

Hector Papi Castillo

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

You don't seem overly interested in being convinced.

Also, convincing you with site metrics or sales numbers would be try-hard.

You literally walked in here and said, "Hmpf, I'm not convinced you're as popular as you say you are! PROVE IT TO ME!"

Not very socially savvy is it? I don't see why you took time out of your day to post this, but it's your life.

If you like Girls Chase material, then use it. If you don't, then go enjoy Mark Manson. His work is very good.

Hector
 

razir110

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

@Hector Castillo

I have to partially agree with Space here. When it comes to forum activity the reply rate has been really low and there isn't much input from the main writes, you guys.

You should def try to reply more often to people's threads and posts, it would create more interaction between the visitors and "the management" :)
 

radeng

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Hey space and razir,

First of all I want to say I agree with Hector, you kind of burst on the scene here with a very accusing tone lol. But besides that I believe you have a valid point. These boards have a pretty slow turn around time and aren’t super active in comparison and the forum software is very old.

First of all I love this community. Chase and Franco work very hard to make the boards a very positive environment and hand pick the rankings here, so senior members have been vetted. The tips and tricks you can get here are great and if it’s a serious question or problem with girls you are having you will tend to get detailed feedback fast.

As far as the quality of the forum and forum SW goes, This has been discussed over the years and it boils down to this -

Chase wanted to develop a good well policed community with passionate members but the forum is a total time sink with 0 revenue benefits. It doesn’t Currently fit into his marketing plan to be very active here and updating the software and migrating the posts will be an expensive endeavor with no real upside for chase. I think it’s def part of the grand plan but all things take time. So yea it’s a fair assessment that the SW here is a bit run down but any updates Chase does is just him throwing money for no return so it’s not a priority.

Mark Manson is also a main stream writer. Not a dating advice guy. He was previously a dating coach. But now he markets shit to everyone and writes books for everyone that have little to do with dating. I love Mark but him and chase are not comparable in the markets they serve even tho there will be some overlap.

Chase also runs an upgraded forum for people who purchase his courses that has all the modern bells and whistles you’d expect, but it’s not free, it’s part of the courses and he’s much more active in those.

Probably the low use rate here comes mostly from the forum SW being so old. It doesn’t particularly bother me, I still use my phone for this all the time and it gets the job done.

Hope ya stick around if ya like discussing women. I’ve made some great friends on the boards here and it’s a close knit community.

Cheers,
Radeng
 

razir110

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

I think the website is supergreat. But the forum would just need the main writers to show up more often. I mean there are like 5 new messages every day, so it's not like you have to type 60 replies. Just check it every day and give a quick input. It will greatly increase the interaction here.

Best
 

Hector Papi Castillo

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Here's how he should have went about it -

"Hey, I love this website, but it would be awesome if the forum picked up some more!" or "Hey, I have some cool ideas..."

But the title itself is, "Hey Mark Manson does this better than you."

Bad form. Even if what you're saying is true, it's not persuasive.

Also, you could start contributing to the forum. That's what I did. I was here every day posting LR's, FR's and replying to everything. That's how I got on the GC team. If you want to revive the forum, then be a part of the solution, not criticizing or begging. And it looks like you are posting somewhat, but 17 posts is only a starting point. Keep contributing then you'll see others follow.

Could we be more active? Sure, and we probably should, but if you want more presence, posts like these aren't the way to go about it. I mean, it gets my attention and maybe I'll think, "Okay, I'll maybe check around a bit. If this guy is feeling this, maybe some others, too" but if I see a post from you, I won't likely respond, cuz bad vibes. Do it a different way and not only would we be inspired but we'd also be like, "That's a cool guy. Thanks."

I'm sure you meant well, but please go about it better next time.

Hector
 

Chase

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

On notoriety - yes, we're the biggest trafficked site that no one's heard of. If you do mainstream media in this niche you have three choices:

  • 1. Be a media darling. Mark's gone this route. You adopt (or already have) political and ideological views that interlink closely with the MSM. You throw stones at the MSM's enemies and use those enemies as the butts of your jokes. You adopt MSM talking points. You make yourself easy to portray as "finally, a guy who actually gets it!" by the MSM. This fits an MSM story template of "here's an interesting guy who is doing something good but still within the realms of acceptability according to our world views."

    2. Be a buffoon. Most pick up artists (inadvertently) go this route. They get invited onto talk shows/interviews where selective editing (or their own inexperience in hostile interview formats) makes them look like tools. This fits the MSM story template of "look at the zany weirdos, we're not sure if they're charlatans or just insane!"

    3. Be a devil. Roosh went this route. Troll the media, troll the MSM's protected classes (Roosh targeted feminists, fat people, loose women, and rape among his trolling targets), and become a villain among the media. Sometimes this can be used well - musicians use it well (Elvis, NWA, Tupac, and Eminem are all examples who critiqued the establishment and blew up because of it). Roosh went farther with it than he reckoned for though, and he seems to have lost much of the wind beneath his sails. The "he's a devil!" campaign fits the MSM story template of "evil villain stands opposed to all that is good - how can anyone be so evil?"

There's a step halfway between #1 and #2 where you aren't quite as mainstream-y yet somewhat toe the party line, and don't get portrayed as a full-on buffoon. This might be called the "curiosity." The guy is kind of out-there, but he's still somewhat lovable so it's okay. There was some guy a few years back who crafted this public image for himself... I forget his name now. He was based in New York, did a bunch of talk shows, etc.

A lot of guys gained name recognition through Neil Strauss's book. In that case, you had one guy who went and did the publicity for many of them. Of course, it wasn't all good - Ross Jeffries got the buffoon treatment, as did Owen/Tyler and the RSD guys, while Erik/Mystery was sort of the curiosity guy. Meanwhile Neil himself of course was the media darling, and did all the promotions and whatnot. RSD has also buffooned themselves out on media a few times over the years as well, like with the Julian Japanese girl thing a few years back and the ridiculous articles on Jeffy a few years before that.

So yes, I am very aware of the media. I'm also very aware of the different ways the media chooses to use someone in my position (any time you step into a media interview, they are going to use you to push one story they want to push or other). I don't have enough hostile interview experience at this point I'd feel comfortable putting myself out there for that. And I do not want anyone else who works for GC representing us in the media in my stead.

We are working on building up the YouTube channel. Hector, Denton, and Tony have all signed on to do videos for the channel; we'll start getting a lot more faces up there soon, likely by early September. That should improve name recognition in the dating advice community at large.

Mainstream preeminence will have to wait until we're built up more in our own channels.

Slow and steady wins the race...


FORUM

Discussion of changes coming to the forum are here.

Chase
 

Sub-Zero

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Once you get more mainstream and known, what's gonna be next for men who do pick up and women ? How much more competition be? Will women be on a lot more game than before where it'll be hard to game them ? Will everyone be approaching women now? How are we supposed to compete against that ?

I know pua has been around for many years, but the stuff on this site is still light years ahead of all the dating advice I ever seen.

Once your stuff gets known I don't think there can anything to top it because your stuff makes too much sense, that's why I agree with everything you say about dating. No one makes sense with all their advice.






Chase said:
On notoriety - yes, we're the biggest trafficked site that no one's heard of. If you do mainstream media in this niche you have three choices:

  • 1. Be a media darling. Mark's gone this route. You adopt (or already have) political and ideological views that interlink closely with the MSM. You throw stones at the MSM's enemies and use those enemies as the butts of your jokes. You adopt MSM talking points. You make yourself easy to portray as "finally, a guy who actually gets it!" by the MSM. This fits an MSM story template of "here's an interesting guy who is doing something good but still within the realms of acceptability according to our world views."

    2. Be a buffoon. Most pick up artists (inadvertently) go this route. They get invited onto talk shows/interviews where selective editing (or their own inexperience in hostile interview formats) makes them look like tools. This fits the MSM story template of "look at the zany weirdos, we're not sure if they're charlatans or just insane!"

    3. Be a devil. Roosh went this route. Troll the media, troll the MSM's protected classes (Roosh targeted feminists, fat people, loose women, and rape among his trolling targets), and become a villain among the media. Sometimes this can be used well - musicians use it well (Elvis, NWA, Tupac, and Eminem are all examples who critiqued the establishment and blew up because of it). Roosh went farther with it than he reckoned for though, and he seems to have lost much of the wind beneath his sails. The "he's a devil!" campaign fits the MSM story template of "evil villain stands opposed to all that is good - how can anyone be so evil?"

There's a step halfway between #1 and #2 where you aren't quite as mainstream-y yet somewhat toe the party line, and don't get portrayed as a full-on buffoon. This might be called the "curiosity." The guy is kind of out-there, but he's still somewhat lovable so it's okay. There was some guy a few years back who crafted this public image for himself... I forget his name now. He was based in New York, did a bunch of talk shows, etc.

A lot of guys gained name recognition through Neil Strauss's book. In that case, you had one guy who went and did the publicity for many of them. Of course, it wasn't all good - Ross Jeffries got the buffoon treatment, as did Owen/Tyler and the RSD guys, while Erik/Mystery was sort of the curiosity guy. Meanwhile Neil himself of course was the media darling, and did all the promotions and whatnot. RSD has also buffooned themselves out on media a few times over the years as well, like with the Julian Japanese girl thing a few years back and the ridiculous articles on Jeffy a few years before that.

So yes, I am very aware of the media. I'm also very aware of the different ways the media chooses to use someone in my position (any time you step into a media interview, they are going to use you to push one story they want to push or other). I don't have enough hostile interview experience at this point I'd feel comfortable putting myself out there for that. And I do not want anyone else who works for GC representing us in the media in my stead.

We are working on building up the YouTube channel. Hector, Denton, and Tony have all signed on to do videos for the channel; we'll start getting a lot more faces up there soon, likely by early September. That should improve name recognition in the dating advice community at large.

Mainstream preeminence will have to wait until we're built up more in our own channels.

Slow and steady wins the race...


FORUM

Discussion of changes coming to the forum are here.

Chase
 

Seppuku

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Sub-Zero said:
Once you get more mainstream and known, what's gonna be next for men who do pick up and women ? How much more competition be? Will women be on a lot more game than before where it'll be hard to game them ? Will everyone be approaching women now? How are we supposed to compete against that ?

I know pua has been around for many years, but the stuff on this site is still light years ahead of all the dating advice I ever seen.

Once your stuff gets known I don't think there can anything to top it because your stuff makes too much sense, that's why I agree with everything you say about dating. No one makes sense with all their advice.
I have come to realize that there will always be a majority of guys whose mindsets are completely closed to pick-up and seduction. No matter how much GC becomes mainstream, this is still not for everyone. For these guys, old habits die hard. Finding "The One", putting her on the pedestal, chasing her like mad for months or years, hiding the banana big time, lavishing her with gifts, carrying the shopping bag, bombarding her with text messages, etc... Try talking them into the seduction mindset. They will always hide behind excuses, or beliefs such as "this only works with sluts", or "but the girls here are more conservative". I know it, because I tried.

I agree that GC explains the concepts very well, in a way that makes sense. But there will always be a majority of guys completely closed to this. If GC and other (good) seduction sites can reach out and improve the lives of the 10% guys open to it, that would already be quite a good achievement.

In sum, you don't have to worry much about competition any time soon.

Seppuku
 

Chase

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

+1 to Seppuku.

SZ, look at all the mainstream bodybuilding programs out there. You've got Body-4-Life, 4 Hour Body, BodyBuilding.com, a bunch of other ones that are probably super well known with large brand recognition and lots of people familiar with them / household names even. You've got guys perpetually on the top of Amazon's best seller lists in the space like Michael Matthews with Bigger Leaner Stronger. And despite the level of mainstream awareness, how many guys are actually swole? Some areas have more jacked guys than others... but most guys still aren't all that ripped.

The information is out there, it's well known, but few men apply it to the full extent. Many go and lift a bit and get a little fitter. Only a handful go hard and get super fit. And that's without going into all the guys who think lifting weights is stupid, pointless, for meatheads, or whatever. Works the same with dating and approaching women.

Even if you were getting blasted with ads for Girls Chase every time you hopped on YouTube and we'd just run a big PR campaign where we blitzed a bunch of talk shows and all the newspapers were writing about us, you'd only maybe see a few trendy/easy things catch on in the mainstream. Guys would be doing lame attempts at deep diving or chase framing, for instance, or they'd make some clumsy compliance requests. And eventually after the media blitz passed those guys would decide "that stuff doesn't work" because they half-assed it, same thing as what happened with Mystery Method and all the other forgotten methods, and we'd be back to being a smaller community, albeit with more name recognition (kind of like what RSD is).

That said, I don't think you're in any danger of seeing us do a media blitz any time soon. It is not on my radar, and not something I want to do (or deal with). That's a project in and of itself: figuring out the angle you want the media to run with, getting it pitched to the right people, making sure they really ARE the right people and will run the angle you want them to run (and not try to make you into a buffoon/devil), and scheduling all the press so it happens in quick succession and you achieve the "that guy / that company is everywhere right now" effect that really cements your brand in public awareness. And then on top of all that if you're not set up to capture that media attention and turn curious visitors into repeat visitors, newsletter subscribers, and customers, it's a huge waste of time, money, and energy.

We have a lot more building and optimizing to do before I'd ever consider something like this.

Right now I don't see us going for press/media any time in the next 5 years... at least. And if we got prominent enough in that time where we started to attract press, I'd most likely seek to play it down and make us look boring to the press. If there's one surefire way to keep the press away, it's to seem really boring/uninteresting.

I'd probably have us set up a research arm and get us published in some worthwhile scientific journals before I invested any energy in getting press, TBH (that's another thing I've been mulling over for a few years... one thing I found with One Date was there are a lot of very interesting areas in dating/mating with little or no good research on them). So press is a ways off... if ever.

Chase
 

Big Daddy

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Chase said:
SZ, look at all the mainstream bodybuilding programs out there. [...] And despite the level of mainstream awareness, how many guys are actually swole? Some areas have more jacked guys than others... but most guys still aren't all that ripped.

Well, if you look it from the side of people that still don't lift, yeah, it didn't change all that much.

But if you look at how many times the amount jacked dudes walking around increased since, say, the 80s, it's going to be a big number. Probably more than 10-20 times -- still not a lot if you consider only 0.1% of the population was jacked to begin with, but competition among hotest girls (who are also scarce) is probably going to be impacted.

I say this because if you think about how many guys you know that cold approach, you're going to conclude that not that many do it. But talking to my girl friends, they are approached on a weekly basis nowadays (sometimes even when I'm with them). More like at least twice a week... and not all of them are super hot. Most of them are cute.

I say this in total isolation to what was being discussed regarding the marketing strategy and all of that... it's just that bit grabbed my attention. My point is that I don't think we can possibly consider the 99.9% who will never even step on the start line as competition!

P.S. this isn't going to change any time soon, in any area, so those wanting to be the best will still have to put their heads down and work.
 

Marty

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

radeng said:
Chase also runs an upgraded forum for people who purchase his courses that has all the modern bells and whistles you’d expect, but it’s not free, it’s part of the courses and he’s much more active in those.
Really? How do I join this?

I have always been willing to pay for Chase's material, but I don't really know how... the site does not exactly make it obvious. I was actually surprised for a long time that there seemed to be no immediately visible paid option.
 

razir110

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

IMHO if you want to sell something, you have to invent an easy way to solve a problem. This is how all the MS guys market themselves, like they "discovered the secret" "they ran 100.000 approaches and now got the formula" so they all want to sell you a secret that is easy to use.

But there is no easy way to make a guy good with girls. This is not like buying a new multi-function vacuum cleaner. However this is how most guys look at the challenge of becoming better with women, they want an easy to follow solution.

I think GC isn't marketed that way and this is what conquered me on this website. GC just kinda admits that there is a lot to learn and then presents elegant solutions (such as asking for the date before phone number for ex.) that aren't necessarily easy, but if implemented they improve your game. This sort of stuff isn't easy to sell to the general public because it requires effort from the customer's side.

Perhaps now the trend is Tinder and its derivatives, so if you want to sell I guess specializing on that would be a good idea. Although I think Tinder is a load of BS, I already wrote about it a few days ago.

Having said this, I'd say the only thing that's missing to GC is more responses from the main writers and more YouTube presence with cold approach videos in different scenarios.

PS: an idea, I watched Hector playing SuperSeducer and I think it's a great video. Why not take the idea and start making real-life approaches and the video stops and we have to chose the right option with explanations on why it was right/wrong? A bunch of those would be dope :)
 

Marty

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Marty said:
radeng wrote:
Chase also runs an upgraded forum for people who purchase his courses that has all the modern bells and whistles you’d expect, but it’s not free, it’s part of the courses and he’s much more active in those.

Really? How do I join this?

I have always been willing to pay for Chase's material, but I don't really know how... the site does not exactly make it obvious. I was actually surprised for a long time that there seemed to be no immediately visible paid option.
Anyone? I just combed through the site again and I don't see it anywhere.

His stuff is gold, I'm happy to give him money, just cannot believe it is so hard to do so...
 

Mr.Rob

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

@Marty- You have to buy "One Date" to get access to the forum your in search of.

Now I just tried to find the the landing page to actually purchase the program but I could only get redirected to the video presentation that appears to be quite long with no way to skip the video. I'm assuming that once you fully watch the video you get access to the payment screen but I'm not sure.
 

Marty

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Thanks Rob. This program looks excellent anyway so I think I’ll get it.
 

Marty

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

Mr.Rob said:
@Marty- You have to buy "One Date" to get access to the forum your in search of.

Now I just tried to find the the landing page to actually purchase the program but I could only get redirected to the video presentation that appears to be quite long with no way to skip the video. I'm assuming that once you fully watch the video you get access to the payment screen but I'm not sure.
Yes, I am facing the exact same issue. It is advertised everywhere but I cannot see where I can actually sign up for it!

Edit: I found it and bought it; you have to watch the video. Which I had done already the first time but it had been interrupted due to connectivity issues. It was worth watching a second time anyway.
 

Space

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

radeng said:
Mark Manson is also a main stream writer. Not a dating advice guy. He was previously a dating coach. But now he markets shit to everyone and writes books for everyone that have little to do with dating. I love Mark but him and chase are not comparable in the markets they serve even tho there will be some overlap.
Now a quick answer on this one. If you check out Models on Amazon, it says it was published in 2011. But if you look inside the book (it's free), go no further than the foreword, you can see it was last updated in 2016. So I wouldn't necessarily call Mark quits. Even though he is married now. Once a dating coach, somewhere deep inside, always a dating coach. :)

My 2 cents.
 

Space

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Re: Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase'

To sum up this discussion so far, it got totally derailed when you guys started lamenting on how Mark Manson or Roosh for that matter handle the mass media. To start with, something to consider is, none of those two guys resort to buying ads, not on Facebook, not on each other's sites, such as Chase did. So how they got so popular without buying ads? Easy. They live in the 21st century. I wrote about network effects here (4th paragraph).

What I wanted to point to is, how they got their audience one by one, by listening to their audience on their personal blogs and comments (I said personal blogs, not mass market blogs), forums, guest appearances on other YouTuber's shows, Twitter, things like that. Channels open to all small business owners and online marketers, channels every one of them should use, instead of relying on old, mass marketing tactics (aka. buying ads) that works better for large corporations. they should just listen to their audience's feedback, one by one. By listening to your audience and their feedback, you can actually cater more to those people who are curious about your voice and create a following, compared to catering to just some random dudes finding you through the search engines. I've written about this here (5th paragraph).

Space said:
So my idea with this topic, my first ever here, was that some of you, at least one of you actually go and watch this video. None of you reported you did. I realize it would take about 25 minutes of your time, even though I recommended you are free to watch it in the background (this is how I watch quite a few YouTube videos), it's not so heavy listening. Okay, here's the short version: just watch the segment between 16:30 to 20:10. I think the speaker is onto something with this and for me it's heavily related to how I feel about Girls Chase material. Anyone, just from 16:30 to 20:10?
 
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