Overcoming religious differences with girls

Thinkingenigma

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Well, this is a topic that may eventually end up pissing people off or sparking a giant flame war, although that is not at all my intention. While it pertains to religion, let's not get into whether Religion A is more true than Religion B is more true than no religion.

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I attend a highly conservative Christian college in the middle of the Bible Belt. As the only open atheist on campus, I run into plenty of prejudice, both conscious and unconscious. It's not usually any big deal as it mostly takes the form of being excluded from things, or people making snide comments, although I have had a couple of people publicly chew me out, hoping that would convert me. Perhaps they might try taking Chase's advice and applying it to their conversion methods. It might get them better results (actually, I ended up becoming great friends with one of those people after they got past the religion thing).

Anyways, I don't let it bother me, and I try to be both amicable and ethical in my interactions with other people. My lack of faith is something that is just part of who I am. I don't throw it in people's faces, but I don't hide it either. However, the one thing that has bothered me is how my lack of religion has affected my chances with girls on campus. I can't tell you how many times I have met a girl and had her completely enthralled by the end of our first conversation only to have her go cold when she asks where I go to church (a question so common here that it ranks second only to "What's your major"). My usual response is something along the lines of "Church isn't really my thing, change of topic." Of course, most people are curious as to why I don't go to church, and will press me on it to which I will reply that I am not religious. The few times I have made it past that point, I have eventually gotten the "unevenly yoked" line, even when I'm only bringing up something as simple as a date (the courtship mentality is pretty popular here, so a date to most girls is a pretty big deal). I'm fairly certain that it's not just an excuse because I do really well up until that point, and when I date off campus, I rarely run into this problem.

In spite of my differences of opinion, I am still a pretty popular guy on campus and can get compliance from just about anyone I want (of course, by the time I recover from the religion conversation, I am firmly in the friend-zone, so romantic options are generally out). In many ways, my atheism and disregard for many social taboos gives me a bit of an edge (like the one Chase was talking about a few days ago) which balances out the rest of my image as a warm, ethical, and non-judgmental guy. Outside of school this combination is killer, but with a dearth of options around town (the city is built around this campus and there are no real hangouts off campus besides the mall where only the middle schoolers hang out), I would like to be able to date on campus. With a 4:1 Girl/Guy ratio, this should be happening.

My question is, what options do I have to deal with the religion issue when it comes up, or how can I head it off before it becomes an issue? Have any of you dealt with this?
 

Chase

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Hey TE,

Thinkingenigma said:
My usual response is something along the lines of "Church isn't really my thing, change of topic." Of course, most people are curious as to why I don't go to church, and will press me on it to which I will reply that I am not religious. The few times I have made it past that point, I have eventually gotten the "unevenly yoked" line, even when I'm only bringing up something as simple as a date (the courtship mentality is pretty popular here, so a date to most girls is a pretty big deal).

Yeah, that's a topic you definitely don't want to spend any time dwelling on. Religion and romance don't have a whole lot in common.

I haven't heard the "unevenly yoked" line before, I just did a quick Google search and saw it was a Bible verse telling believers not to get unevenly yoked with nonbelievers. Funny.

You've got two options, essentially: confront head-on, or play it off. It sounds like you've been trying to play it off, and it isn't working there for whatever reason, which means you need to confront head on. Fortunately, there's a more elegant way of going about this than telling her her belief system is flawed - you can turn it into a screening question instead.

Thinkingenigma said:
With a 4:1 Girl/Guy ratio, this should be happening.

The research I've seen on schools where men are outnumbered my women has shown that short term relationships and hook ups are the norm, and women essentially do whatever men want. Maybe it's a different deal there though... heck, maybe that's why only 20% of the student body is male (all the smart guys ran off to other schools where the girls put out!).

But if it's like most schools, the advantage should be very, very strongly in your favor - you're playing the odds here, and the odds are in your corner.

There's one thing that MIGHT be happening here... I encountered it when dating non-Chinese women in China. What happens is, foreign guys come to China, and hook up with Chinese girls; and Chinese guys are too meek to approach foreign women. So the foreign women in China are lonely and DESPERATE, and you will meet the most beautiful Russian or European women of your life who are THRILLED just to have any degree of attention from a relatively attractive man. Most of them spend too much time being single, or can't move past being some ugly guy's hook up because it's all she can get, despite being a beauty. But it's a double-edged sword... they basically become female AFCs. They are so afraid of losing you that they're super cautious about hooking up... they don't want to risk the one guy they've had a shot at in weeks or months. So they mess it up, just like nervous guys do back home.

This could be happening here because the imbalance is so great. It isn't 60% female, 40% male, like the schools in the studies I read... it's 80% female, 20% male there. Those women aren't just desperate... they're DESPERATE, unless there's a large supply of sufficiently attractive off-campus males nearby.

Thinkingenigma said:
My question is, what options do I have to deal with the religion issue when it comes up, or how can I head it off before it becomes an issue? Have any of you dealt with this?

Try this: very early in the conversation, YOU bring religion up.

e.g.

  • Her: blah blah

    You: That's great. Hey, so are you religious?

    Her: Uh, yeah! I go to St. John's over on Main St every Sunday!

    You: Oh, okay. Like, is this like a BIG part of your life, or...?

    Her: Umm, yeah, why? Are you not religious?

    You: I'm not. And I mean, I'm COOL with religion, I'm just trying to make sure you're not one of those people who goes around stabbing people with crucifixes if they won't convert or anything, you know.

Essentially, put the pressure on her to qualify herself. Now, instead of her being disappointed in your for not being religious, you're a bit disappointed in HER for BEING religious... but you're giving her a chance to redeem herself, so long as she can show you she isn't a fundamentalist crazy who likes huntin' Jews.

If at any point she tries grilling you on atheism, brush it off fast and get back to grilling her on not being a super fanatic. Should take care of it.

It works well with the age problem, and though I haven't used it in this scenario, I'd intuit it probably works just fine with religion, too.

Chase
 

Thinkingenigma

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
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Messages
293
Chase said:
You've got two options, essentially: confront head-on, or play it off. It sounds like you've been trying to play it off, and it isn't working there for whatever reason, which means you need to confront head on. Fortunately, there's a more elegant way of going about this than telling her her belief system is flawed - you can turn it into a screening question instead.

I used to confront it head on, but I ended up coming off like an asshole even though I wasn't doing anything more than sharing my story (I used to be religious). I found that skirting the question worked a bit better, although I think your approach to it will work even better.

Chase said:
This could be happening here because the imbalance is so great. It isn't 60% female, 40% male, like the schools in the studies I read... it's 80% female, 20% male there. Those women aren't just desperate... they're DESPERATE, unless there's a large supply of sufficiently attractive off-campus males nearby.

Good point, I hadn't thought about it that way, but you might be right about that. I'll be looking for that in the future. That also brings up some interesting thoughts about why the dating dynamics for everyone here are so weird, even for the guys who actually have girlfriends.

Chase said:
You: I'm not. And I mean, I'm COOL with religion, I'm just trying to make sure you're not one of those people who goes around stabbing people with crucifixes if they won't convert or anything, you know.

This is pure gold.

Thanks Chase!
 
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