The Approach - Effective Conversation

NarrowJ

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I have been thinking about this for a while now. There was a point in time where things suddenly got easier, and I no longer felt like it was necessary to go make 10, 15 or 20 approaches in one day. I could instead simply go about my business each day, and when I see a pretty girl, just seize the opportunity.

And, this is how that happened:

When I first started doing this stuff, I kept hearing over and over how pickup is just “a numbers game” and you have to go out there and throw yourself into hundreds of conversations to get laid, which didn't seem to follow the principles of Law of Least Effort and Sprezzatura. I was going to the mall and hanging out in all kinds of different places, doing a routine in which I’d have the same boring conversations with women again and again. I’d get some numbers, and go on some dates, and end up in bed with an extremely miniscule percentage of the women I was approaching. The concept of a process or routine is a simple one: you perform the same learned and rehearsed technique many times, focused on a single end goal (in our case, having sex with a woman). I kept telling myself, there has to be a way to increase my productivity.

So, I made it a priority goal to perfect my technique in hopes of markedly improving my overall game. I started closely analyzing my interactions with girls and reviewing the things I did and said, her reactions, things she said as well as the overall vibe. After months of practice, hard work and a lot of thinking… I came to a conclusion. I had conquered approach anxiety, was good at opening, and I was also fairly good at closing (getting the number on a high point). I started to really delve into the “meat in the middle”: the actual conversation I had with the woman. I mean think about it, you spend 5 seconds opening her and maybe a minute offering a date and putting her number in your phone. The other 10 minutes, what are you doing? You’re engaging in a conversation with the girl. So make it count, because in order to get her out on a date she will need to feel as if she has a connection with you.


How More Than What

I often wondered what kinds of things I should be talking to with the girls I’d meet. I already knew NFL or NASCAR was probably not a good option to start off with, but then that’s quite obvious. What you talk about ends up being fairly important, and we’ll get to that later. But, first things first: how you carry on a conversation is a far more important factor when it comes to creating attraction. If you have the right body language, vibe, and effective eye contact, then it really won’t matter so much what you talk about… so long as it is a deep topic that she shows interest in. Again, we will focus on that later. So, for now, I want to dive into how you should present yourself during the conversation.

The two basic elements of “How” that I will talk about here are eye contact and body language. Both are extremely important while making conversation with a woman, or any person for that matter. Let’s take a good look at both of these things, and see what we can do to maximize their effectiveness.


Eye Contact

One of the most important aspects of your interactions with other human beings is how you look at each other. Strong connections can be built in short periods of time if you know how to make the other person feel things when you interact with them. Eye contact can convey many things to your counterpart, including but not limited to: respect, interest, appreciation and understanding. Eye contact can mean the difference between seeming overly aloof and a new friendship. Or, in our case, getting that cute little brunette in the sack with you.

And, here is how you do just that:

Like you’ve probably already learned if you’ve read the advice given regarding eye contact, your eyes should be focused straight ahead to the bridge of her nose directly between both eyes. Do not switch left and right from one eye to another, as it will make you appear insecure, inattentive, and confused. Something extremely interesting I’ve read but have yet to try out is to look into her left eye, because the right side of the brain controls emotions but controls the left side of the body.

If you feel like you’re staring, then you’re not doing it right. Maintain eye contact in a relaxed manner, and remind yourself that you’re having a pleasant conversation. There’s no reason to be anxious about it. You’ll also want to break eye contact periodically (again, so as not to have that feeling of “staring”). You should break eye contact to the side. Try to avoid breaking eye contact in an upward motion, as it subtlety conveys superiority. Conversely, and even more importantly, you should not break eye contact in a downward motion. This conveys submission to your conversation partner.

Although you will want to break eye contact periodically, another good thing is to show “eye magnetism” during important parts of the conversation. If she is telling you something extremely compelling and interesting, don’t let outside influences break your eye contact. If something happens outside of the frame of your interaction that actually does call for your attention, don’t look away hurriedly. In addition to making you seem jumpy and unrelaxed, it could also create a vibe that you’re not locked into the conversation. Looking away is hard to refrain from, but you can train yourself to do it.

Finally, make your eyes “smile.” Unfriendly eyes and fake smiles will make her uncomfortable and want to leave the interaction. This is a feeling, and not something tangible, so it can be somewhat hard to get accustomed to. But when you get it right, you will know it and she will be drawn to you like a moth to a flame.

Eye contact checklist:

  • Your eyes should be focused right in between hers.
  • Do not switch back and forth from one eye to the other.
  • Be relaxed and enjoy the conversation.
  • Be “magnetic” when appropriate.
  • Break eye contact to the side, when appropriate to do so.
  • Make your eyes “smile.”


Body Language

If there is anything that indicates to a woman that there is a sexy, dominant, powerful man in her presence-- it is body language. Ever overheard a woman talking about some man she knows that is so sexy and irresistible, and hear her say the words “it’s just the way he carries himself”? What she’s talking about is his body language. Powerful, dominant men and slow and calculated in their movements. They open themselves up, taking up space and just looking like they kick metaphorical ass (and have been known to kick actual ass too, more than likely).

So, work on having good posture. Stand up straight with your shoulders back and your chest out. Look relaxed. Being fidgety or nervous is much more obvious than you would think it is. Women have a sixth sense when it comes to anxiety and nervousness in men. You can seriously practice this at home. Don’t feel silly using a mirror to get it right! If you display elite body language she will also feel more "locked-in" and less nervous instead of just wondering why she's still there because you stopped her to tell her you thought she had a neat purse.

Another reward of good body language and strong posture is that is actually makes you feel more powerful and confident. There have been recent studies and research performed that indicates that having strong posture and holding a powerful “pose” will actually alter your hormone levels and make you feel more confident, and thus more willing to take risks. When you feel more powerful, you will seem more powerful.

As an example, there are people out there of the belief that “game” is mere trickery and debauchery designed to fool women into sleeping with you. However, having “game” actually alters your own perception of yourself and creates a positive power feedback loop. You become a better man, and thus become more confident and assertive in your actions. This works the same way with your body language. It's a circular concept in that the cause and effect are the same, and can be interchanged. Having strong body language and good posture makes you feel more confidence, just as being confident will cause you exhibit an aura of strength and dominance.

Try this:

Assume a pose that will inject you with confidence. Uncross your arms, open your legs, lift up your chin and your chest, and put your shoulders back. Breathe deeply and calmly. How do you feel? Do you feel like you are ready to take on the world? Although, it’s not the world you’re taking on. It’s just a girl, so you should be fine.


Conversation Topics: What You Should Talk About

Now that we’ve covered everything about how you should present yourself during an approach, let’s move on to the subject matter. As a general roadmap for conversation during an approach, I like to start off light, get deep, and then end it lightly. You can’t be like pancakes: All exciting at first, but by the end you’re freaking sick of them.

I’m not going to talk too much about opening a girl, or getting the number. Those are really separate subjects altogether, and what I want to focus on here is the stuff in the middle where you relate to her and form a (hopefully strong) connection. You’re going to at some point need to diverge from simple banter to deep-diving her and finding things that she is passionate about. I’ve found that assumptions are okay for first dates, and it can seem like you’re leaving no stone unturned when talking to a girl and looking for something that interests her.

So what are good ways to kick off a deep conversation with a girl you just met moments ago? I find that the easiest things to make conversation about are very general things, which can eventually spiral into very specific conversation topics.

  • You can ask her what she does for work.
  • Find out what brings her to where you both are now.
  • Ask about her interests or hobbies.
  • Is she from around here?
  • You can ask her about her family.
  • Does she like to travel?
  • What’s her favorite food?

Once she hooks on a topic, the conversation can take many paths. If she likes Italian food, well, there's literally thousands of Italian dishes that can be talked about in depth. You can even move to a related topic when this one dries up. Wonderful, she likes Italian food. Does she enjoy cooking or aspire to have a beautiful garden filled with colorful tomatoes and healthy greens? Once you get that positive affirmation that you've found a topic that she is passionate about, you can delve further and possibly find some things you can genuinely relate on without it seeming like you are forcing a connection with her.

On the other side of the coin, you will want to avoid some topics. For whatever reason, women tend to love drama, conflict, romance, famous people (and their lives) and psychology. But, I still don’t find those to be appropriate topics for deep-diving with a girl that you’ve just met. They’re ok, but just not that enthralling. It’s also best to avoid talking to her about things like religion, politics, money, relationships, health problems, or anything else that could be offensive should you say the wrong thing or take an opposing position. You don’t want to start talking to a girl about stalking, rape and kidnapping if you want her to feel comfortable meeting you at Starbucks later in the afternoon. Think about what you’re asking her, and if it’s going to lead you somewhere good or not (remember, you’re slow and self-controlled). Also, talking negatively about people in general, even your own friends or family, looks bad and will make her wonder what kind of person you are.

And while you are going to spend some time deep-diving, remember to sprinkle in some humor. You don’t want to be stiff, dry and boring. So have some fun. Now, don’t take it the wrong way. Being an entertainer (jester) gets you nowhere. You don’t want to be funny like a clown, but rather you want to be funny like a sexy man who teases her and makes her laugh. Funny and flirty versus funny and goofy. Make the distinction. While you’re talking about a serious subject, it’s always nice to insert a positive spin here and there to show them you’re not a downer or depressive person. So capture those moments as a canvas for some teasing and framing. Just don’t overdo it.

Finally, balance your attainability. Right now, you're still doing the chasing because you approached her. Don’t keep dishing out compliments over and over, especially if you opened her direct. You can follow up some compliments with some light negative hits as a push-pull tactic. This is a good tactic if you are careful with it, and women love the roller coaster ride. You don’t want to come off as seeking her approval, either. Women want a man who is a challenge. They want that big validating ego boost when they finally “get” you. If you seem like you’re going out of your way to please her, she’ll be turned off and tuned out. If you can make a girl laugh while not seeking her approval or coming off needy, then you will have a very powerful weapon for creating attraction at your disposal.


The Total Package

If there’s a lot of uncomfortable silences during your interactions, you probably need to focus on the “How” more so than the “What”. Women will feel the social pressure themselves to fill in the void of conversation if they are in the presence of a strong, dominant man.

To summarize everything, when you get into a conversation with a woman you’ll want to:

  • Know that ”How” is more important than “What.”
  • Have strong, sexy eye contact.
  • Display elite body language.
  • Choose your subject matter wisely.
  • Avoid potentially off-putting topics.
  • Be funny and flirty.
  • Balance your attainability by not overdoing compliments and not seeking approval.
  • Keep testing yourself, and reviewing the results. Practice, practice, practice!

The beauty of it all is that of all the elements of seduction, this is the one that you can practice the most. Even if a girl isn’t interested in you, you still talked to her and you probably learned something from it. And that was my takeaway, at least.


-NarrowJ
 

Richard

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

Excellent post J! Very clear cut and refined, quite an enjoyable read my friend!
Through the article though, I have only one problem! My interactions are only 9.5 minutes, not 10 ;)

Seriously though, for any newer member reading this post, pay particular attention to the "Conversation Topics" because the one's listed are quite good:

The three biggest I find to work, and the three that provide the most insight I actually got from Light, so, the credit is his, but they are:

-Do you travel?
-Do you enjoy your job?
-What do you do when you're not hanging out/ shopping around (insert store name here)?

And if she doesn't respond well to the three questions above, it means she wants love and a relationship. It means she has close family ties, and wants to be loved and appreciated.

Great article J! Should be stickied,

Richard ;)
 

Pato

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

NJ, really nice article. I'm pretty new to the game and this should be a lot of help. Do you have any more advice on how to be funny and flirty rather than funny like a clown? Just kinda tease and flirt a bit? Throw chase frames/sexual frames in as well? And how much would change if you already know her (at least a little bit) versus cold approach? I'm a little lost, so if you could help me out, that'd be awesome.

Richard, what topics would you try talking to high school girls about? High school is pretty different from outside, and some of the topics I see used a lot I can't really use all too much. I guess I could adjust the questions a little bit, but would those 3 questions still work? And some girls I've talked to literally did nothing interesting (or at least offered up nothing, but I think they were telling the truth), but still seemed eager to hang with me and some of my friends. I just couldn't really make a connection and I didn't like them too much anyways so I moved on. How would I connect with a girl who doesn't really do all that much?

Thanks a lot,
-Pato
 

Richard

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

Pato, when you can't connect with a girl on very much, or she doesn't respond well to the 3 questions I mentioned, then talk to her about family and friends, connect with her about how important a strong supportive group is important to you.

With high school girls, most are in the moment thinkers, and act very heavily based on status. For the most part, connect with them on their future goals, what they aspire to do outside of high school (what do you do for fun, would you like to travel one day, dream job). Tweak the questions a bit and make them future tense based, and you should do just fine.
 

NarrowJ

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

NJ, really nice article. I'm pretty new to the game and this should be a lot of help. Do you have any more advice on how to be funny and flirty rather than funny like a clown? Just kinda tease and flirt a bit? Throw chase frames/sexual frames in as well? And how much would change if you already know her (at least a little bit) versus cold approach? I'm a little lost, so if you could help me out, that'd be awesome.


My main point was that humor should be interspersed throughout the conversation, and mainly used as a device to tease her and set frames. Don't try to be funny and entertain her, that goes along the lines of seeking approval or explicitly trying to impress her. If you practice the flirting, teasing and framing techniques that are taught on this site it will eventually become natural to you.

Try these articles out:

 

Sly

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

Incredibly impressed with this post NarrowJ. Quite articulate and clear, covering a wide variety of important elements of a successful interaction. It’s apparent a lot of time and effort was put into writing this, which I appreciate.

I completely agree with your post but I do have a couple things I believe are important to add on.

Firstly, it is definitely very important to incorporate kino into your conversations with women. Light, natural, nonchalant touches that seem just regular to your character can really spike interest. For example touching their arm or small of there back, communicates warmth and admiration. I often will compliment women's jewelry, like their watch, in order for them to present it to me, so I am able to hold their wrist while admiring it. A fine line is drawn though as too much touching can come off as creepy! Although seemingly pointless to forwarding the interaction, the effect correct kino has on women is unimaginable.

Next, although you mentioned incorporating humor/teasing in your post, I think it's important to add on that a lot of this humor should be sexual innuendos. Obviously they shouldn't be thrown out non-stop but a sexual innuendo here and there really gets the women going and linking you to sexual behavior. I find that when I watch the interaction between a lot of my friends who get friendzoned with women, it's because they might have great conversational skills which will begin to build a connection with the women, but they completely lack being able to paint themselves in a sexual light; which is partly done by sexual innuendos.

Lastly, your eye contact stage is spot on. I'd like to pinpoint something that has done wonders for me though. While engaging the girl with strong eye contact, silence and pauses instead of a verbal response can work wonders. I can't take full credit for this though as it was brought to my attention by Warped Mindless's post on ESP Model of escalation, https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=792, another post definitely worth checking out. Just casually nodding your head in response to an answer, with a SLY smirk on your face, really does something to the interaction. I can't pinpoint "what", but pauses are something I would recommend to anyone looking to improve their game.

Hope my suggestions help.

SLY
 

Franco

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

NJ,

This is a great post, and it has a lot of material that clears up exactly how one should go about progressing after an opener.

For this reason, I am moving this post to the "Beginners" board. I consider this to be a very advanced and in-depth analysis but on a beginner's topic, and I think beginners could benefit the most from this.

I'll go ahead and sticky it on the beginners board, however. =)

Cheers,

Franco
 

NarrowJ

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

Franco said:
NJ,

This is a great post, and it has a lot of material that clears up exactly how one should go about progressing after an opener.

For this reason, I am moving this post to the "Beginners" board. I consider this to be a very advanced and in-depth analysis but on a beginner's topic, and I think beginners could benefit the most from this.

I'll go ahead and sticky it on the beginners board, however. =)

Cheers,

Franco


I cringed a little as I clicked submit ;) Wasn't too sure where it should go, really!

Thank you!
NJ
 

NarrowJ

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

Sly said:
Hope my suggestions help.

Sly,

Thank you, sir. And those are definitely excellent suggestions.

I completely left out touch/kino. It's not something I usually do within the first 10 minutes of talking to a new girl (unless its a high-energy environment like a party or a bar/club), so I probably wouldn't be able to give the best advice on how to incorporate that into an opening interaction. Although, I suppose it wouldn't be any different than how I would do it on a first meet. As far as the initial approach/convo, I do like to say "You better give me a hug!" as I'm bidding her farewell if the conversation went well and she seems into me.

I only mentioned teasing and framing, but yes you should definitely use sexual innuendo for those very purposes.

Excellent points on both!
NJ
 

Marty

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

NJ,

Incredibly, fabulously, terrifically useful post. Thank you!

Very topical for me at the moment as I am starting to realize some of the lessons you outline here for myself, but would never have been able to verbalize it as lucidly as you have done.

Maybe you just do have to go through that initial "numbers" phase, there's just no way around it unless you're fantastically talented. Only then can you use a nudge in the right direction to set you straight!

Thanks again for such an articulate guide.

-Marty
 

lux7

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

OK, I was about to open a new thread but since this seems to be quite similar, I'll ask here:

Do you guys think there's a more or less strong relation -or something like a curve- between time spent interacting and chances of meeting again?

Like for example, less than 1 minute gives you low chances, around 8-15 minutes higher chances and then might start going down again because you touch too many topics and risks of getting boring?
 

lux7

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

NarrowJ said:
Eye Contact

One of the most important aspects of your interactions with other human beings is how you look at each other. Strong connections can be built in short periods of time if you know how to make the other person feel things when you interact with them. Eye contact can convey many things to your counterpart, including but not limited to: respect, interest, appreciation and understanding. Eye contact can mean the difference between seeming overly aloof and a new friendship. Or, in our case, getting that cute little brunette in the sack with you.

And, here is how you do just that:

Like you’ve probably already learned if you’ve read the advice given regarding eye contact, your eyes should be focused straight ahead to the bridge of her nose directly between both eyes. Do not switch left and right from one eye to another, as it will make you appear insecure, inattentive, and confused. Something extremely interesting I’ve read but have yet to try out is to look into her left eye, because the right side of the brain controls emotions but controls the left side of the body.

If you feel like you’re staring, then you’re not doing it right. Maintain eye contact in a relaxed manner, and remind yourself that you’re having a pleasant conversation. There’s no reason to be anxious about it. You’ll also want to break eye contact periodically (again, so as not to have that feeling of “staring”). You should break eye contact to the side. Try to avoid breaking eye contact in an upward motion, as it subtlety conveys superiority. Conversely, and even more importantly, you should not break eye contact in a downward motion. This conveys submission to your conversation partner.

Although you will want to break eye contact periodically, another good thing is to show “eye magnetism” during important parts of the conversation. If she is telling you something extremely compelling and interesting, don’t let outside influences break your eye contact. If something happens outside of the frame of your interaction that actually does call for your attention, don’t look away hurriedly. In addition to making you seem jumpy and unrelaxed, it could also create a vibe that you’re not locked into the conversation. Looking away is hard to refrain from, but you can train yourself to do it.

Finally, make your eyes “smile.” Unfriendly eyes and fake smiles will make her uncomfortable and want to leave the interaction. This is a feeling, and not something tangible, so it can be somewhat hard to get accustomed to. But when you get it right, you will know it and she will be drawn to you like a moth to a flame.

Eye contact checklist:

  • Your eyes should be focused right in between hers.
  • Do not switch back and forth from one eye to the other.
  • Be relaxed and enjoy the conversation.
  • Be “magnetic” when appropriate.
  • Break eye contact to the side, when appropriate to do so.
  • Make your eyes “smile.”

What do you guys think of using a lot of "side stare" to remove the possible chase frame you be trapped in?

Example:
Sometimes when both of us know that I was somewhat "after her" (hurried to catch her, changed direction, was looking for a while etc. etc.) I naturally tend look to the side more often than not, so to take a notch down the "chasing atmosphere" by giving off that "I don't care that much" air.

It's a bit hard to explain in words, but basically when you feel like you are in the chasing position and you know she is looking at you, you spend a bit more time than you would usually spend letting your eye drift to the side.
 

lux7

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Re: The Approach: Effective Conversation

Sly said:
Next, although you mentioned incorporating humor/teasing in your post, I think it's important to add on that a lot of this humor should be sexual innuendos. Obviously they shouldn't be thrown out non-stop but a sexual innuendo here and there really gets the women going and linking you to sexual behavior. I find that when I watch the interaction between a lot of my friends who get friendzoned with women, it's because they might have great conversational skills which will begin to build a connection with the women, but they completely lack being able to paint themselves in a sexual light; which is partly done by sexual innuendos.


Sexual innuendos, like, for example... ?


Oh, and one thing I always think when I read comments about "number game": even though it's often used in the sense of "big numbers", to me "number game" doesn't mean the number has to be big. Even if you get half of the women you say hi to, it's still a number game as you need to say hi to around 2 (not really that relevant, but I like sharing my silly thoughts :) ).
 

lux7

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

Also, on the sexual innuendos thing, this is quite a puzzling point for me.

Too strong sexual innuendos or a too strong sexually charged first interaction can certainly scare her off, but I was wondering: a little bit like over-complimenting, can they also put you in a chasing position as you're the one who's horny and chasing after her sexuality?
 

NarrowJ

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

Lucifer,

lucifer7 said:
Also, on the sexual innuendos thing, this is quite a puzzling point for me.

Too strong sexual innuendos or a too strong sexually charged first interaction can certainly scare her off, but I was wondering: a little bit like over-complimenting, can they also put you in a chasing position as you're the one who's horny and chasing after her sexuality?

On that, when I use sexual innuendo it's a little softcore and maybe even ambiguous. It saves you from rocking the whole set if she takes it the wrong way. Be light with it, or fuck it, if she seems horny and it's not day game and you're out drinking and she is too... no reason not to try to take it to another level. If she blows you out, there are more targets!

NJ
 

The Byronic Man

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

Do you guys think these are also good conversation topics?

* What do you think happiness is?
* What do you think is the meaning of life?

Asked later in the conversation when things are already deep. Can be challenging questions, but I like seeing girls think hard.
 

Dern

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Re: STICKIED: The Approach - Effective Conversation

Great post!
 
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