How difficult is finding a girlfriend supposed to be? LP

AdamEngineer

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Feb 22, 2019
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40
So I'm graduating college in a few weeks and well I've had two girlfriends my entire life. Both were one month long relationships first when I was 16 then when I was 23. I have hooked up a few times but not with girls I found super attractive, they were "bang-able" at the time and well I never really had to do work as they in essence chose me although in some cases I helped.

I've been super depressed at times because it seems impossible no matter what I do really pretty girls don't seem to like me, despite being far more attractive than other men around me. What bothers me the most is going out all the time and trying to introduce myself only to be met with aloofness and disinterest. But yet these same girls will have no problem grinding on some guy later on the dance floor or end up dating some other guy with bigger arms and chest. Maybe its because I don't meet them the natural way they did? Maybe because I don't meet girls in any of my classes or have any real friends anymore that are social.

I don't meet girls the social way, meaning I don't get invited to parties, never had really cool "going out" friends or was a part of a frat or athlete. I've come a long way since increasing my sociability but overcoming crippling social anxiety is hard. I wanted to be the guy every girl liked and had a lot of cool friends but it never came, and letting this go to move on with my life seems difficult. I'm left to check out all the cute girls I see in the library or dining halls and to make a move is bold, but weird since its uncomfortable to me, and the girl can sense that. Thus I don't do day game, or at least I have tried and well I can feel the annoyance and the disinterest in the body language so I eject.

I am going to have a phenomenal career that I've worked so hard for, but I feel that since I couldn't figure out the dating scene in college it won't figure it self out in the real world. I don't understand if its me, the mentality of the girl, the environment, etc. I could be doing everything right but in my mind it seems entirely wrong and I haven't gotten anything from it. Never in my life have I actually had a girl that I was genuinely sexually and emotionally interested in show me attention in any way. Maybe one time and that was it, and she was alright.

The lack of any emotional intimacy with another girl, especially the lack of relationships, weighs heavily on me. I feel like giving up because its starting to not be worth the energy going out and trying to talk to girls only to be shot down, and left to wonder how the fuck any of these guys met these girls without having to do what I am doing: cold approaching.

Based on what I've read, it doesn't matter if they're looking for a relationship or not, if they like you, they'll fuck you. Is my idea wrong of college girls? Are many girls just not interested in college guys because they think we're all the same? Why do I personally feel I would do better with women a few years older than me than girls now?

Regardless of the reason, I feel hopeless, as this is the last thing I expected to happen when it came to dating. Has anyone here been in similar situations? A shy introvert studying engineering, intellectual, etc? I can't seem to let this go and its starting to really consume my life simply because its really the only thing I want emotionally. My degree, yea I'm gonna get that. My job, yes that will come I'm qualified? A pretty girlfriend or a girl that likes me? No clue if that will ever happen based on my track record.

I just don't know what to do, what I am supposed to be thinking, feeling, etc. I focus on it, nothing changes, I don't focus on it, my daily routine doesn't change it. I'm 23 and feel like a toddler, I don't feel like a man, and I don't know what to do anymore.
 

ray_zorse

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There's a lot there so we have to break it down a bit.

So I'm graduating college in a few weeks and well I've had two girlfriends my entire life. Both were one month long relationships first when I was 16 then when I was 23. I have hooked up a few times but not with girls I found super attractive, they were "bang-able" at the time and well I never really had to do work as they in essence chose me although in some cases I helped.
I could say much the same thing at your age. But the goal is defo to be the one doing the choosing rather than being chosen, unless I guess you are David Beckham and all the 10s are choosing you without prompting :)

I've been super depressed at times because it seems impossible no matter what I do really pretty girls don't seem to like me, despite being far more attractive than other men around me. What bothers me the most is going out all the time and trying to introduce myself only to be met with aloofness and disinterest. But yet these same girls will have no problem grinding on some guy later on the dance floor or end up dating some other guy with bigger arms and chest. Maybe its because I don't meet them the natural way they did? Maybe because I don't meet girls in any of my classes or have any real friends anymore that are social.
It comes down to a behavioural thing. Remember that girls aren't necessarily looking for the trim gym-body and such, even though it does help (especially when you get to a more rarified level where the girl is being hit on by many attractive guys). The girl is more interested in power than physical attractiveness. So the way to successfully picking up girls is to appear as powerful as possible.

Strictly as a theory/speculation, it could be that when she gets pregnant, she is very vulnerable for 9 months plus, and she needs a powerful man to protect her during this time, it could also be that she needs to have a powerful son in order to pass on her genes when he aggressively impregnates further women.

The thing is that, power comes in many forms. If you are rich or famous, then you are automatically powerful out of the starting gate. But, the main thing is to act like you might be powerful. She won't know if you are rich or famous or otherwise powerful initially, so she's going to make the judgement more from your posture, body language, eye contact, fashion and accessories, behaviour to/from others in your/her company, etc.

So when you've judged that you're more attractive than the guys around you, and that after being aloof/disinterested she will go grinding on some other guy, I think you are looking at the wrong thing in terms of their attractiveness. Those guys are attractive because of their behaviour not because of their looks.

Franco (on these boards) tells a story about how he'd approached a hotty at a festival or similar, and she'd been maximally aloof and disinterested and he quickly gave up. He was nearby when she got approached by some other dude, from what I recall not that attractive of a dude to his initial impression, and she gave him the aloof and disinterested treatment. He laughed it off and made some wisecrack, she reacted with scorn, this was repeated for about 20min and then he just said "right we're going" and grabbed her and led her away, she complied willingly (IIRC the story at any rate).

The point here is that they are testing you with their bitch-shield, you have to prove you are powerful by getting through it. These dudes being grinded on have probably just impressed her with their confidence in going in for the grind -- and having done this a lot I can say it's not really that difficult. Introduce yourself with a smile, look her in the eye and shake her hand, and you're good to grind.

I don't meet girls the social way, meaning I don't get invited to parties, never had really cool "going out" friends or was a part of a frat or athlete. I've come a long way since increasing my sociability but overcoming crippling social anxiety is hard. I wanted to be the guy every girl liked and had a lot of cool friends but it never came, and letting this go to move on with my life seems difficult. I'm left to check out all the cute girls I see in the library or dining halls and to make a move is bold, but weird since its uncomfortable to me, and the girl can sense that. Thus I don't do day game, or at least I have tried and well I can feel the annoyance and the disinterest in the body language so I eject.
Social circle does not work well for me. I was more or less the outsider growing up. Girls in the in-group used to laugh at me, I have some painful memories of this. I hung out with the people I liked who were generally more nerdy, I didn't mind that much as I preferred more one-on-one interaction than group, and at the time I preferred to have a few close friendships rather than a lot of acquaintainces. If I could turn the clock back then perhaps I would do things differently.

As to now, although I can function socially, I tend to feel "don't shit where you eat". After spending quite some work in building up a circle of friends in which I am highly esteemed, I don't really want to throw it away by making random approaches to girls in the group. I have done this while experimenting and created some awkward situations, probably with some more experience I could avoid this, but I don't really recommend social circle game to someone where you're at.

With this in mind I feel that cold approach is definitely where it's at for you. A successful programme of cold approach leading to hundreds or thousands of dates and lays tends to change your attitude so much that "fitting in" socially becomes either, much easier and more instinctive, or, less important to your feeling of self-worth (both of these, in my case).

There is a theory floating around of "alpha, beta and sigma males" or something, not sure if sigma is the right letter but anyway. The alpha male of the group is what you're aspiring to be, the beta male is probably what you are now. Be the sigma male! He is beholden to no-one and is a sort of mystery wildcard man who moves between groups with ease. Think of him sort of like the college bad-boy that gets invited to the school prom -- he's not the most popular boy in the school because he's not PART of the school. He's not the quarterback dude that all the cheerleaders lust after -- he's probably not good at sports at all. Yet, he is an object of envy purely because of his freedom and lifestyle, essentially his status as "adult". He condescends to attend the prom because his "girl of the moment" invited him there.

I am going to have a phenomenal career that I've worked so hard for, but I feel that since I couldn't figure out the dating scene in college it won't figure it self out in the real world. I don't understand if its me, the mentality of the girl, the environment, etc. I could be doing everything right but in my mind it seems entirely wrong and I haven't gotten anything from it. Never in my life have I actually had a girl that I was genuinely sexually and emotionally interested in show me attention in any way. Maybe one time and that was it, and she was alright.
Having the phenomenal career will help you achieve "sigma male" status. That's perfect.

Don't worry about the dating scene in college, nobody else could figure it out either. The dudes who were hosting the frat-house parties and getting laid by loads of groupies were basically doing what came naturally, since they were brought up to have confidence in themselves. They acted powerfully, because they felt powerful, and this infected others including the groupies. There is not really much of a system to it, especially when everybody else is experimenting and making it up as they go along. If you are looking for a system then perhaps you could try Hector's "King of College" but this hasn't been necessary to my own success and isn't to yours either.

As to not getting the attention of girls, you have to make it happen. It doesn't happen by itself. You have to aggressively get out there, introduce yourself with a smile, build a relationship in the sense of asking her about herself and so forth, and invite her to coffee or whatnot. Remember attraction has an expiration date. Because you passively hung out on the sidelines and waited for a signal from them, these girls who might have been interested had you acted, gradually lost interest in you.

The lack of any emotional intimacy with another girl, especially the lack of relationships, weighs heavily on me. I feel like giving up because its starting to not be worth the energy going out and trying to talk to girls only to be shot down, and left to wonder how the fuck any of these guys met these girls without having to do what I am doing: cold approaching.
You have to build your mental toughness, I have been shot down more times than I could count. The best way is probably simply to just keep going as if they hadn't said it. Just assume everything is a shit test. And practice persisting, persisting, persisting. Like one girl I tried to introduce myself to on the train, gave me that maximally aloof and scornful treatment, I told her my name and put out my hand to shake and she just looked at it like it was the most vile, offensive thing she'd ever seen. So I kept talking and kept my hand there. 20mins later as she got off I still had my hand out for her to shake, it was a game by this stage. (She didn't though).

And as to how the other guys met girls without cold approach it's a huge variety of factors, (i) guys who do nothing occasionally get lucky as the girl does the work, for reasons of her own at the time, (ii) guys who don't study pickup can use some pickup techniques by accident, for instance if they find the people around them incredibly interesting and ask a lot of questions, this tends to build relationships, (iii) guys who are confident don't have to try that hard because they automatically act powerfully, (iv) women tend to give you quite a few chances, these guys might have failed a couple of tests and then recovered without realizing it, (v) sometimes people just hit it off through luck or chemistry or something, I mean guys and girls have been reproducing for millions of years without formally studying pickup!

Based on what I've read, it doesn't matter if they're looking for a relationship or not, if they like you, they'll fuck you. Is my idea wrong of college girls? Are many girls just not interested in college guys because they think we're all the same? Why do I personally feel I would do better with women a few years older than me than girls now?
You should probably look at some articles on the main site about "the secret society" or similar terminology. Basically the concept here is that women are highly reputation-sensitive. So they're going to come on all prim and proper at first, and act like they only have sex in married/a relationship/after 10 expensive dates... that's not true, it's basically a frame (a way of looking at a situation) and if you accept this frame then that will define the interaction you have with the girl.

Instead what you have to do is redefine the frame, by letting her know in a variety of subtle ways that you're all for casual sex, and that you completely disbelieve the myths that come with it, that you're totally non-judgemental, you believe people including women should do whatever feels good at the time, and above all you must signal to her that you are 100% discreet and that her reputation is safe with you. That is, she can have the best of both worlds: casual sex AND good reputation!

Once you get good at this you'll discover there's a whole extra layer going on that you were totally unaware of, lots of married women who are 100% above reproach in all aspects of their lives, are nonetheless fucking some bad-boy that nobody knows about. In fact this is probably more the rule rather than the exception. It's only beta males that play by the rules. (The rules were invented so that beta males could also find a mate). Others do what they want, provided nobody finds out.

There is a story floating around about how the beta dude was best friends with the alpha dude who told him some day "ohh hey guess that I picked up this little rocket on the weekend... she was down for everything! boy this girl couldn't get enough dick, I fucked every hole and then some... then I forced her to lick my cock clean and she loved it"... beta dude was horrifed "oh my god what a slut, my girl wouldn't do that"... well it turned out the two girls were one and the same. It's all frame!!!

Regardless of the reason, I feel hopeless, as this is the last thing I expected to happen when it came to dating. Has anyone here been in similar situations? A shy introvert studying engineering, intellectual, etc? I can't seem to let this go and its starting to really consume my life simply because its really the only thing I want emotionally. My degree, yea I'm gonna get that. My job, yes that will come I'm qualified? A pretty girlfriend or a girl that likes me? No clue if that will ever happen based on my track record.
Yes, you basically described my life until I find GC. And it's not just me -- nearly all the guys on here have experienced what you described, even though we're not all shy introverts studying engineering as I was. That is why we are here and why we decided to do something about it. Your situation is not so unusual as you think! The newbie assignment is simply designed for people in your/our situation. Actually I used Chase's book rather than the newbie assignment but it's a similar idea.

I just don't know what to do, what I am supposed to be thinking, feeling, etc. I focus on it, nothing changes, I don't focus on it, my daily routine doesn't change it. I'm 23 and feel like a toddler, I don't feel like a man, and I don't know what to do anymore.
Don't over-think. Act. I must say that thoughts cannot always be controlled -- due to my upbringing I have a lot of negative thoughts and have been considering various strategies to change this -- could be hypnosis, guided meditations, NLP and whatnot. I don't know. It could be a lifetime endeavour to really fix one's inner game. But in the meantime, fake it till you make it. Strategies like affirmations can also be an easy win. I suggest to read Dr John Bradshaw "Healing the shame that binds you".

cheers, Ray
 

radeng

Tribal Elder
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Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
76
Tried to give you some good advice on the other thread. Basically, sounds to me like your looking to get results without putting in much work. Unfortunately it just doesn’t work like that. If you want results you have to be taking lots of action. And until you do there’s no reason to complain on the boards anymore.

Start a journal. Start approaching. Start dating. Start writing field reports and asking specific questions about specific interactions.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, being scared, being negative, and being sad and most of all stop posting weird hypotheticals, like “is x better than x if I were to do x and will I look weird if I do x” Get out there and find out for yourself.

Take control of your dating life.

Cheers,
Radeng
 

AdamEngineer

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
40
@ray_zorse

Everything you said I actually understand completely and know this. However, for whatever reason, it is very difficult to embody this sense of "Sigma" that you think of. However, I have never heard of that, just Alpha. In the real world, however, I know I am going to have lots of status. I'm going to be an Engineer.

You mention power, that's essentially confidence + dominance. I guess I really don't understand how aggressive and persistent I have to be. Whenever I encounter the "bitch shield," I always take that as disinterest. I don't like pressing because I don't want to be annoying, bothersome, or come off as desperate.

You mentioned the Frat dudes and Athletes having this power. Just because your in a frat, doesn't mean your suddenly "powerful." In fact lots of girls just like their parties and would never do anything with them. For me, I don't know my own status since well I'm not associated with anything that seems "worthy" for a typical college. I wish I was in a frat, I would get a lot of pre-selection.

Its hard for me to relax, because I feel this pressure to make this happen in college. I don't know why, I feel afterwards I won't have as much opportunity as I have now. But thats a bad perspective. I know this one average looking dude whose 24 that is dating a 20 year old in college he met at a GYM. Of all places. I don't even dare talking at the gym. Funny thing was, she was telling me "don't hit on girls at the gym, its weird." Yet here they were dating. She said he was persistent. How do you be persistent without looking desperate or weird? I'm legitimately terrified to talk to pretty girls because I don't want to be embarrassed. I worry about being embarrassed because I have social anxiety.

For example, tonight is Senior Bar night for graduates. I can go and probably won't be able to talk to any attractive girls, but I usually go to the dance floor and rely on that. I guess I'm under a lot of stress and I really shouldn't be thinking about this while I have finals to worry about. Its funny how the lesser attractive girls (kinda cute) are much more aggressive than the really hot ones.


@radeng

Yea I know you've given great advice. I'm just being very hard on myself trying to overcome this sense of limiting belief coupled with bad social anxiety and fear of being embarrassed, even if nothing actually happens, it makes you feel very exposed. Its a painful feeling.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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How do you be persistent without looking desperate or weird?
Chase has an article on this, called something like "The difference between persistence and chasing". Go search for it. But intuitively I think you will know.

I'm legitimately terrified to talk to pretty girls because I don't want to be embarrassed. I worry about being embarrassed because I have social anxiety.

For example, tonight is Senior Bar night for graduates. I can go and probably won't be able to talk to any attractive girls, ...
Well that's your problem right there. No point bringing in a whole lot of theories and speculation and unrelated stresses or anxieties when the problem is simple: fear of rejection.

You may call it many things -- protecting your ego, approach anxiety, social anxiety, it comes down to the same idea. What this indicates is you are deriving your self-worth or feeling of being a valuable person from the reactions of those around you. (There is a bit more to it, which is why I recommended the book by Bradshaw, but I will keep it simple for now).

So the trouble is basically that when the girl shoots you down and says or implies that you are of no value to her, you are believing and internalizing this, and the higher her perceived status in your eyes the more weight you're attaching to her opinion. (Or more accurately you are allowing her to confirm already held feelings of defectiveness).

Believe me rhat I know this aa I spent 37 years of my life taking for granted that the pain of rejection had to be avoided at any cost. But when you turn it all upside down and reframe it mentally that your worth in your eyes depends purely on how you choose to measure it, all that goes out the window. A rejection by her does not say anything about your value, only whether she was able to access your value.

Aside from that, fears and phobias in general should be treated by gradually exposing yourself to the feared thing in small but increasing doses, e.g. the newbie assignment.

By the way, I am a mid/senior engineer and I think I should alert you that today's society does not hold engineers in as high esteem as in times paat, also that the remuneration while good does not necessarily compare to some higher status occupations. And also you should try to expect that your work product will have some rough edges in the initial years or decades. I probably didn't produce a medium quality result until I had completed about a 5 year apprenticeship and I'm still learning.

cheers, Ray
 

AdamEngineer

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
40
Ray,

Yes, I am afraid of rejection. However there are times when I can go out and I'm fine, but most of the time you're right. The more attractive the girl, the harder the rejection feels. Facing the anxiety doesn't seem to make it work. I wish I had very attractive female friends so I would just seem them as what they are and not put them on a pedestal.

Your right though. Everything you say is right. But yet put me back in the place I was tonight I'm like a deer in the headlights. I swear there were dozens of girls looking at me, instead of making me feel more secure, it made me feel insecure, as if they know something about me and are judging me, since maybe I look uncomfortable and they sense it. It sucks. Even if I did approach, it doesn't lead anywhere. The girls just aren't that invested.

As for the career, well I'm doing this for myself. I was wrong when I said "social status" for Engineers. You're right, they're not that highly regarded in terms of popularity, but it comes with great job security and usually intellectual-ability, which isn't smart the new sexy? By the way, what kind of engineering, I'm about to graduate in Civil. I'm aware of the apprenticeship required I'm not worried about learning. It is a life-time to master career. I plan to do graduate online for Mechanical as this is where I see myself going.

Thats another thing. I'm not crazy about graduating. I'm just not. I'm more concerned about leaving school and not having been able to meet lots of the hot college girls here. If girls like to fuck well hell I don't believe that. I seem invisible at times, especially in a male dominant and work infused major my social life sucks.
 
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