ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?



ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:38 pm

Hello there. I figured I'd start a journal for a few reasons.
1. I'm checking the boards daily anyway
2. My back story and new posts will help put me and my journey in context for the awesome people willing to help me on my, well, "help me" posts. haha
3. I definitely need a journal to document the good times. I'm pretty damn moody when it comes to this journey. There are good days where I feel like things are going in the right direction, but then there are far more negative days where I feel pretty depressed, hopeless, and like I'm spinning my wheels and getting nothing from it. So by documenting everything, on the bad days it'll be much easier for me to look back, find the good times, and remind myself that indeed progress is being made.

So since this is the first post, I'll make it about my back story.

I am a 30 y/o virgin whose never had a girlfriend before. I absolutely hate this about myself. There isn't much of a particular reason for how I got here. I just never had a strong desire to have this be a part of my life before. In high school I was cocky. I had the balls to approach the cutest girls at the school. They'd reject and that would basically be it lol. I didn't care. But I had no idea what I was doing. No mentors, no reading about the right way to game online, no good social circle, nothing. I just saw what I saw in pop culture and went for it.

When college came around, I bombed with girls for a different issue - I had bad self esteem issues. I've always had terrible skin. My parents should have forced me to do accutane at 13, but they didn't. So to this day I still get severe acne on my torso, especially during the summer. I'm planning to go on accutane as soon as I get a longer term healthcare solution figured out so I know what it'll cost me for the I believe 5 month course of treatment. I think those pills can be expensive. But the real skin problem is the scars. The acne won't take all that long to pop and heal, but they all leave red or purple scars that remain for at least 6-12 months. So my chest and shoulders are covered with scars. It's still an insecurity to this day, but nowhere near as much as it was in college. I should also note I went to the derm like 10-12 times in college to try and treat the scars but nothing they tried would work. They're just very stubborn and you basically have no choice but to wait and let them fade on their own.

The other major (and bigger) self esteem issue I had in college was about my height. It's fascinating in retrospect how in high school I didn't give two shits about my being short (possibly because for most of those years I was expecting a growth spurt...) but in college it just destroyed me. Lots of confirmation bias. All the attractive girls I saw flirting with guys were exclusively flirting with tall guys. Never noticed a short guy with a bunch of hotties. So for all my college years and a few years after college I was pretty convinced that I was just fucked being a short guy, so I didn't bother finding girls or a girl at all.

It wasn't until 26 or 27 that I stopped and realized "hey asshole. people your age are starting to get married. you need to start making an effort to meet girls." So I began the very first stages of my journey. I started by learning how clothes should fit. Pants, shirts, suits, you name it. I don't want to get into a whole thing about my dad, but in many many ways he was useless as a father. I can't think of a less alive man or a man with less a purpose in life that I've ever met. Anyway, in this example if you asked him about how to dress, he would recommend Target or Walmart clothes because 'you can get a good xxxx for a cheap price' and he would have zero clue about how it should fit or if he did he just didn't give a shit. Baggy shirt? 'oh well. it looks fine.' Long pants that need to be hemmed? 'it's okay. they'll just scrunch at the ankles like mine.' Fucking ridiculous. Anyway, since he was no help here ever I taught myself how things should fit and started building my new wardrobe.

Also around this time I went back into the gym. I lifted weights in high school and stopped in college because my studies were just too demanding time-wise, but after college I went back to the gym. Just thought I'd toss that out there. I won't go into detail here because this was something that has nothing to do with girls. I never stepped foot in a gym hoping to build a body to impress girls. I've always just wanted to be muscular and strong for myself. So I don't count this as a life change I made in order to get girls.

Once I got my wardrobe in order, I went straight into online dating. The #1 mistake of my journey. I ended up being on apps for about a full year, doing nothing else to meet girls. It didn't do much more than destroy my mood and self esteem. I just couldn't get matches/swipes/responses for the life of me, regardless of what I wrote in the bio. I knew it was obviously my photos. They just sucked. So on THREE occasions I asked female friend photographers to take photos of me so I had some quality photos for online dating. Didn't make a difference. Even the best photos couldn't score more than 7/10 attractiveness on sites like photofeeler. So rather than waste more time seeking photos that would probably never work, I decided it was time to grow a pair of balls and go out to meet girls in person.

I've now been going out for about a year. Maybe a month or two less. All in all, I've gone on about 40 dates in total. Maybe half from online dating, half from going out. Mostly dance nights. I've gotten pretty good at cold approaching, socializing, and meeting people and girls in general. Obviously good enough to get 40 dates! And however many numbers that translates to and however many approaches that translate to! But, zero results. Can't get past Date #2 to save me, and second dates are very rare. Can't get laid to save me. I've posted a couple threads on the boards here that have been very helpful and I look forward to applying the advice I received in those threads as soon as I can line up some more dates.

That's all I can think of for now. I'll post more throughout the journal entries. Thank you for reading!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:00 pm

1/4/19 - Not a good day, but possible key learning day.

Went out dancing with new friends. Not a good night. It was one of those nights out where there's just not many girls at the establishment that catch your eye and excite you. Meanwhile the prettiest ones there seem to be with SOs or close friends. And they're not smiling so their walls are clearly wayyy up. I'm referring to people outside of my friend group lol.

Dancing with the friends was fun. Hopefully I can get to know them better over time.

My energy when going out was not good. My mood was a little down all day. I'm coming off a positive crest because I had 3 new numbers to hit up for this weekend. Two haven't answered and one has been responding, but the responses are definitely coming across as 'i don't want to see you. sorry.' So at this very moment it feels like I went 0 for 3. Basically any negative thoughts destroy my mood. I probably shouldn't go out when my mood is like this, but I'll feel worse sitting at home and wasting an opportunity to meet new girls, so regardless of mood I always force myself out.

On the plus side, I may have identified a major weakness in my internal game. I was reading a book recommended in a thread - "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and in one part he talks about masculine energy. He asks if I feel like a different kind of man from the kind that have a strong presence/get laid/however you want to describe it. And the answer is a clear yes. I've never really felt masculine on the inside. I've never understood that raw internal masculinity. Like when I had friends playing football in high school. They'd describe how when on the field they just flip a switch and turn on this super aggressive, intense part of themselves. I didn't have that. I can't envision myself getting so angry or emotional about something. I've always preferred being in control of my emotions. I've always felt like I must be from a different planet because of this. Those guys act a certain way. I don't. Anyway, bullshit reasoning and philosophizing aside, a new task of mine is to figure out how to develop that masculine energy, and ideally in a way faster than just hanging out and befriending masculine guys and waiting for their personalities to rub off onto me. Not saying that isn't good. It definitely is. But I'm low on patience. If there's a way to do this as quickly as possible, I'm interested.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:18 pm

That was a pretty good read.

It's good that you went on many dates, and it does sound like you might be being too nice to women and they just aren't sexual attracted to you. Good thing is that you can get them out and that's part of the battle. Chase has some articles on being an asshole and pretty much anything on how to not be seen as a nice guy and to become a sexy guy.

I know you didn't talk much about your father, but do you know why he is the way he is? Is he divorced? Is he in a un happy marriage? I ask because it would be good to find out on why he is this way, that way you don't end up like him when you're older.

As for masculinity, you can only get it doing masculine things, you wouldn't get it the same way even if you hung around your friends all day. Maybe if you guys played sports a lot together.

But yeah working out and playing sports increases testosterone, it makes you competitive.

Chase has articles about this also, one that comes to mind is the aggressive one.

I feel if you just read the articles for your exact problems, you'll be able to get sex. It's all a process, trust the process.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Hey man, thanks for the comment! Yeah I think you're right that there's some sexiness issue going on. I'll write about it after this comment.

Regarding my father, he's been divorced for a couple decades now. I don't think he's even hit on a woman since. As for why he is the way he is, I think it's just his wussy characteristics and incorrect views on life. For instance, he doesn't have an understanding for hard work. He actually thinks successful people were just born lucky. He can't conceive of people starting with disadvantages and overcoming them by sheer determination. I don't know. He's just happy living in his boring world and never pursues any legit improvements or challenges.

As for masculine activities, I already powerlift if that counts! Not competitively, but I'm very determined to get stronger. My squat is closing in on 300, deadlift 350ish, and my overhead press is getting close to my bodyweight.

I have read numerous articles and watched numerous videos on masculinity/aggressiveness/manliness, but it's just not helping. It's not an issue of understanding. After seeing all this material, I definitely get it. To me it's just like an internal feeling that just doesn't click on, even after reading about it. That being said, I do want to try krav maga classes eventually to help with this. I can't commit quite yet for financial reasons, but I'm sure I'll start at some point in 2019.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:00 pm

1/5/18 - Good outing, felt down during the day, another possible epiphany

Like yesterday I just felt down all day. Not super depressed though. Of the three numbers I mentioned in yesterday's post, one of them responded and flaked out of a coffee date. Oh well.

For the night out, it was dancing again. I was able to improve my mood before leaving in two ways: 1. I watched some videos on new dance moves. This helps because by looking up new moves to learn and implement, it gets my brain thinking about dancing just for the fun of it, and NOT as a tool to get girls. In other words, it keeps me focused on having fun, not on the female agenda. 2. I watched RSD Tyler videos. Just watching that man shoot the shit and laugh is an instant mood improver every. single. time.

Also to help my mood, the dancing venue(s) had much better people there than last night. There were a good number of cute girls that actually excite me to approach, and everyone else was very friendly. I felt good dancing. Some nights it feels like there's cement in your gut and you just can't get loose to save you. Not this night! This night I felt great and the friends I dance with noticed too.

As a result of all this, I was able to get 3 new numbers. On this night as a very minor side experiment, I wanted to try asking for numbers much quicker. Before, I'd chat girls up to first see if she was even worth the time, then in an effort to be non-needy I'd break away to dance more and re-engage with them later in the evening. However, it got frustrating because even when a girl would clearly confirm she'll be sticking around and dancing all night, all too often she'd either leave with her friends 5 minutes later, or leave the venue without ever making contact with me again. Now, I take this to mean she wasn't all that interested anyway, but to avoid this I tried asking for numbers much faster - maybe 3-5 minutes after approaching, and, well, it didn't seem to hurt at all.

I basically haven't texted with these girls yet, but I'm just not optimistic about them. They just didn't seem excited to give me their numbers. They're basically never super excited to do it. Similarly, I'm getting pretty tired of girls NEVER chasing me. Even unattractive ones don't chase me. Girls just never work to get my attention. I don't know what the issue is - too low value? too high value? too unattainable? too attainable?

Thinking about this gave me a possible epiphany... am I just not sexy? It would explain the lack of excitement. But then again, I don't know. Am I overthinking and being overly critical? Is it really possible to go on so many dates and acquire so many numbers if I didn't have some sex appeal? Bah. Too much to think about. I'm probably overthinking.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Seppuku » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:25 am

Hey ElderPrice,

Happy new year to you. In 2019 you are going to lose this V card.

Very good initiative to keep this journal. I'll be following it.
Thinking about this gave me a possible epiphany... am I just not sexy? It would explain the lack of excitement. But then again, I don't know. Am I overthinking and being overly critical? Is it really possible to go on so many dates and acquire so many numbers if I didn't have some sex appeal? Bah. Too much to think about. I'm probably overthinking.

Yes you are overthinking. You had 40 unique dates in one year, which is a lot, and it means you ARE doing something right. Just keep doing what you have been doing. About girls chasing, that will come later. At the beginning you HAVE to be the one opening and pursuing. So don't worry about it for now.

Now you also wrote this, and it is probably the key to your problems:
I am a 30 y/o virgin whose never had a girlfriend before.

This is huge lack of congruence. From my own experience, women have a very good sixth sense to smell what is your overall experience with opposite sex. So here is my guess. You initially make a good impression online or on cold approach, she gives you her number and agrees to a date. Then on the date she intuitively figures out, thanks to this sixth sense, that you are lacking sexual experience. That is not congruent with the impression she initially got. And that is massively not congruent with you being 30 years old. Then you never get past the second date.

Your virginity is probably like a big thing in your mind, and your dates must sense it. It is not attractive. Girls like experienced guys. And if you are 30, they expect you to be experienced.

OK I am going to take this as my best guess of your problem. Now, to the solutions.

First solution. I am normally against going to a professional girl, but this is a case where it could actually be helpful. You book yourself a good looking professional and get the v card problem handled. Then book two more. You will have a little experience in your hood, and a little self confidence in your abilities as a man. I think it will help you tremendously. After you done that, proceed to the second solution below - but it will just be easier.

Second solution. No prostitute (I understand that we guys have our egos and we like to earn things via our own merits). OK. But then you are going to work hard outside your comfort zone. We are back to what I advocated in the other thread. On the date, don't worry much about "gaming", and instead you focus on leading smoothly towards a sexual objective on the first date.

Yes, on the first date. This is where you will have to push yourself out of your comfort zone. On the first date, is when your chance of success is the highest. Yes, many girls are open to that, no matter them saying otherwise. And, as you now know, you may never get the second date. This is your chance, so go for it.

Your logistics. You need to be clear where it is going to happen. It is for you to figure out. But you must have your logistics handled. I would suggest you go for your car if you don't have a place to pull. It may be easier (for now) than trying to push to her place.

Your sexual objective. Set yourself a goal which is out of your comfort zone. Take out her boobs and suck them. Or have her take your dick in her hand. Or get a blowjob. Or finger her. Decide what is your goal before hand, then find a way to get there. The how is for you to figure out. Then if you achieve the objective, proceed to next step up. Note: kissing is not a valid sexual objective.

Getting compliance. That will help you to achieve your sexual objective. I noticed for your FR (the other thread) that you managed to get her to comply. Work on that, and get even better at that.

Making her comfortable. Remember she came on a date with you, means she already likes you. To get sexual with you she needs to be emotionally and physically comfortable with you. Connect with her, make an emotional bond, for instance by making her talk. Establish physical contact with her very early.

Ignore the mixed signs. Stars will never align perfectly. And you will face some resistance - just be ready to handle objections.

So now your question about masculine energy. No need to become a caveman. If you just keep pursuing a sexual objective on date one, you will automatically have the masculine aggressiveness that will get you there. Getting to sex fast IS masculine energy. It will be well received, believe me. It is in fact, sort of expected from you. So just do it. You don't have to do much more than that.

If you do the above, there will be some fails initially - but just remember that you probably wouldn't see her again anyway. But as you keep doing it, you will somehow learn how to do it better and eventually succeed. My bet: one third of all these dates (at least) would be ready to go all the way with you. Think about it. That would be 13 girls in a year. More than I did last year (I had 11).

OK good luck EP, and keep posting here on your results!

Seppuku
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:35 am

Thank you my man! Good advice like the last thread. I'll keep at it!

I see where you're coming from by suggesting a professional, but I think I'm going to keep working at it without going down that route. I've thought about the idea of it before, and I've always been pretty confident that it would actually make me feel WORSE.

You see, it's not so much that that being a virgin weighs on my mind. If that's all it was, then I would gladly have gotten that taken care of a while ago and gotten that off my back. What weighs on my mind is simply that as a 30 y/o virgin whose never had a girlfriend, I consider myself a huge loser. Like, as a matter of fact. And it's not like a 'don't care what others think of you' thing. It's entirely what I think. I think if you are an able bodied man, and you don't have a legit religious excuse, if you make it to 30 without any relations with girls, you are a huge loser. It's not the virginity per se. It's the total failure of the situation and the total patheticness of it. So if there's anything in the back of my mind holding me back from top level confidence, it would be this general belief or certainty that I am indeed a loser until I continue working at it, continue making progress, and ultimately counter this horrible life highlight by sleeping with tons of gorgeous girls, finding an excellent one to marry, and turning that huge failure into a huge payoff. In other words, making all of the bad times worth it in the end.

Now, to be perfectly clear, when I'm on dates, I'm not thinking about this belief. 100% of my brain power is focused on the present. Not the past. Entirely on the present. I'm focusing on the conversation, I'm focusing on her responses, I'm trying to read her to see the signals on whether to move forward or not. I'm trying to remember all the things Seppuku told me to do in that one thread :) I'm thinking about logistics, backup plans, you name it. I'm NOT AT ALL thinking the negative thoughts. I'm happy to have the opportunity to try again to figure all this out and to make progress. If I get stuck or blow it, it's because I just haven't learned certain skills at certain points. It's not like I depress myself in the middle of the date and ruin my mood.

So my plan is to just continue meeting girls, going on dates, and assume it'll start producing results. Trusting the process. That is, unless you or any of the coaches here actually believe this incongruence is too impossible to overcome in a timely manner...

Also, I think I mentioned it in another thread, but I really, really want to get my own place and try inviting over girls directly. Either texting them to come over instead of setting up a coffee date, or inviting them over the same night I meet them. And of course it makes it easy to meet for coffee then try moving her home in 30-60 minutes. I just want to test 'moving faster.' For all you and I know, these girls could be attracted and ready to go right off the bat, then get bored or disappointed when I come across as going the traditional dating route. Who knows. But very eager to test it!

Thanks again man, you're the best!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:01 am

1/8/19

Not much of an update today. Went dancing tonight. This night is more of a social circle night so there's very few new girls to open. Basically none. This is a night where it's like 95% about improving dance skills and 5% hoping a new girl or two will be there.

As for all the numbers I'm working on, basically no responses yet. I'll try some of them again tomorrow.

Mood was pretty darn good all day today. Then on the drive back home it fell. It doesn't cease to amaze me how an entirely random thought that just pops into my head can so much affect my mood. In this case, "Jessie's Girl" came on the radio. It has a line "Where can I find a woman like that?" that instantly made my brain start thinking about relationships and that instantly crushed my mood.

Thinking about game, and strategies to improve with women, and the opportunity to meet new girls is cool and fun. But when I think about relationships or other people in relationships it really packs a punch. It depresses me how that hasn't been me for a day in my life. Or how I have yet to meet a cutie that really really wants to have sex with me and wants to make me her boyfriend over all the other options in the world. It's such an alien concept to me. It's so unbelievable.

I read an article here not more than a week or two ago, I think it was by Chase, who talked about how when you see other people in relationships, or if you see a guy with a smoking girl at his side, you should feel positive, happy, or invigorated. You should be thinking 'hell yeah. good for him. good for her. that'll be me soon!' I get it. But my brain just isn't there yet. Seeing anything like that just reminds me of my failure of a life up until this point and is pretty crushing. Oh well. At least it's easy to recover from and at least I'm making progress.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:02 am

1/9/19

Not much of an update today. Met one girl at a work function today. Talked to a friend about her and he said she might be engaged. He offered to find out that intel for me which I appreciate.

The numbers I've been working on continue to go nowhere. Some have responded once or twice, but clearly aren't particularly excited to talk to me and meet up with me anytime soon. Oh well. We'll see if given another week or so if any of them turn into anything. I guess I'm just saying I'm pessimistic.

Felt fine all day until thinking about my journey like 15 minutes ago. Just depressing to think about. Again, oh well. On to the next day.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:21 am

EP what's your main goal with women? Well not main main because I'm sure you want a top notch chick to settle down with, but what is your goal with women? Is it to sleep with a lot then settle down? Get ok enough with them? Try to be a master of women and be single for a while?

I always want men to get really good with women and sleep with a lot no matter what. You deserve it, you put in so much work. I heard some guys just sleep with a couple of chicks and just settle down. I really don't like the idea of that because I feel a guy who learns this stuff and goes through all of this and puts all of this work in deserves to keep pimpin for a while.

Just my opinion though and I was curious.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:05 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:EP what's your main goal with women? Well not main main because I'm sure you want a top notch chick to settle down with, but what is your goal with women? Is it to sleep with a lot then settle down? Get ok enough with them? Try to be a master of women and be single for a while?

I always want men to get really good with women and sleep with a lot no matter what. You deserve it, you put in so much work. I heard some guys just sleep with a couple of chicks and just settle down. I really don't like the idea of that because I feel a guy who learns this stuff and goes through all of this and puts all of this work in deserves to keep pimpin for a while.

Just my opinion though and I was curious.

Of course! Happy to hear your thoughts and to have your help. I have two goals:
1. Yes, to eventually find an AMAZING, top notch chick to settle down/get into LTR with.
2. Sleep with many truly attractive girls. I agree with you completely that after putting in so much time and effort and work to learn how to get good with women, a man should reward himself by, well, drowning in top notch pussy. An additional motivation for me is my loser life until this point. I feel like if I can get a high notch count (high defined as significantly higher than all the standard guys I'll encounter in life, whatever that number may be), I can make up for wasting my youth. Or in other words, by building toward a significant notch count, I can make the terrible years worth it in the end. IE "yeah it sucks he started so late, but it led to him becoming a fucking legend." Something like that haha
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Good stuff my man.




ElderPrice wrote:
Sub-Zero wrote:EP what's your main goal with women? Well not main main because I'm sure you want a top notch chick to settle down with, but what is your goal with women? Is it to sleep with a lot then settle down? Get ok enough with them? Try to be a master of women and be single for a while?

I always want men to get really good with women and sleep with a lot no matter what. You deserve it, you put in so much work. I heard some guys just sleep with a couple of chicks and just settle down. I really don't like the idea of that because I feel a guy who learns this stuff and goes through all of this and puts all of this work in deserves to keep pimpin for a while.

Just my opinion though and I was curious.

Of course! Happy to hear your thoughts and to have your help. I have two goals:
1. Yes, to eventually find an AMAZING, top notch chick to settle down/get into LTR with.
2. Sleep with many truly attractive girls. I agree with you completely that after putting in so much time and effort and work to learn how to get good with women, a man should reward himself by, well, drowning in top notch pussy. An additional motivation for me is my loser life until this point. I feel like if I can get a high notch count (high defined as significantly higher than all the standard guys I'll encounter in life, whatever that number may be), I can make up for wasting my youth. Or in other words, by building toward a significant notch count, I can make the terrible years worth it in the end. IE "yeah it sucks he started so late, but it led to him becoming a fucking legend." Something like that haha
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 am

1/10/19

No updates today. No responses from any of the numbers I'm currently working on. That's like 0 for 6ish. Fuck!

Chase posted a new article today suggesting that if you're hitting a particular wall, you might just be coming across as intimidating to women. I have no idea how a short guy like me could be like that but I guess it's possible. And it would explain my consistent failure despite trying new tweaks to my game. Unfortunately it sounds really fucking hard to make yourself less intimidating. Wonderful. Oh well. At least it's something else to try working on.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 am

Did you check Chase's bullet points on how girls act when they're intimidated? It shows how they act to make sure if they feel comfortable with you or not. Think he said that you can get a better read if there's multiple bullet points together.

How are you meeting women? How did you meet the 6 women that gave you no responses?

That's good work man, keep getting these girls.



ElderPrice wrote:1/10/19

No updates today. No responses from any of the numbers I'm currently working on. That's like 0 for 6ish. Fuck!

Chase posted a new article today suggesting that if you're hitting a particular wall, you might just be coming across as intimidating to women. I have no idea how a short guy like me could be like that but I guess it's possible. And it would explain my consistent failure despite trying new tweaks to my game. Unfortunately it sounds really fucking hard to make yourself less intimidating. Wonderful. Oh well. At least it's something else to try working on.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:49 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:Did you check Chase's bullet points on how girls act when they're intimidated? It shows how they act to make sure if they feel comfortable with you or not. Think he said that you can get a better read if there's multiple bullet points together.

How are you meeting women? How did you meet the 6 women that gave you no responses?

That's good work man, keep getting these girls.



ElderPrice wrote:1/10/19

No updates today. No responses from any of the numbers I'm currently working on. That's like 0 for 6ish. Fuck!

Chase posted a new article today suggesting that if you're hitting a particular wall, you might just be coming across as intimidating to women. I have no idea how a short guy like me could be like that but I guess it's possible. And it would explain my consistent failure despite trying new tweaks to my game. Unfortunately it sounds really fucking hard to make yourself less intimidating. Wonderful. Oh well. At least it's something else to try working on.

1 Quiets and reserves her speech
2 Closes off body language
3 Shrinks the space she takes up with her body
4 Pauses/deliberates before she speaks and answers
5 Keeps her path to the exit clear/open
6 Gives excuses for why she should go
7 Voices reservations she has about comfort/feeling 'right'

Yep, I definitely see those bullet points a lot. Actually I basically always see them at some point. However, I've never heard a girl say #7 before, and I haven't noticed anyone doing #5. They're probably doing it and it's just hard to notice.

With some girls it'll be right as I meet them and try to converse with them. Others it'll be during the date with them. Basically it's rare as fuck to meet a girl legitimately excited to meet me and be around me. Almost all these girls aren't really excited when they gave me their numbers. If I had to categorize them I'd probably categorize them as maybes/fence sitters who figure 'what the heck' and agree to give me their numbers, but then never follow through since they weren't particularly excited to start with.

I met em all at country bars. I asked them to dance, chatted with them, then got their numbers. Most of them (if not all of them) had horrible logistics so nothing could happen the night of. Don't know how much that matters because none of them were giving me the "take me home" eyes anyway.

Thank you for the compliment my friend! Should be lots more opportunities this weekend. Hopefully I'll have some good reports/journals to post!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:34 pm

Ah.... that's most likely the reason why then. Chase and others have told me that clubs and bars are for same night lays and that numbers are pretty much useless. I can attest, I have been doing night game for years and all my girls flake, they can be all over me kissing me all that, get the number and they act very uninterested.

I still like to go to get my social skills better, but I stopped taking numbers for a while.

So still go to the bars and get numbers because it's good for practice, but like you said you get the numbers and then nothing, same thing happened to me and I'm talking years man, and these girls were pursuing me so heavy too.

So yeah, don't get your hopes up, but still go out and get numbers until you feel comfortable enough to get a same night lay.

Are you going out alone?
Are they different bars or the same one?
How many night a week are you going out?

You're putting in work man, I'm guessing you have no problems with aa or going out solo like that, which is very good.





ElderPrice wrote:
Sub-Zero wrote:Did you check Chase's bullet points on how girls act when they're intimidated? It shows how they act to make sure if they feel comfortable with you or not. Think he said that you can get a better read if there's multiple bullet points together.

How are you meeting women? How did you meet the 6 women that gave you no responses?

That's good work man, keep getting these girls.



ElderPrice wrote:1/10/19

No updates today. No responses from any of the numbers I'm currently working on. That's like 0 for 6ish. Fuck!

Chase posted a new article today suggesting that if you're hitting a particular wall, you might just be coming across as intimidating to women. I have no idea how a short guy like me could be like that but I guess it's possible. And it would explain my consistent failure despite trying new tweaks to my game. Unfortunately it sounds really fucking hard to make yourself less intimidating. Wonderful. Oh well. At least it's something else to try working on.

1 Quiets and reserves her speech
2 Closes off body language
3 Shrinks the space she takes up with her body
4 Pauses/deliberates before she speaks and answers
5 Keeps her path to the exit clear/open
6 Gives excuses for why she should go
7 Voices reservations she has about comfort/feeling 'right'

Yep, I definitely see those bullet points a lot. Actually I basically always see them at some point. However, I've never heard a girl say #7 before, and I haven't noticed anyone doing #5. They're probably doing it and it's just hard to notice.

With some girls it'll be right as I meet them and try to converse with them. Others it'll be during the date with them. Basically it's rare as fuck to meet a girl legitimately excited to meet me and be around me. Almost all these girls aren't really excited when they gave me their numbers. If I had to categorize them I'd probably categorize them as maybes/fence sitters who figure 'what the heck' and agree to give me their numbers, but then never follow through since they weren't particularly excited to start with.

I met em all at country bars. I asked them to dance, chatted with them, then got their numbers. Most of them (if not all of them) had horrible logistics so nothing could happen the night of. Don't know how much that matters because none of them were giving me the "take me home" eyes anyway.

Thank you for the compliment my friend! Should be lots more opportunities this weekend. Hopefully I'll have some good reports/journals to post!
Sub-Zero


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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:57 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:Ah.... that's most likely the reason why then. Chase and others have told me that clubs and bars are for same night lays and that numbers are pretty much useless. I can attest, I have been doing night game for years and all my girls flake, they can be all over me kissing me all that, get the number and they act very uninterested.

I still like to go to get my social skills better, but I stopped taking numbers for a while.

So still go to the bars and get numbers because it's good for practice, but like you said you get the numbers and then nothing, same thing happened to me and I'm talking years man, and these girls were pursuing me so heavy too.

So yeah, don't get your hopes up, but still go out and get numbers until you feel comfortable enough to get a same night lay.

Are you going out alone?
Are they different bars or the same one?
How many night a week are you going out?

You're putting in work man, I'm guessing you have no problems with aa or going out solo like that, which is very good.

Haha well then I'm fucked! And I thought dance night was one of the easiest ways to meet women! Now to be clear, I said country bar, but I wouldn't think of it as the bar/club category. I met all these girls out dancing. Like, legit partner dancing. Since it was country it happened to be in country bars. People go to that to dance... it's very different from the super guards up, Hollywood attitudes at night clubs. Don't know if that changes your opinion or not, but I did want to toss that out there, as nights out to go partner dancing seems different than nights out clubbin IMO.

I don't think my issue with same night lays is confidence (but don't get me wrong, it can be much better). It's logistics and just finding girls into it. Show me a girl that's into me and has decent logistics, and I'll push for a same night lay. Absolutely. But show me girls on the fence and with horrible logistics (ie. they live 45 minutes away, they're the DD tonight for their friends, etc.) and I just don't feel like it.

Yes, I'm basically going out alone. I have some new friends that I meet at all these places, but we don't coordinate. They either go or they don't. I either go or I don't.
The last month or so it's been the same bars because they are the most popular and get the highest turnover of new girls week in and week out.
I got out 3 nights a week.

Thanks man!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:49 pm

Chase hasn't mentioned country bars, but from what you're tellin me, it sound exactly like what everyone goes through with clubs and bars lol.

I think it might just be nightlife in general, idk about street pick up, but I know Chase said the best places would be lounges and dive bars and I believe he said to go for sml's there too.

Are you trying to go to their place or bring them to yours ? I know the closer one of you are to the place the better.

With me I live like 30+ minutes away and it feels like a long drive.

I don't know what a person is supposed to do if both of you live far away.





ElderPrice wrote:
Sub-Zero wrote:Ah.... that's most likely the reason why then. Chase and others have told me that clubs and bars are for same night lays and that numbers are pretty much useless. I can attest, I have been doing night game for years and all my girls flake, they can be all over me kissing me all that, get the number and they act very uninterested.

I still like to go to get my social skills better, but I stopped taking numbers for a while.

So still go to the bars and get numbers because it's good for practice, but like you said you get the numbers and then nothing, same thing happened to me and I'm talking years man, and these girls were pursuing me so heavy too.

So yeah, don't get your hopes up, but still go out and get numbers until you feel comfortable enough to get a same night lay.

Are you going out alone?
Are they different bars or the same one?
How many night a week are you going out?

You're putting in work man, I'm guessing you have no problems with aa or going out solo like that, which is very good.

Haha well then I'm fucked! And I thought dance night was one of the easiest ways to meet women! Now to be clear, I said country bar, but I wouldn't think of it as the bar/club category. I met all these girls out dancing. Like, legit partner dancing. Since it was country it happened to be in country bars. People go to that to dance... it's very different from the super guards up, Hollywood attitudes at night clubs. Don't know if that changes your opinion or not, but I did want to toss that out there, as nights out to go partner dancing seems different than nights out clubbin IMO.

I don't think my issue with same night lays is confidence (but don't get me wrong, it can be much better). It's logistics and just finding girls into it. Show me a girl that's into me and has decent logistics, and I'll push for a same night lay. Absolutely. But show me girls on the fence and with horrible logistics (ie. they live 45 minutes away, they're the DD tonight for their friends, etc.) and I just don't feel like it.

Yes, I'm basically going out alone. I have some new friends that I meet at all these places, but we don't coordinate. They either go or they don't. I either go or I don't.
The last month or so it's been the same bars because they are the most popular and get the highest turnover of new girls week in and week out.
I got out 3 nights a week.

Thanks man!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:00 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:Chase hasn't mentioned country bars, but from what you're tellin me, it sound exactly like what everyone goes through with clubs and bars lol.

I think it might just be nightlife in general, idk about street pick up, but I know Chase said the best places would be lounges and dive bars and I believe he said to go for sml's there too.

Are you trying to go to their place or bring them to yours ? I know the closer one of you are to the place the better.

With me I live like 30+ minutes away and it feels like a long drive.

I don't know what a person is supposed to do if both of you live far away.

You might be right about it still being a bar. I'll keep giving it a shot and see if anything changes.

I don't have a place of my own, so the ideal situation would be to get myself over to their's. If we both live far away and the logistics are pure garbage, then that only leaves a couple options:
- pull her to your car
- get a hotel room
- public sex

Hopefully I can get a place of my own soon and start experimenting with that whole new catalog of possibilities.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:15 pm

1/11/19 Good night

This wasn't really a successful night in terms of pulling/getting new numbers/etc. It was just a solid, fun night and it's definitely a good night after being depressed for a lot of the week.

Some friends threw a party by reserving some space at a big bar in town. I saw a good number of acquaintances that I haven't seen in a couple months (including a number of girls) and there was a decent number of new people to meet too.

The girls that I knew here that I had met before either I wasn't particularly crazy about or they just weren't into me... that's why I never grabbed their contact info or dated them before. For the ones that are cute enough that I wouldn't mind if something happened, I've placed them in experimentation categories, IE I want to see if some of these girls will start chasing me, I want to see if a couple of these girls - who outright declined to give me their numbers in the past but still are friendly and possibly toss out some signs of interest here and there - can be won with a long-term game, etc.

I did get a couple of these girls to add me on social media (including one who would not give me her number lol) so I'd count that as a 'getting new numbers' win. But I don't care about that tonight. It was just a fun, social night and the only way it could have gone better was if there were some girls there that particularly excited me. On to tonight!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:18 am

1/12/19 Wow, what a horribly out of nowhere terrible night

It doesn't cease to amaze me how the littlest things can just destroy my mood and sink me into depression.

Tonight was another dance night. I felt 'bleh' going into it. I think I just need to make sure I warmup before really getting to work. Last night was as perfect a warmup as it gets, and I killed it socially. Tonight was lacking warmup so I never really got into a good state. Regardless, it was an odd dance night. The floor was packed with people just standing there or doing individual, club-like dancing. Every, and I mean every time I've ever gone partner dancing at a venue like this, the masses always get out of the way of the partner dancing. All the swinging and fancy moves send a subconscious signal for others to get out of the way. This was the first time ever it didn't happen. Not only did they not move, but that mass of people actually kept consuming more floor space as the night went on. It was very annoying and also contributed to keeping me from reaching a good state.

After about an hour there I changed venues to a different establishment for dancing. It was also unusually packed, but there was more room on the dance floor, so it was much more fun. There were some pretty cute girls there as well, so my mood was getting better.

Then I talked to a new guy friend of mine.

He is happy to talk about girls and to provide advice. He's older, in his 40s. He's definitely NOT the best person to consult on the subject, but he has a lot of experience. I'm eager to listen because I'm very curious for the opinions of anyone who's good with girls, and I'm always keeping an eye open for an in-person mentor. He complimented me on my dancing with a super cute girl. I fucked that one up by not getting contact info right after dancing with her. I for some reason was fine with the "let's dance again later" (a re-approach) and I'm sure you can guess what happens next - her and her friends leave not even 20 minutes later. Fuck me. Anyway, I go talk to my friend as we're both resting and I tell him how I fucked up by not getting her number.

He says good, you don't want to ask for contact info anyway. He then goes into his beliefs about women and dating. The bulk of it is in line with the general GC/PUA concepts, stuff like the law of least effort, being a lover not a boyfriend, let her do the chasing, etc. He believes it's not a strong thing to ask for contact info. He believes that if you meet a girl out dancing, then the odds are high you'll see her again. Be different by not asking for her contact info, be mysterious every time you see her, and then, eventually, possibly months later, she will start chasing you. I don't think I'll take that advice, but that's not the point.

The point is, as he's talking about all these things that happen to him, and as he's stating them in a "they happen to everyone" or "this is how it works" type of way, I instantly fall into a depression. What cemented it was when I told him NONE of what he's talking about ever happens to me.
- "Don't chase girls and ask for their numbers. They will come to you." Me: Uhhh there's tons of girls here that I've met, danced with, and expressed no interest in seeing again. Not one has even shown one shred of interest in chasing me and nobody has come close to giving me their number unasked.
- "blah blah I meet girls here, I meet many online blah blah" Me: I was on apps for a year. I couldn't get responses or matches with anything over a 4 to save my life. And that's with three sets of photos taken by photographer friends. Online dating simply does not work for me unless I hire some sort of wizard to take my photos for hundreds or who knows, thousands of dollars.
So "this is how it works for every guy" where my experience is "well, that never happens to me." Instant depression. Instant reminder of how fucked up I am and I have no idea how. Instant reminder that something is so fucked up about me I can't even get a girl purely from luck. It wasn't just the negative thoughts, but I don't think I've ever told someone in person how bad it's been for me before. In other words, responding to everything with "that's nice man. that never happens to me..." is what really sealed the depression. I was even getting close to crying, that's how emotional this topic is for me. I left right then and there because my mood was toast and there was no way to recover. No reason to hang around and provide everyone with depressing energy. On the drive back my eyes started to water. I know I've posted some journal entries lately about feeling down, but it's been a while since I've been THAT depressed. At least a few months.

I don't really know what to do here. I assume just wait it out and a positive day will come around sooner or later. I'll keep talking to this friend in Facebook and NOT in person so the topic can't ruin my mood and future dance nights. I'll keep picking his brain and seeing if he has any specific suggestions. Other than that I don't know. I really, really wish at least one girl could find me attractive enough to chase me. That would be so refreshing. It would be a major confirmation that I'm for sure doing some things right. All these dud numbers and dates that all die the exact same way is just screaming that there's something about me that's so 100% wrong, but I have no clue what. It's a horrible feeling. It feels like hopelessness, futility, and failure.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:27 am

Don't be too hard on yourself man, at least you went out even though you really didn't want to. I didn't go out because I felt I would be wasting my money and time, no one is perfect.

I wouldn't take that guys advice at all tbh, you will feel like shit, like you did. Waiting for girls to chase you is not an option, especially if he Is actually going to tell you to wait for a girl to ask you out months after you dance with her. Wtf is that?

Even if that was 100% true, do you really want to play that game? I would not listen to that type of advice, you will get oneitis and where you're at right now, you do not need oneitits or you will feel 10x worse.

Imagine liking a girl so much, you just wish she would ask you out, you go to the bar week after week hoping she asks you out after your magnificent dance, you can guess the rest.

So no, do not wait girls to chase you, it helps to get signals from girls to approach, but that's it.

Here at gc we don't move slow.

Chase has many articles where he says he felt just like you, I'm sure all of the authors felt the same exact way when they were learning this shit.

Do not tell this man you wish this stuff would happen to you like it does for him. It makes you sound weak man, that's why you felt so bad. If you said it in a way like, "yeah, wish I could get girls to chase me with no effort" with a chill tone. Make you sound like you're chill.

You gotta go through these nights man and just push on, I know it's tough bro, but you have to really not be down on yourself.

You said you only attract 4s, well, use them as positive feedback that girls do like you.

The girls you like don't want you now because you either haven't approached them or you haven't leveled yourself up enough to make them want you, which you can fix.

Keep the updates coming man, good shit.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Sub-Zero wrote:Don't be too hard on yourself man, at least you went out even though you really didn't want to. I didn't go out because I felt I would be wasting my money and time, no one is perfect.

I wouldn't take that guys advice at all tbh, you will feel like shit, like you did. Waiting for girls to chase you is not an option, especially if he Is actually going to tell you to wait for a girl to ask you out months after you dance with her. Wtf is that?

Even if that was 100% true, do you really want to play that game? I would not listen to that type of advice, you will get oneitis and where you're at right now, you do not need oneitits or you will feel 10x worse.

Imagine liking a girl so much, you just wish she would ask you out, you go to the bar week after week hoping she asks you out after your magnificent dance, you can guess the rest.

So no, do not wait girls to chase you, it helps to get signals from girls to approach, but that's it.

Here at gc we don't move slow.

Chase has many articles where he says he felt just like you, I'm sure all of the authors felt the same exact way when they were learning this shit.

Do not tell this man you wish this stuff would happen to you like it does for him. It makes you sound weak man, that's why you felt so bad. If you said it in a way like, "yeah, wish I could get girls to chase me with no effort" with a chill tone. Make you sound like you're chill.

You gotta go through these nights man and just push on, I know it's tough bro, but you have to really not be down on yourself.

You said you only attract 4s, well, use them as positive feedback that girls do like you.

The girls you like don't want you now because you either haven't approached them or you haven't leveled yourself up enough to make them want you, which you can fix.

Keep the updates coming man, good shit.

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your support. I really do.

I think you missed the line in the post where I said I'm NOT taking his advice there haha. Turns out my friend is a MGTOW guy. Trust me, I'm 100% GC. I 100% recognize when he says something crazy like that line about contact info haha.

I said I only matched with 4s or worse in online dating. In real life it's much much better.

Yeah I know. I just wish I could figure out what's wrong with me. Like, I have no idea. I have no idea how to troubleshoot to find out. Seppuku gave terrific suggestions of some things to try on dates. But when it comes to day to day... it's just puzzling. And of course super super frustrating. Honestly, it hasn't been fun for the last couple months.

That's probably the #1 thing I should do for myself. Have some fun. Unfortunately I'm horrible at it. Probably as horrible at it as I am with girls. I really, really struggle to find ways to have fun. Even if you gave me $100,000 today and told me to spent it today and have fun, I'd have no idea what to do.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:33 am

Yeah tbh no one can tell u what you're doing wrong without seeing you. I was told this as well.

But Chase has made many articles where I think anyone can find out where they lack at.

You could pay for someone to coach you off here and help you or you can just read the articles and find out what it could be.

The last one Chase made was a very good one that I don't think many would have thought of on their own.

But if all the problems you have are just getting girls back home, read the articles about dates and what to ask on dates, also improve your sexiness day in and out.

And no problem bro.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:30 am

Sub-Zero wrote:Yeah tbh no one can tell u what you're doing wrong without seeing you. I was told this as well.

But Chase has made many articles where I think anyone can find out where they lack at.

You could pay for someone to coach you off here and help you or you can just read the articles and find out what it could be.

The last one Chase made was a very good one that I don't think many would have thought of on their own.

But if all the problems you have are just getting girls back home, read the articles about dates and what to ask on dates, also improve your sexiness day in and out.

And no problem bro.

Agreed. No one can really know without seeing me. So I suppose I'm just fishing for opinions on what it can be, and I've definitely got some helpful suggestions!

The main, concrete pattern problem I've had is I can't convert on dates to save me. I've never hooked up with a girl the night I met her, but I chalk that up to terrible logistics on my end.

Any articles in particular that you like? I need to re-read 'When Your Approach Just Isn't Working.' It's been a while since I've read that so I'm sure I can get some interesting thoughts from there.

Thanks again man!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:41 am

1/13/19 Much better night

Woke up still depressed. But felt better after watching some YouTube videos. RSD Tyler is a legend and just watching him talk will improve your mood guaranteed. But I also watching some videos on new dance moves. Lately I think I mission-creep'd myself from going out to dance for fun to going out to dance to meet girls.

Tonight I knew I was going to go out dancing again because I knew the socializing and the fun would be great and because bad nights and good nights happen. But because I watched those dance videos, I went out planning to try some new moves on the floor. That helped make the night out more about dancing rather than girls.

It ended up being a great night. Saw and danced with many female friends, tried the new dance moves to great success, and got contact info from three girls. [Two I had already met and are more in the friends category. Only one was brand new and was the one I'd like to take on a date. She hasn't responded yet haha].

So lessons to learn from this weekend:
- ALWAYS WARM UP. ALWAYS. The night hasn't begun until you've opened 20 people.
- Don't talk about my journey with other guys as I'm out and about. It's just depressing. Save it for texting on another day haha
- Remember to dance for the sake of dancing and having fun. Always be looking up new moves or technical details to work on on the dance floor. It focuses the mind on dancing, not on picking up girls (in a good way).
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Sub-Zero » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:07 pm

I like too many of Chase's articles to be honest. I'll say that if you're having a hard time or something, just look up an article for advice on it and read the article again. It helps me to remember things I forget.






ElderPrice wrote:
Sub-Zero wrote:Yeah tbh no one can tell u what you're doing wrong without seeing you. I was told this as well.

But Chase has made many articles where I think anyone can find out where they lack at.

You could pay for someone to coach you off here and help you or you can just read the articles and find out what it could be.

The last one Chase made was a very good one that I don't think many would have thought of on their own.

But if all the problems you have are just getting girls back home, read the articles about dates and what to ask on dates, also improve your sexiness day in and out.

And no problem bro.

Agreed. No one can really know without seeing me. So I suppose I'm just fishing for opinions on what it can be, and I've definitely got some helpful suggestions!

The main, concrete pattern problem I've had is I can't convert on dates to save me. I've never hooked up with a girl the night I met her, but I chalk that up to terrible logistics on my end.

Any articles in particular that you like? I need to re-read 'When Your Approach Just Isn't Working.' It's been a while since I've read that so I'm sure I can get some interesting thoughts from there.

Thanks again man!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:16 am

Mid to end of January 2019 - Got lucky, but still got things to figure out

Not too much to report during this time. One week I was out of town (with nothing to report unfortunately), another week I was under the weather. Maybe another week it was same old same old.

All numbers I currently have to work on aren't even getting responses. Except one. One girl who I've known mostly as an acquaintance and just recently got her number seems to be into me. I haven't asked her out. I think this week I'll try and see what happens. She's very cute and has a sexy side, but at the same time she just isn't my type. So she hasn't excited me to move faster, such as when I first met her many months ago.

Now, despite all of that, I'm happy to report that I finally got lucky and got a LR-!

This one was COMPLETE luck. I finally, for the first time ever, had a girl make things easy. It was so fucking refreshing, I can't describe how like a breath of fresh air it feels. Now don't get me wrong. I definitely helped make my own luck. I would not have succeeded without knowing the GC principles. I still needed the content here to know how to move things forward, escalate, be intimate, etc. For more details, check out the LR on the FR board!

During the not so successful days during this time period, I kept reading here to try and find areas where I can approve. There's definitely something big missing with me. Girls are just so neutral with me. I ended up stumbling on this article I haven't read before: How to Get a Girl's Attention and Keep It (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-get-girls-attention-and-keep-it).

Early in this article, Chase lists some ways women show interest:
They play with their hair around you -- the more, the better
They steal glances at you
They sit near you
They stand near you
They open you, talk to you randomly, or ask you for help
They hit you or slap you, laugh at your jokes, or otherwise make you notice them

Girls just don't do these to me. Sure, maybe older ones or unattractive ones or ones with kids, but a childless girls in her 20s who's remotely attractive? Very very rare. Essentially never. They don't play with their hair. They don't come and sit by me. If I stand near them (or seemingly, anyone) they end up walking away. Like, if I stand in an area near people I'll be all by myself within a couple minutes. No fucking clue why. Even if I'm just standing there doing nothing else. Anyway, they also do NOT open me. Ever ever ever. They might politely laugh at my jokes, but they definitely don't do anything to make me notice them.

Chase breaks attention down to 3 elements:
Noticing
Assessing (attractive or not? attainable or not?)
Taking Action

Currently we know she's not doing the last one. Perhaps I'm failing at the second one? I'm pretty sure I'm overall attractive. Maybe an attainability issue? That's still one of the few concepts here I can't seem to get my head around. Or of course it could be the first and I'm not getting girls to notice me in the first place.

To get girls attention, Chase suggestions 6 things.
1. Start peacocking
2. Be loud
3. Be effortless
4. Be playful
5. Position yourself well
6. Pose

My thoughts on where I'm at with these:
1. I've never peacocked. I consider myself well dressed. But not peacocking at all. I don't really own any accessories.
2. Not sure here. Probably needs improvement. I'd like to think I'm noticed when I'm killing it on the dance floor or working the room at a meetup.
3. I think I'm good here...
4. Good here
5. Could be good, could be better. Depends on the situation.
6. Not sure how I look but I'm consciously trying to stand with good body language.

So as a result of all this, now I'm wondering if I'm having issues getting girls attention in the first place. It would explain why young, attractive girls are basically an impossible demographic for me. Or again could it be an attainability issue somehow? Don't know. But I'll work on these areas and see what I can uncover.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ray_zorse » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:19 pm

hey dude,

So far I have only read the introductory post, based on the title I had an inkling it would touch on confidence issues and your upbringing, which it did. It always does. The height and the acne thing are extra challenges (for me an extra challenge is that I wear powerful hearing aids), however I would wager that the bigger issue is the confidence issue and the not having been affirmed regularly while growing up.

As a dude who was also quite unsuccessful with women until late 30s, and still struggles a bit with psychological issues, I recommend as one part of your improvement strategy to look at inner game quite carefully. Depending on how much ground is to be made up you might benefit from reading books on toxic shame (see John Bradshaw) and/or learning about affirmations and guided meditations.

Anyhow, I saw you are posting FRs and that is wonderful. Action is the best medicine. The direction of such action may be tweaked as you gain experience. But there must be action in the first place. Stick at it! We are all barracking for you :) :) :)

cheers,
Ray
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:22 pm

ray_zorse wrote:hey dude,

So far I have only read the introductory post, based on the title I had an inkling it would touch on confidence issues and your upbringing, which it did. It always does. The height and the acne thing are extra challenges (for me an extra challenge is that I wear powerful hearing aids), however I would wager that the bigger issue is the confidence issue and the not having been affirmed regularly while growing up.

As a dude who was also quite unsuccessful with women until late 30s, and still struggles a bit with psychological issues, I recommend as one part of your improvement strategy to look at inner game quite carefully. Depending on how much ground is to be made up you might benefit from reading books on toxic shame (see John Bradshaw) and/or learning about affirmations and guided meditations.

Anyhow, I saw you are posting FRs and that is wonderful. Action is the best medicine. The direction of such action may be tweaked as you gain experience. But there must be action in the first place. Stick at it! We are all barracking for you :) :) :)

cheers,
Ray

Thanks for the kind words Ray!

This journal is now about a month old and perhaps I'm dedicating a lot of time to this because it feels like I'm learning a lot really quickly. For instance, currently I'm in a good mood. Got a LR- recently out of pure luck which was sooo refreshing. And I have a couple girls I'm working on. So where I'm going with this is I think a lesson I've learned is that my 'inner game' is largely a function of my mood. If times are going bad, then yeah, of course I'm going to feel terrible on the inside. But when times are good, or similarly, when I make sure I make a lot of my focus on simply having fun, then yeah, I'm going to feel much better on the inside. Honestly when I'm feeling good and having fun with life, all those negative thoughts focused on the past just go away.

My experiences on the matter, at least!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:18 am

2/4/19

A very meh weekend. Just same old same old results. Girls that are the least bit attractive just aren't into me or have literally zero margin for error. Because of this I think I might be getting tired of dancing. I'm sure when I'm in a better mood and take some time off it'll be fun again, but for now I've gone out dancing enough now where I clearly see the results, and little tweaks here and there don't make a fucking difference. I'm either just not catching girls attention, or my attainability is just royally fucked up. Still trying to understand attainability and how to fix mine (assuming it's even the problem...). Still trying to figure out what's wrong with me.

I re-read Chase's "What To Do When Your Approach Just Isn't Working." Out of everything on the list, I think the ones I'm missing the mark on are #1 and #4: my vibe is wrong and I'm not tailoring myself to the women I want.

As far as vibe goes, I've never had a freaking clue what my vibe is like. I've read every single article Chase listed in his vibe section in that article. I don't really know what to do differently here. I assume since I can't catch attractive girls attention my vibe definitely sucks, but again I have no clue. I'm going to try again asking some friends for impressions. Didn't work the last time I tried it. It almost seemed like they just gave polite answers and were holding back the truth. Who knows.

Regarding tailoring myself to the women I want, yeah I've been aware of this, and I'll keep trying to do it. This week I'm going to try finding other types of girls. Salsa girls just aren't interested, country girls just aren't interested, etc. I've always wanted to give a legit try toward nerdy girls, but I don't really know where to find them week in and week out. At least dancing girls are always at dance night. But nerdy girls? Yeah a comic convention is great, but that's once a year... Going to need more options. I found some possibly nerd-oriented meetups this week that are having big events, so my plan is to attend those and see what transpires. I'm not going to solely game. It would be great to make some friends and find out where all the nerdy peeps hang out each week.

That's the plan for this week!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:53 am

2/10/19 Decent week/weekend. Starting to recognize some strengths. Also may have witnessed first instance of social proof.

First, during the week I attended a couple meetup events. They looked like they would draw a good size crowd with a decent number of girls. Girls didn't end up going to either. But at this point I'd say meetups may very well be my strongest suit. Or to be more precise, not so much meetup events, but events where there's a bunch of people to mingle with and you're all there to meet people, not embarrass yourselves, and have fun. I think I'm just pretty good at socializing/cold approaching especially compared to others. At these things, everyone is nervous to meet others and to start a conversation. I'm the one guy there working the room like a politician, trying to say hi to as many people as possible and trying to get to know everyone. No doubt the girls there notice and are impressed. Anyway, TLDR, the events this week were lame, but I'm feeling pretty good about meetups/parties. I need to find more events like this! Actual meetup events aren't regular enough.

For the weekend, I went dancing again. I know I said previously that I might want to cut back on it, but this week I couldn't come up with anything else to do instead, and it IS still fun. Also both nights I felt tired for whatever reason. So part of me wanted to test the responses I got from being a little out of it. Being tired definitely made me more DGAF than normal, but I was still able to shoot the shit, be playful, socialize, etc like any other night.

Friday night went well. The Friday venue I'm going to is starting to attract a TON of people from the dancing friends group. On any night of the week, there's, I don't know, 5-15 friends that'll be at a venue. On Friday it's getting to 30-40. As a result, when I got there, I wasn't running out of people to say hi to, high five, hug hello, dance with, etc. So therefore, when I met these 5 or so girls who I hadn't met before and weren't in the group, they were definitely interested in me. No aloofness here! I chalk it up to the social proof. If I was talking to one of these girls, a female friend would come up and ask me to dance. When I was talking to another, a bunch of guy friends strolled in so I had to high five them all. Good stuff. Of all these interested girls, I was only into two of them. One was with her date so I left that alone (but I got her friend's FB info so I can probably get connected with this girl down the line if I wanted to), and the other I got her number. She was really into me, super super cute, but drunk, and her friend revealed she has kids, which is a major turn off for me. I'll bang her if it happens, but other than that, oh well.

Can't complain about Saturday. Same venue that I've been going to for a couple months now. Met one super cute girl who was definitely into me, but I have a gut feeling I killed the interaction somehow. My thought is I danced with her too much. Oh well. I'll try texting her this week and we'll see for sure.

The downsize from this weekend is me remembering why I hate shopping so much. One goal for this weekend was to go and buy some new clothes. I mainly wanted some new, casual shirts and I started exploring buying some accessories for the first time too. I have measurements that are basically the opposite of the average guy. I'm short, muscular, with broad shoulders. In essence, nobody makes shirts catering to that frame. In the past I've tried on every shirt from every brand in the mall, and I found ONE that fit me well. It was one brand's t-shirt. Their other kinds of shirts didn't fit. Just their t-shirts. Weird, right? So basically for casual shirts, I just have that t-shirt in 10 or so different colors. I don't like this and want more variety and more "proper" shirts for different purposes. So I went to some stores, tried on some shirts, and instantly remembered doing this previously. Once again, absolutely nothing fit. Not even close.

So my goal for this coming week is to look online and see what made-to-measure options exist, particularly at the price point I want. I'm also going to brainstorm what accessories to look into. I don't want cheap, generic rings and bracelets and shit. I'd like them to be a little more relevant and actually communicate something about me. We'll see what I can find online.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:33 pm

2/17/19 Good weekend. Good things happen when you approach. Curious if I'm seeing a pattern regarding height. Trying to make significant changes since I'm convinced something is very wrong about my game.

No lays, but not a bad weekend. Both Friday and Saturday night went out dancing. They were fun nights and I met several new girls. Got contact info from 5.... 4 numbers and 1 Snapchat from a girl who said she has a long distance boyfriend.

I probably should count my approaches one of these days because I didn't meet all that many new girls. Maybe 20? So definitely a strong number conversion rate. Plus there were a couple girls thrown in there who were into me but had boyfriends so I didn't bother or feel like asking. I'm sure there were a couple other girls thrown in there who would have given me their numbers if I asked, but they didn't excite me so I didn't bother.

One girl was a fantastic demonstration of the idea that you should probably approach far more than what your brain feels comfortable with. Let me give an example. So almost always when I go out to dance, I hang around the dance floor. I obviously like to dance, but it's also easiest to look for girls to open/ask to dance who are also near the dance floor. Or stated differently, it's sort of strange to leave the dance floor, walk to the entire opposite side of the establishment where people are sitting and drinking/eating, and ask them to dance, or open them in general. Usually they aren't interested in dancing (if they would, they'd be by the dance floor...). It's basically a 'walk up to a group of friends and start talking' type of thing. Standard instance of approach anxiety.

Anyway, I walked to that opposite side to visit the less crowded back bar to get some water. I was passing by a table on my way to the bar when a ton of people walking from the opposite direction came through. I stopped to let them go by. At the same time a girl at the table I was passing got up at the exact same time to also go to the bar. She also was just standing there waiting for everyone to pass. We coincidentally were facing each other, we looked at each other and realized we were doing the exact same thing. Easy peasy opener. On top of that, she was extremely attractive. Super short (my favorite) and enormous tits that were just barely being held in her dress. We started chatting and she hooked immediately. I asked her to dance, she said yes, and she kept wanting to dance with me for multiple songs in a row. She may have had a lot to drink that night... Yadda yadda yadda I got her number and she got taken back by her friends. Apparently it was her birthday and her friends weren't happy that she left the group for 20-30 minutes to flirt with a guy. I haven't heard from her yet so I'm not expecting to see her again, but point being, this was a great example for why you should approach a lot, even the seemingly difficult situations. You never know when one of those girls will be absolutely thrilled to have met you.

After this weekend, I'm curious if I'm starting to see a pattern with the results I'm getting with girls with regards to their height. I'm not talking just this weekend, but throughout my entire journey, short girls just seem easier than everyone else. They just seem more open to meeting me, giving me their numbers, and just talking to me in general. They don't seem as disinterested as everyone else. All the numbers I got this weekend were from shorter girls. I still don't think I've had a tall girl excited to meet me and give me her number and that's despite the exact same approach and the same confidence used when approaching them, conversing with them, and communicating intent.

I can't say for 100%, but it sure seems like it's a strong possibility that shorter girls are more open to me, while same height or taller girls just aren't. I've read all the articles here that make it clear that height isn't an issue and I agree with them completely. I guess it's just another example that something in my game is pretty wrong. Something about me isn't convincing them to drop their "he's not my type" reasoning.

The one thing I've been trying to do better at lately is my clothing. My clothing has always been in that 'good bare minimum' category. Solid color tshirts that fit near-perfectly. Dark, fitted jeans. Clean canvas shoes. A little styling in my hair. A trimmed beard. No fouls whatsoever, but no killer fashion sense either.

I don't know if I'll ever be a fashionable guy. That's just never been my personality for a number of reasons. But I'm trying. This week I bought two new pairs of jeans. One of them a gray pair. I've never had jeans that weren't blue, so that's brand new to me. It looked like a good, multi-functional color in the wardrobe so I'm eager to try it out when I get it back from the tailor.

I also tried multiple times this week to get new shirts. Not tshirts. I'd like to try long sleeve casual button downs. But I'm running into a problem I've ALWAYS faced which makes me HATE shopping: absolutely no shirt off the rack fits, not even close. Every single brand makes way too low armholes, and then couple that with my abnormal measurements. I'm short so I need Smalls for the proper neck sizes and slimmer mid-sections. But I'm muscular so I need at least a Medium for the chest size. Then I have broad shoulders so the shoulder length is usually off too. I went out to the stores 3 times this week to look for shirts, just looking for something that fits in the shoulders and chest, and just have a tailor do the rest. But nothing came close. My plan for this week is to explore more online. Hopefully I can find a good site that can make custom shirts for a good price.

So all in all I'm going to work on improving my appearance via my wardrobe. I may also look into teeth whitening. My teeth aren't yellow, but they can be whiter. I may also look into adding a ring, or a necklace. I've never ever been a jewelry or accessory guy before so that will be new. I'll look online. I don't want general shit like a plain ring or plain bracelets you can get at any store. I'd prefer something more intentional, that actually tells the other person a little bit about me.

We'll see if any of that makes a difference and starts helping me catch the attention and hook more attractive and higher quality girls.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:36 pm

2/21/19 Depressed, found a couple interesting articles about positivity

Don't know why exactly, but this week I've been depressed. I mean, it's due to my lack of success with girls, but nothing in particular triggered it. I have a few girls in the fire that are at least responding to my texts, but I haven't gotten any commitments to meet up yet. I'm optimistic.

When I get depressed I almost always try and find new articles that will speak to me, snap me out of it, and give me something significant to work on that I hadn't considered before. This time I stumbled across a couple articles that particularly resonated with me. This is rare, but when it happens it's a good thing. It's that ah-ha that I'm looking for. Anyway, these two articles right here on GC are:

Be the Lightbringer: Dating and the Sublime Benefits of Positivity
Having a Positive Outlook vs. Solving Every Little Detail

These struck me when Chase talked about being someone who seemingly has all the fundamentals down but just isn't getting the results they want, and when Cody talked about well, as his title suggests, the person who tries to solve every little single detail. What these articles lead to is the idea of how important it is to just be positive. Positivity just solves a lot of problems and it's hard to advance without positivity.

It struck me because this might be a big problem for me. I wholeheartedly don't think I'm negative. I always try to smile and be as positive as I can, and I definitely don't SAY anything negative about others. I don't complain when around women. Nothing like that. But I definitely could work on being more positive. So I'm not negative. But I'm not overly positive. Maybe I'm just perfectly neutral in my demeanor. Maybe I LEAN positive since I have been able to talk to girls, flirt with them, socialize with them, get their numbers, and get dates with them. But maybe my results aren't what I want because I'm not positive ENOUGH.

As I've said in previous posts, I definitely need to work on complimenting. I actually never compliment. Not by choice. It just doesn't naturally flow out of me. I'm working on changing that. And after these articles, I'm going to work on being more expressive of my positive thoughts and feelings. If I enjoy spending time with someone (be it anyone, not just a girl), I should tell them. If I'm very happy that I was able to meet an awesome person, I should tell them. If I look forward to hanging out with certain friends, I should tell them that. This is starting to sound a lot like the topic of 'qualifying' mentioned here relative to girls, another topic I'm consciously trying to improve upon.

Because wearing positivity on my sleeve is something new to my personality that I've never done before (I was always the shy/introverted type during my youth), my plan is to obviously try to be more positive in person, but I also want to read a little bit into ways of showing positivity that I hadn't considered or just can't really come up with myself. If anyone has any recommendations, that would be awesome. Otherwise it's another date with Ms. Google :)
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:26 pm

2/24/19 Goodbye salsa scene

Last night went out to salsa night for the first time in a couple weeks. After months of salsa nights as well as other styles (country, swing, etc), I think I can now conclude salsa night and salsa girls are just a futile endeavor and a waste of time - at least for me, right now.

Compared to the girls in other dances, salsa girls are just cold. On a country night for instance, I can always find girls who are excited to meet me, friendly, and happy to dance. On a country night, I can get a "yes" from every girl I ask to dance, regardless of my skill or theirs.

Salsa girls aren't excited to meet me, they don't bite on friendly or playful conversation, and there's always a significant percentage of girls who say no to a dance. They just aren't as friendly as girls in other scenes, despite the exact same 'approach' at each.

I know what I'd have to do to improve here - mainly become of her 'salsa' type. That doesn't interest me. Salsa girls don't interest me enough to do that. So at least for a long while I've decided to stop going to salsa nights. It's better to use my time in other venues that lend to a much more positive and fun experience. Not just referring to girls, but the whole experience - dancing for fun, meeting friends, meeting new friendly people. All that.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Científico » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:01 pm

Hey ElderPrice - I can say from personal experience that salsa is great for meeting women. I've been getting numbers, dates, girlfriends, sex, and relationships (including my 4-year LTR) from salsa for the past 10 years or so. But the same is almost certainly true for every other social dance scene, including swing, tango, whatever. Focus on getting good at one of the scenes and making that the primary one in which you know the dance well (women like it when you are good at the dance), genuinely enjoy the music and meet the most people, but feel free to dabble in the other ones on the side.

All the way back in 2011, one of the hottest lays I've ever had in my life was a girl I met at salsa, took out on a 1st date to a swing dancing venue down the street from my apartment, then pulled back to my place afterwards - without realizing it at the time, I had the perfect logistical set-up, and a unique date in which I was giving the girl a unique dance experience distinct from what she normally gets.

If you are doing multiple dance scenes you might be able to pull that off (just beware of a venue that is too crowded - taking a girl on a dancing date with too many other male leads there is asking for trouble).
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Científico wrote:Hey ElderPrice - I can say from personal experience that salsa is great for meeting women. I've been getting numbers, dates, girlfriends, sex, and relationships (including my 4-year LTR) from salsa for the past 10 years or so. But the same is almost certainly true for every other social dance scene, including swing, tango, whatever. Focus on getting good at one of the scenes and making that the primary one in which you know the dance well (women like it when you are good at the dance), genuinely enjoy the music and meet the most people, but feel free to dabble in the other ones on the side.

All the way back in 2011, one of the hottest lays I've ever had in my life was a girl I met at salsa, took out on a 1st date to a swing dancing venue down the street from my apartment, then pulled back to my place afterwards - without realizing it at the time, I had the perfect logistical set-up, and a unique date in which I was giving the girl a unique dance experience distinct from what she normally gets.

If you are doing multiple dance scenes you might be able to pull that off (just beware of a venue that is too crowded - taking a girl on a dancing date with too many other male leads there is asking for trouble).

Hey man, thanks for the thoughts. I agree regarding dancing. If anyone wants to get better with girls, I'd recommend they go do some sort of dancing. Salsa is probably a great choice in many cities and for many people. All I'm saying is that for me and for all the other dance styles I could be spending my time on, salsa is by far the worst ROI. I just don't get ANY interest from those girls.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:01 am

2/27/19 A little depressed

For the past couple days I've been a little depressed. The recent batch of numbers I've gotten have gone nowhere. No dates on the horizon. The last couple nights out dancing weren't good nights with regards to meeting new girls. Still working on my new clothing, so no changes there at the moment.

But I'm not majorly depressed in the past because I have some things to work on. Having some clear areas to work on always takes the edge off the depression because it provides some clear signs of immediate hope. In this case, I know my appearance (clothing) will be improving soon because I have some new bling on its way in the mail, and by this weekend at the latest I plan to check out a local MTM shop to order some new shirts.

The most interesting thing I've thought about lately is that I may have identified a huge issue with my overall vibe or demeanor. You see, regardless of my mood - whether it's the absolute best I've ever felt or the worst - my demeanor is about the same. I'm just a stoic guy. I'm not expressive. I don't wear my emotions on my sleeve. I don't get riled up. I don't let things get under my skin.

I think this is hindering me. There are people that I've met that I really like, but I can totally understand how they wouldn't know it from interacting with me. I've commented before about how I'm terrible at giving compliments. Well, if I don't verbally communicate positivity, and my body language doesn't communicate positivity - again even when I'm feeling my absolute best and happiest - NO WONDER I struggle to get anything from girls and NO WONDER I NEVER get invited to things by old or new friends.

This would explain some things.

But how the hell do I undo this? How does a guy change his personality to THIS extent? Is it even possible? I read an article here from Halvor who talked about the idea that guys should make sure they're using a game style that suits them. I believe this was his Alpha vs. Sigma article. Basically, he either said or implied that something like the 'Alpha' route might not be the best style for everyone. Introverted guys might actually do better with girls by not trying to be 'alpha.' Anyway I bring this up to ask - is there a style that works well with being a low expressive guy? Or do I have to train myself to communicate - verbally and through body language - my positive emotions?

Been thinking lately about texting every awesome person I've met this past year (just talking friends here) and telling them straight up, out of nowhere, that I'm very happy and grateful to have met them and that I always have a great time hanging out with them. It would be very random and probably oddly out of character, but there's no harm in that, right? It wouldn't be too weird or anything, right? I think I'll try it.

As far as girls go, I think I just have to consciously focus every time I go out from here on out on complimenting. Maybe make a rule - no conversation without a sincere compliment. Hopefully better clothing and expressing my positive feelings as best as possible can help me get past this huge, overall sticking point.

Anyone have any tips on how to do better at expressing one's positive feelings - both verbally and through body language?
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Científico » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:24 am

ElderPrice, I can relate. Right now I have an extraordinarily high flake rate to the numbers I get and no solid prospects, which leads to brief episodes of feeling useless, particular when alone in my apartment. The way I am dealing with it right now is embracing action.

Always be going out and meeting people to hone social skills and practice flirting. No more "comfort building" with women - the way to talk to them is to tease and break rapport. This requires practice, almost like being a stand-up comedian does.

In the evenings, go to meetups or dancing. During the day, go out on solo daygame missions to bang out at least 3,5,10,approaches. Just don't stay at home moping around.

It feels better to me to be actively working to improve my situation.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:11 pm

Científico wrote:ElderPrice, I can relate. Right now I have an extraordinarily high flake rate to the numbers I get and no solid prospects, which leads to brief episodes of feeling useless, particular when alone in my apartment. The way I am dealing with it right now is embracing action.

Always be going out and meeting people to hone social skills and practice flirting. No more "comfort building" with women - the way to talk to them is to tease and break rapport. This requires practice, almost like being a stand-up comedian does.

In the evenings, go to meetups or dancing. During the day, go out on solo daygame missions to bang out at least 3,5,10,approaches. Just don't stay at home moping around.

It feels better to me to be actively working to improve my situation.

Agreed completely! And no problem there on my end. Still going out and trying. I'm not that depressed! Where do you go for day game? Any suggestions besides a mall or grocery store?
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:01 pm

3/1/19

I ended up sending some texts a couple days ago with regards to what I thought about in my last post - basically messaging the select individuals I've met this past year who I think are really cool and that I'm legitimately grateful to have met.

All of them responded with real appreciation, especially the girls. I'll continue sending these texts, as I was only able to send out 5 or so before running out of time. Haven't had the chance to send out more since then.

The best part that I didn't expect was how it boosted my mood. I feel a lot better expressing my feelings for these new friends, and hearing their appreciative responses. Again I'll keep it up. And for the new people I meet I'll continue working to get myself giving sincere compliments in person right when I meet them.

Feeling better today. Looking forward to dancing later. The only hindrance that I foresee is being quite tired after not getting much sleep last night, but oh well. Onward!
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Alcman » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:20 am

ElderPrice wrote:Anyone have any tips on how to do better at expressing one's positive feelings - both verbally and through body language?

A thing I picked up from GC is to regularly stretch your facial muscles and do a lot of grimaces etc. I do it in the mirror before leaving home, and whenever I'm unseen on the street. This really helps getting into a habit of expressive facial expressions. Also try to change your neutral default expression from a stoic to Sean Connery or Harrison Ford - that slight mischievous but almost unnoticeable smile.

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'Eros once more, Cypris (Aphrodite) being to blame,
sweetly flowing down warms my heart' - Alcman (Spartan poet, 7th century BC, my translation)
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:03 pm

Alcman wrote:
ElderPrice wrote:Anyone have any tips on how to do better at expressing one's positive feelings - both verbally and through body language?

A thing I picked up from GC is to regularly stretch your facial muscles and do a lot of grimaces etc. I do it in the mirror before leaving home, and whenever I'm unseen on the street. This really helps getting into a habit of expressive facial expressions. Also try to change your neutral default expression from a stoic to Sean Connery or Harrison Ford - that slight mischievous but almost unnoticeable smile.

A.

Thanks! I'll give this a shot. Did you notice significant improvement from implementing this one change alone?
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Alcman » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:43 am

ElderPrice wrote:Thanks! I'll give this a shot. Did you notice significant improvement from implementing this one change alone?

Sure! An even more transformative follow-up routine I picked up from Zan Perrion’s ”The Alabaster Girl” is to wink at as many females as you can as you catch their eye when you’re moving around town. It never fails to boost my mood, and many women will flush or giggle which is great fun. Just think of the difference between how you picture a man who winks at every girl he sees, and a man who is in his own world until he makes an approach or two. Not hard to choose which one you want to be, right?
'Eros once more, Cypris (Aphrodite) being to blame,
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:17 am

3/3/19 Great weekend

No lays but a fun weekend. Dancing both Friday and Saturday nights. Friday night was sort of a usual night that I always have at that venue, but got some positive results from it despite only a handful of approaches. I got a number from a cutie who was happy to dance with me and we had a lot of "About us" things in common. She said yes to a date and I tried setting up something right then and there. We agreed on grabbing drinks/coffee the following night at 7pm. She asked where and because I'm a dufus and didn't think ahead I said 'Hmm not sure. Let me think about it and I'll text you tomorrow.'

After our initial meeting and conversation started to die down, I figured that was a good time to break circle then re-connect later in the night since we had a couple more hours until closing and neither of us were going anywhere. I went back to dance with my friends. When we re-connected later in the night she had turned cold. Not sure how exactly I lost her, but I didn't have a good feeling about her when we said goodbye and left, and sure enough she didn't answer any of my texts the next day. Oh well. Still a positive experience getting a number and having fun with the other new girls I approached that night.

Saturday was even better. I go to two venues on Saturdays. Both were more crowded than normal for Mardi Gras and they thus had more cute girls than normal. Shit.. now that I'm thinking of this, this might sound pretty cool... At Venue 1 I only approached no more than 7 or 8 girls. 3 were very happy to meet me, but had boyfriends. One of these girls I was dancing with and her boyfriend was standing there watching. He face looked petrified that I was successfully gaming her. She was having fun, but clearly wasn't interested in more than dancing. In addition to these 3, I met two additional girls and actually got contact info from them. 1 was a cute latina with a huge rack that had fun dancing with me. She agreed to a date. She wouldn't give her number when I asked but said she's be happy to take mine. I gave her a playful eye roll look and even said, in as a playful tone as I could, "Hey if you're not interested it's totally cool. We don't have to go through this process if we're not going to text each other and make it happen. Only take my number if you're going to text me!" She smiled and assured me she would. Haven't heard from her yet! I'll give it a couple weeks. Maybe she'll surprise me. Oh well.

Then there was the other girl at this venue. An awesome song came on that I'd have a blast dancing to. Near me was all around one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen. I confidently asked her to dance and she absolutely loved it. She said that was the first time ever she's partner danced and that it made her night. I asked her out, she agreed, and we swapped numbers. She said she was heading home soon since she had a long day and didn't want to be out late. I said I was leaving soon too to go to Venue 2 where all my friends were. We said goodbye and went our separate ways. So far she has been responding to my texts and we're a couple details away from scheduling a date for next weekend. If this follows through and the date happens this will be the most beautiful girl I've ever dated before. By far. Most attractive? Maybe not. But definitely most beautiful, if that makes sense. Like, the type of girl that would make all your friends' heads turn. So I consider this a huge win. My new, sexier clothes haven't arrived in the mail yet, my new bling hasn't arrived in the mail yet. I didn't need any of that. With the same blob of ElderPrice that I've been for a while, I just was having a GREAT time, and this girl could feel it. Not just a 6 or 7 but one of the prettiest girls you could imagine. Big win for the confidence.

Venue 2 was a lot of fun but I didn't have much in terms of results here. Not too many new cuties that caught my eye, and of the ones that were there, they weren't interested. The highlight came at the beginning when I tried a continuation of my compliment experiment. All previous gestures have been over text. But on this night I saw a friend that I haven't gotten contact info for yet. She's a super cute, super sexy girl that I love to dance with, and she loves dancing with me. Always says yes. So she became the first person I gave a major, sincere compliment to in person. I told her in essence that I'm very grateful to have met her, I love dancing with her, and dance nights are always better when she's in attendance. And her reaction was great. She loved it. I think I may for the first time in my life actually saw a girl "melting" in front of and because of me. It was awesome. It didn't make her horny or anything, but the look in her eye that she gave me throughout the night as we passed each other and kept dancing here and there was noticeably different than in the past. She was even with a guy that night and honestly she had a happier face dancing and talking with me than when he was holding her in his arms. I'm curious to see how she acts moving forward.

Then today a couple friends saw the compliment texts I saw and messaged back. Like the others, they were greatly appreciative and said those texts made their days. So all these things taken together had me in a AWESOME mood. I feel very positive. I still have a lot of friends to send compliments to so this should continue for a while.

Things to work on:

So this weekend, I had 3 things I wanted to focus on in my approach. I had sort of a mantra: Compliment, Connery, and the last thing I actually forgot at the moment haha. Anyway, Compliment just meant to focus on giving compliments, Connery meant to focus on Alcman's suggestion of making my general face have a Sean Connery smile. Moving forward, I want to put the focus on moving faster with girls. At this point, I'm clearly in the habit of not making moves the same night I meet a girl. For example, re-reading my account of the beautiful girl from Saturday, it certainly READS like I probably should have pushed for something to happen that same night. Maybe "I'm tired and leaving soon" was a signal? Regardless, I agree with GC 100% that I'm not going to land great girls consistently without moving them much faster. Now don't get me wrong, I'm pretty confident NONE of the girls I interact with would agree to moving/escalating. Something about me isn't communicating sexiness/a sexual frame. As a result, the girls I meet aren't all that horny, and they definitely do NOT give me any of the standard "fuck me" signs or attention signals. No hair playing, doey eyes, giggling, flirting, basically no touching back. So actually, what am I talking about... I'll keep the idea of moving quickly with girls in my mind, but I need to focus on sexiness and being sexy and sexuality. Somehow I'm not communicating it and it's definitely keeping girls too dry. That will be my focus this week. If anyone has any suggestions for how to communicate sexiness when you've been a non-sexual, logical, introvert all your life, I'd appreciate any tips or tricks for helping to get this fundamental down.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Alcman » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:56 am

Really impressed by that night out, EP! I’m so glad to see your progress. I lost my virginity a year ago, and went through most everything you’re going through. I’ve also been a platonic stoic. Some things that helped me w.r.t. sexiness: 1) Chase’s eye contact: focusing on the bridge of the nose between the eyes, and always holding eye contact longer than her (check out the old article or book chapter on eye contact), 2) as you look into her eyes, imagine her wet naked body pressed against you, and how she would sound in orgasm; I’ve had girls literally flush and drop the things they’re holding in their hands from this, it’s a sex bazooka. 3) If she’s wearing earrings, gently brush away her hair behind her ear and touch the ear/earrings while you compliment her on it and express interest, such as asking about how she got the ring, how long she’s had the piercing etc. The ear and neck is an erogenous zone, for some girls (usually the ones who love choking) it’s the strongest one of all, and it’s about the only zone you have access to quite immediately in the interaction. Trust me, no woman will call you out on being curious and appreciative about her earrings, and almost all will be thrilled since most men will not notice. Pretty girls’ necks and ears are among the most beautiful things in the world, so enjoy the experience! :)

Game on,
A.
'Eros once more, Cypris (Aphrodite) being to blame,
sweetly flowing down warms my heart' - Alcman (Spartan poet, 7th century BC, my translation)
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:49 pm

Thanks man! I'll give your suggestions a shot. I've always been weak wrt eye contact. Not horrendous but not great. Always room to improve there.

To provide a super quick update to the Journal, the big tit girl texted me this morning so woo hoo! Haha
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby ElderPrice » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:12 am

3/6/19 What a shock - momentum couldn't even last 3 fucking days

All those positive emotions gone. All the depressed, doubtful, and hopeless feelings back. For starters, these new phone numbers are dying off at the speed of light. The beautiful girl is responding to my texts, then the SECOND I send a scheduler text, so goes silent then texts me today saying she's going through a divorce and actually isn't ready to date. The girl on snapchat? Responds to every single one of my texts but then the SECOND I send a schedule text, she goes silent. No response from two other girls. On the plus side, the big tit girl who preferred to take my number actually texted me! Didn't expect that at all. I followed with a scheduler text and haven't heard back since. Not ruling her out, but since I'm striking out 100% of the time here, I assume the pattern will hold and she won't agree to a date.

Went dancing tonight and it sucked, adding to the negativity. Girls that I had met before and thought were friendly weren't friendly tonight. They either didn't smile when dancing with me, or they expressed clear lack of enthusiasm when I asked (and they accepted). Every time this happens I kick myself. I figure I should be telling these girls "nevermind" when they do shit like that. A couple girls pulled some shit that always pisses me off where they say their excuse for why they don't want to dance, then 2 minutes later are dancing with someone else. And I mean like, they're basically lying type of thing. Like one girl said repeatedly "I don't know how to dance" then I saw her on the dance floor all night. Not the biggest deal, but the disrespect does piss me off and add to the negativity, especially when this crowd is basically a big social circle. No idea why people would go to social circle dance night and be unfriendly to others.

Anyway, I'm back to feeling like a broken piece of shit. I have no fucking clue how a guy can get all these numbers and not get a single fucking date out of them. I'm following "14 Simple Ways to Text a Girl and Make Her Want You" to the T as best as possible. "Hey it's Elder. Save my number!" *response* "Text 4: Standard Scheduler Text." This is just getting so fucking old. I'm obviously doing something super fucked up and I have no idea what. Then it crushes me even more to read other people's issues. I see conversations with girls people post on even the beginner board that blow my mind. These girls just say and do things that I NEVER fucking see with regard to attraction. I have still yet to encounter a SINGLE girl that has chased me, not even by accident. If I go silent on girls they NEVER text back, not even once. No idea what to try. There's no way a tiny tweak will solve these issues. There's got to be some fundamental that is so 100% wrong that I can't even tell. It absolutely amazes me how impossible this endeavor has been for me.
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Alcman » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 am

Hey man, just some perspective: in 2018 I shagged seven girls, my first ever. I roughly estimate that for every twenty phone numbers I got, one lead to a date, and that maybe one in five dates lead to sex. This means that only one out of a hundred successful approaches lead to anything, and that's not counting all the failed half-approaches where she didn't even hook or I ejected too fast, which are of course the lion's share. Have you done more than seven hundred good approaches (where she hooked) since you started your journal? If not, get out there. And remember that day game is way more crucial than night game, because that's where you stand out from most men in the world. Nobody said this is an easy pastime: just like growing your muscles at the gym, there's pain, pain, pain (then gain, gain, gain).

A.
'Eros once more, Cypris (Aphrodite) being to blame,
sweetly flowing down warms my heart' - Alcman (Spartan poet, 7th century BC, my translation)
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Re: ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Postby Científico » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:52 pm

Hey Elderprice - have you tried diversifying where you go out to meet women? Seems like you are doing a lot of nighttime dancing game, but I dont see much else mentioned recently in your journal. Go to different meetups in evening, and do daygame as well. Just keep getting yourself out there. This is a constant numbers game, and it's a process that one ultimately comes to enjoy.
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