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Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:35 pm
by fog
Date With Talia

Today I hung out with Talia, in public. This is my first date since I started cold approaching. All the other girls I've hooked up with who I've met from cold approach came straight to my house - no dates involved. Given my lack of experience with this area I was interested to see what problems and obstacles I would experience. I kept in mind a lot of Yash's field reports about dates he's been on.

Talia and I met at a coffee shop. We sat across from each other. She seemed a bit reserved at first, but conversation flowed easily and soon she was opening up - she started talking REALLY fast. I ran a pattern. I also did a palm read on her and did a cold read on her love life. She got very excited because I was right about it all. After a while I realized that I should move her outside so I could do more kino on her and get her comfortable with my touch - sitting across from each other was not exactly conducive for this.

We walk to a park, and during the walk I do some light touching on her shoulders and arms. For some reason, it just doesn't feel right. I back off a little bit and just stick with accidental touch for now. We sit at a picnic table at the park. Again, we are sitting across from each other. I start teasing her a little bit - she starts getting more emotionally involved in the conversation. I tell her to come back to my place to see my pets - she says that she won't have time because she has to go see her friend in a bit. I persist, but she is firm...she says she can't. Huh, oh well. I live 20 minutes away by bus anyways, so the logistics aren't the greatest. I bring up the topic of sex several times through our conversation, but I don't focus on it too much.

We walk around the park some more. I start being a lot more mysterious and avoid answering her questions. Since she's busy later I have to adjust my strategy. Should I try to escalate hard on her in public? Maybe bang her in a washroom? Or should I just chill, move a bit slower and save the fun stuff for a potential second date? We stop walking around and sit on a bench. Not very closely together, though. I am touching her leg every so often. It's been about 1.5 hours since we met up. We are chatting - but conversation isn't flowing like it used to. There's more pauses and the conversation is less interesting. Then we start getting back into good conversation again. She is talking about how she just broke up with her boyfriend like a week ago. She says they broke up because there's not an emotional connection and he doesn't understand her. However, she is very sexually attracted to him and the sex is great. She feels a magnetized pull towards him that she's never felt before. While she's describing this, I run another pattern on her. She REALLY agrees with what I'm saying. After I'm done with the pattern, I look at her lips. Immediately, She LICKS HER LIPS and her face suddenly changes - now she's got an attracted look on her face. whaaaat...this is good. This is the face girls give me when they are considering sleeping with me. The lip licking is new - never seen that happen before. She is very warm with me after this, and becomes a little bit more submissive, and even starts giving me "almost touches." In my experience, when a girl does "almost touches" its because wants to touch you but isn't comfortable with it quite yet. I start slowing down the conversation like mad - I'm introducing a lot of pregnant pauses.

After about 20 more minutes of chatting, she says she's hungry and I walk with her to go get light kino feels more natural this time. She's dragging me all over the place because she can't decide what she wants to eat. I wonder if she's drawing this out because she wants me to make a move. So I get some logistics:

backstory: are you still hanging out with your friend?
talia: yeah she's texting me right now wondering where I am.

Ehhh....then we walk to the bus stop. Before she gets on her bus she says it was good to see me, gives me a hug, does a quick sort of linger like she wants me to kiss her, and says that we will hang out again sometime.

I wonder if she will ever contact me again? If not, it's no big deal. I got some good reference points. I believe I asked her home a little bit too early...I did not ask her after I saw the the attracted look on her face because I knew she would have to get going to see her friend soon. This is pussy shit!!! I should have at least asked again. Or started escalating/building tension a lot more in new ways. Instead I just maintained it, not pushing it too hard.

I feel like I could have done a lot better. I find I always mess up escalation windows. I wish I had been more verbally direct, too. However, I did do some things right.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:45 pm
by Kvothe
backstory wrote:Today I hung out with Talia, in public. This is my first date since I started cold approaching. All the other girls I've hooked up with who I've met from cold approach came straight to my house - no dates involved. Given my lack of experience with this area I was interested to see what problems and obstacles I would experience. I kept in mind a lot of Yash's field reports about dates he's been on.

Talia and I met at a coffee shop. We sat across from each other. She seemed a bit reserved at first, but conversation flowed easily and soon she was opening up - she started talking REALLY fast. I ran a pattern. I also did a palm read on her and did a cold read on her love life. She got very excited because I was right about it all. After a while I realized that I should move her outside so I could do more kino on her and get her comfortable with my touch - sitting across from each other was not exactly conducive for this.

Glad my FR's were useful! Just keep in mind that I'm still learning, so you'll probably get more by thinking on what I should have done differently than what I did right.

Regarding the sitting across from each other-yeah try not to do that. Try getting her to sit next to you in a booth, if there isn't a booth, maybe suggest drinking it outside and find a bench?

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:28 pm
by fog
Date with Glue

Yesterday after my date with Talia, I hung out with Glue.

Glue is a girl I met at the festival I was gaming at this past weekend. She was handing out food samples. In our first chat, it was fairly platonic but she seemed really engaged with me. Later I approached her again, asked if she was single, deep dived her, did some kino and got her number.

Yesterday we met at a coffee shop close to my house. Initially, when I was texting her, she agreed to come straight to my house, but then she changed her mind and said she would prefer to meet at a coffee shop. I didn't mind...the coffee shop we agreed to meet at was a 10 minute walk from my house, so logistics were good.

As soon as she got there, she complained that she knew nothing about me and started asking me a bunch of questions. It was a tad uncalibrated and awkward and felt like I was being interviewed. Anyways I just flirted a bunch and threw out some chase frames and otherwise was verbally direct. After 15-20 minutes I told her to come back to my place. Initially she was a little bit apprehensive about it, thinking I was a serial killer and stuff. But I knew she really wanted to. After a bit more conversation, I suggested we move outside. We do and we talk outside for roughly ten minutes. Then she says:

Glue: you are very interesting

I took this as sort of an escalation window so I said "let's go to my house!" and she readily agreed. We start walking, but on the way there she is still worried that something bad is going to happen to her. I realized that emotionally she liked me, but logically it didn't make sense to her that she was going to this stranger's house who she doesn't even really know.

So we get back to my place and she seems to be quite on guard. We sit down on the couch, I put on some cartoons and give her an interesting book to look at. I'm acting aloof and sort of ignoring her. - I know she needs some time to get settled in and I don't wanna be too intense right off the bat.

We talk for a bit, then I kiss her neck. She doesn't say anything, but I could tell she didn't really like it. I start slowing things down. Blinking slower, talking in a deeper voice, talking slower...etc. Next thing you know, she's got more of a relaxed look on her face and she's giving me bedroom eyes. Gee, what a perfect time to make a move right? Well I don't make a move then and wait a little while longer. Derp. Need to work on this. Eventually I kiss her and we make out a little bit at first, then talk some more. It's a pretty serious conversation, and I realize that if I wanna make another move it would be best to get her back into a fun state of mind - especially if I want it to feel right. So I start telling her some silly stories then we start making out again. she is a ridiculously enthusiastic kisser and gets super into it. She's moaning like mad and looks DRUNK AS FUCK every time I stop kissing at her and gaze into her eyes. It was weird - it reminded me of what Hector was saying about “Cock Drunk” in another thread. Anyways I got her rubbing my dick over my pants but she wouldn’t let me take off her shirt, even after persisting multiple times.

After a bit she looks at her phone and gets startled because she's stayed way longer than she's supposed to - its almost midnight and she's gotta be up early for work. She stands up. Then, I stand up. She grabs my shirt and pulls me into her. She kisses me briefly, then shoves me away. When we got to the door, she did the same thing. It was almost like she really wanted me but knew it was bad for her.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:38 pm
by fog
After my Montreal trip 1.5 months ago, I took a break from day game for two weeks (I was doing mostly night game). And after that, it was still a few weeks more before I got back into consistent daily daytime approaches. This had a highly negative effect on my game. I lost progress and I've had to regain some skills that weren't fully internalized active listening. The good news is that I am nearly back at the level I was at when I was in Montreal. It's a really good feeling. I feel calm and in control of my conversations. I believe I'm going to have a breakthrough sometime really soon.

Some interesting women behaviour over the past few days:

She Broke Up With Him

I was at a party last night and saw a girl I've known for a while. One of the first things she says to me (we were standing around in a group):

Farah: backstory, ****** and I broke up.
backstory: *sexy voice* farah why are you telling me that youre single?

Usually when I talk to this girl she is very engaged with me and gives me her full attention. However, later in the night whenever I would talk to her after chase framing her, she would be engaged in the first few seconds then would start acting aloof and looking around, almost disinterested. I observed her talking to other guys - she was very engaged in those conversations. My guess is that whenever we talked, she kept forgetting that I chase framed her, then when she remembered, she acted aloof on purpose to not seem too interested in me.

I think maybe an issue here was that I chase framed in front of the group. I have to be careful about this. Chase frames, asking girls home, stuff like that...should be avoided in groups.


I met Evelyn a few days ago. She hooked immediately, did a body scan, and had some eye twinkles. She would not stop laughing at everything I said. Honestly, what I was saying was not even funny and even kinda dumb. The only reason she was laughing was because she was attracted to me. We clicked so I got her number and she replied initially, but didn't reply after that...ugh. I feel like there was some incongruence on my part in our talk...this might be why.

A Few Leagues Up

I went up to a very unattractive girl and opened her direct just for shits and giggles - i told her she was attractive. The look on her face as I was talking to her was a facial expression I have never seen before. I would describe it as being interested in me, but confused and not really sure what to do - possibly intimidated. I think I will frequently hit on unattractive girls from now on, just to see what they do and how they react. I know this is quite incongruent however I think the reference points will be interesting.

She Gives Up On backstory

I got a girl's number at the festival I was gaming at last weekend. She was working. I wasn't really trying so I was pretty clumsy, but whatever...we started texting. Normally I try to only use texting for logistics but I've actually gotten into a conversation through text with her. To me she's clearly inexperienced and has probably already put me in the boyfriend zone. I would have NEXTed her ages ago but I stuck with it just because of the interesting challenge she's provided me with maintaining my attainability. Here's our text conversation:

yawn: hey
backstory: hellooo darling
yawn: hello
yawn: I'm at work
backstory: seriously? I'm sorry to hear that. i recommend you quit your job. :)
yawn: why?
yawn: i just got this job and its with what i want to do
backstory: quit it and lets hang out
yawn: nope. not happening. I'm guessing you are the person i met at (festival name).
backstory: yeah you were flirting with me when your boss wasn't looking
backstory: are you having a good time at work so far?
yawn: eh oh well. we all had a good laugh. he told my mom because he knew what i was doing
yawn: yes
backstory: wow :O
backstory: its top secret and confidential information that he revealed. maybe we should consider firing him
yawn: whats wow?
backstory: wow is a word people use when they are surprised

Later, when we are trying to make plans:

yawn: meeting went an hour long then expected
backstory: lame
yawn: its life. so please stop with the negativity
backstory: shhh ill spank you *eye roll emoticon*
yawn: ya. try it i dare you
backstory: you'd probably like it
yawn: idk maybe
backstory: k so we are gonna meet at 6:10PM
yawn: ya as long as nothing else comes up
backstory: alright
yawn: ya
***few hours later***
yawn: have to stay at work late since I'm busy with appointments tomorrow. so can't hang. won't be done till like 9pm

The next day...

backstory: okay that's fine
yawn: that was yesterdays text
backstory: im a time traveler so
yawn: ya OK...

At this point I could sense she was starting to go into auto rejection...I was teasing her way too much and being way too banter-y and as a result I was becoming unattainable. So what I did was apologize to her about how I was talking about how she should quit her job. She accepted it. Right after this, she starts trying to get to know me but I'm responding really slow:

yawn: what do you do for work
backstory: nothing too interesting. i do **********
yawn: for who?
backstory: a few different places honestly
backstory: what are you up to today?
yawn: relaxing, doing laundry, and then working tonight

I don't reply for 20 minutes. Then:

yawn: omg i give up with guys
backstory: don't give up on me darling I'm just busy right now
yawn: ok well
yawn: thought i sent that earlier apparently not...fuck i hate my cell
backstory: omg i hate when that happens
yawn: yeah. were you working for the last 12 hours
backstory: i dont think i was
yawn: ah because i sent you that message 12 hours ago
backstory: thanks for letting me know :)
yawn: mhm :/
backstory: tell me your feelings
yawn: nothing just frustrated
backstory: about what?
yawn: i just had enough of people saying they like me then not talking for long periods of time because it makes us girls think different.

Sigh...I'm trying to get her on a date with me but its more work than expected. I'm not expecting to bang her, I'm just using her for the experience.

Social Circle Girl

I was talking to a girl I know a few nights ago at the bar. I used to view her as unattainable. Not anymore. Our conversation went really well, and i know i could have brought her home but I had to leave really early to catch the bus.

Today I saw her when she was with a guy (they're just friends) and briefly chatted with them. Here's a part where I put out a chase frame:

Social Circle Girl: wowwww your boots are so cool! nice shirt too. You're always styling!
backstory: *To guy friend* Social Circle Girl is hitting on me.

I can tell she's attracted to me by her facial expressions. Later I got on the bus and she was on the bus, sitting alone. She was busy with her cell phone and didn't notice me. At that point I had a split second decision to make. Should I sit with her and get her number? Hmmm..I decided not to sit with her. I think maybe it would be better to preserve her attraction towards me. The next time I talk with her should be when I am in a good position to pull her. I have her on Facebook but I feel it would be socially uncalibrated to message her to ask her to hang out. But you know what, maybe I'm not being aggressive enough...

Excited Interview Mode

Recently there's been a few girls who just all of a sudden started pummelling me with questions (LIKE ITS 20 QUESTIONS). This was after I expressed my interest in them. The reason they might be doing this is because they are excited and attracted to me, but they don’t really know me. They are trying to get to know me very quickly so that it will make sense to them logically that they are attracted to me.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:10 pm
by fog

I am feeling a lot of emotional pain and I'm not sure why. I don't think it's the rejections that hurt. I think it's more the awkwardness after I talk to a girl and I do/say something stupid or make a mistake during our conversation...which happens quite a lot.

I'm Seeing Someone

Sometimes, lately, a girl will tell me she's seeing someone when I ask if she's single/ask if she wants to hang out. My usual response is to ask if it's serious and compare it to marriage. This works, but I know I can do better....I'm not quite sure about the absolute best way to respond to this objection. I know for a fact that the best way to handle it will involve addressing the underlying emotions. I know that this is a silly objection that is easy to overcome and if I do it in the proper way then maybe I can increase my attraction in the eyes of the girl.

Asking For A Name - Law of Least Effort

Why would I even bother asking for a girl's name when I can get it without asking? All I have to do is introduce myself to her first and then she will say her name back. It just seems more natural and smooth instead of asking, "what's your name?"

Some girls refuse to tell me their name when I ask what their name is. The fact that they are refusing to comply creates a huge rift in the conversation. Oftentimes I'll try asking again later but they still refuse to tell me. Bad bad bad. By just introducing myself to a girl, I avoid this riff in the conversation. If I introduce myself and they don't tell me their name, then I know they don't want to share it. I will not call attention to their reluctance to share their name by asking for their name.

More Balls

- I'm tired of opening indirect. I made a commitment today to open direct WAY more often. I think this will be good for my sexual vibe. Today after doing a few direct approaches, I realized I portrayed myself as a not-so-sexy guy during the interaction, both non-verbally and verbally. It felt incongruent for some reason.

- My usual strategy if I opened indirect is to ask if a girl is single then go straight back to the conversation we were having before. I'm gonna try something different...maybe asking her if she's single, then telling her that I'm attracted to her...something like that, or just casually talking about the fact she's single. Or maybe I will challenge myself to never use the "you're single right?" line ever again. Lots of thinking to do.

- I'm working on a strategy for when I'm on buses: When girls are walking onto the bus, I'll ask them to sit with me. If I see a girl on the bus that I'm attracted to, I'll go sit with her.

Freckle Face

Opened her direct at the bus stop. Later when I asked her to hang out, she said she was seeing someone. I handled her objection and then asked again. She said yes. I told her I would take down her number. Unfortunately my phone was off and her bus was rolling I told her I would have to pass. Her phone appeared in her hand when I told her my phone was off. I didn't realize it till after but she probably would have put my number in her phone. It was an interesting situation.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:04 pm
by fog
My vibe was killer today. :) Btw - I've made over 500 approaches this summer.

Things I Need to Figure Out

What kind of body language should I use when I'm in conversation with a girl and there's no way to lock in? Specifically, what should I do with my arms and hands?
What facial expression should I use when I open a girl?
How can I turn a conversation sexual in a smooth way when I've opened indirect?
What sorts of topics should I talk about with a girl in general?

Basically, today I realized how much I suck. lol...

Aloof and Rude

I was talking with a girl and she was being aloof and rude. For example:

backstory: my name is backstory
girl: uhhh i didn't ask for your name
backstory: *bored look*

I didn't realize till after that I had low attainability with her. I'm just so sick and tired of messing things up with girls because I didn't handle attainability right. I messed it up with 90% of the girls I've had a chance with this summer. I'm going to put a ton of effort into handling attainability in the next few weeks. I actually won't be doing half bad if I can get past this obstacle.

I Don't Want It Bad Enough

I'm not pushing myself. For example, I'm not opening girls who are giving me approach invitations when they are with another guy. When I'm walking on the street and see a girl in a store I want to talk to, I don't go in to do it. I have to do these things if I wanna succeed.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:12 am
by fog
Quick Random Thoughts

- My hair was getting a little long, so I went and got a haircut today...then afterwards when I went out to game, it was ridiculously easy to get into conversations. Coincidence? I think not.

- I'm feeling mentally exhausted lately with pickup. I'm putting a lot of effort into trying to understand why girls are acting the way they're acting towards me. I feel like I'm burning out and need a break. At the same time I just wanna keep pushing myself.

- Lately I've found myself acting impatient with girls. This is bad. I need to learn to practice patience. My impatience has negatively influenced my interactions with two specific girls who I've been talking to lately: Purple and Rachel. I'll talk more about them below.

- If a girl is afraid to reject me then I should call her out on it.

Purple: A Bad Kisser In Public

I met Purple at a bus stop two months ago. She was sitting on the ground. When I was walking by her, I caught her looking at me but did not say hello to her - I kept walking. After walking further down the street I decided to turn around, walk back and open her. She was quite nervous at first. But then I got her to stand up and our conversation was very flirty. She was flipping her hair like mad! I got her number and it was just more flirting. The subtext was that she wanted me to fuck her. But by the time we made plans to hang out, I was in Montreal. And by the time I got back, she had left town to go on vacation for 6 weeks.

We kept in touch and we made plans to hang out today. Then at the last minute she flaked, saying she was busy. I was very annoyed by this and I don't think I handled it that well.

Then, later when I was day gaming, I saw her at a bus stop. She started explaining why she couldn't hang out today, saying something about getting called into work. I wasn't really listening. I was thinking about making out with her. I weighed the risks in my head: I could kiss her now, break a lot of the tension, and maybe never see her again....OR, i could wait and fuck her at a later time.

I made out with her, and it wasn't even worth it. We clunked teeth lol. I should have been more patient and just maintained the tension till we actually hung out. Won't be surprised if I never hear from her ever again. I don't even know why I had such a strong desire to kiss her right then and there.

Rachel: A Great Texter

I met Rachel at a bus stop a few days ago. She was staring at me so I went up and talked to her. However she was acting aloof. About 45 seconds into our conversation, her bus came and we said goodbye to each other. I didn't expect to see her again.

But then yesterday I was sitting on the bus, and Rachel walked on. She was on the phone. We made eye contact and I patted the seat beside me in an attempt to get her to sit with me. However she planted herself in the seat behind me. Eventually she got off the phone and said hello to me. She seemed mildly excited. I found out what she was up to and did a little bit of small talk and teasing. Then I asked her to come and sit with me in my seat. She refused and asked me to come and sit with her. I became a little aloof after this, and she came and sat with me.

We were talking more and she was throwing out screens quickly - what are your hobbies, what do you take in school, etc etc. It was like she was playing 20 questions with me. However when I tried to find out more about her, she became slightly aloof. Despite this, at times she was getting close to my face, looking at my lips, making flirty facial expressions, holding strong eye contact etc.

I got her number, then later the very first thing she texted me was:

Rachel: By the way you look like my ex
Rachel: but he was different

Anyways... she wouldn't stop texting me and eventually called me a bad texter because I was taking forever to respond. I'm trying to make plans with her to hang out and I'm really impatient about the whole thing because she doesn't seem eager to hang out ASAP. How I'm texting her is not how I would handle things usually. I just need to chill for a bit. If she's attracted to me she's not going anywhere.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:17 pm
by fog
Daytime Cockblocks are the WORST

I have a very nice failure to talk about. Well, maybe it wasn't a complete failure.

Yesterday I was at a park and approached 2 girls sitting on a bench. It was a pretty long conversation - much longer than I'd normally stay in set. Most of it was banter, and a little bit was getting to know both of the girls too. Girl 1 was from out of town and was only staying for a few days. They weren't curious about me in any way, however they were laughing a ridiculous amount at the things I was saying. I wasn't even saying things that were really funny. I had a feeling girl 1 was attracted to me, but I wasn't sure. Looking back, she did have a facial expression of attraction on her face, but it was extremely subtle. My initial mistakes were that I didn't focus on one girl, and also, I wasn't direct at all. Pretty soon my strategy for 2 girls will be solid, but let's not talk about that now. The girls weren't being fun so I ejected - didn't even bother to get girl 1's number.... it didn't really feel right. When I was walking away, I looked back and Girl 1 was staring at me.

Well what do you I'm walking through the park again and see Girl 1 + 2. They have another girl with them, Girl 3. I start bantering with them. I notice that Girl 1 is DEFINITELY attracted to me. She's ridiculously engaged by me, she's got the eye sparkle, and she's preening herself! Nice. I start being direct with her, asking if she's single, telling her she's cute, etc etc. I made these comments in front of her friends (I shouldn't have done that) and they were all giggling feverishly.

I start getting logistics. I'm asking when she's leaving town. Apparently she's leaving IN AN HOUR. I try convincing her to stay another, what a dumb thing to do. Girl 2 is helping me out and suggests Girl 1 stay another night. Then I start talking about how I would like to hang out with Girl 1 right now. Well Girl 3 comes in and starts cockblocking - she says that Girl 1 would much rather prefer their company over mine. She continues to do more cockblocking, and after she is done I give her a "excuse me! that was uncalled for" face. But right bout then, there is this awkward vibe in the air...and I'm feeling quite frazzled after what happened, and I'm not sure what to do. So I just said goodbye and left. No number, nothing.

UGHHHHHHHHH. A better thing to do would have been to isolate girl 1. I should have said to her friends that I was gonna steal her for 5 minutes. Then I woulda walked around the park with her, and escalated. Would have been easy to get at least a make out. I could have handled the cockblock better too. Cockblocks during the daytime really throw me off. Just got to keep isolation in mind for next time.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:01 pm
by fog
I Kiss a Granny

After a few unusually cold reactions from women today in a row, something clicked for me..if the vibe is good with a woman i've just met during the day, WHY NOT KISS HER? I am now confident enough to start doing this.

I was just walking down a busy street downtown and made eye contact with this woman who seemed to be in her 40s. Usually I wouldn't open a girl like this but I did anyways because it was starting to get dark and I had only talked to like 6 girls so far (I always try to do 10 a day). She was wearing a strapless sundress. I open her and she gets real close and stands centimetres away from my face. It was cool.

backstory: are you spontaneous?
granny: yeah lets go

So we start walking together and she's holding one of her tits. I dare her to flash me and she does. Then I lean in to kiss her. She gives me a boring granny kiss on the lips. She's talking about how she needs to find a cigarette, then asks me for a sip of my water. I tell her if she gives me a really good kiss then I'll give her a sip of my water. She gives me another boring granny kiss, although it was better and longer than the first granny kiss. She keeps asking me for my water and is complaining that she has to kiss me for it. I ejected because I had enough fun and wanted to talk to more girls.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:24 am
by Sandman
Dude 40 year old isn't a granny :p

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:16 pm
by fog
mrre wrote:Dude 40 year old isn't a granny :p

40 year olds are grannies in my world, mrre. :)

Big Sadness

Today I realized that there's A LOT of patterns I've discovered recently in the way that girls are behaving towards me. And it's stressing me out that I don't know the answers quite yet as to why they behave in these ways with me. It's going to take a lot of effort to test out all of my suspicions.

But here's the problem. Lately I am dreading going out to talk to women. It's not fun for me...I'm tired of it. What happens is that I end up not putting in the effort that I need to put in, which leads to me not experiencing any growth.

I think it's not fun for me lately because I'm going through a rough patch. This August there's been plenty of opportunities to get laid but I messed up EACH AND EVERY opportunity....I messed up because I found myself in novel situations where I wasn't sure what to do. Even though it sucks, I know what I did wrong and how I will succeed next time. More recently, I've done like 50 approaches and only got 1 flakey-ass number. I'm approaching girls who are not giving me AIs, so that could account for it. There have been a few situations at bus stops where the girl and I had a lot of potential to click but she ended up having to leave really quickly. So that's frustrating.

I'm thinking I'm going to take a break from day game for a little bit. I have a lot of thinking and writing to do on my experiences in the past month and a half, and I want to recharge my social battery (lol lame). I'm worried that I'll lose some momentum, but I can probably maintain my skill level by doing some night game.

Other News

- I figured out a facial expression that shows sympathy/empathy/compassion. I'm really happy about this discovery
- There are a lot of girls out there who are socially awkward

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:06 pm
by kristian
Lately I am dreading going out to talk to women. It's not fun for me...I'm tired of it. What happens is that I end up not putting in the effort that I need to put in, which leads to me not experiencing any growth.

I had exactly the same issue a month ago until I started working out.

Do you lift heavy, doing basic exercises (like squats, deadlift and bench-press)? If not, get your ass to the gym, start eating fats and sleep better, it will have a dramatic impact on your testosterone, making it easier to talk to women again.

If you already do, try out visualizations: The brain doesn't know the difference between real life and imagination. There are tons of ways to do this, Bob Proctors guided ones are very good. You can find them on youtube. If you combined both, well then you're almost unstoppable and will find new ways of making it exciting to talk to women again.

The thing is, backstory, is that you have all the mechanics down I believe reaching the next stage has to do with the mental aspects of game. Unless you are working on that already.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:31 pm
by fog
kristian wrote:
Lately I am dreading going out to talk to women. It's not fun for me...I'm tired of it. What happens is that I end up not putting in the effort that I need to put in, which leads to me not experiencing any growth.

I had exactly the same issue a month ago until I started working out.

Do you lift heavy, doing basic exercises (like squats, deadlift and bench-press)? If not, get your ass to the gym, start eating fats and sleep better, it will have a dramatic impact on your testosterone, making it easier to talk to women again.

If you already do, try out visualizations: The brain doesn't know the difference between real life and imagination. There are tons of ways to do this, Bob Proctors guided ones are very good. You can find them on youtube. If you combined both, well then you're almost unstoppable and will find new ways of making it exciting to talk to women again.

The thing is, backstory, is that you have all the mechanics down I believe reaching the next stage has to do with the mental aspects of game. Unless you are working on that already.

kristian - thanks for your advice. I will start lifting and trying out visualizations and observe the differences.

I'm curious to hear you talk more about the mental aspects. Could you please expand?

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:36 am
by fog
My First (Semi-Successful) Bathroom Pull

i met Trinity on tinder. We clicked so we made plans to hang out. I’m in my home town right now staying at my parents house so we couldn’t hang out here. She’s living with her parents right now too. I asked if they let her have guys over. She said yes but it would just be too much of a headache for her to have to deal with her parent’s questions. So our places were out of the question.

We decided to meet at the mall. I didn’t mind the shitty logistics because I really wanted to try to do a bathroom pull.

I’m standing around waiting for her. As she walks up to me, I slap on my sexual vibe. She looks at me and bows her head in submission. We sit on a bench and the things are great already. Our legs are touching and stuff. I’m deep diving her a little bit. She starts talking about how it makes her uncomfortable that I’m “psychoanalyzing" her. She says that most people don’t usually get her, but it seems that I get her really well.

We get off the bench and walk around the mall for a bit. She tells me she has ADHD and I don’t doubt it. She's jumping topics really quickly and getting distracted quite often. This threw me off guard! How am I supposed to build any decent rapport or even build a vibe!?

Well, at least she was touching me a decent amount. And I was creating a lot of tension. For example:

trinity: i like your socks.
backstory: thanks
trinity: i like your shoes too. and your shirt. i like your whole outfit
backstory: i hope you’re not just saying that to get in my pants. :)
trinity: *says nothing*

Shortly after I throw out this chase frame, I kiss her neck. She has no reaction to it. We continue walking and she’s pretty quiet. We are having trouble finding topics to chat about. Instead of worrying about this I bring her to the bathrooms. I walk up to the bathroom:

backstory: I’m going to the bathroom.
trinity: ok ill wait out here.
backstory: no. come with me.

We walk into an empty family washroom. I start kissing her, then pull away. She doesn’t want to continue because she’s scared of getting caught. I show her how we can go into the diaper changing room and lock the door. She still doesn’t wanna do it. I don’t push it.

We leave the bathroom and walk around the mall some more. During this period we make out a few more times. We end up sitting on a bench. I put my arm around her and we cuddle a little bit. She seems to be quite nervous. However at this point our conversations getting a lot better and we are really starting to build a bubble. Before we parted ways, her face changed and she had the look of attraction on her face.

I get home and she texts me shortly after:

trinity: i normally don’t text this quick to someone after seeing them but i genuinely really enjoyed tonight ahh
backstory: im glad you had a good time trinity :) i did too
trinity: do you think we’ll hang out again?

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:07 am
by kristian
I'm curious to hear you talk more about the mental aspects. Could you please expand?

Backstory, we both know about moving forward, creating connection, intrigue, and teasing. We've also worked a lot on our fundamentals, so much that we get girls interested at any event, party, out on the streets and so on.

For me the main thing so far has been working on vibe, and that has everything to do with what we believe about ourselves, the inner chatter, all that jazz. I believe it's our inner vibe - predicated by our hormones - that makes us feel a certain way and take more action because we believe in our abilities in getting women.

We all know that vibe is created by past successes like Chase has mentioned in the winner effect, but he also mentions that we can "fake" that success simply by visualizing.

The more you do it the, more will your subconscious start to believe it and sooner or later you will be acting like a guy with actual success. Girls catch that and get even more interested once they feel your "aura". This has proven to make a great impact on my interactions and success so far - and I've been only practicing for six weeks.

Testosterone make you more assertive, visualization makes your vibe better. I believe it a killer combination if you do it every day for a month or two. You will see improvements in all aspects.

Ps. Thank you for the "having fun"-advice before going for the kiss. It works and I'll keep it on my arsenal.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:47 pm
by fog
Thanks kristian. I have been thinking a lot about your advice and started implementing it.

A lot has happened the past few weeks but I'm just going to say two things: 1) im getting AIs and eye sparkles from girls who I view as out of my league and 2) i'm experiencing a lot more polarizing behaviour from girls than ever before.

Qualifying and Screening

I've used qualifying and screening in the past but not recently. On top of that I never had a solid strategy for using it and wasn't using it effectively. When I get into conversations with women and don't qualify/screen them and then ask them to hang out, it feels really weird. However now I'm working on making women feel like there's a reason i'm interested in seeing them again, besides their looks.

My journal's been pretty quiet, I've been struggling with some mindset issues but I'm overcoming them.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:22 pm
by fog
Girls at Night

Girls at the bar + parties are touching me/initiating touch a lot more than they used to. Definitely a good sign, but I'm wondering when this will happen in day game?

Enthusiasm from Girls

I noticed how enthusiastic girls are while talking to guys sometimes. Up until now I haven't really been paying attention to enthusiasm levels from girls in my conversations. I realized that some girls are enthusiastic to be talking to me, but not every girl is. How can I make girls MORE enthusiastic to be talking to me? I'm thinking proper teasing/ball busting + strong rapport building + amazing fundamentals, but I will need to experiment.


I'm incorporating a lot of aloofness into my game. I think I'm actually overeager in a lot of situations.


I've got a tiny bit more work to do on my voice, fashion sense, and facial expressions before they're REALLY good. I'm already getting complimented pretty consistently on my voice and fashion sense...however in the long run, the absolute next biggest steps are to build an amazing body and be consistent with my sexual vibe. I'm always getting beat out by guys who are jacked and have a sexy vibe. If I can accomplish these two things then I'm gonna be in amazing shape with my fundamentals. The thing is though, having a consistent sexual vibe will require me to completely overhaul my personality. It'd be a lot of work...

Goal for Next Week

My goal is to approach 100 girls next week.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:52 pm
by fog
Today I will talk about some interesting situations from the past few weeks that occurred at night.

Before I get started I want to mention that there seems to be one last piece of the puzzle to solve before I start bringing home girls consistently from the bars/parties. I have opportunities every single night I go out lately but my problem is that I don’t know when it’s time to just pick a girl and settle down with her. Often times I’ll hit it off with a girl but then I tell her I’ll come find her later because I wanna go meet more girls. Then when its later I’ll go and find the girl but she’ll be with another guy, or she's left already... its annoying. So once I start committing myself to girls and being more aggressive, I'm confident I'll see some great results. :)

Plausible Deniability Gives Her Permission To Touch Me?

I brought an origami fortune teller to a party last night. Except instead of fortunes, there were dares in it. Here in Canada we call this a cootie catcher. I thought it'd really add value to the party. :) So I was bantering with these two girls but there was no touching going on at all. Then I brought out the cootie catcher. Girl 1 was eager to play. Her dare is to kiss someone on the cheek. She ends up kissing my cheek. Almost immediately afterwards she starts touching me a lot as we continue our conversation. Kinda weird - how come she started getting really touchy after the kiss? Anyways, I started touching her a little bit too. A guy walked up shortly after. Him and Girl 1 got into conversation...they knew each other and they hadn't seen each other in a while. I started chatting with Girl 2 while I was waiting for their conversation to finish... but we weren't really I just left. Later I saw Girl 1 leaving. I pulled her in and we made out before she left.

Playing Some Games

Same party, different girl (who I had flirted with earlier in the night), mid conversation in a group of people:

Girl: your cootie catcher is looking pretty destroyed
backstory: yeah, i know. we can make another one later when we get home :) *looks away*
Girl: *'can't believe he just said that' face*
backstory: *starts talking to someone else in the group*

Worst Missed Opportunity

Once again...same party and different girl (Kathy). She agreed to get a dare from my cootie catcher. The dare was "be blindfolded and lick a random object." Haha. Kathy was surprised I had brought a blindfold, but complied nonetheless and put it on. I got her to lick a condom wrapper, it was amusing. Afterwards we exchanged some small talk, and said goodbye on warm terms - there was definitely some attraction between us. Later on I see her sitting on a chair. I go up to her and sit on her lap without saying anything - I don't even look at her. Then I get off of her, walk away and start chatting with a different girl. As I'm chatting with this girl, I see Kathy looking in my general direction. I swear she was giving me sparkly eyes, but I'm not entirely sure since I was observing this out of the corner of my eye. I really should have went over to her and invited her home right at this very point, but I didn't. Cuz I'm lame.

Later I go looking for her and find her outside with two guys. As I'm walking over, she says, "there's the guy who made me lick a condom!" I say to her, "hey lets get out of here and go somewhere more quiet" but she doesn't hear it - she's talking to one of the guys about how she's getting home. A cab shows up. Kathy walks over to the cab alone. A group of two guys tries to get into the cab before she can get in. They have a little bit of an argument over it but they end up giving the cab to her. She gets in the cab alone and leaves.

Looking back, I probably could have tried to at least hop in the cab with her. If those two guys had taken the cab instead I would definitely have seized the chance to ask her home again. Overall this is an inexcusable missed opportunity though - i'm really kicking myself over it.

Help From Friends

One good thing I'm noticing lately is that girls are HELPING ME/rooting for me to hook up with their friends.

For example, at the bar two weeks ago, I was talking to this short girl. Her tall friend was repeatedly saying that me and the short girl would be cute together. Lol, it was like she was the mom of the group or something. Anyways, the short girl and I started making out. After a little bit of kissing I tell her I'll come find her later. Then later it's 2AM and she's dancing and making out with some guy. I go up to her and say, "YOU'RE COMING HOME WITH ME." She and the guy give me a bitchy look. I left and went to find a different girl to flirt with.

Introducing Tension

backstory: you know what i heard about curly haired girls?
curly haired girls: what!?
backstory: i heard they’re down for anything
curly haired girl 1: i dont think so….
backstory: you’re not truly a curled haired girl then.

Why Are You So Aggressive?

I met a girl at the bar, who was friends with some other girls I knew there. I talked to her throughout the night intermittedly. I was laying down a lot of sexual innuendos and trying to make out with her. She wouldn't let me though. At the end of the night she said goodbye to me and tried to shake my hand. Instead of letting her shake my hand I tried making out with her. She wouldn't let me again. She starts complaining:

Girl: why are you so aggressive?!

I Got Interviewed

Approaching a mixed group of girls and guys:

backstory: hey guys
Group: hey
Girl 1: where are you from!??? *in a demanding, very overeager sort of tone. little bit uncalibrated...*
backstory: what is this, a job interview?
Guy 1: nice one bro. *fist bumps me*

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:59 am
by fog
I Go To Madison's House

Last night I went over to a girl's house. Her name is Madison. I met her through facebook 3 years ago. We rarely talked, but we started talking pretty consistently in the past month. Even after we agreed to hang out it took weeks before she was free enough to hang out. She’s a workaholic, so it was a nice challenge to maintain her interest for me.

We had some great conversations - she would always express how intrigued she was by me. I started doing a slight push by having a few alright conversations with her. Then I made sure to have another great conversation with her. After that she was hooked. She messaged me the next day wanting to continue it. I reiterated that we should continue it in person. She said she would let me know when she was free. After that I started ignoring her whenever she messaged me on facebook…i didn’t want to put any more effort in until she put effort into hanging out. Well what do you know...all of a sudden, shes sending me suggestive pictures on snapchat. I ignore one of them, then the next night she sends me another. I reply to that one. She asks me what I'm up to. I push for her to come over to my place but she keeps giving excuses. However she suggests we hang out the next night. I think it was interesting how she started sending me these pictures when I started ignoring her. Also, I had a strong feeling I'm in the boyfriend zone so I was expecting there to be a lot of resistance when we hang out.

The next night her and I are sitting outside on her porch. She chooses to sit on the opposite end of the porch. I’m not worried about it - I know we're gonna end up sitting beside each other eventually. I deep dive her.

Later I tell her I'm gonna read her palm and use this as an excuse to break the touch barrier between us. After the palm read she starts touching me and giving me "almost touches" as well. Funny how girls just need the touch barrier to be broken in some way by me before they start touching me lately.

Eventually she’s starting to get a little distant and aloof, totally avoiding eye contact and not contributing as much to the conversation…I know my attainability is becoming low and she’s going into auto rejection so I kiss her neck. However after this the mood is still a little bit too serious for my liking...i start telling her a story that i always tell before i start kissing a girl. It always lightens things up. :) We end up sitting directly beside each other, legs touching, and the vibe is really good. We're really clicking. After making out a few times she’s become very enthusiastic. It's a total 180 from how she was behaving before.

I tell her we should go inside because i’m cold from sitting outside. We go inside and sit on her bed. Except she’s being all shy - she’s laying on her belly, not looking at me, and paying attention to her phone. I think she’s nervous…or just not mentally ready yet...or playing hard to get, I'm not sure. I didn’t want to rush things, usually in this case I would give her some space for a bit. However I had to leave to catch my bus soon and wanted to at least see her tits, which were really turning me on.

I start kissing her all over her neck. We make out a few times again but she always stops short. She’s giving me a ton of resistance - she actually gets off the bed, moves far away from me and sits on the floor. However she does have a look of attraction on her face. :) She's constantly asking me what I'm thinking..she says she can usually read people and figure them out, but she can't read me…I was cycling between acting really aloof and acting interested, I think this is why she couldn’t read me.

She eventually got back on the bed and was acting submissive and enthusiastic at the same time. I start being more passionate when kissing her and she starts getting really into it. She’s practically attacking at me at points. But then she stops and is just sitting there breathing like she just had a really intense adrenaline rush. I’ve feel like I’ve built some momentum so I start sucking on her tits. She loves it. We start getting more into things but its time for me to leave.

Throughout the whole time she was projecting into the future, talking about how we're going to be hanging out. She's texting me today as well. I'm curious to see how this will turn out.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:42 pm
by fog
A Breakthrough?

Something strange is going on...

Overnight, approach invitations have become quite pronounced. The amount of women who are giving me them, and frequency and amount of time women spend looking at me are practically exploding. I noticed that the more attractive women are giving me the approach invitations that the less attractive women used to give me. And now the less attractive women are ridiculously blatant with their AIs. It's insane. The other day I had a girl practically stalking me. It was sooo creepy...

The way women react when I open them is different than usual too.

Normally in my dreams at night when I try to hook up with women, I always fail. However things have changed my dreams I am now succeeding with women. I believe that my confidence when it comes to women has been fully internalized - it's reached a subconscious level.

This could be one of the reasons why this is happening. I believe it's a mixture of a lot of other things though, too. Slight tweaks in my fundamentals and game, and improved mindsets...

I feel like I've broken through but don't have the results to show for it yet. So to prove it to myself I'm going to focus on achieving my goal: go from hooking up sometimes to hooking up consistently. I'm pretty sure I can make this happen in the next few weeks.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:15 am
by fog
A Second Chance

Just over a year ago now I was at a party and met this girl who was incredibly straightforward in her interest for me. However at the time I was a complete wimp and didn't go home with her. I can remember how much I was kicking myself after this one.

Today I was at a bus stop and see two girls I know. I'm bantering with them and they are laughing ridiculously hard. Then they gotta leave to get on their bus. I look around briefly to see who else i can talk to - there's two girls in a group to my right. Girl 1 has a pretty cool fashion sense, and Girl 2 looks pretty regular. I'm trying to come up with something witty to say to Girl 1 while also trying to figure out my strategy - should I open just the well dressed girl, or open the both of them...and which angle should I approach at anyways? Girl 2 was in the way so I'd have to go around to get to Girl 1.

While I'm thinking about this, Girl 2 turns around and opens me:

Girl 2: hey you look really familiar, I think we've met before...
backstory: do you say this to every guy you wanna talk to?
Girl 2: no haha i don't
Girl 1: it's a really good line to use though (the "familiar" line is actually the worst line to use)
Girl 2: I think we met at _________
backstory: no i've never heard of that place...

A little bit more conversation goes on and I realize that this is the girl I fucked up with a year ago at that party... I'm about to tell her and start qualifying her a bit but their bus shows up...

Girl 1: this is our bus *starts getting on the bus*
backstory: bummer, we gotta figure this out
Girl 1: tomorrow we will (???)
backstory: okay add me on facebook. my name is backstory

She climbs on the bus and I'm kicking myself. Why did I tell her to add ME? this leaves me not in control of the situation, and besides...she probably won't remember my name. A few minutes later I go on facebook and I have a friend request from her.

We'll see where it ends up.

New Tactic: Humor + An Unreadable Face

Today when I was bantering or saying funny things, I keep a very straight face on instead of smiling/laughing. Girls ate it up like mad. I'll be testing this out some more...

Getting Better at Talking To Certain Types of People

I used to have a really hard time talking to people who are in finance...however, I did find out that in order to be in finance, you have to have a strong attention to detail. I bring this up every time I get into a talk with a finance girl and it helps us get into conversation. However I had one good talk with a girl in the finance program at my college the other day and she went into detail about what finance is all about and the career opportunities and stuff. I am using a lot of the stuff she was saying to structure my conversations with people when talking about their career interests.

Still having problems with the science chicks though...

An Interesting Number Grab

Met this chick from an African country called Cameron today. I opened her with my favourite line that I use lately on girls who look grumpy/upset/tired: "who died?" The conversation was business as usual and I took down her number. She read her number off to me and I put it in my phone. Usually I get them to put it in themselves but after I told her to give me it she just started telling me it and I felt it was better to go with the flow. I did ask her to type her name into my phone though and she put in her full name which is a great sign. :) She also insisted that I text her while we were still talking. I dunno why...either A) she wanted to make sure that she gave me the right number (especially cuz she read it off to me) or B) she thought I was high value and felt like I wouldn't text her. Both possible explanations are positive though - she is definitely interested in seeing me again. If she wasn't why would she worry about giving me the right number?

I was wondering about my attainability afterwards because the last chick who engaged in this sort of behaviour with me definitely thought I was a player and stopped talking to me. The funniest part though was when I asked her to hang out:

backstory: lets go for coffee sometime, as long as you're single.
girl: ummmmmmmmmmmm.....sure.

She said this like she was borderline about to reject me for some reason. I bet she's got a boyfriend. Overall this was an interesting, fun situation for me to get into.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:28 pm
by fog
Trinity Caught Cooties

Tonight I went over to Trinity's place. We made out a bunch and she blew me. No sex because she was on her period. At one point she says this in a really submissive tone:

Trinity: do you like meeee?
backstory: ...well i like how fun you are....and how open minded you are...

I was caught off guard and had no clue what to say. Heck no I don't like her. Later after she's finished blowing me, she comes clean and admits her feelings towards me:

Trinity: I like you so much. do you feel the same?
backstory: i just wanna keep spending time with you and see where it goes
Trinity: my heart fluttered when you said that


Trinity: I haven't felt this way since elementary school

I can't understand why she likes me...we don't even click that well in my opinion.

Making Mistakes With Madison

After I hung out with Madison a few days ago she was initiating contact with me through text for a few days straight. But then she didn't initiate contact for 4 days! Upon further reflection I realized that I missed an escalation window. I should have made plans with her again especially considering she was so enthusiastic to be talking to me after we got together the first time. I don’t know what I was thinking.

Today I texted her and told her we should hang out when I’m back in town and our schedules allow for it. She agreed that we should but she didn’t seem enthusiastic about it. The vibe I was getting was that I let the good emotions that she had for me fade too much.

I am planning to get better at handling the period that occurs between the first time I see a girl, and the second time I see her. If a girl is chasing after I see her for the first time I shouldn’t shy away from setting up another date quickly.

You Are Making This Too Easy For Me Chloe

I met Chloe at a bus stop recently. She was wearing sunglasses but my spidey senses suggested she was giving me an AI. My spidey senses never let me down - she was receptive to my approach and seemed quite engaged with me. Her sunglasses were semi-see through so unfortunately I had a hard time figuring out if she was giving me sparkly eyes or not.

Here are some great signs of interest she showed throughout our chat:

- Halfway through the conversation she demanded to know my name
- Setting up a date with her was painless
- When I got her to type her name + number in my phone, she typed in her full name
- Later I saw she added me on snapchat (i did not accept her request).

She's creative and has a cool fashion sense so I'm interested in seeing how things turn out.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:01 am
by fog
STD Alert

I met a girl named Shayla on Tinder. It was practically 0 effort to end up over at her place.

This chick was insane. She did all the talking, I just sat and listened:

- She repeatedly talks about how she beats everyone up and puts them in comas. I didn't get this. She was practically a twig
- Didn't stop qualifying herself to me and trying to impress me
- Her general demeanour was very bubbly and enthusiastic, and she talked at a very rapid pace and changed topics pretty quickly sometimes
- Would not stop talking about her exes and was telling me her tricks for managing multiple boyfriends at once
- Other outlandish shit

We start hooking up and then in the middle of it she looks like she's going to cry or something!? Like it was just too intense for her... I've never seen anything like it.

Then we go in her bedroom and she's on top of me. She takes off my pants. Admittedly im not hard. Next thing you know she's stuck my soft dick in her pussy WITHOUT A CONDOM and is riding me. How on earth did she do that so quick without me noticing!? She still had her panties on, but I guess she moved them to the side. This really startled me - I start talking about how its too hot and I need water. I get her to get off of me. She gets me water, and has a general look of concern on her face like I hurt her or something. I was probably in her for less than 20 seconds.

I left shortly after. I really hope I don't get an STD. It really startled me how she just stuck it in without even getting me to put on a condom first...i'm still relatively sexually inexperienced so it makes me wonder if this is a normal thing, especially with more sexually experienced chicks.

I probably overreacted...but anyways, I have hickeys on my neck from two separate chicks now. nice.

I'm hanging with trinity tomorrow and I will be writing in my journal soon about the improvements i have been making with my verbal game recently.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:10 am
by Sandman
haha wow chicks be crazy yo! Such a thirsty girl

Why didn't you fuck her after you put on some condoms tho?

And -more experienced players correct me if I'm wrong but - that shit isn't normal. She starts crying and she starts fucking you raw right away? Nah, she was definetely crazy.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:41 pm
by Rain
backstory wrote:STD AlertShe still had her panties on, but I guess she moved them to the side. This really startled me - I start talking about how its too hot and I need water. I get her to get off of me. She gets me water, and has a general look of concern on her face like I hurt her or something. I was probably in her for less than 20 seconds.

I left shortly after. I really hope I don't get an STD. It really startled me how she just stuck it in without even getting me to put on a condom first...i'm still relatively sexually inexperienced so it makes me wonder if this is a normal thing, especially with more sexually experienced chicks.

I probably overreacted...

I have had some not care about condom either. After I mentioned it one said "you obviously care about safe sex", perhaps she didn't. Two other instances where women have lowered themselves on top of me without condom. So yeah they definitely exist. There are instances where I have not ended up using a condom and it has not bothered the woman either. So there are definitely lots women out there who don't always require condom sex. Perhaps that was risky of me in where I did it, and now you have the experience of the first part where they lowered and put it in you can watch out for that in future. Obviously, safest way is always with condom, yes. I have used condoms before as well, I just relaxed a bit on it recently, if they were more attracive or LTR material, perhaps I should not do that as it may create bad habits.

Curious, what things did she say she did to control many boyfriends at once?

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:52 pm
by fog
thanks for the comments and support friends

mrre wrote:Why didn't you fuck her after you put on some condoms tho?

dunnno man just wasn't really feeling it anymore

Rain wrote:Curious, what things did she say she did to control many boyfriends at once?

she was saying that she gives all her boyfriends the same nickname so that way during sex she doesn't accidentally call them the wrong name

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:43 am
by fog
The Last 5%

Walking home from the bar, I spot a girl in a dress walking towards me. She stops; a guy is talking to her.

I go in with slightly high energy and start cockblocking. The guy is getting pissed. He's trying to physically get in between me and the girl. When he doesn't succeed, he addresses me directly:

guy: hey man this is MY GIRL I'm trying to talk to
backstory: *blank stare*

The girl and I start walking away. She starts telling me how it was so creepy that he was talking to her. We exchange some small talk. Then:

backstory: hey you wanna chill for a bit?
girl: yeah i guess you can come over

It was about a 10 minute walk to her house. Although we were just small talking at first, eventually she became more enthusiastic and was talking a lot more. She points out my hickeys. I told her a story about a gay guy who was stalking me. She says:

girl: are you gay?
backstory: no, why are you interested? :)
girl: nono i was just curious cuz of the story

As we are getting closer to her house, she starts calling me "man" with higher frequency. We get into her house and she starts making food. She asks me several times if she should call a cab...

There wasn't really a sexual vibe between us (despite me talking about sexual stuff a few times) and she was busy making food. I wasn't really sure how to lead this to sex. I was tired too. I got in a cab and went home. Coulda been more assertive for sure...

Other Notes

- I'm practising building social momentum fast
- I get girls laughing ridiculously hard with my banter. I'm in the middle of writing a post about it which I'll post soon in the tactics and techniques sub forum.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:46 pm
by fog
Trinity and I have been hanging out the past few days. I'm happy to add another notch to my count. :)

She let me fuck her raw. Just a few days ago I was complaining that some other girl stuck my dick in her pussy without a condom. Hmmmm, what am I thinking...

Anyways she gives half decent blowjobs, orgasms ridiculously easy and she's got the nicest pussy I've ever seen. It'd be cool to spend some more time with her but tomorrow I am heading back home. Hopefully I can keep her around as a fuck buddy for whenever I'm visiting my hometown

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:35 pm
by fog
Non-Stop Sparkly Eyes

I’ve been making improvements to my verbal game lately. As a result I’m noticing that girls are giving me the sparkly eyes more quickly than ever before. However I’m also sending girls into auto rejection real quick because I’m being a challenging jerk. I really need to be a jerk strategically. Here’s some things I've been working on:

- I’m avoiding getting onto topics that EVERY other guy talks about them like: whats your name? what do you do? where are you from? These topics are boring and get me nowhere in making the girl thinking I’m interesting, unless I’m using them as a stepping stone to get to some deep diving. No more casual chit chat! I want all my conversations with girls to be flirting.

- Similarly when girls asks me these questions, I use them as an opportunity to banter and flirt.

- I’m using push tricks that girls use on me, back on them. For example, sometimes they will tell me their name, without me asking. I will say “i didn’t ask for it.” In other situations, I will call them creepy. These are powerful and give me the upper hand but ruin my attainability.

- I started using a low effort way to get information from girls. Instead of asking them questions, i make some sort of stupid assumption about them which is obviously not true. then they volunteer the true information to me. For example:

backstory: you seem like you could be a lawyer
girl: haha no I’m actually going to school for architecture

- Overall I’m putting a lot less effort into my conversations. I'm purposely letting conversations die/saying way less to see if the girl will put more effort into continuing it with me. I can't believe how hard I was trying before...

- I’m looking for ways to make girls want me to qualify them. More on this later, I’m still working on it.

- Here are some lines I’m using lately:

you can't look at me like that and not say hi

This seems to be a great line for girls who are giving me approach invitations. I find that when I go up to them and say this, they bow their head and then say hello.

i didn't realize you were that type of girl

This is a line that will really get a girl's hamster wheels turning. If you go up to her and use this line she will automatically assume it's bad, but she will also be curious.

- I’ve been practising flashing girls quick facial expressions, rather than making facial expressions and holding them. I rarely ever smile when talking to girls anymore.

- I've been using anchoring. If girls start saying stuff I don't like, I start paying less attention.

- I am being more challenging with girls so I am getting tested a lot…as a result I am being thrown into situations where I don’t know what to say and I fail the test. I am making lists of everything girls are saying to me and then coming up with replies so I will know exactly what to say next time if it happens.

- I stopped wearing deodorant and rarely use soap anymore. I believe this has had a huge impact on my game. I haven't made any big changes to my fundamentals besides this lately, yet attraction from women has spiked. For example, today a girl was staring at me hard and playing with her hair. That never used to happen. Last week a girl who couldn't speak english was so excited/nervous by my presence that she was preening her hair very consistently and quickly with both hands and acting submissive.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:48 pm
by kristian
you can't look at me like that and not say hi

Awesome opener, I am borrowing that!

Cool to hear you're making improvements, backstory. And like you've said before, I think we might be at a similar level with our games and fundamentals.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:15 pm
by fog
kristian wrote:
you can't look at me like that and not say hi

Awesome opener, I am borrowing that!

you'll have to let me know how it works out for you

New Tactic: Pregnant Pause + Eye Contact

In conversations lately, I am being guided by my spidey senses. If I am in a conversation and I do something that feels right, I take note. If I am in a conversation and I do something that feels wrong (even though I don't know why it may be wrong yet) I take note.

As a result of my spidey senses I'm working on this new tactic. Last night at a party I held eye contact with someone while using a pregnant pause towards the start of our conversation. It felt so right and I could clearly see that it impacted the other person. I know I have done this in the past accidentally but the whole idea of it came to my conscious mind last night.

I'm not exactly sure how to efficiently use this tactic yet but I'm going to experiment with the length of the pregnant pause, the amount of eye contact, and how early I use it in the conversation.

Banter Improvements

I'm getting people cracking up like mad with my banter lately. I'm trying to structure my banter so it's a lot less obvious - you have to do a tiny bit of reading between the lines to get it and that's what makes it so much more wittier and funnier.

I feel like some of the things I've said in the past when bantering are so dumb and obvious. That's how I know I've improved. However sometimes I still say these obvious things and people love it...

Been studying witty people lately and I'm going to continue to do that.

Good Fundamentals Result in Quicker Escalation Windows

This is bugging me so much. When I'm at the bar girls will be giving me looks all night. Then when I go up to them they're not interested at all! Or they will give me an approach invitation, but I don't take them up on it. Then I go up to them later and they ignore me. Maybe it's a rebuff, I dunno.

Last night I was bantering with this girl. She was into it and she gave me this sort of interesting look. Shortly after she sabotaged herself, calling herself annoying and dis-engaging in the conversation. Changing baseline facial expressions are usually a sign of an escalation window opening.

I'm thinking that solid fundamentals make girls give you quicker and shorter escalation windows initially, and also make them go into auto rejection harder if you miss them. Maybe....the shorter you've known the girl for, the quicker the auto rejection because there's less investment. Idk, gotta think some more on this.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:43 am
by fog

I met Destiny on tinder. She was chasing me from the start.

She came over to my place tonight. We made out a lot but she has me in the boyfriend zone for sure.

She started testing my frame towards the end when she had to go. I found this interesting.

Overall it was too easy for me. She wants to hang out tomorrow.

Date with Nicky

I also met her on tinder.

She didnt seem too into me, but I intrigued her enough that she agreed to meet up with me. We met at a coffee shop a week and a half ago. It was an uphill battle to begin with - she was cold and unemotional towards me and it didn't help that my fundamentals were off.

She did warm up a little bit after some banter and and her facial expressions changed. She went from emotionless, to giving me these sexy smiles once in a while. If there was any time to make a move it would of been then.

I was debating whether i should ask her to come home with me or not. Not because I was afraid to, but because I didn't exactly find her that attractive. She looked a lot different than her pictures.

Later on I told her to come outside with me. She gave me a disgusted look but agreed. We're sitting outside and she says:

Nicky: Why are you on tinder?

If I had a chance before, it was definitely too late she's asking me this, my phone starts ringing and I answer it. I get off the phone and say this:

backstory: come see my cats
Nicky: I'm good.

I chose the most awkward time to ask her to come back to my place - right after she subtly asked me to clarify her intentions with her due to a missed escalation window. It's no surprise she said no. I wanted to crawl into a hole and die after this.

This is a lesson for me. Although I feel I didn't really stand a chance to begin with, I could have seen a little bit more success by asking her to come home with me earlier. In the past during dates I have asked girls to come home with me too early, and I have asked girls to come home with me too late. When is the best time to ask? Next time I will try asking whenever I see that the girl has changed her baseline facial expression.

Update on Stuff

I haven't been cold approaching. I've been focusing on working out and starting a business. I miss cold approaching and can't wait to get back into it after I get these other priorities out of the way.

I've been reading a lot of chateau heartiste

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:02 am
by fog
i banged destiny, she's weird as heck... she won't stop licking me...and my neck is one giant hickey. she's chasing me really hard too

I'm gonna do an experiment. I'm gonna do a huge push and tell her I'm not looking for anything serious right now, and see how she reacts...

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:21 am
by Sandman
backstory wrote:i banged destiny, she's weird as heck... she won't stop licking me...and my neck is one giant hickey. she's chasing me really hard too

I'm gonna do an experiment. I'm gonna do a huge push and tell her I'm not looking for anything serious right now, and see how she reacts...

Do you think she will be more interested in you? I think it'd just kill your attainability. She's chasing you hard as is. I can see why you'd wanna experiment but if you want her as a fuck buddy better not to state that outright, it should be implied not explicit^^

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:16 am
by fog
mrre wrote:
backstory wrote:i banged destiny, she's weird as heck... she won't stop licking me...and my neck is one giant hickey. she's chasing me really hard too

I'm gonna do an experiment. I'm gonna do a huge push and tell her I'm not looking for anything serious right now, and see how she reacts...

Do you think she will be more interested in you? I think it'd just kill your attainability. She's chasing you hard as is. I can see why you'd wanna experiment but if you want her as a fuck buddy better not to state that outright, it should be implied not explicit^^

hm, you are right in the fact that it should be implied and not explicit. i will take this into consideration, thanks

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:08 pm
by fog
Medical Distress Ripoff

I had Chloe over today that I met in this journal entry viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11327&start=200#p85056 under "You are Making This Too Easy For me Chloe"

When she got to my place we sat in my room for about 15 minutes chatting, then went and made lunch, then went back in my room afterwards. Her vibe seemed a little too polite but I knew I could get things turned around with a little banter, more touching, and some solid deep diving. So uh, we get back to my room after lunch and I'm working on these things. Her vibe was getting better.

All of a sudden she gets a call from her roommate who is in medical distress, and she leaves 2 minutes later to go help her out. Right after the call I was wondering if I should at least escalate a lot more (like a neck kiss) to convey clear sexual intent before she left. My spidey senses told me not to do this.

Every time I have a daytime date, there's always time pressure because the girl has to go do other stuff with friends or whatever. So from now on I'm gonna schedule things for night.

I will have to think about if I moved too slow or not, but I didn't notice any escalation windows so I think I'm in the clear. My only mistake was that I talked a little bit too much about myself. She was here for about an hour and a half. What a rip off, I was certain I had this in the bag

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:28 pm
by fog
Fundamentals Update - Diet & Health

I have been vegan for 2 months now. I believe I am at roughly 15% body fat because my abs are coming in - I have a nice 4 pack. Overall I’m in good shape, I would like some more muscles though.

Today I am making some further changes to my diet so I can reduce my body fat percentage more to get a 6 pack. I am counting my calories and measuring my macronutrients. I am going to be reducing the amount of healthy fats I eat while increasing the amount of protein I eat. I am having a hard time finding vegan foods that are high in protein while low in fat. I might need to buy some protein powder.

I’ve been going to the gym 4-5 times a week. The testosterone I am getting from my workouts has been incredibly beneficial for me. Sometimes I find myself feeling slightly unconfident, and when I do I force myself to recorrect my thoughts, body language, and behaviour so that I am more confident. Eventually I won’t have to consciously recorrect these things, they will automatically happen and I’ll naturally appear confident at all times.

Holding a strong frame and being charismatic is all about confidence, I believe.

I'm itching to get back into cold approach soon...getting lots of approach invitations lately.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:39 pm
by fog
Zyra The Egyptian

I met zyra on facebook. We talked a few times, it was about being business partners for something - 100% platonic stuff. We stopped talking. But then, a few months later out of nowhere, she invited me to her birthday party. I wasn't able to make it. However, afterwards we started talking in a less than platonic way. A little bit of flirting and banter, but neither of us directly stated our interest in each other. While all of this was happening, she was being quite persistent and kept suggesting times that we hang out. I was unsure as to why she wanted to hang out. We barely even knew each other. I was thinking, wow this is how a chick must feels when a guy asks for her phone number/to hang out and he didn't even bother to qualify her.

Anyways, life always got in the way so we didn't hang out...but i ended up grabbing her cell phone number. We texted a little bit, I would sometimes take forever to reply. Like 2 days sometimes. Here's our most recent text exchange which I find a little bizarre, especially towards the end.

November 3rd
backstory: what're your plans for this weekend and early next week?
zyra: chilling hbu? lol
November 5th, 10:55am
backstory: same sorta deal sorta
backstory: getting out of this massive hole i was in
zyra: tell me about it
backstory: tell me about it as in you were in a hole too or you want me to explain to you why i was in a hole
zyra: explain
backstory: i almost died
zyra: legit?
backstory: yes i almost died legitimately from starvation
zyra: you should've ate something :o
backstory: a very helpful tip from the one and only zyra
zyra: lmao thanks
zyra: i put a lot of effort in that tip
backstory: i can tell ;) i actually did eat...something. long story though, how about we talk more when we meet up?
zyra: ok that sounds good
backstory: i got a very helpful tip to share with you right now
zyra: ok lets hear
backstory: an apple a day keeps the doctor away
zyra: very helpful backstory ;)
backstory: don't mention it. i got dozens of others if you're ever in a predicament, which i bet you are quite often
backstory: lets hang this week? i finally got time
zyra: ill need lots of your pointers. and yes! like cmon backstory we gotta get together man
backstory: i've been slacking I know :)
backstory: what day works for you
November 5th, 5:51pm
zyra: why ;) and hmm what days for you? so i have an idea of what works
November 5th, 6:25pm
zyra: you know backstory i do think you're cute if I'm being honest
November 5th, 10:22pm
backstory: thanks, you're very forward i like that about you
backstory: best days for me are definitely monday tuesday and wednesday in the evening

1. I almost said, "you've been slacking" but decided that it would set the wrong frame. Instead I chose to say that "Ive been slacking" to make it seem like she consistently asks me to hang out and I've been putting it off. Gives me the upper hand.

2. When i say "what day works for you", she replies 5 hours later. This was after she was replying non-stop. Could be a coincidence, but I think she took forever to reply on purpose.

3. After she says, "why ;) and hmm what days for you? so i have an idea of what works", she texts me again 30 minutes later to tell me that she thinks I'm cute. This was really random. Up until this point there had been no direct statements of interest...just a bit of banter and flirting. Why did she do this? Maybe as a way to gauge my interest? Maybe as a way to set the frame of our interaction when we hang out? Could this be linked to my comment about slacking?

4. I had to take my attainability into account with my reply. I didn't want to come across as too attainable by calling her cute as well, and at the same time I didn't want to come across as unattainable by just playing it cool. So I decided to qualify her on an aspect of her personality, the fact that she is very straightforward. Which she is. The reply I chose, I believed it would allow me to be attainable while still keeping the carrot dangling in front of her.

5. After this, she has not gotten back to me for two days - this is the longest time she's ever taken to reply when we were talking. I wonder if she's doing this on purpose to see if I'll chase, or something like that? Perhaps my reply to her statement of interest actually made my attainability tank. Or, maybe she's really busy. I will have to think about this some more.

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:24 am
by kristian

I clearly recognize some of the patterns here: You talk to a girl and she seems interested to meet up then suddenly- as you ask her out - she stops responding or take forever to respond. Could be she is pinging different guys at the same time and want to know what options she has before committing. If I where you I would invite her out from the very beginning, around 3rd November - just in case another guy acts faster and she is already taken.

Reminds me that girls also have a shotgun mentality to see what they can get. But what do I know? I just try to move as fast as possible and go for being too attainable than too unattainable (because I know women have other options).

Let me know how it work out.

- Kristian

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:47 am
by Sandman
backstory wrote:Zyra The Egyptian

4. I had to take my attainability into account with my reply. I didn't want to come across as too attainable by calling her cute as well, and at the same time I didn't want to come across as unattainable by just playing it cool. So I decided to qualify her on an aspect of her personality, the fact that she is very straightforward. Which she is. The reply I chose, I believed it would allow me to be attainable while still keeping the carrot dangling in front of her.

5. After this, she has not gotten back to me for two days - this is the longest time she's ever taken to reply when we were talking. I wonder if she's doing this on purpose to see if I'll chase, or something like that? Perhaps my reply to her statement of interest actually made my attainability tank. Or, maybe she's really busy. I will have to think about this some more.

I love how you anaylize everything, best way to learn!

Great frame with "I've been slacking".

If a girl gives you a compliment I think it's just best to say "thank you :)" and move on. Saying "you are very forward" does hurt your attainability even if you follow that up with "I like that about you". Imagine a girl telling you that, you would be pleased perhaps but would you also think that maybe you *are* being very forward? Next time you wanted to compliment her or show interest again, you would think twice, no? For girls this (not being seen as forward) is much more important.

If you are talking in real life maybe you can pull that method off but on texting it's not easy to convey warmth hence bigger risk of autorejection. I struggled with this before, girl would compliment me and I wouldn't know what to do. Now I just say thank you and act a bit more warm and move her.

I don't think btw that this situation is unsalvagable. Let's see if she replies :)

Re: backstory's frontstory

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:07 am
by kristian
If a girl gives you a compliment I think it's just best to say "thank you :)" and move on. Saying "you are very forward" does hurt your attainability even if you follow that up "I like that about you". Imagine a girl telling you that, you would be pleased perhaps but would you also think that maybe you *are* being very forward. Next time you wanted to compliment her or show interest again you would think twice, no? For girls this (not being seen as forward) is much more important.

Eye-opening, thank you!

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:06 pm
by fog
kristian and mrre,

thanks for the insights.

mrre wrote:I don't think btw that this situation is unsalvagable. Let's see if she replies :)

She hasn't gotten back to me. What do you think I should do?

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:56 pm
by Sandman
songbird fog wrote:kristian and mrre,

thanks for the insights.

mrre wrote:I don't think btw that this situation is unsalvagable. Let's see if she replies :)

She hasn't gotten back to me. What do you think I should do?

You are welcome :)

Tough question. I would send her one more text regarding the plans to meet up. But if she doesn't reply or evades setting up a date delete her number.

It might be a better strategy to just wait for her to iniate especially if there's already a dynamic in place where she texts you more often because of congruence. But her attainability might be low already so I'd go with the first option.

But I'm usually an all or nothing guy. So I just don't care for the chance for her initiating text. I'd rather know if it's happening or not. Chased a few evasive girls for a date (as in time) in the past. Not fun.

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:10 pm
by fog
A Conversation I'm Proud Of

I met a girl on tinder, and the conversation went extremely well. Here it is:

fog: City Name 1 girl?
athena: just for school! i live in City 2 full time
fog: that’s odd. i know what City Name 1 girls are like
athena: haha oh yeah? smart, funny, and beautiful?
fog: only 2 out of the 3 ;)
fog: you probably have a good idea of what the two are
athena: smart and funny?
fog: wow athena…calling City Name 1 girls ugly…so cold, so cold :)
athena: ahah nah just this one :p
fog: someone has got to take one for the team right?
athena: exactly! thank you
fog: what do you like to cook? I’m really curious, I’m making my grocery list for tomorrow atm (in her tinder profile it says she likes to cook)
athena: well yesterday i had home made turkey soup and that was super tasty :) but you need a whole carcass from a roasted turkey to do that
fog: that sounds pretty tasty right now because I’m vegan so i dont eat meat </3
fog: where on earth did you find a whole turkey though? are you hiding something from me...
athena: haha oh shoot. yeah that wouldn't be very yummy for you then. i cooked thanksgiving dinner for my friends and had saved the bones to make soup with
fog: wow ok i thought you were a hunter who drinks lots of beer with old men and shoots animals
athena: no, i actually disagree with most hunting practises and have been trying to transition into becoming a vegetarian
athena: it just seems wasteful to throw away the bones when they could be used
fog: yea, that’s pretty resourceful of you. how are things on your journey to becoming a vegetarian? it can be tough at first! i know a lot of people say they could never quit meat
athena: its really hard, because i don’t dislike the taste. but i am doing pretty good so far. i usually only eat meat 3-4 times a week now. and i avoid buying it. i am becoming very good at making indian food.
fog: indian food!?? you cant be serious!
athena: yes, i have perfected the ideal gravy - garlic, onion, green chillies, tomato and oil
fog: you are making me hungry athena
athena: i know my food :) i make a mean vegan eggplant parmesan as well.
fog: uh hellooo i definitely wanna taste that. we should get together sometime :) do some cooking or something.
athena: definitely, i love to cook. my apartment is small but it has a functional kitchen :)
fog: niceee. do you have a functional cell phone? text me and we can sort some plans out xxx-xxx-xxx. (I used the word functional to make my compliance test seem related and not random. sort of like a call back almost)

My phone buzzes and I get a text:

athena: proof that i have a functional cell phone! Ps its athena.
fog: hi atheeno

At this point i wasn’t really sure what to say… should i continue with the cooking thread, try to sort plans out, or switch to a completely new thread to build more rapport then sort plans out? I was thinking I needed to build some more rapport. If I didn’t do that, she’d probably forget about me while she was in Florida. I decided to go with a warm read. In her profile it said she likes to try new I said this:

fog: i feel as though you are quite an open minded person.
athena: hello! and yes, i tend to be.
fog: is it a personal choice or have you always been that way? why do you think you are open minded?
athena: i think it is partially to do with how i was raised and partially a choice. i make an effort to expand my mind and consider all sides to an argument. which in turn makes you more open and willing to accept peoples opinions and views.
fog: so what you’re saying is that you take the bigger picture into account which makes you more adaptable to the perceptions of other people?
athena: exactly :) not everything is so right or wrong. its multifaceted.

I find that when I use active listening properly, a common response from girls is “exactly.”

fog: no kidding… i feel like a lot of people fall into this trap of thinking and perceiving everything in a black or white way, which is so limiting isn’t it?
athena: it really is and i find it leads to a lot of judgement from people who claim to be “open” but really just have more liberal ideals and think everything else is wrong.
fog: ive met people like that before. they are not fun to be around.
fog: whats your schedule like for the rest of the week?
athena: i am completely booked. i am leaving for florida on thursday. but next week i am available on tuesday night and wednesday night.
fog: florida is a lot of fun. ok how about we aim to get together tuesday night
athena: awesome! i am pretty excited. i am going to disney world for the first time :)
fog: haha, be careful there. what are you looking forward to the most about disney world?
athena: i love roller coasters so I’m pumped to spend 5 days riding them.

This is the perfect time to break out a pattern I like to use sometimes:

fog: SOMEONE is an adrenaline junkie ;)
athena: yup, i love it. the feeling just before you drop is awesome
fog: yeah i know…theres that awesome buildup of anticipation going up the tracks. your heart starts beating faster, your breathing starts to come faster and faster…you just get more and more excited.
athena: and then the rush you feel. its awesome.
fog: a friend and i were talking about that specific feeling a while back and she compared it to feeling similar to an orgasm.

No response after a string of consistent replies. Huh, weird. She doesn’t get back to me until two days later. I think the late reply was a test due to my sexual comment:

athena: that is an understatement. my orgasms are way better than a roller coaster.

It's a great transition into sex talk, but that’s where the conversation ends. She’s in florida right now so I’m gonna wait until closer to tuesday to get ahold of her.

This was a really good conversation though….little bit of banter/lightheartedness (she didn't seem to be into it though, so i didnt push it), asking her to hang out came at the right time, i made the decision to build extra rapport and did it well, i used a pattern and introduced some tension into the conversation with the orgasm comment. I’ll let you guys know if this goes anywhere. Even if it doesn't, I learned some stuff. For some reason this girl is giving me vibes that other sexually open girls have given me before.

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:31 pm
by fog
My Biggest Sticking Point

Last night I was at a party. I did have a good time, but when I got home I felt an overwhelming sense of disappointment.

The disappointment I felt was due to a sticking point that I know I've had for a while, but haven't done anything to fix it quite yet.

The sticking point I am talking about is mid-game. I am doing well early.. touch, banter, chase frames, basic stuff like that at the start of the interaction. But mid game, when the attraction is solid and it's time to escalate to bigger things, like moving and isolating girls, building comfort, upping my kino....this is where I am seriously lacking in experience. It pisses me off. Why is this happening? I realize it's all due to my mindset.

When a girl shows interest, I downplay it in my head as no big deal which I’m sure comes across as un-needy, which is great. But at the same time, its resulting in missed opportunities, because I feel like the girl isn't interested in me when she obviously is.

So I'm gonna set some ground rules that I can follow to make sure I can get past this sticking point while still maintaining this un-needy vibe/mindset. I know HOW to do it, I have all the tools to succeed, so this will be an easy sticking point to get past if I follow these basic rules:

Girl is into my banter -> Move her somewhere, switch into rapport building
Girl is staring at me, refusing to break eye contact -> increase kino, invite her home
Talking for more than 5 minutes -> Move her somewhere
Target isn't interested, but friend is -> Switch attention to friend
Girl who is interested in you is glued to her friend -> Isolate

The Party

As I mentioned, it was a good time. It's been a while since I been out, so I wasn't surprised to notice the return of an old friend: approach anxiety. Everytime I get approach anxiety, I alter my thought patterns and think this: this is not the feeling of nervousness, this is the feeling of anticipation.

This is how I kickstart social momentum really quickly. I've analyzed my mindsets when I had social momentum, and I found that I am excited to meet new people in this state. not nervous.

I was wearing black skinny jeans, blue doc martens, a long baggy retro white casino sweater and a long neon turquoise splash jacket/parka. Girls reacted to this a lot.

I open this one girl, and she goes into auto rejection and starts being rude because I "look like I'm from the 80s." What? That's usually something someone would like. Realized I was unattainable to her, she just needed a reason to make it logical for her.

I go to walk outside, I see these two girls steal a glance at me. I open them, I can't remember what I said. Girl 1 starts touching me first. Anyways, they start calling me "dad" because I "look like I'm from the 80s." (Definitely found a good 80s look, I'm happy about this) This is great. I immediately start a role play where I am the dad and they are my misbehaving daughters. They love it. I love it too because this role play automatically makes me an authority figure as long as I hold my frames. Girl 2 gets distracted by some cockblocks for a second. Girl 1 isn't doing anything so I take advantage of the interruption to talk to her, but I hit a vocal fumble and don't know what to say. Anyways, this dude interrupts:

cockblock: hey dude leave these girls alone, stop giving them a hard time, they are just trying to have a good night
fog: nah bro its the other way around, they are giving ME a hard time! my daughters are begging me to make them supper after ive had a long day at work.
girls: *giggling*
girls 1: i like him!
girl 2: i hate him
girl 1: lets get a picture with him.

So they give their phone to the cockblock, and he's setting up to take a picture. I say to the girls:

fog: kisses now.
girls: *both kissing my cheeks*
cockblock: ok i got the picture
girl 2: what should i caption it? (it was for snapchat)
girl 1: we saw dad at the party

I thought this was hilarious because the cockblock tried to put me in a negative frame, but I reversed the frame effectively while using the role play to make him look like an idiot and to build an us vs the world vibe with the girls. Then he had to take a picture of me with the girls kissing me.

Anyways, after this I didn't really know what to say or do. This would have been a perfect time to escalate more, but...I just walked away. Later on I see the girls as they're walking by. They give me more cheek kisses and run off.

Later later on, I'm talking to them and they ask me for my name:

Girl 1: what's your name?
fog: songbird fog
Girl 2: ew that's a gross name
Girl 1: ya i really don't like that name

Simple test here, I didn't say anything and just ignored it.

LATER LATER on, I'm sitting on a very comfy 1 seater chair. The girls come up to me. One is sitting on the arm of the chair, the other is standing up. They are talking with each other, then they start talking to me. I pull Girl 1 off the arm to sit in my lap. She sort of just falls into this awkward position, she's like laying on me. She gets off, and then the girls are asking me to take a picture of them:

Girl 2: hey will you take a picture of us?
fog: no
Girl 2: come on!!!! pleaseeeee
fog: go find someone else to take your picture.

Girl 1 (the one who's interested in me), plants herself on her knees by the arm of the chair and starts staring at me. She's giving her best begging look to convince her dad to take the picture. This staring contest goes on for ages. Man, what a great opportunity to escalate or use a chase frame OR SOMETHING..... she'd already initiated touching me, she'd kissed my cheek a few times, now she's staring at me...SHE'S OBVIOUSLY INTERESTED....yet I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING! All I did was hold her hand briefly, which is early game stuff. Could have been an easy lay with some isolation and a tiny bit of rapport building.

Besides that, I was getting some blatantly obvious AIs from some hot as fuck girls that I felt were out of my league. I didn't approach though, that's the next mindset fix I'm planning on working on. I'm scared of the hot girls, I believe I don't deserve them and don't have what it takes to compete for them. Thing is, I've been working on my fundamentals and vibe for ages now and feel like they're getting pretty solid, so this mindset is invalid.

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:34 pm
by fog
My sex drive has been MIA ever since I started dieting to lower my body fat % 3-4 months ago now. I feel pretty lethargic all the time. However, the moment I started pushing myself 10x as hard in the gym is the moment my sex drive started coming back.

I started cold approaching again. I'm easing back into it and not putting in a lot of effort. Doing a bunch of small talk and stuff, not trying to make anything happen. It feels so right, natural and easy to be doing it. I believe that I feel this way because of my increased testosterone.

Been working on my mindsets lately as well:

1. I think to myself every day, "all girls are advancing on me for sex." This is already changing the way I behave towards women. It's very similar to the "assume attraction" mindset recommended by GC, but I feel like this mindset is more specific and works a little bit better for me.

2. In the past I never took status into account. I didn't have a solid strategy to establish myself as the higher status person in my interactions, and left it up to chance. So now I am operating under the mindset of, "I am higher status than every girl." Just like the first mindset change i mentioned, this is changing the way I act around women. Obviously this mindset won't do it all for me though, there's still work to be done on my fundamentals and game.I am eager to be intimidating.

I'm pretty interested in learning how to manipulate girls. Ideally, I would know exactly where the interaction is headed, and how to make the girl act and feel a certain way for my own benefit. For example it would be pretty cool to know how to get a girl to brag about herself. Then I would take her down a notch. i guess this is a lot of what seduction is about, and this would come with experience. I've sorta been studying the dark triad.

Every time I make and hold eye contact with random girls on the street (which is happening more often and for longer amounts of time lately it seems. maybe due to the fact that I am being more bold?), I never look away first. I am overwhelmingly confident that I will not look away first. I used to be sort of nervous that she would find me creepy or it would feel awkward for me and as a result I would doubt myself. Now I don't give a shit. I'm also not afraid to stare at girls who aren't looking at me. If they catch me, who cares... i am not embarrassed about my sexual intentions and I'll do what I want.

One last thing: I stopped using deodorant over the summer, but a few months ago I stopped using soap all together as well.

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:43 pm
by fog
Hi friends, been a while.

I’ve known this girl called Rachel for a few years now. We have each other on facebook, but never met in person. A few years back we made plans for her to come over to my place. BUT...I ditched her. We remained in contact, talking occasionally. A few months ago I started talking to her again, wanting to make some plans with her. She was playing games...being all wishy washy. You know, giving me “maybes” and stuff like that and being suspicious about my intentions. Looking back, I was borderline chasing her/being a little needy. I gave up and we fell out of contact again.

The other day, she messages me on facebook out of the blue and says to me, “I saw you the other day.” Girls say this stuff for a reason! I knew she liked what she saw and wanted to hang, but I wasn’t about to be the first one to ask. Instead I wanted to experiment and see if I could get HER to ask ME to hang out. I was dropping hints, but it wasn’t working, so I said, “let’s hang.” She said she was down, and we continued making plans:

rach: what do you wanna do?
fog: good question
rach: hahaha
fog: we could get smashed off some coffee and watch old cartoons
rach: lol do you drink wine
fog: ya
rach: wines always a fun time
fog: split a bottle with me
rach: maybe i will
rach: where do you live

She’s making things real easy by suggesting we do something more PG-13 and inviting herself over to my house.

The next night a very testy Rach is in my room with me. We are clicking really well, and in no time at all we can’t keep our hands off each other. ;)

However, it seems she put me in the boyfriend zone right away. She was:

1. talking about us hanging out again in the future
2. cuddling me
3. giving me strong resistance (wouldn’t let me take off her shirt and pants)

This is similar behaviour to several other girls I’ve been with who have dumped me into the boyfriend zone quickly. In the past, I have scared these girls off by acting like a fuckboy. I would try to rush them and be a little too mysterious. Last night made me realize that I’ve likely been dealing with tests from these girls wrong as well. I realize that tests are a little different when youre dealing with a girl who has you in the boyfriend zone vs a girl who just wants to bang.

I realized this while I was with Rach, so I was having a hard time trying to answer her tests quickly and cleverly on the fly. On top of that, she also threw me some tests I had never heard before.

For example, she asked,

Rach: When was the last time you slept with a girl?
Fog: You’re the first girl I’ve ever talked to.

My goodness, I’ve never gotten that one before. I've been asked how many girls I’ve slept with before, but never this one. Of course I evaded the question but she was very persistent and pestered me for a real answer. Eventually she asked if she was annoying me. I said yes and she didn’t bring it up again. Maybe honesty would have been the best policy here, and with the other tests I got from her:

Rach: Did you know we were gonna end up hooking up?
Fog: No

Rach Why did you invite me over to your house?
Fog: I didn’t, you invited yourself over.

She didn’t believe me, but quickly agreed after she looked back in our chat. :P

Rach: Why did you want to hang out with me?
Fog: Well, I ditched you so long ago and I had to make up for it. Gotta finish what you start. I guess things have come full circle.
Rach: Does this mean it’s the end? Like we aren’t going to hang out again?
Fog: nah, we’ll chill again. Why’d you wanna hang out with me?
Rach: When we were talking on facebook, I thought you were intriguing and wanted to see if you were just as intriguing in person

All sorts of questions about my motivations and intentions. I made sure to include chase frames in my answers, and I also played dumb.

We were talking about sex playlists, and she interpreted what I said as me being a fuckboy. She said it worried her that I might be a manwhore. UGH. I can’t remember exactly what I said, I think I said something like “I used to be a player but not anymore."

I will be doing some research into the best ways to deal with tests from girls who want you as a boyfriend.


I was being quite challenging early on - this was a mistake. My attainability was perfect to begin with, so being a challenge made my attainability get a little bit too low. Later on, whenever I started complimenting and expressing interest in her, she would have a very relieved look on her face - no doubt because my attainability went up when I did this.

I did imply that she was a bitch for some of her overly rude tests - probably dont want to do this at all in the future. It definitely impacted my attainability negatively in this situation. And although her tests didnt affect my emotions, implying she was a bitch might have shown her that they did impact my emotions.

"What Are You Thinking?”

Whenever I would smile or something, she would hound me with the question, “what are you thinking?” A lot of the time, I would say, “nothing” (which was true, my mind was pretty blank). Or I would refuse to tell her. I don’t have to reveal my thoughts all the time. Sometimes I would tell her what was on my mind though.

I asked her why she kept asking me this question. She said I always had a thoughtful look on my face that made her curious.

This isn’t the first girl who hounded me with this question while we were together. It happened with another girl who also put me in the boyfriend zone. I refused to tell her at all, and I never saw her again. Likely because something about it gave her fuckboy vibes.

Positive Behavior Reinforcement

I did make sure to use positive behaviour reinforcement like giving her kisses and more touch when she complimented me and said nice things like how she was happy being around me.

The Aftermath

She wanted to sleep over but I didn’t let her. I texted her earlier today:

Fog: yesterday was sooo much fun
Rach: it was, I like hanging out with you

And just now she texted me again:

Rach: do you wanna see me again?

I learned a lot from all this, and I'm interested to see where it goes. I wouldn't mind dating her.

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:54 am
by kristian
However, it seems she put me in the boyfriend zone right away. She was:

1. talking about us hanging out again in the future
2. cuddling me
3. giving me strong resistance (wouldn’t let me take off her shirt and pants)

It's an interesting thing in the seduction community, the compatibility vs skill debate.

What if you did everything right in a seduction sense, but she had other plans right before she met you and she wasn't going to change that no matter what?

From what I've seen in my seductions, the girls I managed to get home and into my bed where very clear non-verbally that they wanted to be seduced, right from the outset. All I had to do was to lead them to the bedroom and show them I wanted them (attainability).

The ones I couldn't seduce has been those who objected from the start. I might have been very clear in my intentions just to find out, she has another man in her life (and we know women that cheat more often are in a relationship that is dead) or that we misunderstood each other.

How do I know this? Every time I see that she won't comply with my sexual advances (I give her several chances of course) I use the following line.

Me: You seem like a cute and interesting person, Gina. And I really like you both physically and sexually. I just don't know if this is mutual. Is it? Or are we wasting our time here? (followed by silence).

The "I just don't know if this is mutual" is important to say. Because one-third of the girls I've said this to actually tell me they like me back, but aren't used to moving THAT fast or have other objections (want to know you're not a player). Usually, all they need is a little more deep diving to justify to themselves that is "safe" to have sex with you or not feel slutty (we don't know everything that's going on their minds).

But other times, it's just that the girl is strong willed and have firm ideas about what she wants to do with you. Just as we do.

I also read somewhere here about stats and the really good seducers have between 50 to 80 percent success rate to seduce in the first date. Even Chase wrote something about "not seeing girls" again if he wasn't able to seduce on the first date. By that line alone, we all know he doesn't seduce every woman he meets up with.

I believe part of their success has a lot to do with finding sexually available girls that are DTF. Its all about screening and then moving forward, which makes sense. Some women are just not looking for that when they meet you. But are intrigued enough.

A long rant here, haha. But try out the "Is it mutual?" line next time. Youll get quite interesting answers and amazing feedback.


And nice to see you back here man!!

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:06 pm
by fog
Daygame & Flirting

Yeaah I started day gaming again the other day. Feels really good, even though i’m a tad rusty. In general I’m feeling very confident in my banter and deep diving. But I came to a realization the other day that I’m not a great flirt. I can flirt non-verbally by doing lip looks and holding strong eye contact, but that’s some basic ass shit. I wanna be able to take girls for a ride with both verbal and non-verbal flirting.

Roissy has a great flirting strategy that he taught, and it was rehashed by Chase in one of his email newsletters. The concept is that you express interest in one way (like verbally) but express disinterest in another way (like nonverbally). And the reason why it’s flirting is because you’re basically giving off mixed signals.

I’ve been starting experimenting with all this…mostly mixed signal verbal flirting so far. I’ve been getting myself into a little bit of trouble too, lol, like here’s an example from today:

Me: I’m attracted to you but youre not my type
Girl: why do you say I’m not your type?
Me: …uhhhhh

I honestly forget what I said, but it was not that great and ruined my attainability. Shoulda said something like “Well I’m not sure if we are gonna have chemistry but I think we should keep talking and find out”

Should have this skill sharpened up nicely by the time I’m finished talking to the next 250 girls. I’m really excited for an opportunity to go up to a girl who’s giving me AIs, tell her, “I want to go to bed with you.” Then give her a skeptical look and walk away.

New Technique - Sticky Eyes

I read about this technique called “Sticky Eyes” on reddit and immediately incorporated it into my game. I gotta field test it some more before I understand the full effects of it…right now though, it’s got my eye contact seeming a lot more seductive. Here’s how the guy described it on reddit:

When you must break eye contact, try to do so as slowly as possible. You look away, but it takes 2-3 seconds to not be eye-to-eye anymore. You start turning your head first, leting your eyes linger and then slowly moving them away. This will melt girls. It makes them feel incredibly desired and I’ve had girls comment that this was the reason they fucked me. It also serves to build tension without risking creepy as much, because you aren’t just staring at bitches like an axe murderer sizing up their neck. The writer I heard it from referred to it as having honey connecting your eyes, so it makes them move slowly apart.

Push & Pull on a Random Tinder Broad

I met this girl on Tinder..established myself as the one in charge, found out her sexual preferences, and did some serious deep diving with her. Throughout this I’ve asked her to hang out twice. Both times were after SHE turned the conversation sexual. But she keeps ignoring it. Whatever, I’m not gonna ask her again. For now at least. Sometimes it’s just a matter of building more rapport.

After the deep diving, she was hooked as heck but she mentioned she was on her period. That just annoyed me. I ignored her for a day. Then she messages me:

Tinder Broad: done with me already?

AHAHHAHAHA. I was debating what to say. Should I pull out a chase frame here? What is my attainability like? I put myself in her shoes. She’s probably thinking… "me and this guy just connected….why is he ignoring me? does he still like me? was it something i said?” In other words she might be encountering a bunch of uncertainty.

My ignoring of her was a push causing uncertainty, so I could do a pull that would cause her to be more certain of me…So I was thinking about saying:

fog: we’re just getting started :)


fog: I’m just getting started with you :)

I ended up going with the former option. Because I liked the “we” aspect of it and felt it was attainable. “I’m just getting started with you” was good too, but it was more about establishing me as the leader (which I feel I’ve already done) and wasn’t that warm sounding.

Re: songbird fog talks about women

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:54 pm
by fog
Rachel is Baaack

Rach had been liking every single facebook status I posted...

I also got her on snap. I knew she’d be watching my stories so I posted some shit that I KNEW would provide value to her. And well then she texted me:

Rach: hi
Rach: r u on drugs
fog: *laughing emoticon*
Rach: haha no seriously *laughing emoticon*
fog: nope *thinking emoticon*
Rach: ur funny
Rach: i am quite entertained by those snaps
fog: i am glad you like my sober shenanigans rachel
Rach: i do fog
Rach: i enjoy them very much

Notice how she's mirroring me. interesting. I’m not really sure if I should ask her to hang out or not…I saw one of hectors texting videos where he said something like “the previous situation doesn’t matter, all that matters is now.” he also said "don't fuck around over texting." I was acting chasey before, so I think it's important to just be cool for now. I will have a good sleep on it. I believe my next move would be to casually ask her what she's up to this week. Flirting more is a bad idea - that would constitute fucking around, and that's what got me in trouble before.

Congratulations! Here is Your Ticket to the Boyfriend Zone!

I am renaming Random Tinder Broad to Roller. After her comment “Done with me already?”, we chatted on the phone. It went on a little too long for my liking, it lasted about 30 minutes. However I don’t mind….it was basically her just chatting my ear off and qualifying herself to me.

We didn’t talk for two days afterwards. Then, tonight I get a message from her:

Roller: I was expecting a message or two by now

Wow! So straightforward. It is clear to me I am in the boyfriend zone and that she wants me to give her some comfort. What I am going to do is tell her I think we should have another phone call. During that phone call my goal is to build some rapport and ask her to hang out. No fuckboy shit. It’s so easy!!!

I Am Going Below The Speed Limit

Hung out with two girls this weekend. One was from daygame (she came straight to my house), one was a girl I had already known before (i went to her house). I made moves on both of them, but they weren’t well received. In fact, they got really grumpy afterwards. I won’t get into details - I take it as a sign they were in auto rejection because I moved too slow (20-45 minutes), and was making the move after they got into auto rejection. I’m embarrassed to admit my uncalibration, but I’m not really disappointed as I’m preeeettttyyyy sure I’m operating from partial abundance. I’m not needy at all and know there’s more girls around the corner. ANYWAYS, the moral of the story here? From now on, whenever a girl is in a room with me, she gets kissed in 10 minutes or less. The ever skillful Hue mentioned in his journal that it should be 5 minutes. Something like that. But yeah. 10 minutes from now on. I’ll try that out.