FR Crazy waitress

[gameboy]

Walking along the beach, I spotted a curly-haired girl sitting by herself from afar. I immediately knew that she was open to be approached.

PRE-OPEN

I adjusted my course so as to casually walk by in front of her, at a distance of about 10 feet. When I was just in front, I turned around. I saw that she was actually smiling at me! So I got closer. It took me second to realize that this was a waitress at a cafe I frequent sometimes.

MY PREVIOUS IMPRESSION OF THIS GIRL

Last summer I used to frequent a café in the city center. All the staff were friendly, including this girl, but she immediately struck me as a very intense personality. I found her neither attractive nor unattrative, but she did give off some crazy vibes to me just from seeing her interacting with the other staff.

OPENER

Since she already knew me, no opener was really needed. I said "hello", and she immediately told me that she had quit her job and was free now. I took this as an invitation and sat next to her. She was very talkative, and basically told me her whole life story. However there were some red flags that made me think twice about seducing this girl.

HER ETHNICITY

I cold-read her as being Argentinian, but turns out she's actually from Venezuela. She has dark brown skin, and beautiful black eyes. However unlike most Latinas, she dresses in a rather un-sexy way. The Latinas I know often like to show off their bodies with tight clothing and such, but not this girl. She's more a "pullover and baggy jeans" type.

WE TALK FOR AN HOUR, SHE'S REALLY NICE BUT I SEE RED FLAGS

First thing she tells me is that she know which people have good intentions and which have bad intentions. Since she was happy to talk to me, I suppose that means I have good intentions (which of course I do!)

She was wearing big headphones when I approached, but took them off as soon as she saw me coming over. She told me that she wears the headphone because she was talking to herself, letting out emotions of anger. And she wears headphones so people don't think she is crazy (her words more or less).

We chatted for about an hour in total. She loved talking to me, and I enjoyed listening. While she talked I tried to remember some of the pickup tech I'm learning here, but found it very hard to remember anything. I did the handclasp that Chase recommends in his awesome recent article, and I think she drew back her hand first. This is the first time I tried this so I don't have reference points yet though.

I did remembered the importance of touch, and touched her on the shoulder first. I also tried to tease her and when she said "some people are dangerous" I said to her "but you are dangerous too!" and she agreed... So I guess the intended tease didn't work lol.

She told me she has a daughter in Venezuela, which she hasn't seen in 6 years. She is separated from the father but sends him money as she is earning much more money than people in her country can ever hope to make.

According to her, people in Venzuela make like $20 a month (or a week?). A chicken costs $15 so go figure. But they somehow get by. She agrees when I say that people in her country have less money but are probably still happier than people here.

SHE TELLS ME ABOUT A CHILDHOOD TRAUMA

I'm not sure if I should share this here as I feel it would be a trust violation. Let's just sum it up that she seems to have been traumatized by an abusive father. Apparently he threatened her mother while she was present, several times.

When she told me that, I felt very sad for her and started to hug her. She enjoyed it at first, but when I tried to escalate touch a bit she told me to stop touching her. She explained she doesn't like being touched below the waistline because she's had bad experiences. I don't remember escalating that much, I don't think I touched her below the waist but whatever. I told her that's okay, and respected her boundary.

I did try to touch her in a sensual way on the neck though, because we'd been talking for quite a while by now and I felt like it was time to escalate. (We also talked about her country, what she likes there, and I told her a bit about myself and that I would love to visit her country "with her"). However while she first said touching her neck was okay, she changed her opinion after a second and didn't want to be touched there either. So I stopped obviously. I only enjoy touching girls when they enjoy it too.

SAYING GOODBYE

The sun was setting and it was getting cold on the beach. I saw her shivering, and asked her "Are you cold?" She said "Yes, and I'm going to leave". I said "Ok me too." I waited for her to pack up her stuff, then stood up at the same time as her. Then I asked her which way she was going, she said "This way" so I told her I'm going the other way. I didn't see a point in continuing the interaction as there were too many red flags, and she didnt' seem to enjoy being touched.

I hugged her goodbye with a big smile, and wished her well. I probably won't see her again unless I run into her by accident before she leaves for her country.

TAKEAWAYS

- I stayed in set until the end today, which was a sticking point of mine (I usually eject far too early)
- I completely forgot about qualifying, let alone reality pacing
- She was leading the interaction pretty much as she talked so much
- I didn't see a way of moving the girl (she seems to be an independent, dominant type anyway, so not sure if it would have worked)
- I found her story very fascinating, and enjoyed the interaction a lot even if I didn't get a "result"
- I would have kissed her if she'd been down, and maybe even taken her to bed. But in retrospect she seems to be a bit asexual (her mentioning "bad experiences", and her clothing style)
- Could have probably tried to number close her, but I kind of forgot. It seemed to be a bit pointless anyway as she is leaving the country. But would have been great practice as I haven't done a #close yet.
- I had a great time, being able to talk to random girls is awesome My old self from just a month ago probably wouldn't even have approached her

 

[StrayDog]

Yeah, you're gonna meet all sorts of girls out there when you do pickup, and you're gonna have to make snap judgments about whether she's the type of girl you want to take to bed in the first place.

Is a girl with tons of previous trauma worth it or not? Well that really depends on what you are willing to show up for. That said, all that trauma dumping is a major red flag for sure. Its one thing to have a bunch of trauma, as many of us humans do, its another thing all together venting about it to a relative stranger.

So yeah probably a good call not pushing to hard with this one.

That said, you can still gleam tons of reference points from this sort of interaction regardless.

For one, women you talk to aren't always going to be in the best mood or headspace when you talk to them. But that doesn't mean they are not open to you, or even being seduced. The first step however would have been cracking her out of her brooding sort of mood, getting her to invest in a more uplifted tone to your interaction

Just letting her lead the convo straight away into her life is a no no. Then she just goes into vent mode.

What you have to do is play a balancing act where everytime she goes off into that heavy territory you listen just enough to where you are not totally disengaged, but you kind of withdraw your attention. Look around your surroundings more. Break rapport. Respond with understanding, but keep it sort and don't really engage on a deeper level. Then reframe the convo, cut the thread and lead things to lighter fair.

"yeah sounds frustrating. (neutral, short comment that shows understanding) Isn't it amazing how difficult life can be but still so beautiful (reframe the convo) Hey check out this seagull trying to catch that squirell. Haha amazing (change the subject to something more upbeat)"

Every time she invests/engages in something more fun and lighthearted you give her more attention, more pressence. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

Essentially what you are doing is

A: Testing for compliance

B: Screening to make sure she is worth seducing/will play along.

Once her mood turns a corner and she has invested you can always go into a deep dive about her life again, but you have to make sure to avoid dicey subjects and bring out the brighter side of her.

If she just insists on being a downer and isn't really investing in positive ways, cut your losses and leave the set. But you can actually crack a lot of girls in a funk out of their mood, with a bit of patience and leading the interaction smoothly. Getting them to invest in a fun playful connection, or risk losing that cute guy they are hitting it off with.

There will be this moment where you notice her change gears. Where you can feel her thinking "fuck it, this is way better than sulking" That's when you build some momentum and then move things.

I actually had a same day lay not too long ago with a girl who was in a funk when we met, but by the time I pulled her, she was beaming. You wouldn't have even thought she was ever feeling all depressed earlier. But it took a good amount of time, patience, and consistent reframing.

It can take a bit of patience and often times it means you have to pace the interaction a bit slower.

You also don't want to just jump on her the moment she peps up. Let the momentum build.

The reason this gal didn't respond to your touch is because there was no flirtatious precedent set, and there was no real reason for you to touch her.

You basically volunteered yourself to be a listening ear, and she capitalized on that frame.

Her being an "independent dominant type" had nothing to do with not being able to move her. Having little buy in into a seductive frame work, and in turn no momentum is what made it so moving her was out of the picture.

You feeling like it "was time to escalate" was based on what exactly? The fact you had been talking for a while? Or maybe I am missing something. What ever the case, escalate based on what has preceded the moment, and where the momentum is headed. It has to make sense for where the seduction is at. Just because you have been interacting for a while doesn't mean she has bought in to it. In this case, the interaction, though long, lacked proper precedence for an escalation at that moment. That is why she turned it down almost immediately.

When you hugged her because she was sad, you were re enforcing the frame of you being the comforting nice guy she can tell all her trouble to. That is why when you escalated the touch then she rejected. It was incongruent with what the precedent had been. Its like "why are you touching me, your only here to comfort me"

Now, maybe she was playing along a little bit, but that was probably because she liked the attention a little and she was willing to accept a level of flirtatiousness for the validation and what not. So long as it was not a threat to the frame that had been established.

I'm reminded of this article chase just wrote.

Tactics Tuesdays: Don't Give Her What She Wants

Girls ask for things they think they want from you. If you give them these though the attraction dies out. Why? Because what girls want ≠ what they need! The title for this one is a bit deceptive. Because you ARE going to give her what she actually wants… but you aren’t going to give her what...

www.girlschase.com

You gave her what she wanted. Some guy to validate her with attention, and listen to all her woes. Instead of giving her what she needed. A guy challenged her to step beyond everything that was going on in her head, live closer to the moment ,and jump into its bountiful pleasure.

at least that is my read of it.

 

[StrayDog]

Also dude, congrats on sticking in the set. Notice how many more reference points you just got from it

 

[gameboy]

I tried to change the topic of conversation to more positive ones all the time, but to no avail. I asked her about her country, told her we should travel there together, even once said to her directly "You gotta focus on the positive things. Look how beautiful the sea is today" and she was like "yeah but it's heavy" (as in lots of waves) so I said "I love the waves! In Venezuela you got lots of waves?" and things like that. However she always went back to talking about her problems... She really seemed like she just needed someone to vent to. Not really a person I would want to be with long-term, even though I enjoyed meeting her.

My decision to escalate was purely instinctual at that point. My gaming experience is based mostly on bars and night clubs, where after a certain time has passed talking to a girl it is time to pull her in for a kiss and escalate from there. I am wondering if this tactic can work in day game at all? Probably better to move her and pull her to a seduction location. Even though we were relatively alone on the beach (at least I wasn't aware of any people nearby.)

 

[StrayDog]

I tried to change the topic of conversation to more positive ones all the time, but to no avail. I asked her about her country, told her we should travel there together

You are qualifying her here on what grounds? She is being sulky and moody and unresponsive to your more positive seduction conducive frames, and you reward her by saying you two should travel together. You are again solidifying the frame that she can just be blah about this moment and she won't lose you.

, even once said to her directly "You gotta focus on the positive things. Look how beautiful the sea is today" and she was like "yeah but it's heavy" (as in lots of waves) so I said "I love the waves! In Venezuela you got lots of waves?" and things like that.

This is the wrong way to go about this. You don't want to be directly telling her she has "got to be positive" You are directly confronting her negative frame work. This will

A: Associate you with her negative feelings. Because now you are talking directly about them. Trying to counsel her on them. Change them. Now the frame is set that that is dynamic between you two.

B: Make her feel misunderstood. Like you pressing her for something she can't give. Like you are trying to get something out of her. "Come on, be positive"

The tactic you want is to be disinterested in her bad mood. Be lightly understanding, but mostly disengaged. She doesn't really get much out of you. While at the same time amplifying more positive parts of the convo. Giving her attention, qualifying her when she is being positive or focusing on other threads of conversation. Even if it's just briefly at first.

However she always went back to talking about her problems... She really seemed like she just needed someone to vent to.

Yeah, some people will be like that. Its bad news. Not worth your time at all. That said, some girls will only be like that if you let them. If the interaction has a precedent of it. If you solidify the frame that that is what you are doing.

Now some times something is really bugging the girl and it needs to be addressed, but that is later in the seduction, once she has really bought into the frame work and invested in it, and moved with you, and there is a ton of momentum.

In this case though you kind of just solidified the street stranger therapy frame.

I am sure some of the other guys, have some tactics for breaking girls out of funks as well. There is probably a number of ways.

Some tactful teases can help as well. Not about her mood. Just some other playful observations about her. Get her laughing about herself. Not taking herself so seriously.

My decision to escalate was purely instinctual at that point. My gaming experience is based mostly on bars and night clubs, where after a certain time has passed talking to a girl it is time to pull her in for a kiss and escalate from there.

Look back on those night game pulls. Was it about the amount of time in, or how much she had become invested over that period of time?

Look for levels of investment as a metric, as opposed to time in. I have moved women during day game within minutes of meeting them. Though sometimes it has taken about 20 minutes or so. I have pulled women within 20 minutes or so, though sometimes it has taken an hour and a half.

Investment, compliance, momentum.

I am wondering if this tactic can work in day game at all? Probably better to move her and pull her to a seduction location. Even though we were relatively alone on the beach (at least I wasn't aware of any people nearby.)

Maybe if the vibe is just absolute chemistry. Maybe. But even then I personally would use that energy and momentum to move thing, rather than try for lower hanging fruit.

Too many times have I pulled a girl having not kissed her. And too many times have I kissed a girl and not pulled her.

Day game definitely has a different frame/social context than night game (drunk night game at that). It takes a certain type of gal to meet a guy on the street, middle of the day, make out with him, then go back to his place and fuck.

Much better to capitalize on the tension to move her, and give her plausible deniability. So her emotions don't hit too low of a ceiling and the whole thing bottoms out

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[gameboy]

To be honest I'm quite happy that nothing happened with this girl. I've spent years in a difficult relationship and have learnt my lesson. Zero tolerance for crazy girls.

That said, it was fun talking to her and I admit I used the opportunity to push my (or her) boundaries a little. In retrospect, it's a good thing that she wouldn't have it.

 

[StrayDog]

To be honest I'm quite happy that nothing happened with this girl. I've spent years in a difficult relationship and have learnt my lesson. Zero tolerance for crazy girls.

That said, it was fun talking to her and I admit I used the opportunity to push my (or her) boundaries a little. In retrospect, it's a good thing that she wouldn't have it.

I feel you. It does sound like she was rather troubled. Important to trust your gut on these things.

I am just going to play devil's advocate here though, and let's just say she was actually a real cool gal but the way you managed the interaction brought out a less desirable side of her. And you never really created the opportunity to see another side.

Again, you are probably right in your initial assessment but it is important to consider other possibilities. For the sake of progress.

I say this because I have noticed a trend in some of your journal posts and it is here too. It is the "eh, I didn't really want her any way" effect. While there is often some truth to the sentiment, it can also be a way of skirting around the fact that you didn't make it work.

This can get in the way of progress. It is important to consider what we could have done, what we weren't seeing about her, what we failed to bring out of her. What would it have taken to have actually gotten her. Its easy to say you didn't want her, when we never really had her. Its another thing to have her, and decide we don't want her.


Like what if you had just been able to move her before you decided she wasn't a good catch, and then politely bowed out of the interaction after walking together a few minutes. Or even gotten to a kiss close but decided not to go any further.

Notice your framing here when you wrote you were glad that SHE wouldn't have it. SHE was the one who didn't let things go there.

You mentioned she was not LTR material. Okay, maybe. But what if you two could have had a fun fling. In general, sizing women up for LTR material before you even create an opportunity with them is putting the cart before the horse a bit.

Then again, sometimes we really do know right off the bat, and it's important to trust that.

Just be careful of backward rationalizing when things don't go as you hoped. Maybe it was you, not her. Maybe she was a catch and you never had the opportunity to find out.

Just offering some perspective to reflect on. I don't necessarily have the answers.

And any way, once we have mined a failed interaction for as much material as possible. Always best to move on.

 

[gameboy]

Yes you are completely right about that, I am definitely way too picky. I am afraid of becoming too attached to a girl that isn't Ideal for me, which is what happened with my last (and so far longest) LTR.

I also want to avoid the girl becoming attached, and then hurting her.

 

[fog]

when girls start to dump I listen with interest. it won't last forever and when you respond with empathy, she will air out her worries...while you show comfort and care for her

then the vibe will become light and weightless...as she starts to feel better. which is a good time to escalate. any form of sexual escalation before this is not appropriate.

venezuelans are the easiest latinas to seduce up there with colombians. reading your words, you could have had it in the bag if she kept talking while you escalated at the right times

 

[gameboy]

when girls start to dump I listen with interest. it won't last forever and when you respond with empathy, she will air out her worries...while you show comfort and care for her

then the vibe will become light and weightless...as she starts to feel better. which is a good time to escalate. any form of sexual escalation before this is not appropriate.

venezuelans are the easiest latinas to seduce up there with colombians. reading your words, you could have had it in the bag if she kept talking while you escalated at the right times

Yeah I tried to comfort her, more or less instinctually. But when I tried escalating I kind of hit a brick wall. She said "Don't touch me any more, I've had bad experiences" so I stopped.

 

[gameboy]

I did reinitiate though and try touching her neck instead. But maybe it was too soon. Should have stopped, talk about something else, then reinitiate when the vibe is more positive again.